En el artículo ,
escribió:

I suspect he was in fixing the bog plumbing.

He's been away for a while, probably "fixing" some plumbing in Thailand.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
A gearbox, particularly one in a vehicle built in the past 25 years or
so, might not need an EP oil, it might not even need a 'gearbox' oil
at all.

Many BMC boxes used engine oil. Even before the Mini where there was no
option.

During the life of the SD1 Rover, the gearbox oil spec was changed from
EP75/80 to ATF.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
Filling with molybdenum
disulphide loaded oil could quite easily leave you with a box that is
'lubricated' but despite that it is totally unusable.

How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, with drained gearboxes?

It could effect the operation of the synchromesh. Which relies on friction.

--
*Too many clicks spoil the browse *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:43:17 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Don't be silly, the industry was killing itself a long time before
Thatcher was elected.

You Daily Mail reading half-wit it wasn't.

Maybe not in Germany or Japan, but it was commiting hari-kiri in the
UK and the US.

BZZZZZ Daily Mail reader Alert!!!

You really are some sort of ****ing halfwit.

wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:43:17 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Don't be silly, the industry was killing itself a long time before
Thatcher was elected.

You Daily Mail reading half-wit it wasn't.

Maybe not in Germany or Japan, but it was commiting hari-kiri in the
UK and the US.

BZZZZZ Daily Mail reader Alert!!!

You really are some sort of ****ing halfwit.

Some sort of ****ing halfwit that has got internet access in his nursing
home.

--
Adam

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Many BMC boxes used engine oil. Even before the Mini where there was no
option.

The early Mini was not suited to the oil available at the time. It was
common to hear 2 year old Minis sounding like rattling cans of nails.
Modern synthetics improve that gear in sump arrangement brilliantly.
The later Minis with proper synth oils in the sumps stayed smooth all
along.

Unlike you, I had loads of early Minis. The very first ones had cone
synchromesh which wasn't up to the job. And if 'gears' crunch, damage will
be caused. The box was changed to baulk ring soon afterwards. And that was
as reliable as any other A series gearbox, ie so-so.
The most common problem on an early Mini transmission was a bearing in
the final drive.

Later Minis with larger engines and more torque put more strain on the
largely unchanged 'box. Racing ones use a highly modified one. Synthetic
oils didn't improve things at all over a properly serviced one using dino
oils.

--
*Confession is good for the soul, but bad for your career.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You really are some sort of ****ing halfwit.

Some

BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZZ!!!! Knobhead alert!!!

See dribble has learned how to copy while in treatment. Pity that's all he
learned.

--
*Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Dec 13, 11:25*am, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:
In article
,
* *thirty-six wrote:

*Filling with molybdenum
disulphide loaded oil could quite easily leave you with a box that is
'lubricated' *but despite that it is totally unusable.
How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, *with drained gearboxes?

It could effect the operation of the synchromesh. Which relies on friction.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Unlike you, I had loads of early Minis.

My first car was Mini, I have had three in all.

You are remarkably ill informed about them, then.

Later Minis with larger engines and more torque put more strain on the
largely unchanged 'box. Racing ones use a highly modified one.
Synthetic oils didn't improve things at all over a properly serviced
one using dino oils.

That is total nonsense. Oil in a Mini, or 1100, could be degraded
seriously after 1,000 miles. Using pure synthetic the oils stays
undegraded.

More ********. Mini engines lasted just as well as any other A series if
serviced by the book - which didn't include 1000 mile oil changes. And the
gearboxes were pretty well as reliable as in other A Series applications.
I ran several very secondhand Minis into the ground, and it was rust which
killed them, not mechanics.

Only when the beefier drive shafts on the 1100 came did the Cooper come
about, both in 1962 - using the same shafts. The 850 shafts could not
handle a powerful engine, as many boy-racer DIYers found out when doing
a DIY racing head change - the original shafts could not handle the
extra power.

Sigh. We can add basic engineering knowledge to your long list of things
you know little about. It's torque that kills such components, not power.
And 'tuned' engines rarely increase maximum torque - especially home
modified ones. For that you need to increase the capacity or use some form
of forced induction.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article
,
thirty-six wrote:
It could effect the operation of the synchromesh. Which relies on
friction.


