We're having some extension work done and it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving space in the house.

Any views on either of these? Or alternatives? Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

Dave

In message , Dave
writes
We're having some extension work done and it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving space in the house.

Any views on either of these? Or alternatives? Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

You'd better bookmark my website if you buy a Suprima, do a google on
Suprima lockout problems.
--
geoff

"Dave" wrote in message
...

We're having some extension work done and
it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema
100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving
space in the house.

Any views on either of these?

Suprima? Avoid like the plague.

Megaflow? Avoid too. Superior alternative is a heat bank. Do a Google on
this ng on "pandora", See: http://www.heatweb.com for an explaination.

Christian on this ng, is fitting a heat bank right now and using a
Worcster-Bosch Greenstar high efficiency condensing boiler to heat it. Both
v good choices. A Glow Worm 30SXi is a good boiler and well priced and will
mate to the Pandora Heat bank at http://www.discountedheating.co.uk

- BTU/h - 104.400
- kW - 30.6
- fronst protection
- Fully Modulating
Price: £547.00 £642.73 Including VAT & delivery

Another alternative is the Gledhill Systemate with the Switch electric
backup.
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/sm2000.htm

With the Glow Worm 30HXi heating boiler
• BTU's - 95.000
• kW - 27.8
• Built In Frost Protection
• Fully Modulating
Price £663.88 Including VAT & delivery

The Systemate controls the boiler and even has the CH pump inside the
casing, complete with frost control. The insulation of these unit is very
heavy (even under the cylinders it is insulated) and suitable for garages.
It also has "very" smart self adaptive microprocessor based controls.

Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

Just have decent frost protection.



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 23:58:44 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.



That's odd. I could have sworn that these take up too much space and
that you have a combi. At least you did according to a post on 11th
September when you had an Ariston Microgenus.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

We're having some extension work done and
it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema
100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving
space in the house.

Any views on either of these?

Suprima? Avoid like the plague.

Megaflow? Avoid too. Superior alternative is a heat bank. Do a Google
on
this ng on "pandora", See: http://www.heatweb.com for an explaination.

Christian on this ng, is fitting a heat bank right now and using a
Worcster-Bosch Greenstar high efficiency condensing boiler to heat it.
Both
v good choices. A Glow Worm 30SXi is a good boiler and well priced and
will
mate to the Pandora Heat bank at http://www.discountedheating.co.uk

- BTU/h - 104.400
- kW - 30.6
- fronst protection
- Fully Modulating
Price: £547.00 £642.73 Including VAT & delivery

Another alternative is the Gledhill Systemate with the Switch electric
backup.
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/sm2000.htm

With the Glow Worm 30HXi heating boiler
• BTU's - 95.000
• kW - 27.8
• Built In Frost Protection
• Fully Modulating
Price £663.88 Including VAT & delivery

The Systemate controls the boiler and even has the CH pump inside the
casing, complete with frost control. The insulation of these unit is very
heavy (even under the cylinders it is insulated) and suitable for garages.
It also has "very" smart self adaptive microprocessor based controls.

Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when
mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so
the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches
temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

As you want a boiler and cylinder try the Gledhill Gulfstream 2000:
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/gulfstream.htm



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Also look at the Boilermate, however with
the Systemate is better when mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated
directly from the boiler, so the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down
when the house reaches temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate
with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

That's odd. I could have sworn that these take up too much space and
that you have a combi. At least you did according to a post on 11th
September when you had an Ariston Microgenus.

I have two place . In my London pad I have a Microgenus. because of the
location the smallest cased combi around had to go in and the Ariston was
one of two choices. There are more now. Also a plume could not be
tolerated.

The Systemate is the most advanced heat bank around.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 19/11/2003

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 15:16:03 +0000, Dave wrote:

We're having some extension work done and it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving space in the house.

Any views on either of these? Or alternatives? Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?


The garage might well be fine for the space to put the equipment.

There are cheaper alternatives to the Megaflow which work as well
if not better [Albion, Santon]. Megaflow are the leading brand.
Most of the other makes have a seperate expansion vessel external to the
tank which usual fits on top quite neatly.

The boiler is subject to electronic problems. Other makes and models might
have greater reliability and condensing models greater efficiency aswell.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In article , geoff
writes
In message , Dave
writes
We're having some extension work done and it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving space in the house.

