In message , at 15:39:45 on
Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see what you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would come
up with a solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the vehicles
will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:52:19 -0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 15:39:45 on
Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see what
you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other
than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would
come
up with a solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the vehicles
will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Can't say I've ever had a problem with motorway slip roads. Use the M25
and M11 regularly and used to use the M1 daily.

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and has
now been completely changed.

The most dangerous times I find on motorways are when the non-motorway
users are on them. I rate the M25 much safer in foul conditions than the
M4/M5 on holiday weekends when there always seem to be serious accidents

On 20/02/2012 15:52, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:39:45 on
Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see
what you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other
than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would
come
up with a solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the vehicles
will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

..... someone drives up to an empty roundbout, and stops.

--
Adrian C

tony sayer spake thus:

In article
.com, Neil Williams scribeth thus
On Feb 17, 7:34Â*pm, McKevvy wrote:

Don't take any evasive action. Maintain your speed.

While you are in terms of road traffic law completely in the right, I
would suggest that "defensive driving" would suggest that if they do
that and it is safe for you to do so that you should move to the right
or back off slightly to let them in.

It's all very well there being an accident and it being someone else's
fault, but I would prefer to accommodate the muppets and not have to
deal with the admin or worse of an accident I could have avoided.



I once heard it said: "Don't just drive as if everyone else on the road
is an idiot. Drive as if they are actively out to kill you."

Neil

Sound advice that;!...

Except if you took it literally you would not leave the house at all.

"GB" wrote in message
...


A couple of times, I have ended up on the hard shoulder when the traffic
in the nearside lane refuses to leave a gap, but that's the worst that can
happen.

It is acceptable to use the hard shoulder when joining the motorway if some
muppet has brought the joining traffic to a standstill.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article , £££nearyh
says...

On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 15:49:19 -0000, "MuddyMike"
wrote:


"H. Neary" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:55:56 GMT, wrote:

On 17 Feb,
Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
"Cash" wrote:

Apologies for the sarcasm, but I thought that it was standard practice
to
'read the road ahead' so that such situations can be avoided on what
after all is a straight piece of road at that point.

In which case why aren't these joining clowns doing that?It's their
responsibility after all.

We could do with the public information films back on the TV.

I was forced to pull over to lane 2 by someone joining the M1 on Saturday.
The driver who had to move into lane 3 didn't half carve up the new joiner
when he wanted to move out to overtake the lorry I was following.

What is the current system of signaling on roundabouts? From observations
I
think it must have changed to indicating right to pull off.

1. Join roundabout

2. Signal to leave roundabout

3. Maintain LH signal for the entire journey around the roundabout.
This allows all people hoping to enter the roundabout enough time to
fully appreciate the artistic appeal of your indicators.

I was taught to signal left or right prior to entering a roundabout if you
intended leaving to left or right. No signal on entering if going straight
on. Then signal left as you pass the exit before the one you intend exiting
by. Has this changed?

Maintaining left signal all the way round gives the wrong warning to those
waiting to enter.

On the other hand, so few drivers bother to indicate at all on
roundabouts that I feel I should compliment those who do.

They usually get it wrong, but at least they made the attempt.


--
Sam

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:39:45 -0000, "GB"
wrote:

Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see what you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would come
up with a solution.

What works for me...
Match speeds, indicating all the while, then insert yourself into a
judiciously judged gap that leaves just a touch more than a bumper
between the cars. Keep your fingers crossed there's no emergency
stopping up ahead.
It's what the feckers expect you to do, so do it.
Once you're in, you can joggle the gap to your satisfaction and the
bloke behind will either accomodate or overtake.

On some parts of the m'way network the days of gentlemanly behaviour
have long gone, so one must exhibit matching behaviour to fit in.

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:39:45 +0000, GB wrote:
I just don't see what
you do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph,
other than decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you
experts would come up with a solution.

When it's really busy, occupy the side of the slip road closest to the
traffic, match speed with the traffic, and aim for about 3/4 of a car-
length ahead of where you want to end up - that seems to give people
enough time to realise that you're going to pull in ahead of them no
matter what, and they'll back off enough to create a gap for you to slide
into.

Or... big pointy blades mounted on the wheels, like chariots used to
have? :-)

cheers

Jules

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:28:40 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
Meanwhile, back in the real world...

.... someone drives up to an empty roundbout, and stops.

