"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 23/08/2014 01:02, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
And yet... 20 years ago I bought a Nilfisk that had 900W of motor
power and it suckethed mightily, so mightily I thought the carpet
would come up.

An enormous number of years ago, I did a spell cleaning a hospital. We had
a range of vacuum cleaners. Of those, the Nilfisks were astonishingly good
(I think they were 900W). I detested the BVC/Goblins because they were so
noisy whereas the Nilfisks outperformed them at an incredibly low noise
level. I also rather liked the aluminium pot on wheels design. The worst
that I can remember were various Hoovers.

Exactly so.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.

You mean Bosch already sell more efficient cleaners?

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 24/08/2014 15:21, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , John Williamson
wrote:

On 24/08/2014 15:02, Broadback wrote:
On 24/08/2014 09:00, Richard wrote:

The main reason I don't have a Dyson vacuum cleaner is because he
seems
to be a whiney git.
The idea is to reduce energy use, but how does work if the vacuum
cleaner has to be passed over the same area more often to pick up the
dust? The EU is also on planning to reduce the power of other domestic
devices, including kettles. Now if I wish to boil, say a litre of water
that, is at say 20 degrees C, surely it will take the same amount of
energy whether I do it with a low wattage or high wattage device. Or am
I missing something here?

Yes, you will use *more* energy doing the job with a lower power
kettle due to the increased losses through the skin of the kettle due
to it being hot longer.

Exactly.

Exactly what though? Is anybody proposing lower power kettles?

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.



Just out of interest, I have run a check on my best vacuum cleaner,
which is 110V. Sucking it draws 8.8A but with the flow blocked it only
draws 7.6A. So, it's using about 1KW. 1.8KW, unless it's a specmanship
game, seems like overkill. Maybe someone else can run a similar test and
let us know the results

On 24/08/2014 21:48, Capitol wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.



Just out of interest, I have run a check on my best vacuum cleaner,
which is 110V. Sucking it draws 8.8A but with the flow blocked it only
draws 7.6A. So, it's using about 1KW. 1.8KW, unless it's a specmanship
game, seems like overkill. Maybe someone else can run a similar test and
let us know the results

There is likely to be a substantial reactive component, so the actual
power might be a lot lower than the VA you're quoting.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 20:47:45 +0100, Clive George
wrote:

Exactly what though? Is anybody proposing lower power kettles?

Oh gawed. I can see it now - huddled around a candle for warmth while
the 200W camping element slowly (if ever) brings the water up to where
it's just tepid enough to infuse some taste from a teabag.

That's what it'll be like when the oil runs out. Of course, according
to some stupid *******s on here, it never will, and by the time it
does, we'd have pulled some magic fairy dust out of our arses.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:41:54 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

Nilfisk used to be the queen of vacuum cleaners years ago.
Indestructible virtually.
Cost about four times the competition.

I'm convinced. Since the demise of the Nilfisk's second motor caused
by blockage of dog hair, I've been looking at building a properly
future-proofed one, using s/h parts picked up cheap as chips.
That notion's come about because the lack of Nilfisk led to the
purchase of several other vacuums in its stead, all of which died a
noisy (and in some cases, spectacular) death as they got worn out and
clogged. The major design part of the Nilfisk was its resistance to
clogging and the only reason it got neglected was through sheer memory
failure from time to time. It would still be running fine if it hadn't
been killed.
Now the long-haired dog has gone, there's much less of a challenge in
place anyhow.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.

You mean Bosch already sell more efficient cleaners?

Dunno. But their styline kettle, though not cheap, works for me.
http://www.bosch-home.co.uk/our-prod...TWK8633GB.html
Had my doubts at first - daughter wanted it after previous kettle had died.
Her purchasing decisions based on fashion and backed by mother
Lowering target temperature for certain drinks saves time and energy. The
stay warm feature also is handy.

Richard wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.

You mean Bosch already sell more efficient cleaners?

