i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

Robert

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 02:43:26 -0700, RobertL wrote:

i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

Robert

Probably so that you can lock the door from the inside and be sure that
no-one can open it from the outside - rather like using a separate bolt.

You can buy replacement cylinders that allow operation from both sides
though.

SteveW

On Jun 28, 11:48 am, Steve Walker wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 02:43:26 -0700, RobertL wrote:
i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

Robert

Probably so that you can lock the door from the inside and be sure that
no-one can open it from the outside - rather like using a separate bolt.

You can buy replacement cylinders that allow operation from both sides
though.


Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


R

On 28 Jun, 12:56, RobertL wrote:

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point
with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully
someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

Mathew

"Mathew Newton" wrote in message
ps.com...
On 28 Jun, 12:56, RobertL wrote:

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point
with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully
someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

Mathew

I heard of someone who had locked themselves out (after leaving by another
door with a latch bolt) and called a locksmith (another key was in the lock
on the inside). He filed a bit off the end of the key and it allowed the key
to then open the lock.

Any views on why this worked?

On 28/06/2007 17:09, John wrote:

I heard of someone who had locked themselves out (after leaving by another
door with a latch bolt) and called a locksmith (another key was in the lock
on the inside). He filed a bit off the end of the key and it allowed the key
to then open the lock.

Any views on why this worked?

It was then short enough to NOT touch the key in the inside cylinder?

RobertL wrote:
i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

When you've got a kitten that's too small to go out and you don't want
your SO to let it out by accident as they get home?



--
Spamtrap in use
To email replace 127.0.0.1 with btinternet dot com

"Chris Hodges" wrote in message
...
RobertL wrote:
i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?


If you insist on permanently having a key inserted on the inside you should
change the cylinder to one with a thumbturn on the inside, that would
alleviate your problem.
The other crude alternative is to file enough off the tip of your external
key to allow it to be fully inserted, just dont file enough off to remove
the bit of the key that lifts the pins in the cylinder.
Last option is to change the lock body mechanism to one that doesn't lock
automatically when door is shut.

In article om,
Mathew Newton writes:
On 28 Jun, 12:56, RobertL wrote:

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point
with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully
someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the
secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings,
i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 29 Jun 2007 00:22:36 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article om,
Mathew Newton writes:
On 28 Jun, 12:56, RobertL wrote:

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point
with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully
someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the
secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings,
i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

I don't think there are many people left in the country that don't
know how to do this.

We are saving up for replacements. (

On Jun 28, 8:26 pm, "Scabbydug" wrote:
"Chris Hodges" wrote in message

...

RobertL wrote:
i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

If you insist on permanently having a key inserted on the inside you should
change the cylinder to one with a thumbturn on the inside, that would
alleviate your problem.
The other crude alternative is to file enough off the tip of your external
key to allow it to be fully inserted, just dont file enough off to remove
the bit of the key that lifts the pins in the cylinder.
Last option is to change the lock body mechanism to one that doesn't lock
automatically when door is shut.

Well, I don't 'insist' on having a key on the inside, but I'd prefer
to know that if I have a key to the house I can be certain that I can
use it to get back in.

I'll file the keys i think. That's cheaperthan fitting longer
cylinders which in any case seem to be out of favour.

But does anyone know why they are made like this? Is it a design
error or is there some security reason that means it's a feature worth
having?

Robert

On 29 Jun 2007 00:22:36 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) mused:

In article om,
Mathew Newton writes:
On 28 Jun, 12:56, RobertL wrote:

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point
with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully
someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the
secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings,
i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

Can still be opened in under 20 seconds though.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 2007-06-29, Lurch wrote:
On 29 Jun 2007 00:22:36 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) mused:
I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the
secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings,
i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

One web-site (part of a commercial site selling such cylinders) suggests
0 - 2 mm protrusion on the secured side and 5 mm or so on the other.

I have also seen euro lock cylinders with a built-in breaking point to
defeat the "usual" mechanical attack.

Can still be opened in under 20 seconds though.

As one data point, I lost my keys and called in a national chain
locksmith. This was a 5-pin euro-profile cylinder.

He first tried a very noisy electrical lock picker which inserts some
kind of blade into the cylinder and then seems to manipulate the pins
rapidly. It failed to open the lock after about two minutes of trying.

However, I assume he was expecting this to work rapidly.

Then he asked if he could drill it. This was actually much quieter and
succeeded in less than 60 seconds. I am sure this would not have been
noticed even at night.

Just how secure is "secure enough" and what do you do to achieve it?

--
John Phillips

On 29 Jun 2007 11:07:11 GMT, John Phillips
mused:

On 2007-06-29, Lurch wrote:
On 29 Jun 2007 00:22:36 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) mused:
I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the
secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings,
i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

One web-site (part of a commercial site selling such cylinders) suggests
0 - 2 mm protrusion on the secured side and 5 mm or so on the other.

I have also seen euro lock cylinders with a built-in breaking point to
defeat the "usual" mechanical attack.

Can still be opened in under 20 seconds though.

As one data point, I lost my keys and called in a national chain
locksmith. This was a 5-pin euro-profile cylinder.

