"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2016 14:13, tim... wrote:


Maybe you're just buying **** industrial "bread". Does it come in a
plastic bag?

Of course it comes in a plastic bag

how else am I going to buy sliced bread?

tim



You buy a bloomer, or whatever in Sainsburys and slice it yourself
in the supplied machine.

buy a loaf of bread and they give you a machine as well

wonderful!

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 May 2016 14:13:13 +0100, tim... wrote:

Maybe you're just buying **** industrial "bread". Does it come in a
plastic bag?

Of course it comes in a plastic bag

how else am I going to buy sliced bread?

There y'go, then. You bring it on yourself.

I don't eat enough bread for it to be worth buying bread unless I can store
it in the freezer.

and it's impossible to slice a frozen loaf, so whilst I buy (and then
freeze) fresh baked rolls from the baker, if I want a supply of toastable
bread, it has to be pre-sliced

tim

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
To me, the main advantage of a slow cooker is things don't get ruined
if left on a long time.

'That's an advantage !, what happens if you forget to switch it on ?
There's a few things I buy that are slow cooked, all it takes is 5 mins
then 1 min standing then another 3 mins in the microwave and I have a
meal ready, no wating about for hours adn I can decide what I want 10
mins before eating rather than have to decide what I want or how hungry
I'll be in 10 yuors time.

Each to their own. I prefer a stew etc I actually know what is in it. ;-)

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 12 May 2016 17:22:17 +0100, tim... wrote:

Maybe you're just buying **** industrial "bread". Does it come in a
plastic bag?

Of course it comes in a plastic bag

how else am I going to buy sliced bread?

There y'go, then. You bring it on yourself.

I don't eat enough bread for it to be worth buying bread unless I can
store it in the freezer.

and it's impossible to slice a frozen loaf, so whilst I buy (and then
freeze) fresh baked rolls from the baker, if I want a supply of
toastable bread, it has to be pre-sliced

tim

I don't blame you. If the only bread I ever ate was industrial sliced,
then I wouldn't eat much bread, either.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
My upright is a pretty old Panasonic. Works ok and will only be
replaced when it breaks. Dyson make a big point about their super
efficient motors etc - so surely must work at least as well as this
1000 watt upright?

So why don't the EU do someothing useful in comparing such things rather
than ban something just on comsumption of power.

If they set an upper limit on power input, those who can't make a decent
vacuum with that power will go out of business.

--
*Welcome to **** Creek - sorry, we're out of paddles*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
When you switch a kettle off it doesn't stay boiling for very long does it.

No reason why it should - if you only boil enough for your immediate needs.

--
*Rehab is for quitters.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , Adrian
escribió:

But, no, let's just lob some more coal on the power station instead.

Oh? GridWatch showing 0% for coal most of today...



ps. just kidding. I agree with you.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

En el artículo , Andy Burns
escribió:

Generally by having gas hob ones rather than electric ones.

Electric kettles in US are useless. Take 10 mins to boil. I know. I've
lived there. In the end I took over a 230v kettle and wired it into the
cooker point, which is 220v. (the supply is 110-0-110)

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

Actually burnt bread (and protein for that matter) creates
carcinogenic subtances.

Anything that tastes good is bad for you.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

En el artículo , Chris Hogg
escribió:

(Do they actually make toast in Europe, or is
this just a clandestine anti-Brit thing?).

No, because they get lovely fresh bread (not sliced, homogenised crap,
but rolls, croissants, etc.) from a local bakery every day. That's my
experience of Poland, Germany, France, Holland, and Spain anyway.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson
escribió:
En el artículo , Adrian
escribió:

But, no, let's just lob some more coal on the power station instead.

Oh? GridWatch showing 0% for coal most of today...

Showing 0.83% at 1835. They must have lit a briquette.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Chris Hogg
escribió:

(Do they actually make toast in Europe, or is
this just a clandestine anti-Brit thing?).

No, because they get lovely fresh bread (not sliced, homogenised crap,
but rolls, croissants, etc.) from a local bakery every day. That's my
experience of Poland, Germany, France, Holland, and Spain anyway.

when I lived in Italy, in the summer you had to buy your fresh baked bread
in the morning

if you didn't, it was rock-hard and inedible

tim

On 11/05/2016 23:08, Capitol wrote:
Chris B wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:30, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

Oh, that 2014 fabricated scare-story's come out of hibernation, has it?