Dunno. But their styline kettle, though not cheap, works for me.
http://www.bosch-home.co.uk/our-prod...TWK8633GB.html

Had my doubts at first - daughter wanted it after previous kettle had
died. Her purchasing decisions based on fashion and backed by mother
Lowering target temperature for certain drinks saves time and energy.
The stay warm feature also is handy.

IMO totally unnecessary complication. If the cup is thick walled, the
lower temperature gives a cold drink. Experience with a sink mounted
heater showed it was wasting energy as it was necessary to fill up the
mug with hot water, then throw it away to get the drink hot enough to be
able to add milk without the drink becoming too cold and having a table
life of less than 10 minutes. Staying warm is the same as TV standby but
worse, it wastes energy.

On 24/08/2014 21:48, Capitol wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.



Just out of interest, I have run a check on my best vacuum cleaner,
which is 110V. Sucking it draws 8.8A but with the flow blocked it only
draws 7.6A. So, it's using about 1KW. 1.8KW, unless it's a specmanship
game, seems like overkill. Maybe someone else can run a similar test and
let us know the results

A few years ago there was an item on the radio about the development of
the vacuum cleaner. AARI some Japanese manufacturer was interviewed and
it appeared that their "Best" machine was not available in Europe, only
in Japan. When questioned why it seems that the Japanese regard
European cleanliness standards as rather lax, after all we generally
wear outdoor shoes inside.

I wonder what power the average vacuum on sale in Japan is.

I cant really fins anything on Google at the moment except about the
success of Dyson in Japan.

--
Chris

"harryagain" wrote in message
...

"polygonum" wrote in message
...
On 23/08/2014 01:02, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
And yet... 20 years ago I bought a Nilfisk that had 900W of motor
power and it suckethed mightily, so mightily I thought the carpet
would come up.

An enormous number of years ago, I did a spell cleaning a hospital. We
had a range of vacuum cleaners. Of those, the Nilfisks were astonishingly
good (I think they were 900W). I detested the BVC/Goblins because they
were so noisy whereas the Nilfisks outperformed them at an incredibly low
noise level. I also rather liked the aluminium pot on wheels design. The
worst that I can remember were various Hoovers.

Exactly so.

Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation. It was
an original one from when they first came on the market - all metal sphere
in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to lift itself,
hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile carpet - and float
around at the touch of your finger. It would suck the paint off walls. I
don't recall how powerful the motor was on it, but from the few times that I
did work on it putting in new brushes and I think once a new armature
because the commutator was worn so much (she used it a lot !) I don't seem
to remember it being very big. The fan unit, on the other hand, I seem to
think was. It was not a noisy machine either. I suppose that was 50 years
ago now that she first had it.

When she 'retired' it, I took it into work, where we built a little Dexion
trolley for it. It then gave a number of additional years' service, daily
sucking and blowing (it had another hose port at the bottom where the
exhaust air came out to make it float) dust and crap out of every TV set
that came through our busy national-chain TV rental workshop.

Perhaps we've already forgotten the art of building vacuum cleaners, or
maybe it *is* all just driven by price. But I still don't think that "energy
saving" is a valid reason in this particular case, to mess with the existing
technology. It's just another case of an EU department getting a bee in its
bonnet for all the wrong reasons, much like taking lead out of solder ...

Arfa

On 24/08/2014 21:48, Capitol wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.



Just out of interest, I have run a check on my best vacuum cleaner,
which is 110V. Sucking it draws 8.8A but with the flow blocked it only
draws 7.6A. So, it's using about 1KW. 1.8KW, unless it's a specmanship
game, seems like overkill. Maybe someone else can run a similar test and
let us know the results

Blocking the flow will cause the amps to drop. It's moving a volume of
air that takes the power, not the suction.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:41:03 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation. It
was an original one from when they first came on the market - all metal
sphere in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to lift
itself, hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile carpet
- and float around at the touch of your finger. It would suck the paint
off walls. I don't recall how powerful the motor was on it, but from the
few times that I did work on it putting in new brushes and I think once
a new armature because the commutator was worn so much (she used it a
lot !) I don't seem to remember it being very big. The fan unit, on the
other hand,
I seem to think was. It was not a noisy machine either. I suppose that
was 50 years ago now that she first had it.

