In article ,
Adam Aglionby wrote:
Astronomers are one group who don`t like LED streetlights, LPS emits on
2 very narrow bands close together, easy to put a notch filter on
telescope and lose all the orange glow, not possible with white LED.

Original sodium was pretty narrow spectrum - but high pressure rather
better. And that is a bit old hat - lots of lighting went HID, before LED.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

Why?

To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to report
that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped working.

Do you get your fittings and tubes from the very cheapest on Ebay?

you really are dim aren't you.

How many times have I said we can't order from ebay ?
Our finance department has banned us from ordering via ebay.

How many times do you need this explaining ?




What makes you think cheap LEDs will last any longer?

They won't those (mostly) from china are crap even those that give warrenties of 50,000 hours.

We brought ours from farnell or rather onecall.

unlike you who uses ASDA for our electrical stuff.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

Why?

To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.

Do you get your fittings and tubes from the very cheapest on Ebay?

you really are dim aren't you.

How many times have I said we can't order from ebay ?
Our finance department has banned us from ordering via ebay.

How many times do you need this explaining ?

Right. Just wondered where you got rubbish that failed so often?
Why not buy decent makes?

What makes you think cheap LEDs will last any longer?

They won't those (mostly) from china are crap even those that give
warrenties of 50,000 hours.

Ah. Right.

We brought ours from farnell or rather onecall.

Most would tend to buy that sort of thing from a decent local electrical
wholesaler. But then I'd expect a uni to have a proper maintenance sparkie
for such things. Not leave it to the unqulaified. Do the clerical staff
change their tubes too?

unlike you who uses ASDA for our electrical stuff.

If I bought your stuff I'd get decent makes which lasted.

--
*Born free...Taxed to death.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 14:57:46 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

Why?

To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.

Do you get your fittings and tubes from the very cheapest on Ebay?

you really are dim aren't you.

How many times have I said we can't order from ebay ?
Our finance department has banned us from ordering via ebay.

How many times do you need this explaining ?

Right. Just wondered where you got rubbish that failed so often?

What rubbish ones that fails so often, you're the one that keeps replacing bulbs and triacs not me.

you mean the two or three 35w halogen ones that have blown since 2006/7
I wouldnlt say they keep blowing.






Why not buy decent makes?

I do, why don't you, I do not think ASDA make decent stuff.
Their own made stuff is pretty crap well the food is. I've only been in asda once thios year to buy toothbrush heads as they were on offer.



What makes you think cheap LEDs will last any longer?

They won't those (mostly) from china are crap even those that give
warrenties of 50,000 hours.

Ah. Right.
See even you can leanr stuff, it might take you longer.


We brought ours from farnell or rather onecall.

Most would tend to buy that sort of thing from a decent local electrical
wholesaler.

We have to go through one of our approved sellers not a mate who owns or works in a local shop down the road.

But i a shop can supply them cheaper and they are willing to wait to be paid on account and up to 3 months late by the college then fine give me some suppliers and I'll forward on their details.




But then I'd expect a uni to have a proper maintenance sparkie
for such things.

We do. But it isn't up to them to finance such a thing, they will replace blown floursecent tubes within a week or so of reporting them.
Maintaince is what it is, not new installs which require a differnt route.
When we had foil put up on the windows it was an extrenal company mainatince could'lt so it because it;s classed as a new install.

It's like employing a window cleaner to install double glazing it doesn't work like that. Of course a DIYer could do either.



Not leave it to the unqulaified. Do the clerical staff
change their tubes too?

No one is allowed to we must get maintaince in to do it, they also keep spare tubes and that way it doesn;t come of the teaching budget.

farnell no longer stock the ones we tried I brought 4 for one office.

Rapid do them now.

https://www.rapidonline.com/Electric...g-Tubes-518335

I could order the 80 tubes needed but last I checked that came to £3k and our teachiogn credit card as a limit of £500 and a monthl;y cap of £2000. I don't think the teaching budget would like that. It should come from the Green Mary
which is a college run thing to push for savings on things like electricity..



unlike you who uses ASDA for our electrical stuff.

If I bought your stuff I'd get decent makes which lasted.

I do both at home and at work which is why we don;t use ebay or ASDA although asda might be OK fro branded products.


