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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well.
Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it’s started to “die” after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low battery” indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. |
#3
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 15:09, Scott wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. We've had 2 of those pieces of durge. Absolute crap after the first 12 to 18 months. Fortunately bought the first one from Cost-Co but the battery died within the year so we took it back to for a refund and bought a new one to replace it. Same thing a year later, blue light battery fault. Dyson in their infinite wisdom have made the batteries a non-user serviceable component (soldered in situ apparently). The Dyson rep in PC World told us it was done to prevent "old ladies" from worrying about replacing or "removing to recharge" battery packs but one could pay ÂŁ80 and an engineer would come along and replace the battery but you couldn't buy it to do yourself. I suggested that it was an appalling design and any engineer with half a brain would make the battery pack replaceable at a fair price which might facilitate users to even purchase a 2nd battery to re-charge. Dyson Rep. insisted it was company policy to have the battery as non-removeable and would I be interested in the Dyson V10 cordless? To which I replied "No, it's alright thanks I wouldn't touch Dyson cordless ever again, I've taken the 2nd unit back to CostCo and replaced it with an AirRam with removable battery pack" |
#4
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Odd Dyson fault
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 23/12/2019 15:09, Scott wrote: On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. We've had 2 of those pieces of durge. Absolute crap after the first 12 to 18 months. Fortunately bought the first one from Cost-Co but the battery died within the year so we took it back to for a refund and bought a new one to replace it. Same thing a year later, blue light battery fault. Dyson in their infinite wisdom have made the batteries a non-user serviceable component (soldered in situ apparently). Um, not my one. Just how long ago are we talking about? Plenty of replacement batteries available on the Dyson website. The Dyson rep in PC World told us it was done to prevent "old ladies" from worrying about replacing or "removing to recharge" battery packs but one could pay ÂŁ80 and an engineer would come along and replace the battery but you couldn't buy it to do yourself. I suggested that it was an appalling design and any engineer with half a brain would make the battery pack replaceable at a fair price which might facilitate users to even purchase a 2nd battery to re-charge. Dyson Rep. insisted it was company policy to have the battery as non-removeable and would I be interested in the Dyson V10 cordless? To which I replied "No, it's alright thanks I wouldn't touch Dyson cordless ever again, I've taken the 2nd unit back to CostCo and replaced it with an AirRam with removable battery pack" https://www.dyson.co.uk/search-resul...y&from=support Sounds like the €śrep€ť was very ill informed and was spouting ********. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 18:05, Tim+ wrote:
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: On 23/12/2019 15:09, Scott wrote: On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. We've had 2 of those pieces of durge. Absolute crap after the first 12 to 18 months. Fortunately bought the first one from Cost-Co but the battery died within the year so we took it back to for a refund and bought a new one to replace it. Same thing a year later, blue light battery fault. Dyson in their infinite wisdom have made the batteries a non-user serviceable component (soldered in situ apparently). Um, not my one. Just how long ago are we talking about? Plenty of replacement batteries available on the Dyson website. And on ebay. -- Michael Chare |
#6
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Odd Dyson fault
Scott wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but itÂ’s started to “die” after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low battery” indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. There will be an obstruction somewhere if its pulsing regularly on and off. Check the rubber flap at the base of the main €śtool socket€ť. Its designed to stop dirt falling out of the canister when you hang it up but is prone to blockages. If its not that, check your filters. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott
wrote: Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle, that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since borrowed back. ;-) I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing as I mention above as it ran ok without it. However, after washing and drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and now it's running fine again. Cheers, T i m |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 20:23:37 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa 2\)"
wrote: So you need a hair extraction tool! I don't, mine went years ago. ;-) Daughter is pretty good at getting hair off the rollers but hadn't really looked past the external bits and the filter. Cheers, T i m |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:36:46 +0000, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott wrote: Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle, that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since borrowed back. ;-) Exactly that. I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing as I mention above as it ran ok without it. Which is the mail filter? Is it the one at the top or the one at the back? However, after washing and drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and now it's running fine again. How do you take the canister off? Thanks Cheers, T i m |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:08:08 +0000, Scott
wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:36:46 +0000, T i m wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott wrote: Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle, that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since borrowed back. ;-) Exactly that. I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing as I mention above as it ran ok without it. Which is the mail filter? MaiN. Is it the one at the top or the one at the back? Top, but we are talking of a V8 Animal (I think, it's not here) and AFAIK, it's only got one filter. However, after washing and drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and now it's running fine again. How do you take the canister off? On ours it's just a slight twist whilst actioning the dump flap lever but yours might be different. Cheers, T i m |
#12
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 17:45:32 +0000, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:08:08 +0000, Scott wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:36:46 +0000, T i m wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 15:09:26 +0000, Scott wrote: Mine keeps stopping and starting. I assumed it was an obstruction but I cannot see any. I cleaned the filter recently. It only seems to happen on the high power setting. Any ideas. If you mean stopping and starting on a 1 second or so duty cycle, that's what the one (V8 Animal) our daughter bought us and has since borrowed back. ;-) Exactly that. I showed her how to wash clean the main filter when it started doing as I mention above as it ran ok without it. Which is the mail filter? MaiN. Ooops Is it the one at the top or the one at the back? Top, but we are talking of a V8 Animal (I think, it's not here) and AFAIK, it's only got one filter. Mine is an ordinary V8 but it has two filters - one that drops in from the top and one that twists in at the back. I'll start with the former. . However, after washing and drying the filter she said it was still doing the same so when up there last I took the canister off, and there was quite a bit of hair between the main intake and the canister ports. Cleared them out and now it's running fine again. How do you take the canister off? On ours it's just a slight twist whilst actioning the dump flap lever but yours might be different. Will experiment. |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim Pull out the long conical filter (purpley blue thing on the top) and give it a good wash and dry. Our bungs up about once a year and gives similar symptoms. |
#14
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
Andy Bennet wrote:
On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim Pull out the long conical filter (purpley blue thing on the top) and give it a good wash and dry. Our bungs up about once a year and gives similar symptoms. Its not that. Im very familiar with the regular on/off pulsing that a blockage causes. Mine doesnt pulse. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I had something similar in a well used one about three years old, took it to be a dead battery. Mine is one of the ones where the battery is easily removed. I didn't think the price was too silly. |
#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
Sounds like a fault in the charger, or maybe the battery is on the way out
and confusing the charging system, ie going down when its fully charged with no load and the charger is not set to notice until its removed and replaced again. If you know how long it takes to fully charge, try that long before you need it removing it and then replacing it on the charger. It then is pretty certain the battery is self discharging if it works. Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Tim+" wrote in message ... We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it's started to "die" after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue "low battery" indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#17
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 14:25, Tim+ wrote:
We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. Yes. By coincidence I have exactly the same symptoms here - although it is not air filter related (see other posts) yours might be. I was about to buy a replacement battery since it is getting on a bit but I did a few experiments first and got surprising results. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? I have access to multiple chargers. Mine outputs 26.00v under load and the battery refuses to charge with more than a token 15s worth of use. The other unit outputs 26.20v and the thing works perfectly on that! This is incredibly unexpected behaviour. I can also test them on different raw mains and the Dyson supply is a carefully regulated 26.xx v with input voltage from 230vac to 245vac. (which happen to be the local mains at two different locations) Can you measure the output voltage of your charger accurately? Or try your unit with another charger with the same rating... I intend to recharge mine from a bench PSU set to the right voltage to establish that the thing really is so sensitive to voltage. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#18
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
Chris Hogg wrote:
On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it’s started to “die” after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low battery” indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim Similar. I contacted Dyson about it and they suggested I take out the battery and give the terminals a good clean, both those on the battery itself and up inside the case. Much to my surprise, it improved things significantly, but it's beginning to play up again now, so maybe time for another clean... Thanks. That sounds plausible. Ill give it a go. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#19
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
Hmm, still think ome cell in the stack is self discharging.
