In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
As usual you have just visited a few websites and are quoting the bits
that suit you without any understanding of the subject.

Dave,

you are wasting your time.

Oh look! Another knobhead!

Didn't take long to get back to normal, then. Go back to your therapist
and get your money back.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Large oil companies make much more money having you use cheap petroleum
oils and greases and changing them frequently.

As opposed to very expensive synthetics which don't increase the service
time pro-rata.

The long life oil for my BMW is 15 quid a litre. Oil changes approx 15,000
miles at best. A good quality dino oil - with 6000 mile changes - is
better value, if nothing else is taken into consideration..

--
*Do paediatricians play miniature golf on Wednesdays?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You'll find black baked on deposits on an engine run exclusively on
synthetics from new too - as I discovered when changing the rocker
cover gasket on my BMW.

You will not with "pure" synthetics. As been stated on this thread.
There are "pure" synthetics and pretend synthetics.

As has been stated by *you* - so not a good start. Look up BMW spec oil.
You're good at that.

--
*Why is it that rain drops but snow falls?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Oh - if you used a modern fully synthetic oil in an A Series engine,
you'll experience rapid cam and tappet wear. They don't have the
correct additives for this type of engine.

They do. Read up on API SM oils. They are downwardly compatible.
Again "pure" synthetics will cope with tiddly engine like an A series.

You've snipped a rather important bit. Here it is again.

'Those additives aren't suitable for cat. equipped engines, so inferior
types are used'.



Millers make a oil specifically for Minis to cope with the gears in the
sump.

Why would you need a special oil for a few gears in your imaginary world?
Many engines already have gears that need lubrication.

--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Raad this US article. It mentions the Popular Science article and the
NY taxi cab tests. Concusion of the NY test:

'To summarize the findings and conclusions, the test facility
responsible for the demonstration submitted this statement: "The data
presented in this report indicates that the Amsoil synthetic SAE 10W-40
passenger-car motor oil formulation.provided protection of the test
engines from excessive wear and deposit formation, far beyond the normal
3,000-mile change interval."

Any article which says 3000 mile change intervals are the norm is so out
of date as to be laughable. Fairly common with US articles about car oil.
Filled with half facts and conjecture. No wonder you quote them.

--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You've snipped a rather important bit. Here it is again.

'Those additives aren't suitable for cat. equipped engines, so inferior
types are used'.

Nonsense.

Do some research into ZDDP.

There is no 'one size fits all' oil for car engines.

--
*The most common name in the world is Mohammed *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Dec 10, 10:50*am, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...

What sort of car are you talking about that still has a dizzy?
A reliable one.

I recall having one of those transistorised, no contacts ign retrofits on an
old car a I had. It had mechanical petrol fuel injection. The difference in
starting, idling and acceleration was amazing. I roughly calculated it was
5% better in fuel efficiency.

That gain would be normal on an old style CB system when serviced at
3000 miles. I think it was Duccellier (sp) who were first with the
sliding contact which prevented point erosion of the CB, so extending
the service interval to at least 8000 miles where dwell and timing
needed to be checked.

On Dec 10, 10:27*am, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...

*the distributer rotor is still a better system than
double ended coils or split tension systems.

You jest of course.

Look at the size of the electrode on a platinum tipped sparking plug.
Compare it with a steel/copper electrode plug. Which gives the fatter
spark? You can't use the traditional plug on a reverse spark system,
so you can't get the energy into the cylinder. Racing cars use
traditional sparking plugs. Did it never cross your mind why?

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:
[snip]

About 25 years ago I did some work in an oil research lab around Oxfordshire.

Before you got sacked for being too lazy to push a broom around properly.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 16:11:26 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
'To summarize the findings and conclusions, the test facility
responsible for the demonstration submitted this statement: "The data
presented in this report indicates that the Amsoil synthetic SAE 10W-40
passenger-car motor oil formulation.provided protection of the test
engines from excessive wear and deposit formation, far beyond the
normal 3,000-mile change interval."

Any article which says 3000 mile change intervals are the norm is so out
of date as to be laughable. Fairly common with US articles about car
oil.

To be fair, they're only repeating what the manuals for US vehicles and
the US dealerships say.

cheers

Jules

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 12:24:22 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jules Richardson wrote:
All of my midgets had 3000 mile oil changes,

Same with my Stags.

