What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?




--
Adam

On 12/08/2019 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?

with a blowtorch mostly






--
€œwhen things get difficult you just have to lie€�

€• Jean Claud Jüncker

On 12/08/2019 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?


Dunno, but here's a start:
https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/commun...2-full-rewire/

ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?


I doubt youll get many caravans with inverters to provide 240V €œoff grid€�
due to the lack of engine charging to top them up frequently.
Theoretically you could of course fit one but I dont think youd get much
use from it. A bit pointless when theres no shortage of 12V electrical
appliances for caravans.

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

ARW expressed precisely :
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a 230V
hook up. Inverters?

Pretty much, plus a few sockets, 3 way fridge, 2 way heating systems,
antenna amps, radio, possibly a remote control mover, possibly an
alarm, possibly a tracking device. All fed via an RCD small consumer
unit, with a 13.8v switch mode charger/ PSU, able to power all the 12v
in the absence of a battery.

On 12/08/2019 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?

Stranded rather than solid core cable, to reduce fatiguing and the risk
of snapping due to movement when on the road.

Back when we had a caravan (originally with 12V only electrics), we
added a mains input, mains sockets and a chunky transformer/rectifier to
provide 12V for the existing lighting and water pump.

We never added a charger, as we used either mains or the car and didn't
normally use a dedicated battery - but that was back in the days when
cars were simpler and you could easily bump-start a car with a flat
battery if you left the TV on for too long.

If there was no mains and we needed to disconnect the car (say someone
nipping out to the shops), we still had gas lighting and a foot-pump.

SteveW

Tim+ wrote:

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring. Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.

--
Chris Green
·

On 12/08/2019 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?


One issue is whether the plug that connects to the car is 7 pin or 13
pin. 13 pin may well be desireable as there are wires for lights,
reversing lights, constant and switched power.

--
Michael Chare

On 12/08/2019 22:11, Chris Green wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring. Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.


The regs don't permit class 1 solid copper in caravans.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Chris Green wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring. Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.


Has that changed? Ive never seen anything other than multi-stranded used
although admittedly its more than a few years since I looked in a caravan.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.
Heating systems can be quite sophisticated, ours has a Hive like system you
can control/monitor via your phone, including the water heater. Some,
including ours, can even operate on gas while driving quite safely.

Cooking tends to be mainly gas although having a microwave is common. Some
cookers have 2 gas rings and one electric one for when mains is available.

Id say most things, other than the high consumption devices, tend to run
of 12v - certainly in our case.

Solar panels are quite common.

Inverters are very current hungry. Do the sums for, say, 1kW at 12V and
think about the battery etc. People do use them but, if I need mains and
know I not going to have hook up, I take my generator.

On 12/08/2019 22:14, Michael Chare wrote:
On 12/08/2019 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64
or overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners
have any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?


One issue is whether the plug that connects to the car is 7 pin or 13
pin. 13 pin may well be desireable as there are wires for lights,
reversing lights, constant and switched power.

It doesn't matter too much. For a caravan, it'll either be a 13-pin or
two 7-pins (12N and 12S) and you can use an adapter lead to plug one
into the other. For a trailer, it is normally only the 12N.

SteveW

On Monday, 12 August 2019 22:51:24 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
Chris Green wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring. Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.


Has that changed? Ive never seen anything other than multi-stranded used
although admittedly its more than a few years since I looked in a caravan.

I suspect Chris may have missed the 'caravan' reference in the subject!

On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.

Gas works out more expensive than hookup electricity. Diesel heating is
popular on boats.

Heating systems can be quite sophisticated, ours has a Hive like system you
can control/monitor via your phone, including the water heater. Some,
including ours, can even operate on gas while driving quite safely.

That is not recommended!

Cooking tends to be mainly gas although having a microwave is common. Some
cookers have 2 gas rings and one electric one for when mains is available.

Hmm, I've not seen an electric oven apart from on a static. Microwaves,
definitely. If running from batteries it does require a modest inverter
and at least 2 x 110A batteries. 4 would be the norm on a boat.

Id say most things, other than the high consumption devices, tend to run
of 12v - certainly in our case.

