Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the
hinged section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but
probably not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different
people each day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so ideally
needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to use. It will
also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and even
I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin fingers
and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to be caught
with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the hinged
section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but probably
not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different people each
day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.

Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door lock that
automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile phones show up ?

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

alan_m wrote:

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Its not usually the householder who needs to use it though so whilst good
legibility is nice, your relative will presumably normally be carrying
keys?



Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

Theyre not designed for elderly frail folk to use, theyre there for the
family/carers.

Whatever you get, dont to the usual social services thing of using the
year of birth as a combination. After entering €œ19€� that only leaves two
digits to guess and it doesnt take long to work through the likely year
range.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

alan_m posted

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small
and with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background
and even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires
thin fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box
has to be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

Agreed, and it is not very secure either. We had one on our village hall
front door, and somebody simply prised it open to get the key.

We replaced it with a Keysafe Consumer 500, which is more expensive
(£50-ish) but much stronger, and more digits..

https://keysafe.co.uk/c500-keysafe.html

It doesn't have the large conspicuous button labels that you specified,
but as someone else said it won't be your elderly relative using it.
She'll have her own key.


--
Evremonde

In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:
On 22 Nov 2019 04:33:18 GMT, Tim+ wrote:


Whatever you get, don’t to the usual social services thing of using the
year of birth as a combination. After entering “19” that only leaves two
digits to guess and it doesn’t take long to work through the likely year
range.

Tim

+1

And the sequence in which you push the buttons doesn't matter, as long
as they're all pushed, so 'randomising' your birthday or whatever
won't make it any more difficult.

these beasts have numbers on wheels, The order does matter. I agree that
some of the cheaper electronic locks don't worry about order, but many do.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

The issue with that can be if there is a fault, or a power outage you aare
stuffed.

I guess one of the charities might have some models they have tested, Age
UK, RNIB, Partially Sighted Societ etc.

Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the hinged
section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but
probably not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different
people each day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.

Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door lock that
automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile phones show up ?

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

The issue with that can be if there is a fault, or a power outage you aare
stuffed.

Nope. They have a battery backup and even
with the ones that don’t, all you have to do
is wait till the power returns or use the key.

I guess one of the charities might have some models they have tested, Age
UK, RNIB, Partially Sighted Societ etc.


"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"alan_m" wrote in message
...

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the
hinged section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but
probably not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different
people each day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.

Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door lock that
automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile phones show up ?

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 00:50:12 +0000, alan_m wrote:


Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

My only input here is to read reviews carefully. Some of the well known
ones (I forget now, it was 5 years ago) are easily forced or bypassed.

Ours worked well but it had small wheels...

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

..

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908






These have been around for years and are fairly horrid. Die cast
construction - fiddley. Some new thinking is needed.

On 22/11/2019 02:05, Rod Speed wrote:


Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door lock that
automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile phones show up ?

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

Technophobe owner of property who sometimes has trouble using a mobile
phone (assuming that is not left on a table on charge) and someone who
also forgets to take a key.


--
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On 22/11/2019 04:33, Tim+ wrote:

Whatever you get, dont to the usual social services thing of using the
year of birth as a combination. After entering €œ19€� that only leaves two
digits to guess and it doesnt take long to work through the likely year
range.

That advice has already been given by social services although viewing
some Youtube videos many of these locks can easily be defeated without
first knowing the combination.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 22/11/2019 00:50, alan_m wrote:

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

I have yet to see one that meets those requirements. Most are small and
fiddly trying not to attract too much attention to what they are.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the
hinged section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but
probably not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different
people each day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Why can't she continue to have her own key?
Only the carers need to be using the key safe.

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.

I went for this one when I was doing this stuff.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is OK and the legend never wears off the buttons but it is still a
bit fiddly although unobtrusive and looks more like an external mains
socket than a key safe. Open and closing both require the code.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 22/11/2019 00:50, alan_m wrote:

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the
hinged section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but
probably not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different
people each day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.