Strange. 6000 miles intervals in the UK - same as pretty well every
other car of the time. Is the 3000 mile thingie in official BL
literature - or just the Haynes etc book of generalizations?

I wish I still had my manuals - I'm pretty sure it was in the official
Triumph 'shop manual, but not sure about Haynes (the Haynes manual for
the Stag wasn't too bad, incidentally - hailing from the days when they
were actually reasonable rather than printed on bog paper and claiming
that most tasks were beyond the realms of DIY).

Perhaps Triumph were over-cautious in the early days of that engine
though, and would have raised the interval had things have worked out
differently (but then given the short life of the timing chain sprockets
and the jackshaft which drove the water pump and dizzy, maybe not :-)

My truck ('67 Ford) is 6000 miles (and nothing in the manual about
changing it after x years even if it wasn't used - maybe that's only a
synthetic oil thing?).

Not really. Low use usually equates to short journeys therefore more
condensation to contaminate the oil. Certain additives may have a 'shelf
life' too - but that's more of a guess.

It just seems that I've only seem recommendations for changing oil after
"x miles of y years whichever comes first" on newer engines, never on
older ones of the '70s and earlier. I wouldn't expect oil to "go off" if
it were just sitting there, so long as it wasn't contaminated by
something from outside.

More modern vehicles this side of the Pond all seem to be 3000mi for
oil changes, so in that respect things have actually got worse - or
it's all a big conspiracy

Which modern vehicles do you mean? Any normal car with a 3000 mile
service interval would be a bad joke in Europe. And there aren't that
many models exclusive to the US.

I agree it would be a joke; it rather surprised me when I moved here!
Everything here seems to run with non-synthetic oils though, so maybe
that makes a difference (imagined or otherwise :-) - or maybe it's a
difference in the fuel formulation.

It's certainly the norm for GM kit over here (my brother in law's a GM
mechanic), and I believe it's the same for the other big US manufacturers
(which makes sense; I could see GM losing sales if competitors were
offering vehicles with much higher service intervals)

I'm not sure to what extent transmission packages are shared between the
US and Europe. Although the US has been dragged out of the dark ages and
engines with OHC and EFI are the norm these days, the engines are
typically 3L or more and fuel economy is rather dreadful compared to what
I was used to in the UK - suggesting that they're probably different,
even if the chassis and bodyshell is mostly shared with European models.

cheers

Jules

On Dec 10, 7:32*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...

The perfomance gains, after degumming the rings and properly bedding
them in, with a 1.3 Maestro were what convinced me to use at least a
good semi-synthetic in all oil changes. *Could pretty much out-
accelerate any regular car including an XR2 at least up to 60mph. * B-
road overtaking was easy in 3rd gear. *Quiet at 85mph and returned
around 55mpg. I found it ideal for winding narrow roads. *I could also
start it at 5 degC without choke and between -8 and 0 with just 1/4
way on the choke control.

With "pure" synthetic oils the oil is very fluid at those temperatures. This
reduces drag on start up and gets oil to the bearings ASAP, reducing wear..
It also gives starter motors longer life as they do not need to work so
hard. *If "pure" synthetic oils are used as standard, then the starter can
be smaller. *This is less drag on the battery giving longer battery life as
well. More economical as less energy is taken from the crank to recharge the
battery - better mpg. *Knock on is that a smaller alternator, battery and
starter can be fitted saving cost and weight and giving better mpg.

There are a few little other tricks to turn
such an indifferent machine into a flyer,
and the point is, they are all cheap or no cost.

I can only think of using:

1. *"pure" synthetic oils

Couldn't justify the cost, I used Valvolene Semi-synthetic.

2. *Suitable tyres

Nicely worn, original narrow (by todays norm) tyres.

3. *Using the "advanced" type of petrols.

i had previously been using a company car, doing high milage, which
was very particular about which fuel used, so I was able to determine
that the fuel giving the biggest bang was from a filling station under
the Total banner. I used this fuel from this specific filling station
so as to spot changes in economy and performance when any service
procedure was performed on the Maestro.

