Brian Reay presented the following explanation :
We dont use ours much but, going by others comments and the odd time we
tried our previous one, the temp control tends to be poor as does the
insulation.

We use ours for almost all main meals eaten in. One small oven is a bit
restrictive, but we have managed full Sunday style roast meals in it,
without too much bother. I don't have/ don't like microwaved food,
other than for reheating.

Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors, in
non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.

Thanks, it's good to see the actual requirements. I've used sheathed
flexible in our boat (mostly the same rules as caravans etc. for such
a similar environment).

I assume the flex/multistrand requirement is to cope with more
movement and vibration.

--
Chris Green
·

On 13/08/19 09:37, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Brian Reay presented the following explanation :
We dont use ours much but, going by others comments and the odd time we
tried our previous one, the temp control tends to be poor as does the
insulation.

We use ours for almost all main meals eaten in. One small oven is a bit
restrictive, but we have managed full Sunday style roast meals in it,
without too much bother. I don't have/ don't like microwaved food, other
than for reheating.

I've heard of people doing roast dinners etc (even bread) in
caravan/motorhome ovens but we've not tried it.

We like the occasional roast dinner- mainly when the daughters are home
etc (it was the norm when they were at home) but we have a lighter
approach to meals. Especially in France, we eat more fish and salad etc.
In the colder weather, I favour stews/curries and similar meals.

Agree re the microwave, not that I think it is bad for taste etc, it
just isn't how we cook. It ideal for jacket potatoes, heating milk, and
a few other thinks. I do a lot a 'cooking ahead' and freezing and those
are fine heated in the microwave.

Weather permitting, we cook under the awning- I've got a small BBQ and
and a simple stove. There is something about cooking and eating outside,
especially in the evening.

On 13/08/19 09:05, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim+ pretended :
Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.


********! Gas is the most common way of powering a fridge when €œoff grid€�.

Correct!

Quite so. However I gather that some recent models won't actually
power on gas without having a 12 V control supply present.

The modern ones at least have two 12V supplies. A high current one which
is switched so it is only on when the engine is running. It powers the
heating jacket. Then there is a low current one which powers the
control circuits and, I assume, the igniter for the gas.

We rarely run ours on gas, I think we've run the current on it once when
we stayed in a 'Pub Stop' (one of those Pubs you can stay in their
carparks if you eat there etc). We don't normally use them but it was
recommended as it was near the place which fitted the towbar to our new
vehicle the next day.

On 13/08/19 08:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
dennis@home formulated the question :
You arent in the vehicle on the ferry.

You aren't allowed in a caravan that is being towed in the UK.

Brian was discussing motorhomes.

Harry is correct. Having said that, on a recent trip, I was shocked to
to see a face at the window of a caravan on the M1. It looked like
someone was had just woken up and was having a look outside.

I believe you can get special seat (bed?) belts so you can use the beds
in motorhomes but I've never seen them in the UK (I did see them in the
US). Plus, the beds don't usually have the 'hard points' required so
fitting them, at least to fixed beds, must be quite a job.

On 12/08/19 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?




If you are planning to rewire one, there are two main approaches.

One is to use a 'control box' and associated panel. People like CBE,
Sargent make them. These tend mainly to control the 12V side and
interface with the vehicle- especially in motorhomes. They generally do
have some mains element but it is generally just housing the RCD and
MCBs, rather than actual control.

The other approach is less integrated. Basic wiring with fuses or
circuit breakers etc and sensors for the water tanks. People like CBE
make the various bits you need.

Our previous mh had a Sargent Box, it was large but seemed very good. We
didn't have any problems, other than the water level sensor was
sensitive to lime scale. Adding a larger cathode (reducing the current
density and therefore scale / area over time) solved this. The new one
is a CBE. It is more compact and, so far, has been fine.

Brian Reay wrote:
On 12/08/19 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?




If you are planning to rewire one, there are two main approaches.

One is to use a 'control box' and associated panel. People like CBE,
Sargent make them. These tend mainly to control the 12V side and
interface with the vehicle- especially in motorhomes. They generally do
have some mains element but it is generally just housing the RCD and
MCBs, rather than actual control.

