Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

On 11/05/2016 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You don't - you make it less efficient by making it less powerful. Ego
it will use slightly more energy over all, but it uses "less power" (if
you are a politician)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

Oh, that 2014 fabricated scare-story's come out of hibernation, has it?

What a surprise.

Even the Telegraph backtracked on it a few months ago.

On 11/05/16 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Sprinkle the bread with whiskey* before toasting?


* Other flammable spirits are available ...

--
Adrian C

On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.
How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You surround it with thermal insulation so more of the heat goes into the bread and less comes out of the slots at the top.

Owain

On 11/05/2016 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You use a radiant element which has a particularly favourable range of
wavelengths for browning.

You use a radiant element which only emits where there is bread.

You hang your toast-to-be on a washing line or rack and allow most of
its moisture content to evaporate before trying to toast it.

You use sophisticated controls so that you never suffer the double-cost
of burning the toast and then having to toast another batch. (Including
disposing of the burnt toast, using more toast-to-be, cleaning the
toaster and surrounding area, redecorating the kitchen, etc.)

--
Rod

On 11/05/2016 18:30, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

Oh, that 2014 fabricated scare-story's come out of hibernation, has it?

What a surprise.

Even the Telegraph backtracked on it a few months ago.

Well its not come out of hibernation yet - its been put on the "back
burner" (If we are still allowed to have such things) until after the
referendum in case it makes people vote to leave.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36642906-d...#axzz48NVyRLIh

But after the referendum I will wager its "full steam ahead" (well
partial steam ahead anyway from our new low power kettles).

--
Chris B (News)

On 11/05/2016 20:42, polygonum wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You use a radiant element which has a particularly favourable range of
wavelengths for browning.

You use a radiant element which only emits where there is bread.

You hang your toast-to-be on a washing line or rack and allow most of
its moisture content to evaporate before trying to toast it.

You use sophisticated controls so that you never suffer the double-cost
of burning the toast and then having to toast another batch. (Including
disposing of the burnt toast, using more toast-to-be, cleaning the
toaster and surrounding area, redecorating the kitchen, etc.)

But none of that reverses the simple physical fact that
cooking/heating/baking/toasting will all use less energy by using a high
power for a short time than using lower power for a longer period due to
heat loss - nop matter how good the insulation.

On 11/05/2016 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?


Use dry bread.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 11/05/2016 21:25, Steve Walker wrote:
On 11/05/2016 20:42, polygonum wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You use a radiant element which has a particularly favourable range of
wavelengths for browning.

You use a radiant element which only emits where there is bread.

You hang your toast-to-be on a washing line or rack and allow most of
its moisture content to evaporate before trying to toast it.

You use sophisticated controls so that you never suffer the double-cost
of burning the toast and then having to toast another batch. (Including
disposing of the burnt toast, using more toast-to-be, cleaning the
toaster and surrounding area, redecorating the kitchen, etc.)

But none of that reverses the simple physical fact that
cooking/heating/baking/toasting will all use less energy by using a high
power for a short time than using lower power for a longer period due to
heat loss - nop matter how good the insulation.

I agree. Doesn't mean there aren't things that could be done if the aim
is simply lower electricity consumption.

--
Rod

Steve Walker wrote:
But none of that reverses the simple physical fact that
cooking/heating/baking/toasting will all use less energy by using a high
power for a short time than using lower power for a longer period due to
heat loss - nop matter how good the insulation.

Funnily enough, my microwave cooks food quicker than my gas oven, and with a
lower thermal input. Probably cheaper too, despite electricity costing
4x the price of gas per kWh.

It's not the power that counts, it's what you do with it.

Theo

On 11/05/2016 21:25, Steve Walker wrote:
On 11/05/2016 20:42, polygonum wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You use a radiant element which has a particularly favourable range of
wavelengths for browning.

You use a radiant element which only emits where there is bread.

You hang your toast-to-be on a washing line or rack and allow most of
its moisture content to evaporate before trying to toast it.

You use sophisticated controls so that you never suffer the double-cost
of burning the toast and then having to toast another batch. (Including
disposing of the burnt toast, using more toast-to-be, cleaning the
toaster and surrounding area, redecorating the kitchen, etc.)