We've still got a Constellation in working order used occasionally when I
can't be bothered to get the Miele out. (the Miele lives downstairs while
the Constellation lives upstairs). The Conny says 580 Watts on the plate
underneath it and it works as well as the 1600 Watt Miele on its carpet
setting.

--

TOJ.

On 25/08/14 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Arfa Daily
wrote:

It's just another case of an EU department getting a bee in its bonnet
for all the wrong reasons, much like taking lead out of solder ...

and causing problems for makers of church organs as a side effect.


How? If we're talking about leaded solder you can still buy it and use
it - just not for consumer electronics[1] or potable plumbing.

[1] Vehicle electronics, military and safety critical systems can still
use leaded.

On 25/08/2014 10:37, news wrote:

A few years ago there was an item on the radio about the development of
the vacuum cleaner. AARI some Japanese manufacturer was interviewed and
it appeared that their "Best" machine was not available in Europe, only
in Japan. When questioned why it seems that the Japanese regard
European cleanliness standards as rather lax, after all we generally
wear outdoor shoes inside.

Perhaps their best machine is only capable of cleaning a already clean
house and unsuitable for houses where we and our animals drag in dirt
from the outside? Perhaps when compared to the cleaners we can buy they
would come at the bottom of the list?

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
Arfa Daily wrote:
Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation. It
was an original one from when they first came on the market - all metal
sphere in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to
lift itself, hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile
carpet - and float around at the touch of your finger. It would suck
the paint off walls. I don't recall how powerful the motor was on it,
but from the few times that I did work on it putting in new brushes and
I think once a new armature because the commutator was worn so much
(she used it a lot !) I don't seem to remember it being very big. The
fan unit, on the other hand, I seem to think was. It was not a noisy
machine either. I suppose that was 50 years ago now that she first had
it.

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once makers
are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If they're not
forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not of any
importance.

--
*Born free...Taxed to death.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Arfa Daily
wrote:

It's just another case of an EU department getting a bee in its
bonnet for all the wrong reasons, much like taking lead out of solder ...

and causing problems for makers of church organs as a side effect.

Eh? No problem in buying and using leaded solder where it's needed.

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:28:07 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation. It
was an original one from when they first came on the market - all metal
sphere in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to
lift itself, hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile
carpet - and float around at the touch of your finger. It would suck
the paint off walls. I don't recall how powerful the motor was on it,
but from the few times that I did work on it putting in new brushes and
I think once a new armature because the commutator was worn so much
(she used it a lot !) I don't seem to remember it being very big. The
fan unit, on the other hand, I seem to think was. It was not a noisy
machine either. I suppose that was 50 years ago now that she first had
it.

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once makers
are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If they're not
forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not of any
importance.

Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation per
se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure and
simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll pick
holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

In article ,
Adrian wrote:
Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation
per se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure
and simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll
pick holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

Quite. If the EU regulated to abolish income tax they'd still complain.

--
*We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Adrian" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:28:07 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation. It
was an original one from when they first came on the market - all metal
sphere in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to
lift itself, hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile
carpet - and float around at the touch of your finger. It would suck
the paint off walls. I don't recall how powerful the motor was on it,
but from the few times that I did work on it putting in new brushes and
I think once a new armature because the commutator was worn so much
(she used it a lot !) I don't seem to remember it being very big. The
fan unit, on the other hand, I seem to think was. It was not a noisy
machine either. I suppose that was 50 years ago now that she first had
it.

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once makers
are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If they're not
forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not of any
importance.

Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation per
se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure and
simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll pick
holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt scum
paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating every aspect
of my existence.
YMMV

On 23/08/2014 17:36, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 17:14:03 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

Nobody voted for this govt. That's the trouble with coalitions: nobody
votes for them [1].

Nobody _ever_ votes for _any_ Government. People vote for their MP. The
party with most MPs form the Government.


Even worse, the votes of only about 20,000 people in all of the marginal
constituencies, determines the outcome of a general election.

On 22/08/2014 19:09, ARW wrote:
"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
... if we've now got to start shaving a few watts off the motor of an
appliance that these days is probably used no more than 15 minutes a
week, in order to save power. I refer of course to the new vacuum
cleaner motor power directive from our chums at the EU ...

Eco-bollox at its most ludicrous ... :-\


Just goes to prove that Eco-bollox sucks..............




Nothing Sucks like an Electrolux.

In future, the last 3 words will not be required.

In article ,
Richard wrote:
Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt
scum paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating
every aspect of my existence. YMMV

Yes. Far better to allow manufacturers to sell anything they want to
without regulation. After all, they only have the customer's interests at
heart.

--
*Strip mining prevents forest fires.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:44:30 +0100, Richard wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 24/08/14 15:02, Broadback wrote:

The idea is to reduce energy use,

No. The idea is to make all current vacuum cleaners obsolete and
unsalable and ensure that Bosch who are almost certainly behind the
lobby can outsell better Chinese and Japanese vacuums.

You mean Bosch already sell more efficient cleaners?

Dunno. But their styline kettle, though not cheap, works for me.
http://www.bosch-home.co.uk/our-prod...sters/kettles/
TWK8633GB.html
Had my doubts at first - daughter wanted it after previous kettle had
died.
Her purchasing decisions based on fashion and backed by mother
Lowering target temperature for certain drinks saves time and energy.
The stay warm feature also is handy.

Bought one last week as it happens. My decision based on build quality,
filter longevity and being able to choose temperature/stay warm.

Very happy with it so far.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £30a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:20:56 +0100, Richard wrote:

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once
makers are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If
they're not forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not
of any importance.

Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation
per se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure
and simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll
pick holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt
scum paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating
every aspect of my existence.
YMMV

Thank you for proving my point so eloquently.

Because, of course, the UK outside the EU would have no product quality
or energy-efficiency standards and regulations at all. Heavens, no.

On 25/08/2014 13:20, Richard wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:28:07 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation. It
was an original one from when they first came on the market - all metal
sphere in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to
lift itself, hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile
carpet - and float around at the touch of your finger. It would suck
the paint off walls. I don't recall how powerful the motor was on it,
but from the few times that I did work on it putting in new brushes and
I think once a new armature because the commutator was worn so much
(she used it a lot !) I don't seem to remember it being very big. The
fan unit, on the other hand, I seem to think was. It was not a noisy
machine either. I suppose that was 50 years ago now that she first had
it.

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once makers
are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If they're not
forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not of any
importance.

Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation per
se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure and
simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll pick
holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt
scum paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating
every aspect of my existence.
YMMV

I'd agree to a point. The 'government' part of the EU appears
self-serving. But that will involve an element of legitimacy, which will
include taming the excesses of some private enterprise. Remarkably
efficient for it's own purposes, in other words.

As to the 'politics', some of the parties have reform as part of their
manifesto, yet turnout (and interest?) is always low.

Where do you cast your vote?


--
Cheers, Rob

The Medway Handyman wrote:

Capitol wrote:

Just out of interest, I have run a check on my best vacuum cleaner,
which is 110V. Sucking it draws 8.8A but with the flow blocked it only
draws 7.6A. So, it's using about 1KW. 1.8KW, unless it's a specmanship
game, seems like overkill. Maybe someone else can run a similar test and
let us know the results

Blocking the flow will cause the amps to drop. It's moving a volume of
air that takes the power, not the suction.

