Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

First thing to do is not to panic to much and take a couple of deep breaths.
Now get all the water turned off at all the stop cocks and make sure that
any water heaters are also switched off.

Now looking at the pictures you've provided links too, I'd say you'd need to
remove the whole top lid off that base tank and clean it all up until it
shines like a new sixpence (sorry, five pence piece, same size). That tank
has been leaking for many a time by the looks of all the corrosion on it, so
it really needs cleaned off before any other judgement can be made on a
remedy.

Get all the water off, especially to the tanks, and then get back to us for
more advice.

If you've already calmed down and done all the water turning off thingies,
then get a shifting spanner....sooorry.....an adjustable spanner and remove
the nut from the elbow fitting that's nearest the door hinges and floor to
the right, and you can use this as a draining point for the tank water if
you put a basin or big pot, bowl or loads of towels under it.

Once you've got a load of water out, then take the spanner and undo the ring
band that holds the pressure vessel on top of the base tank. The bolt is
facing the door, so it's clearly visible and easy to access.

Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.


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BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


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Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....



"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"RJ" wrote in message
om...
Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

If an unvented cylinder shows signs of corrosion then ditch it.


My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....



"BigWallop" wrote in message
...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean
the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able
to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of
the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the
correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good
with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04


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Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 02/01/2004

On 11 Jan 2004 01:54:00 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

Semi tempted by this thought - but for 2 things - 1 getting the right
seal - I can't find any mention of this particular setup on the web
anywhere! and 2 - the top of the cylinder looks so rusted, that if all
the rust is removed and cleaned away, it'll be impossible to reseal as
the cylinder is so pitted and rusted...

My neighbours had theirs replaced (by their landlord) - So I'll call
them and see if they can take a look - whilst on DIY issues I'd say
I'm 8/10 er, I'm not at all ofay with this type of setup....


Then don't do it. This is a cylinder of hot water at 60 degrees,
stored under mains pressure - up to about about 4 bar. Really,
according to Building Regulations they are supposed to be (legally
speaking) installed and maintained by a plumber specifically trained
on pressurised cylinders.

Normally, I will tackle anything with respect to plumbing, and I am
far from being a fan of government regulation but looking at your
photos, I wouldn't entertain the idea of trying to fix this cylinder.
Even if you can clean it up, and it looks doubtful to me, then you
would have to be very sure that it all goes back together properly.
What you don't know is whether the cylinder has in other respects
corroded and deteriorated. I would say that this really isn't worth
the risk.

If you want to DIY this, then IMM's idea of a heatbank does make
sense. It would be quite easy to plumb this in, although a bit of
wiring would be needed, and it has the advantage that the contents of
the cylinder are not under pressure. The heat is stored in the
cylinder in the form of water at low pressure and then this is pumped
through an efficient heat exchanger to heat the mains water. With a
vented primary system you can connect directly. I notice on yours
what looks to be a small pressure vessel for the heating (red) at the
corner of the picture. In this case you have a sealed system and you
would use an indirect heat bank with its own header tank built in.

Alternatively, you could just get the cylinder replaced with a new
pressurised one. However this really is a job that is supposed to be
done by a trained professional. If you were a 10/10 person on
plumbing then I'd suggest that you make your own value judgment on
whether to DIY, but since you say 8/10, then I would think carefully.
If you get it wrong then you can create a dangerous situation.







"BigWallop" wrote in message ...
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
BigWallop wrote:


Now go out and buy a big wire brush and some scouring pads and clean the
whole up. Once youve done that, then more than likely you'l be able to
reseal the plate and tank back together no problem with some proper
neoprene
sealing rings. But it all has to be shiny clean.



Do you really think it can be resealed to 5 bar tested?
Safely?


Not disagreeing, just curious.


Depends on how competent the OP is, although the banding does a lot of the
work in pulling the two bits back together again, and as long as the correct
seals are used, then it is a job that can be done by someone who's good with
their hands and head (as in a bit of brain power). :-))


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release Date: 08/01/04

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

So - went with plumber.

Hmmm.

Never ever ever again. Not slagging off all plumbers as I'm sure you
guys aren't like this - but 20-30 visits to van (minimum) at slow
walking pace, and taking ages over doing anything - it gets put in in
8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

WHAT!? Not really fair.