I make fast clutchless shifts by rev matching. The input shaft is
controlled by engine speed and synchro is not necessary in most
driving. It helps to have a fast engine pickup.

You actually mean very slow gearchanges. No engine ever made slows up or
speeds up fast enough to get anywhere near the speed you can change up or
down with synchromesh.

--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:47:40 +0000, grimly4 wrote:
BZZZZZ Daily Mail reader Alert!!!

You really are some sort of ****ing halfwit.

Wanking halfwit, please - the implication that he has the ability to
reproduce is too troubling.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 13:35:53 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
Unlike you, I had loads of early Minis.

My first car was Mini, I have had three in all.

You see that Mr. Bean, sitting on the roof of his Mini with his mop in
his hand? That's you, that is.

Jules Richardson wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:47:40 +0000, grimly4 wrote:
BZZZZZ Daily Mail reader Alert!!!

You really are some sort of ****ing halfwit.

Wanking halfwit, please - the implication that he has the ability to
reproduce is too troubling.

Are you suggesting that he should "go and **** himself" .

--
Adam

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
More ********. Mini engines lasted just as well as any other A series
if serviced by the book

Total tripe! The gearboxes sounded like cans of nails. Your hearing went
years ago

And your reading comprehension has never developed. I said engines. And
given they share the lubricant, any early failure of that would result in
reduced engine life.

Only when the beefier drive shafts on the 1100 came did the Cooper
come about, both in 1962 - using the same shafts. The 850 shafts
could not handle a powerful engine, as many boy-racer DIYers found
out when doing a DIY racing head change - the original shafts could
not handle the extra power.

Sigh. We can add basic engineering knowledge to your long list of
things you know little about. It's torque that kills such components,
not power. And 'tuned' engines rarely increase maximum torque -
especially home modified ones. For that you need to increase the
capacity or use some form of forced induction.

What a plonker. Boy racers regularly burnt out the shafts on 850s.

They 'burnt out' drive shafts? Let's add chemistry to engineering to that
list...

Again, the car would have greatly befitted from synthetic oils and they
were available from ~1969 onwards. Now you know. Repeat all this back
to yourself.

Synthetic *may* have been 'available' from '69 if you worked in an oil
laboratory. But it took some 30 years before they became common.

--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

I ran several very secondhand Minis into the ground, and it was rust which
killed them, not mechanics.

*nods* Great fun to drive and reliable if you changed the oil regularly,
but total rotboxes.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:56:59 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

On Dec 13, 12:34*am, The Other Mike
wrote:

A gearbox, particularly one in a vehicle built in the past 25 years or
so, might not need an EP oil, it might not even need a 'gearbox' oil
at all. *Times move on, finishing processes are better. tolerances
more tightly controlled, debris traps are fitted such that gearbox oil
doesn't deteriorate in 4 years. *250,000 miles on a gearbox with a
change quality and noise level identical to that when new is possible
without any intervention for maintenance. * Filling with molybdenum
disulphide loaded oil could quite easily leave you with a box that is
'lubricated' *but despite that it is totally unusable.

How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, with drained gearboxes?

Hint: drag racers don't have synchromesh gearboxes


--

In message , Mike Tomlinson
writes
En el artículo ,
escribió:

I suspect he was in fixing the bog plumbing.

He's been away for a while, probably "fixing" some plumbing in Thailand.

Hilda Drivel ...

--
geoff

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

I ran several very secondhand Minis into the ground, and it was rust
which killed them, not mechanics.

*nods* Great fun to drive and reliable if you changed the oil regularly,
but total rotboxes.

I used to drive mine pedal to metal the length of the country. It was the
first vehicle I'd owned that didn't complain with that sort of treatment.
I reckon the 850 was the strongest version of the A series made - with the
exception of the short stroke Cooper S unit.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Synthetic *may* have been 'available' from '69 if you worked in an oil
laboratory. But it took some 30 years before they became common.

On sale around that time.

Strange that even BMW didn't specify fully synthetic until this century...

--
*If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, with drained gearboxes?

