Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

I recently did this. Dimmable bought from TLC. Not as bright as 50w
halogen, closer to the smaller ones - 35w? Light quality not quite as good
either (warm white). But overall, reasonably happy.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Sadly no low energy lamps ever seem to match the output of the larger
tungsten types, despite the claims.

--
*If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Monday, 25 February 2019 20:32:14 UTC, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

It;s difficult to judge such things I have a 6 way in the front room and a 3 way in the spare room. The cool ones do have a cold feel about the light and the warm white doesn't seem as warm as dimmed halogen.

My warm white LED GU10s do seem brighter but only when you look at them, when reflecting off walls and anything else they sem dimmer than the 35W I replaced them with.

My last lot came from screwfix standard dimmable in a pack of 5 or 6 LED GU10 warm white, they are OK I still prefer halogen for light quality, while the LEDs seem brighter they just seem monochomatic in light output, it's difficult to describe but knowing the spectral response of the human eye and that of sunlight I've been used to most of my life and for humans 1000s of years so it sort of works well. LED lights that don't produce that same spectral response and for me it noticable.

The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

My first set of dimmable LEDs GU10 dail from B&Q didnlt fit in my frontroom holders, becaus ethey had cooling fins that were a few mm high the GU10 pins could engage and click into the holder so were useless, but luckily they fited in the kitchen GU10 holders so weren't wasted.

So my advice would be to try a few out rather than expect to get the best via reviews or even personal recomendations, like marmite on toast I like very lightly toasted bread and a very thin coating of marmite, anyhting more and I hate the taste.
Of course someone my have more experience and find some makes or type of bulbs to be crap for whatever reason, but if you really care about the light it's worth going around byung a few bulbs as they will get better in the future , so if you find a bulb you're not keen on, then keep it as an emergency spare is what I do.

And another fact is we have a couple of light meters and depending whatv tyoe of light your measuring you have to set it to flourescant daylight or tungsten so it's more than just lumens or lux to worry about as represented by a level of brightness.






They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Cheers, T i m

On 26/02/2019 11:46, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 25 February 2019 20:32:14 UTC, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

It;s difficult to judge such things I have a 6 way in the front room and a 3 way in the spare room. The cool ones do have a cold feel about the light and the warm white doesn't seem as warm as dimmed halogen.

My warm white LED GU10s do seem brighter but only when you look at them, when reflecting off walls and anything else they sem dimmer than the 35W I replaced them with.

My last lot came from screwfix standard dimmable in a pack of 5 or 6 LED GU10 warm white, they are OK I still prefer halogen for light quality, while the LEDs seem brighter they just seem monochomatic in light output, it's difficult to describe but knowing the spectral response of the human eye and that of sunlight I've been used to most of my life and for humans 1000s of years so it sort of works well. LED lights that don't produce that same spectral response and for me it noticable.

The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

That's the buyer's choice. I have 120 degree dimmable led GU10s.

My first set of dimmable LEDs GU10 dail from B&Q didnlt fit in my frontroom holders, becaus ethey had cooling fins that were a few mm high the GU10 pins could engage and click into the holder so were useless, but luckily they fited in the kitchen GU10 holders so weren't wasted.

So my advice would be to try a few out rather than expect to get the best via reviews or even personal recomendations, like marmite on toast I like very lightly toasted bread and a very thin coating of marmite, anyhting more and I hate the taste.
Of course someone my have more experience and find some makes or type of bulbs to be crap for whatever reason, but if you really care about the light it's worth going around byung a few bulbs as they will get better in the future , so if you find a bulb you're not keen on, then keep it as an emergency spare is what I do.

And another fact is we have a couple of light meters and depending whatv tyoe of light your measuring you have to set it to flourescant daylight or tungsten so it's more than just lumens or lux to worry about as represented by a level of brightness.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Cheers, T i m



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Check that you will be above the minimum wattage for the dimmer. I have
done this and then the dimmer didn't work as it had a 40 - 200 watt range
(or similar)

On 26/02/2019 12:20, DerbyBorn wrote:


Check that you will be above the minimum wattage for the dimmer. I have
done this and then the dimmer didn't work as it had a 40 - 200 watt range
(or similar)


I have not found sany LED that works *properly* with a dimnmer designed
for incandescent. Also many that claim to dim, dont, very well, and
flicker badly.

My advice is spend a little extra time and money testing a given brand
and stick to it if it works for you.


--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 25/02/2019 20:32, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?