What a surprise.

Even the Telegraph backtracked on it a few months ago.

Well its not come out of hibernation yet - its been put on the "back
burner" (If we are still allowed to have such things) until after the
referendum in case it makes people vote to leave.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36642906-d...#axzz48NVyRLIh


But after the referendum I will wager its "full steam ahead" (well
partial steam ahead anyway from our new low power kettles).


Oh dear, back to buying for stock again! I'm sure the real reason is
to lower electricity demand as the generating capacity is being
destroyed by the EU eco warriors. Back to coal fires people.

But will lower powered kettles, ovens, toasters and other heating
devices lower demand? The power of each will be lower, but as each will
need to be on for longer, there is likely to be a greater overlap and
therefore more operating at any one time. It *might* have an effect at
the ad break in a major event, but that's about all - and that is
already planned for and places like Dinorwig are brought online for the
surge.

On 12/05/2016 17:52, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
When you switch a kettle off it doesn't stay boiling for very long does it.

No reason why it should - if you only boil enough for your immediate needs.

I agree. Our current kettle makes that very easy because of the way the
light interacts with the window in it.

So a kettle which makes it extremely easy to put in exactly the right
amount of water. Perhaps it could incorporate a means of weighing the
water content?

--
Rod

On 12/05/2016 16:16, Andrew wrote:
On 12/05/2016 14:13, tim... wrote:


Maybe you're just buying **** industrial "bread". Does it come in a
plastic bag?

Of course it comes in a plastic bag

how else am I going to buy sliced bread?

tim



You buy a bloomer, or whatever in Sainsburys and slice it yourself
in the supplied machine.

I actually prefer "industrial" batch loaves for toasting (and they often
won't fit in toasters), but "proper" bread for sandwiches or just for
eating buttered.

On 12/05/2016 14:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/05/16 13:40, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The fuss over the vacuum cleaner thing was amazing. Most of it coming
from
those who've never touched one in their lives.

Has anyone here had to replace one since the "eco" ones were introduced?
Any comments on relative performance?

I just got myself a 'henry' At 650W its about as powerful and a lot
quieter than my yonks old 1300W one was.

Mine is pre the power reduction, but has two power settings. It always
defaults to the lower power and that usually does everything, so we
rarely select the higher setting, but there are occassions where
switching it to the higher power does help. That was surely a sensible
compromise?

On 12/05/2016 14:13, tim... wrote:

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 May 2016 13:01:45 +0100, tim... wrote:

But market forces having settled on a rectangular (not square) slice
size/shape that seems to have been constants for much of my lifetime,

Really?

None of the bread we have is "rectangular".

I was ignoring the curve at the top

The point I was making is that it isn't square, but has one dimension
longer then the other

and IME

the long dimension won't fit in the toaster whichever way you try

Right, and? The last loaf I bought was sort of roundish, with tucked-over
bits at the top in all directions. The one before that was fairly long
and thin.

Maybe you're just buying **** industrial "bread". Does it come in a
plastic bag?

Of course it comes in a plastic bag

how else am I going to buy sliced bread?

Walk into a baker's shop and ask them to slice the loaf you want. Of
course, it will then have to go into some sort of bag for convenience of
carrying. BTW, when I said we regulated the size of bread, that was by
weight, not by shape.

--
Colin Bignell

On Thu, 12 May 2016 19:06:15 +0100, Nightjar cpb wrote:

BTW, when I said we regulated the size of bread, that was by weight,
not by shape.

Umm, I'd be really quite impressed if you remembered the introduction of
the Assize of Bread and Ale, 1266... Similarly unlikely you'd remember
the Bread Act of 1822, which fixed the weight of a loaf to one pound.

Some might possibly remember the WW2 reduction from 1lb to 14oz, to save
flour, and many here might remember that reduction being made permanent
in 1963.

I suspect almost all here would remember that weight being metricated -
from 397g to 400g - in 1977.

But I'm surprised how few remember the weights of bread loaves being
DEregulated in 2008, for the first time in 750 years...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...les-abandoned-
after-750-years.html

OMG! EUROPE INTERFERING WITH OUR RIGHT TO ONLY HAVE RIGIDLY FIXED WEIGHT
LOAVES! *******S!

