"Bill" wrote in message
...
In message , Capitol
writes
I'm waiting for the prices to reduce as a result of Vodaphone coming into the
market.

If Vodaphone demonstrate the level of competence and customer awareness they have
when screwing up Demon Internet, it will give others the incentive to raise their
prices.

Indeed. I finally got out of Demon yesterday after 20 years. Just under two years
ago, they dropped their newsgroup server. That was one month into a two-year
broadband contract I entered into, having been assured over the phone that the new
service would have access to it. I took that to the ombudsman but the server was
never restored so I had to go, and pay extra, to news.individual.net. Of course, no
compensation was offered for their breach of contract.

Then the final straw came late last month when they very kindly informed me that "As
part of our ongoing upgrades (sic), we'll no longer be offering free email with our
broadband products". That would take effect just four weeks later. As I have been
using Demon email addresses for 20 years, it has been pretty disruptive to
de-Demonise everything.

I wonder when Demon will have another 'upgrade' and drop broadband provision from
their broadband service. It's about the only thing left of their eye-wateringly
expensive offering that they can cut.

By the way, Vodafone is spelt with an 'f' (for '****').

Now you know why.

In article ,
Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Bill
writes
In message , Capitol
writes
I'm waiting for the prices to reduce as a result of Vodaphone
coming into the market.

If Vodaphone demonstrate the level of competence and customer awareness
they have when screwing up Demon Internet, it will give others the
incentive to raise their prices.

It's probably worth explaining that customers of what was Demon are all
being handed the 'black spot' (a kiss-of-death email) telling us that

"Your free Demon email will stop working 30 calendar days from the date
of this email. So if you've been using it, make sure you have a new
email service set up and ready to go. Apart from this, your Demon
broadband service will continue as normal".

The laughable bit is "as normal". Since I joined Demon in the late 90s,
the following services have been - or are being - withdrawn:
The demon.announce newsgroup (and the staff providing the announcements)
The single-user licence to use Turnpike (Demon's mail/news client)
Demon's news server
Website hosting
Your Demon email address
The ability to (easily) use Turnpike
and a few other things beside.

It appears that all of these were officially classified as being 'free'
- but it's very obvious that there is now not much left apart from the
provision of an internet connection.

OK, certain workarounds have been offered. For example, at an extra cost
of at least £38, another company will provide alternative email
facilities, and also allow you to retain your email address (if you
transfer to Vodafone's broadband, you will lose it). As my annual Demon
sub is £201 (it was actually taken by direct debit only 3 days ago), it
all seems very poor value compared with what we used to have, and what
is offered by most competitors.

I left Demon last autumn when they sent a warning that the email address
was on its way out. Such a shame. I was once giving my address to a lady
who said "Demon?" and looked hard at me, to which I replied "there are some
people with Virgin in their email address, and it doesn't mean anything
either"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 11/08/2016 09:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 10/08/2016 22:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Capitol
wrote:

We're with John Lewis broadband which is handled by Plusnet and they do
our phone too. Nary a sight of BT.

Are you really sure about that? BT took over Plusnet in about 2006 and
was finalised in 2007 so they have been a part of BT for nearly a
decade (admittedly with a somewhat better corporate culture).

Yes I know that. What I mean is that apart from when the BT Openreach
girlie came round and rejigged some cabling when we went FTTC, I've not
had to do with BT at all for any purpose since we joined JL Broadband
(i.e. PlusNet, in effect), including not for the phone.

Someone upthread had appeared to imply that while PlusNet did
broadband, phone might be a different story.

The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

Choice of ISP is now based on their ability to beat BT about the head
with blunt instruments to get faults *fixed* on a reasonable timescale.

One other thing I have noticed is that in cities the bandwidth available
to ordinary ASDL users (ie not FTTC) is deliberately throttled back to
around the 6-7M mark despite sync rates ~18M. I base this on experiments
and reports from friends in the Manchester area.

Seems to me like this is chosen to make streaming 2 HD channels or any
QD channels impossible as a sales push for fibre offerings. It cannot be
shortage of backhaul since fibre to the same exchange runs a lot faster.