Hint: drag racers don't have synchromesh gearboxes

Often modified autos?

--
*Remember not to forget that which you do not need to know.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:30:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And in any case, if the pedal rubbers are worn and its got 20k on the
clock, worry. Its not so easy to clock cars as it was BUT you can get
the plates and the speedo off a wreck and put them on a high mileage
car..or just the speedo sometimes..
A half decent car will store the mileage information elsewhere in
addition. Making it extremely difficult to alter the true reading
without it showing it has been tampered with.

but not impossible...

Nothing is impossible. However, to change both the speedo and the engine
ECU - and alter them so they can't be traced - requires rather more skill
than the average car thief possesses. But then many buyers won't care that
they've bought stolen goods either. At a knock down price.

Its when you pay full price and the thing blows up 1000 miles
later...because the engine had done its 1000k without an oil change..

I'd love to see a car that could do 1000k without an oil change.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Dave Plowman (News)
escribió:

I ran several very secondhand Minis into the ground, and it was rust
which killed them, not mechanics.

*nods* Great fun to drive and reliable if you changed the oil regularly,
but total rotboxes.

I used to drive mine pedal to metal the length of the country. It was the
first vehicle I'd owned that didn't complain with that sort of treatment.
I reckon the 850 was the strongest version of the A series made - with the
exception of the short stroke Cooper S unit.

I think so. The next best one IMHO was the 1275.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, with drained gearboxes?

Hint: drag racers don't have synchromesh gearboxes

Often modified autos?

Often no gears at all..

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:30:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And in any case, if the pedal rubbers are worn and its got 20k on the
clock, worry. Its not so easy to clock cars as it was BUT you can get
the plates and the speedo off a wreck and put them on a high mileage
car..or just the speedo sometimes..
A half decent car will store the mileage information elsewhere in
addition. Making it extremely difficult to alter the true reading
without it showing it has been tampered with.

but not impossible...

Nothing is impossible. However, to change both the speedo and the engine
ECU - and alter them so they can't be traced - requires rather more
skill
than the average car thief possesses. But then many buyers won't care
that
they've bought stolen goods either. At a knock down price.

Its when you pay full price and the thing blows up 1000 miles
later...because the engine had done its 1000k without an oil change..

I'd love to see a car that could do 1000k without an oil change.


Any electric car should :-)

i'll get me coat

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 00:11:49 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:30:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
snip
but not impossible...

Nothing is impossible. However, to change both the speedo and the engine
ECU - and alter them so they can't be traced - requires rather more
skill
than the average car thief possesses. But then many buyers won't care
that
they've bought stolen goods either. At a knock down price.

Its when you pay full price and the thing blows up 1000 miles
later...because the engine had done its 1000k without an oil change..

I'd love to see a car that could do 1000k without an oil change.


Any electric car should :-)

i'll get me coat

Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Paper clips are the larval stage of coat hangers.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 23:31:38 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
The Other Mike wrote:
How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, with drained gearboxes?

Hint: drag racers don't have synchromesh gearboxes

Often modified autos?

Or dog boxes.


--

"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?

dennis@home wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at 20
mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

electric motors that will run for a year without stopping are hardly
rocket science.

More likely failure modes are due to damage

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at 20
mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

I'd bet there are very few electric cars that get near 100,000 miles. The
driver would die of boredom first.

--
*Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:04:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

dennis@home wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at 20
mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

electric motors that will run for a year without stopping are hardly
rocket science.

More likely failure modes are due to damage

Gearbox?

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

Heard on a public transportation vehicle while in Orlando:
"When you exit this vehicle, please be sure to lower your head and watch your step."
"If you fail to do so, please lower your voice and watch your language."

Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:04:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

dennis@home wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at 20
mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

electric motors that will run for a year without stopping are hardly
rocket science.

More likely failure modes are due to damage

Gearbox?


what gearbox?

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:04:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

dennis@home wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at 20
mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

electric motors that will run for a year without stopping are hardly
rocket science.

More likely failure modes are due to damage

Gearbox?


what gearbox?

The one on the window winder?