Solar panels are quite common.

Inverters are very current hungry. Do the sums for, say, 1kW at 12V and
think about the battery etc. People do use them but, if I need mains and
know I not going to have hook up, I take my generator.

Except few things take a constant 1kW. In the summer a solar panel can
keep up with a fridge power consumption. Some inverters are smart and
periodically sense a load. Ideal for fridges.

Easily portable generators tend to be a few 100 watts. How big is yours?

On 12/08/2019 22:48, Robin wrote:
On 12/08/2019 22:11, Chris Green wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring.Â* Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.


The regs don't permit class 1 solid copper in caravans.

I wasn't sure. I know boats are obliged to use multi-stranded cable. It
does make 90mm^2 cable pleasantly flexible!

Fredxx wrote:
On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.

Gas works out more expensive than hookup electricity. Diesel heating is
popular on boats.

Heating systems can be quite sophisticated, ours has a Hive like system you
can control/monitor via your phone, including the water heater. Some,
including ours, can even operate on gas while driving quite safely.

That is not recommended!


Who by? The systems are specifically designed to be for the purpose.

The systems are fully approved for the purpose, both in the UK and Europe.

They have sensors to cut off the supply if they detect an accident and to
detect breaks in the lines.

In larger vehicles, the normal heating from the engine would probably
struggle to keep the whole habitation area comfortable for some people in
cold weather.

Fredxx wrote:
On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

Virtually motorhome Ive looked at has a three way fridge, gas, 12v, 240v




Cooking tends to be mainly gas although having a microwave is common. Some
cookers have 2 gas rings and one electric one for when mains is available.

Hmm, I've not seen an electric oven apart from on a static.

I specifically said rings, not ovens.



Microwaves,
definitely. If running from batteries it does require a modest inverter
and at least 2 x 110A batteries. 4 would be the norm on a boat.

Weight is more of an issue in vehicles.


Id say most things, other than the high consumption devices, tend to run
of 12v - certainly in our case.

Solar panels are quite common.

Inverters are very current hungry. Do the sums for, say, 1kW at 12V and
think about the battery etc. People do use them but, if I need mains and
know I not going to have hook up, I take my generator.

Except few things take a constant 1kW. In the summer a solar panel can
keep up with a fridge power consumption. Some inverters are smart and
periodically sense a load. Ideal for fridges.

I was thinking more of microwaves. They seem to be the things people use
them for.
We dont. The main things we us the uWave for is jacket potatos and heating
milk for coffee etc. Things we can either forego or use a pan.

Easily portable generators tend to be a few 100 watts. How big is yours?


1kW. It runs off propane. I only carry it if I expect to need it.

On 13/08/2019 00:54, Brian Reay wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.

Gas works out more expensive than hookup electricity. Diesel heating is
popular on boats.

Heating systems can be quite sophisticated, ours has a Hive like system you
can control/monitor via your phone, including the water heater. Some,
including ours, can even operate on gas while driving quite safely.

That is not recommended!


Who by? The systems are specifically designed to be for the purpose.

The French for one. Ferries are another where they insist the bottle
itself is turned off.

The systems are fully approved for the purpose, both in the UK and Europe.

Then their claims are faulty.

They have sensors to cut off the supply if they detect an accident and to
detect breaks in the lines.

Much safer to simply turn of at the bottle. No risk of fractured lines.

In larger vehicles, the normal heating from the engine would probably
struggle to keep the whole habitation area comfortable for some people in
cold weather.

The engine efficiency should ensure more than enough hot water. If not
perhaps an exhaust heat exchanger? Or a bigger radiator/fan heater.

It happens that Fredxx formulated :
The engine efficiency should ensure more than enough hot water. If not
perhaps an exhaust heat exchanger?

The more efficient the engine, the less the waste heat is generated!

I have a very efficient BMW diesel engine, which only develops decent
heat when making good progress. Long warm up times and little waste
heat in traffic, means it is fitted with a 5Kw fuel burning heater -
like a miniature central heating boiler, burning diesel.

Or a bigger radiator/fan heater.

There is only so much waste heat available, take too much heat out, the
engine runs cooler, less efficient. Most motorhomes are derived from
vans, with a heater designed to only have to heat a small front cabin.