--
*Born free...Taxed to death.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 14:57:46 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

Why?

To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.

Do you get your fittings and tubes from the very cheapest on Ebay?

you really are dim aren't you.

How many times have I said we can't order from ebay ?
Our finance department has banned us from ordering via ebay.

How many times do you need this explaining ?

Right. Just wondered where you got rubbish that failed so often?

What rubbish ones that fails so often,

So you were lying when you said :-

'To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.'


you're the one that keeps
replacing bulbs and triacs not me.

Do I? But I'm not the one complaining about having to do it. Do you
remember what you post from one minute to the next?

you mean the two or three 35w halogen ones that have blown since 2006/7
I wouldnlt say they keep blowing.

Thought you were talking about fluorescent fittings.


--
*A cartoonist was found dead in his home. Details are sketchy.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:34:22 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 14:57:46 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

Why?

To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.

Do you get your fittings and tubes from the very cheapest on Ebay?

you really are dim aren't you.

How many times have I said we can't order from ebay ?
Our finance department has banned us from ordering via ebay.

How many times do you need this explaining ?

Right. Just wondered where you got rubbish that failed so often?

What rubbish ones that fails so often,

So you were lying when you said :-

'To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.'

I DO NOT buy those tubes yuo idiot the college suppllies them from wherever it gets them.
I have NO idea how long they last either having 80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit dim so could have been up there for 5 years or more.


you're the one that keeps
replacing bulbs and triacs not me.

Do I? But I'm not the one complaining about having to do it. Do you
remember what you post from one minute to the next?

Yes do you.
Did you not say you replace triacs .?


you mean the two or three 35w halogen ones that have blown since 2006/7
I wouldnlt say they keep blowing.

Thought you were talking about fluorescent fittings.

FFS.

At home I had 10 halogens installed in two light fittings.
since 2006/7 when I installed them up until last year I had 2 or 3 blow or should I just say stop working because ethey didnl;t explode or do anything exciting other than not work when switched on.
I do NOT think even 3 in in 9 years is a lot.

In my lab typically anywhere from 3 to 6 fluorescent tubes (not fittings)
go every year and replaced by maintanace, we do not have to pay for teh tubes
it is a central resource unlike teaching money which is what I spend on stuff for compnent & tool purchases .

Even some things that I do buy ahve to be paid for from a differnt grant if it's for a reaserch projects.
If/when I get a new computer for work at work it won't come from teaching money .
When we get the windows boarded up that won't come from teaching money.

When the new buildings (like our graduate centre) go up that isn't from teaching money either.

Do yuo really think they'll come to me saying you canl;t order any stripboard as we've spent all the money on the new graduate centre.
which is about 100 metres behind me.

http://www.qmul.ac.uk/investing-campus/graduate-centre/


and has LEDs on the roof garden which are alight with no one on the roof garden so they can afford LED lighting .

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 5:02:50 PM UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:34:22 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 14:57:46 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

I have NO idea how long they last either having 80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit dim so could have been up there for 5 years or more.


In my lab typically anywhere from 3 to 6 fluorescent tubes (not fittings)
go every year and replaced by maintanace, we do not have to pay for teh tubes

Fluros should be batch relamped, by time their dead enough to flicker they are down to nearly 50% of intial output. Rolling replacement of % every year But people think only dead lamp lamp is one with no light coming out.

Tend to be more carfeul with metal halides that if left long enough will remind you a lamp change is required with a bang.



and has LEDs on the roof garden which are alight with no one on the roof garden so they can afford LED lighting .

The architects like LED lighting thats whats important not what the users need, suppliers didn`t stock PIRs... ;-)

On 03/12/2016 15:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2016 14:18:00 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
ss wrote:
On 03/12/2016 12:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Average family living in an average 3 bedroom family house using the
average amount of electricity.

They change from all tungsten lighting to all LED.

How much money would they save on average per year on their leccy bill?

Too many variables to be accurate but as a rough guide I would say if
you have current 60w and move to say 12w LEDs then the lighting part of
leccy bill would approx a fifth of the cost (not including the cost of
the LED bulbs)

Snag with that is it's near impossible to know what proportion of your
leccy bill goes on lighting.

Is there a need to know the proportion? If the question is, how much
money will be saved surely all you need to know is how much
electricity is consumed by the lighting?