My rural line syncs at 6M and delivers around 5M bandwidth in practice.
This is unusually high for where I live with 2-3MB more typical. You pay
a premium for living in the countryside for a much worse service.

It got so bad in my village at one time that they were breaking an
existing circuit every time they did a new installation! Some folk were
without working phones for weeks (including the farm shop in the run up
to Xmas). They got a pittance in compensation for this chaos.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On 11/08/16 09:36, Martin Brown wrote:
The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

However BT openreach and BR wholesale, are very different companies to
BT retail

All the rot is in retail and most of the quality and the profit is in
Openreach.


They are completely separate divisions and may yet become completely
separate companies. Indeed the only commonality is that all the finances
though accounted separately are grouped together in BTs final accounts
as a plc.

Likewise Plusnet is still a seperate division.

It may be owned by BT, but overall its actually operates like any other
ISP renting phone lines and copper from BT wholesale.


--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

Martin Brown wrote:
On 11/08/2016 09:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 10/08/2016 22:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Capitol
wrote:

We're with John Lewis broadband which is handled by Plusnet and
they do
our phone too. Nary a sight of BT.

Are you really sure about that? BT took over Plusnet in about 2006 and
was finalised in 2007 so they have been a part of BT for nearly a
decade (admittedly with a somewhat better corporate culture).

Yes I know that. What I mean is that apart from when the BT Openreach
girlie came round and rejigged some cabling when we went FTTC, I've not
had to do with BT at all for any purpose since we joined JL Broadband
(i.e. PlusNet, in effect), including not for the phone.

Someone upthread had appeared to imply that while PlusNet did
broadband, phone might be a different story.

The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

Choice of ISP is now based on their ability to beat BT about the head
with blunt instruments to get faults *fixed* on a reasonable timescale.

One other thing I have noticed is that in cities the bandwidth
available to ordinary ASDL users (ie not FTTC) is deliberately
throttled back to around the 6-7M mark despite sync rates ~18M. I base
this on experiments and reports from friends in the Manchester area.

Seems to me like this is chosen to make streaming 2 HD channels or any
QD channels impossible as a sales push for fibre offerings. It cannot
be shortage of backhaul since fibre to the same exchange runs a lot
faster.

My rural line syncs at 6M and delivers around 5M bandwidth in
practice. This is unusually high for where I live with 2-3MB more
typical. You pay a premium for living in the countryside for a much
worse service.

It got so bad in my village at one time that they were breaking an
existing circuit every time they did a new installation! Some folk
were without working phones for weeks (including the farm shop in the
run up to Xmas). They got a pittance in compensation for this chaos.

Regards,
Martin Brown
I'm in a town of 100K people and get 3.6M on a good day!

Yes, I do speak english, BT's computer doen't know how to listen!

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
John Rumm wrote:
On 10/08/2016 14:40, Capitol wrote:
Woody wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...
Me: Have you got any four by four posts, but long ones, maybe three
and a half metres?
Girl in timber yard office (who has been needlessly obstructive on
several previous occasions): No.
Me: What's the longest you've got?
Girl: We might have some ten foot. Not sure. Might only have eight
foot.
Me: Well can you cut me some longer ones?
Girl: How can we make long ones from short ones?
Me: I thought you could maybe start with a tree.
Girl: Oh funny guy eh?
Me: Only when provoked.
Girl: Could you get me some longer ones if I order them?
Girl: Oh no we don't do that.
Me: Oh well, OK then. Thanks for your help anyway.
Girl: I'll go and have a look.
[a few seconds later, sounding disappointed]: Oh, there's some three
point six. Just come in.
Excellent. I'll see you shortly.


Sadly it seems the knowledge of how to handle a customer politely and
courteously just does not exist these days until the maturity sets in.
In the recent past I have had to deal with an organisation where the
first time I was answered by an early 20-something (I would guess) who
clearly could not give a stuff. The second time I called I got a
mature woman who could not have been more helpful or friendly.

My wife has had the very same in dealing with the Halifax - and that
their breavement department - and on a couple of occasions with BG.
Conversely she has also dealt with Severn Trent Water and
(surprisingly) BT where whoever answered the call could not have been
more helpful.