Service items affecting performance/economy also included;

Reducing cam clearance. From specified 0.014" was reduced with
increasing performance down to 0.011"

Set needle height correctly to piston deck on SU carb. Used a light
oil in the piston damper (not engine oil as specced in Haynes).
Slimmed throttle spindle and rounded leading edge of plate. Jet was
set according to best acceleration and mixture was later checked with
Colourtune.

Removing float from distributer bearing. It was a CB-free distributer
and should theoretically not been affected but removing the float with
a shim meant that the top end was smoother and quicker.

Using dual copper electrode non-resistive sparking plugs. Filing back
the earth electrode to expose the centre, which improved performance
from starting to across the revs at all temperatures. Reducing the
gap from 0.9mm to 0.6mm for improved performance at the upper end.
This last step was particularly noticeable in overtaking performance.

Finding and sealing every little leak in the cooling system so that
the system retained pressure for 20 minutes after switch off and using
a 40% glycol/water mix for best heat transmission.

Took front tyre pressures up from recommended 28 psi to 35psi .

Used 18" wiper blades, not 20" . Well, it improved wiper
performance.

Cleaned windows and mirrors with methylated spirits. Good vision is
important when travelling at 85mph along B-roads.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:06:05 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
Dave,

you are wasting your time.

Oh look! Another knobhead!

Didn't take long to get back to normal, then.

Exactly. I know knobhead when I see them. That was a knobhead alert!

Your mum etc.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
As usual you have just visited a few websites and are quoting the bits
that suit you without any understanding of the subject.

Dave,

you are wasting your time.

Oh look! Another knobhead!

Didn't take long to get back to normal, then. Go back to your therapist
and get your money back.

Look ...

He's learned a new word and wants to use it

humour him before they fry his frontal lobes again

--
geoff

On Dec 10, 6:05*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Dec 10, 7:32*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:









"thirty-six" wrote in message

....

The perfomance gains, after degumming the rings and properly bedding
them in, with a 1.3 Maestro were what convinced me to use at least a
good semi-synthetic in all oil changes. *Could pretty much out-
accelerate any regular car including an XR2 at least up to 60mph. * B-
road overtaking was easy in 3rd gear. *Quiet at 85mph and returned
around 55mpg. I found it ideal for winding narrow roads. *I could also
start it at 5 degC without choke and between -8 and 0 with just 1/4
way on the choke control.

With "pure" synthetic oils the oil is very fluid at those temperatures. This
reduces drag on start up and gets oil to the bearings ASAP, reducing wear.
It also gives starter motors longer life as they do not need to work so
hard. *If "pure" synthetic oils are used as standard, then the starter can
be smaller. *This is less drag on the battery giving longer battery life as
well. More economical as less energy is taken from the crank to recharge the
battery - better mpg. *Knock on is that a smaller alternator, battery and
starter can be fitted saving cost and weight and giving better mpg.

There are a few little other tricks to turn
such an indifferent machine into a flyer,
and the point is, they are all cheap or no cost.

I can only think of using:

1. *"pure" synthetic oils

Couldn't justify the cost, I used Valvolene Semi-synthetic.

2. *Suitable tyres

Nicely worn, original narrow (by todays norm) tyres.

3. *Using the "advanced" type of petrols.

i had previously been using a company car, doing high milage, which
was very particular about which fuel used, so I was able to determine
that the fuel giving the biggest bang was from a filling station under
the Total banner. *I used this fuel from this specific filling station
so as to spot changes in economy and performance when any service
procedure was performed on the Maestro.

Service items affecting performance/economy also included;

Reducing cam clearance. *From specified 0.014" was reduced with
increasing performance down to 0.011"

Set needle height correctly to piston deck on SU carb. *Used a light
oil in the piston damper (not engine oil as specced in Haynes).
Slimmed throttle spindle and rounded leading edge of plate. *Jet was
set according to best acceleration and mixture was later checked with
Colourtune.

Removing float from distributer bearing. *It was a CB-free distributer
and should theoretically not been affected but removing the float with
a shim meant that the top end was smoother and quicker.

Using dual copper electrode non-resistive sparking plugs. *Filing back
the earth electrode to expose the centre, which improved performance
from starting to across the revs at all temperatures. *Reducing the
gap from 0.9mm to 0.6mm for improved performance at the upper end.
This last step was particularly noticeable in overtaking performance.