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Tue, 06 Dec 2011 17:30:38 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
And in any case, if the pedal rubbers are worn and its got 20k on the
clock, worry. Its not so easy to clock cars as it was BUT you can get
the plates and the speedo off a wreck and put them on a high mileage
car..or just the speedo sometimes..
A half decent car will store the mileage information elsewhere in
addition. Making it extremely difficult to alter the true reading
without it showing it has been tampered with.

but not impossible...

Nothing is impossible. However, to change both the speedo and the engine
ECU - and alter them so they can't be traced - requires rather more
skill
than the average car thief possesses. But then many buyers won't
care that
they've bought stolen goods either. At a knock down price.

Its when you pay full price and the thing blows up 1000 miles
later...because the engine had done its 1000k without an oil change..
I'd love to see a car that could do 1000k without an oil change.


Any electric car should :-)

Trigger's broom

--
geoff

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:04:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at 20
mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

electric motors that will run for a year without stopping are hardly
rocket science.

More likely failure modes are due to damage
Gearbox?

what gearbox?

I believe the electric Lotus Elise has a two speed gearbox.

Tim

Tim wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:04:41 -0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
dennis@home wrote:


"Lieutenant Scott" wrote in message
newsp.v6gegrjcytk5n5@i7-940...


Would an electric car do that much? (Not without new motors
anyway).

Why would contactless motors wear out?



might need new bearings, but really 100,000 miles is not a lot..at
20 mph average its only 5,000 hours - less than a year really.

electric motors that will run for a year without stopping are
hardly rocket science.

More likely failure modes are due to damage
Gearbox?

what gearbox?

I believe the electric Lotus Elise has a two speed gearbox.

Scrub that. Looks like it's only a single speed box.

http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/specs

That said, I'm sure that Top Gear said it had a two speed box and they could
have been wrong could they?? ;-)

Tim

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 11:23:00 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Many BMC boxes used engine oil. Even before the Mini where there was no
option.

Indeed; the Hunter was another engine-oil box.

During the life of the SD1 Rover, the gearbox oil spec was changed from
EP75/80 to ATF.

As does the MT75 box in Fords, iirc.

Also, I have a feeling that the typical 'EP80 or EP90' g'box oils
aren't actually showing the viscosity on the package. I can't be
utterly sure of that, but I observed that EP90 doesn't flow anything
like as thickly as I'd expected and suspect there's something else at
play.

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 15:31:43 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

What a plonker. Boy racers regularly burnt out the shafts on 850s.

It was the CV joints - I know, I was there. A mate of mine was so used
to doing them on his rally car he reckoned about ten minutes a side or
somesuch.
They were ****, though.

Also, talking of CV joints, the ones on the Imps were dreadful -
especially aftermarket ones. Iirc, there was a fix for that; making
sure the replacement was from a particular source.

In article ,
wrote:
What a plonker. Boy racers regularly burnt out the shafts on 850s.

It was the CV joints - I know, I was there. A mate of mine was so used
to doing them on his rally car he reckoned about ten minutes a side or
somesuch.
They were ****, though.

If you up the output of any engine in any car there's the likelihood
transmission components will fail. CV joints are no exception. The gearbox
internals were also replaced with a different design in competition Minis.
Very obvious by the whine as they passed the Jags. ;-)

--
*7up is good for you, signed snow white*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The CV joints did go quickly. A knocking sound on full lock.

Quickly? The day after the car was new? They were perfectly capable of
doing high miles on the standard vehicle provided the rubber boots were
replaced as soon as any splits etc appeared.

The beefed
up 850s burnt out at g/box end as well when beefed up. That is whay the
Cooper was fines as it had the beefier BMC 1100 setup.

The inner joints were originally rubber cruciform. Easily replaced with
needle roller types.

--
*Upon the advice of my attorney, my shirt bears no message at this time

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
The CV joints did go quickly. A knocking sound on full lock.

Quickly? The day after the car was new?

Please pay attention. The point is boy-racing the engine.

Not a term I'm familiar with. Is that painting white stripes on it?

The inner joints were originally rubber cruciform. Easily replaced with
needle roller types.

Cooper and 1100 had different to 850.

They were different in all sorts of ways. Including engine output. So just
how is it relevant?

--
*All generalizations are false.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.