The other approach is less integrated. Basic wiring with fuses or
circuit breakers etc and sensors for the water tanks. People like CBE
make the various bits you need.

Our previous mh had a Sargent Box, it was large but seemed very good. We
didn't have any problems, other than the water level sensor was
sensitive to lime scale. Adding a larger cathode (reducing the current
density and therefore scale / area over time) solved this. The new one
is a CBE. It is more compact and, so far, has been fine.

On our boat I have simply used an ordinary (as in domestic mains)
consumer unit. I checked with the manufacturer that the MCBs were
suitable for 12 volt use, not all are but the Crabtree ones I have
used are good down to 12 volts. 'Domestic' CUs provide a much cheaper
solution than much of the very expensive stuff sold for 12 volt use on
motorhomes and boats. Just make sure you size the wire for the higher
currents that (may) be needed and away you go.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?

They generally seem to be wired with an eye on the cost - with quality
coming a long way down the line. Pretty well everything seems to be
poorish quality - but at a high price when it comes to spares.

--
*Why do psychics have to ask you for your name? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/08/2019 12:01, Chris Green wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:
On 12/08/19 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?




If you are planning to rewire one, there are two main approaches.

One is to use a 'control box' and associated panel. People like CBE,
Sargent make them. These tend mainly to control the 12V side and
interface with the vehicle- especially in motorhomes. They generally do
have some mains element but it is generally just housing the RCD and
MCBs, rather than actual control.

The other approach is less integrated. Basic wiring with fuses or
circuit breakers etc and sensors for the water tanks. People like CBE
make the various bits you need.

Our previous mh had a Sargent Box, it was large but seemed very good. We
didn't have any problems, other than the water level sensor was
sensitive to lime scale. Adding a larger cathode (reducing the current
density and therefore scale / area over time) solved this. The new one
is a CBE. It is more compact and, so far, has been fine.

On our boat I have simply used an ordinary (as in domestic mains)
consumer unit. I checked with the manufacturer that the MCBs were
suitable for 12 volt use, not all are but the Crabtree ones I have
used are good down to 12 volts. 'Domestic' CUs provide a much cheaper
solution than much of the very expensive stuff sold for 12 volt use on
motorhomes and boats. Just make sure you size the wire for the higher
currents that (may) be needed and away you go.


The mains stuff is generally domestic MCBs and RCBs etc, either a
modular type arrangement in a larger overall unit or, as in our new
vehicle, what looks like a small domestic unit. With a separate 12V box
entirely.

Contrary to what someone else has posted, the ones I've seen are fine
quality wise. The only bit which is a let down is 12V sockets. The, so
called, cigar/cigarette lighter socket is still the standard. There are
some others around but they aren't common. I tend to use PowerPoles.

True, the 'special' fittings they tend to use are over priced compared
to standard ones but you tend not to need many. They are just a bit more
compact / slim etc. CBE are probably the most common but there are others.

On 13/08/2019 12:01, Chris Green wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:
On 12/08/19 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?




If you are planning to rewire one, there are two main approaches.

One is to use a 'control box' and associated panel. People like CBE,
Sargent make them. These tend mainly to control the 12V side and
interface with the vehicle- especially in motorhomes. They generally do
have some mains element but it is generally just housing the RCD and
MCBs, rather than actual control.

The other approach is less integrated. Basic wiring with fuses or
circuit breakers etc and sensors for the water tanks. People like CBE
make the various bits you need.

Our previous mh had a Sargent Box, it was large but seemed very good. We
didn't have any problems, other than the water level sensor was
sensitive to lime scale. Adding a larger cathode (reducing the current
density and therefore scale / area over time) solved this. The new one
is a CBE. It is more compact and, so far, has been fine.

On our boat I have simply used an ordinary (as in domestic mains)
consumer unit. I checked with the manufacturer that the MCBs were
suitable for 12 volt use, not all are but the Crabtree ones I have
used are good down to 12 volts. 'Domestic' CUs provide a much cheaper
solution than much of the very expensive stuff sold for 12 volt use on
motorhomes and boats. Just make sure you size the wire for the higher
currents that (may) be needed and away you go.