Must be a Yank.

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at roundabouts,
even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And they don't use
indicators. Ever. And they drive around them the wrong way, which is a
most surreal experience the first time you have to do it. :-)

cheers

Jules

In message , at 16:23:37 on Tue, 21 Feb
2012, Jules Richardson remarked:
When it's really busy, occupy the side of the slip road closest to the
traffic, match speed with the traffic, and aim for about 3/4 of a car-
length ahead of where you want to end up - that seems to give people
enough time to realise that you're going to pull in ahead of them no
matter what, and they'll back off enough to create a gap for you to slide
into.

Some people say you should aim for the most expensive looking car,
because that's the one the driver will least want denting (even if the
dent is your fault and you are paying, it's still a pain for them to get
the car towed away and repaired).
--
Roland Perry

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:28:40 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
Meanwhile, back in the real world...

.... someone drives up to an empty roundbout, and stops.

Must be a Yank.

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at roundabouts,
even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And they don't use
indicators. Ever. And they drive around them the wrong way, which is a
most surreal experience the first time you have to do it. :-)

Maybe it was a yank in the Peugeot that tried to get me on the Carters Green
island on Saturday?

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:30:12 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at roundabouts,
even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And they don't use
indicators. Ever.

That's probably due to the panic of coming across a "traffic circle"
instead of a plain ordinary cross roads with or without lights or the
"4 way stop". A good few years back I came across a roundabout in
Florida, never seen so many signs and instructions on how to use it.
B-)

And they drive around them the wrong way, which is a most surreal
experience the first time you have to do it. :-)

Agreed *very* loud alarm bells sounding off in your head. Mind you
there are several roundabouts in the UK that you go the wrong way
round as well, normal known as "magic roundabouts", I first came a
cross the one in Swindon before I knew they existed. I think it's
fair to say I richoceted out of it rather than negociated it, at
least I didn't find the cul-de-sac. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:41:41 -0000, Dave Liquorice
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:30:12 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at roundabouts,
even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And they don't use
indicators. Ever.

That's probably due to the panic of coming across a "traffic circle"
instead of a plain ordinary cross roads with or without lights or the
"4 way stop". A good few years back I came across a roundabout in
Florida, never seen so many signs and instructions on how to use it.
B-)

And they drive around them the wrong way, which is a most surreal
experience the first time you have to do it. :-)

Agreed *very* loud alarm bells sounding off in your head. Mind you
there are several roundabouts in the UK that you go the wrong way
round as well, normal known as "magic roundabouts", I first came a
cross the one in Swindon before I knew they existed. I think it's
fair to say I richoceted out of it rather than negociated it, at
least I didn't find the cul-de-sac. B-)

There has been one in Hemel Hempstead for 35 years or more. Known as the
Magic Roundabout.
Used to be signed as experimental roundabout except someone had scored out
experi.
Worked reasonable well during the week. More fun on Sundays when visitors
were in the area who were completely bemused as one shot across.
A quick look on Googlemaps suggest better markings than there used to be
but they were getting worn at the time streetview was done.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:41:41 +0000, Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:30:12 +0000 (UTC), Jules Richardson wrote:

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at
roundabouts, even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And
they don't use indicators. Ever.

That's probably due to the panic of coming across a "traffic circle"
instead of a plain ordinary cross roads with or without lights or the "4
way stop". A good few years back I came across a roundabout in Florida,
never seen so many signs and instructions on how to use it. B-)

I've found that the easiest way to deal with them when it's busy is to
accelerate and get through the experience as quickly as possible There
aren't many - the nearest one that I've been on is close on 200 miles
away.

And they drive around them the wrong way, which is a most surreal
experience the first time you have to do it. :-)

Agreed *very* loud alarm bells sounding off in your head. Mind you there
are several roundabouts in the UK that you go the wrong way round as
well, normal known as "magic roundabouts", I first came a cross the one
in Swindon before I knew they existed. I think it's fair to say I
richoceted out of it rather than negociated it, at least I didn't find
the cul-de-sac. B-)

:-) True - I seem to remember one somewhere in the UK... Hemel
Hempstead, possibly... how anyone ever thought that was a good idea, I
don't know.

cheers

Jules

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:53:36 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
Jules Richardson wrote:

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:28:40 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
Meanwhile, back in the real world...

.... someone drives up to an empty roundbout, and stops.

Must be a Yank.

