Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

First thing to do is not to panic to much and take a couple of deep breaths.
Now get all the water turned off at all the stop cocks and make sure that
any water heaters are also switched off.

Now looking at the pictures you've provided links too, I'd say you'd need to
remove the whole top lid off that base tank and clean it all up until it
shines like a new sixpence (sorry, five pence piece, same size). That tank
has been leaking for many a time by the looks of all the corrosion on it, so
it really needs cleaned off before any other judgement can be made on a
remedy.

Get all the water off, especially to the tanks, and then get back to us for
more advice.

If you've already calmed down and done all the water turning off thingies,
then get a shifting spanner....sooorry.....an adjustable spanner and remove
the nut from the elbow fitting that's nearest the door hinges and floor to
the right, and you can use this as a draining point for the tank water if
you put a basin or big pot, bowl or loads of towels under it.

Once you've got a load of water out, then take the spanner and undo the ring
band that holds the pressure vessel on top of the base tank. The bolt is
facing the door, so it's clearly visible and easy to access.

Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....



"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

"RJ" wrote in message
om...
Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

If an unvented cylinder shows signs of corrosion then ditch it.


My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....



"BigWallop" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean
the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able
to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of
the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the
correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good
with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

On 11 Jan 2004 01:54:00 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....


Then don't do it. This is a cylinder of hot water at 60 degrees,
stored under mains pressure - up to about about 4 bar. Really,
according to Building Regulations they are supposed to be (legally
speaking) installed and maintained by a plumber specifically trained
on pressurised cylinders.

Normally, I will tackle anything with respect to plumbing, and I am
far from being a fan of government regulation but looking at your
photos, I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to fix this cylinder.
Even if you can clean it up, and it looks doubtful to me, then you
would have to be very sure that it all goes back together properly.
What you don't know is whether the cylinder has in other respects
corroded and deteriorated. I would say that this really isn't worth
the risk.

If you want to DIY this, then IMM's idea of a heatbank does make
sense. It would be quite easy to plumb this in, although a bit of
wiring would be needed, and it has the advantage that the contents of
the cylinder are not under pressure. The heat is stored in the
cylinder in the form of water at low pressure and then this is pumped
through an efficient heat exchanger to heat the mains water. With a
vented primary system you can connect directly. I notice on yours
what looks to be a small pressure vessel for the heating (red) at the
corner of the picture. In this case you have a sealed system and you
would use an indirect heat bank with its own header tank built in.

Alternatively, you could just get the cylinder replaced with a new
pressurised one. However this really is a job that is supposed to be
done by a trained professional. If you were a 10/10 person on
plumbing then I'd suggest that you make your own value judgment on
whether to DIY, but since you say 8/10, then I would think carefully.
If you get it wrong then you can create a dangerous situation.







"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

IMM wrote:

"RJ" wrote in message
om...

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...


If an unvented cylinder shows signs of corrosion then ditch it.


This is another rare occasion where I tend to agree with you :-)

Andy Hall wrote:


Then don't do it. This is a cylinder of hot water at 60 degrees,
stored under mains pressure - up to about about 4 bar. Really,
according to Building Regulations they are supposed to be (legally
speaking) installed and maintained by a plumber specifically trained
on pressurised cylinders.


Alternatively, you could just get the cylinder replaced with a new
pressurised one. However this really is a job that is supposed to be
done by a trained professional. If you were a 10/10 person on
plumbing then I'd suggest that you make your own value judgment on
whether to DIY, but since you say 8/10, then I would think carefully.
If you get it wrong then you can create a dangerous situation.


Mine was installed by a complete gibbon, and I had to help him read the
instructions.

It isn't quite as bad as you make out, because its cold water you fill
it with. And that won't go BANG - just **** out of any joints. The
standard way to pressure test a steam boiler is to fill it with water
and pressurise it...for that reason..

The real danger is, if it ever boils. Thats why its equipped with safety
valves and a pipe to vent steam out of. THIS is what needs to be
thoroughly tested. A boiler of steam DOES explode, and is lethal.

Even iof you do get a 'qualified' p[lumber to instrall it, I'd suggest
reading the nstructions and cheacking up on what he does, and making
sure any recommended tests are carried out.

