Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower, make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there? ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:

Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower, make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there? ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David


Two points.

1) Do make sure that your mains water supply is good enough in terms
of flow rate before committing to this, because it could otherwise be
an expensive mistake. I fitted a mains pressure capable cylinder a
year ago with the eventual intention of making it unvented.
However, the water supply rate is only 12-15 litres per minute and
that is not adequate as far as I am concerned. To upgrade the main
would involve replacing a fairly long length of pipe on my property
and relaying the drive - total cost over £5k. I will do that
eventually, but I would have hated to install an unvented tank only to
discover that I had made a system that works well work poorly.

2) To install an unvented cylinder, Building Regulations require that
you use an Institute of Plumbing trained and approved plumber. Not a
DIY job, I am afraid.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"vortex2" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a
modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower,
make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there? ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?

Avoid. Superior alternative is a heat bank. Do a Google on this ng on
"pandora", See: http://www.heatweb.com for an explaination of heat banks.

Christian on this ng, is fitting a heat bank right now and using a
Worcster-Bosch Greenstar high efficiency condensing boiler to heat it. Both
very good choices. Another heat bank alternative is the Gledhill Systemate
with the Switch electric backup.
http://www.gledhill.net/docs/sm2000.htm

The Systemate controls the boiler and even has the CH pump inside the
casing, complete with frost control. The insulation of these unit is very
heavy (even under the cylinders it is insulated) and suitable for garages.
It also has "very" smart self adaptive microprocessor based controls.

Also look at the Boilermate, however with the Systemate is better when mated
to a condensing boiler as the CH is heated directly from the boiler, so the
Glow Worm will modulate the burner down when the house reaches temperature,
promoting efficiency. I have a Systemate with a condensing boiler and it
works brilliantly.



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Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there?
ARISTON, ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

My parents have a Heatrae Megaflo (unvented cylinder). I have a DPS Pandora
(heat bank). Both are excellent, well made devices that provide lashings of
high pressure, high flow water without the noise and unreliability of a
pump. I simply wouldn't have a hot water system that didn't provide stored
energy, mains pressure water.

Advantages of unvented vs heat bank:
1. Understood by many installers (certainly not all of them!)
2. Higher potential flow rate (70 lpm vs 40 lpm)
3. Better heat stratification (runs cold suddenly instead of going tepid for
a while)
4. Lower return temperature suits condensing boilers
5. Will provide hot water during power failure (won't reheat, though)
6. Many suppliers, off the shelf

Advantages of heat bank vs unvented
1. Easy DIY installation.
2. Actual DHW not stored, so can use as drinking water.
3. No overflow/pressure relief needed (easier to install in awkward places,
such as lofts or internal airing cupboards).
4. Less regular maintenance required.
5. Higher heat capacity for same volume.

Both types of systems can have electrical heating backup (immersion heater).
Both can use standard central heating controls. However, the heat bank
requires a high flow temperature. They have similar purchase costs, although
a heat bank would be cheaper to install as it simply requires 4 pipes to be
connected up (CH flow & return, cold in, hot out) and electricity connected.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there?
ARISTON, ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

My parents have a Heatrae Megaflo (unvented cylinder). I have a DPS
Pandora
(heat bank). Both are excellent, well made devices that provide lashings
of
high pressure, high flow water without the noise and unreliability of a
pump. I simply wouldn't have a hot water system that didn't provide stored
energy, mains pressure water.

Advantages of unvented vs heat bank:
1. Understood by many installers (certainly not all of them!)
2. Higher potential flow rate (70 lpm vs 40 lpm)

If your mains can provide that level of flow.

3. Better heat stratification (runs cold suddenly instead of going tepid
for
a while)

Not so. Heat banks can have the same stratification as an other cylinder.

4. Lower return temperature suits condensing boilers

Using a flow/return blending valve low temeratyres can be obtained for much
of the re-heat.

5. Will provide hot water during power failure (won't reheat, though)

So will a heat bank. A simple immersion is al that is needed in the
cylinder.

6. Many suppliers, off the shelf

Many suppliers of heat banks off-the-shelf: Range, Albion, Gledhill, and
many smaller companies too.

Advantages of heat bank vs unvented
1. Easy DIY installation.

yes.

2. Actual DHW not stored, so can use as drinking water.

yes. Also eliminates legionalla.

3. No overflow/pressure relief needed (easier to install in awkward
places,
such as lofts or internal airing cupboards).

yes.