On 12/05/2016 09:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
All I ever toast is pita bread. Doesn't fit ANY toaster I've come across

Sigh. I s'pose that's why its called P.I.T.A...

The Kenwood TTM310 or similar take most pitta adequately well. They can
also warm through fresh or frozen croissants and quite a few other
individual bread products.

Sadly:

Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenwood-TTM.../dp/B000TZX2YW

And I absolutely refuse to sell or give away either the one in use in
the kitchen or the brand new spare sitting in our loft.

--
Rod

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

Actually burnt bread (and protein for that matter) creates
carcinogenic subtances.

Anything that tastes good is bad for you.

There was a song about that "It's illegal, immoral or it makes you fat"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 12/05/2016 19:24, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 19:06:15 +0100, Nightjar cpb wrote:

BTW, when I said we regulated the size of bread, that was by weight,
not by shape.

Umm, I'd be really quite impressed if you remembered the introduction of
the Assize of Bread and Ale, 1266... Similarly unlikely you'd remember
the Bread Act of 1822, which fixed the weight of a loaf to one pound.

Some might possibly remember the WW2 reduction from 1lb to 14oz, to save
flour, and many here might remember that reduction being made permanent
in 1963.

I suspect almost all here would remember that weight being metricated -
from 397g to 400g - in 1977.

But I'm surprised how few remember the weights of bread loaves being
DEregulated in 2008, for the first time in 750 years...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...les-abandoned-
after-750-years.html

OMG! EUROPE INTERFERING WITH OUR RIGHT TO ONLY HAVE RIGIDLY FIXED WEIGHT
LOAVES! *******S!

I do wish that standardised packages were imposed. My current hate is
that ground coffee typically comes in three sizes - 250, 227 and 200
grams. As far as I can see, the only reason for the smaller sizes is to
confuse and mislead customers. Most European makes seem to be standard
250 grams whereas many UK brands use 227 grams and, more recently, seem
to have ever more frequently undercut that with 200 grams.

I would not be against, for example, single-serving packages or whatever
special purposes products might exist being produced in other
appropriate sizes. But the standard commodity packages should be
standard weight.

--
Rod

On 12/05/2016 19:24, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 19:06:15 +0100, Nightjar cpb wrote:

BTW, when I said we regulated the size of bread, that was by weight,
not by shape.

Umm, I'd be really quite impressed if you remembered the introduction of
the Assize of Bread and Ale, 1266...

I don't remember 1266 personally, but that was one of the regulations I
had in mind.

Similarly unlikely you'd remember
the Bread Act of 1822, which fixed the weight of a loaf to one pound.

The 1822 Act only applied to London. Other areas were covered by the
Bread Act 1836.

Some might possibly remember the WW2 reduction from 1lb to 14oz, to save
flour, and many here might remember that reduction being made permanent
in 1963.

I suspect almost all here would remember that weight being metricated -
from 397g to 400g - in 1977.

But I'm surprised how few remember the weights of bread loaves being
DEregulated in 2008, for the first time in 750 years...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...les-abandoned-
after-750-years.html

OMG! EUROPE INTERFERING WITH OUR RIGHT TO ONLY HAVE RIGIDLY FIXED WEIGHT
LOAVES! *******S!



--
Colin Bignell

En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~pjj/cs1011/toasters

Great article, thanks

And, on cue, from the latest Private Eye:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/go66q62idi...aster.jpg?dl=0

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

On 12/05/2016 15:27, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

It's quite possible they are looking at all domestic appliances.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/LKD/?uri=CELEX:32009L0125

So far on the ze list ...

micro generation

Could be a good idea.

lamps/lighting

We had years of crappy CFLs that haven't started giving as much light as
a candle by the time you've walked up or down the stairs and a horrible
colour light from them too. Now that the LEDs are available things are
improving. The banning of traditional lighbulbs was brought in before a
proper alternative was available.

solid fuel heaters/boilers
professional refrigeration units

Sensible to encourage good efficiencies for these.

games consoles

If you're running software that pushes the limits of what can be done on
reasonably priced hardware, you're going to use a lot of power. I would
hope efficiencies are aimed at standby power, DVD playing, streaming
films, etc. rather than limiting power - the fast switching of millions
of transistors required for producing quality "3d" video, at high frame
rates, from the interactions of thousands of virtual objects, is bound
to take a lot of power and produce a lot of heat. Any efficiencies in
new design are likely to be used to improve processing power for the
same electricity consumption.

ventilation units

As long as they both work and are affordable. For instance mandating
heat recovery units may make sense long term, but makes a simple
bathroom or kitchen ventilator unaffordable for many.

power transformers

Already very efficient.

domestic ovens and hobs

I wouldn't have thought that you could really improve the efficiency of
hobs much, they are sureky 100% efficient at generating heat, it is the
pans that lose most of it and insulating those will cause problems in
dealing with boil-overs.