Depends what else is electric in the house. Chances are the kettle and a
few domestic appliances like fridge, freezer represent the bulk of other
power consumed plus a base load of typically 100W 24/7 for all the
household kit on standby, central heating, alarm, doorbell, router.

Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

A fairly good strategy is replace lamps with LED units as and when they
blow - that way you mostly replace the most heavily used ones first.

One limitation is if you need sets for chandeliers - they can look
really odd with a mish-mash or random lamps in from different eras.

I suspect if we switched entirely to LED it would cut our electricity
bill by about half. I got around 10% off just by finding and removing
the worst offending standby kit using smart switches. Some old digital
TVs have standby in the 20-30W range whereas recent ones are below 0.5W.

Some libraries will lend you a device to measure them accurately or you
can buy a gadget from Maplins.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
'To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.'

I DO NOT buy those tubes yuo idiot the college suppllies them from
wherever it gets them. I have NO idea how long they last either having
80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit dim so
could have been up there for 5 years or more.

You don't buy them and have no idea how long they last but have decided
they'd be best replaced by LED. Very logical.

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for the
fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use. If
they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

--
*A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 21:39:20 UTC, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 5:02:50 PM UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 16:34:22 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 14:57:46 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 13:47:05 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
I'd like the tubes in my lab replaced with LED's

I have NO idea how long they last either having 80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit dim so could have been up there for 5 years or more.


In my lab typically anywhere from 3 to 6 fluorescent tubes (not fittings)
go every year and replaced by maintanace, we do not have to pay for teh tubes

Fluros should be batch relamped, by time their dead enough to flicker they are down to nearly 50% of intial output. Rolling replacement of % every year But people think only dead lamp lamp is one with no light coming out.

Yes I know all you need to do is look up at them to see the difernt light output they give but I can;t report that to maintaince that a few tubes are a bit dim can you replace them.
Curently theres; 4 with just an orange glow at the end no useful light coming from them. that's 4 of about 80.



Tend to be more carfeul with metal halides that if left long enough will remind you a lamp change is required with a bang.



and has LEDs on the roof garden which are alight with no one on the roof garden so they can afford LED lighting .

that'll wake the students up.


The architects like LED lighting thats whats important not what the users need, suppliers didn`t stock PIRs... ;-)

Yes they make a lot of money from useless lighting.

On Tuesday, 6 December 2016 21:51:25 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 03/12/2016 15:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 03 Dec 2016 14:18:00 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
ss wrote:
On 03/12/2016 12:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Average family living in an average 3 bedroom family house using the
average amount of electricity.

They change from all tungsten lighting to all LED.

How much money would they save on average per year on their leccy bill?

Too many variables to be accurate but as a rough guide I would say if
you have current 60w and move to say 12w LEDs then the lighting part of
leccy bill would approx a fifth of the cost (not including the cost of
the LED bulbs)

Snag with that is it's near impossible to know what proportion of your
leccy bill goes on lighting.

Is there a need to know the proportion? If the question is, how much
money will be saved surely all you need to know is how much
electricity is consumed by the lighting?

Depends what else is electric in the house.

well not really, money saved is a real figure not a percentage.

Chances are the kettle and a
few domestic appliances like fridge, freezer represent the bulk of other
power consumed plus a base load of typically 100W 24/7 for all the
household kit on standby, central heating, alarm, doorbell, router.

I doubt that will change by changing lighting.


Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

Yes I have one of those it is useful.



A fairly good strategy is replace lamps with LED units as and when they
blow - that way you mostly replace the most heavily used ones first.

That's what I've been doing over the last 7 years or so.
Especailly as LEDs have imporved over the years I didnlt see the need to rush out and buy LEDs 7 years ago they didnlt seem as good as advertises seems to claim. Other than halgen spotlight there's wasn't many options.
My original 100 w tungsen buld of the late 80s as replaxed by a set of 3 60W tungsten candle bulbs, then in 2006 by a 6 way unit with 6 35W bulbs.
So every time I upgraded so do the amount of electricity used.
Of course using a dimmer reduce consumption of lighting then LEDs even more so.


One limitation is if you need sets for chandeliers - they can look
really odd with a mish-mash or random lamps in from different eras.

It's called artistic lighting



I suspect if we switched entirely to LED it would cut our electricity
bill by about half.