He first tried a very noisy electrical lock picker which inserts some
kind of blade into the cylinder and then seems to manipulate the pins
rapidly. It failed to open the lock after about two minutes of trying.

However, I assume he was expecting this to work rapidly.

Then he asked if he could drill it. This was actually much quieter and
succeeded in less than 60 seconds. I am sure this would not have been
noticed even at night.

That wasn't a locksmith, that was a bloke with an electric rattly
thing and a drill.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In article .com
, RobertL writes
On Jun 28, 8:26 pm, "Scabbydug" wrote:
"Chris Hodges" wrote in message

...

RobertL wrote:
i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

If you insist on permanently having a key inserted on the inside you should
change the cylinder to one with a thumbturn on the inside, that would
alleviate your problem.
The other crude alternative is to file enough off the tip of your external
key to allow it to be fully inserted, just dont file enough off to remove
the bit of the key that lifts the pins in the cylinder.
Last option is to change the lock body mechanism to one that doesn't lock
automatically when door is shut.

Well, I don't 'insist' on having a key on the inside, but I'd prefer
to know that if I have a key to the house I can be certain that I can
use it to get back in.

I'll file the keys i think. That's cheaperthan fitting longer
cylinders which in any case seem to be out of favour.

But does anyone know why they are made like this? Is it a design
error or is there some security reason that means it's a feature worth
having?

If you enter the house and have chosen to lock the door from the inside
and leave the key in place it is assumed that you don't want intrusion from
the outside, it is fail secure. If you want to permit access for the outside
having locked the door from the inside you remove the key.

Beware of filing the nose from the key, as cheap euros use the nose to
activate the cam as opposed to using the plug-with-key-inserted to activate
the cam. eg ERA are cheap euros that use the nose to activate the cam.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

But does anyone know why they are made like this? Is it a design
error or is there some security reason that means it's a feature worth
having?

It stops you from locking the door having left your SOH keys in the outside
lock.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:09:04 GMT, "John"
wrote:


I heard of someone who had locked themselves out (after leaving by another
door with a latch bolt) and called a locksmith (another key was in the lock
on the inside). He filed a bit off the end of the key and it allowed the key
to then open the lock.

Any views on why this worked?


Typical American Tech -Support type answer :

"Guess it must be made that way" ;-)

I managed to lock myself out of a duplex apartment in Prague by
slamming the door with the second key in the lock on the inside. The
landlord called a locksmith who opened the door with a triangular
shaped piece of sheet metal bent to the profile of the UPVC door jamb.
He entered it into gap at the top of the locking stile and slid it
downwards 'till it encountered the latchbolt pushing it back.

I presume there are deadbolt versions upon which this method would
fail.

DG

In article , dennis@home
writes
But does anyone know why they are made like this? Is it a design
error or is there some security reason that means it's a feature worth
having?

It stops you from locking the door having left your SOH keys in the outside
lock.

Who are you replying to?
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:31:33 GMT, fred mused:

In article .com
, RobertL writes
On Jun 28, 8:26 pm, "Scabbydug" wrote:
"Chris Hodges" wrote in message

...

RobertL wrote:
i have a newish plastic front door with a Yale lock with
eurocylinder. it has an annoying feature but maybe there is a reason
for it. can aonyone explain please?

The eurocylinder has two cylinders for the key, one facing inside and
once facing outside. You can unlock the doo from either side, but it
latches simply by being closed.

the trsange featiure is this: If you leave a key in the inside
cylinder then this seems to prevent you fully inserting a key into the
outside cylinder. So, if you do leave the inner key in place then you
can lock yourself out even though you have a key.

Is there a reason for this feature?

If you insist on permanently having a key inserted on the inside you should
change the cylinder to one with a thumbturn on the inside, that would
alleviate your problem.
The other crude alternative is to file enough off the tip of your external
key to allow it to be fully inserted, just dont file enough off to remove
the bit of the key that lifts the pins in the cylinder.
Last option is to change the lock body mechanism to one that doesn't lock
automatically when door is shut.

Well, I don't 'insist' on having a key on the inside, but I'd prefer
to know that if I have a key to the house I can be certain that I can
use it to get back in.

I'll file the keys i think. That's cheaperthan fitting longer
cylinders which in any case seem to be out of favour.

But does anyone know why they are made like this? Is it a design
error or is there some security reason that means it's a feature worth
having?

If you enter the house and have chosen to lock the door from the inside
and leave the key in place it is assumed that you don't want intrusion from
the outside, it is fail secure. If you want to permit access for the outside
having locked the door from the inside you remove the key.

But the OP's lock automatically locks when the door is shut whther
there's a key in it or not.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article om,
Mathew Newton writes:
On 28 Jun, 12:56, RobertL wrote:

Aha, that is what I will do I think. Presumably they would just stick
out a bit further, which would be fine.


However I believe that such an extrusion is apparently the weak point
with Euro cylinders. I don't know any more than that so hopefully
someone with more knowledge can confirm/deny this and explain further.

I can confirm the cylinder must not protrude (at least on the
secured side, the side with the handle without screw fixings,
i.e. the outside). Sorry I'm not going to explain why.

You'd have to kill someone ?

--
geoff