Ovens can be made more efficient by heavy insulation, but there is only
so much space in small kitchens for an oven, so thick walls would not be
acceptable, as you'd either have to have wider ovens or smaller
Christmas turkeys!

electric motors

Already pretty efficient and improvements are likely to be by adding
complex electronics, which will increase the cost to unaffordable levels
for many devices.

household washing machines/driers

The AAA -F rating already works well for that, without mandating
specific fugures that could lead to compromises on washing quality. No
good making your machine to use very little water or power if it means
the user has to put it on a longer wash or wash everything twice to get
it clean.

water heaters

Cost of fuel is sufficient to make high efficiency a selling point and
drive others out of the market.

televisions

Are they planning to limit the size of TV you can have, because TVs are
getting bigger and bigger TVs use more power than smaller ones.

water pumps

Industrial or domestic? The only water pump most households have is in
the central heating/hot water system. Any inefficiency there simply
turns electricity into heat - heat that you are using anyway.

vacuum cleaners

As I've said before, a limit is not a good idea, the compromise of
defaulting to a lower power, but being able to switch to a higher power
when needed works for me and at least 95% of the time, the higher power
is not used - but it's there when needed.

computers and servers

What is efficiency? Standby power? Running power for certain operations?
When running, like games consoles, you may be needing a lot of computing
power, so limits on consumption are again no use. Higher speeds also
means higher losses, so you can't simply mandate efficiency either, as
the higher speed may be a necessity and higher losses may simply have to
be accepted.

What would be useful is a hibernate mode that can return to full
operation instantly - and I don't mean even short start-up times. We
have a home server that does a number of things. It is quite powerful
(and power hungry), as at times it has had to host virtual machines
carrying out normal home server functions, while also acting as a domain
controller, simulated PLC I/O, scada server, scada clients and network
monitoring computer - for software testing purposes. Most of the time,
though it would actually be ideal if it could hibernate, but wake in a
fraction of a second to pick up email or make a file available or stream
music or video on demand and then go back to sleep.

air conditioners and comfort fans

Good to improve efficiency, but I hope that they don't simply ban more
powerful models. A small, low powered fan is fine on your office desk,
but isn't much use when you want to keep two or three people cool on a
settee, but need the fan pretty far away, so as not to obstruct the floor.

fans driven by motors between 125W and 500kW

Ok. Probably mainly industrial.

dishwashers

Again, this could be self-defeating. Increase the efficiency by reducing
power and water use and you are likely (in the real world) to have to
choose say the 2 hour wash instead of the 1-1/2 hour one all the time to
ensure that everything actually comes out clean. So more consumption
(and more heat loss).

Brian Gaff wrote

Actually those advocating leaving the EU will not find that this stops
this kind of thing either,

We'll see...

as in order to sell in the EU products will have to comply and hence still
be lower powered just the same,

But Britain doesn’t export that much of that sort of thing
to the EU anymore, its almost all manufactured in China
now and so that stuff is their problem, not Britain's.

China chooses to flout the regulations and so it
won't really affect China much and even if it does,
that's their problem, not Britain's.

And with the silliest regulation, I bet we see plenty of products
that choose to ignore what the EU requires because there are
FAR more consumers outside the EU than inside it so those
better performing products with bigger motors in the vacuums
etc will be available to consumers outside the EU and that would
include Britain if it chooses to leave the EU.

So your claim has a problem.


and of course as China is the main source for toaster innards these days,
the whole world will get the same problem

Nope, because the world outside the EU is much big
enough to provide a viable market for the stuff that
doesn’t comply with the most stupid of the EU regulations.

except where they are using a different mains voltage of course.

Plenty of stuff will work on any mains voltage now.