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at
roundabouts, even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And
they don't use indicators. Ever. And they drive around them the wrong
way, which is a most surreal experience the first time you have to do
it. :-)

Well at least they seem to be starting to have them, then. Those 4-way
stops really burn my arse. Well, US stop signs in general do, especially
when they are placed at random unnecessary places.

Yes, they are a bit ridiculous... but I'm not sure what the alternative
is in towns where it's all based on the block system and there's not
really a natural 'main' route (and a mini-roundabout every few hundred
yards would probably be just as disastrous :-)

Quite why they plaster stop signs everywhere in rural areas rather than
using yield signs though, I'm not sure.

cheers

Jules

On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area €”not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.




--
djc

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:28:40 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
Meanwhile, back in the real world...

.... someone drives up to an empty roundbout, and stops.

Must be a Yank.

No, it's the other way around in the US; they don't stop at roundabouts,
even when there are vehicles already occupying them. And they don't use
indicators. Ever. And they drive around them the wrong way, which is a
most surreal experience the first time you have to do it. :-)


I remember the first time I drove in Europe. After a fortnight of
driving on the 'wrong' side of the road and the 'wrong' way round
roundabouts, we returned to the UK.

Leaving Dover, I drove up the A2 to the roundabout at top of the hill.

My wife suddenly screamed "You're going the wrong way round the
roundabout!"

I managed to keep my composure sufficiently to point out that,
fortunately, so was everybody else!

She still gets confused every time we go away but has learnt to keep
quiet about it ...!

The strange thing is, she is very good at pointing out any suggestion of
me attempting to drive on the left while we are away - sometimes,
particularly the first year or two we did it, with justification!

--

Terry

djc wrote:
On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area €”not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.

All Italian slip roads are like that. Most are only half a car wide.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:29:01 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

The strange thing is, she is very good at pointing out any suggestion of
me attempting to drive on the left while we are away - sometimes,
particularly the first year or two we did it, with justification!

A few years ago there was a particularly nasty head-on collision not
too far from me, when a visiting Yank had pulled out of a narrow side
road and adopted his habitual position on the road. You'd think the
fact that he was driving a hire car with the steering wheel on the
correct side for here would have been sufficient reminder, but no. He
paid the price, as did the driver and passengers of the car he
collided with.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 13:23:20 -0000, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 11:29:01 -0000, Terry Casey
wrote:

The strange thing is, she is very good at pointing out any suggestion of
me attempting to drive on the left while we are away - sometimes,
particularly the first year or two we did it, with justification!

A few years ago there was a particularly nasty head-on collision not
too far from me, when a visiting Yank had pulled out of a narrow side
road and adopted his habitual position on the road. You'd think the
fact that he was driving a hire car with the steering wheel on the
correct side for here would have been sufficient reminder, but no. He
paid the price, as did the driver and passengers of the car he
collided with.

Used to get the odd nasty head-on near US bases in Suffolk. When faced
with oncoming lights instinct was to swerve right.

In message , djc
writes
On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area €”not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.




M6 Jn 15 Northbound - and it's on the inside of a left hand curve just
as the road switches from downhill to uphill.
--
hugh

Huge wrote:

That's the conclusion I reached - this is a hateful junction, indeed, a
hateful series of junctions. Especially after I foolishly used the
M6(Toll) to get to Curborough Sprint Track, with my race car on a trailer,
and was charged for 2 cars and a trailer. I've never used the M6(Toll)
again.

They must rub their hands with glee when a laden car transporter
turns up ;-)

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

In message , dave
writes
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:30:10 +0000, hugh ] wrote:

In message , djc
writes
On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area €”not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.




M6 Jn 15 Northbound - and it's on the inside of a left hand curve just
as the road switches from downhill to uphill.

Google Earth this
52°31'48.09" N 1°43'45.23" W
A pathetic piece of motorway design on the M42. The right of the fork
goes to the M6 toll - the left "middle" continues the M42 East and the
extreme LHS goes god know's where. I have lost count of the number of
cars swerving right to left due to this fork in the middle of a
motorway! It is very dangerious. A lage sigbn could be placed at the
actual point of the split but that would make it safer. It looks as if
it has been designed this way to ensure that as many motorists as
possible mistakenly take the right fork and end up having to pay the
toll. Try this at night - better still, at night in the fog.
Yes I agree. Many prats go over to the right hand lane although they
intend to go up the M42, just to try to save a few seconds and in heavy
traffic end up blocking the lane on to the Toll.
--
hugh

In message , Huge
writes
On 2012-02-23, dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:30:10 +0000, hugh ] wrote:

In message , djc
writes
On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area €”not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.