That would depend on what else yuo use surely.

I did notice that running out of teabags reduced my electricity useage quite significantly.




I got around 10% off just by finding and removing
the worst offending standby kit using smart switches. Some old digital
TVs have standby in the 20-30W range whereas recent ones are below 0.5W.

Yes but is it a reason to buy a new TV it wasn;t for me.
Bit when I was running a webcam 24/7 for 3+ months at a time I started to realise that my old G4 tower running at ~140w was a bit of a waste and that if I brough a new mac mini that does the same better and rund at about 5w it;d take me about 2 years for it to be worthwhile for doing that along, so I did it.


Some libraries will lend you a device to measure them accurately or you
can buy a gadget from Maplins.

I got one at home and one at work too. I wanted to prove that Green Mary wasn't as green as they think they are. IT insist the computers are left on 24/7 while the labs only run from 9am to 6pm.



--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 00:58:00 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
'To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.'

I DO NOT buy those tubes yuo idiot the college suppllies them from
wherever it gets them. I have NO idea how long they last either having
80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit dim so
could have been up there for 5 years or more.

You don't buy them and have no idea how long they last

I assume they;ll last as long as the warrenty says they';ll last what was it LEDs 50,000 hours.?


but have decided
they'd be best replaced by LED. Very logical.

So LEDs use more electricity than flourescent is that what you're saying ?

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Fluros should be batch relamped, by time their dead enough to flicker
they are down to nearly 50% of intial output. Rolling replacement of %
every year But people think only dead lamp lamp is one with no light
coming out.

Yes I know all you need to do is look up at them to see the difernt
light output they give but I can;t report that to maintaince that a few
tubes are a bit dim can you replace them. Curently theres; 4 with just
an orange glow at the end no useful light coming from them. that's 4 of
about 80.

So what makes you think LEDs will be any better?

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 00:58:00 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
'To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.'

I DO NOT buy those tubes yuo idiot the college suppllies them from
wherever it gets them. I have NO idea how long they last either
having 80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit
dim so could have been up there for 5 years or more.

You don't buy them and have no idea how long they last

I assume they;ll last as long as the warrenty says they';ll last what
was it LEDs 50,000 hours.?

What was it indeed. All sorts of claims are made for LEDs. You'd need to
find out exactly what warranty the actual ones you want provide.


but have decided
they'd be best replaced by LED. Very logical.

So LEDs use more electricity than flourescent is that what you're saying ?

You weren't talking about efficiency. Just life. Relative efficiency would
depend on the type of florry fitting and the type of tube in use. And the
type of LED used to replace them.

--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 01:08:06 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for the
fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

You really are clueless aren't you.
I put my oven on and I know when it;s up to teperature because it switches off and on all buy itself to maintaine the correct temperature.
I can tell when it's ready by sittign in the lounge and donl;t have to stand in the kitchem.
It was most useful when my flatmate kept leaving the grill on. I can tell when any major electrical applience is on or off just by looking at the display.
It was also useful for proving to a friend that charging their iphone wasn't costing a fortune, because they were tiold not to charge their phones at their clients house. I had a care working ringing at the doorbell because they couldn't get in downstairs as their phone had died and needed to call the office.
I showed her that as I plugged in my charger to her phone that is wasnt; costing as much as her employer had suggested.

How wpoudl you show someone a comparision between LEDs and any other sorce without a power meter ?


Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use. If
they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

They would if you charged them everytime they 'forgot' to turn something like a grill or over off.
People do turn off things that they know will cost them more have you not noticed this sort of thing.
Even car drivers tend to choose the cheaper places to fill up but why ?
What use is a price per litre at petrol stations if you needd= 5 litres a week you buy it, why worry about the cost?

Why not put the oven on 1/2 hour before you need it ?
Why not go out and leave the lights on if you're not being charged for doing so ?








--
*A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 11:15:08 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
Fluros should be batch relamped, by time their dead enough to flicker
they are down to nearly 50% of intial output. Rolling replacement of %
every year But people think only dead lamp lamp is one with no light
coming out.

Yes I know all you need to do is look up at them to see the difernt
light output they give but I can;t report that to maintaince that a few
tubes are a bit dim can you replace them. Curently theres; 4 with just
an orange glow at the end no useful light coming from them. that's 4 of
about 80.