It might be simpler to fit a door lock that can be operated either by a
key or by a keypad, such as some of those shown he

https://www.thearchitectsguide.com/a...ess-door-locks

The one recommended as the top pick can have up to 30 different key
codes set. That would, for example, allow you to give different carers
their own code, which could be deleted if the carers change.


--
Colin Bignell

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 13:05:38 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door lock that
automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile phones show up ?

Obviously not for some reasons, senile pest.

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

Not necessarily, senile idiot!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 19:24:14 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Nope.

LOL

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 09:02:22 GMT, John wrote:


htps://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lock-5-key-combination-key-safe/77908


These have been around for years and are fairly horrid. Die cast
construction - fiddley. Some new thinking is needed.

And don't be taken in by the 10,000 combinations, technically correct
as it's 9,999 + 1 (0000) but it "looks" a lot larger... and of course
many of those combinations wouldn't be sensisible to use but that
applies to all combination locks.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 22/11/2019 08:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 00:50:12 +0000, alan_m wrote:


Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

My only input here is to read reviews carefully. Some of the well known
ones (I forget now, it was 5 years ago) are easily forced or bypassed.


As mentioned in another reply I've seen Youtube videos where many of
these locks can be defeated within around 10 seconds without resorting
to any skill and locks under various manufactures names have
identical/similar mechanisms.

Even one of the locks mentioned in one of the replies that has "Police
Accredited" status doesn't mean that the opening code mechanism is
secure - just it can resist forceful entry to the same standard as a
front door.

The more that I investigate the more that I find that some of these
boxes are no more secure than leaving the key under the front door mat.

Although some of the points below may not help with my elderly relative
some findings:-

When open the some have hinged door and no re-alignment is required to
close it. Some are two part so when open the front has to be removed.

Some are self locking and others require the code to be re-entered to
lock it. On some, the lock is reset when you release the spring loaded
opening lever so you have to re-enter the code to retract the locking
bar mechanism again in order to close the box.

Push button mechanisms can have fewer combinations as the buttons can be
pushed in any order. Some have only the numbers 0 to 9 while other have
a few additional keys. Behind the tough outer metal shell is a cheap
plastic mechanism with warnings that you can easily break the mechanism
using when setting the code with the lock in the wrong state. Many
Amazon 1 star reviews suggest that this has happened when people don't
fully read the manual first.

Some have decent weather protection cover which doubles up a partial
disguise of the unit while some others have no cover and yet more have
covers that fail within months according to user reviews. If you want
the unit to be more discrete avoid those with visible branding that
screams security "I'm a key safe". I've seen at least one where "Key
Safe" is written on the front in nice large white letters on a grey
background.

I painted my keysafe outer box to match other equipment boxes where I
have it installed. It's not obvious that the keysafe is not part of
something else.

All the 4 wheel combination types seem to be the same on all brands of
safe that use them. The difference with some is that they are not
recessed into the box and so may be easier to operate or see. However
these mechanisms don't appear to be any more secure than those on a
cheap padlock which again with a little Youtube knowledge (and no skill)
can be opened.



--
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Martin Brown wrote:

looks more like an external mains socket than a key safe.

Installing a key safe inside the shell of an IP6x mains socket might
make it look less obvious

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 08:05:40 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

And the sequence in which you push the buttons doesn't matter, as
long
as they're all pushed, so 'randomising' your birthday or whatever
won't make it any more difficult.

these beasts have numbers on wheels, The order does matter. I agree that
some of the cheaper electronic locks don't worry about order, but many
do.

Some push button mechanical door locks aren't bothered about order
either

Another, longer term, problem is wear or dirt (precense or abscence)
patterns. Four digits with the legend or button (top and sides where
it slides into the lock body) more worn or cleaner or dirtier than
the other buttons is a bit of a give away.

--
Cheers
Dave.

It might be simpler to fit a door lock that can be operated either by a
key or by a keypad, such as some of those shown he

https://www.thearchitectsguide.com/a...ess-door-locks

The one recommended as the top pick can have up to 30 different key
codes set. That would, for example, allow you to give different carers
their own code, which could be deleted if the carers change.