Finding and sealing every little leak in the cooling system so that
the system retained pressure for 20 minutes after switch off and using
a 40% glycol/water mix for best heat transmission.

Took front tyre pressures up from recommended 28 psi to 35psi .

Used 18" wiper blades, not 20" . * *Well, it improved wiper
performance.

Cleaned windows and mirrors with methylated spirits. *Good vision is
important when travelling at 85mph along B-roads.

and replaced gearbox oil with lower viscocity grade to below the fill
level.
and used Molyslip in the engine oil.
The likes of Molyslip might not benefit an engine fitted with a
PURE synthetic, but the evidence is in the cold cranking speed
improvement with lesser oils. The lower viscocity synthetic oil (or
even part-synthetic) means cylinder vacuum is created earlier giving
the ideal fuel mist to aid starting.

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Any article which says 3000 mile change intervals are the norm is so
out of date as to be laughable. Fairly common with US articles about
car oil. Filled with half facts and conjecture. No wonder you quote
them.

It is clear you can't read properly. The point is clearly made by the
facts presented, and by even 1986 standards it clear of the amazing
benefits.

Things have moved on in 15 years. Very much so with oils, as with so much
else.

--
*If you ate pasta and anti-pasta, would you still be hungry?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:11:44 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Any article which says 3000 mile change intervals are the norm is so
out of date as to be laughable. Fairly common with US articles about
car oil. Filled with half facts and conjecture. No wonder you quote
them.

It is clear you can't read properly. The point is clearly made by the
facts presented, and by even 1986 standards it clear of the amazing
benefits.

Things have moved on in 15 years. Very much so with oils, as with so
much else.

My God he wrote some sense. Yes fully synthetics are so cheap you can
buy them in Tesco. In 1986 you could only buy them in rare dealers.
Even the article stated it was amazed that some automotive people had
never heard of Mobil 1 which was ~17 years old by then.

Get what the article stated. The lubrication properties of pure
synthetics were "enormous" to crap mineral or semi-mineral. Then look at
the prices of synths now and it is a no brainer. Anyone who does not buy
them being made awre of all this needs attention.

Again....for the hard of thinking...The article concludes:

'Does all of this mean that synthetic motor oils are superior to
conventional petroleum oils? If you value your automobile engine and
would like to keep it in peak, trouble-free operating condition year
after year and far beyond its normal expected life, our conclusion is
"Yes, without question."'

That was written in 1986 when synthetics were "very" expensive. In
Tesco, a supermarket, most oils on the shelf were semi or full synthetic
up to API SM and well priced. Now there is no excuse not to use them.

If you want you car to deteriorate please buy the cheapest oil from a
Pound Shop and sprinkle sand in it for good measure.

Well, that knocks it on the head for synthetics then...Drivel approves.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:
Well, that knocks it on the head for synthetics then...Drivel approves.

;-)

Tesco are so proud of their oil there is no mention of it on their website.
Obviously a very special offer...

--
*Why is it that doctors call what they do "practice"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:11:44 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Any article which says 3000 mile change intervals are the norm is so
out of date as to be laughable. Fairly common with US articles about
car oil. Filled with half facts and conjecture. No wonder you quote
them.

It is clear you can't read properly. The point is clearly made by the
facts presented, and by even 1986 standards it clear of the amazing
benefits.

Things have moved on in 15 years. Very much so with oils, as with so
much else.

My God he wrote some sense. Yes fully synthetics are so cheap you can
buy them in Tesco. In 1986 you could only buy them in rare dealers.
Even the article stated it was amazed that some automotive people had
never heard of Mobil 1 which was ~17 years old by then.

Get what the article stated. The lubrication properties of pure
synthetics were "enormous" to crap mineral or semi-mineral. Then look at
the prices of synths now and it is a no brainer. Anyone who does not buy
them being made awre of all this needs attention.

Again....for the hard of thinking...The article concludes:

'Does all of this mean that synthetic motor oils are superior to
conventional petroleum oils? If you value your automobile engine and
would like to keep it in peak, trouble-free operating condition year
after year and far beyond its normal expected life, our conclusion is
"Yes, without question."'