So what makes you think LEDs will be any better?

Because green mary are giving out rewards for saving money and one of teh things they suggest is changing to LED lighting, and there's grants for such things too.
Why have they put LED lighting on the roof when there;s no one up there ?

I;'d like to ask them how it saves money.

Same as I'd like to ask how by sticking stickers on plugs makes an item electrically safe.

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 11:23:32 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 00:58:00 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
'To save the college money and every, every month I don't have to
report that a number of tubes are flickering or have now stopped
working.'

I DO NOT buy those tubes yuo idiot the college suppllies them from
wherever it gets them. I have NO idea how long they last either
having 80+ in the lab and 3 not working this week. Those loko a bit
dim so could have been up there for 5 years or more.

You don't buy them and have no idea how long they last

I assume they;ll last as long as the warrenty says they';ll last what
was it LEDs 50,000 hours.?

What was it indeed. All sorts of claims are made for LEDs.

Are yuo saying those claims are flase ?

You'd need to
find out exactly what warranty the actual ones you want provide.

So what warrenty is on those with a 50,000 hour life.


but have decided
they'd be best replaced by LED. Very logical.

So LEDs use more electricity than flourescent is that what you're saying ?

You weren't talking about efficiency.

I was and so is green mary.

Just life. Relative efficiency would
depend on the type of florry fitting and the type of tube in use. And the
type of LED used to replace them.

Yes so why say LEDs are better ?

On 07/12/2016 00:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for the
fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

No. But in a typical house there are a handful of items with relatively
high standby power which when eliminated cuts the 24/7 base load.

Saving 10W on base load translates to 90kWh/year which @ 12p/kWh = £11

Our previous TV was 25W on standby thanks to default settings that kept
the digital decoder running all the time. A couple of other PC
peripherals are in the region of 10-20W on standby - automatically
switching them off when the PC is sleeping saves money.

Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use. If
they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

You would be surprised how often the odd light gets left on. Much worse
with teenagers in the house.

It is even more important in the Village Hall where before the realtime
display it was not uncommon for the 6kW immersion heater, ovens and even
electric space heating to be left on overnight by forgetful hirers.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 03/12/2016 17:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

The LED colour rendering isn't quite right but 2700K tungsten lighting
is nothing like the natural light from the sun at 5000K.

Care to say just how you're measuring that sun? The colour temperature of
daylight varies by the time of day and time of year. Even before clouds,
etc.

That is roughly speaking the characteristic temperature of the suns
surface. Although very near sunset things get a lot different with
stronger red direct components and paradoxically a higher proportion of
scattered UV relative to the falling light levels immediately after
sunset so that some things appear to fluoresce as it gets darker.

Colour film
sees the difference but the human eyes white balance auto adjusts.

Basically the body might need some UV exposure per day for vitamin D
synthesis but neither LED *nor* conventional incandescents provide it.

2. HIgh frequency flicker, higher than fluorescents possibly
triggering migraine.

Persistence of vision and long phosphor glow time means that what little
flicker there is in LED lamps is negligible. They stay lit a
suprisingly long time after switching off. Incandescents also flicker
slightly at 100Hz.

I'd say an LED 'stays lit' because of its power supply. Not intrinsically.

Well yes, but since all LED domestic lighting is a PSU driving the LEDs
the result is that they do not flicker. OK some really dire cheap crude
Chinese ones might but nothing properly designed will.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 12:00:23 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:
On 07/12/2016 00:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for the
fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

No. But in a typical house there are a handful of items with relatively
high standby power which when eliminated cuts the 24/7 base load.

Saving 10W on base load translates to 90kWh/year which @ 12p/kWh = £11

Dave Plowman is just too thick to understand such things he doesn;t know that having a readout of power can give the inteligent a clue as to how to save money it won't work for him of course because he doesn;lt understand such things.



Our previous TV was 25W on standby thanks to default settings that kept
the digital decoder running all the time. A couple of other PC
peripherals are in the region of 10-20W on standby - automatically
switching them off when the PC is sleeping saves money.

Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use. If
they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

You would be surprised how often the odd light gets left on. Much worse
with teenagers in the house.