Any views on either of these? Or alternatives? Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

You'd better bookmark my website if you buy a Suprima, do a google on
Suprima lockout problems.

Ditto...proud owner of a Suprima...not:-((....
--
Tony Sayer

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:18:29 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Also look at the Boilermate, however with
the Systemate is better when mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated
directly from the boiler, so the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down
when the house reaches temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate
with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

That's odd. I could have sworn that these take up too much space and
that you have a combi. At least you did according to a post on 11th
September when you had an Ariston Microgenus.

I have two place . In my London pad I have a Microgenus. because of the
location the smallest cased combi around had to go in and the Ariston was
one of two choices. There are more now. Also a plume could not be
tolerated.


Oh I see.

Presumably the second one is a backup in case something goes wrong
with the first one. Did it come with a three year warranty? :-)


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 00:18:29 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Also look at the Boilermate, however with
the Systemate is better when mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated
directly from the boiler, so the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down
when the house reaches temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate
with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

That's odd. I could have sworn that these take up too much space and
that you have a combi. At least you did according to a post on 11th
September when you had an Ariston Microgenus.

I have two place . In my London pad I have a Microgenus. because of the
location the smallest cased combi around had to go in and the Ariston was
one of two choices. There are more now. Also a plume could not be
tolerated.

Oh I see.

That is encouraging.

Presumably the second one is a backup in case something goes wrong
with the first one. Did it come with a three year warranty? :-)

You are right. If something is wrong with one place I can go to the other.
No the Ariston was 2 years and 5 years for the plate heat exchanger. Near
enough though.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

We're having some extension work done and
it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema
100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving
space in the house.

Any views on either of these?

Suprima? Avoid like the plague.

Megaflow? Avoid too. Superior alternative is a heat bank. Do a Google
on
this ng on "pandora", See: http://www.heatweb.com for an explaination.

Christian on this ng, is fitting a heat bank right now and using a
Worcster-Bosch Greenstar high efficiency condensing boiler to heat it.
Both
v good choices. A Glow Worm 30SXi is a good boiler and well priced and
will
mate to the Pandora Heat bank at http://www.discountedheating.co.uk

- BTU/h - 104.400
- kW - 30.6
- fronst protection
- Fully Modulating
Price: £547.00 £642.73 Including VAT & delivery

Another alternative is the Gledhill Systemate with the Switch electric
backup.
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/sm2000.htm

With the Glow Worm 30HXi heating boiler
. BTU's - 95.000
. kW - 27.8
. Built In Frost Protection
. Fully Modulating
Price £663.88 Including VAT & delivery

The Systemate controls the boiler and even has the CH pump inside the
casing, complete with frost control. The insulation of these unit is very
heavy (even under the cylinders it is insulated) and suitable for garages.
It also has "very" smart self adaptive microprocessor based controls.

Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when
mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so
the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches
temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

Just have decent frost protection.



Thanks to all - this group may have saved me from making an expensive
mistake!

I'd heard of heat banks but didn't know what they were. They look the ideal
solution, what's the downside?

Dave S

"Dave" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

We're having some extension work done and
it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema
100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving
space in the house.

Any views on either of these?

Suprima? Avoid like the plague.

Megaflow? Avoid too. Superior alternative is a heat bank. Do a Google
on
this ng on "pandora", See: http://www.heatweb.com for an explaination.

Christian on this ng, is fitting a heat bank right now and using a
Worcster-Bosch Greenstar high efficiency condensing boiler to heat it.
Both
v good choices. A Glow Worm 30SXi is a good boiler and well priced and
will
mate to the Pandora Heat bank at http://www.discountedheating.co.uk

- BTU/h - 104.400
- kW - 30.6
- fronst protection
- Fully Modulating
Price: £547.00 £642.73 Including VAT & delivery

Another alternative is the Gledhill Systemate with the Switch electric
backup.
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/sm2000.htm

With the Glow Worm 30HXi heating boiler
. BTU's - 95.000
. kW - 27.8
. Built In Frost Protection
. Fully Modulating
Price £663.88 Including VAT & delivery

The Systemate controls the boiler and even has the CH pump inside the
casing, complete with frost control. The insulation of these unit is
very
heavy (even under the cylinders it is insulated) and suitable for
garages.
It also has "very" smart self adaptive microprocessor based controls.

Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when
mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so
the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches
temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and
it
works brilliantly.

Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

Just have decent frost protection.



Thanks to all - this group may have saved me from making an expensive
mistake!

I'd heard of heat banks but didn't know what they were. They look the
ideal
solution, what's the downside?

Compared to unvented cylinders? None really. As long as the flowrate
delivers, which it will, it will work very well.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:05:27 +0000, Dave wrote:


"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave" wrote in message
...

We're having some extension work done and
it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema
100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving
space in the house.

Any views on either of these?

Suprima? Avoid like the plague.

Megaflow? Avoid too. Superior alternative is a heat bank. Do a Google
on
this ng on "pandora", See: http://www.heatweb.com for an explaination.

Christian on this ng, is fitting a heat bank right now and using a
Worcster-Bosch Greenstar high efficiency condensing boiler to heat it.
Both
v good choices. A Glow Worm 30SXi is a good boiler and well priced and
will
mate to the Pandora Heat bank at http://www.discountedheating.co.uk

- BTU/h - 104.400
- kW - 30.6
- fronst protection
- Fully Modulating
Price: £547.00 £642.73 Including VAT & delivery

Another alternative is the Gledhill Systemate with the Switch electric
backup.
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/sm2000.htm

With the Glow Worm 30HXi heating boiler
. BTU's - 95.000
. kW - 27.8
. Built In Frost Protection
. Fully Modulating
Price £663.88 Including VAT & delivery

The Systemate controls the boiler and even has the CH pump inside the
casing, complete with frost control. The insulation of these unit is very
heavy (even under the cylinders it is insulated) and suitable for garages.
It also has "very" smart self adaptive microprocessor based controls.

Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when
mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so
the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches
temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.

Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

Just have decent frost protection.



Thanks to all - this group may have saved me from making an expensive
mistake!

I'd heard of heat banks but didn't know what they were. They look the ideal
solution, what's the downside?

In the unvented cylinder the boiler heats the HW indirectly (just like a
vented conventional copper cylinder).

With a thermal store the boiler directly heats all the water in the
cylinder. HW is produce when mains cold flows through a heat exchanger in the
cylinder and comes out hot. Boilermate is a brand I know of.

There is not a lot to choose between the methods on cost.

Pros for sto
Can be legally fitted without a building notice by uncertified installers.
Can be fitted with extra heat exchangers to provide lower temp water for
underfloor heating or to connect to a solar panel.

Cons for sto
Probably doubles the ammount of primary circuit water,
so you will need a larger or additional expansion vessel and two lots of
corrosion inhibitor and any other chemicals as needed.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
Thanks to all - this group may have saved me from making an expensive
mistake!

I'd heard of heat banks but didn't know
what they were. They look the ideal
solution, what's the downside?

In the unvented cylinder the boiler heats the
HW indirectly (just like a
vented conventional copper cylinder).
With a thermal store the boiler directly
heats all the water in the
cylinder.

Some, e.g., the DPS Pandora and my Systemate heat the store indirectly.
Some are actually pressurised, like an unvented cylinder, but these are
rare.

HW is produce when mains cold flows
through a heat exchanger in the
cylinder and comes out hot. Boilermate is
a brand I know of.

Most now have an external plate heat exchanger.

There is not a lot to choose between the methods on cost.

Pros for store [heat bank]:
Can be legally fitted without a building notice by uncertified installers.
Can be fitted with extra heat exchangers to provide lower temp water for
underfloor heating or to connect to a solar panel.

Cons for store [heat bank]:
Probably doubles the ammount of primary circuit water,

That is not a con?

so you will need a larger or additional expansion vessel and two lots of
corrosion inhibitor and any other chemicals as needed.

Larger expansion vessel? only if the whole cylinder is pressurised, which is
rare. With the Pandora and Systemate having their own heat transfer coils,
this is not a problem. It is also not a problem with an open vented heat
bank too. It is true that a couple of 1 litre cans of inhibitor has to be
used in the heat banks stored water. Which is a "very" minor cost not worth
considering.

A better assessement:

Advantages of Heat-Banks



§ Instant high pressure hot water - When the thermal-store has
reached the set temperature, water is delivered instantly at the taps.