Mains here today is 251V, my Miele takes

1430W with a PF of 0.96 when running free on max (supposedly 1600W)
540W with a PF of 0.53 when running free on min (supposedly 300W)

the power does drop by 15-20% in both cases when airflow is blocked

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
wrote:
Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt
scum paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating
every aspect of my existence. YMMV

Yes. Far better to allow manufacturers to sell anything they want to
without regulation. After all, they only have the customer's interests at
heart.


It's called a free market. If the customer is stupid enough to buy
crap, hopefully he will learn from experience and the supplier will go
out of business. Incidentally, I believe you buy from ebay! a well known
supplier of crap.

Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:20:56 +0100, Richard wrote:

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once
makers are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If
they're not forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not
of any importance.

Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation
per se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure
and simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll
pick holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt
scum paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating
every aspect of my existence.
YMMV

Thank you for proving my point so eloquently.

Because, of course, the UK outside the EU would have no product quality
or energy-efficiency standards and regulations at all. Heavens, no.

I've been involved in standards work and believe me, the average
standard isn't worth the hot air it's written on in terms of giving the
customer a good product. The only standards I came across which I would
use, were those connected to aviation.

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
It's called a free market. If the customer is stupid enough to buy
crap, hopefully he will learn from experience and the supplier will go
out of business.

And we've all seen how well that works.

-- Richard

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:09:35 +0100, Capitol wrote:

If the customer is stupid enough to buy crap, hopefully he will learn
from experience and the supplier will go out of business.

Care to relate this to the unceasing success of - ****, where to start -
assorted well-known retailers of unmitigated ****e and massively over-
priced products and services?

McDonalds, Fosters lager, B&Q etc etc etc.

Incidentally, I believe you buy from ebay! a well known supplier of
crap.

Here's a clue... eBay isn't a supplier of ANYTHING, except for marketing
services.

Adrian wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:09:35 +0100, Capitol wrote:

If the customer is stupid enough to buy crap, hopefully he will learn
from experience and the supplier will go out of business.

Care to relate this to the unceasing success of - ****, where to start -
assorted well-known retailers of unmitigated ****e and massively over-
priced products and services?

McDonalds, Fosters lager, B&Q etc etc etc.

Incidentally, I believe you buy from ebay! a well known supplier of
crap.

Here's a clue... eBay isn't a supplier of ANYTHING, except for marketing
services.

Have you heard about Comet, Punch taverns, MFI, etc. OK, ebay is a
source of crap products.

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Yes. Far better to allow manufacturers to sell anything they want to
without regulation. After all, they only have the customer's interests at
heart.


It's called a free market. If the customer is stupid enough to buy
crap, hopefully he will learn from experience and the supplier will go
out of business.

Gawd save us from your 'free market' where there are no controls over what
is sold. 'Making a fast buck' is one of the oldest and least desirable of
human failings. One which governments of all colours have been seeking to
control for hundreds of years. From when the first flagon of wine was
watered down.

Incidentally, I believe you buy from ebay! a well known
supplier of crap.

Out of well over 1000 purchases, I've only ever bought crap once. A fake
phone - and I got a full refund immediately. In your 'free market' I'd
have had no comeback. Since it is obviously always buyer beware there.

--
*DOES THE LITTLE MERMAID WEAR AN ALGEBRA?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Capitol wrote:
Incidentally, I believe you buy from ebay! a well known supplier of
crap.

Here's a clue... eBay isn't a supplier of ANYTHING, except for
marketing services.

Have you heard about Comet, Punch taverns, MFI, etc. OK, ebay is a
source of crap products.

If you know the products are crap, why would you buy them?

However, you'll get your money back quickly from Ebay if a product is
faulty. None of the 'we'll send it back to the maker' that many retailers
try it on with.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"RJH" wrote in message ...