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:08:47 PM UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Brian Reay laid this down on his screen :
Virtually motorhome Ive looked at has a three way fridge, gas, 12v, 240v


I have seen gas/240v only, but the more desirable ones are the 3 way
fridges. They run most economically cost wise, on 240v.

240v and gas use a thermostat, the 12v does not - they run flat out
continuously, barely able to hold the temperature down.

Fredxx wrote:
On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:


Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.


********! Gas is the most common way of powering a fridge when €œoff grid€�.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Halmyre wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:08:47 PM UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.


Most caravanners swear by gas fridges. Sorry, let me rephrase that: most
caravanners swear AT gas fridges. Lying on the floor for twenty minutes
repeatedly pressing the piezo igniter and looking for the elusive blue
glow through the little window that indicates successful ignition.

Been there, done that (in the past). Modern fridges with electronic
ignition are much easier to use.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
Chris Green wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

The only thing I‘m pretty sure about is that you don‘t use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring. Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.

not if it's in conduit.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Halmyre wrote :
Most caravanners swear by gas fridges. Sorry, let me rephrase that: most
caravanners swear AT gas fridges. Lying on the floor for twenty minutes
repeatedly pressing the piezo igniter and looking for the elusive blue glow
through the little window that indicates successful ignition.

They have moved on since then, to electronic ignition, you just push a
button and hold it in until it ignites. If trying to run on gas, I make
sure to bleed all the air out first - turn a gas ring on, until that
burns steady, then light the fridge up.

I think running a fridge on 12V is only an option if it's already down to
temperature. This is on my elderly van, YMMV.

Agreed! Often the problem is poor install by the caravan manufacturers.
Heat from the fins at the back, needs to be disposed of quickly for
best efficiency, whether on gas, 240, or 12v. The builders ignore the
fridge manufacturers to add a deflector panel above the fins to funnel
the warmth out quickly - Heat gets trapped behind the fridge, despite
the vents. A simple cheap bit of alloy panel funnelling the warmed air
out, as advised in the fridge install instructions, makes a tremendous
difference.

I have even heard suggestions that its worth wile adding a small 12v
computer fan, worked via a stat, to the fins to improve the air flow in
really hot weather.

Tim+ pretended :
Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.


********! Gas is the most common way of powering a fridge when €œoff grid€�.

Correct!

Fredxx wrote:
On 13/08/2019 00:54, Brian Reay wrote:
Fredxx wrote:
On 12/08/2019 23:08, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.

Gas works out more expensive than hookup electricity. Diesel heating is
popular on boats.

Heating systems can be quite sophisticated, ours has a Hive like system you
can control/monitor via your phone, including the water heater. Some,
including ours, can even operate on gas while driving quite safely.

That is not recommended!


Who by? The systems are specifically designed to be for the purpose.

The French for one.

Nonsense. French motorhomes have the systems.


Ferries are another where they insist the bottle
itself is turned off.

You arent in the vehicle on the ferry.

The systems are fully approved for the purpose, both in the UK and Europe.

Then their claims are faulty.


Nonsense.



They have sensors to cut off the supply if they detect an accident and to
detect breaks in the lines.

Much safer to simply turn of at the bottle. No risk of fractured lines.



In larger vehicles, the normal heating from the engine would probably
struggle to keep the whole habitation area comfortable for some people in
cold weather.

The engine efficiency should ensure more than enough hot water. If not
perhaps an exhaust heat exchanger? Or a bigger radiator/fan heater.


Oh dear, you really dont have a clue.

The question is what GBH has been done to it that makes it in need of a
rewire in the first place?
From what I recall they tend to have inverters in the posher ones but this
only feeds certain outlets and has dire warnings about max load and devices
that need very good sine waves etc. A lot of lighting was low voltage on a
different circuit. There were also all sorts of switching choices about the
leisure battery or batteries and some use just big deep discharge lead acid
while others were more sophisticated with other types of battery. Some even
had wind generators and solar cells fitted. Its seems to me that you could
pimp up your grockle box with expensive add ons.
Brian

--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On 12/08/2019 19:46, ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a 230V
hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?