That was written in 1986 when synthetics were "very" expensive. In
Tesco, a supermarket, most oils on the shelf were semi or full synthetic
up to API SM and well priced. Now there is no excuse not to use them.

If you want you car to deteriorate please buy the cheapest oil from a
Pound Shop and sprinkle sand in it for good measure.

Well,

BZZZZZZZZ!! knobhead Alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZ!! knobhead Alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZ!! knobhead Alert!!!
BZZZZZZZZ!! knobhead Alert!!!


This new medication doesn't seem to be working, does it dIMM


--
geoff

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

"Jules Richardson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:06:05 +0000, Doctor Drivel wrote:
Dave,

you are wasting your time.

Oh look! Another knobhead!

Didn't take long to get back to normal, then.

Exactly. I know knobhead when I see them. That was a knobhead alert!

Your mum etc.

She would identify knobheads when seen.

Is that what attracted her to drivel senior?

--
geoff

On Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:41:42 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

I know that the smaller diesel VANS are not good for much over 250k as
they are in general 'car engines' detuned a bit

Even so, 250K isn't to be sniffed at.
The old Tranny 2.5Di lump would do 250K while shamefully neglected, as
would the Escort 1.6D, the Montego Perkins O-series diesel and a host
of others. Many examples of those mentioned were quite capable of
doing many more miles than 250K is properly maintained - the bodywork
and general state of the vehicle usually dictated a
trade-in/scrapyard/pikey eventually.

On Dec 11, 9:02*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...
On Dec 10, 6:05 pm, thirty-six wrote:









On Dec 10, 7:32 am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"thirty-six" wrote in message

....

The perfomance gains, after degumming the rings and properly bedding
them in, with a 1.3 Maestro were what convinced me to use at least a
good semi-synthetic in all oil changes. Could pretty much out-
accelerate any regular car including an XR2 at least up to 60mph. B-
road overtaking was easy in 3rd gear. Quiet at 85mph and returned
around 55mpg. I found it ideal for winding narrow roads. I could also
start it at 5 degC without choke and between -8 and 0 with just 1/4
way on the choke control.

With "pure" synthetic oils the oil is very fluid at those temperatures.
This
reduces drag on start up and gets oil to the bearings ASAP, reducing
wear.
It also gives starter motors longer life as they do not need to work so
hard. If "pure" synthetic oils are used as standard, then the starter
can
be smaller. This is less drag on the battery giving longer battery life
as
well. More economical as less energy is taken from the crank to recharge
the
battery - better mpg. Knock on is that a smaller alternator, battery and
starter can be fitted saving cost and weight and giving better mpg.

There are a few little other tricks to turn
such an indifferent machine into a flyer,
and the point is, they are all cheap or no cost.

I can only think of using:

1. "pure" synthetic oils

Couldn't justify the cost, I used Valvolene Semi-synthetic.

2. Suitable tyres

Nicely worn, original narrow (by todays norm) tyres.

3. Using the "advanced" type of petrols.

I asked for these tricks you mentioned, not your justification for penny
pinching.

There was no penny-pinching. I started with Valvoline semi some 15
years ago. It took a while before I could find a known good oil,
other than pay the extortionate price of around £40 for Mobil1.
Filters replaced and new wipers fitted. A ring degum using MoreMPG
and an on the road bed-in session. Where do you see penny-pinching?
Do you object to my capabilities of doing my own motor servicing? Do
you think I should have just bunged the dealer £150 for doing suspect
servicing? Taken the adjustments to book specification rather than
looking foer maximum torque and an extended upper range?

Where's the penny-pinching. I paid over £35 for the required service
items, all an enhancement on manufacturers specification.


BTW, Tesco do an API SM fully synthetic very cheaply. Not putting it in
these day, is rather foolish

i had previously been using a company car, doing high milage, which
was very particular about which fuel used, so I was able to determine
that the fuel giving the biggest bang was from a filling station under
the Total banner. I used this fuel from this specific filling station
so as to spot changes in economy and performance when any service
procedure was performed on the Maestro.

If you read the article I posted links to they clearly mention that lesser
fuels can be used with fully synthetic oils.