Having just had a quick look how would you easily retrofit these to a
composite DG door that has a Eurolock with the handle just above the
lock which controls the full length door locking bar?




--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 09:02:59 +0000, alan_m wrote:

Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door
lock
that automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile
phones
show up ?

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

Technophobe owner of property who sometimes has trouble using a mobile
phone (assuming that is not left on a table on charge) ...

B-)

But doesn't rule out an electronic keypad and lock.

... also forgets to take a key.

I guess removing any latch so that the door had to be physically
locked on exit (thus ensuring user had key) wouldn't work as they'd
also forget that door needs locking.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 08:05:40 +0000 (GMT), charles wrote:

And the sequence in which you push the buttons doesn't matter, as
long
as they're all pushed, so 'randomising' your birthday or whatever
won't make it any more difficult.

these beasts have numbers on wheels, The order does matter. I agree that
some of the cheaper electronic locks don't worry about order, but many
do.

Some push button mechanical door locks aren't bothered about order
either

All, as far as I know.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
says...

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Why doesn't your relative have their own key so that they
don't need to use the key safe?

That doesn't resolve the issue that the key safe itself is
crap but would surely make things much easier for your
relative?

--

Terry

On Friday, 22 November 2019 04:33:21 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
alan_m wrote:

Whatever you get, dont to the usual social services thing of using the
year of birth as a combination. After entering €œ19€� that only leaves two
digits to guess and it doesnt take long to work through the likely year
range.

Yes that is a good point I pointed a similar thing to the care home my mother was in when they tell all visitors that the code to the door is the year followed by the month so todays code would have been 1911 if anyone wants to it but at least they changed/updated it once a month ;-)




Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Friday, 22 November 2019 09:03:02 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 22/11/2019 02:05, Rod Speed wrote:


Have you considered the alternative of an electronic front door lock that
automatically unlocks when one of the authorised mobile phones show up ?

Much more expensive but much easier to use.

Technophobe owner of property who sometimes has trouble using a mobile
phone (assuming that is not left on a table on charge) and someone who
also forgets to take a key.

I guess we'll just have to wait for finger print access to such things, should be too long, suprised I haven't seen such a thing on dragons den.




--
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On Friday, 22 November 2019 09:12:35 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/11/2019 00:50, alan_m wrote:


I went for this one when I was doing this stuff.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is OK and the legend never wears off the buttons but it is still a
bit fiddly although unobtrusive and looks more like an external mains
socket than a key safe. Open and closing both require the code.

I wonder why they get more expensive the more you buy.

1 for £21.65 but you can have 2 for £50 !
buy 20 and you pay an extra £66 quid.



--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 00:50:12 +0000, alan_m wrote:


Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

If their sight is OK in one eye, it will make no difference.

However, I haven't seen any secure ones with large wheels.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 11:24:40 +0000, Terry Casey wrote:

In article ,
says...

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Why doesn't your relative have their own key so that they don't need to
use the key safe?

Probably because they forget it.

And the carers still need access. They won't always be able to get the
care-ee to answer the door if our experience is anything to go by.



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Friday, 22 November 2019 11:53:57 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
I guess we'll just have to wait for finger print access to such things,
should be too long, suprised I haven't seen such a thing on dragons den.


I believe that fingerprint readers can be fooled with either a latex impression or a dead finger.

Owain

On 22/11/2019 12:07, wrote:
On Friday, 22 November 2019 11:53:57 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
I guess we'll just have to wait for finger print access to such things,
should be too long, suprised I haven't seen such a thing on dragons den.


I believe that fingerprint readers can be fooled with either a latex impression or a dead finger.

Owain


More likely in real life a dirty/greasy finger leaving a print on the
sensor.

--
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On Friday, 22 November 2019 12:07:25 UTC, wrote:
On Friday, 22 November 2019 11:53:57 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
I guess we'll just have to wait for finger print access to such things,
should be too long, suprised I haven't seen such a thing on dragons den..


I believe that fingerprint readers can be fooled with either a latex impression or a dead finger.