IMM & Andy

That isn't what I wanted to hear - but my head tells me you are both
correct.

IF I could get a plumber to even consider coming around I'd be keen to
wash my hands. I can't yet get one to even quote within a month!
I'll try again on Monday. Thank god the gaffer tape is holding!

So as far as the pressurised tank goes - I'll leave it to the pros to
fix/replace - unless I go for a heat exchanger unit. I'm happier with
wiring than plumbing and have just read up on these - and think I
could cope with them.

Andy - you are correct about the red central-heating pressure vessel.
Though not sure I understand what you mean by "In this case you have a
sealed system and you would use an indirect heat bank with its own
header tank built in."

Without taking the pi$$ too much - do you have any make/models of
tanks you think may suffice that I could research more to see if its
in my capabilities? My research suggests its doable if a little
complex...

(Note 8/10 for DIY is my rating for other bits I've done - not
directed specifically at plumbing where I'd say its a bit lower - so
point taken over saftey)

ALL of your help is much appreciated so far.

Regards

RJ (near Heathrow)

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 11 Jan 2004 01:54:00 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....


Then don't do it. This is a cylinder of hot water at 60 degrees,
stored under mains pressure - up to about about 4 bar. Really,
according to Building Regulations they are supposed to be (legally
speaking) installed and maintained by a plumber specifically trained
on pressurised cylinders.

Normally, I will tackle anything with respect to plumbing, and I am
far from being a fan of government regulation but looking at your
photos, I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to fix this cylinder.
Even if you can clean it up, and it looks doubtful to me, then you
would have to be very sure that it all goes back together properly.
What you don't know is whether the cylinder has in other respects
corroded and deteriorated. I would say that this really isn't worth
the risk.

If you want to DIY this, then IMM's idea of a heatbank does make
sense. It would be quite easy to plumb this in, although a bit of
wiring would be needed, and it has the advantage that the contents of
the cylinder are not under pressure. The heat is stored in the
cylinder in the form of water at low pressure and then this is pumped
through an efficient heat exchanger to heat the mains water. With a
vented primary system you can connect directly. I notice on yours
what looks to be a small pressure vessel for the heating (red) at the
corner of the picture. In this case you have a sealed system and you
would use an indirect heat bank with its own header tank built in.

Alternatively, you could just get the cylinder replaced with a new
pressurised one. However this really is a job that is supposed to be
done by a trained professional. If you were a 10/10 person on
plumbing then I'd suggest that you make your own value judgment on
whether to DIY, but since you say 8/10, then I would think carefully.
If you get it wrong then you can create a dangerous situation.







"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi all

I've just spent ages looking at what I've got - and I think its all
clicked and I understand it. The cylinder has 4 pipes (excluding
pressure/temp releif) - boiler in/return; cold feed and hot out.

The boiler in/return is linked via an electric valve to the heating
system, so this circut is under about 2 bar pressure controlled with
its own pressure vessle/release valve.

So - I reckon I could loop the boiler feeds, and put a stop-cock on
the cold feed and the hot water out. This would mean I could have
cold water and heating and not worry about the cylinder - and okay -
no hot water.

In which case, I'd be 100% confident of ripping out the cylinder
without doing any damage.

Assuming a replacement of a vented (aka thermal storage) system - from
what I've found on the web, I'd just need to connect up the right pipe
to the right hole and I'd have hot water again. Is it as LOGICALLY
easy as that? (I know how to de/repressurise the boiler/heating
loop).

Any comments welcome, and I've got a few more questions below. Don't
worry about running before walking, I never jump too quickly! Also -
if I'm right about the issolation bit - its okay as we don't need hot
water as we can go to the local swimming pool for a swim and shower
every day!!! SO I can take my time!

Some questions if I may be so bold
1 - is my understanding logically okay?
2 - any recommended systems / suppliers (UB or SL area)
3 - do systems normally come with all fixings and instruction
manuals!!!?
4 - a phosphor de-scaler was noted in this thread. What is this and
where does it fit?
5 - whats the thing I have on the boiler feeds on the tank. Red thing
with long white wire. Is it a flow switch? If so - whats it for and
whats its current purpose?
6 - any recommendations for websites to look at appreciated

You have all been unbelieveably helpful - and are giving me some
confidence to undertake this (only replacing with the storage type!!).
IF I could get a plumber I'd be happy to pay, watch and learn, but
they are just so busy they aren't interested!