STW - and for those that use them, First Direct (bank) - clearly spend
time and money training their staff in how to talk to customers on the
telephone. From my experience scripts don't even come into it. BT -
well I think that was just a fluke!



It took me days to report a fault to BT recently. The fault
reporting system has replaced people with voice operated computers which
do not understand English. The on line system is now a people data
collecting system and doesn't work without javascript. I don't give out
personal details on line, so couldn't use it. I was about to write to
BT, my MP and OFCOM when somehow I managed to register a fault condition
using the 151 system. My bank, Plusnet and Tesco are a joy to contact as
they answer their phones with people.

So why not move your phone line to Plusnet?

I'm waiting for the prices to reduce as a result of Vodaphone coming
into the market.

If their mobile tariffs are anything to go by, you'll have a very long wait

tim

In article , Cursitor Doom
scribeth thus
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 14:39:00 +0200, Martin wrote:

You could also see it as being snotty to an unliked customer.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:30:23 +0100, "Brian Gaff"

wrote:

Yes but the lack of initiative or as they call it now, thinking outside
the box, is usually a symptom of University syndrome where common sense
is replaced by useless knowledge.
Brian

Wimin take offence far more easily than men; it's impossible to avoid
sometimes.
I always despair when a woman answers the phone and I have a technical
query because I know I'm going to have to explain the problem twice: once
to her and once again to the man she then puts me through to.

Yes same here VERY rarely do you find one who can answer the question
there was one at Neve many years ago and another at Allen and Heath but
thats about it...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|||@ne
zumi.demon.co.uk scribeth thus
On 11/08/2016 09:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 10/08/2016 22:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Capitol
wrote:

We're with John Lewis broadband which is handled by Plusnet and they do
our phone too. Nary a sight of BT.

Are you really sure about that? BT took over Plusnet in about 2006 and
was finalised in 2007 so they have been a part of BT for nearly a
decade (admittedly with a somewhat better corporate culture).

Yes I know that. What I mean is that apart from when the BT Openreach
girlie came round and rejigged some cabling when we went FTTC, I've not
had to do with BT at all for any purpose since we joined JL Broadband
(i.e. PlusNet, in effect), including not for the phone.

Someone upthread had appeared to imply that while PlusNet did
broadband, phone might be a different story.

The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..



Choice of ISP is now based on their ability to beat BT about the head
with blunt instruments to get faults *fixed* on a reasonable timescale.

One other thing I have noticed is that in cities the bandwidth available
to ordinary ASDL users (ie not FTTC) is deliberately throttled back to
around the 6-7M mark despite sync rates ~18M. I base this on experiments
and reports from friends in the Manchester area.


On VM 214 Meg down here and use as much as you want and like


--
Tony Sayer

In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , Cursitor Doom
scribeth thus
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 14:39:00 +0200, Martin wrote:

You could also see it as being snotty to an unliked customer.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:30:23 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Yes but the lack of initiative or as they call it now, thinking
outside the box, is usually a symptom of University syndrome where
common sense is replaced by useless knowledge. Brian

Wimin take offence far more easily than men; it's impossible to avoid
sometimes. I always despair when a woman answers the phone and I have a
technical query because I know I'm going to have to explain the problem
twice: once to her and once again to the man she then puts me through
to.

Yes same here VERY rarely do you find one who can answer the question
there was one at Neve many years ago and another at Allen and Heath but
thats about it...

Inn BBC EID our clerks (female) were usually capable of answering most
queries, if they got stuck one of the engineers would take the call.
However, there was a caller who insisted he "talk to an engineer"; he
wouldn't tell the clerk anthing. So, he did talk to an engineer - our only
female one! I don't think he appreciated it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

In article , tony sayer
wrote:
In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|||@ne
zumi.demon.co.uk scribeth thus
On 11/08/2016 09:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 10/08/2016 22:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
Capitol wrote:

We're with John Lewis broadband which is handled by Plusnet and they
do our phone too. Nary a sight of BT.

Are you really sure about that? BT took over Plusnet in about 2006
and was finalised in 2007 so they have been a part of BT for nearly a
decade (admittedly with a somewhat better corporate culture).