My timer on my emerion heater loses time of about 15 mins or more a year.
Last year I noticed I was using 3.6Kw at 12:20am, because my timer was set to come on at 12:35am ~5 mins after E7 kicks in.
So I went and switch it off and put the timer to the right time.


It is even more important in the Village Hall where before the realtime
display it was not uncommon for the 6kW immersion heater, ovens and even
electric space heating to be left on overnight by forgetful hirers.

I'd like one here at work be interesting to see if it;s chepaer to have all the offices have a 2kw fan heater or whether it;d be better for tehm to fix the heating.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 01:08:06 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for
the fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

You really are clueless aren't you. I put my oven on and I know when
it;s up to teperature because it switches off and on all buy itself to
maintaine the correct temperature. I can tell when it's ready by sittign
in the lounge and donl;t have to stand in the kitchem.

I'm sure that makes sense to you in connection with an energy meter.


It was most useful when my flatmate kept leaving the grill on. I can
tell when any major electrical applience is on or off just by looking at
the display.

Does it tell you if your flat mate is using the grill? Does it tell you
when he leaves it on when you're out? You spend all your time at home
staring at an energy meter? Is that before or after that bottle of whisky?



It was also useful for proving to a friend that charging
their iphone wasn't costing a fortune, because they were tiold not to
charge their phones at their clients house. I had a care working
ringing at the doorbell because they couldn't get in downstairs as their
phone had died and needed to call the office. I showed her that as I
plugged in my charger to her phone that is wasnt; costing as much as her
employer had suggested.

Ah. I really must get an energy meter, To tell others how much a phone
costs to charge.

How wpoudl you show someone a comparision between LEDs and any other
sorce without a power meter ?

Most electrical devices state their power consumption. But obviously
something else of the many things you don't understand.


Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use.
If they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

They would if you charged them everytime they 'forgot' to turn something
like a grill or over off.

Ah. Right. You want one to rip off a lodger. Say no more.

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 07/12/2016 00:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for
the fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

No. But in a typical house there are a handful of items with relatively
high standby power which when eliminated cuts the 24/7 base load.

Ok. But I only leave things on standby that need to be - say with a clock
or timer. Thinks that don't get switched off.

Saving 10W on base load translates to 90kWh/year which @ 12p/kWh = £11

Right.

Our previous TV was 25W on standby thanks to default settings that kept
the digital decoder running all the time. A couple of other PC
peripherals are in the region of 10-20W on standby - automatically
switching them off when the PC is sleeping saves money.

I don't see any need to leave any computer running when not in use.

Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use.
If they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

You would be surprised how often the odd light gets left on. Much worse
with teenagers in the house.

Yes - I know that. But does having an energy meter persuade them to switch
things off when not needed?

It is even more important in the Village Hall where before the realtime
display it was not uncommon for the 6kW immersion heater, ovens and even
electric space heating to be left on overnight by forgetful hirers.

Again - does it tell them to switch things off when not in use?

--
*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 14:05:43 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 01:08:06 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for
the fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

You really are clueless aren't you. I put my oven on and I know when
it;s up to teperature because it switches off and on all buy itself to
maintaine the correct temperature. I can tell when it's ready by sittign
in the lounge and donl;t have to stand in the kitchem.

I'm sure that makes sense to you in connection with an energy meter.

I know it wouldnlt to you.
But I can read a display that goes from 2.5Kw to about 450w and from that can tell that ther oven has switched off because it is up to temprature depending on what I;'ve set.
It's really easy. Perhaps that's why IP ovens are required because you need to be told via a speech program that the oven is ready.


It was most useful when my flatmate kept leaving the grill on. I can
tell when any major electrical applience is on or off just by looking at
the display.

Does it tell you if your flat mate is using the grill?

It tells me what the current comsumtion currently is.

Does it tell you
when he leaves it on when you're out?

She, it can do as you can switch it to daily weekly or monthly totals so it is possible to tell
how much electricity you use daily

You spend all your time at home
staring at an energy meter? Is that before or after that bottle of whisky?

Another friend is writing an app for a major electricity suopplier so anyone with the ability (which you lack) can check exactly what they are using by the hour every hour via a smart meter and smartphone. The company wanted it done by the minute.

So if I were on holiday I cluld check what was being used while I was away.

If the same could be done with gas perhasp teh more inteligent would notice a gas meter reading increasing hour by hour even if nothing was being used.