I remember you asking about MCBs for 12V. That is one option I will
consider.

--
Adam

On 13/08/2019 11:07, Brian Reay wrote:

If you are planning to rewire one, there are two main approaches.

One is to use a 'control box' and associated panel. People like CBE,
Sargent make them.Â* These tend mainly to control the 12V side and
interface with the vehicle- especially in motorhomes. They generally do
have some mains element but it is generally just housing the RCD and
MCBs, rather than actual control.

The other approach is less integrated. Basic wiring with fuses or
circuit breakers etc and sensors for the water tanks. People like CBE
make the various bits you need.

Our previous mh had a Sargent Box, it was large but seemed very good. We
didn't have any problems, other than the water level sensor was
sensitive to lime scale. Adding a larger cathode (reducing the current
density and therefore scale / area over time) solved this. The new one
is a CBE. It is more compact and, so far, has been fine.



I think I need to find out what she actually wants! Her sister who lives
in Barnsley asked if I would do the job so I thought I had better do
some research before I say yes.

But thanks you have provided some interesting info for my research.



--
Adam

On 13/08/2019 07:49, Halmyre wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:08:47 PM UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.


Most caravanners swear by gas fridges. Sorry, let me rephrase that: most caravanners swear AT gas fridges. Lying on the floor for twenty minutes repeatedly pressing the piezo igniter and looking for the elusive blue glow through the little window that indicates successful ignition.

Piezo? Ours had a rotary knob, driving a rod, with a toothed metal wheel
on the end and a flint.

It was generally easier to pull the front grill off the bottom of the
fridge, pull out the entire ignitor mechanism and light the pilot light
with a long match held between two fingers of a flat hand!

Can be useful when some idiot has been too free with the hose while washing the caravan, and doused the electrics with water. Running it on gas for a few hours drives off the moisture.

I think running a fridge on 12V is only an option if it's already down to temperature. This is on my elderly van, YMMV.

That is presumably just down to them designing it not to take too much
current. Traditional caravan fridges work by heating part of the circuit
and if it can feeze ice-cubes using mains or gas, there is no reason
(other than how much current) to prevent a 12V electric heater producing
the same effect.

SteveW

In article , ARW
writes
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64
or overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners
have any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?




Depends on the age of the caravan.
When you say rewire are you meaning all 12v as well as mains?
Not inverters as standard.
Caravan Club has lots of technical info on wiring. Don't think you need
to be a member to access it.
--
bert

In article , Brian Reay
writes
Fredxx wrote:
On 13/08/2019 00:54, Brian Reay wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more
efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.

Gas works out more expensive than hookup electricity. Diesel heating is
popular on boats.

Heating systems can be quite sophisticated, ours has a Hive like
system you
can control/monitor via your phone, including the water heater. Some,
including ours, can even operate on gas while driving quite safely.

That is not recommended!


Who by? The systems are specifically designed to be for the purpose.

The French for one.

Nonsense. French motorhomes have the systems.


Ferries are another where they insist the bottle
itself is turned off.

You arent in the vehicle on the ferry.

The systems are fully approved for the purpose, both in the UK and Europe.

Then their claims are faulty.


Nonsense.



They have sensors to cut off the supply if they detect an accident and to
detect breaks in the lines.

Much safer to simply turn of at the bottle. No risk of fractured lines.



In larger vehicles, the normal heating from the engine would probably
struggle to keep the whole habitation area comfortable for some people in
cold weather.

The engine efficiency should ensure more than enough hot water. If not
perhaps an exhaust heat exchanger? Or a bigger radiator/fan heater.


Oh dear, you really dont have a clue.



Well which bit of "Caravan" in the subject line do you not understand?
--
bert

In article , Brian Reay
writes
On 13/08/19 08:53, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
dennis@home formulated the question :
You arent in the vehicle on the ferry.