On 25/08/2014 13:20, Richard wrote:
"Adrian" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:28:07 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Interestingly, for many years, my mother had a Hoover Constellation.
It
was an original one from when they first came on the market - all
metal
sphere in grey and blue and heavy. That machine had enough power to
lift itself, hovercraft-style, off the floor - including on deep pile
carpet - and float around at the touch of your finger. It would suck
the paint off walls. I don't recall how powerful the motor was on it,
but from the few times that I did work on it putting in new brushes
and
I think once a new armature because the commutator was worn so much
(she used it a lot !) I don't seem to remember it being very big. The
fan unit, on the other hand, I seem to think was. It was not a noisy
machine either. I suppose that was 50 years ago now that she first had
it.

ISTR 600 watts. All that goes to show is many modern machine are
incredibly inefficient. As I said. For whatever reasons. And once
makers
are *forced* to address this they'll find ways round it. If they're not
forced to, why would they bother? To many on here it's not of any
importance.

Except, of course, the problem for those people is not the regulation
per
se - nor even any of the implications or reasons for it. It's pure and
simple the _source_ of the regulation. Given that source, they'll pick
holes in ANYTHING. Black is white. Today is Wednesday.

Can only speak for myself, but I dislike a cesspit of unelected corrupt
scum paid via the funds extorted from hard working people dictating
every aspect of my existence.
YMMV

I'd agree to a point. The 'government' part of the EU appears self-serving.
But that will involve an element of legitimacy, which will include taming
the excesses of some private enterprise. Remarkably efficient for it's own
purposes, in other words.

As to the 'politics', some of the parties have reform as part of their
manifesto, yet turnout (and interest?) is always low.

Where do you cast your vote?

Generally, in a ballot box.
Seriously though, it doesn't matter where. The votes all go into the same
pile of ********s who run everything.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:05:50 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

However, you'll get your money back quickly from Ebay if a product is
faulty. None of the 'we'll send it back to the maker' that many
retailers try it on with.

Too eager, if you've been unfortunate enough to sell something perfectly
good to a dodgy arsehole who lodges a false complaint.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:30:54 +0100, Richard wrote:

Where do you cast your vote?

Generally, in a ballot box.
Seriously though, it doesn't matter where. The votes all go into the
same pile of ********s who run everything.

So put your money where your mouth is, and stand in the next election.

If there's more than a tiny handful of people agree with you, you'll keep
your deposit.
If you genuinely represent the views of a majority, you've got a bloody
good job.

"Adrian" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:30:54 +0100, Richard wrote:

Where do you cast your vote?

Generally, in a ballot box.
Seriously though, it doesn't matter where. The votes all go into the
same pile of ********s who run everything.

So put your money where your mouth is, and stand in the next election.

If there's more than a tiny handful of people agree with you, you'll keep
your deposit.
If you genuinely represent the views of a majority, you've got a bloody
good job.

Take your voicebox out of your arse. Where did I say that I wanted to be a
politician?

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:55:13 +0100, Richard wrote:

Seriously though, it doesn't matter where. The votes all go into the
same pile of ********s who run everything.

So put your money where your mouth is, and stand in the next election.

If there's more than a tiny handful of people agree with you, you'll
keep your deposit.
If you genuinely represent the views of a majority, you've got a bloody
good job.

Take your voicebox out of your arse. Where did I say that I wanted to be
a politician?

shrug If you're whinging that you can do the job better...

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 25/08/14 12:05, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Arfa Daily
wrote:

It's just another case of an EU department getting a bee in its bonnet
for all the wrong reasons, much like taking lead out of solder ...

and causing problems for makers of church organs as a side effect.


How? If we're talking about leaded solder you can still buy it and use
it - just not for consumer electronics[1] or potable plumbing.

[1] Vehicle electronics, military and safety critical systems can still
use leaded.


Whilst it can still be freely bought, It can only be used where there is a
specific exception such as the areas you suggest, and for the repair of
items built prior to the introduction of the ban. New-build pipe organs, as
I understand it, don't qualify for such an exception

Arfa