Oh - and do you need to be qualified to put it in? No offence to the
advice - but no - it was easily doable by a good DIYer. And the extra
tests for building regs and unvented systems? What test!?

1 - big label: "THIS MUST BE EARTHED" and an earth bolt underneath.
No cable...
2 - Tundish must be seen. (old one couldn't) - so he moved it so it
could be seen. Fair enough. Manual says "do not bend pipe or put in
any angles until 300mm from tundish). Mine is about 160mm
3 - Testing pressure valve and drainage? Never heard/saw it tested.
Guy never checked the exit pipework - I know because the back door was
locked.

But - he did tidy up after him and remove the old crap.

But why so slow!? Just to make a days job out of it IMO. *******.
I'mnot sure I could have done in the time he did - but I'm no expert!
I mean - it took 2 hours to drain the old tank. WHY!!!!? I know damn
well I could have done that in 10-20 mins!!

Rant over.

I've learned a lot (mainly from you guys here - many many thanks - but
also learned that some tradesman (and employees of big plumber
company) are a bunch of gits. Only go on recommendations from now on!

But job done - and no leaks!

RJ

(RJ) wrote in message . com...
Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

"RJ" wrote in message
om...

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

Thermal stores are available for far less than £700.

IMM wrote:

Thermal stores are available for far less than £700.

Recommendations?

Whilst on the subject, scaling seems to be an issue, at least in
the minds of blurb writers. Any useful experiences?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Thermal stores are available for far less than £700.

Recommendations?

On price? The Albion Mainsflow DHW Mainflow can be obtained for around £500
(this has an internal heat transfer coil), as can the Range Cylinders
thermal store.

£500 for an Ariston unvented cylinder is at the bottom end of the quality
range.

Whilst on the subject, scaling seems to be an issue, at least in
the minds of blurb writers. Any useful experiences?

You should put on the cold feed a phosphor decaling canister. This applies
to unvented cylinders, thermal stores, heat banks and combi's.

With a heat bank using an external plate heat exchanger, it is a matter of
valving off , removing the plate and descaling it. A very easy almost DIY
job.

Chris J Dixon wrote in
:


Whilst on the subject, scaling seems to be an issue, at least in
the minds of blurb writers. Any useful experiences?

Going fishing?

mike r

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

Blimey. That'd buy me for a week! I've been thinking about putting my
prices up.....

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:26:16 +0000, PoP wrote:

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

Blimey. That'd buy me for a week! I've been thinking about putting my
prices up.....

Just remember. Why does a dog lick its balls.........??



PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 19:49:07 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Just remember. Why does a dog lick its balls.........??

Err, dunno. However if you are suggesting you'll give me 500 notes to
lick a dogs balls, forget it. And I know this is the DIY forum but I'm
afraid I wouldn't be able to lick my own.....

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:11:46 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 19:49:07 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Just remember. Why does a dog lick its balls.........??

Err, dunno. However if you are suggesting you'll give me 500 notes to
lick a dogs balls, forget it. And I know this is the DIY forum but I'm
afraid I wouldn't be able to lick my own.....

Exacry. Because it can........


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

So - went with plumber.

Hmmm.

Never ever ever again. Not slagging off all plumbers as I'm sure you
guys aren't like this - but 20-30 visits to van (minimum) at slow
walking pace, and taking ages over doing anything - it gets put in in
8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

WHAT!? Not really fair.

DIdn't you have a fixed price on the labour.


Oh - and do you need to be qualified to put it in? No offence to the
advice - but no - it was easily doable by a good DIYer.

Yes of course it is. None of this is rocket science.


And the extra
tests for building regs and unvented systems? What test!?

1 - big label: "THIS MUST BE EARTHED" and an earth bolt underneath.
No cable...

It should be bonded.


2 - Tundish must be seen. (old one couldn't) - so he moved it so it
could be seen. Fair enough. Manual says "do not bend pipe or put in
any angles until 300mm from tundish). Mine is about 160mm

That's clearly laid out in the approved docs to the building
regulations, IIRC. It doesn't have the force of law but is
recommended good practice.

3 - Testing pressure valve and drainage? Never heard/saw it tested.
Guy never checked the exit pipework - I know because the back door was
locked.

But - he did tidy up after him and remove the old crap.