Service items affecting performance/economy also included;

Reducing cam clearance. From specified 0.014" was reduced with
increasing performance down to 0.011"

Set needle height correctly to piston deck on SU carb. Used a light
oil in the piston damper (not engine oil as specced in Haynes).
Slimmed throttle spindle and rounded leading edge of plate. Jet was
set according to best acceleration and mixture was later checked with
Colourtune.

Removing float from distributer bearing. It was a CB-free distributer
and should theoretically not been affected but removing the float with
a shim meant that the top end was smoother and quicker.

Using dual copper electrode non-resistive sparking plugs. Filing back
the earth electrode to expose the centre, which improved performance
from starting to across the revs at all temperatures. Reducing the
gap from 0.9mm to 0.6mm for improved performance at the upper end.
This last step was particularly noticeable in overtaking performance.

Finding and sealing every little leak in the cooling system so that
the system retained pressure for 20 minutes after switch off and using
a 40% glycol/water mix for best heat transmission.

Took front tyre pressures up from recommended 28 psi to 35psi .

Used 18" wiper blades, not 20" . Well, it improved wiper
performance.

Cleaned windows and mirrors with methylated spirits. Good vision is
important when travelling at 85mph along B-roads.

and replaced gearbox oil with lower viscocity grade to below the fill
level.
and used Molyslip in the engine oil.
* * * *The likes of Molyslip might not benefit an engine fitted with a
PURE synthetic, but the evidence is in the cold cranking speed
improvement with lesser oils. *The lower viscocity synthetic oil (or
even part-synthetic) means cylinder vacuum is created earlier giving
the ideal fuel mist to aid starting.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2011 18:29:17 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

Sounds like pure synthetic is the answer.

I suspect an MoS2 loaded gear lubricant will have a lower viscocity
and not be temperature sensitive.

Christ, it's like ******** colliding.

On Dec 11, 9:54*pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...

There was no penny-pinching. *I started with Valvoline
semi some 15 years ago. *It took a while before I
could find a known good oil, other than pay the
extortionate price of around £40 for Mobil1.

If you read the two articles I posted link to, you will see that Mobil 1 was
not extortionate at all when looking at the big picture. *For the past 20

The expected lifespan of the vehicle was between 2 and 5 years. The
semi-synthetic cost about £12 , Mobil 1 cost around £40 . As I had
yet to be convinced, especially considering the engine had been
designed and evolved with mineral oil in mind, and I had no examples
of a full synthetic being used other than by rally enthusiasts in what
on the face of it were more advanced powertrains, there was no need to
plummet for the Mobil 1, my annual milage at around 5000 did not
warrant it.

years putting anything except fully synthetic in a car has been false
economy. *The price of full synthetic now is not worth looking at twice..

If I needed a vehicle for six months, I'd probably use the cheap
stuff.

A ring degum using MoreMPG

The articles clearly put across that rings do not degum and gave photos,
when using pure synthetics.

No, I used a degum treatment called MoreMPG. Possibly acetone in a
heavily dried linseed oil.


The only thing an end user can do to improve their car's performance in many
aspects, is put energy types on the wheels,

The original tyres were Goodyear energy tyres. A thinner tread
provides a lower rolling resistance, which is why I wasn't eager to
change the tyres as they approached 3mm. At about 2.5mm it is normal
to get new tyres to cope with snow but for the rest of the year, the
legal minimum at 1.6mm is satisfactory for rain.

use pure synthetic oils and
ultimate type of fuels (may not be needed with pure synthetics. They do have
fuel system cleaner in the fuel.

I didn't use a special fuel. The fuel was the regular leaded at the
time and this particular filling station obviously did not tamper with
their fuel stock. It had previously been the base of a large private
hire business and I expect custom remained brisk with the taxi drivers
in the area. When I needed to refuel out of the area, it became clear
that Total and Elf generally supplied the best 4-star fuel.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"thirty-six" wrote in message
...
On Dec 11, 9:54 pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...

There was no penny-pinching. I started with Valvoline
semi some 15 years ago. It took a while before I
could find a known good oil, other than pay the
extortionate price of around £40 for Mobil1.