But none of that reverses the simple physical fact that
cooking/heating/baking/toasting will all use less energy by using a high
power for a short time than using lower power for a longer period due to
heat loss - nop matter how good the insulation.

baking/toasting I agree with you but long slow cooking with a slow
cooker is I think more efficient than using an oven for stews and soups.
(I don't fancy toast or roasties made in a slow cooker however)

--
Chris B (News)

Chris B wrote:
baking/toasting I agree with you but long slow cooking with a slow
cooker is I think more efficient than using an oven for stews and soups.

When I lived in Hong Kong I had a slow cooker, I'd dump scraggy lumps
of meat and veg in it before going to work in the morning, when I got
home in the evening a delicious stoo. From memory it had something
like a 50W heater in it. 50W for 8 hours or so? 400Whr, 0.4kWhr, 5p?

jgh

Chris B wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:30, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

Oh, that 2014 fabricated scare-story's come out of hibernation, has it?

What a surprise.

Even the Telegraph backtracked on it a few months ago.

Well its not come out of hibernation yet - its been put on the "back
burner" (If we are still allowed to have such things) until after the
referendum in case it makes people vote to leave.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36642906-d...#axzz48NVyRLIh


But after the referendum I will wager its "full steam ahead" (well
partial steam ahead anyway from our new low power kettles).


Oh dear, back to buying for stock again! I'm sure the real reason
is to lower electricity demand as the generating capacity is being
destroyed by the EU eco warriors. Back to coal fires people.

On 11/05/2016 20:29, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.
How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You surround it with thermal insulation so more of the heat goes into the bread and less comes out of the slots at the top.

Owain

A good starting point would be if the piggin bread actually fitted the
piggin toaster!

Toaster manufacturers obviously don't measure bread and bakers obviously
never measure toasters!


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
On 11/05/2016 20:29, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.
How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You surround it with thermal insulation so more of the heat goes into the
bread and less comes out of the slots at the top.

Owain

A good starting point would be if the piggin bread actually fitted the
piggin toaster!

Toaster manufacturers obviously don't measure bread and bakers obviously
never measure toasters!

O well, after we (I hate to say it) vote to stay in it'll prolly be law to
fix bread sizes.
Actually, any stupidity will prolly become law.
I don't think your average euro**** (MEP) has the sense they were born with.
I just love this clip -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5jUavMXQrs

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
On 11/05/2016 20:29, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.
How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You surround it with thermal insulation so more of the heat goes into the
bread and less comes out of the slots at the top.

Owain

A good starting point would be if the piggin bread actually fitted the
piggin toaster!

Toaster manufacturers obviously don't measure bread and bakers obviously
never measure toasters!

My bread fits fine in my toaster.

On 11/05/2016 22:58, wrote:
Chris B wrote:
baking/toasting I agree with you but long slow cooking with a slow
cooker is I think more efficient than using an oven for stews and soups.

When I lived in Hong Kong I had a slow cooker, I'd dump scraggy lumps
of meat and veg in it before going to work in the morning, when I got
home in the evening a delicious stoo. From memory it had something
like a 50W heater in it. 50W for 8 hours or so? 400Whr, 0.4kWhr, 5p?

jgh

Conveniently ignoring that most slow cooker recipes talk about putting
HOT ingredients into them. And often frying off at least some ingredients.

Most of the ones I remember have a range of settings from something like
100 to 250 watts.

--
Rod

On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You bring the elements nearer to the bread.

En el artículo , Andy Burns
escribió:

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Make a single-slice one for those of us who want just one slice, but
have to warm up two (or more)?

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You bring the elements nearer to the bread.

But the element to bread distance will change what the toast is like.

If the elements are *very* close to the bread (and hot enough) you get
a black outside and a soggy inside to your toast. If they're a long
way away you just get dried bread that isn't brown at all.

--
Chris Green
·

On 12/05/2016 00:46, bm wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
....
Toaster manufacturers obviously don't measure bread and bakers obviously
never measure toasters!

O well, after we (I hate to say it) vote to stay in it'll prolly be law to
fix bread sizes...

Actually, it was the EU that stopped us from regulating bread sizes.

--
Colin Bignell

En el artículo , Jethro_uk
escribió:

*the best way to make toasters more efficient is to make them last
slightly longer than a few months.