Yes I know that. What I mean is that apart from when the BT Openreach
girlie came round and rejigged some cabling when we went FTTC, I've
not had to do with BT at all for any purpose since we joined JL
Broadband (i.e. PlusNet, in effect), including not for the phone.

Someone upthread had appeared to imply that while PlusNet did
broadband, phone might be a different story.

The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..

who have a monopoly in the areas they serve - not many people know that.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 10/08/2016 19:05, Bod wrote:

I've had Talk Talk for at least 6 years and never had a problem with them.

They are all fine until you have a problem.
Its getting the problem sorted that makes the difference.

On 11/08/16 16:19, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Martin Brown |||newspam|||@ne
zumi.demon.co.uk scribeth thus
On 11/08/2016 09:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:

On 10/08/2016 22:54, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Capitol
wrote:

We're with John Lewis broadband which is handled by Plusnet and they do
our phone too. Nary a sight of BT.

Are you really sure about that? BT took over Plusnet in about 2006 and
was finalised in 2007 so they have been a part of BT for nearly a
decade (admittedly with a somewhat better corporate culture).

Yes I know that. What I mean is that apart from when the BT Openreach
girlie came round and rejigged some cabling when we went FTTC, I've not
had to do with BT at all for any purpose since we joined JL Broadband
(i.e. PlusNet, in effect), including not for the phone.

Someone upthread had appeared to imply that while PlusNet did
broadband, phone might be a different story.

The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..


Virgin will supply copper adsl I thiunk in areas not covered by 'cable'


Choice of ISP is now based on their ability to beat BT about the head
with blunt instruments to get faults *fixed* on a reasonable timescale.

One other thing I have noticed is that in cities the bandwidth available
to ordinary ASDL users (ie not FTTC) is deliberately throttled back to
around the 6-7M mark despite sync rates ~18M. I base this on experiments
and reports from friends in the Manchester area.


On VM 214 Meg down here and use as much as you want and like




--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

"charles" wrote in message
...
Inn BBC EID our clerks (female) were usually capable of answering most
queries, if they got stuck one of the engineers would take the call.
However, there was a caller who insisted he "talk to an engineer"; he
wouldn't tell the clerk anthing. So, he did talk to an engineer - our
only
female one! I don't think he appreciated it.

The other year I needed to order a pair of sliding runners for a drawer. I'd
tried going to a few local hardware shops and no-one had the right size. So
I tried phoning a company that I found from Google. A woman answered. From
her voice she sounded as if she was a clerk or secretary, but I work on the
principle that anyone who answers the phone will be able to help me - until
proved otherwise.

So I started to describe what I needed - shelf runner brackets, size etc -
expecting her to break in and say "can I pass you to someone else". But she
knew exactly what I was talking about and could help when I wasn't sure
which sort I would need based on the measurements I'd made of the old ones
that needed to be replaced.

Within a couple minutes everything was ordered and I was left feeling
confident that they would work. And they did. Job done. I was impressed -
not because a woman knew about these things but because anyone (male or
female) knew their products and could actually advise and give me fitting
instructions rather than simply saying (effectively) "these are the ones
we've got, you'll have to work out which will be the right one for you and
work out how to fit it", as so many shops do nowadays.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 16:38:41 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

On 10/08/2016 19:05, Bod wrote:

I've had Talk Talk for at least 6 years and never had a problem with them.

They are all fine until you have a problem.
Its getting the problem sorted that makes the difference.

Talktalk try to blame my neighbour every time. They always get me to phone Talktalk up as I can bypass all their "it could be this" crap, as I've already tried it.