Dunno, but here's a start:
https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/commun...2-full-rewire/

Halmyre wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 11:08:47 PM UTC+1, Brian Reay wrote:
ARW wrote:
What is the norm on them these days?

A mixture of 12V from a leisure battery and 230V for when there is a
230V hook up. Inverters?


Caravans are IMHO just things that I normally queue behind on the A64 or
overtake if I get a chance.

This one is in Bristol and needs a rewire. So apart from hogging the
middle lane of the M5 on my way to get to Britol do any caravanners have
any tips on the best way to do caravan electrics?





Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.


Most caravanners swear by gas fridges. Sorry, let me rephrase that: most
caravanners swear AT gas fridges. Lying on the floor for twenty minutes
repeatedly pressing the piezo igniter and looking for the elusive blue
glow through the little window that indicates successful ignition.

The modern ones are automatic. Our previous motorhome (2011) you just
selected the power source and it did the rest. The current one (a few
months old) you can either select manually or put on auto and it switches
itself.



Can be useful when some idiot has been too free with the hose while
washing the caravan, and doused the electrics with water. Running it on
gas for a few hours drives off the moisture.

Ive read various stories of rusted €˜burners etc in fridges.

I think running a fridge on 12V is only an option if it's already down to
temperature. This is on my elderly van, YMMV.


Some say that is true of modern ones but....

As Im sure you know, the fridges need to be all but level. Our drive has a
slope. Just before our very first outing, I was trying to discover if the
drive was too steep for the fridge to work. I popped some water in the ice
cube tray in the freezer compartment. No joy, it wasnt noticeably chilled
after several hours. I forget about it when we set off but we had already
established our routine of : vents closed, windows locked, fridge to
battery.... etc and we drove for about 90 mins to the site. When we arrived
the water was frozen.

The fridges in motorhomes/caravans have improved dramatically. Conversely,
the ovens seem as basic as I remember from staying in a caravan 40 + years
ago. I suspect the reason is, in Europe, they rarely fit ovens, it is
mainly a UK special item.

Robin wrote:
On 12/08/2019 22:11, Chris Green wrote:
Tim+ wrote:

The only thing Im pretty sure about is that you dont use solid cored
cable for mains. It all has to be multi-stranded.

Not for mains 'permanent' wiring. Everything up to 20 amps (including
ring circuits) is single solid core twin and earth nowadays.


The regs don't permit class 1 solid copper in caravans.

You're probably correct, I hadn't really put my thinking hat on
properly when I said that. However I'd quite like to know which regs.
Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

--
Chris Green
·

Fredxx wrote:
Assuming they are like motorhomes:

Or in my case a boat


Lighting tends to be 12v LED these days.

Agreed.

Absolutely, just about all our boat lighting is now 12v LED, just a
couple of 'old favourite' mains lamps left which are used when we have
mains power.


Fridges 12 V when driving. Either mains or gas when actually pitched. We
favour mains, assuming it is available, but some say gas is more efficient.

Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.

We also have a standard (and thus cheap) mains fridge with an
inverter. The price of 12 volt fridges is ridiculous.


Heating varies. Gas / Electric is common. Either a mix or one, depending
what you select. There are also diesel heaters.

We have gas heating, used to be diesel but since we have gas for
cooking anyway it made sense to use it for heating as well with a
'room sealed' heating unit.



Cooking tends to be mainly gas although having a microwave is common. Some
cookers have 2 gas rings and one electric one for when mains is available.

Hmm, I've not seen an electric oven apart from on a static. Microwaves,
definitely. If running from batteries it does require a modest inverter
and at least 2 x 110A batteries. 4 would be the norm on a boat.

We have a little built-in gas cooker from Thetford (brand, not place),
it has a gas oven, grill and three burners. It works well.


Id say most things, other than the high consumption devices, tend to run
of 12v - certainly in our case.

Solar panels are quite common.

Inverters are very current hungry. Do the sums for, say, 1kW at 12V and
think about the battery etc. People do use them but, if I need mains and
know I not going to have hook up, I take my generator.