IMLE you may well not get the expected life if the fitting encloses the
lamp with little or no ventilation. They get too hot. But I'm willing
to swallow that for the savings on consumption.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 26/02/19 10:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

I recently did this. Dimmable bought from TLC. Not as bright as 50w
halogen, closer to the smaller ones - 35w? Light quality not quite as good
either (warm white). But overall, reasonably happy.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Sadly no low energy lamps ever seem to match the output of the larger
tungsten types, despite the claims.

+1

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the effective angle of
illumination is often much less with a led, too. Also, despite TH lamps
having a very bright filament, it seems to me that leds can "outglare"
them with their often very bright pinpoints of light. However, I
recently bought some GU10 leds which had the front glass frosted. These
provide a much nicer light without glare.

--

Jeff

On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 12:15:51 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 11:46, whisky-dave wrote:
On Monday, 25 February 2019 20:32:14 UTC, T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

It;s difficult to judge such things I have a 6 way in the front room and a 3 way in the spare room. The cool ones do have a cold feel about the light and the warm white doesn't seem as warm as dimmed halogen.

My warm white LED GU10s do seem brighter but only when you look at them, when reflecting off walls and anything else they sem dimmer than the 35W I replaced them with.

My last lot came from screwfix standard dimmable in a pack of 5 or 6 LED GU10 warm white, they are OK I still prefer halogen for light quality, while the LEDs seem brighter they just seem monochomatic in light output, it's difficult to describe but knowing the spectral response of the human eye and that of sunlight I've been used to most of my life and for humans 1000s of years so it sort of works well. LED lights that don't produce that same spectral response and for me it noticable.

The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

That's the buyer's choice. I have 120 degree dimmable led GU10s.
I've seen 110 which seemd very dim in B&Q and the nore common 36.

can you show me these choices they seem few and far between, and halegon have always seeme to be much greater than 120 deg.

I'd like to see 270 or 360 like the old tungsten .

But it;s true than beam angle is anothe rthing to consider when buying GU10..


My first set of dimmable LEDs GU10 dail from B&Q didnlt fit in my frontroom holders, becaus ethey had cooling fins that were a few mm high the GU10 pins could engage and click into the holder so were useless, but luckily they fited in the kitchen GU10 holders so weren't wasted.

So my advice would be to try a few out rather than expect to get the best via reviews or even personal recomendations, like marmite on toast I like very lightly toasted bread and a very thin coating of marmite, anyhting more and I hate the taste.
Of course someone my have more experience and find some makes or type of bulbs to be crap for whatever reason, but if you really care about the light it's worth going around byung a few bulbs as they will get better in the future , so if you find a bulb you're not keen on, then keep it as an emergency spare is what I do.

And another fact is we have a couple of light meters and depending whatv tyoe of light your measuring you have to set it to flourescant daylight or tungsten so it's more than just lumens or lux to worry about as represented by a level of brightness.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Cheers, T i m



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 26/02/2019 13:13, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 12:15:51 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 11:46, whisky-dave wrote:


The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

That's the buyer's choice. I have 120 degree dimmable led GU10s.
I've seen 110 which seemd very dim in B&Q and the nore common 36.

can you show me these choices they seem few and far between,

https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=led%20gu10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...10++120%C2%B0+


and halegon have always seeme to be much greater than 120 deg.

then please in turn show me an example

I'd like to see 270 or 360 like the old tungsten .


in a GU10?????



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 14:15:50 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 13:13, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 12:15:51 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 11:46, whisky-dave wrote:


The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

That's the buyer's choice. I have 120 degree dimmable led GU10s.
I've seen 110 which seemd very dim in B&Q and the nore common 36.

can you show me these choices they seem few and far between,

https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=led%20gu10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...10++120%C2%B0+

can you find any that are dimmable and in stock ?

Most of those arenlt dimmable are out of stock or will no longer be stocked, and I don't want to order a pack of 10 to try out.

And it;s not me that wants them it's T i m .

I'm sure he can order from CPC but tell him to hurry up and do it before Brexit.

On 26/02/2019 15:35, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 14:15:50 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 13:13, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 12:15:51 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 11:46, whisky-dave wrote:


The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

That's the buyer's choice. I have 120 degree dimmable led GU10s.
I've seen 110 which seemd very dim in B&Q and the nore common 36.

can you show me these choices they seem few and far between,

https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=led%20gu10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...10++120%C2%B0+

can you find any that are dimmable and in stock ?

yes. But if you can't cope with those sites you'll need to find another
slave

Most of those arenlt dimmable are out of stock or will no longer be stocked, and I don't want to order a pack of 10 to try out.