Any comments welcome - and if you want to talk to me directly you can
via my email address which is on http://www.ryanandmel.com - under
PERSONAL INFORMATION. (username=jones / password=jones)

THANKS AGAIN!

RJ


Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 11 Jan 2004 01:54:00 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....


Then don't do it. This is a cylinder of hot water at 60 degrees,
stored under mains pressure - up to about about 4 bar. Really,
according to Building Regulations they are supposed to be (legally
speaking) installed and maintained by a plumber specifically trained
on pressurised cylinders.

Normally, I will tackle anything with respect to plumbing, and I am
far from being a fan of government regulation but looking at your
photos, I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to fix this cylinder.
Even if you can clean it up, and it looks doubtful to me, then you
would have to be very sure that it all goes back together properly.
What you don't know is whether the cylinder has in other respects
corroded and deteriorated. I would say that this really isn't worth
the risk.

If you want to DIY this, then IMM's idea of a heatbank does make
sense. It would be quite easy to plumb this in, although a bit of
wiring would be needed, and it has the advantage that the contents of
the cylinder are not under pressure. The heat is stored in the
cylinder in the form of water at low pressure and then this is pumped
through an efficient heat exchanger to heat the mains water. With a
vented primary system you can connect directly. I notice on yours
what looks to be a small pressure vessel for the heating (red) at the
corner of the picture. In this case you have a sealed system and you
would use an indirect heat bank with its own header tank built in.

Alternatively, you could just get the cylinder replaced with a new
pressurised one. However this really is a job that is supposed to be
done by a trained professional. If you were a 10/10 person on
plumbing then I'd suggest that you make your own value judgment on
whether to DIY, but since you say 8/10, then I would think carefully.
If you get it wrong then you can create a dangerous situation.







"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 11 Jan 2004 08:00:03 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

IMM & Andy

That isn't what I wanted to hear - but my head tells me you are both
correct.

IF I could get a plumber to even consider coming around I'd be keen to
wash my hands. I can't yet get one to even quote within a month!
I'll try again on Monday. Thank god the gaffer tape is holding!

So as far as the pressurised tank goes - I'll leave it to the pros to
fix/replace - unless I go for a heat exchanger unit. I'm happier with
wiring than plumbing and have just read up on these - and think I
could cope with them.

Andy - you are correct about the red central-heating pressure vessel.
Though not sure I understand what you mean by "In this case you have a
sealed system and you would use an indirect heat bank with its own
header tank built in."

Your heating primary circuit is sealed and the red vessel is there to
absorb the expansion of the water in that circuit as the boiler heats
it. Inside it there is a diaphragm with air or nitrogen behind it.
The alternative would have been an open vented system which has a
small header tank open to the air typically in the loft.

With a heatbank, the water in the bulk of the tank is not maintained
under pressure, it is fed from some kind of header tank open to the
air. If your heating system had been open vented, you could have
connected the heatbank directly to the primary circuit and have the
bulk water inside part of that circuit. The expansion of that water
would be taken care of by the header tank. This would be called a
direct heatbank since the bulk water in the heatbank cylinder also
runs through the boiler.

However, when you have a sealed primary system as you have, the
pressure can be anything up to 3 bar and the heatbank cylinder is not
designed to take that. To get around this, the heatbank can have an
indirect coil (rather like your existing cylinder) and the bulk water
inside is heated indirectly - the water in the coil remains part of
the primary circuit and is sealed and under pressure from ther red
expansion vessel.

You still have to have provision for the heatbank water to expand and
this is done with a header tank. You could do this by having a
separate header tank in the loft, or some manufacturers (e.g. DPS)
offer packaged heatbanks with the header in the top of the package
immediately over the heatbank cylinder itself.

With the indirect arrangement, you end up with three lots of water:

- the primary circuit, under pressure as it is today and feeding an
indirect coil in the heatbank.

- the heatbank water, open vented and heated via the coil to 75-80
degrees rather than the 60 of the existing cylinder.