M6 Jn 15 Northbound - and it's on the inside of a left hand curve just
as the road switches from downhill to uphill.

Google Earth this
52°31'48.09" N 1°43'45.23" W
A pathetic piece of motorway design on the M42. The right of the fork
goes to the M6 toll - the left "middle" continues the M42 East and the
extreme LHS goes god know's where. I have lost count of the number of
cars swerving right to left due to this fork in the middle of a
motorway! It is very dangerious. A lage sigbn could be placed at the
actual point of the split but that would make it safer. It looks as if
it has been designed this way to ensure that as many motorists as
possible mistakenly take the right fork and end up having to pay the
toll.

That's the conclusion I reached - this is a hateful junction, indeed, a
hateful series of junctions. Especially after I foolishly used the
M6(Toll) to get to Curborough Sprint Track, with my race car on a trailer,
and was charged for 2 cars and a trailer. I've never used the M6(Toll)
again.

Now that is a rip-off, worthy of Rip-Off Britain
--
hugh

"hugh" ] wrote in message
...
In message , Huge
writes
On 2012-02-23, dave wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:30:10 +0000, hugh ] wrote:

In message , djc
writes
On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the
south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem
and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area -not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.




M6 Jn 15 Northbound - and it's on the inside of a left hand curve just
as the road switches from downhill to uphill.

Google Earth this
52°31'48.09" N 1°43'45.23" W
A pathetic piece of motorway design on the M42. The right of the fork
goes to the M6 toll - the left "middle" continues the M42 East and the
extreme LHS goes god know's where. I have lost count of the number of
cars swerving right to left due to this fork in the middle of a
motorway! It is very dangerious. A lage sigbn could be placed at the
actual point of the split but that would make it safer. It looks as if
it has been designed this way to ensure that as many motorists as
possible mistakenly take the right fork and end up having to pay the
toll.

That's the conclusion I reached - this is a hateful junction, indeed, a
hateful series of junctions. Especially after I foolishly used the
M6(Toll) to get to Curborough Sprint Track, with my race car on a trailer,
and was charged for 2 cars and a trailer. I've never used the M6(Toll)
again.

Now that is a rip-off, worthy of Rip-Off Britain

They were wrong to charge for two cars, it should have been just car and
trailer as indeed they do for a car towing an enclosed box trailer big
enough to contain a car.

Mike

"dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:30:10 +0000, hugh ] wrote:

In message , djc
writes
On 20/02/12 21:31, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:16:56 -0000, Hugh - Was Invisible wrote:

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and
has now been completely changed.

There is a very short slip road, no hard shoulder, on a bend, in a
vertical concrete walled motorway in the center of Leeds. By very
short I mean about 50 yds of Give Way line.

There are several like that on the autostrada through Genova. In one
short space between one tunnel-through-a-mountain and another they not
only cram in a slip road but a service area -not so much a slip road as
a T-junction. I would rather venture round the Paris Périphérique in a
wet winter evening that Genova at any time.




M6 Jn 15 Northbound - and it's on the inside of a left hand curve just
as the road switches from downhill to uphill.

Google Earth this
52°31'48.09" N 1°43'45.23" W
A pathetic piece of motorway design on the M42. The right of the fork
goes to the M6 toll - the left "middle" continues the M42 East and the
extreme LHS goes god know's where. I have lost count of the number of
cars swerving right to left due to this fork in the middle of a
motorway! It is very dangerious. A lage sigbn could be placed at the
actual point of the split but that would make it safer. It looks as if
it has been designed this way to ensure that as many motorists as
possible mistakenly take the right fork and end up having to pay the
toll. Try this at night - better still, at night in the fog.

I have never had a problem with that junction and its common for motorways
to split.
Maybe the drivers should drive at a speed where they can read the signs and
react correctly.
I bet the same drivers claim they are safe enough to speed.

BTW there are at least 9 signs telling you which lane goes where on that
junction!

Gripfill.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
says...

Google Earth this
52°31'48.09" N 1°43'45.23" W
A pathetic piece of motorway design on the M42. The right of the fork
goes to the M6 toll - the left "middle" continues the M42 East and the
extreme LHS goes god know's where.