And it;s not me that wants them it's T i m .


It's you who asked to be shown

I'm sure he can order from CPC but tell him to hurry up and do it before Brexit.




I take it you aren't going to show me these 270 degree GU10s?


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 16:02:32 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 15:35, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 14:15:50 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 13:13, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 12:15:51 UTC, Robin wrote:
On 26/02/2019 11:46, whisky-dave wrote:


The LEDs GU10s seem to be a narrow angle in general compared to halogen verions so you get more of a spotlike effect which again can alter your perception of brightness.

That's the buyer's choice. I have 120 degree dimmable led GU10s.
I've seen 110 which seemd very dim in B&Q and the nore common 36.

can you show me these choices they seem few and far between,

https://cpc.farnell.com/search?st=led%20gu10

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb...10++120%C2%B0+

can you find any that are dimmable and in stock ?

yes. But if you can't cope with those sites you'll need to find another
slave

What sort of ****ing idiot are you ?

T i m is asking for recomendations for dimmable GU10 LED bulbs.

I have NEVER bought a GU10 bulb from CPC not 1 or a pack of 10.
Not dimmable or dimmable.
So I can't recomend those things I haven't seen or used can I.




Most of those arenlt dimmable are out of stock or will no longer be stocked, and I don't want to order a pack of 10 to try out.

And it;s not me that wants them it's T i m .


It's you who asked to be shown

I couldn't careless it;s T i m that asking not me.
If you can't understand what T i m wants then ask him.


I'm sure he can order from CPC but tell him to hurry up and do it before Brexit.




I take it you aren't going to show me these 270 degree GU10s?

Whi said I knew where they were as I've never seen them.
if I had I would have bought some.

That;s one of the things yuo have to accept when going to GU10 my previous were standard beynet mount 60W candel type bulbs in an older style lighting stsyem from the late 70s early 80s brown wood chandelier they had what I;d estimate at about 270 as the light didn;t go through the base so it was 360.

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
T i m Wrote in message:
Hi all,We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has
3 x50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one
ofthe dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

Consequently, I reckon it's best to try and get the right
brightness and colour quality that you want from the
outset and not rely on a dimmer to adjust it afterwards.

It isnt always that simple. What I prefer in the hottest
weather is quite different to the coldest weather.

I originally thought that that was due to the 150W PAR38s
I used to use in the summer, but still get the same effect
now with the Hues which arent even warm to the touch.

On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 05:19:28 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


FLUSH troll****

Darn! ...and this innocent little thread was Rot-free, so far!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I have not found sany LED that works *properly* with a dimnmer designed
for incandescent.

Depends on the dimmer design. I've got some MK grid dimmers from the 80s
which work fine with dimmable LEDs. And other newer dimmers which don't.

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DerbyBorn writes:

Check that you will be above the minimum wattage for the dimmer. I have
done this and then the dimmer didn't work as it had a 40 - 200 watt range
(or similar)

I think he said he was going to replace the dimmer. But yes, I
forgot this and one of the LED bulbs exploded. Stank out the
kitchen for ages afterwards

--
Jón Fairbairn

On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 18:19:41 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
T i m Wrote in message:
Hi all,We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has
3 x50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one
ofthe dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the light though and perhaps in the future they';l have those that can truely simiulate a tungsten bulb but I;ve yet to see that srtting on any menu.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 12:51:15 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 26/02/19 10:56, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
T i m wrote:
Hi all,

We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently has 3 x
50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one of
the dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another thread.

However, I've never used / had a GU10 fitting or even changed a lamp
(thst I remember) and certainly don't therefore have any feel for just
how bright they may be (ITRW) in comparison with the supposed
watt-equavalent halogen.

I recently did this. Dimmable bought from TLC. Not as bright as 50w
halogen, closer to the smaller ones - 35w? Light quality not quite as good
either (warm white). But overall, reasonably happy.

They also seem to range in price considerably and I'm not sure how
likely that would reflect quality / reliability etc?

So, could anyone personally recommend a 'good' (VFM / reliability /
light level and dimmable) LED GU10 lamp please?

I think we would want 'warm white' (it's in a bedroom) but ideally at
least as much light as seen from a (well 3x) 50W halogen lamp please
(if that's possible etc).