4. Less regular maintenance required.

yes.

5. Higher heat capacity for same volume.

yes.

6. Works on low pressure
7. No pressure controls.

Both types of systems can have electrical heating backup (immersion
heater).
Both can use standard central heating controls. However, the heat bank
requires a high flow temperature. They have similar purchase costs,
although
a heat bank would be cheaper to install as it simply requires 4 pipes to
be
connected up (CH flow & return, cold in, hot out) and electricity
connected.

A recently gave a better assessement:

Advantages of Heat-Banks

§ Instant high pressure hot water - When the thermal-store has
reached the set temperature, water is delivered instantly at the taps.

§ Usable hot water in a matter of minutes - when using a boiler
flow/return blending valve.

§ Very high water flow-rate - The high-end heat-banks have a
flow-rate up to 45 litres/min.

§ Operates on low incoming pressures - Requires a supply pressure of
1 bar to obtain a good flow-rate.

§ Long efficient boiler burn - Reduces boiler on-off cycling
increasing efficiency. Inefficient boiler cycling is no longer a "major"
problem with boilers with forced flues, but wears out gas controls
prematurely.

§ Maintains optimum boiler temperature range - If a blending valve
on the boilers flow and return is used, it will deliver only the required
high temperature to the heat banks, but also maintain the flow/return
temperature differential.

§ Combines the output of the stored water and the boiler - Some
versions can do this.

§ Cylinder may be smaller for a similar performance

§ Cylinder at low pressure - Unlike an unvented cylinder it does not
store water at high pressures. Although some version do.

§ Fast cylinder recovery rate - When the boiler is connected
directly to the heat-bank or an indirect coil, the recovery rate is rapid.

§ Legionella bacteria eliminated - The Legionella bacteria cannot
survive in the high temperature sealed conditions of a heat-bank.

§ No scale build-up in heat-bank - Containing primary and not
secondary fresh water, scale does not build-up inside the heat-bank.

§ Cold water storage eliminated - No need for cold water storage
tanks.

§ Solar heating storage - Water heated via solar panels may be
stored in the heat-bank via a solar coil.

§ Easy maintenance - If an external plate heat exchanger requires
cleaning or replacing it is a matter of draining down the heat-bank, or
closing isolating vales, and unscrewing the plate heat-exchanger. In some
rare instances plate heat-exchangers are fitted directly inside the
heat-bank preventing on-site maintenance.

§ Easy to improve hot water flowrates - By simply adding additional
plate heat-exchangers in parallel, hot water flow rates may be improved.
Retrofit additions are possible if extra bathrooms or showers are installed.

§ Stored water vessel need not be cylindrical - As no internal coil
is used for hot water heat transfer the stored water vessel may be any
shape, as opposed to a thermal store which has to be cylindrical for maximum
efficiency. This has advantages where space is limited, promoting excellent
packaging.

Disadvantages of Heat-Banks

§ The store needs be fully up to temperature to supply baths -
Before any hot water is drawn off, the heat-bank must be up to temperature.
Many later versions use a blending valve on the return to the boiler to
ensure only up to temperature water is pumped into the store by the boiler.
This prevents agitation of the stored water, and aiding heat stratification
within the store giving useful water at the top of the store within a very
shot time.

§ May not take full advantage of a condensing boiler - Maintaining
the stored water at 75o to 80oC results in a generally high boiler return
temperature. This will not take full advantage of a condensing boiler,
which increases in efficiency with lower return temperatures. With the
superior heat stratification of taller cylinders this problem will be
reduced. Condensing boilers with a high operational flow and return
temperature differential are best suited to thermal stores and heat banks.
Fortunately most have a wide temperature differential.

§ Lower water temperatures with fast flow-rates - As with Combi
boilers, fast flow-rates through the plate heat-exchanger results in lower
water temperatures. This is not so pronounced with heat-banks as with
thermal-stores.

§ More controls - An extra pump, thermostatic blending valve, flow
switch and thermostatic controls are required over a conventional cylinder.
An unvented cylinder system requires extra pressure controls.

§ Heat loss - Storing water at high temperatures is not efficient as
heat loss is more pronounced. Heat-banks are more efficient when constantly
used being less efficient when used in houses of infrequent occupation. Some
Gledhill heat banks have super high levels of insulation, even under the
cylinders, negating this point.