--
"Oh, Jason, take me!" she panted, her breasts heaving like a student on 31p-a-pint night.

tim... wrote:

"Capitol" wrote in message
o.uk...
John Rumm wrote:
On 10/08/2016 14:40, Capitol wrote:
Woody wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...
Me: Have you got any four by four posts, but long ones, maybe three
and a half metres?
Girl in timber yard office (who has been needlessly obstructive on
several previous occasions): No.
Me: What's the longest you've got?
Girl: We might have some ten foot. Not sure. Might only have eight
foot.
Me: Well can you cut me some longer ones?
Girl: How can we make long ones from short ones?
Me: I thought you could maybe start with a tree.
Girl: Oh funny guy eh?
Me: Only when provoked.
Girl: Could you get me some longer ones if I order them?
Girl: Oh no we don't do that.
Me: Oh well, OK then. Thanks for your help anyway.
Girl: I'll go and have a look.
[a few seconds later, sounding disappointed]: Oh, there's some three
point six. Just come in.
Excellent. I'll see you shortly.


Sadly it seems the knowledge of how to handle a customer politely and
courteously just does not exist these days until the maturity sets
in.
In the recent past I have had to deal with an organisation where the
first time I was answered by an early 20-something (I would guess)
who
clearly could not give a stuff. The second time I called I got a
mature woman who could not have been more helpful or friendly.

My wife has had the very same in dealing with the Halifax - and that
their breavement department - and on a couple of occasions with BG.
Conversely she has also dealt with Severn Trent Water and
(surprisingly) BT where whoever answered the call could not have been
more helpful.

STW - and for those that use them, First Direct (bank) - clearly
spend
time and money training their staff in how to talk to customers on
the
telephone. From my experience scripts don't even come into it. BT -
well I think that was just a fluke!



It took me days to report a fault to BT recently. The fault
reporting system has replaced people with voice operated computers
which
do not understand English. The on line system is now a people data
collecting system and doesn't work without javascript. I don't give
out
personal details on line, so couldn't use it. I was about to write to
BT, my MP and OFCOM when somehow I managed to register a fault
condition
using the 151 system. My bank, Plusnet and Tesco are a joy to
contact as
they answer their phones with people.

So why not move your phone line to Plusnet?

I'm waiting for the prices to reduce as a result of Vodaphone
coming into the market.

If their mobile tariffs are anything to go by, you'll have a very long
wait

tim




I think Plusnet/BT may reduce their prices as a result of a new
pricing structure.

Reported a fault to Plusnet today when internet went down
about 11.30am. They couldn't fix it, as it appeared to be a phone line
fault which I believed had been fixed on Tuesday. Then went onto BT,
managed to get a droid with some English in spite of their computer
system and explained the faults to him, pointing out that the previous
phone line fault occurrence had registered on their website on Monday,
and that the phone had worked Tuesday and Wednesday. Internet was back
working by 5pm. I haven't been brave enough to check the phone fault out
again yet.

On 11/08/2016 16:30, charles wrote:
In , tony
wrote:

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..

who have a monopoly in the areas they serve - not many people know that.

Not in the accepted sense of "monopoly".
In my street, VM serve some houses, BT serve some houses via copper wire
(and at least one house uses that copper wire for Sky broadband) and BT
have a fibre cabinet along the road which serves FTTC to at least one house.

I call that a free choice not a monopoly.

Jim

On 11/08/2016 16:43, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Virgin will supply copper adsl I think in areas not covered by 'cable'

They used to, but they discontinued that a while ago and sold the
customers on to another broadband supplier. (I CBA to look up who).

Jim

Indy Jess John wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Virgin will supply copper adsl

they discontinued that a while ago and sold the customers on to
another broadband supplier.

MutterMutter.

On 11/08/2016 16:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/08/2016 19:05, Bod wrote:

I've had Talk Talk for at least 6 years and never had a problem with
them.

They are all fine until you have a problem.
Its getting the problem sorted that makes the difference.

I had a problem caused by BT's line getting inundated with water. F2S
sorted it out then also sent a bloke to find out why we were only
getting slow speeds. He supplied a mew modem and tidied up the phone
connections in the house.

Bill

On 11/08/2016 18:57, Bill Wright wrote:

I had a problem caused by BT's line getting inundated with water. F2S


Sorry I meant TalkTalk.

Bill

In article , Indy Jess John
wrote:
On 11/08/2016 16:30, charles wrote:
In , tony
wrote:

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..

who have a monopoly in the areas they serve - not many people know that.

Not in the accepted sense of "monopoly". In my street, VM serve some
houses, BT serve some houses via copper wire (and at least one house
uses that copper wire for Sky broadband) and BT have a fibre cabinet
along the road which serves FTTC to at least one house.