- the mains water which is heated as required using the heatbank water
via a heat exchanger with a separate pump to the heating pump to
circulate it between heatbank and heat exchanger,





Without taking the pi$$ too much - do you have any make/models of
tanks you think may suffice that I could research more to see if its
in my capabilities? My research suggests its doable if a little
complex...

If you buy a packaged heatbank it's not that bad. You should be able
to hook it up to the existing plumbing quite easily.



(Note 8/10 for DIY is my rating for other bits I've done - not
directed specifically at plumbing where I'd say its a bit lower - so
point taken over saftey)

ALL of your help is much appreciated so far.

Regards

RJ (near Heathrow)

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 11 Jan 2004 01:54:00 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....


Then don't do it. This is a cylinder of hot water at 60 degrees,
stored under mains pressure - up to about about 4 bar. Really,
according to Building Regulations they are supposed to be (legally
speaking) installed and maintained by a plumber specifically trained
on pressurised cylinders.

Normally, I will tackle anything with respect to plumbing, and I am
far from being a fan of government regulation but looking at your
photos, I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to fix this cylinder.
Even if you can clean it up, and it looks doubtful to me, then you
would have to be very sure that it all goes back together properly.
What you don't know is whether the cylinder has in other respects
corroded and deteriorated. I would say that this really isn't worth
the risk.

If you want to DIY this, then IMM's idea of a heatbank does make
sense. It would be quite easy to plumb this in, although a bit of
wiring would be needed, and it has the advantage that the contents of
the cylinder are not under pressure. The heat is stored in the
cylinder in the form of water at low pressure and then this is pumped
through an efficient heat exchanger to heat the mains water. With a
vented primary system you can connect directly. I notice on yours
what looks to be a small pressure vessel for the heating (red) at the
corner of the picture. In this case you have a sealed system and you
would use an indirect heat bank with its own header tank built in.

Alternatively, you could just get the cylinder replaced with a new
pressurised one. However this really is a job that is supposed to be
done by a trained professional. If you were a 10/10 person on
plumbing then I'd suggest that you make your own value judgment on
whether to DIY, but since you say 8/10, then I would think carefully.
If you get it wrong then you can create a dangerous situation.







"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Mine was installed by a complete gibbon, and I had to help him read the
instructions.

It isn't quite as bad as you make out, because its cold water you fill
it with. And that won't go BANG - just **** out of any joints. The
standard way to pressure test a steam boiler is to fill it with water
and pressurise it...for that reason..

The real danger is, if it ever boils. Thats why its equipped with safety
valves and a pipe to vent steam out of. THIS is what needs to be
thoroughly tested. A boiler of steam DOES explode, and is lethal.

Even iof you do get a 'qualified' p[lumber to instrall it, I'd suggest
reading the nstructions and cheacking up on what he does, and making
sure any recommended tests are carried out.

Agree throughout. Would the thing come with instructions on how to
test? And surely separate pressure and temp release valves would be
sufficinet here. Thats what I have today, and clearly would ensure I
had in the future!

If I can't locate Polystel, any recommendations for reasonable
cost/performance replacements? Or anyone know of anyone who'd sell
spares for Polystel ?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"RJ" wrote in message
om...

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...


If an unvented cylinder shows signs of corrosion then ditch it.


This is another rare occasion where I tend to agree with you :-)

Amazing! You gradually learning then.



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

"RJ" wrote in message
om...
IMM & Andy

Without taking the pi$$ too much - do you have any make/models of
tanks you think may suffice that I could research more to see if its
in my capabilities? My research suggests its doable if a little
complex...

Christian on this ng has just installed a DPS Pandora heat bank. Do a
Google on Pandora. and look at it on http://www.heatweb.com. No overflow
is required. You fill it up with hose and add the appropriate inhibitor.

The same pipes you have around the kaput unvented cylinder just need
connecting to the heat bank. flow and return from the boiler, to the flow
and return of the heat bank. The Pandora has an integral heating coil just
like the unvented cylinder. The cold feed from the cold mains to the cold
mains feed of the heat bank. The hot draw-off pipe at the top of the
unvented cylinder is the DHW outlet on the heat bank. Forget the overflow
pipe as it is not applicable. The wiring can be advised by the heat bank
makers. Get one with a back up immersion heat, they supply them fitted and
fit the thermostat too.