My kettle and toaster are over 30 years old. They're stainless steel
and black plastic in a modern style, so look contemporary even now.

The only thing I've has to fix to replace the indicator neon in the
kettle about 10 years ago.

Kenwood, for that that's worth in this age of branding Chinese junk.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) Windows 10: less of an OS, more of a drive-by mugging.
(")_(") -- "Esme" on el Reg

On 11/05/16 21:44, polygonum wrote:


I agree. Doesn't mean there aren't things that could be done if the aim
is simply lower electricity consumption.

Yeah. Take east enders off the telly.

That should save a bit.


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 12/05/16 00:24, David Lang wrote:
On 11/05/2016 20:29, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.
How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You surround it with thermal insulation so more of the heat goes into
the bread and less comes out of the slots at the top.

Owain

A good starting point would be if the piggin bread actually fitted the
piggin toaster!

Toaster manufacturers obviously don't measure bread and bakers obviously
never measure toasters!


All I ever toast is pita bread. Doesn't fit ANY toaster I've come across

Sigh. I s'pose that's why its called P.I.T.A...


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 12/05/16 09:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Given the state of modern "cooking skills", pre-packed toast ?


There's a patentable idea there.

Bread coated with a conductive film that gets hot in the microwave,.
toasts the bread and ablates off.


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On 12/05/16 09:39, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Jethro_uk
escribió:

*the best way to make toasters more efficient is to make them last
slightly longer than a few months.

My kettle and toaster are over 30 years old. They're stainless steel
and black plastic in a modern style, so look contemporary even now.

The only thing I've has to fix to replace the indicator neon in the
kettle about 10 years ago.

Kenwood, for that that's worth in this age of branding Chinese junk.

I knew someone who finally ditched their 1957 fridge in 2000. Bemoaning
how modern fridges etc etc.

Then I asked how much it had cost in 1957. The answer was around £2000
in today's money.


--
You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a
kind word alone.

Al Capone

On 12/05/16 09:56, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/05/16 21:44, polygonum wrote:


I agree. Doesn't mean there aren't things that could be done if the aim
is simply lower electricity consumption.

Yeah. Take east enders off the telly.

That should save a bit.

Nah, meter residential consumers in kVA instead of Watts.

--
Adrian C

"Nightjar cpb.me.uk" "insert my surname here wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2016 00:46, bm wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
...
Toaster manufacturers obviously don't measure bread and bakers obviously
never measure toasters!

O well, after we (I hate to say it) vote to stay in it'll prolly be law
to
fix bread sizes...

Actually, it was the EU that stopped us from regulating bread sizes.


quite right too

gummerment has no business in telling bakers what shape bread they have to
make, market forces should dictate that.

But market forces having settled on a rectangular (not square) slice
size/shape that seems to have been constants for much of my lifetime, the
toaster makers apparent insistence that their product requires slices to be
square is ridiculous.

tim

wrote:
wrote:

On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You bring the elements nearer to the bread.

But the element to bread distance will change what the toast is like.

If the elements are *very* close to the bread (and hot enough) you get
a black outside and a soggy inside to your toast. If they're a long
way away you just get dried bread that isn't brown at all.

If it's too close, you get zebra toast!

I don't know but I'm getting really ****ed off about cleaners. I have a
newish Bosch. It slows right down cos it overheats if yu use it for more
than about 10 minutes on full suck. A Henry very recently purchased has now
a smaller motor and half the muck ends up inside the pipe and has to be
cleaned out every time its used in anything but a dustless house.
What is going on?


As for kettles, I do think more efficent kettles can be made, the basic
designs have not changed since the 1950s.
Toasters are another issue. I'd imagine something could be done to make
them toast more evenly, but power wise they do seem to lose a lot of heat,
so if you could make them perhaps more efficient at the frequencies that
toast tthings then fine. trouble is that people have been used to buying
toasters at just over a fiver in Tesco, so if suddenly they are 50 quid
people will start to moan.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

On 12/05/2016 09:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Given the state of modern "cooking skills", pre-packed toast ?

.... "this is not just Toast, but M&S ultra high fibre toast with every
slice hand shaped on the thigh of a virgin, and buttered with butter
made from Honduran Lama milk"


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Actually those advocating leaving the EU will not find that this stops this
kind of thing either, as in order to sell in the EU products will have to
comply and hence still be lower powered just the same, and of course as
China is the main source for toaster innards these days, the whole world
will get the same problem except where they are using a different mains
voltage of course.