§ Usable hot water in a matter of minutes - when using a boiler
flow/return blending valve.



§ Very high water flow-rate - The high-end heat-banks have a
flow-rate up to 45 litres/min.



§ Operates on low incoming pressures - Requires a supply pressure of
1 bar to obtain a good flow-rate.



§ Long efficient boiler burn - Reduces boiler on-off cycling
increasing efficiency. Inefficient boiler cycling is no longer a major
problem with boilers with forced flues.



§ Maintains optimum boiler temperature range - If a blending valve
on the boilers flow and return is used, it will deliver only the required
high temperature to the heat banks, but also maintain the flow/return
temperature differential.



§ Combines the output of the stored water and the boiler - Some
versions can do this.



§ Cylinder may be smaller for a similar performance



§ Cylinder at low pressure - Unlike an unvented cylinder it does not
store water at high pressures. Although some version do.

§ Fast cylinder recovery rate - When the boiler is connected
directly to the heat-bank or an indirect coil, the recovery rate is rapid.



§ Legionella bacteria eliminated - The Legionella bacteria cannot
survive in the high temperature sealed conditions of a heat-bank.



§ No scale build-up in heat-bank - Containing primary and not
secondary fresh water, scale does not build-up inside the heat-bank.



§ Cold water storage eliminated - No need for cold water storage
tanks.



§ Solar heating storage - Water heated via solar panels may be
stored in the heat-bank via a solar coil.



§ Easy maintenance - If an external plate heat exchanger requires
cleaning or replacing it is a matter of draining down the heat-bank, or
closing isolating vales, and unscrewing the plate heat-exchanger. In some
rare instances plate heat-exchangers are fitted directly inside the
heat-bank preventing on-site maintenance.



§ Easy to improve hot water flowrates - By simply adding additional
plate heat-exchangers in parallel, hot water flow rates may be improved.
Retrofit additions are possible if extra bathrooms or showers are installed.



§ Stored water vessel need not be cylindrical - As no internal coil
is used for hot water heat transfer the stored water vessel may be any
shape, as opposed to a thermal store which has to be cylindrical for maximum
efficiency. This has advantages where space is limited, promoting excellent
packaging.



Disadvantages of Heat-Banks



§ The store needs be fully up to temperature to supply baths -
Before any hot water is drawn off, the heat-bank must be up to temperature.
Many later versions use a blending valve on the return to the boiler to
ensure only up to temperature water is pumped into the store by the boiler.
This prevents agitation of the stored water, and aiding heat stratification
within the store giving useful water at the top of the store within a very
shot time.

§ May not take full advantage of a condensing boiler - Maintaining
the stored water at 75o to 80oC results in a generally high boiler return
temperature. This will not take full advantage of a condensing boiler,
which increases in efficiency with lower return temperatures. With the
superior heat stratification of taller cylinders this problem will be
reduced. Condensing boilers with a high operational flow and return
temperature differential are best suited to thermal stores and heat banks.
Fortunately most have a wide temperature differential.



§ Lower water temperatures with fast flow-rates - As with Combi
boilers, fast flow-rates through the plate heat-exchanger results in lower
water temperatures. This is not so pronounced with heat-banks as with
thermal-stores.



§ More controls - An extra pump, thermostatic blending valve, flow
switch and thermostatic controls are required over a conventional cylinder.
An unvented cylinder system requires extra pressure controls.



§ Heat loss - Storing water at high temperatures is not efficient as
heat loss is more pronounced. Heat-banks are more efficient when constantly
used being less efficient when used in houses of infrequent occupation.
Some Gledhill heat banks have super high levels of insulation, even under
the cylinders, negating this point.






---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 19/11/2003

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
Thanks to all - this group may have saved me from making an expensive
mistake!

I'd heard of heat banks but didn't know
what they were. They look the ideal
solution, what's the downside?

In the unvented cylinder the boiler heats the
HW indirectly (just like a
vented conventional copper cylinder).
With a thermal store the boiler directly
heats all the water in the
cylinder.

Some, e.g., the DPS Pandora and my Systemate heat the store indirectly.
Some are actually pressurised, like an unvented cylinder, but these are
rare.