You aren't allowed in a caravan that is being towed in the UK.
Brian was discussing motorhomes.

Harry is correct. Having said that, on a recent trip, I was shocked to
to see a face at the window of a caravan on the M1. It looked like
someone was had just woken up and was having a look outside.

Illegal to carry a passenger in a trailer.
I believe you can get special seat (bed?) belts so you can use the beds
in motorhomes but I've never seen them in the UK (I did see them in the
US). Plus, the beds don't usually have the 'hard points' required so
fitting them, at least to fixed beds, must be quite a job.

--
bert

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Brian Reay laid this down on his screen :
Virtually motorhome Ive looked at has a three way fridge, gas, 12v, 240v


I have seen gas/240v only, but the more desirable ones are the 3 way
fridges. They run most economically cost wise, on 240v.

240v and gas use a thermostat, the 12v does not - they run flat out
continuously, barely able to hold the temperature down.
The 12v is designed only for use in transit connected to the towing
vehicle. hey would flatten 12v batteries in next to no time. I have one
which is controlled by thermostat on 12v.
--
bert

In article , Chris J Dixon
writes
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim+ pretended :
Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.


********! Gas is the most common way of powering a fridge when €œoff grid€�.

Correct!

Quite so. However I gather that some recent models won't actually
power on gas without having a 12 V control supply present.

Chris
Yup I have one.
--
bert

In article ,
Halmyre writes
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:08:47 PM UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.


Most caravanners swear by gas fridges. Sorry, let me rephrase that:
most caravanners swear AT gas fridges. Lying on the floor for twenty
minutes repeatedly pressing the piezo igniter and looking for the
elusive blue glow through the little window that indicates successful
ignition.

Can be useful when some idiot has been too free with the hose while
washing the caravan, and doused the electrics with water. Running it on
gas for a few hours drives off the moisture.

I think running a fridge on 12V is only an option if it's already down
to temperature. This is on my elderly van, YMMV.

RTFM. It will say that the fridge should be at working temperature
before switching to 12v which is there to hold the temperature whilst in
transit.
--
bert

"Harry Bloomfield"; "Esq." wrote in
message ...
Brian Reay presented the following explanation :
We dont use ours much but, going by others comments and the odd time we
tried our previous one, the temp control tends to be poor as does the
insulation.

We use ours for almost all main meals eaten in. One small oven is a bit
restrictive, but we have managed full Sunday style roast meals in it,
without too much bother.

I don't have/ don't like microwaved food, other than for reheating.

I agree for the meat, but imo it is fine for the
potato, frozen peas and corn and for rice.
Much better than the stove top for all of those.
Tho I now do roast potato with almost all meals
except steak and chops etc, done in the air fryer.

Steve Walker wrote:


That is presumably just down to them designing it not to take too much
current. Traditional caravan fridges work by heating part of the circuit
and if it can feeze ice-cubes using mains or gas, there is no reason
(other than how much current) to prevent a 12V electric heater producing
the same effect.

I guess the problem is actually that making a thermostat capable
of switching the required load at 12 V dc is non-trivial. To get
a sufficiently vigorous snap action would probably introduce an
unacceptable amount of hysteresis.

As a compromise they design a cooling level that will keep the
fridge cold, at some target ambient, but not overcool. Naturally
a trip in some of our recent temperatures will be challenging.

As an aside, if your car does auto stop-start, you may find the
fridge feed is off when the engine stops.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On Wednesday, 14 August 2019 07:58:15 UTC+1, Chris J Dixon wrote:
I guess the problem is actually that making a thermostat capable
of switching the required load at 12 V dc is non-trivial. To get
a sufficiently vigorous snap action would probably introduce an
unacceptable amount of hysteresis.

They could use a relay.

Owain

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 13:08:49 +1000, Sewer, better known as
cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


We use ours for almost all main meals eaten in. One small oven is a bit
restrictive, but we have managed full Sunday style roast meals in it,
without too much bother.

I don't have/ don't like microwaved food, other than for reheating.