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 03/01/2004

"RJ" wrote in message
om...
Hi all

I've just spent ages looking at what I've got - and I think its all
clicked and I understand it. The cylinder has 4 pipes (excluding
pressure/temp releif) - boiler in/return; cold feed and hot out.

The boiler in/return is linked via an electric valve to the heating
system, so this circut is under about 2 bar pressure controlled with
its own pressure vessle/release valve.

So - I reckon I could loop the boiler feeds, and put a stop-cock on
the cold feed and the hot water out. This would mean I could have
cold water and heating and not worry about the cylinder - and okay -
no hot water.

In which case, I'd be 100% confident of ripping out the cylinder
without doing any damage.

Assuming a replacement of a vented (aka thermal storage) system - from
what I've found on the web, I'd just need to connect up the right pipe
to the right hole and I'd have hot water again. Is it as LOGICALLY
easy as that? (I know how to de/repressurise the boiler/heating
loop).

Any comments welcome, and I've got a few more questions below. Don't
worry about running before walking, I never jump too quickly! Also -
if I'm right about the issolation bit - its okay as we don't need hot
water as we can go to the local swimming pool for a swim and shower
every day!!! SO I can take my time!

Some questions if I may be so bold
1 - is my understanding logically okay?
2 - any recommended systems / suppliers (UB or SL area)
3 - do systems normally come with all fixings and instruction
manuals!!!?
4 - a phosphor de-scaler was noted in this thread. What is this and
where does it fit?
5 - whats the thing I have on the boiler feeds on the tank. Red thing
with long white wire. Is it a flow switch? If so - whats it for and
whats its current purpose?
6 - any recommendations for websites to look at appreciated

You have all been unbelieveably helpful - and are giving me some
confidence to undertake this (only replacing with the storage type!!).
IF I could get a plumber I'd be happy to pay, watch and learn, but
they are just so busy they aren't interested!

Any comments welcome - and if you want to talk to me directly you can
via my email address which is on http://www.ryanandmel.com - under
PERSONAL INFORMATION. (username=jones / password=jones)

THANKS AGAIN!

RJ

See my post on the Pandora. This looks like what you need. Simple, no
overflow and only 4 pipes require connecting. Less work replacing with this
than with a new unvented cylinder.



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 03/01/2004

I've looked at the Pandora and spoken to the guys at heatweb - very
helpful and he convinced me I could fit it! Pricey - but I guess
every option I have will be as well!

So many thanks for this suggestion.

Still don't know what the red thing is....

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"RJ" wrote in message
om...
IMM & Andy

Without taking the pi$$ too much - do you have any make/models of
tanks you think may suffice that I could research more to see if its
in my capabilities? My research suggests its doable if a little
complex...

Christian on this ng has just installed a DPS Pandora heat bank. Do a
Google on Pandora. and look at it on http://www.heatweb.com. No overflow
is required. You fill it up with hose and add the appropriate inhibitor.

"RJ" wrote in message
om...

I've looked at the Pandora and spoken to the guys at heatweb - very
helpful and he convinced me I could fit it! Pricey - but I guess
every option I have will be as well!

The Pandora is about the same price as an unvented cylinder. But with the
problems they have.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

On 12 Jan 2004 05:06:45 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

I've looked at the Pandora and spoken to the guys at heatweb - very
helpful and he convinced me I could fit it! Pricey - but I guess
every option I have will be as well!

So many thanks for this suggestion.

Still don't know what the red thing is....

The expansion vessel for the heating primary circuit.



"IMM" wrote in message ...
"RJ" wrote in message
om...
IMM & Andy

Without taking the pi$$ too much - do you have any make/models of
tanks you think may suffice that I could research more to see if its
in my capabilities? My research suggests its doable if a little
complex...

Christian on this ng has just installed a DPS Pandora heat bank. Do a
Google on Pandora. and look at it on http://www.heatweb.com. No overflow
is required. You fill it up with hose and add the appropriate inhibitor.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 12 Jan 2004 05:06:45 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Still don't know what the red thing is....


Is it an immersion heater? Difficult to tell from the pictures whether
it is sitting on and/or attached to pipework, or if it is sitting on
the top of the cylinder.