Except few things take a constant 1kW. In the summer a solar panel can
keep up with a fridge power consumption. Some inverters are smart and
periodically sense a load. Ideal for fridges.

We have three 260 watt (i.e. standard UK domestic panels) on our boat
and they handle the fridge and a few more bits and pieces quite
happily with (large) batteries to keep things going overnight. Thus,
in the summer we can be quite independent and not need mains power.


Easily portable generators tend to be a few 100 watts. How big is yours?

We hav a 2kW (or is it 2.5kW) generator converted to run on LPG
(which, as I said we already have on the boat) but we needed it so
little on the boat that it's now back home.

--
Chris Green
·

On 13/08/2019 08:13, Brian Reay wrote:
8

You arent in the vehicle on the ferry.

You aren't allowed in a caravan that is being towed in the UK.

Brian Reay submitted this idea :
Conversely,
the ovens seem as basic as I remember from staying in a caravan 40 + years
ago. I suspect the reason is, in Europe, they rarely fit ovens, it is
mainly a UK special item.

My caravan has an oven, I don't really think it can be improved on what
it is. Turn the setting know to the gas mark you want, push and hold,
press the electronic igniter button. What more does an oven need to
have? It came with a known fault - after it ignited, if you closed the
door, it would go out until warmed up and air circulating. Snipping a
small section of the door seal away, fixed that.

Gas toaster took forever to grill anything. I found the gas jet marked
with the correct size, had not been drilled the correct size, using
watchmakers drill bits I re-drilled it out to the correct size.

Chris Green wrote:

Is there actually stuff in BS7671 about caravan wiring?

From 17th ed (as I don't have 18th ed)

721.421.2

The wiring systems shall be installed using one or more of the following:

(i) Insulated single-core cables, with flexible class 5 conductors, in
non-metallic conduit.

(ii) Insulated single-core cables, with stranded class 2 conductors
(minimum of 7 strands), in non-metallic conduit.

(iii) Sheathed flexible cables.

dennis@home formulated the question :
You arent in the vehicle on the ferry.

You aren't allowed in a caravan that is being towed in the UK.

Brian was discussing motorhomes.

Andy Burns wrote:

721.421.2

Make that 721.521.2, the perils of non-copyable PDFs

Chris Green presented the following explanation :
Absolutely, just about all our boat lighting is now 12v LED, just a
couple of 'old favourite' mains lamps left which are used when we have
mains power.

My caravan has 16 recessed downlighters scattered around it, plus two
240v wall lights. The 16 were 10w halogen reflector lamps, which got
quite hot. I swapped them all out with LED reflector lamps, when Aldi
or Lidl did one of their special deals on them.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Tim+ pretended :
Gas is now frowned up. There are few gas fridges any more. There are 12V
fridges but they command a premium. I went for an efficient fridge and
an inverter.


********! Gas is the most common way of powering a fridge when “off grid”.

Correct!

Quite so. However I gather that some recent models won't actually
power on gas without having a 12 V control supply present.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

Harry Bloomfield, Esq. wrote:
Brian Reay submitted this idea :
Conversely,
the ovens seem as basic as I remember from staying in a caravan 40 + years
ago. I suspect the reason is, in Europe, they rarely fit ovens, it is
mainly a UK special item.

My caravan has an oven, I don't really think it can be improved on what
it is. Turn the setting know to the gas mark you want, push and hold,
press the electronic igniter button. What more does an oven need to
have?

We dont use ours much but, going by others comments and the odd time we
tried our previous one, the temp control tends to be poor as does the
insulation.


It came with a known fault - after it ignited, if you closed the
door, it would go out until warmed up and air circulating. Snipping a
small section of the door seal away, fixed that.

Gas toaster took forever to grill anything. I found the gas jet marked
with the correct size, had not been drilled the correct size, using
watchmakers drill bits I re-drilled it out to the correct size.

We carry a small, two slice, electric toaster.

That aside, grills are another thing people seem to complain about. Ours
seems ok.

Chris J Dixon formulated the question :
Quite so. However I gather that some recent models won't actually
power on gas without having a 12 V control supply present.

My fridge has to have the 12v to run on gas. That is the only way to
ignite it anyway.