I agree for the meat, but imo it is fine for the

You really believe people want to hear what you like or don't like, right,
senile Rodent? That IS another sign of your sociopathy!

--
Bod addressing senile Rot:
"Rod, you have a sick twisted mind. I suggest you stop your mindless
and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
Message-ID:

On 13/08/2019 21:39, bert wrote:

Depends on the age of the caravan.
When you say rewire are you meaning all 12v as well as mains?
Not inverters as standard.
Caravan Club has lots of technical info on wiring. Don't think you need
to be a member to access it.

It will be old. No idea as yet what I will be rewiring.

--
Adam

On 13/08/2019 18:31, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2019 11:07, Brian Reay wrote:

If you are planning to rewire one, there are two main approaches.

One is to use a 'control box' and associated panel. People like CBE,
Sargent make them.Â* These tend mainly to control the 12V side and
interface with the vehicle- especially in motorhomes. They generally
do have some mains element but it is generally just housing the RCD
and MCBs, rather than actual control.

The other approach is less integrated. Basic wiring with fuses or
circuit breakers etc and sensors for the water tanks. People like CBE
make the various bits you need.

Our previous mh had a Sargent Box, it was large but seemed very good.
We didn't have any problems, other than the water level sensor was
sensitive to lime scale. Adding a larger cathode (reducing the current
density and therefore scale / area over time) solved this. The new one
is a CBE. It is more compact and, so far, has been fine.



I think I need to find out what she actually wants! Her sister who lives
in Barnsley asked if I would do the job so I thought I had better do
some research before I say yes.

But thanks you have provided some interesting info for my research.



Might interior and exterior photos be help the planning?

Or essential if you are expected to sleep in it

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 13/08/2019 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors, in
non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.


It's not what cables to use that bothers me. It's more what advances are
there in making it more user friendly. I had never even considered that
all the lighting should be 12V.

I have never towed one, never slept in on and never rewired one. The
closest I have come to working on one was the PAT testing of South
Yorkshire Police mobile CCTV vehicle. Unfortunately that set on fire
when I switched on the vans 230V supply.

--
Adam

On 14/08/2019 19:07, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2019 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

Â*From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors, in
non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.


It's not what cables to use that bothers me. It's more what advances are
there in making it more user friendly. I had never even considered that
all the lighting should be 12V.

Hmm, there is a whole debate there.

Most modern ones have a 'smart' box which controls various things,
including a user control panel. Just how much of functionality is
required is open to debate. You could implement most things with just
switchers and simple sensors (for water level, voltage sensing etc). No
need for LCD displays and menus. Perhaps a simple voltmeter.

If you look on YouTube, there are videos where people have done their
own conversions and wired up simple but adequate electrical systems
without using a commercial controller.

On 14/08/2019 19:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 14/08/2019 19:07, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2019 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

Â*From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the
following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors,
in non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.


It's not what cables to use that bothers me. It's more what advances
are there in making it more user friendly. I had never even considered
that all the lighting should be 12V.

Hmm, there is a whole debate there.

Most modern ones have a 'smart' box which controls various things,
including a user control panel. Just how much of functionality is
required is open to debate. You could implement most things with just
switchers and simple sensors (for water level, voltage sensing etc). No
need for LCD displays and menus. Perhaps a simple voltmeter.

If you look on YouTube, there are videos where people have done their
own conversions and wired up simple but adequate electrical systems
without using a commercial controller.

I might be overestimating what she wants.


--
Adam

In article , ARW
writes
On 14/08/2019 19:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 14/08/2019 19:07, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2019 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

*From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the
following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors,
in non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.


It's not what cables to use that bothers me. It's more what advances
are there in making it more user friendly. I had never even
considered that all the lighting should be 12V.
Hmm, there is a whole debate there.
Most modern ones have a 'smart' box which controls various things,
including a user control panel. Just how much of functionality is
required is open to debate. You could implement most things with just
switchers and simple sensors (for water level, voltage sensing etc).
No need for LCD displays and menus. Perhaps a simple voltmeter.
If you look on YouTube, there are videos where people have done
their own conversions and wired up simple but adequate electrical
systems without using a commercial controller.