Sadly no low energy lamps ever seem to match the output of the larger
tungsten types, despite the claims.

+1

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the effective angle of
illumination is often much less with a led, too. Also, despite TH lamps
having a very bright filament, it seems to me that leds can "outglare"
them with their often very bright pinpoints of light. However, I
recently bought some GU10 leds which had the front glass frosted. These
provide a much nicer light without glare.

Thanks for the replies guys, this is the sort of 'real world' feedback
I was hoping for.

I'm wondering now if the starting point was a good one, eg this 3 way
fitting with GU10 lamps? [1] Ok, the user (a young 'goth' g) liked
it being provided for her (along with the black walls, all part of the
surprise) but none of that makes good lighting 'easy', and hence why I
was aware of not wanting to make the room any darker whilst trying to
offer more control of the light level whilst saving them energy.

Maybe I'll run the idea of changing the fitting to something more
suited to the more powerful LED lamps available easier in the bigger
bases (BS / ES) but retaining the idea of providing the remoteable
dimming function to give her something to play with.

If *I* had been party to choosing the light fitting I think I would
have considered the availability of lamps and generally at the cost of
any ideal 'style' (I'm not a form over function type of guy). ;-)

As a aside, the heat given off by the 150W of halogen wasn't such an
issue when it's cold but would be as the temperatures start to go up
.... and because it's a bit dark in there (black walls and bed sheets
etc) you do still often need the lights on in there, even when it's
fairly light outside (or sooner than you might if the walls where
white etc).

It's nearly one of those things where you find the lamp and then work
back to the fitting! ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Excluding finding / trying the frosted LED's etc.

On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 11:50:14 UTC, T i m wrote:


Thanks for the replies guys, this is the sort of 'real world' feedback
I was hoping for.

I'm wondering now if the starting point was a good one, eg this 3 way
fitting with GU10 lamps? [1] Ok, the user (a young 'goth' g) liked
it being provided for her (along with the black walls, all part of the
surprise) but none of that makes good lighting 'easy',

Goths don't like bright lighgting, you'd be better off with candles but for safety those arcitechal fliment LEDs might be better or even a few UV bulbs.
There were 3 types of Goth Perky, mopey and cyber goths.





and hence why I
was aware of not wanting to make the room any darker whilst trying to
offer more control of the light level whilst saving them energy.

But for goths a room can't be made dark enough ;-)


Maybe I'll run the idea of changing the fitting to something more
suited to the more powerful LED lamps available easier in the bigger
bases (BS / ES) but retaining the idea of providing the remoteable
dimming function to give her something to play with.

Nice idea, she can practice the two step and the tree waving in the wind dance.


If *I* had been party to choosing the light fitting I think I would
have considered the availability of lamps and generally at the cost of
any ideal 'style' (I'm not a form over function type of guy). ;-)

But goths are ;-)


As a aside, the heat given off by the 150W of halogen wasn't such an
issue when it's cold but would be as the temperatures start to go up
... and because it's a bit dark in there (black walls and bed sheets
etc) you do still often need the lights on in there, even when it's
fairly light outside (or sooner than you might if the walls where
white etc).

I knew a goth that slept in a coffin.


It's nearly one of those things where you find the lamp and then work
back to the fitting! ;-)

TBH I'm not sure LEDs are very Goth :-D


Cheers, T i m

[1] Excluding finding / trying the frosted LED's etc.

On 27/02/2019 13:23, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 11:50:14 UTC, T i m wrote:


Thanks for the replies guys, this is the sort of 'real world' feedback
I was hoping for.

I'm wondering now if the starting point was a good one, eg this 3 way
fitting with GU10 lamps? [1] Ok, the user (a young 'goth' g) liked
it being provided for her (along with the black walls, all part of the
surprise) but none of that makes good lighting 'easy',

Goths don't like bright lighgting, you'd be better off with candles but for safety those arcitechal fliment LEDs might be better or even a few UV bulbs.
There were 3 types of Goth Perky, mopey and cyber goths.





and hence why I
was aware of not wanting to make the room any darker whilst trying to
offer more control of the light level whilst saving them energy.

But for goths a room can't be made dark enough ;-)


Maybe I'll run the idea of changing the fitting to something more
suited to the more powerful LED lamps available easier in the bigger
bases (BS / ES) but retaining the idea of providing the remoteable
dimming function to give her something to play with.

Nice idea, she can practice the two step and the tree waving in the wind dance.