Something, I suppose. Realistically, this was a day's work, but I
would have expected a better job.




But why so slow!? Just to make a days job out of it IMO. *******.
I'mnot sure I could have done in the time he did - but I'm no expert!
I mean - it took 2 hours to drain the old tank. WHY!!!!? I know damn
well I could have done that in 10-20 mins!!

Rant over.

I've learned a lot (mainly from you guys here - many many thanks - but
also learned that some tradesman (and employees of big plumber
company) are a bunch of gits. Only go on recommendations from now on!

But job done - and no leaks!

RJ

(RJ) wrote in message . com...
Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi,

Not a bad idea to get a quotation, then get in it writing, then get it
to include everything that needs to be done.

Don't leave anything to chance or assume anything!

cheers,
Pete.

On 4 Feb 2004 07:01:33 -0800, (RJ) wrote:

After all the advice here and elsewhere - we got a quote from plumber
for 500 + 250 labour + vat to replace with another unvented system
(ariston); and to DIY with thermal store was about 700 + bits + a few
new tools.

So - went with plumber.

Hmmm.

Never ever ever again. Not slagging off all plumbers as I'm sure you
guys aren't like this - but 20-30 visits to van (minimum) at slow
walking pace, and taking ages over doing anything - it gets put in in
8 hours - and I get charged 500 labour not 250.

WHAT!? Not really fair.

Oh - and do you need to be qualified to put it in? No offence to the
advice - but no - it was easily doable by a good DIYer. And the extra
tests for building regs and unvented systems? What test!?

1 - big label: "THIS MUST BE EARTHED" and an earth bolt underneath.
No cable...
2 - Tundish must be seen. (old one couldn't) - so he moved it so it
could be seen. Fair enough. Manual says "do not bend pipe or put in
any angles until 300mm from tundish). Mine is about 160mm
3 - Testing pressure valve and drainage? Never heard/saw it tested.
Guy never checked the exit pipework - I know because the back door was
locked.

But - he did tidy up after him and remove the old crap.

But why so slow!? Just to make a days job out of it IMO. *******.
I'mnot sure I could have done in the time he did - but I'm no expert!
I mean - it took 2 hours to drain the old tank. WHY!!!!? I know damn
well I could have done that in 10-20 mins!!

Rant over.

I've learned a lot (mainly from you guys here - many many thanks - but
also learned that some tradesman (and employees of big plumber
company) are a bunch of gits. Only go on recommendations from now on!

But job done - and no leaks!

RJ

(RJ) wrote in message . com...
Hi

My hot water cylinder is dripping, and to be honest, it looks pretty
dead - huge amounts of corrosion everywhere.

Sadly its not simple...

I've got a pressurised water system, and the cylinder is labelled
Polystel PS125 / 3 - with operating pressure of 3 bar. All the
pipework goes into the to of the cylinder through a metal cap that
looks like a beer bottle top. Its leaking from under there. The rust
is quite evident and obvious.

Photos of tank are at:-

http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank1.jpg and
http://www.ryanandmel.com/tank2.jpg

I have no idea if its direct or indirect (don't even know what this
means) - and as an avid DIY'er I know I can swap it for a like item.
However, I can find nothing at all on the web about this cylinder and
all the ones I can find have side entry pipes - which clearly isn't
what I'm looking for.

I've called 3 plumbers, and one can't quote for 3 weeks, one can't
speak to me till Monday and one isn't interested. Oh what a trade!
Any recommendations for plumbers in West Drayton/Uxbridge area
appreciated!

ANY HELP AT ALL is appreciated - this forum has been very helpful in
the past - so here's hoping!

Thanks!

RJ

In article , RJ
writes
But why so slow!? Just to make a days job out of it IMO. *******.
I'mnot sure I could have done in the time he did - but I'm no expert!
I mean - it took 2 hours to drain the old tank. WHY!!!!? I know damn
well I could have done that in 10-20 mins!!

It *can* take 2 hours or more to drain a tank. Local council plumbers on
piece work are not keen to take on element (side entry) replacement
tickets as a result because they get paid an hour and a half to replace
the element. They lose bonuses if they attend to a tank while draining
or have to leave several tanks draining unattended all over town.

If you have a way to siphon a tank quicker please share it with us.
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.