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3. Better heat stratification (runs cold suddenly instead of going
tepid for a while)

Not so. Heat banks can have the same stratification as an other cylinder.

That isn't my experience. As expected, the flow through the heat exchanger
causes tepid water to enter the bottom at a rate greater than the energy is
withdrawn. This does lead to destratification as the same water cycles round
and a much slower rundown from high to low temperature. This can be overcome
by slightly oversizing, which isn't much of an issue due to the fact that
the energy storage is higher to begin with due to high store temperature. It
is also mitigated as a TMV is used on the output, so the output temperature
is steady until the heat bank water drops quite a lot of temperature.

5. Will provide hot water during power failure (won't reheat, though)

So will a heat bank. A simple immersion is al that is needed in the
cylinder.

Probably didn't explain properly. I meant during an electrical power
failure, not the failure of the boiler.

P.S. Some of your list assumes a direct type connection to the boiler,
rather than indirect coil. Some of the benefits are lost when an indirect
system is used. However, the indirect system has substantial advantages,
such as being able to use most modern boilers, which frequently require a
sealed pressurised primary system, and being able to place the boiler above
the level of the cylinder. You can also keep the circulating water separate,
which enables one part of the system to be drained down, with the other part
still in use, saving down time and the cost of replacing inhibitor
unnecessarily.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
3. Better heat stratification (runs cold suddenly instead of going
tepid for a while)

Not so. Heat banks can have the same stratification as an other
cylinder.

That isn't my experience. As expected, the flow through the heat exchanger
causes tepid water to enter the bottom at a rate greater than the energy
is
withdrawn.

I have a Gledhill which varies the pump speed to suit the hot water draw-off
temp of 55C. High flow when more taps are on and faster pump speed to
maintain the 55C. Not a problem. No blending valve or flow switch is
required.

This does lead to destratification as the same water cycles round
and a much slower rundown from high to low temperature. This can be
overcome
by slightly oversizing, which isn't much of an issue due to the fact that
the energy storage is higher to begin with due to high store temperature.
It
is also mitigated as a TMV is used on the output, so the output
temperature
is steady until the heat bank water drops quite a lot of temperature.

Have a flow switch on the pipe to the heavy hot water users (bath and
shower) when this switches in it brings in the boiler irrespective of what
the cylinder thermostats want. Use blending valve on the flow-/return and
only 75-80C water enters the cylinder, ensuring the hottest water at the
top.

5. Will provide hot water during power failure (won't reheat, though)

So will a heat bank. A simple immersion is al that is needed in the
cylinder.

Probably didn't explain properly. I meant during an electrical power
failure, not the failure of the boiler.

That is the same for just about everything in heating, unless you have an
electricless multi-point.

P.S. Some of your list assumes a direct type connection to the boiler,
rather than indirect coil. Some of the benefits are lost when an indirect
system is used.

Not to great extent, no. Using a quick recovery coil the length of the
stores cylinder will alleviate that.

However, the indirect system has substantial advantages,
such as being able to use most modern boilers, which frequently require a
sealed pressurised primary system, and being able to place the boiler
above
the level of the cylinder.

That is so. But some top of the range boilers can be open vented and
connected directly.

You can also keep the circulating water separate,
which enables one part of the system to be
drained down, with the other part
still in use, saving down time and the cost of replacing inhibitor
unnecessarily.

That is a very minor point and can be rectified by using simple isolation
valves.



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I have a Gledhill which varies the pump speed to suit the hot water
draw-off temp of 55C.

I can see how that would provide superior stratification performance. By
slowing the pump speed down, you can ensure that the water enters the bottom
almost as cold as the incoming mains, which maintains good temperature
differential. The only problem could be that without a TMV, the output
temperature may prove more variable (i.e. less responsive to flow rate /
incoming temperature changes). I might try turning the pump on mine down a
peg. If it can still maintain temperature at the full flow rate at the TMV
output, then I should get superior stratification performance.

As you have one, how much does the Systemate 2000 cost? It doesn't look
cheap.

Probably didn't explain properly. I meant during an electrical power
failure, not the failure of the boiler.

That is the same for just about everything in heating, unless you have an
electricless multi-point.

No, a standard gravity or unvented hot water cylinder can provide hot water
in the event of electrical failure. I don't consider it an important issue,
but maybe out in the sticks you might get power failures frequently. I'd
certainly be tempted to take a bath if I couldn't get on with what I was
doing due to mains failure.