If *I* had been party to choosing the light fitting I think I would
have considered the availability of lamps and generally at the cost of
any ideal 'style' (I'm not a form over function type of guy). ;-)

But goths are ;-)


As a aside, the heat given off by the 150W of halogen wasn't such an
issue when it's cold but would be as the temperatures start to go up
... and because it's a bit dark in there (black walls and bed sheets
etc) you do still often need the lights on in there, even when it's
fairly light outside (or sooner than you might if the walls where
white etc).

I knew a goth that slept in a coffin.

Long ago I spent a weekend with a friend in a rented castle on the
Scottish borders. There were about 150 of us and various events going
on. The organiser, who was also a fire-eater, was a goth and the
caretaker was quite surprised to find him sleeping in a coffin in the
gun room!

SteveW

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 18:19:41 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
T i m Wrote in message:
Hi all,We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently
has
3 x50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one
ofthe dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another
thread.

Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the
light though

So they dont just get a dimmer. And you are free to set a whole series of
intensity
and color settings so the color changes automatically as it dims. And can
name
them too so you can have scenes with to intensity and white you want too.

and perhaps in the future they';l have those that can truely simiulate
a tungsten bulb but I;ve yet to see that srtting on any menu.

But trivial to add those as scenes. Pre programmed by someone else too.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the
light though

I didn't know you could make the light get redder as it gets dimmer.
Obviously anything is possible because it's all under software control, but
I didn't know the software (eg the Android app) for Philips Hue bulbs could
be programmed to change the colour.

I can't say I've been too worried that the light doesn't get redder as it
dims, like a tungsten bulb does. I have a variety of colours according to
mood etc (white for reading during the day to supplement daylight, warm
white for reading in the evening, "tropical sunset" for reading near bedtime
when I want to cut out blue light. Having set the colour, I just then change
the brightness as required. But it's nice to know that redder-as-it-dims (to
mimic tungsten) is possible if the need should ever arise.

One thing that I'm always surprised at with LED bulbs used as room lights is
how bright the dimmest setting is - it's probably too bright to use as a
night light so you can see your way to the loo at night without the light
keeping you awake as you try to get to sleep.

Given that LEDs are usually dimmed by altering the mark:space ratio of a
constant-frequency square wave, so the light is turned on for a
progressively shorter proportion of each cycler, it should be possible to
turn the LED on for less time to make it even dimmer than the present
dimmest setting.


I've always wondered how TV studios manage to dim the lights so faint
objects are visible (Tomorrow's World: "we'll just dim the studio lights so
you can see this oscilloscope trace") without them going red. I know they
leave a few lights on full brightness and kill the majority, so there aren't
any lamps on partial brightness, but even so, I'd have thought that as they
are dimming "the majority" you'd see them go a reddish orange.

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
...
On 27/02/2019 13:23, whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 11:50:14 UTC, T i m wrote:


Thanks for the replies guys, this is the sort of 'real world' feedback
I was hoping for.

I'm wondering now if the starting point was a good one, eg this 3 way
fitting with GU10 lamps? [1] Ok, the user (a young 'goth' g) liked
it being provided for her (along with the black walls, all part of the
surprise) but none of that makes good lighting 'easy',

Goths don't like bright lighgting, you'd be better off with candles but
for safety those arcitechal fliment LEDs might be better or even a few
UV bulbs.
There were 3 types of Goth Perky, mopey and cyber goths.





and hence why I
was aware of not wanting to make the room any darker whilst trying to
offer more control of the light level whilst saving them energy.

But for goths a room can't be made dark enough ;-)


Maybe I'll run the idea of changing the fitting to something more
suited to the more powerful LED lamps available easier in the bigger
bases (BS / ES) but retaining the idea of providing the remoteable
dimming function to give her something to play with.

Nice idea, she can practice the two step and the tree waving in the wind
dance.


If *I* had been party to choosing the light fitting I think I would
have considered the availability of lamps and generally at the cost of
any ideal 'style' (I'm not a form over function type of guy). ;-)

But goths are ;-)


As a aside, the heat given off by the 150W of halogen wasn't such an
issue when it's cold but would be as the temperatures start to go up
... and because it's a bit dark in there (black walls and bed sheets
etc) you do still often need the lights on in there, even when it's
fairly light outside (or sooner than you might if the walls where
white etc).

I knew a goth that slept in a coffin.