Tim Hardisty.
Remove HAT before replying

"Tim Hardisty" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2004 05:06:45 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Still don't know what the red thing is....


Is it an immersion heater? Difficult to tell from the pictures whether
it is sitting on and/or attached to pipework, or if it is sitting on
the top of the cylinder.


Tim Hardisty.


It's a Redring IHC 2 immersion heater. Immersion Heater Coil 2, 240 volts
~ 3Kw.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

Not "that" red thing - I know that!

The thing in top-left corner on the top of the cylinder. It has an
electrical connector to it and I can't work it out. Its on the end of
a T for the boiler in/return.

Pandora is looking more & more likely. Any other alternatives worth
checking out?

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..
On 12 Jan 2004 05:06:45 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

I've looked at the Pandora and spoken to the guys at heatweb - very
helpful and he convinced me I could fit it! Pricey - but I guess
every option I have will be as well!

So many thanks for this suggestion.

Still don't know what the red thing is....

The expansion vessel for the heating primary circuit.



"IMM" wrote in message ...
"RJ" wrote in message
om...
IMM & Andy

Without taking the pi$$ too much - do you have any make/models of
tanks you think may suffice that I could research more to see if its
in my capabilities? My research suggests its doable if a little
complex...

Christian on this ng has just installed a DPS Pandora heat bank. Do a
Google on Pandora. and look at it on http://www.heatweb.com. No overflow
is required. You fill it up with hose and add the appropriate inhibitor.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 12 Jan 2004 11:23:48 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Not "that" red thing - I know that!

The thing in top-left corner on the top of the cylinder. It has an
electrical connector to it and I can't work it out. Its on the end of
a T for the boiler in/return.

I was going to say it's an immersion heater. The make is right and
the shape of the top is like an immersion heater cover. However,
from enlarging one of the photos it appears that it says 240v 3A.
An immersion heater would normally be 13A or more. Also I wouldn't
expect it to be located as described.

Where does the other end of its lead go? To a terminal box along
with the lead from the cylinder thermostat?

If so, then it's possibly a flow switch, pressure switch or thermostat
or something like that.



Pandora is looking more & more likely. Any other alternatives worth
checking out?


You could look at what Albion has....
..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"RJ" wrote in message
om...
Not "that" red thing - I know that!

The thing in top-left corner on the top of the cylinder. It has an
electrical connector to it and I can't work it out. Its on the end of
a T for the boiler in/return.

Pandora is looking more & more likely. Any other alternatives worth
checking out?

Look at the Range cylinders thermal store. They may have one that is
readily in stock.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2004 11:23:48 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

snipped

If so, then it's possibly a flow switch, pressure switch or thermostat
or something like that.


I think he meant this red thing:

http://www.basecsys.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tank3.jpg


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:34:26 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 12 Jan 2004 11:23:48 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

snipped

If so, then it's possibly a flow switch, pressure switch or thermostat
or something like that.


I think he meant this red thing:

http://www.basecsys.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tank3.jpg



Nope, he already mentioned that he realised that this is the CH
expansion vessel.

The one on the top appears at first sight to be an immersion heater,
but when you look more closely, I don't think that it is.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2004 11:23:48 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Not "that" red thing - I know that!

The thing in top-left corner on the top of the cylinder. It has an
electrical connector to it and I can't work it out. Its on the end of
a T for the boiler in/return.

I was going to say it's an immersion heater. The make is right and
the shape of the top is like an immersion heater cover. However,
from enlarging one of the photos it appears that it says 240v 3A.
An immersion heater would normally be 13A or more. Also I wouldn't
expect it to be located as described.

Where does the other end of its lead go? To a terminal box along
with the lead from the cylinder thermostat?

If so, then it's possibly a flow switch, pressure switch or thermostat
or something like that.

This appears to be a high temperature boiler cut out. It is on the boilers
return from the coil. If the return is too high it means the boiler is
running away. The cylinder is up and over temp and the difference between
the flow and return is minimal. It could be because of a number of problems
all occurring at once, which means the cylinder will get and hotter and in
danger of exploding if the pressure relief does not open.