Ah. I really must get an energy meter, To tell others how much a phone
costs to charge.

You needd to get a brain first.


How wpoudl you show someone a comparision between LEDs and any other
sorce without a power meter ?

Most electrical devices state their power consumption.


But obviously
something else of the many things you don't understand.

Where does it tell you what an HTC phones uses when pliging in to charge.
The carar had no idea hwo much wattage a phone takes.


Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use.
If they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

They would if you charged them everytime they 'forgot' to turn something
like a grill or over off.

Ah. Right. You want one to rip off a lodger. Say no more.

I don't want anyone riping off me including the electric company.

you really are a dim ****er aren't you.

On Wednesday, 7 December 2016 14:05:43 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 07/12/2016 00:59, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:

Having an energy meter that displays usage in realtime will help cut
down the amount of energy that gets wasted.

That one always interests me. Do you or yours boil a kettle just for
the fun of it? Run the clothes drier empty?

No. But in a typical house there are a handful of items with relatively
high standby power which when eliminated cuts the 24/7 base load.

Ok. But I only leave things on

because you are the only in existance ?.
No one else ever uses any electrical device in yuor home ?

by that need to be - say with a clock
or timer. Thinks that don't get switched off.

me too, that's how I know what the meter should be reading at an instant in time.


Saving 10W on base load translates to 90kWh/year which @ 12p/kWh = £11

Right.

Our previous TV was 25W on standby thanks to default settings that kept
the digital decoder running all the time. A couple of other PC
peripherals are in the region of 10-20W on standby - automatically
switching them off when the PC is sleeping saves money.

I don't see any need to leave any computer running when not in use.

My computer was running a webcam, some use a CCTV systems that has to stay running. I suppose you think they don't use any power.
Some have those garden lights that come on when anyone passes by happened ot me on saturday a nieghbour light came on at about 2:15am as I walked past it stayed on for 10 or more mins, before it went off.





Most would have the sense not to leave lights etc on when not in use.
If they do, would they pay any attention to an energy meter?

You would be surprised how often the odd light gets left on. Much worse
with teenagers in the house.

Yes - I know that.

and yuo do nothing about it. Good for you.



But does having an energy meter persuade them to switch
things off when not needed?

That's not what an energy meter is for. It is for measuring such things not disaplining sprogs or the brain dead.



It is even more important in the Village Hall where before the realtime
display it was not uncommon for the 6kW immersion heater, ovens and even
electric space heating to be left on overnight by forgetful hirers.

Again - does it tell them to switch things off when not in use?


again - That's not what an energy meter is for. It is for measuring such things not disaplining sprogs or the brain dead.

Because it could be part of a competition between the kids in the street who can use the most electric without being found out.
Do yuo serious thing 20 mph road signs stop drivers goign above 20 mph ?

--
*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 06/12/2016 11:21, Adam Aglionby wrote:

Here its been head conversion to Concrete Utilities columns, in some areas the spacing is way too far and ends up with puddles of light and threatening shadows, opposite of what street light6ing is meant to achieve.

Pretty much the same here.

They replaced the ones on out street last year "puddles of light and
threatening shadows".

However they seemed to perform well in the freezing fog we had the other
day.

One of them failed a couple of weeks after been fitted - but that was
probably due to the Mondeo knocking down the lamp post (christ knows how
she managed that)


--
Adam

On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had such
poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and unnatural
looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its odd, because
I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &
multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).


One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

Adam Funk wrote:
On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had such
poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and unnatural
looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its odd, because
I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &
multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).


One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

Indeed, but they always were and it didn't stop the sale of them. If better
LEDs hadn't come along we'd probably still be using the wretched things.

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had
such poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and
unnatural looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its
odd, because I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries
quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &
multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).


One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

Indeed, but they always were and it didn't stop the sale of them. If
better LEDs hadn't come along we'd probably still be using the wretched
things.

Early LEDs tended to exaggerate the light output too. They seem to be a
bit better now - but still don't equate to the sort of tungsten most used
before.

--
*A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:22:20 +0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had such
poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and unnatural
looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its odd, because
I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &

I thought they were no good at low temperatures.

multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).


One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

On 13/12/2016 16:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had
such poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and
unnatural looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its
odd, because I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries
quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &
multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).