I call that a free choice not a monopoly.

Then it's changed recently.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

charles wrote:

Indy Jess John wrote:

VM serve some houses, BT serve some houses via copper wire (and at
least one house uses that copper wire for Sky broadband) and BT
have a fibre cabinet along the road which serves FTTC to at least
one house.

I call that a free choice not a monopoly.

Then it's changed recently.

I don't think anything's changed, BT/Openreach have long been forced to
allow other operators access to their network, but none of the other
operators (Hull apart?) have to allow access to anyone else.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 18:57:13 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 11/08/2016 16:38, dennis@home wrote:
On 10/08/2016 19:05, Bod wrote:

I've had Talk Talk for at least 6 years and never had a problem with
them.

They are all fine until you have a problem.
Its getting the problem sorted that makes the difference.

I had a problem caused by BT's line getting inundated with water. F2S
sorted it out then also sent a bloke to find out why we were only
getting slow speeds. He supplied a mew modem and tidied up the phone
connections in the house.

Dunno who F2S is, but I've had 10 times faster repairs to stuff like that using Plusnet to get BT out, than I used to getting BT to get BT out.

--
Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer

charles wrote:
In article , Indy Jess John
wrote:
On 11/08/2016 16:30, charles wrote:
In , tony
wrote:

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..

who have a monopoly in the areas they serve - not many people know that.

Not in the accepted sense of "monopoly". In my street, VM serve some
houses, BT serve some houses via copper wire (and at least one house
uses that copper wire for Sky broadband) and BT have a fibre cabinet
along the road which serves FTTC to at least one house.

I call that a free choice not a monopoly.

Then it's changed recently.


Not here. We've had the choice of BT ADSL broadband or VM cable broadband
pretty much since both technologies were introduced. A few years ago BT
installed FTTC, so now I have the choice cable broadband or VDSL. With
cable you can only have VIrgin Media as the ISP. VDSL allows a choice of
ISP.

En el artículo ,
Capitol escribió:

Plusnet is BT for broadband, don't know if BT telephone fault
reporting is handled by Plusnet.

It's handled by whoever you pay your line rental to.

You can in theory rent your line from one provider, have calls
provisioned by another, and broadband provisioned by a third.

But you'd have to be mental to do that.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

En el artículo ,
Clive George escribió:

It is. Though as with all the suppliers it's BT engineers doing the work
on the string.

To be pedantic, it's Openreach who do the work on the wet string.
They're part of BT Group but are (in theory) a separate entity.

There have recently been moves to increase the 'air gap' between BT and
Openretch:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/07...each_it_must_b
e_legally_separate_from_bt/

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

En el artículo , Bill
escribió:

If Vodaphone demonstrate the level of competence and customer awareness
they have when screwing up Demon Internet, it will give others the
incentive to raise their prices.

Demon were well screwed before Vodaphone got anywhere near them. The
rot set in when they were sold off to Thus.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 12/08/16 03:51, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Bill
escribió:

If Vodaphone demonstrate the level of competence and customer awareness
they have when screwing up Demon Internet, it will give others the
incentive to raise their prices.

Demon were well screwed before Vodaphone got anywhere near them. The
rot set in when they were sold off to Thus.

Demon started life screwed.

And went downhill thereafter

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Bill
escribió:

If Vodaphone demonstrate the level of competence and customer awareness
they have when screwing up Demon Internet, it will give others the
incentive to raise their prices.

Demon were well screwed before Vodaphone got anywhere near them. The
rot set in when they were sold off to Thus.

now that is going back

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

Demon started life screwed.

********.

Cliff, the founder, ably aided by Giles "baby eater" Todd, Tony Finch
and a couple of other guys whose names I forget, were pioneering and
instrumental in bringing t'internet, previously the preserve of
academia, to the public for a tenner a month. It was solid and
reliable, using KA9Q to dial into the Warrington POP, if you could get
through after 6pm. The virtual POPs with numbers ending in 666, went
some way to sorting that out.