Some devices can the cheaper ones. But why are we seucuring the door from others is the important thing here, and it;s not like no one has ever gained access without the correct key to any place, it;s just what effort you need to take to eliminate such a thing and in most cases I doubt many people carry a dead finger around with them, or have access to the latex and a suitable finger.
Face recognicion is another option, I've heard in the USA they are looking into guns that can only be fired after face recogniction has been used.
I'm expecting some idiot to blow their own face off.


Owain

On 22/11/2019 12:05, Bob Eager wrote:
On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 00:50:12 +0000, alan_m wrote:


Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

If their sight is OK in one eye, it will make no difference.

My eyesight is OK and I sometimes have trouble with the numbers stamped
into the wheels. It even worse when using a torch - shiny chromed wheels
and shiny embossed numbers reflecting back the light.

From experience with this relative, some bad habits have also to be
addressed. Because there is a key safe at times no attempt is made to
take a door key out with them. As the numbers are difficult to see and
the dials are small often only the last digit is changed so its easier
to open. (Carers always randomise all 4 numbers on the dials).


--
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On 22/11/2019 13:28, whisky-dave wrote:

Some devices can the cheaper ones. But why are we seucuring the door from others is the important thing here, and it;s not like no one has ever gained access without the correct key to any place, it;s just what effort you need to take to eliminate such a thing and in most cases I doubt many people carry a dead finger around with them, or have access to the latex and a suitable finger.
Face recognicion is another option, I've heard in the USA they are looking into guns that can only be fired after face recogniction has been used.
I'm expecting some idiot to blow their own face off.


And possible after all the electronic security the interlock will be a
simple relay contact that can be bypassed with a bit of wire.

The law abiding will use the face recognition while the criminal
fraternity and US kids "borrowing" firearms will look on Youtube and
find the bypass.

Much like the popular home safes with an electronic keypad where the
lock relay can be defeated simply by placing a magnet in the top left
corner of the door to trigger the relay.

--
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alan_m wrote:

On 22/11/2019 12:07, wrote:
On Friday, 22 November 2019 11:53:57 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
I guess we'll just have to wait for finger print access to such things,
should be too long, suprised I haven't seen such a thing on dragons den.


I believe that fingerprint readers can be fooled with either a latex
impression or a dead finger.

Owain


More likely in real life a dirty/greasy finger leaving a print on the
sensor.

According to my Motorola phone handbook their fingerpring sensors use
the (IR?) pattern of subcutneous capillary blood vessels rather than the
actual fingerprints, which would be hard to duplicate without the
correct, living finger.



--

Roger Hayter

I'd be wary of any 4 digit code...

We had an aged relative who was admitted to hospital. When a little
better he wanted some stuff, but lost his keys on admission...
We assumed warden or neighbour would have spare key. They didn't...

I got the 4 digit code at second try. I wonder how many other dwellings
in the same complex had identical or very similar codes? So the last 4
digits of his land line would probably have been more secure.

On 22/11/2019 00:50, alan_m wrote:

Recommendation for key safe required. This is the type to be fitted
outside of a front door and holds the front door key.

This is for an elderly relative with failing sight (in one eye) so
ideally needs large easy to read numbers and a mechanism that easy to
use. It will also be used by carers visiting the property.

Currently fitted is this type
https://www.screwfix.com/p/master-lo...key-safe/77908

and IMO is completely crap. The numbers on the combination are small and
with fairly limited use are already silver on a silver background and
even I have difficulty in seeing them. The opening lever requires thin
fingers and not only has it to be pushed down but to open the box has to
be caught with a finger nail to bring it forward.

I have another type fitted somewhere on my property with small push
buttons that is slightly better but once open it is very fiddly to close
again having to re-input the code, but now with the buttons on the
hinged section section that is free. OK maybe for the occasional use but
probably not suitable for day to day use where carers may be different
people each day, and again not suitable for someone with failing sight

Sometimes one can only judge the ease of working of some of these
equipments trying to use them on a regular basis hence a call for
recommendations.