Some versions of unvented cylinders have a high-temperature relief valve.
If high temperatures occur, typically 90-95C, the valve physically open to
an overflow pipe.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:59:44 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On 12 Jan 2004 11:23:48 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Not "that" red thing - I know that!

The thing in top-left corner on the top of the cylinder. It has an
electrical connector to it and I can't work it out. Its on the end of
a T for the boiler in/return.

I was going to say it's an immersion heater. The make is right and
the shape of the top is like an immersion heater cover. However,
from enlarging one of the photos it appears that it says 240v 3A.
An immersion heater would normally be 13A or more. Also I wouldn't
expect it to be located as described.

Where does the other end of its lead go? To a terminal box along
with the lead from the cylinder thermostat?

If so, then it's possibly a flow switch, pressure switch or thermostat
or something like that.

This appears to be a high temperature boiler cut out. It is on the boilers
return from the coil. If the return is too high it means the boiler is
running away. The cylinder is up and over temp and the difference between
the flow and return is minimal. It could be because of a number of problems
all occurring at once, which means the cylinder will get and hotter and in
danger of exploding if the pressure relief does not open.

Some versions of unvented cylinders have a high-temperature relief valve.
If high temperatures occur, typically 90-95C, the valve physically open to
an overflow pipe.


That would make sense. The plate shows that it was made by Redring
with a model code of IHC 2; but this doesn't appear on their web site
- it looks quite old anyway.



---

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Nope.

The imerssion heater goes in the centre of the tank - but it isn't
cabled.

The red thing is deffinately not a heater, it connects only via the
end of the T piece and teh cabling going to it is 13A - probably 3
or 5A cable going to a junction box.

"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"Tim Hardisty" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2004 05:06:45 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Still don't know what the red thing is....


Is it an immersion heater? Difficult to tell from the pictures whether
it is sitting on and/or attached to pipework, or if it is sitting on
the top of the cylinder.


Tim Hardisty.


It's a Redring IHC 2 immersion heater. Immersion Heater Coil 2, 240 volts
~ 3Kw.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

Boiler high temp cut out? I could go along with that! The cylinder
does have a 90' temp release valve as well. So this must be a
secondary type. I guess it'll do no harm to put this on the boiler
return of any new cylinder I put in anyway.

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2004 11:23:48 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Not "that" red thing - I know that!

The thing in top-left corner on the top of the cylinder. It has an
electrical connector to it and I can't work it out. Its on the end of
a T for the boiler in/return.

I was going to say it's an immersion heater. The make is right and
the shape of the top is like an immersion heater cover. However,
from enlarging one of the photos it appears that it says 240v 3A.
An immersion heater would normally be 13A or more. Also I wouldn't
expect it to be located as described.

Where does the other end of its lead go? To a terminal box along
with the lead from the cylinder thermostat?

If so, then it's possibly a flow switch, pressure switch or thermostat
or something like that.

This appears to be a high temperature boiler cut out. It is on the boilers
return from the coil. If the return is too high it means the boiler is
running away. The cylinder is up and over temp and the difference between
the flow and return is minimal. It could be because of a number of problems
all occurring at once, which means the cylinder will get and hotter and in
danger of exploding if the pressure relief does not open.

Some versions of unvented cylinders have a high-temperature relief valve.
If high temperatures occur, typically 90-95C, the valve physically open to
an overflow pipe.


---

"RJ" wrote in message
om...

Boiler high temp cut out? I could go along with that! The cylinder
does have a 90' temp release valve as well. So this must be a
secondary type. I guess it'll do no harm to put this on the boiler
return of any new cylinder I put in anyway.

What is underneath the cover. take it off and have a look.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

So - went with plumber.

Hmmm.

Never ever ever again. Not slagging off all plumbers as I'm sure you
guys aren't like this - but 20-30 visits to van (minimum) at slow
walking pace, and taking ages over doing anything - it gets put in in
8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

WHAT!? Not really fair.

Oh - and do you need to be qualified to put it in? No offence to the
advice - but no - it was easily doable by a good DIYer. And the extra
tests for building regs and unvented systems? What test!?