As for self toasting toast. I thin this has been tried before and was
considered a bit of a failure due to it bursting into flames or tasting
like cardboard.

Just because someone couldn’t manage to do it doesn’t mean its not possible.


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/16 09:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Given the state of modern "cooking skills", pre-packed toast ?


There's a patentable idea there.

Bread coated with a conductive film that gets hot in the microwave,.
toasts the bread and ablates off.

On 12/05/2016 16:43, Adrian wrote:
On Thu, 12 May 2016 16:33:44 +0100, Chris B wrote:

Just to give credit to the EU (for once - I don't usually) I think that
the real reason is not to increase efficiency of the kettle but to
reduce the peak load on the generation system when 10 million of them
are turned on at half time in the cup final. Ten million 2.4 kw kettles
is a lot lower peak demand than 10 million 3.0 kw kettles, so you don't
have to have the same peak capacity in the generating system (so their
beloved wind-mills might look more attractive).

Time wasted by 30 million people waiting longer every time they boil the
kettle day in day out cup final or no cup final is of course not counted
by the EU efficiency plonkers

'course, if those 10m kettles were better insulated, then less heat would
be lost while the water is being boiled, and less heat would have been
lost before the kettle is next boiled.

But if you use high powered kettles, the heating time is short and
losses will be minimal. If you also use the right amount of water, there
will be no real stored heat for next time either. It would make sense
for an office kettle though, as people tend to fill those and turn them
on after they've made a drink, so that the next person will find a
nearly boiling kettle.

On 12/05/2016 17:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
My upright is a pretty old Panasonic. Works ok and will only be
replaced when it breaks. Dyson make a big point about their super
efficient motors etc - so surely must work at least as well as this
1000 watt upright?

So why don't the EU do someothing useful in comparing such things rather
than ban something just on comsumption of power.

If they set an upper limit on power input, those who can't make a decent
vacuum with that power will go out of business.

Yes, but it is a relative measure. Even the best of those lower powered
vacs may not have as much suction as one that would be a little over the
limit - and that might matter.

On 12/05/2016 17:24, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
To me, the main advantage of a slow cooker is things don't get ruined
if left on a long time.

'That's an advantage !, what happens if you forget to switch it on ?
There's a few things I buy that are slow cooked, all it takes is 5 mins
then 1 min standing then another 3 mins in the microwave and I have a
meal ready, no wating about for hours adn I can decide what I want 10
mins before eating rather than have to decide what I want or how hungry
I'll be in 10 yuors time.

Each to their own. I prefer a stew etc I actually know what is in it. ;-)

I completely agree about home made stews and slow cookers. Wonderful
taste and texture and great to come in from work or elsewhere at pretty
much any time in the evening and to be greeted with a wonderful smell
and just be able to serve up and eat.

On 12/05/2016 11:48, Tim Streater wrote:
In article ,
wrote:

It would be a bit extreme to see the steering wheel move from right to
left
halfway through the channel tunnel though ...

You'd have to exchange the front seat passengers too.

Not if they can drive too. Great way to share the driving!

More seriously. It is surely reaching the stage of reliability now
(especially if we are thinking of self-driving cars even being allowed
on the roads) that we could dispense with a physical connection for
steering and actually have cars and trucks that you could unclip the
controls from and swap to the other side?

On 12/05/2016 15:27, Andy Burns wrote:
fans driven by motors between 125W and 500kW

I am struggling to think of a use for a 500kW fan...

(But not as much as I'd be struggling to pay the electricity bill even
if it were 100% efficient.)

--
Rod

On 12/05/2016 16:38, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 12 May 2016 15:18:09 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:
On 12/05/16 10:47, Brian Gaff wrote:

As for kettles, I do think more efficent kettles can be made, the basic
designs have not changed since the 1950s.

How? 99% of the energy goes into the water with a tiny tiny bit lost in
the lead and through the case.

Have you every heard or seen steam come out of teh spout.
Have you ever touched the side of a kettle.

When you switch a kettle off it doesn't stay boiling for very long does it.

Well it wouldn't. Boiling absorbs energy (latent heat of vapourisation)
and when you switch off you stop adding energy.

On 12/05/2016 18:45, tim... wrote:

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Chris Hogg
escribió:

(Do they actually make toast in Europe, or is
this just a clandestine anti-Brit thing?).