The only hiccups were the great ongoing News Server Disaster (anyone
remember "nntp kick"?), partly remedied by the introduction of Ade's
NewsBorg, and a bunch of servers falling through the floor at one of
their datacentres.

demon.service was a great, entertaining, really busy NG in those days
with lots of good-natured bitching. The Demon staff took part and you
could get problems fixed quickly.

Cliff saw the writing on the wall when the likes of Freeserve took off
and the great unwashed began to pile in, and sold the firm to Thus so he
could retire and count his money. (Actually, he reinvested it in
something else - Red Bus or something like that)

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Or anybody other than BT.

seriously!

Anybody?

Even talk-talk!

No, don't believe it

I've been with 6 ISPs over the years. Current one BT Infinity - fibre to
the end of the road. So far, much better than any of the others, since
I've had no problems at all with them in over 3 years. So can't comment on
so called service if things go wrong. Personally I prefer reliability to a
help line.

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/08/2016 08:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/08/16 03:51, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Bill
escribió:

If Vodaphone demonstrate the level of competence and customer awareness
they have when screwing up Demon Internet, it will give others the
incentive to raise their prices.

Demon were well screwed before Vodaphone got anywhere near them. The
rot set in when they were sold off to Thus.

Demon started life screwed.

That seems a little harsh... They were instrumental in getting internet
access available to the public in the UK.

And went downhill thereafter

The first few years were fine IME.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Mike Tomlinson
scribeth thus
En el artículo ,
Capitol escribió:

Plusnet is BT for broadband, don't know if BT telephone fault
reporting is handled by Plusnet.

It's handled by whoever you pay your line rental to.

You can in theory rent your line from one provider, have calls
provisioned by another, and broadband provisioned by a third.

But you'd have to be mental to do that.


Some firms do just that;!....
--
Tony Sayer

Yes I know that. What I mean is that apart from when the BT Openreach
girlie came round and rejigged some cabling when we went FTTC, I've
not had to do with BT at all for any purpose since we joined JL
Broadband (i.e. PlusNet, in effect), including not for the phone.

Someone upthread had appeared to imply that while PlusNet did
broadband, phone might be a different story.

The point is that whoever you go with if it uses phone cables then BT
via Openreach have their grubby paws on it and the service level.

Umm .. Virgin Media?.. FTTC since they started. Co-ax to the home..

who have a monopoly in the areas they serve - not many people know that.


Odd if they don't know but still seeing that we "grew up" in a cabled
area

The number of people who dis'sed them off for digging up the roads back
then, there are people now who'd neigh on pay for the road to be dug up
to get their fast fibre service;!!
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Or anybody other than BT.

seriously!

Anybody?

Even talk-talk!

No, don't believe it

I've been with 6 ISPs over the years. Current one BT Infinity - fibre to
the end of the road. So far, much better than any of the others, since
I've had no problems at all with them in over 3 years. So can't comment on
so called service if things go wrong. Personally I prefer reliability to a
help line.


You dunno what you've missed Dave not having a run in with customer
"services";!...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Mike Tomlinson
scribeth thus
En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

Demon started life screwed.

********.

Cliff, the founder, ably aided by Giles "baby eater" Todd, Tony Finch
and a couple of other guys whose names I forget, were pioneering and
instrumental in bringing t'internet, previously the preserve of
academia, to the public for a tenner a month. It was solid and
reliable, using KA9Q to dial into the Warrington POP, if you could get
through after 6pm. The virtual POPs with numbers ending in 666, went
some way to sorting that out.

The only hiccups were the great ongoing News Server Disaster (anyone
remember "nntp kick"?), partly remedied by the introduction of Ade's
NewsBorg, and a bunch of servers falling through the floor at one of
their datacentres.

demon.service was a great, entertaining, really busy NG in those days
with lots of good-natured bitching. The Demon staff took part and you
could get problems fixed quickly.

Cliff saw the writing on the wall when the likes of Freeserve took off
and the great unwashed began to pile in, and sold the firm to Thus so he
could retire and count his money. (Actually, he reinvested it in
something else - Red Bus or something like that)


And they left the lovely quirky Turnpike news and mail client...
--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Or anybody other than BT.

seriously!