HW is produce when mains cold flows
through a heat exchanger in the
cylinder and comes out hot. Boilermate is
a brand I know of.

Most now have an external plate heat exchanger.

There is not a lot to choose between the methods on cost.

Pros for store [heat bank]:
Can be legally fitted without a building notice by uncertified installers.
Can be fitted with extra heat exchangers to provide lower temp water for
underfloor heating or to connect to a solar panel.

Cons for store [heat bank]:
Probably doubles the ammount of primary circuit water,

That is not a con?

so you will need a larger or additional expansion vessel and two lots of
corrosion inhibitor and any other chemicals as needed.

Larger expansion vessel? only if the whole cylinder is pressurised, which is
rare. With the Pandora and Systemate having their own heat transfer coils,
this is not a problem. It is also not a problem with an open vented heat
bank too. It is true that a couple of 1 litre cans of inhibitor has to be
used in the heat banks stored water. Which is a "very" minor cost not worth
considering.

A better assessement:

Advantages of Heat-Banks

§ Instant high pressure hot water - When the thermal-store has
reached the set temperature, water is delivered instantly at the taps.

§ Usable hot water in a matter of minutes - when using a boiler
flow/return blending valve.

§ Very high water flow-rate - The high-end heat-banks have a
flow-rate up to 45 litres/min.

§ Operates on low incoming pressures - Requires a supply pressure of
1 bar to obtain a good flow-rate.

§ Long efficient boiler burn - Reduces boiler on-off cycling
increasing efficiency. Inefficient boiler cycling is no longer a major
problem with boilers with forced flues.

§ Maintains optimum boiler temperature range - If a blending valve
on the boilers flow and return is used, it will deliver only the required
high temperature to the heat banks, but also maintain the flow/return
temperature differential.

§ Combines the output of the stored water and the boiler - Some
versions can do this.

§ Cylinder may be smaller for a similar performance

§ Cylinder at low pressure - Unlike an unvented cylinder it does not
store water at high pressures. Although some version do.

§ Fast cylinder recovery rate - When the boiler is connected
directly to the heat-bank or an indirect coil, the recovery rate is rapid.

§ Legionella bacteria eliminated - The Legionella bacteria cannot
survive in the high temperature sealed conditions of a heat-bank.

§ No scale build-up in heat-bank - Containing primary and not
secondary fresh water, scale does not build-up inside the heat-bank.

§ Cold water storage eliminated - No need for cold water storage
tanks.

§ Solar heating storage - Water heated via solar panels may be
stored in the heat-bank via a solar coil.

§ Easy maintenance - If an external plate heat exchanger requires
cleaning or replacing it is a matter of draining down the heat-bank, or
closing isolating vales, and unscrewing the plate heat-exchanger. In some
rare instances plate heat-exchangers are fitted directly inside the
heat-bank preventing on-site maintenance.

§ Easy to improve hot water flowrates - By simply adding additional
plate heat-exchangers in parallel, hot water flow rates may be improved.
Retrofit additions are possible if extra bathrooms or showers are installed.

§ Stored water vessel need not be cylindrical - As no internal coil
is used for hot water heat transfer the stored water vessel may be any
shape, as opposed to a thermal store which has to be cylindrical for maximum
efficiency. This has advantages where space is limited, promoting excellent
packaging.

Disadvantages of Heat-Banks

§ The store needs be fully up to temperature to supply baths -
Before any hot water is drawn off, the heat-bank must be up to temperature.
Many later versions use a blending valve on the return to the boiler to
ensure only up to temperature water is pumped into the store by the boiler.
This prevents agitation of the stored water, and aiding heat stratification
within the store giving useful water at the top of the store within a very
shot time.

§ May not take full advantage of a condensing boiler - Maintaining
the stored water at 75o to 80oC results in a generally high boiler return
temperature. This will not take full advantage of a condensing boiler,
which increases in efficiency with lower return temperatures. With the
superior heat stratification of taller cylinders this problem will be
reduced. Condensing boilers with a high operational flow and return
temperature differential are best suited to thermal stores and heat banks.
Fortunately most have a wide temperature differential.

§ Lower water temperatures with fast flow-rates - As with Combi
boilers, fast flow-rates through the plate heat-exchanger results in lower
water temperatures. This is not so pronounced with heat-banks as with
thermal-stores.