On Friday, 22 November 2019 14:17:12 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 22/11/2019 13:28, whisky-dave wrote:

Some devices can the cheaper ones. But why are we seucuring the door from others is the important thing here, and it;s not like no one has ever gained access without the correct key to any place, it;s just what effort you need to take to eliminate such a thing and in most cases I doubt many people carry a dead finger around with them, or have access to the latex and a suitable finger.
Face recognicion is another option, I've heard in the USA they are looking into guns that can only be fired after face recogniction has been used.
I'm expecting some idiot to blow their own face off.


And possible after all the electronic security the interlock will be a
simple relay contact that can be bypassed with a bit of wire.

Yes, like they do on star trek and other such things where they use brut force to rip off the keybad consule and then join a couple of wires together.


The law abiding will use the face recognition while the criminal
fraternity and US kids "borrowing" firearms will look on Youtube and
find the bypass.

or find an easier target.
I;m not sure how often this sort of thing gets bypassed.


Much like the popular home safes with an electronic keypad where the
lock relay can be defeated simply by placing a magnet in the top left
corner of the door to trigger the relay.

My dad had two of those, where he kept spare cash, which amounted to nearly £500
He used his DoB as the combination.

In article ,
Jim Chisholm wrote:
I'd be wary of any 4 digit code...

We had an aged relative who was admitted to hospital. When a little
better he wanted some stuff, but lost his keys on admission...
We assumed warden or neighbour would have spare key. They didn't...

I got the 4 digit code at second try. I wonder how many other dwellings
in the same complex had identical or very similar codes? So the last 4
digits of his land line would probably have been more secure.

or the battle of ..?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 22 November 2019 14:17:12 UTC, alan_m wrote:
On 22/11/2019 13:28, whisky-dave wrote:

Some devices can the cheaper ones. But why are we seucuring the door
from others is the important thing here, and it;s not like no one has
ever gained access without the correct key to any place, it;s just
what effort you need to take to eliminate such a thing and in most
cases I doubt many people carry a dead finger around with them, or
have access to the latex and a suitable finger. Face recognicion is
another option, I've heard in the USA they are looking into guns that
can only be fired after face recogniction has been used. I'm
expecting some idiot to blow their own face off.


And possible after all the electronic security the interlock will be a
simple relay contact that can be bypassed with a bit of wire.

Yes, like they do on star trek and other such things where they use brut
force to rip off the keybad consule and then join a couple of wires
together.


The law abiding will use the face recognition while the criminal
fraternity and US kids "borrowing" firearms will look on Youtube and
find the bypass.

or find an easier target. I;m not sure how often this sort of thing gets
bypassed.


Much like the popular home safes with an electronic keypad where the
lock relay can be defeated simply by placing a magnet in the top left
corner of the door to trigger the relay.

My dad had two of those, where he kept spare cash, which amounted to
nearly £500 He used his DoB as the combination.

I use my late mother-in-law's phone number (at her previosu house)

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Friday, 22 November 2019 15:11:45 UTC, charles wrote:
In article ,
Jim Chisholm wrote:
I'd be wary of any 4 digit code...

We had an aged relative who was admitted to hospital. When a little
better he wanted some stuff, but lost his keys on admission...
We assumed warden or neighbour would have spare key. They didn't...

I got the 4 digit code at second try. I wonder how many other dwellings
in the same complex had identical or very similar codes? So the last 4
digits of his land line would probably have been more secure.

or the battle of ..?

2016 ?
perhaps 2020 the peoples vote/battle



--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 22/11/2019 15:04, charles wrote:
In article ,
Jim Chisholm wrote:
I'd be wary of any 4 digit code...

We had an aged relative who was admitted to hospital. When a little
better he wanted some stuff, but lost his keys on admission...
We assumed warden or neighbour would have spare key. They didn't...

I got the 4 digit code at second try. I wonder how many other dwellings
in the same complex had identical or very similar codes? So the last 4
digits of his land line would probably have been more secure.

or the battle of ..?


Somewhat like some banks wanting a memorable date in the form
day/month/year but then issue the warning not to use your birth date.

--
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