Outside lights is one where CFLs can perform badly as the mercury vapour
pressure can be low and they will take ages to get going.

One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

Indeed, but they always were and it didn't stop the sale of them. If
better LEDs hadn't come along we'd probably still be using the wretched
things.

Early LEDs tended to exaggerate the light output too. They seem to be a
bit better now - but still don't equate to the sort of tungsten most used
before.

They do! I got caught out by my first "60W" equivalent LED bulb being
way too bright for the small bathroom that I bought it for.

In fact they are slightly brighter than UK 240v incandescents because
their set point is calibrated against thicker brighter US 120v coiled
coil filaments which are more efficient than UK ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incand...haracteristics


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:54:56 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/12/2016 16:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had
such poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and
unnatural looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its
odd, because I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries
quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &
multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).

Outside lights is one where CFLs can perform badly as the mercury vapour
pressure can be low and they will take ages to get going.

One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

Indeed, but they always were and it didn't stop the sale of them. If
better LEDs hadn't come along we'd probably still be using the wretched
things.

Early LEDs tended to exaggerate the light output too. They seem to be a
bit better now - but still don't equate to the sort of tungsten most used
before.

They do! I got caught out by my first "60W" equivalent LED bulb being
way too bright for the small bathroom that I bought it for.

In fact they are slightly brighter than UK 240v incandescents because
their set point is calibrated against thicker brighter US 120v coiled
coil filaments which are more efficient than UK ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incand...haracteristics

The term 'coiled coil' always amused me. Is there such a thing as an
non-coiled coil?

On 13/12/16 19:18, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:54:56 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/12/2016 16:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim+ wrote:
Adam Funk wrote:
On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had
such poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and
unnatural looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its
odd, because I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries
quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &
multi-lamp indoor fittings (e.g., the dining room ceiling has a
thing-on-a-chain with 3 lamps pointing up).

Outside lights is one where CFLs can perform badly as the mercury vapour
pressure can be low and they will take ages to get going.

One of the things that killed the CFL market was the overstated light
output equivalence figures that were banded about.

Yes, they were complete bunk!

Indeed, but they always were and it didn't stop the sale of them. If
better LEDs hadn't come along we'd probably still be using the wretched
things.

Early LEDs tended to exaggerate the light output too. They seem to be a
bit better now - but still don't equate to the sort of tungsten most used
before.

They do! I got caught out by my first "60W" equivalent LED bulb being
way too bright for the small bathroom that I bought it for.

In fact they are slightly brighter than UK 240v incandescents because
their set point is calibrated against thicker brighter US 120v coiled
coil filaments which are more efficient than UK ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incand...haracteristics

The term 'coiled coil' always amused me. Is there such a thing as an
non-coiled coil?

yes.

On 13/12/2016 17:18, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:54:56 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

On 13/12/2016 16:18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Early LEDs tended to exaggerate the light output too. They seem to be a
bit better now - but still don't equate to the sort of tungsten most used
before.

They do! I got caught out by my first "60W" equivalent LED bulb being
way too bright for the small bathroom that I bought it for.

In fact they are slightly brighter than UK 240v incandescents because
their set point is calibrated against thicker brighter US 120v coiled
coil filaments which are more efficient than UK ones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incand...haracteristics

The term 'coiled coil' always amused me. Is there such a thing as an
non-coiled coil?

Coiled coil in this sense means that the first coil is itself then
coiled again. Essentially a second level fractal coil curve.

It allows them to control tungsten losses due to evaporation and makes
the hotter filament more thermally efficient at making light.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 2016-12-13, Scott wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:22:20 +0000, Adam Funk
wrote:

On 2016-12-03, John Rumm wrote:

I tried many CFLs over the years, and only managed to find one or two
that were at best adequate. Most (especially the early ones) had such
poor colour rendition they seemed to make any room cold and unnatural
looking with a green tinge thrown in for good measure. Its odd, because
I find the light from linear tri-phospher florries quite acceptable.

I retired all the CFLs as soon as I found decent LEDs!

I still have CFLs in stock, but I only use them in outside lights &

I thought they were no good at low temperatures.

They take a couple of seconds to reach full brightness at low
temperatures, but that doesn't bother me much outside.