As is clearly marked in several places - including Google Earth - the
two left hand lanes go to the M42 which, with the left "middle" makes
four lanes for the M42


I have lost count of the number of
cars swerving right to left due to this fork in the middle of a
motorway! It is very dangerious. A lage sigbn could be placed at the
actual point of the split but that would make it safer. It looks as if
it has been designed this way to ensure that as many motorists as
possible mistakenly take the right fork and end up having to pay the
toll. Try this at night - better still, at night in the fog.

I would suggest that you surrender your licence to the DVLA until your
eyesight improves.

You might then be able to see the bloody great blue signs guiding you
onto the left hand lanes well in advance of the junction, thus ensuring
that you are well clear of the other idiots on the road

Apart from lane markings at various points beforehand, there are several
other clear signs well in advance of the junction - such as these:

http://g.co/maps/k3vj5

and

http://g.co/maps/mvfch

I have never driven on this stretch of road but there seems to be plenty
of evidence from the website that you directed us to to suggest that you
haven't a clue ...

--

Terry

"Hugh - Was Invisible" wrote in message
newsp.v9zjiiu8gtk8fg@admin-pc...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:52:19 -0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 15:39:45 on
Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see what
you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other
than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would
come
up with a solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the vehicles
will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Can't say I've ever had a problem with motorway slip roads. Use the M25
and M11 regularly and used to use the M1 daily.

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and has
now been completely changed.

The most dangerous times I find on motorways are when the non-motorway
users are on them. I rate the M25 much safer in foul conditions than the
M4/M5 on holiday weekends when there always seem to be serious accidents


Is that M25 and then M11 northbound? I ask because M25 clockwise to M11
southbound the slip road winds up into one of the most dangerous bends I
have come across and I have driven over most of the motorways, The other
oddly designed one is M40 North to M42 North where the slip road dumps you
into the fast lane. I have seen a few near misses there.
--
Tinkerer

Tinkerer wrote:


"Hugh - Was Invisible" wrote in message
newsp.v9zjiiu8gtk8fg@admin-pc... On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:52:19
-0000, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 15:39:45
on Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just
don't see what you do if the guys in the nearside lane are
nose to tail at 70 mph, other than decelerate gently in the
hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would come up with a
solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the
vehicles will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Can't say I've ever had a problem with motorway slip roads. Use
the M25 and M11 regularly and used to use the M1 daily.

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the
south-west bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a
major problem and has now been completely changed.

The most dangerous times I find on motorways are when the
non-motorway users are on them. I rate the M25 much safer in
foul conditions than the M4/M5 on holiday weekends when there
always seem to be serious accidents


Is that M25 and then M11 northbound? I ask because M25 clockwise
to M11 southbound the slip road winds up into one of the most
dangerous bends I have come across and I have driven over most of
the motorways, The other oddly designed one is M40 North to M42
North where the slip road dumps you into the fast lane. I have
seen a few near misses there.

Junction 15 M6 very short hard right hand bend

"Tinkerer" wrote in message
...
where the slip road dumps you
into the fast lane. I have seen a few near misses there.

That is common around Glasgow


--
http://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/

Terry Casey :
In article ,
says...

Google Earth this
52°31'48.09" N 1°43'45.23" W
A pathetic piece of motorway design on the M42. The right of the fork
goes to the M6 toll - the left "middle" continues the M42 East and the
extreme LHS goes god know's where.

As is clearly marked in several places - including Google Earth - the
two left hand lanes go to the M42 which, with the left "middle" makes
four lanes for the M42


I have lost count of the number of
cars swerving right to left due to this fork in the middle of a
motorway! It is very dangerious. A lage sigbn could be placed at the
actual point of the split but that would make it safer. It looks as if
it has been designed this way to ensure that as many motorists as
possible mistakenly take the right fork and end up having to pay the
toll. Try this at night - better still, at night in the fog.

I would suggest that you surrender your licence to the DVLA until your
eyesight improves.

You might then be able to see the bloody great blue signs guiding you
onto the left hand lanes well in advance of the junction, thus ensuring
that you are well clear of the other idiots on the road

Apart from lane markings at various points beforehand, there are several
other clear signs well in advance of the junction - such as these:

http://g.co/maps/k3vj5

and

http://g.co/maps/mvfch

I have never driven on this stretch of road but there seems to be plenty
of evidence from the website that you directed us to to suggest that you
haven't a clue ...

I *have* driven this stretch of road on many occasions and I have
sympathy with both points of view. What's missing from this analysis is
the fact that when the road's busy you have to devote 90% of your
attention to getting out of the way of all the kamikaze lane-switchers
jostling for position. That leaves just 10%, when sod's law says there's
no informative sign visible.

I usually take the left lane to god-knows-where. It splits off from the
other lanes and then rejoins, then splits off again. Experienced locals
know this and cut in during the very short rejoined section.

--
Mike Barnes

steve robinson wrote:

Junction 15 M6 very short hard right hand bend
?
The northbound off slip is short, and goes into a sharpish bend, but
isn't a problem if you know about it, the nortbound on slip has almost a
circle, but quite a long acceleration lane. Southbound off slip is
short, but slopes up to the traffic lights so you don't need to brake
harshly. The southbound on slip is fairly long, with a reasonable
acceleration lane, and I very rarely have problems joining or leaving at
that junction, even driving a coach, unless there's a train of lorries
coming south along the M6 at their normally preferred separation of
about half a coach length.

I can enter all off slips on this junction at the legal maximum and slow
comfortably to a safe speed.

Can I nominate the Coventry inner ring road as the most dangerously
designed road in Europe? Junctions every few hundred yards, with the
onbound slips merging into the offbound slips, with vehicles trying to
join and leave the ring road using the same few yards of junction.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Tim Streater wrote:

In article ,
Chris J Dixon wrote:

Terry Casey wrote:

I would suggest that you surrender your licence to the DVLA until your
eyesight improves.

You might then be able to see the bloody great blue signs guiding you
onto the left hand lanes well in advance of the junction, thus ensuring
that you are well clear of the other idiots on the road

Apart from lane markings at various points beforehand, there are several
other clear signs well in advance of the junction - such as these:

http://g.co/maps/k3vj5

and

http://g.co/maps/mvfch

I have never driven on this stretch of road but there seems to be plenty
of evidence from the website that you directed us to to suggest that you
haven't a clue ...

Those signs are certainly much better than one of the ones at the
bottom of the M69.

The original sign here
http://g.co/maps/r9k3c
looks just like any other junction where you pull into a slip
road at the junction. However, it is actually a lane drop for the
M6. The next gantry is no better
http://g.co/maps/67ehu
but immediately past it, the lane markings change
http://g.co/maps/7q4gb

Isn't that a clue that the left lane is for the M6? That's what all the
signs were saying.

Absolutely not.

Until you reach the junction, the only gantry sign meeting
current guidance is the very first, which is a recent addition
http://g.co/maps/brcey

The distinction is between lane drop and non lane drop, as shown
in the manual
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publication...chapter-07.pdf
on page 85

Motorways follow the same rules, as described on page 93

Gantry signs are similar to those in figure 9-1, except that
the downward pointing arrows and horizontal bars are
omitted from the lane drop signs... The arrows on these
signs are placed on blue patches located below the
main sign assembly.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:23:44 -0000, "MuddyMike"
wrote:

That's the conclusion I reached - this is a hateful junction, indeed, a
hateful series of junctions. Especially after I foolishly used the
M6(Toll) to get to Curborough Sprint Track, with my race car on a trailer,
and was charged for 2 cars and a trailer. I've never used the M6(Toll)
again.

Now that is a rip-off, worthy of Rip-Off Britain

They were wrong to charge for two cars, it should have been just car and
trailer as indeed they do for a car towing an enclosed box trailer big
enough to contain a car.

Crossing the Severn Bridge, towing a car on an A-frame, I was just
charged for a Transit + trailer. Same for Irish Ferries - result.

In message , Tinkerer
writes

"Hugh - Was Invisible" wrote in message
newsp.v9zjiiu8gtk8fg@admin-pc...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:52:19 -0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 15:39:45 on
Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see what
you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other
than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would
come
up with a solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the vehicles
will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Can't say I've ever had a problem with motorway slip roads. Use the M25
and M11 regularly and used to use the M1 daily.

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and has
now been completely changed.