As for self toasting toast. I thin this has been tried before and was
considered a bit of a failure due to it bursting into flames or tasting like
cardboard.
brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/16 09:07, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Given the state of modern "cooking skills", pre-packed toast ?


There's a patentable idea there.

Bread coated with a conductive film that gets hot in the microwave,.
toasts the bread and ablates off.


--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 20:29:31 UTC+1, wrote:
On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 18:03:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.
How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

You surround it with thermal insulation so more of the heat goes into the bread and less comes out of the slots at the top.

Owain

Put the slots at the bottom :-)

On Wednesday, 11 May 2016 23:08:56 UTC+1, Capitol wrote:
Chris B wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:30, Adrian wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 18:03:29 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Then they came for vacuum cleaners, soon kettles and toasters.

Oh, that 2014 fabricated scare-story's come out of hibernation, has it?

What a surprise.

Even the Telegraph backtracked on it a few months ago.

Well its not come out of hibernation yet - its been put on the "back
burner" (If we are still allowed to have such things) until after the
referendum in case it makes people vote to leave.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/36642906-d...#axzz48NVyRLIh


But after the referendum I will wager its "full steam ahead" (well
partial steam ahead anyway from our new low power kettles).


Oh dear, back to buying for stock again! I'm sure the real reason
is to lower electricity demand as the generating capacity is being
destroyed by the EU eco warriors. Back to coal fires people.

Toast tasted better on an open fire from what I remmeber.

On Thu, 12 May 2016 08:04:09 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

En el artÃ*culo , Andy Burns
escribió:

How *do* you make a toaster more efficient?

Make a single-slice one for those of us who want just one slice, but
have to warm up two (or more)?

Our Dualit has a single slice setting.

On 12/05/16 10:51, Brian Gaff wrote:
Actually those advocating leaving the EU will not find that this stops this
kind of thing either, as in order to sell in the EU products will have to
comply and hence still be lower powered just the same, and of course as
China is the main source for toaster innards these days, the whole world
will get the same problem except where they are using a different mains
voltage of course.

Look: back in the day MGBS destined for the US market had air pumps to
add air to the exhausts to lower the ratio of CO* etc etc.

They were not fitted to UK models


As for self toasting toast. I thin this has been tried before and was
considered a bit of a failure due to it bursting into flames or tasting like
cardboard.

But toast tastes like cardboard anyway, if the bread is made by the
'chorley' method

brian


*But not of course the total amount emitted. A test of that nature would
have invalidated every V8 in the USA...

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 12/05/16 10:57, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:

Actually those advocating leaving the EU will not find that this
stops this kind of thing either, as in order to sell in the EU
products will have to comply and hence still be lower powered just the
same, and of course as China is the main source for toaster innards
these days, the whole world will get the same problem except where
they are using a different mains voltage of course.

Nonsense. They can just put a beefier element in toasters for non-EU
countries.

I remember a really ling time ago, that mopeds in IIRC Switzerland were
restricted to a certain speed or power - forget which, but could be
ridden by 15 years olds.

Of course the pin that restricted the power was easily removed.

My freelander has had some EGR valve - that lowers emissions a bit -
removed and has gained power and economy as a results. Its a standard mod...

The price of electr9onics these days means that a basic 1.5KW motor can
be restricted to say 650W...remove the PCB and recover the power...

We have always had to build for particular markets. So what?


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Thursday, 12 May 2016 11:31:56 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
My freelander has had some EGR valve - that lowers emissions a bit -
removed and has gained power and economy as a results. Its a standard mod...
The price of electr9onics these days means that a basic 1.5KW motor can
be restricted to say 650W...remove the PCB and recover the power...

Inbuilt GPS now mean that vehicles and appliances could self-configure to local regulations.

It would be a bit extreme to see the steering wheel move from right to left halfway through the channel tunnel though, but headlamps could self-align.

Owain

On Thu, 12 May 2016 10:10:36 +0100, tim... wrote:

But market forces having settled on a rectangular (not square) slice
size/shape that seems to have been constants for much of my lifetime,

Really?

None of the bread we have is "rectangular".