Long ago I spent a weekend with a friend in a rented castle on the
Scottish borders. There were about 150 of us and various events going on.
The organiser, who was also a fire-eater, was a goth and the caretaker was
quite surprised to find him sleeping in a coffin in the gun room!

And the corpse likely wasnt too impressed either.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I knew a goth that slept in a coffin.

Long ago I spent a weekend with a friend in a rented castle on the
Scottish borders. There were about 150 of us and various events going on.
The organiser, who was also a fire-eater, was a goth and the caretaker
was quite surprised to find him sleeping in a coffin in the gun room!

And the corpse likely wasnt too impressed either.

Whitby at Goth Weekend is always a good place to see the weird and the
wonderful. Lots of men in long black, red-lined cloaks, and women in
crinolines, with deathly pale makeup.

But the funniest thing I saw was in a hearse that was parked on the clifftop
near the Captain Cook monument and the whalebone arch. Yes, it was a very
OTT hearse - obviously a Goth's and not just a normal undertaker's. But
there was more. Suddenly there was a muffled belly-laugh from inside, the
coffin-lid opened and a skeleton sat up, looked around quizzically, lay back
down and the lid closed again. He'd obviously got it on a timer to do this
everyone so often to entertain passers-by while he was in town parading with
his missus.

"NY" wrote in message
o.uk...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of
the light though

I didn't know you could make the light get redder as it gets dimmer.

It can be done with IFTTT but most of the time its actually better
to have some scenes with a brightness and color temperature
thats appropriate so you can name those and tell siri to use those
as appropriate, or have them set by time of day or by a particular
button on the batteryless remote switch. Using the white ambience
bulbs that can set any color temp and intensity you like.

Obviously anything is possible because it's all under software control,
but I didn't know the software (eg the Android app) for Philips Hue bulbs
could be programmed to change the colour.

Yes they can and there are lots of apps that do more than the Philips one
too.

I can't say I've been too worried that the light doesn't get redder as it
dims, like a tungsten bulb does. I have a variety of colours according to
mood etc (white for reading during the day to supplement daylight, warm
white for reading in the evening, "tropical sunset" for reading near
bedtime when I want to cut out blue light. Having set the colour, I just
then change the brightness as required. But it's nice to know that
redder-as-it-dims (to mimic tungsten) is possible if the need should ever
arise.

I used to hate the warm white that I got with the original starter kit
and put those where it didnt matter like the least used rooms and
the bedroom, I dont read in bed anymore. But now I dont even
notice the color temp in those rooms anymore.

One thing that I'm always surprised at with LED bulbs used as room lights
is how bright the dimmest setting is - it's probably too bright to use as
a night light so you can see your way to the loo at night without the
light keeping you awake as you try to get to sleep.

Thats not true of the Hue bulbs.

Given that LEDs are usually dimmed by altering the mark:space ratio of a
constant-frequency square wave, so the light is turned on for a
progressively shorter proportion of each cycler,

Thats not true of all dimmers.

it should be possible to turn the LED on for less time to make it even
dimmer than the present dimmest setting.

I've always wondered how TV studios manage to dim the lights so faint
objects are visible (Tomorrow's World: "we'll just dim the studio lights
so you can see this oscilloscope trace") without them going red. I know
they leave a few lights on full brightness and kill the majority, so there
aren't any lamps on partial brightness, but even so, I'd have thought that
as they are dimming "the majority" you'd see them go a reddish orange.

Likely the Dave that used to work for the BBC and ITV knows what they did.

I thought they did it with denser filters rather than electronic dimming.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 06:08:58 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



And the corpse

The thing that YOU will very soon be, you despicable 85-year-old senile
pest! BG

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 05:25:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


So they don¢t just get a dimmer.

They can't get dimmer than you are, senile Ozzietard!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I knew a goth that slept in a coffin.

Long ago I spent a weekend with a friend in a rented castle on the
Scottish borders. There were about 150 of us and various events going
on. The organiser, who was also a fire-eater, was a goth and the
caretaker was quite surprised to find him sleeping in a coffin in the
gun room!

And the corpse likely wasnt too impressed either.

Whitby at Goth Weekend is always a good place to see the weird and the
wonderful. Lots of men in long black, red-lined cloaks, and women in
crinolines, with deathly pale makeup.