I might be overestimating what she wants.


Well that's the key thing. If it needs a rewire is it an older caravan?
Does she just want basically what she has now.

Her caravan will be plated as NCC approved.
https://www.thencc.org.uk/the_ncc/aboutNCC.aspx
As a diy job it is not difficult., just as rewiring your house isn't
difficult. It's the certification bit that causes the problems esp when
it comes to insurance.

Can I suggest that you call in at a caravan dealership and have a look
at a few new caravans so you will see the sort of things which are
current on the electrical side.

Then go back to your client and establish just what she wants. If it's a
major upgrade then I would be inclined to advise you as a professional
to decline.
--
bert

On 14/08/2019 21:05, bert wrote:
In article , ARW
writes
On 14/08/2019 19:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 14/08/2019 19:07, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2019 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

Â*From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the
following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors,
in non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.


It's not what cables to use that bothers me. It's more what advances
are there in making it more user friendly. I had never even
consideredÂ* that all the lighting should be 12V.
Â*Hmm, there is a whole debate there.
Â*Most modern ones have a 'smart' box which controls various things,
including a user control panel. Just how much of functionality is
required is open to debate. You could implement most things with just
switchers and simple sensors (for water level, voltage sensing etc).
NoÂ* need for LCD displays and menus. Perhaps a simple voltmeter.
Â*If you look on YouTube, there are videos where people have done
theirÂ* own conversions and wired up simple but adequate electrical
systemsÂ* without using a commercial controller.

I might be overestimating what she wants.


Well that's the key thing. If it needs a rewire is it an older caravan?
Does she just want basically what she has now.

Her caravan will be plated as NCC approved.
https://www.thencc.org.uk/the_ncc/aboutNCC.aspx
As a diy job it is not difficult., just as rewiring your house isn't
difficult. It's the certification bit that causes the problems esp when
it comes to insurance.

Can I suggest that you call in at a caravan dealership and have a look
at a few new caravans so you will see the sort of things which are
current on the electrical side.

Then go back to your client and establish just what she wants. If it's a
major upgrade then I would be inclined to advise you as a professional
to decline.

Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

--
Adam

ARW wrote:


Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Probably just needs a few new gas mantles and the chemical toilet emptying
then. ;-)

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16/08/2019 18:42, Tim+ wrote:
ARW wrote:


Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Probably just needs a few new gas mantles and the chemical toilet emptying
then. ;-)

I am trying to get some photos of it.


--
Adam

On 16/08/2019 19:05, ARW wrote:
On 16/08/2019 18:42, Tim+ wrote:
ARW wrote:


Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Probably just needs a few new gas mantles and the chemical toilet
emptying
then. ;-)

I am trying to get some photos of it.



And at some point towing up to Barnsley. It has been mentioned that my
car is equipped for towing..........

--
Adam

On Friday, 16 August 2019 19:15:48 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
And at some point towing up to Barnsley. It has been mentioned that my
car is equipped for towing..........

Towing, yes; dragging, no.

Owain

ARW wrote:
On 16/08/2019 18:42, Tim+ wrote:
ARW wrote:


Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Probably just needs a few new gas mantles and the chemical toilet emptying
then. ;-)

I am trying to get some photos of it.



Is it insured for fire? It would probably be a kindness. ;-)

Seriously, unless it has *huge* sentimental value or is a rare or
€œprestige€� marque, rewiring it sounds like a fools errand.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16/08/2019 20:21, Tim+ wrote:
snip
Seriously, unless it has *huge* sentimental value or is a rare or
€œprestige€� marque, rewiring it sounds like a fools errand.


I wonder if the "re" is accurate.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

In article , ARW
writes
On 14/08/2019 21:05, bert wrote:
In article , ARW
writes
On 14/08/2019 19:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 14/08/2019 19:07, ARW wrote:
On 13/08/2019 08:52, Andy Burns wrote:
Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

*From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the
following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5
conductors, in non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2
conductors (minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.