That is so. But some top of the range boilers can be open vented and
connected directly.

Still a pain, though. Some, like the specific DPS model I have, won't accept
a boiler higher than themselves, as they have an integral vented expansion
vessel. Also, depending on how the water expansion/venting is handled, you
may not get the substantial benefits of sealed pressurised primary systems.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...

I have a Gledhill which varies the pump speed to suit the hot water
draw-off temp of 55C.

I can see how that would provide superior
stratification performance. By slowing the
pump speed down, you can ensure that the
water enters the bottom almost as cold as
the incoming mains, which maintains good temperature
differential. The only problem could be that
without a TMV, the output temperature may
prove more variable (i.e. less responsive to flow rate /
incoming temperature changes).

It is very accurate, controlled electronically.

As you have one, how much does the
Systemate 2000 cost? It doesn't look
cheap.

It is not. Everything is inside, even an the auto by-pass and all pumps.
No zone valves are used and the room stat is run back to the unit. It is
two parallel cylinders with a take off coil from the boiler. All you need
do is install a cheap condensing heating boiler. I also installed an
outside weather compensator. When heating the store the CH pump is switched
off until it reaches 64C. It is self adaptive, in that is learns how
quickly the boiler heats up the cylinders and then decides what temperature
to switch in the boiler in. It uses a microprocessor which is programmed.
It stores water at 80C and decides when to bring in the boiler on cooling.
It has error codes and various temps can be see by pressing various buttons
on the PCB board and also frost control and periodically turns the CH pump
in summer too. It comes with an external pressure vessel for the CH
circuit. The store water has a small header tank which can have an overflow
or not. The unit is highly insulated.

Cost? I believe somewhere between £750 and 1,000. I paid £100 for two,
(well I bought 4 and fitted two in friends and reelatives houses) having one
for a spare in the loft next to the working one. These were fitted in
houses by a contractor company, who installed the wrong units. They were
installed for a month or so, until the client spotted they were the wrong
units, so they were taken out before the houses were sold/let. They have
had no real use.

Gledhill, like Elson and Powermax when IMI, prefer to deal with large
contractors doing development work, that is why they are not a household
name and not know to small plumbing/heating companies, yet housing estates
are full of them. At one time they would not sell to individuals, although
would sell to selfbuilders. T&P can source them, but I'm not sure it would
be the best deal.

Probably didn't explain properly. I meant
during an electrical power
failure, not the failure of the boiler.

That is the same for just about everything
in heating, unless you have an
electricless multi-point.

No, a standard gravity or unvented hot water
cylinder can provide hot water in the event
of electrical failure. I don't consider it an important issue,
but maybe out in the sticks you might get power
failures frequently. I'd certainly be tempted to take
a bath if I couldn't get on with what I was
doing due to mains failure.

Hybrid heat banks/thermal stores are available that use an immersed pre-heat
coil as a pre-heat and a pump driven plate heat exchanger. cold water
enters the coil, out and into the plate heat exchanger. This will produce
hot water in a power cut. It also prevents the plate heat exchanger pump
cutting in when a tap is switched on for a second or two; as with the down
market combi's. The immersed coil will provided low flow rate hot water and
the plate heat exchanger pump cuts in with high flows. The total flow rate
is naturally very high.




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On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:

Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower, make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there? ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David


David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.

Trevor.

"Trevor Budd" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:

Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a
modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower,
make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there?
ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David


David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.

Except a DIYer can't fit one.


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Trevor Budd wrote:

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:


Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower, make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there? ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David



David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.


The end result is very good, and these things are all made to rogourous
uqailty, generally from stainless steel. They shgold be checked over by
a plumber who knows what they are doing, and the safety piping needs
specail treament, but if yu can vebear the cost of connecting it, its
IMHO the best technical solution. Not cheap tho. Lots of pipework and
installation issues.



Trevor.

IMM wrote:

"Trevor Budd" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:


Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a

modern

indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower,

make

space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there?

ARISTON,

ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David


David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.


Except a DIYer can't fit one.


A DIYer can, but you are supposed to get the installation signed off by
a registered jobsworth.



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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"Trevor Budd" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:


Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a

modern

indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower,

make

space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there?

ARISTON,

ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David


David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.


Except a DIYer can't fit one.

A DIYer can, but you are supposed to get the installation signed off by
a registered jobsworth.