1 - big label: "THIS MUST BE EARTHED" and an earth bolt underneath.
No cable...
2 - Tundish must be seen. (old one couldn't) - so he moved it so it
could be seen. Fair enough. Manual says "do not bend pipe or put in
any angles until 300mm from tundish). Mine is about 160mm
3 - Testing pressure valve and drainage? Never heard/saw it tested.
Guy never checked the exit pipework - I know because the back door was
locked.

But - he did tidy up after him and remove the old crap.

But why so slow!? Just to make a days job out of it IMO. *******.
I'mnot sure I could have done in the time he did - but I'm no expert!
I mean - it took 2 hours to drain the old tank. WHY!!!!? I know damn
well I could have done that in 10-20 mins!!

Rant over.

I've learned a lot (mainly from you guys here - many many thanks - but
also learned that some tradesman (and employees of big plumber
company) are a bunch of gits. Only go on recommendations from now on!

But job done - and no leaks!

RJ

(RJ) wrote in message . com...
Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

"RJ" wrote in message
om...

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

Thermal stores are available for far less than £700.

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

Blimey. That'd buy me for a week! I've been thinking about putting my
prices up.....

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

IMM wrote:

Thermal stores are available for far less than £700.

Recommendations?

Whilst on the subject, scaling seems to be an issue, at least in
the minds of blurb writers. Any useful experiences?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Thermal stores are available for far less than £700.

Recommendations?

On price? The Albion Mainsflow DHW Mainflow can be obtained for around £500
(this has an internal heat transfer coil), as can the Range Cylinders
thermal store.

£500 for an Ariston unvented cylinder is at the bottom end of the quality
range.

Whilst on the subject, scaling seems to be an issue, at least in
the minds of blurb writers. Any useful experiences?

You should put on the cold feed a phosphor decaling canister. This applies
to unvented cylinders, thermal stores, heat banks and combi's.

With a heat bank using an external plate heat exchanger, it is a matter of
valving off , removing the plate and descaling it. A very easy almost DIY
job.

Chris J Dixon wrote in
:


Whilst on the subject, scaling seems to be an issue, at least in
the minds of blurb writers. Any useful experiences?

Going fishing?

mike r

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

So - went with plumber.

Hmmm.

Never ever ever again. Not slagging off all plumbers as I'm sure you
guys aren't like this - but 20-30 visits to van (minimum) at slow
walking pace, and taking ages over doing anything - it gets put in in
8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

WHAT!? Not really fair.

DIdn't you have a fixed price on the labour.


Oh - and do you need to be qualified to put it in? No offence to the
advice - but no - it was easily doable by a good DIYer.

Yes of course it is. None of this is rocket science.


And the extra
tests for building regs and unvented systems? What test!?

1 - big label: "THIS MUST BE EARTHED" and an earth bolt underneath.
No cable...

It should be bonded.


2 - Tundish must be seen. (old one couldn't) - so he moved it so it
could be seen. Fair enough. Manual says "do not bend pipe or put in
any angles until 300mm from tundish). Mine is about 160mm

That's clearly laid out in the approved docs to the building
regulations, IIRC. It doesn't have the force of law but is
recommended good practice.

3 - Testing pressure valve and drainage? Never heard/saw it tested.
Guy never checked the exit pipework - I know because the back door was
locked.

But - he did tidy up after him and remove the old crap.

Something, I suppose. Realistically, this was a day's work, but I
would have expected a better job.




But why so slow!? Just to make a days job out of it IMO. *******.
I'mnot sure I could have done in the time he did - but I'm no expert!
I mean - it took 2 hours to drain the old tank. WHY!!!!? I know damn
well I could have done that in 10-20 mins!!

Rant over.

I've learned a lot (mainly from you guys here - many many thanks - but
also learned that some tradesman (and employees of big plumber
company) are a bunch of gits. Only go on recommendations from now on!

But job done - and no leaks!

RJ

(RJ) wrote in message . com...
Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:26:16 +0000, PoP wrote:

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

Blimey. That'd buy me for a week! I've been thinking about putting my
prices up.....

Just remember. Why does a dog lick its balls.........??



PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 19:49:07 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Just remember. Why does a dog lick its balls.........??

Err, dunno. However if you are suggesting you'll give me 500 notes to
lick a dogs balls, forget it. And I know this is the DIY forum but I'm
afraid I wouldn't be able to lick my own.....

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.