It's not what cables to use that bothers me. It's more what
advances are there in making it more user friendly. I had never
even considered* that all the lighting should be 12V.
*Hmm, there is a whole debate there.
*Most modern ones have a 'smart' box which controls various things,
including a user control panel. Just how much of functionality is
required is open to debate. You could implement most things with
just switchers and simple sensors (for water level, voltage sensing
etc). No* need for LCD displays and menus. Perhaps a simple voltmeter.
*If you look on YouTube, there are videos where people have done
their* own conversions and wired up simple but adequate electrical
systems* without using a commercial controller.

I might be overestimating what she wants.


Well that's the key thing. If it needs a rewire is it an older
caravan? Does she just want basically what she has now.
Her caravan will be plated as NCC approved.
https://www.thencc.org.uk/the_ncc/aboutNCC.aspx
As a diy job it is not difficult., just as rewiring your house isn't
difficult. It's the certification bit that causes the problems esp
when it comes to insurance.
Can I suggest that you call in at a caravan dealership and have a
look at a few new caravans so you will see the sort of things which
are current on the electrical side.
Then go back to your client and establish just what she wants. If
it's a major upgrade then I would be inclined to advise you as a
professional to decline.

Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Chances are it's rotten. Suggest she gets it damp tested first.
--
bert

In article , ARW
writes
On 16/08/2019 19:05, ARW wrote:
On 16/08/2019 18:42, Tim+ wrote:
ARW wrote:


Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Probably just needs a few new gas mantles and the chemical toilet
emptying
then. ;-)
I am trying to get some photos of it.


And at some point towing up to Barnsley. It has been mentioned that my
car is equipped for towing..........

Start off as a caravan probably end up as a flatbed trailer :-)
tell me when and I'll remember to stay off the M5.
--
bert

Tim+ wrote:
ARW wrote:
On 16/08/2019 18:42, Tim+ wrote:
ARW wrote:


Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Probably just needs a few new gas mantles and the chemical toilet emptying
then. ;-)

I am trying to get some photos of it.



Is it insured for fire? It would probably be a kindness. ;-)

Seriously, unless it has *huge* sentimental value or is a rare or
€œprestige€� marque, rewiring it sounds like a fools errand.

Tim


You might be surprised.

There is a lot of interest in €˜vintage caravans. Alarmingly, €˜vintage is
all relative and some of us clearly remember when €˜vintage things were the
latest things. Even my eldest ( not yet 29) has experienced this!

Caravan wiring is far simpler than motorhome wiring. The latter really
requires more interaction with the base vehicle, at least in the larger
ones. A caravan is more independent. Assuming youve got the basic towing
electrics (lights) you could limit the vehicle interface to an €˜earth, 12V
(ideally switched) and include a voltage sensing €˜relay (probably solid
state these days) in the caravan.

Actual wiring for interior lights etc (12v), perhaps some 12v sockets etc,
a charger for the leisure battery, pump, a bit of mains is trivial for a
DIYer. The worst bit is probably access - wires need to be hid etc .

It could be he just needs to change the bulbs / fittings for LED ones. Our
first MH, while new, came with quartz halogen bulbs in the interior lights.
While they gave good light, replacing them with LEDs reduced the current
required by approx 90%. When you are relying on your leisure battery, that
is significant.

In article ,
ARW wrote:
Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Good luck working on that. Remove anything from an old caravan and you'll
have problems replacing it. Everything rusted or rotten. And you'll have
to do lots of dismantling for a re-wire.

--
*A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/08/2019 11:20, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
ARW wrote:
Bert, you know I said it was a woman in my local pub asking about
rewiring her sister's caravan in Bristol. Well she was in the pub again
last night and had had a few too many. It turns out it's her caravan
(although it is in Bristol and officially her sister owns it) she has
just not told her husband yet.

It's a 1960's caravan and is ****ed.

Good luck working on that. Remove anything from an old caravan and you'll
have problems replacing it. Everything rusted or rotten. And you'll have
to do lots of dismantling for a re-wire.


I have a feeling that it is going to get gutted.

--
Adam