I believe you can be prosecuted if you fit one and are not approved. You
can also rob a bank, but they prosecute you for that too.



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"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Trevor Budd wrote:

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:


Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a
modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower,
make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there?
ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David



David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.


The end result is very good, and these things are all made to rogourous
uqailty, generally from stainless steel. They shgold be checked over by
a plumber who knows what they are doing,

They have to be BBA approved!!!!!

and the safety piping needs
specail treament,

The overflow is 28mm, and most of them have to be "serviced" every year.

but if yu can vebear the cost of connecting it, its
IMHO the best technical solution. Not cheap tho. Lots of pipework and
installation issues.

The best technical solution, and by far the safest, is the heat bank. But
you had never heard of them when you fitted your unvented cylinder. That is
sad.


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On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 12:15:43 +0000, Trevor Budd wrote:

On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 13:06:25 -0000, "vortex2"
wrote:

Hi,

I'm seriously contemplating upgrading my domestic h/w supply to use a modern
indirect unvented cylinder.

Goal is to increase pressure, eliminate requirement for a power shower, make
space for an attic conversion (through elimination of header tank) and
generally apply 21st century technology instead of 19th.

Any opinions on relative merits of the various brands out there? ARISTON,
ALBION, TITAN, HEATRAE, SANTON or others?

Any horror stories worth sharing?


David


David,

I had an Albion Stainless 150ltr unvented cylinder fitted on Friday.

I'd recommend it - lots of piping hot water at high pressure.

The Albion Stainless isn't pre-plumbed with all the valves and
fittings so it took my plumber a while to pipe it up. He made a very
neat job of it though.

I understand that the Titan Flomaster and Heatrae Sadia Megaflo are
pre-plumbed which may make for an easier installation.

Not last time I fitted one, but they may have changed in the last 18
months.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...

rogourous uqailty

C|NK :-)

Tehri quailty mystse si yullf cetrifeid ot IOS 1090, premusably.

It really is about time you fixed that intermittent fault on your keyboard,
you know.

--
Andy

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...

rogourous uqailty

C|NK :-)

Tehri quailty mystse si yullf cetrifeid ot IOS 1090, premusably.

It really is about time you fixed that intermittent fault on your
keyboard,
you know.

Keyboard? Nothing wrong with that. It's in his head.


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003

IMM wrote:

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...


rogourous uqailty

C|NK :-)

Tehri quailty mystse si yullf cetrifeid ot IOS 1090, premusably.

It really is about time you fixed that intermittent fault on your

keyboard,

you know.


Keyboard? Nothing wrong with that. It's in his head.



My god. I have seen IMM post a complete sentence, which though false, is
almost correctly phrased and grammatically correct?

Perhaps if we persist, he will learn to write English?.

PS I did have a serious mouse problem. Sometimes I can't be **ed to
correct typos in stuff done at 100wpm plus with two fingers (normally
reserved for IMM) with a fag hanging off one. Particularly when it's not
that important anyway...



---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...


rogourous uqailty

C|NK :-)

Tehri quailty mystse si yullf cetrifeid ot IOS 1090, premusably.

It really is about time you fixed that intermittent fault on your

keyboard,

you know.


Keyboard? Nothing wrong with that. It's in his head.



My god. I have seen IMM post a complete sentence, which though false, is
almost correctly phrased and grammatically correct?

Perhaps if we persist, he will learn to write English?.

PS I did have a serious mouse problem. Sometimes I can't be **ed to
correct typos in stuff done at 100wpm plus with two fingers (normally
reserved for IMM) with a fag hanging off one. Particularly when it's not
that important anyway...

Gosh! Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003

In message , IMM
writes

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...

rogourous uqailty

C|NK :-)

Tehri quailty mystse si yullf cetrifeid ot IOS 1090, premusably.

It really is about time you fixed that intermittent fault on your
keyboard,
you know.

Keyboard? Nothing wrong with that. It's in his head.



Black the pot the kettle calling please rearrange to
form a well known proverb
--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"Andy Wade" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message ...

rogourous uqailty

C|NK :-)

Tehri quailty mystse si yullf cetrifeid ot IOS 1090, premusably.

It really is about time you fixed that intermittent fault on your
keyboard,
you know.

Keyboard? Nothing wrong with that. It's in his head.

Black the pot the kettle calling please rearrange to
form a well known proverb
--
geoff

Maxie, you really have thing about my tango dancing don't you?


---
--

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003