Anybody?

Even talk-talk!

No, don't believe it

I've been with 6 ISPs over the years. Current one BT Infinity - fibre to
the end of the road. So far, much better than any of the others, since
I've had no problems at all with them in over 3 years. So can't comment on
so called service if things go wrong. Personally I prefer reliability to a
help line.


You dunno what you've missed Dave not having a run in with customer
"services";!...


True. But the only dealing I've had with BT broadband was when they
installed their bits - and they were spot on. Came exactly when they said,
and made a neat job. Although it was as easy as it comes for them.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Or anybody other than BT.

seriously!

Anybody?

Even talk-talk!

No, don't believe it

I've been with 6 ISPs over the years. Current one BT Infinity - fibre to
the end of the road. So far, much better than any of the others, since
I've had no problems at all with them in over 3 years. So can't comment on
so called service if things go wrong. Personally I prefer reliability to a
help line.


You dunno what you've missed Dave not having a run in with customer
"services";!...


True. But the only dealing I've had with BT broadband was when they
installed their bits - and they were spot on. Came exactly when they said,
and made a neat job. Although it was as easy as it comes for them.


Should have been Openreach who installed it.

Want to hear the time when it took SIX of them to get a BB install
going;?.

Perhaps not..
--
Tony Sayer

On 14/08/2016 14:50, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Or anybody other than BT.

seriously!

Anybody?

Even talk-talk!

No, don't believe it

I've been with 6 ISPs over the years. Current one BT Infinity - fibre to
the end of the road. So far, much better than any of the others, since
I've had no problems at all with them in over 3 years. So can't comment on
so called service if things go wrong. Personally I prefer reliability to a
help line.


You dunno what you've missed Dave not having a run in with customer
"services";!...


True. But the only dealing I've had with BT broadband was when they
installed their bits - and they were spot on. Came exactly when they said,
and made a neat job. Although it was as easy as it comes for them.

Except I was carded by open reach at 7:50 without any bell rung for a
visit between 8am and 5pm.

*******s.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
tony wrote:

In , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus

In ,
wrote:

Or anybody other than BT.


seriously!


Anybody?


Even talk-talk!


No, don't believe it

I've been with 6 ISPs over the years. Current one BT Infinity - fibre to
the end of the road. So far, much better than any of the others, since
I've had no problems at all with them in over 3 years. So can't comment on
so called service if things go wrong. Personally I prefer reliability to a
help line.



You dunno what you've missed Dave not having a run in with customer
"services";!...


True. But the only dealing I've had with BT broadband was when they
installed their bits - and they were spot on. Came exactly when they said,
and made a neat job. Although it was as easy as it comes for them.



Well, sometimes you're lucky snd sometimes not! I'm still in
trouble with intermittent phone and broadband, Friday morning a BT guy
came and checked the line, replaced a couple of joints in the box and
all was well. For 1 hour! Then the original fault recurred, no phone, no
BB. After a while, I managed to find the time to talk to BT, who told me
I had a defective line and the fault was my equipment! I pointed out to
the Indian droid that the fault had been reported the previous Monday
and apparently cured by Tuesday, before recurring and being cured again
on Friday morning. About 4pm Friday, the fault cured itself but by
then I had booked a BT service call for Monday, that's when BT contacted
me again to offer a service call Saturday pm. The more experienced BT
guy spent a lot of time testing out the line and found that there was a
low level fault, that would pass auto testing. He then retired to the
local junction box for more tests, coming back, to say, sorry. We're
going to have to dig up the cable, it's not right somewhere! As the
National Grid and the water supplier have been digging multiple pavement
holes for the past 18 months, it looks as though someone's nicked.
disturbed a cable/joint. Apparently, when the same fault is reported 3
times. it moves up the activity roster, hence the Saturday call. As it
happened, Saturday was a wild activity day, with a hospital appointment,
which ran an hour late, the BT man coming and visitors for the weekend
all at more or less the same time. Anyway, we currently have a phone and
broadband connection which works, we'll see how long it lasts. There
have also apparently been exchange problems locally, with the ring
generator, the dial tone generator and the software, just to add to the mix!