No, because they get lovely fresh bread (not sliced, homogenised crap,
but rolls, croissants, etc.) from a local bakery every day. That's my
experience of Poland, Germany, France, Holland, and Spain anyway.

when I lived in Italy, in the summer you had to buy your fresh baked
bread in the morning

if you didn't, it was rock-hard and inedible

From my experience of French bread, you have to go out and buy it in
the morning and again later in the day, because any you've bought in the
morning will have solidified by mid afternoon.

On 12/05/2016 11:40, wrote:
It would be a bit extreme to see the steering wheel move from right
to left halfway through the channel tunnel though, but headlamps
could self-align.

I can already switch beam to suit LHD. (I think it isn't actually 100% -
rather it avoids blinding oncoming but doesn't operate quite as well as
true LHD headlamps.)

It would also be rather sensible for high intensity rear lamps and
reversing lights to also be able to switch appropriately.

Other than security issues (you wouldn't want anyone playing about with
your settings while you are driving, would you?), it should be quite
simple to achieve. Until someone changes a rule somewhere... Or forgets
the unlikely possibility of the tunnel train having to reverse back and
disembark everyone - but the headlamps are still on LHD settings...

--
Rod

On Thu, 12 May 2016 20:13:30 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

As for kettles, I do think more efficent kettles can be made, the
basic designs have not changed since the 1950s.

How? 99% of the energy goes into the water with a tiny tiny bit lost
in the lead and through the case.

Have you every heard or seen steam come out of teh spout.
Have you ever touched the side of a kettle.

When you switch a kettle off it doesn't stay boiling for very long does
it.

Well it wouldn't. Boiling absorbs energy (latent heat of vapourisation)
and when you switch off you stop adding energy.

Have you come across this wonderful new invention, the thermos flask?

On 5/12/2016 3:31 PM, Tim Streater wrote:

Or have two steering wheels like they do in planes.

I was taught to drive in a car with two steering wheels.

On Thu, 12 May 2016 19:44:08 +0100, Nightjar cpb wrote:

Umm, I'd be really quite impressed if you remembered the introduction
of the Assize of Bread and Ale, 1266...

I don't remember 1266 personally, but that was one of the regulations I
had in mind.

Similarly unlikely you'd remember the Bread Act of 1822, which fixed
the weight of a loaf to one pound.

The 1822 Act only applied to London. Other areas were covered by the
Bread Act 1836.

I bow to your recollection... grin

On 12/05/16 19:03, Steve Walker wrote:
On 12/05/2016 14:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/05/16 13:40, Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

The fuss over the vacuum cleaner thing was amazing. Most of it coming
from
those who've never touched one in their lives.

Has anyone here had to replace one since the "eco" ones were introduced?
Any comments on relative performance?

I just got myself a 'henry' At 650W its about as powerful and a lot
quieter than my yonks old 1300W one was.

Mine is pre the power reduction, but has two power settings. It always
defaults to the lower power and that usually does everything, so we
rarely select the higher setting, but there are occassions where
switching it to the higher power does help. That was surely a sensible
compromise?

Mine has two power settings as well/

They reintroduced it.


--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 12/05/2016 20:40, Tim Streater wrote:

Then it was proper bread. Becoming harder to find in France these days.

Even now, France has much tighter controls over "other" ingredients. Not
that I am against bread making people being inventive, but I am against
things like the near-universal addition of soy flour.

--
Rod

On 12/05/16 19:29, polygonum wrote:
On 12/05/2016 09:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
All I ever toast is pita bread. Doesn't fit ANY toaster I've come across

Sigh. I s'pose that's why its called P.I.T.A...

The Kenwood TTM310 or similar take most pitta adequately well. They can
also warm through fresh or frozen croissants and quite a few other
individual bread products.

Sadly:

Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenwood-TTM.../dp/B000TZX2YW


And I absolutely refuse to sell or give away either the one in use in
the kitchen or the brand new spare sitting in our loft.

there's a newer model but £100+ seems a lot for a toaster


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 12/05/16 20:09, polygonum wrote:
On 12/05/2016 15:27, Andy Burns wrote:
fans driven by motors between 125W and 500kW

I am struggling to think of a use for a 500kW fan...


You could fly a reasonable plane on a 500KW fan..


(But not as much as I'd be struggling to pay the electricity bill even
if it were 100% efficient.)



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx