In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The Tesco fully synthetic is made by Chevron, so a good buy and easily
available.

Don't go by maker name or anything else. Check the spec on the container
and make sure it meets/exceeds the requirement for your engine.

Even something like Mobil 1 means not a lot as there have been various
versions over the years - and you'll often find 'special offers' which are
in fact an obsolete spec. Same with all the other brand names. In
Halfords, you'll sometimes find the same brand - like say Magnatec - with
the same viscosity but different spec on the same shelf at the same price.

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:03:53 -0800 (PST)
"js.b1" wrote:

On Dec 6, 5:34Â*pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
One automotive engineer, not mechanic, said the best thing is use
the likes of Mobil 1 oil and a high quality oil filter that grabs
particals of smaller

snip

Well worth checking the various car forums for the "known faults &
problem areas"; can save a fair amount re contingency, pre-emptive &
avoidance.

I most definitely agree with that last statement. I bought a used
Renault, and the Renault Forum is a great source of help and advice
that you don't get from a manual, from folks who have already 'been
there and done that'.
--
Davey.

On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 09:45:43 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

Today's cars are less tolerant of under-pessure cooling systems

Possibly

and
are reliant on anti-freeze to aid thermal transfer both in the engine
and radiator.

Wrong. Antifreeze has a lower specific heat capacity than water.

Annual coolant pressure and coolant checks should be
peformed as a matter of course.

Pressure caps rarely fail. Corrosion inhibitors last for many years. A
check every two or three years is enough.

Cambelt(s) should be checked as a
matter of course (unless one is to adopt automatic replacement at 8
years/100,000miles)

Checked for what? If the mileage / age is within limits and it was
fitted right in the first place then they very rarely fail.

and it's probably also a good time to check oil
pressure.

Filtered oil doesn't wear pumps. Even totally knackered oil barely
wears pumps, ****ing about checking the oil pressure is an invasive
procedure that rarely proves anything.

Starter syatem checks should also be performed as a matter
of course.

It cranks and starts in a couple of seconds. The battery voltage is
normal.

End of test


Other systems/parts are generally mileage dependant or
should be noticed and rectified by the driver as and when faults
appear. Headlight bulb efficiency is possibly another check not fully
covered in MOT testing which possibly should be included in an annual
service. I think you are lucky to get good brightness levels much
after 1000 hours of use.

1000 hours at 30mph is 30000 miles, or somewhere around three years
average mileage. I can't recall ever changing a lamp for poor
brightness. I've had headlamp housings that filled with water and the
lamps were still good to use after they had been dried out and cleaned
in some meths.

Iron/copper electrode spark plugs still benefit from dressing every
3000 miles.

Nice sharp edges give a better spark than ones rounded off by wire
brushing or sand blasting. 50,000 miles was possible with very little
deterioration in performance 30 years ago, now it's normal. Removing
spark plugs every 3000 miles risks thread damage to the head too.

and the distributer rotor is still a better system than
double ended coils or split tension systems.

For something tinked with and occasionally driven on a weekend in
summer, or after a nuclear strike then it is usable. For all other
practical purposes distributors are crap. If they were so good then
piston engined aircraft would use them. They don't.

Unfortunately the rotor
and cap do need attention each year due to erosion and corrosion and
probable replacement at three years or 20,000 miles. It still gives a
bigger bang

Bigger bang, wtf does that mean? You get significantly higher energy
in the spark from modern ignition systems.


--

On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 00:48:07 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
Iron/copper electrode spark plugs still benefit from dressing every
3000 miles and the distributer rotor is still a better system than
double ended coils or split tension systems. Unfortunately the rotor
and cap do need attention each year due to erosion and corrosion and
probable replacement at three years or 20,000 miles. It still gives a
bigger bang, and that's what counts when doing your own servicing.
It's an insignificant expense countered by improved engine efficiency
and the high price of fuel.

What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?

most do. Or many do. No contacts but still one 25kv coil feeding one of
four (6 or 8) plugs..via a rotating rotor arm. there may also be a
sensor there to monitor crank position. But thats more generally on the
camshaft

Are you sure you are in 2011 and not in some time warp 20 years in the
past?

I'd love to know which manufacturers are stil sticking to a
distributor rather than coil on plug/double ended coils and a crank /
cam trigger.


--

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I'm not convinced it does. Most engines outlast the car anyway these
days - unless they suffer a failure like a broken cambelt or cooling
system, neither of which will be prevented by frequent oil changes.

Er no.
They can still end up with worn bores and buggered bearings and burn oil
and then put a rod through the block.
Please name and shame so we know to avoid those makes.

Any car will do that if you abuse it with no oil and no filter cahnges
drive it hard and let it go past a point of no return

Err, I wasn't suggesting neglecting routine servicing. Just querying the
oft stated view that you need to change engine oil more often than the
maker says.

It wasn't clear that was what you were doing to me, sorry.

And why just engine oil? Surely if there is some conspiracy to make
engines fail early even when serviced by the book, it would also apply to
every other part of the car which uses a lubricant?

There is no conspiracy beyond cheapness.

The Germans and then the Japs started the ball rolling when they
installed really good automatic lathes and grinders to polish and shape
parts to exact tolerances, and then when they also used top grade
materials, their engines started to last, and British ones did not.

End of British mass car industry. People didn't like all that servicing.

Add in EFI and electronic ignition and another source of wear problems
and potential engine damage went..engines get better BUT they are
always the weak inside and the primary bearings take massive side loads
as well.

So whilst a differential these days barring corrosion damage to oil
seals, is almost oil sealed for life, the engine still isn't.

Bit of carbon and metal dust will accumulate in the oil: The filter is
supposed to take out the worst.. but wear still is happening...

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?

most do. Or many do. No contacts but still one 25kv coil feeding one of
four (6 or 8) plugs..via a rotating rotor arm. there may also be a
sensor there to monitor crank position. But thats more generally on the
camshaft

Are you sure you are in 2011 and not in some time warp 20 years in the
past?

I'd love to know which manufacturers are stil sticking to a
distributor rather than coil on plug/double ended coils and a crank /
cam trigger.

Indeed.

And those who yearn after distributors have a very short memory.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans and then the Japs started the ball rolling when they
installed really good automatic lathes and grinders to polish and shape
parts to exact tolerances, and then when they also used top grade
materials, their engines started to last, and British ones did not.

Too much of a generalization.

--
*If you don't pay your exorcist you get repossessed.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?


A reliable one.

Total bollox. A distributor is the spawn of satan. The most troublesome
part of car electrics. Just why do you think it has been abolished?

It hasn't been abolished.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?

most do. Or many do. No contacts but still one 25kv coil feeding one of
four (6 or 8) plugs..via a rotating rotor arm. there may also be a
sensor there to monitor crank position. But thats more generally on the
camshaft

As is the distributor itself sometimes. Depends really on packaging.

I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor. If one exists,
avoid it. As it has an ancient engine design best left for the science
museum.

All of them. Without a distributor you need at least one coil per
sparkplug, unless you want to take the risk of firing all the plugs all
the time and the possibility of a misfire ..

Additionally you need to tell te EFI and ignition system which part of e
4 stroke cycle you are ion to time the sparks and injectors correctly.
This means a divide-by-tow rotor and a sensor of some sort..since
camshaft is already needed to control the valves, is normal to tack the
distributor onto that and use it to do the two things it still needs to do
- distribute the spark to the right plug
and
- provide timing information for the injectors and the ignition.

So a modern distributor does less, - its doesn't have a mechanical spark
generator in it and it doesn't have centrifugal advance/retard and
vacuum advance on it - that's all done electronically, but it still
shuffles the spark around and provides a convenient place to put a
camshaft sensor.

Look in most petrol cars today, with an OHC and you will see a 5 wire
lump 4 a 4cyl engine) stuck on the end of the camshaft, and probably a
sixth small wire there as well that's the sensor. four wires go top the
lugs, and the fifth goes to a coil or coil pack, which is usually bolted
somewhere else

even if the car has one coil per plug, it STILL needs a way to selct
those..and the camshaft sensor is still needed.

That's as little of the distributor as you can get away with. Arguably
at some point its not a distributor any more - but that is when it stops
distributing the sparks and that means an expensive multi-coil ingnition
system that is not found much on cheaper cars.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans and then the Japs started the ball rolling when they
installed really good automatic lathes and grinders to polish and shape
parts to exact tolerances, and then when they also used top grade
materials, their engines started to last, and British ones did not.

Too much of a generalization.

I was there.

VW 10k service interval

BL 3k service interval

Toyota 9K service interval.

Which one isn't there any more?

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Total bollox. A distributor is the spawn of satan. The most troublesome
part of car electrics. Just why do you think it has been abolished?

It hasn't been abolished.

I keep asking for an example of a recent design that uses a dizzy. And a
Morris Minor doesn't qualify. ;-)

--
*Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor. If one
exists, avoid it. As it has an ancient engine design best left for the
science museum.

All of them. Without a distributor you need at least one coil per
sparkplug, unless you want to take the risk of firing all the plugs all
the time and the possibility of a misfire ..

Never heard of wasted spark? One coil for a pair of cylinders and only the
crank position needed.

Additionally you need to tell te EFI and ignition system which part of e
4 stroke cycle you are ion to time the sparks and injectors correctly.
This means a divide-by-tow rotor and a sensor of some sort..since
camshaft is already needed to control the valves, is normal to tack the
distributor onto that and use it to do the two things it still needs to
do - distribute the spark to the right plug
and
- provide timing information for the injectors and the ignition.

Err, going back to the days of injection and dizzies, injection was
indirect, and injectors fired as a batch. Not sequential. And just when
they opened not particularly critical - just the time they were open for.

So a modern distributor does less, - its doesn't have a mechanical spark
generator in it and it doesn't have centrifugal advance/retard and
vacuum advance on it - that's all done electronically, but it still
shuffles the spark around and provides a convenient place to put a
camshaft sensor.

Why would you go to the effort of providing an accurate map via
electronics but use a trigger which is all over the place - jitter from a
cam drive and belts or chains which stretch?

Look in most petrol cars today, with an OHC and you will see a 5 wire
lump 4 a 4cyl engine) stuck on the end of the camshaft, and probably a
sixth small wire there as well that's the sensor. four wires go top the
lugs, and the fifth goes to a coil or coil pack, which is usually bolted
somewhere else

Really? I keep on asking - what make is this? What you're describing was
on a Maestro...

even if the car has one coil per plug, it STILL needs a way to selct
those..and the camshaft sensor is still needed.

Wasted spark. Again. But given how common variable valve timing is, a cam
position sensor is common too. So that gives the cylinder which is firing.


That's as little of the distributor as you can get away with. Arguably
at some point its not a distributor any more - but that is when it stops
distributing the sparks and that means an expensive multi-coil ingnition
system that is not found much on cheaper cars.

Are they still making Lada?

--
*Forget about World Peace...Visualize using your turn signal.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans and then the Japs started the ball rolling when they
installed really good automatic lathes and grinders to polish and shape
parts to exact tolerances, and then when they also used top grade
materials, their engines started to last, and British ones did not.

Too much of a generalization.

I was there.

VW 10k service interval

BL 3k service interval

Toyota 9K service interval.

Which one isn't there any more?

No BL car I know of had a 3000 mile service interval. Can you state which
one?

But neither the Japs or Germans 'started the ball rolling' with accuracy
in engine making. Possibly at the cheaper end. But that's not what you
said.

--
*Geeks shall inherit the earth *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans and then the Japs started the ball rolling when they
installed really good automatic lathes and grinders to polish and shape
parts to exact tolerances, and then when they also used top grade
materials, their engines started to last, and British ones did not.
Too much of a generalization.

I was there.

VW 10k service interval

BL 3k service interval

Toyota 9K service interval.

Which one isn't there any more?

No BL car I know of had a 3000 mile service interval. Can you state which
one?


All of my midgets had 3000 mile oil changes,

But neither the Japs or Germans 'started the ball rolling' with accuracy
in engine making. Possibly at the cheaper end. But that's not what you
said.

On Dec 7, 11:51*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Err, I wasn't suggesting neglecting routine servicing. Just querying the
oft stated view that you need to change engine oil more often than the
maker says.

Most things about car engines are designed for a certain acceptable %
of failures, given that 0 is pretty much unachievable (even with
costly aircraft engines, which is why you tend to have at least two of
them!) For instance, a lot of people change cambelts early because
that will reduce the percentage chance of an early failure.

I'm not sure to what extent that applies to oil changes, though. I've
always done them pretty much according to manufacturer's
recommendations (though sometimes a month or so late) and it has never
caused me issues. I suppose it *could* reduce the car's life by a few
months or a few thousand miles if you do it a bit late, but I don't
tend to keep cars that long anyway.

But if you don't change the oil at all, over time it will lose its
lubricating properties and gain water and other impurities and so
friction and corrosion within the engine will increase.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
On Dec 7, 11:51 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Err, I wasn't suggesting neglecting routine servicing. Just querying the
oft stated view that you need to change engine oil more often than the
maker says.

Most things about car engines are designed for a certain acceptable %
of failures, given that 0 is pretty much unachievable (even with
costly aircraft engines, which is why you tend to have at least two of
them!) For instance, a lot of people change cambelts early because
that will reduce the percentage chance of an early failure.

I'm not sure to what extent that applies to oil changes, though. I've
always done them pretty much according to manufacturer's
recommendations (though sometimes a month or so late) and it has never
caused me issues. I suppose it *could* reduce the car's life by a few
months or a few thousand miles if you do it a bit late, but I don't
tend to keep cars that long anyway.

But if you don't change the oil at all, over time it will lose its
lubricating properties and gain water and other impurities and so
friction and corrosion within the engine will increase.

Neil
Its the key thing really..what does the car die of? usually the body
corrosion in a normal sort of usage pattern. No point in making he
engine good for half a million miles if the body has long gone

BUT I am fairly sure that commercial diesel engines in big trucks are up
for quarter of a million miles, at least.

lower RPM and more conservative ratings and better servicing....

On Dec 6, 7:07*pm, thirty-six wrote:
It was a few years ago, but I did get a good semi-synthetic from
Vavolene. *It was certainly better than the later Comma semi-
synthetic. *Currently using Halfords synthetic (bought in advance when
on offer) but not overly impressed with its cold viscocity grading.
Seems rather heavy on warm-up.

Some engines do seem fussy.
Hydraulic lifters seem to have their "acoustic preference".

Oil pickup screen clogging has not gone away.
Recent diesel suffer high coke loading on the oil, that coke will
accumulate on the screen over time and if it does the end result is
usually first turbo failure (oil in intercooler) and then second main
bearing failure. There is little warning and buying used with such
costly parts needs due diligence (ie, lease where possible).


The Italian made basic filters P******* (I forgot) are supposedly

Purolator I suspect.
I think OEM is safest, unless known otherwise.


I must check for this. *Vehicle's over 10 years and has repaired front
nearside three years ago, so ripe for rusting, I know manufacturers
repair standards were not adhered to.

Sadly they rarely are; they tend to bond panels that should not be
bonded; skimp on spot weld count; aftermarket panels are routinely
used with dubious corrosion protection; critical drain holes may be
neglected or oversprayed with underseal; seals are re-used.

For a front nearside, if that includes anything behind wheel arch
trays examine carefully. If a car lacks them the outer wing skin rots
off in no time, if the car has them the inner upper "apron" tends to
vanish (it is non structural and just carries wiring harnesses, hoses,
but can track rust into the frame), if the car has them and they do
not seal properly the first you know is when a hole appears in the
engine compartment. Water can get behind the the trays, but not air -
so they never dry out.

Personally I think corrosion protection has gone to the dogs, which
combined with thinner/thicker steels means the thin steels get used in
the less structural areas but where corrosion is more likely. This is
a recipe for disaster and why many modern cars may actually be
unrepairable (unrestorable!) past a certain point compared to those
previous.

On Dec 6, 8:30*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
I've not seen one snap at 40k, but had two (both vauxhall) go at the
sort of 70k mark.

A few Volvo used to have a zero tolerance policy linked to the
odometer, if you went as little as 200 miles over you got bitten by a
very large bill re interference engine.

On some engines if you bend valves you also damage bearings, if they
are not replaced they fail some time later. Relative who believes cars
are "self maintaining" did the valves, got a backstreet place to do it
to save £120 (!) and in the words of alfa romeo UK "if the bearings
are not replaced we guarantee the engine will fail within 12,000
miles". They were right. It did. Spectacularly on a motorway.

No wonder they want electric cars... computer controlled accident
avoidance... programmers saying "now why did it do that...".

In article
,
Neil Williams wrote:
On Dec 7, 11:51 am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Err, I wasn't suggesting neglecting routine servicing. Just querying the
oft stated view that you need to change engine oil more often than the
maker says.

Most things about car engines are designed for a certain acceptable %
of failures, given that 0 is pretty much unachievable (even with
costly aircraft engines, which is why you tend to have at least two of
them!) For instance, a lot of people change cambelts early because
that will reduce the percentage chance of an early failure.

I'm not sure to what extent that applies to oil changes, though. I've
always done them pretty much according to manufacturer's
recommendations (though sometimes a month or so late) and it has never
caused me issues. I suppose it *could* reduce the car's life by a few
months or a few thousand miles if you do it a bit late, but I don't
tend to keep cars that long anyway.

That tends to be the case. Those who advocate halving the oil change
mileage could only benefit if they bought the car new and ran it into the
ground. And just how many do? And with good quality oil costing perhaps 12
quid a litre it's a significant extra cost.

But if you don't change the oil at all, over time it will lose its
lubricating properties and gain water and other impurities and so
friction and corrosion within the engine will increase.

Oh, indeed. I take the view the makers know best, so stick to their
service recommendations.

--
*Women like silent men; they think they're listening.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?

most do. Or many do. No contacts but still one 25kv coil feeding one of
four (6 or 8) plugs..via a rotating rotor arm. there may also be a
sensor there to monitor crank position. But thats more generally on the
camshaft

As is the distributor itself sometimes. Depends really on packaging.

I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor.

Most of the cars on the road aren't that new.

In article ,
Alan Braggins wrote:
I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor.

Most of the cars on the road aren't that new.

My 20 year old BMW had dispensed with the distributor. Not the first make
to do so either.

So I'll try again - name one car made this century with a dizzy?

--
*A 'jiffy' is an actual unit of time for 1/100th of a second.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Dec 7, 10:55*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"js.b1" wrote in message
Actually since about 2004 Mobil 1 is no longer a true fully synthetic.

So there is no difference between Magnatec and Mobil 1?

Yes, but they are both "synthetic and not synthetic" :-)

Does Magnatec actual stick to the
metal bearings because of magnetism?

It is polar attraction.

What I do not like about Magnatec is 1) its ash figures 2) its ability
to completely **** off hydraulic lifters that are otherwise silent 3)
its tendency to gloop out of the pan which I found disturbing.

The problem at startup is how quick you can get pressure to the
bearings, before then you rely on the additive package. Synthetic
flows better at low temps (and in Canada some engines go bang with
poor oil, others have a temp sensor which will restrict max rpm).

What has milage to do with it?

Low annual mileage is often lots of short trips.
Lots of short trips means the engine spends most of its time running
in O2 sensor open loop mode, rather than closed loop. That is because
the ECU is dumping more fuel in to 1) get the engine warmed up and 2)
get the cat up to temperature. This tends to increase fuel dilution of
oil, fuel washing of cylinders, increase water concentration in oil
since it does not get hot enough (coolant gets hot fast, oil takes way
longer hence coolant-to-oil heat exchangers above oil filters which
use the hot coolant to heat the oil during warmup & vice-versa when
the engine is hot).

Low mileage short trips are considered "adverse duty", there used to
be two oil change specs in the manual - one for long distance driving
and a much shorter one (50%) for adverse duty. So a 9,000 mile oil
change interval could be 4,500 miles in stop-start winter driving
where the engine never warms up.

The classic killer of old engines used to be sludge - lots of short
trips such as 5-7 miles to work. With longer commutes this problem has
reduced, but it can kill modern diesels with diesel particulate
filters. They fail to regenerate sufficiently, the oil cokes up, and
suddenly the oil pickup screen is stuffed, turbo or rod goes and the
bonkers expensive engine is toast.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Alan Braggins wrote:
I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor.

Most of the cars on the road aren't that new.

My 20 year old BMW had dispensed with the distributor. Not the first make
to do so either.

So I'll try again - name one car made this century with a dizzy?

dunno how new this is, but this definetely has four HT leads coming
from SOMETHING

http://www.free-extras.com/images/fo...ngine-6210.htm

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So I'll try again - name one car made this century with a dizzy?

dunno how new this is, but this definetely has four HT leads coming from
SOMETHING

http://www.free-extras.com/images/fo...ngine-6210.htm

Just a coilpack I think, seems it has the 4 plug leads, a 3 wire control
connection but no mechanical input, base seems potted in resin.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2Y9qdVsDPA4EK4-yHgQf4r2M6xve_5dBpb2TOSrihKm6j9VSrlQ

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrL6ysu1hDfyvHaGgKENHV3R3UhU43Q o-Ru_E9_rGH8qeoChnEaw


Scroll through other images if those links fail ....

http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=...ocus+coil+pack

Andy Burns wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So I'll try again - name one car made this century with a dizzy?

dunno how new this is, but this definetely has four HT leads coming from
SOMETHING

http://www.free-extras.com/images/fo...ngine-6210.htm

Just a coilpack I think, seems it has the 4 plug leads, a 3 wire control
connection but no mechanical input, base seems potted in resin.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2Y9qdVsDPA4EK4-yHgQf4r2M6xve_5dBpb2TOSrihKm6j9VSrlQ


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTrL6ysu1hDfyvHaGgKENHV3R3UhU43Q o-Ru_E9_rGH8qeoChnEaw



Scroll through other images if those links fail ....

http://google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=...ocus+coil+pack

I haven't bought a new petrol car since the turn of the century so maybe
they are all multiple pack stuff. i've got a 199 somethng pegeout CAMPER
(boxer)that has a distributor..think that's the most modern petrol
vehicle I have worked on..

On Dec 7, 5:02*pm, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
BUT I am fairly sure that commercial diesel engines in big trucks are up
for quarter of a million miles, at least.

They do, plus oil analysis.
Of course, they need to, since margins in haulage are as wide as a
hair - for cost & competitive reasons.

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would change the filter and drain teh oil about every 10k miles. It is
not a big job.

Failure to do that will limit engine life to about 80K miles max instead
of the 200K most engines will do if not abused.

Which century are you living in?!? The era of cars needing a new engine
at 100k are long, long gone. Anything built in the last 20 years will do
200k on average maintenance. That there aren't many about is that they
become worthless and chucked in for a change or aren't economic to keep
on the road for the usual reasons.


Note to buyers:
Beware the 2 year old car with 120k on the clock: Or the one year old
with 60K..Its a reps car and many companies simply never service them at
all from new till resale. It may look shiny, but it probably never had a
pad change or an oil change in its life.

Bought my 320d at 127k 3.5yrs old. Stamped service book and copy of
maintenance done kept by the finance company. Done 40k and still 000s
off the next service (20k interval) and the reciprocating parts are at
the bottom of the list as far as things I reckon will need attention!

In similar vein, anyone remember the bloke who posted (prob on
uk.rec.cars.*) about the 2 Astra vans he ran side by side to 100k. One
serviced by the book, the other just keeping the oil topped up. At 100k
the "abused" one was the better car.

Scott

On 05/12/11 22:25, Huge wrote:

I am sure my 54 reg van has the oil change at around 30000 miles.

Bloody hell - did you hit the zero too many times?

Some VAG TDIs will do "up to" 30k/2yrs on variable.

On 06/12/11 23:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
The Natural wrote:
I'm not convinced it does. Most engines outlast the car anyway these
days - unless they suffer a failure like a broken cambelt or cooling
system, neither of which will be prevented by frequent oil changes.

Er no.

They can still end up with worn bores and buggered bearings and burn oil
and then put a rod through the block.

Please name and shame so we know to avoid those makes.

It's a few years ago, but a works Astramax (official chnage interval
4.5k miles IIRC) seized it's cam and broke badly on me after about 50k
IIRC of hard driving with only a couple of changes.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 20:30:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

There are a lot of cars out there that require cam belt replacement at
60,000 or even 40.000 miles so every 100,000 isn't a good idea.


My ****eOldToyota is a 60K/5yr interval.



Most belts do 60-80k

I've not seen one snap at 40k, but had two (both vauxhall) go at the
sort of 70k mark.

The 1.8 Escrote diesel cambelt was notorious for letting go at 60K,
almost exactly. This was despite Ford specifiying a replacement life
of 100K. Iirc, the revised mileage was 40K, to be on the safe side.
Hardly surprising, as the belt took so many twists and turns it had a
really hard life. I suspect Ford based their estimations on the test
lumps which obviously weren't put through the 24/7/365 duty cycles of
courier vans. Mind you, Ford's previous cambelts were almost unknown
for snapping, but they were simple runs for the belts.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The Germans and then the Japs started the ball rolling when they
installed really good automatic lathes and grinders to polish and
shape
parts to exact tolerances, and then when they also used top grade
materials, their engines started to last, and British ones did not.

Too much of a generalization.

I was there.

VW 10k service interval

BL 3k service interval

Toyota 9K service interval.

Which one isn't there any more?

No BL car I know of had a 3000 mile service interval. Can you state which
one?

But neither the Japs or Germans 'started the ball rolling' with accuracy
in engine making. Possibly at the cheaper end. But that's not what you
said.

It wasn't the accuracy of the engine that killed British cars off, it was
price.
they were too expensive due to a lack of productivity caused by unions with
too much power.
They still try to Fop industry now.
If a factory owner spends money on new machines the unions claim increased
productivity and demand more wages even though the work is easier.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?


A reliable one.

Total bollox. A distributor is the spawn of satan. The most troublesome
part of car electrics. Just why do you think it has been abolished?

My car has four HT coils and no moving parts in the ignition.
I don't know if it only has one primary coil.
It doesn't really matter if you get additional sparks on the exhaust stroke.

dennis@home wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?


A reliable one.

Total bollox. A distributor is the spawn of satan. The most
troublesome part of car electrics. Just why do you think it has been
abolished?

My car has four HT coils and no moving parts in the ignition.
I don't know if it only has one primary coil.
It doesn't really matter if you get additional sparks on the exhaust
stroke.

I thought you had a diesel car?
--
Adam

* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


So a modern distributor does less, - its doesn't have a mechanical spark
generator in it and it doesn't have centrifugal advance/retard and vacuum
advance on it - that's all done electronically, but it still shuffles the
spark around and provides a convenient place to put a camshaft sensor.

Crankshaft sensors are more useful and they fit on the flywheel quite
nicely.

On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:56:21 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Alan Braggins wrote:
I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor.

Most of the cars on the road aren't that new.

My 20 year old BMW had dispensed with the distributor. Not the first make
to do so either.

So I'll try again - name one car made this century with a dizzy?

dunno how new this is, but this definetely has four HT leads coming
from SOMETHING

http://www.free-extras.com/images/fo...ngine-6210.htm

That is a coil pack.

Given that the bargain basement Ford Ka from 1996, with the Endura-E
engine (essentially the Ford Kent OHV engine fitted to the Anglia in
1959) has the EEC-V distributorless ignition, then the Focus will have
it too.

Ford was a bad choice, they went distributorless before many others.


--

On Wed, 07 Dec 2011 14:15:38 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?

most do. Or many do. No contacts but still one 25kv coil feeding one of
four (6 or 8) plugs..via a rotating rotor arm. there may also be a
sensor there to monitor crank position. But thats more generally on the
camshaft

As is the distributor itself sometimes. Depends really on packaging.

I ask again. Name one new car with any form of distributor. If one exists,
avoid it. As it has an ancient engine design best left for the science
museum.

All of them. Without a distributor you need at least one coil per
sparkplug, unless you want to take the risk of firing all the plugs all
the time and the possibility of a misfire ..

On a 4 cylinder you use double ended coils and fire both. No need for
*any* distributor, just a simple sensor on the crank or cam.

--

In message , Andy
Burns writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So I'll try again - name one car made this century with a dizzy?

dunno how new this is, but this definetely has four HT leads coming from
SOMETHING

http://www.free-extras.com/images/fo...ngine-6210.htm

Just a coilpack I think, seems it has the 4 plug leads, a 3 wire
control connection but no mechanical input, base seems potted in resin.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...yHgQf4r2M6xve_
5dBpb2TOSrihKm6j9VSrlQ

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...gKENHV3R3UhU43
Qo-Ru_E9_rGH8qeoChnEaw

IIRC without going to look in the cold and dark, our 2000 Mondeo has
something like that. Certainly no moving parts. It seems just a coil
basically, the timing is all controlled by the ECU.
--
Chris French

Scott M wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would change the filter and drain teh oil about every 10k miles. It
is not a big job.

Failure to do that will limit engine life to about 80K miles max
instead of the 200K most engines will do if not abused.

Which century are you living in?!? The era of cars needing a new engine
at 100k are long, long gone. Anything built in the last 20 years will do
200k on average maintenance.

Which is exactly what I said. regular maintenance good for 200k

dont maintain? as low as 80k.

That there aren't many about is that they
become worthless and chucked in for a change or aren't economic to keep
on the road for the usual reasons.


Note to buyers:
Beware the 2 year old car with 120k on the clock: Or the one year old
with 60K..Its a reps car and many companies simply never service them
at all from new till resale. It may look shiny, but it probably never
had a pad change or an oil change in its life.

Bought my 320d at 127k 3.5yrs old. Stamped service book and copy of
maintenance done kept by the finance company. Done 40k and still 000s
off the next service (20k interval) and the reciprocating parts are at
the bottom of the list as far as things I reckon will need attention!

In similar vein, anyone remember the bloke who posted (prob on
uk.rec.cars.*) about the 2 Astra vans he ran side by side to 100k. One
serviced by the book, the other just keeping the oil topped up. At 100k
the "abused" one was the better car.

Scott

wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 20:30:08 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

There are a lot of cars out there that require cam belt replacement at
60,000 or even 40.000 miles so every 100,000 isn't a good idea.


My ****eOldToyota is a 60K/5yr interval.


Most belts do 60-80k

I've not seen one snap at 40k, but had two (both vauxhall) go at the
sort of 70k mark.

The 1.8 Escrote diesel cambelt was notorious for letting go at 60K,
almost exactly. This was despite Ford specifiying a replacement life
of 100K. Iirc, the revised mileage was 40K, to be on the safe side.
Hardly surprising, as the belt took so many twists and turns it had a
really hard life. I suspect Ford based their estimations on the test
lumps which obviously weren't put through the 24/7/365 duty cycles of
courier vans. Mind you, Ford's previous cambelts were almost unknown
for snapping, but they were simple runs for the belts.

The famous snapper of camshafts was the 2.0 ohc cortina/sierra engine.

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 22:00:48 -0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:



"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...


So a modern distributor does less, - its doesn't have a mechanical spark
generator in it and it doesn't have centrifugal advance/retard and vacuum
advance on it - that's all done electronically, but it still shuffles the
spark around and provides a convenient place to put a camshaft sensor.

Crankshaft sensors are more useful and they fit on the flywheel quite
nicely.

But if they did fit them to the crankshaft then the cable would get
very twisted.


--