The most dangerous times I find on motorways are when the non-motorway
users are on them. I rate the M25 much safer in foul conditions than the
M4/M5 on holiday weekends when there always seem to be serious accidents


Is that M25 and then M11 northbound? I ask because M25 clockwise to M11
southbound the slip road winds up into one of the most dangerous bends I
have come across and I have driven over most of the motorways, The other
oddly designed one is M40 North to M42 North where the slip road dumps you
into the fast lane. I have seen a few near misses there.

But the lanes don't 'join' - certainly not in the way a sliproad joins
the main carriageway. Where they merge, both motorways are two lanes,
and the ongoing M42N becomes four. Any accident would only be caused by
someone playing sillybuggers, and deliberately changing lane where it
was obvious that they shouldn't.

In Google Earth, fly to:
52°21'5.42"N, 1°48'27.20"W
(just copy and paste).

In the mid 2000s, I used to drive that route most days for about five
years, at around 8:30am. I can't recall any undue problems because of
the way the motorways merged.
--
Ian

On Feb 17, 7:26*pm, Ronald Tompkins wrote:
Driving in lane 1 of a motorway at a steady speed with large gaps in front
and behind me, I find it difficult to understand why some drivers
approaching the motorway on a slip road draw level with me instead of
accelerating or decelerating slightly to pull into the gaps. *Several times
recently I have had to take evasive action when another driver tries to join
in this manner.

I rejoined the M1 southbound from Toddington services yesterday;
there are roadworks, so all the traffic was moving at 50 mph and the
slip road is temporarily shortened, 50 to 80 yards.

So I indicated, accelerated to 50ish ( same speed as all the
traffic) next to a (large) gap, about to move right. Then the knob in
the Merc accelerated hard in order to block the gap, and slammed his
brakes on when he got to withing a gnat's of the bumper of the car in
front.

There are just too many ******* on the UK's roads.

In article ,
says...

"Hugh - Was Invisible" wrote in message
newsp.v9zjiiu8gtk8fg@admin-pc...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 15:52:19 -0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 15:39:45 on
Mon, 20 Feb 2012, GB remarked:
Actually, I was talking about my own experiences. I just don't see what
you
do if the guys in the nearside lane are nose to tail at 70 mph, other
than
decelerate gently in the hard shoulder. I wish that you experts would
come
up with a solution.

The experts will say that at 70mph in the nearside lane, the vehicles
will be further apart than the length of your vehicle.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

Can't say I've ever had a problem with motorway slip roads. Use the M25
and M11 regularly and used to use the M1 daily.

There used to be a very short and dangerous slip on to the south-west
bound A12 from Witham south. It was recognised as a major problem and has
now been completely changed.

The most dangerous times I find on motorways are when the non-motorway
users are on them. I rate the M25 much safer in foul conditions than the
M4/M5 on holiday weekends when there always seem to be serious accidents


Is that M25 and then M11 northbound? I ask because M25 clockwise to M11
southbound the slip road winds up into one of the most dangerous bends I
have come across


I don't think they put up all those 30 mph signs for fun ...!

The slip road in question is on the left he

http://g.co/maps/dbk43

at the bottom of a steepish gradient and a sharp right hand turn where
the crash barrier suddenly stops:

http://g.co/maps/5faup

at just the point where anybody who looses control will go flying off to
the left into traffic on the adjacent slip road with nothing but the odd
traffic cone for protection ...

http://g.co/maps/95mz2

This dangerous state of affairs seems to have been deliberately created
so that the Police can do a U turn onto the anti-clockwise carriageway
of the M25 ...

If you zoom out of the first link, you can see three more of these slip
road gaps, though not quite as dangerously sited.

By removing the cones - which serve no useful purpose, anyway - the plod
could drive round in circles all day, if they were so inclined ...


--

Terry

In article ,
says...

Can I nominate the Coventry inner ring road as the most dangerously
designed road in Europe? Junctions every few hundred yards, with the
onbound slips merging into the offbound slips, with vehicles trying to
join and leave the ring road using the same few yards of junction.


Sorry! That prize goes to the Charleroi ring road!

http://g.co/maps/3ncsc

It is one-way (anti-clockwise)- mostly four lane - with off slips on
both left and right ...

When busy it resembles a fairground dodgem ride with vehicles randomly
changing lanes all around you!

Part of the north-eastern quadrant is in tunnel. Emerging he

http://g.co/maps/3n8az

and swinging round to the left - straight into the late afternoon
sunlight - can be quite an experience!

--

Terry