Brian -- ----- -- This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please Note this Signature is meaningless.! "Chris Hogg" wrote in message ... On 23 Dec 2019 14:25:43 GMT, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it's started to "die" after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue "low battery" indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim Similar. I contacted Dyson about it and they suggested I take out the battery and give the terminals a good clean, both those on the battery itself and up inside the case. Much to my surprise, it improved things significantly, but it's beginning to play up again now, so maybe time for another clean... -- Chris |
#20
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. |
#21
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it€„˘s started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists know how to make "safe" chargers. |
#22
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 17:55, newshound wrote:
Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. They are. Massively more sophisticated. |
#23
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 18:59, mm0fmf wrote:
On 23/12/2019 17:55, newshound wrote: Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. They are. Massively more sophisticated. Nevertheless my home laptop's battery is dead after only about 4 years, and we've had a couple of batteries swell up and die at work. Andy |
#24
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:25:11 GMT, Pamela
wrote: On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote: On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it€„˘s started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists know how to make "safe" chargers. The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells. Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not charge above 80% or so. I thought the software took care of that by its definition of 100%. A Dyson doesn't offer the same degree of control but leaving it on charge the whole time continually keeps topping up in the most stressful way. |
#25
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Odd Dyson fault
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:09:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote: On 09:57 24 Dec 2019, Scott wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:25:11 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote: On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it€„˘s started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists know how to make "safe" chargers. The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells. Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not charge above 80% or so. I thought the software took care of that by its definition of 100%. I'm no expert but as I understand it, lithium ion is so prone to overheating and catching fire that there's safety protection against dangerous overcharge in both cell and charger. However overcharging stress occurs long before dangerous overcharge, especially if temperature rises, and affects cell life more than safety. I'm no expert either but I thought the purpose of the battery management was not optimise the battery, not just to prevent dangerous overcharging. There are mixed messages on how adverse this is. There's better agreement that low discharge is even worse. Again, no expert but I thought battery life was defined by the number of charge/discharge cycles and therefore if you kept topping up, the battery would wear out more quickly. |
#26
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Odd Dyson fault
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:02:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote: On 15:53 24 Dec 2019, Scott wrote: On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 15:09:37 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 09:57 24 Dec 2019, Scott wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:25:11 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote: On 23/12/2019 17:24, Scott wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it€„˘s started to €œdie€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €œlow battery€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. Mine hangs on its charger. I kind of assume that Dyson's scientists know how to make "safe" chargers. The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells. Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not charge above 80% or so. I thought the software took care of that by its definition of 100%. I'm no expert but as I understand it, lithium ion is so prone to overheating and catching fire that there's safety protection against dangerous overcharge in both cell and charger. However overcharging stress occurs long before dangerous overcharge, especially if temperature rises, and affects cell life more than safety. I'm no expert either but I thought the purpose of the battery management was not optimise the battery, not just to prevent dangerous overcharging. I think that's the very point he a lithium ion battery left on charge the whole time lost most of its capacity prematurely. Unfortunate typo. I meant to say that the purpose of the battery management was *TO* optimise the battery, not just to prevent dangerous overcharging. Are you sure it is left 'on charge'? I thought it was cut off by the management software once it reached its optimum level.. There are mixed messages on how adverse this is. There's better agreement that low discharge is even worse. Again, no expert but I thought battery life was defined by the number of charge/discharge cycles and therefore if you kept topping up, the battery would wear out more quickly. Entirely depends on the depth of discharge and what state of charge. I believe satellite batteries are optimised for longevity by avoiding extreme charge and discharge to such a degree that they are designed to work only within a narrow band of charge. I thought it depended on both factors. |