§ More controls - An extra pump, thermostatic blending valve, flow
switch and thermostatic controls are required over a conventional cylinder.
An unvented cylinder system requires extra pressure controls.

§ Heat loss - Storing water at high temperatures is not efficient as
heat loss is more pronounced. Heat-banks are more efficient when constantly
used being less efficient when used in houses of infrequent occupation. Some
Gledhill heat banks have super high levels of insulation, even under the
cylinders, negating this point.



---
--

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In message , David Hemmings
writes
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 11:39:25 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , geoff
writes
In message , Dave
writes
We're having some extension work done and it involves replacing the boiler
and moving the bathroom.
A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the garage
wall with a Megaflow next to it and therefore saving space in the house.

Any views on either of these? Or alternatives? Or of having boiler/cylinder
in a garage?

You'd better bookmark my website if you buy a Suprima, do a google on
Suprima lockout problems.

Ditto...proud owner of a Suprima...not:-((....

yeah, fsking lockout problems............
need a new reset button soon, almost worn the bloody thing out


Www.cetltd.com

Potterton actually changed the reset button to a more resilient design
with the later 510216 pcb... I wonder why
--
geoff

Ed Sirett wrote:

With a thermal store the boiler directly heats all the water in the
cylinder. HW is produce when mains cold flows through a heat exchanger in the
cylinder and comes out hot. Boilermate is a brand I know of.

There is not a lot to choose between the methods on cost.

Pros for sto
Can be legally fitted without a building notice by uncertified installers.
Can be fitted with extra heat exchangers to provide lower temp water for
underfloor heating or to connect to a solar panel.

Cons for sto
Probably doubles the ammount of primary circuit water,
so you will need a larger or additional expansion vessel and two lots of
corrosion inhibitor and any other chemicals as needed.

I am interested in such a system, as I am currently looking at
the options to cope with the intended fitting of a new large
bath, beyond the capacity of my existing hot (and cold) tanks
which can't even really cope with the existing one.

As my boiler is around 20 years old, replacement is probably due.

I'm not sure I can fit a larger hot tank in the airing cupboard
(in the garage with the boiler might work), and would also like
to have better shower flow than the present gravity system.
Fitting a bigger cold tank might present weight problems, and I
am not over keen on pumps.

My existing cold supply seems to have a reasonable flow rate, but
appears to be piped in 15 mm from the stopcock, and it is not
really practicable to replace this without scrapping the kitchen,
which is not planned for a few years yet,

I have to confess that I don't intend to do the plumbing work
myself, and wonder how much experience the average installer will
have of these less mainstream solutions.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the garage


The Suprema is a great wee boiler...there has been an update on the PCB due to intermittant lockout problems...Gas Engineers love to work on them and they are easy to repair and get parts for...also servicing is a real breeze...another equally great wee boiler is the ideal classic range....

In message , gastec
writes

A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the
garage

It's Suprima, not Suprema



The Suprema is a great wee boiler...there has been an update on the PCB
due to intermittant lockout problems...

Which, from the feedback I'm getting is no better than the old design of
boards

Gas Engineers love to work on
them and they are easy to repair and get parts for...

Yeah - the retail price of the new pcb is £215 incl VAT

Most of the fitters I know refuse to install Potterton boilers any more
.... and yes, I know they're now owned by Baxi

also servicing is
a real breeze...another equally great wee boiler is the ideal classic
range....


Are you actually CORGI registered ?


--
geoff

"gastec" wrote in message
...

A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the
garage

The Suprema is a great wee boiler...there has been an update on the PCB
due to intermittant lockout problems...Gas Engineers love to work on
them and they are easy to repair and get parts for...also servicing is
a real breeze...another equally great wee boiler is the ideal classic
range....

The Suprima is a waste of expensive time. See Maxie's comments. Megaflow?
Another waste of time. Go for a heat bank.

"gastec" wrote in message
...

A guy recommended having a Potterton Suprema 100k BTU boiler on the
garage


The Suprema is a great wee boiler...there has been an update on the PCB
due to intermittant lockout problems...Gas Engineers love to work on
them and they are easy to repair and get parts for...also servicing is
a real breeze...

Where can i send the bill for a keyboard flooded with coffee due to
uncontrollable laughter?