But the funniest thing I saw was in a hearse that was parked on the
clifftop near the Captain Cook monument and the whalebone arch. Yes, it
was a very OTT hearse - obviously a Goth's and not just a normal
undertaker's. But there was more. Suddenly there was a muffled belly-laugh
from inside, the coffin-lid opened and a skeleton sat up, looked around
quizzically, lay back down and the lid closed again. He'd obviously got it
on a timer to do this everyone so often to entertain passers-by while he
was in town parading with his missus.

Wonder what the reaction of little kids out on their own would be.

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:54:43 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


quizzically, lay back down and the lid closed again. He'd obviously got it
on a timer to do this everyone so often to entertain passers-by while he
was in town parading with his missus.

Wonder what the reaction of little kids out on their own would be.

Wonder what all this idiotic senile drivel got to do with a group like
uk.d-i-y! tsk


--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2019 07:14:53 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



I thought

Don't, senile asshole! You'll only produce yet more senile bull****!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 18:33:32 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 18:19:41 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Tim+" wrote in message
...
T i m Wrote in message:
Hi all,We have one of those 3 lamp ceiling spotlights that currently
has
3 x50W halogen lamps in it that I would like to change to LED and one
ofthe dimmer switches that was previously recommended in another
thread.

Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the
light though

So they dont just get a dimmer. And you are free to set a whole series of
intensity
and color settings so the color changes automatically as it dims. And can
name
them too so you can have scenes with to intensity and white you want too.

If yuo like fiddling but for most turning down the brightness also affect the colour temperature , a similar thing happens with the sun , you get a sunset.
For an LED to simulate that you'd have to set a preset, and then decide just how much and for how long, some of us have more interesting things to do.

we have LED lighting in our new lab, sounds great until you use it. Auto brightness too. Looks good but as yet I'm not convinced it's a good idea.


and perhaps in the future they';l have those that can truely simiulate
a tungsten bulb but I;ve yet to see that srtting on any menu.

But trivial to add those as scenes. Pre programmed by someone else too.

Yeah great but at what price and cost or usability.
How are those auto-piloted planes coming on and the driverless cars ?

On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 18:48:12 UTC, NY wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
Do bear in mind that the quality of light from a dimmed LED is
completely different from a tungsten bulb. They don't get
"warmer" as they dim.

They can do with the best designs like the Philips Hues.

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the
light though

I didn't know you could make the light get redder as it gets dimmer.
Obviously anything is possible because it's all under software control, but
I didn't know the software (eg the Android app) for Philips Hue bulbs could
be programmed to change the colour.

I can't say I've been too worried that the light doesn't get redder as it
dims, like a tungsten bulb does.

It;s not a worry more of a physical fact of life humans and animals have experienced since birth.

I have a variety of colours according to
mood etc (white for reading during the day to supplement daylight, warm
white for reading in the evening, "tropical sunset" for reading near bedtime
when I want to cut out blue light.

But ask yuorself why yuo;d want to do that.

Having set the colour, I just then change
the brightness as required. But it's nice to know that redder-as-it-dims (to
mimic tungsten) is possible if the need should ever arise.

If you don't know the reason for it then you won't change anything.


One thing that I'm always surprised at with LED bulbs used as room lights is
how bright the dimmest setting is -

On my dimmer there's a preset to adjust the minium level not that I:ve played with it much, but will do as the dimmest settign isn't as dim as I'd like, but if I make it dimmer the full brightness isn;t as bright as I;d like, for times when I drop something small on the floor and can't find it.



Given that LEDs are usually dimmed by altering the mark:space ratio of a
constant-frequency square wave, so the light is turned on for a
progressively shorter proportion of each cycler, it should be possible to
turn the LED on for less time to make it even dimmer than the present
dimmest setting.

It is but LEDs being diodes means they have a cut off point where they just don't come on at smaal mark ratios of less than about 5%.



I've always wondered how TV studios manage to dim the lights so faint
objects are visible (Tomorrow's World: "we'll just dim the studio lights so
you can see this oscilloscope trace") without them going red. I know they
leave a few lights on full brightness and kill the majority, so there aren't
any lamps on partial brightness, but even so, I'd have thought that as they
are dimming "the majority" you'd see them go a reddish orange.

Don;t forget that the cameras have AWB (average white balance, which has nothing to do with Harry posts) also camera also have a differnt spectral response to humans eyes too.

On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 19:55:06 UTC, NY wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
I knew a goth that slept in a coffin.

Long ago I spent a weekend with a friend in a rented castle on the
Scottish borders. There were about 150 of us and various events going on.
The organiser, who was also a fire-eater, was a goth and the caretaker
was quite surprised to find him sleeping in a coffin in the gun room!

And the corpse likely wasnt too impressed either.

Whitby at Goth Weekend is always a good place to see the weird and the
wonderful. Lots of men in long black, red-lined cloaks, and women in
crinolines, with deathly pale makeup.

There are two Whitby Goth Weekends one around April and another in october and there's a vampire society one too and some get the two confused. Not been myself but I have friends that have gone.
Goths and vampires are not the same, but like preists they do tend to dress in black a lot of the time.


But the funniest thing I saw was in a hearse that was parked on the clifftop
near the Captain Cook monument and the whalebone arch. Yes, it was a very
OTT hearse - obviously a Goth's and not just a normal undertaker's. But
there was more. Suddenly there was a muffled belly-laugh from inside, the
coffin-lid opened and a skeleton sat up, looked around quizzically, lay back
down and the lid closed again. He'd obviously got it on a timer to do this
everyone so often to entertain passers-by while he was in town parading with
his missus.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
One thing that I'm always surprised at with LED bulbs used as room lights
is how bright the dimmest setting is - it's probably too bright to use as
a night light so you can see your way to the loo at night without the
light keeping you awake as you try to get to sleep.

Thats not true of the Hue bulbs.

Actually I have seen this with Hue bulbs - both the fixed-colour and the
colour bulbs. I suppose it's a matter of personal preference how dim you
like the dimmest setting to be, but the dimmest that I have seen with Hue is
still fairly bright.

Given that LEDs are usually dimmed by altering the mark:space ratio of a
constant-frequency square wave, so the light is turned on for a
progressively shorter proportion of each cycler,

Thats not true of all dimmers.

Ah, do some of them simply reduce the current, as you would with tungsten -
though with more complicated electronics?

On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 11:06:47 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the light though and perhaps in the future they';l have those that can truely simiulate a tungsten bulb but I;ve yet to see that srtting on any menu.

Philips 'Warm Glow' bulbs (not hue-enabled) aim to simulate the tungsten dimming profile:

https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/c...e-led-lighting

On 28/02/2019 13:20, NY wrote:
"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
One thing that I'm always surprised at with LED bulbs used as room
lights is how bright the dimmest setting is - it's probably too
bright to use as a night light so you can see your way to the loo at
night without the light keeping you awake as you try to get to sleep.

Thats not true of the Hue bulbs.

Actually I have seen this with Hue bulbs - both the fixed-colour and the
colour bulbs. I suppose it's a matter of personal preference how dim you
like the dimmest setting to be, but the dimmest that I have seen with
Hue is still fairly bright.

Given that LEDs are usually dimmed by altering the mark:space ratio
of a constant-frequency square wave, so the light is turned on for a
progressively shorter proportion of each cycler,

Thats not true of all dimmers.

Ah, do some of them simply reduce the current, as you would with
tungsten - though with more complicated electronics?

PWM does reduce the average current, they may even have a smoothing
capacitor.
They don't need the smoothing capacitor if they chop the supply fast
enough so you can't see the flicker.
I usually use a few kHz when dimming LEDs.

On 28/02/2019 13:39, Mathew Newton wrote:
On Wednesday, 27 February 2019 11:06:47 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:

No like some users they just get dimmer. You can change the colour of the light though and perhaps in the future they';l have those that can truely simiulate a tungsten bulb but I;ve yet to see that srtting on any menu.

Philips 'Warm Glow' bulbs (not hue-enabled) aim to simulate the tungsten dimming profile:

https://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/c...e-led-lighting


And they do - I have a set. They are awesome. Pity they don't yet make
those in more form factors.

--
Email does not work

In article ,
NY wrote:
Given that LEDs are usually dimmed by altering the mark:space ratio of a
constant-frequency square wave, so the light is turned on for a
progressively shorter proportion of each cycler,

That‘s not true of all dimmers.

Ah, do some of them simply reduce the current, as you would with
tungsten - though with more complicated electronics?

A normal tungsten dimmer works by altering the shape of the AC waveform -
so not so different to dimming an AC driven LED.

--
*To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 28 February 2019 14:31:07 UTC, Tim Watts wrote:

And they do - I have a set. They are awesome.

That's good to hear; I was wondering how well they work in practice.

Pity they don't yet make
those in more form factors.

Yes, and it is a shame that they don't appear to do them in the Hue range too. (As the thread discusses there are colour-temp-changing Hue bulbs but I don't believe they can change automatically with dimmer level).