#27
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Odd Dyson fault
On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 16:02:37 GMT, Pamela
wrote: snip I think that's the very point he a lithium ion battery left on charge the whole time lost most of its capacity prematurely. I think you would have to define 'Left on charge'? From a user POV it might be considered 'on charge' because it's plugged into the mains and the charging light is on but it might not actually *be* charging the battery at that point. In the old days, basic car chargers would come with an ammeter so you could determine, from how much current it was supplying, how charged the battery was. 'These days', few would understand what that meant (and partly why they don't fit engine temperature gauges to some cars nowdays). So, any reasonable battery charger these days is likely to either show a 'Charged' LED or the led change from flashing (charging) to solid (charged) and the charging current cut off. It may well continue to monitor the battery voltage and *if* it should drop back below a certain threshold, it may provide a top-up charge. However, the self discharge rate of these modern cells is quite low and so it wouldn't be doing so very often or for very long (and we don't know what charge level that actually is). My most sophisticated / computerised muti chemistry and voltage charger allows you to set all these values and give full BMS of up to 10 cells in series. There are mixed messages on how adverse this is. There's better agreement that low discharge is even worse. Again, no expert but I thought battery life was defined by the number of charge/discharge cycles and therefore if you kept topping up, the battery would wear out more quickly. Entirely depends on the depth of discharge and what state of charge. I believe satellite batteries are optimised for longevity by avoiding extreme charge and discharge to such a degree that they are designed to work only within a narrow band of charge. Not just satellite batteries but any scenario where the primary goal is to prolong battery life. In most systems however, where the battery capacity is limited by size, weight or cost, lifespan has to be a compromise between useable capacity and said lifespan. eg, Some people push their batteries to the (safe) extremes because the cost of that is considered acceptable. Radio modellers are one such example. When I was a sponsored RC electric car racer the maximum speed and duration of the car was set by the ability of the battery to give 100% of it's charge of the duration of one race, because even if the batteries only lasted 25 cycles at that usage (instead of maybe 1000), that could still be one complete season (you typically ran multiple battery packs) and was just part of the 'cost'. Cheers, T i m |
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 22:25, Pamela wrote:
On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote: The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells. Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not charge above 80% or so. A Dyson doesn't offer the same degree of control but leaving it on charge the whole time continually keeps topping up in the most stressful way. Citation? I don't doubt that the wall-wart feeding the bracket is very basic, but doesn't the clever control stuff live inside the battery? |
#29
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Odd Dyson fault
On 12:00 24 Dec 2019, newshound wrote:
On 23/12/2019 22:25, Pamela wrote: On 17:55 23 Dec 2019, newshound wrote: The issue is not safety as lithium ions batteries and chargers are usually well protected but that the battery is stressed when it contains a full charge. I'm told it also physically swells. Those smartphone users trying to conserve lithium ion batteries will not charge above 80% or so. A Dyson doesn't offer the same degree of control but leaving it on charge the whole time continually keeps topping up in the most stressful way. Citation? I don't doubt that the wall-wart feeding the bracket is very basic, but doesn't the clever control stuff live inside the battery? Cites with breaks for clarity: Lithium-ion operates safely within the designated operating voltages; however, the battery becomes unstable if inadvertently charged to a higher than specified voltage. Prolonged charging above 4.30V on a Li-ion designed for 4.20V/cell will plate metallic lithium on the anode. The cathode material becomes an oxidizing agent, loses stability and produces carbon dioxide (CO2). https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries a Li-ion battery cycled within 75%-25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74% capacity after 14,000 cycles. If this battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge (green), the capacity would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles, and with a 100% charge with same DoD [depth of discharge] (black), the capacity would drop to 48%. For unknown reasons, real-life expectancy tends to be lower than in simulated modeling. Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of lithium-ion batteries. The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. Battery packs do not die suddenly, but the runtime gradually shortens as the capacity fades. ... Environmental conditions, not cycling alone, govern the longevity of lithium-ion batteries. The worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries |
#30
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Odd Dyson fault
Pamela quoted:
a Li-ion battery cycled within 75%-25% SoC (blue) would fade to 74% capacity after 14,000 cycles. If this battery were charged to 85% with same depth-of-discharge (green), the capacity would drop to 64% at 14,000 cycles, and with a 100% charge with same DoD [depth of discharge] (black), the capacity would drop to 48%. Assuming a charge cycle per day, I probably wouldn't care whether a battery had 74%, 64% or 48% capacity left after 14 years ... |
#31
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Odd Dyson fault
Scott wrote:
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but it’s started to “dieâ€? after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue “low batteryâ€? indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. Not all cordless vacuum cleaners are created equal. ;-). Your typical cheap €śDustbuster€ť type handheld do seem to die quickly if left on charge in my experience. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#32
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Odd Dyson fault
In article ,
Scott wrote: I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. My friend refuses to accept this and insists her laptop is plugged on all the time, even when using it. Maybe laptops are more sophisticated. She did the same with the cordless vacuum cleaner and the battery failed in quite a short period. Think it's going to depend on how good the 'charger' is. Had an Acer laptop which fried the battery even with modest use. So ran it without the replacement - and only fitted it when needed. Current HP is a few years old but battery still fine. And it's left on most of the day. -- *A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#33
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Odd Dyson fault
Pamela wrote:
On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. Maybe wrongly, I trust that with the amount Dyson charge, theyll have put reasonably decent battery charging control circuitry in it. Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
#34
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Odd Dyson fault
On 23/12/2019 18:05, Tim+ wrote:
Pamela wrote: On 14:25 23 Dec 2019, Tim+ wrote: We have a handheld rechargeable Dyson that mostly works very well. Recently it has started to seem like its battery is dying. It lives on its charger under the stairs all the time but its started to €śdie€ť after just 10-15 seconds of use and displays a flashing blue €ślow battery€ť indicator. The thing is, if I put it back on charge for just 5 seconds it comes back to life and I can get many minutes of use out off it before the battery really runs low. Anyone else come across this? Tim I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, although that doesn't really account for your symptoms. Maybe wrongly, I trust that with the amount Dyson charge, theyll have put reasonably decent battery charging control circuitry in it. Tim hahahahha -- Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat. |
#35
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela
wrote: snip I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, Whilst it does, it's a toss up between (and already short) run-time in use and battery life. Some laptops (and some (/most / all?) EV's, have the ability to limit the maximum charge to say 80% (of maximum capacity) to make the battery last longer, at the expense of a shorter run-time. The minimum charge cutoff is pretty common on most BMS's, including the cells themselves in some cases. Cheers, T i m |
#36
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Odd Dyson fault
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:29:40 GMT, Pamela
wrote: On 19:42 23 Dec 2019, T i m wrote: On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 16:49:00 GMT, Pamela wrote: snip I wouldn't leave a lithium ion battery on charge the whole time because a full charge stresses the battery and shortens its life, Whilst it does, it's a toss up between (and already short) run-time in use and battery life. Some laptops (and some (/most / all?) EV's, have the ability to limit the maximum charge to say 80% (of maximum capacity) to make the battery last longer, at the expense of a shorter run-time. The minimum charge cutoff is pretty common on most BMS's, including the cells themselves in some cases. As I understand it, manufacturers design the charging cutoff to allow the maximum charge in order to satisfy consumers who demand the longest runtime possible. Yes, except manufacturers of EV's and (some that I know of) laptops .... and who knows what else? My point here is that unless we know what's going on behind the scenes, we can only assume how the charging is managed. I'm currently working on a Samsung laptop for a friend and I noticed that has an option in the BIOS to limit the maximun charge to 80% to prolong the battery life. How many other laptops (or phones etc) may also give you the option or do it by default? I think Tesla will sell you a replacement EV battery at a much reduced cost if you are able to get the existing one up to a specific number of miles / years. To do this the owner would have to manage the battery carefully and that might include ensuring the max and min charge levels are not exceeded. Obviously they want owners to get the maximum lifespan out of their batteries as it looks good on their PR and is likely to reduce any warranty claims (compared when the battery is used 'hard'). Cheers, T i m |
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