If you read the two articles I posted link to, you will see that Mobil 1
was
not extortionate at all when looking at the big picture. For the past 20

The expected lifespan of the vehicle was between 2 and 5 years. The
semi-synthetic cost about £12 , Mobil 1 cost around £40 . As I had
yet to be convinced, especially considering the engine had been
designed and evolved with mineral oil in mind, and I had no examples
of a full synthetic being used other than by rally enthusiasts in what
on the face of it were more advanced powertrains, there was no need to
plummet for the Mobil 1, my annual milage at around 5000 did not
warrant it.


Do some sums. 5 years @ 5000 miles is 25,000 miles. Mobil 1 was
guaranteed to last 25,000 miles then as it was then a pure synthetic. You
have the economy and the ultra protection. It is a no-brainer.

The articles clearly put across that rings do not degum and gave photos,
when using pure synthetics.

No, I used a degum treatment called MoreMPG.
Possibly acetone in a heavily dried linseed oil.

No need as the engine oil does it for you.

I have been using synthetics since around 1988 to 1990, They have always
made economic sense when I did the numbers. Not once have I had a problem
with a part that was lubricated by the oil. The engines always kept their
newness feel and sound.

You can pound engines when using pure synthetics and nothing ever happens
to them. Also I always try and get pure synth gear oils as well. I have
never had problems with gears either.

Me neither, I never changed/topped-up the gear oil in an XR2 in 16 years
from new. Always used Duckhams 20/50, not a seconds bother. You can stick
the cranking speed up your bum, if it starts, it starts. I only ever wanted
to get from A to B.

On Dec 12, 1:58*am, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...
On Dec 11, 9:54 pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"thirty-six" wrote in message

....

There was no penny-pinching. I started with Valvoline
semi some 15 years ago. It took a while before I
could find a known good oil, other than pay the
extortionate price of around £40 for Mobil1.

If you read the two articles I posted link to, you will see that Mobil 1
was
not extortionate at all when looking at the big picture. For the past 20

The expected lifespan of the vehicle was between 2 and 5 years. *The
semi-synthetic cost about £12 , *Mobil 1 cost around £40 . *As I had
yet to be convinced, especially considering the engine had been
designed and evolved with mineral oil in mind, and I had no examples
of a full synthetic being used other than by rally enthusiasts in what
on the face of it were more advanced powertrains, there was no need to
plummet for the Mobil 1, my annual milage at around 5000 did not
warrant it.



Do some sums. 5 years @ 5000 miles is 25,000 miles. *Mobil 1 was guaranteed
to last 25,000 miles then as it was then a pure synthetic. You have the
economy and the ultra protection. *It is a no-brainer.

I had no data to indicate the possible gains in performance and
economy for the engine. I don't recall any knowledge of a guarantee
for Mobil. From my recolection, I used the vehicle for 2.1/2 years on
the semi-synthetic at a total not exceeding 11,000miles, and that was
the last I used it. Overtaking performance remained excellent and
economy was retained throughout. I did not require an oil with a
longer lifespan,what I used exceeded the lifespan of the vehicle.

The articles clearly put across that rings do not degum and gave photos,
when using pure synthetics.
No, I used a degum treatment called MoreMPG.
Possibly acetone in a heavily dried linseed oil.

No need as the engine oil does it for you.

Doubtful it could clean up gummed-up rings in an hour.

I have been using synthetics since around 1988 to 1990, *They have always
made economic sense when I did the numbers. Not once have I had a problem
with a part that was lubricated by the oil. *The engines always kept their
newness feel and sound.

You can pound engines when using pure synthetics and nothing ever happens to
them. Also I always try and get pure synth gear oils as well. I have never
had problems with gears either.

It makes sense over the standard product, but I wonder whether there
is something which gives a better economy.. I know were I am with
engine temperatures and oil viscocities, but a bit in the dark for
choosing gearbox lubricants outside of those specified (other than
choosing the lowest viscocity for short journies). There are
alternatives and I know that drag racers will run a gearbox without
oil.

In article , ARWadsworth adamwadsworth@blue
yonder.co.uk writes

No. I now have the manual. It's 2 years or 30000 miles and uses a SAE 5W-40
oil.

It's to keep the servicing costs down for fleet managers. Doesn't do
the engine much good though.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:32:33 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

The
Ford testing article stated that after 100,000 miles the engine parts were
as new and fit enough to be put in a new engine.

Pah, this is all ********.
I have personal experience of a 100K bike engine that when stripped
was well within new tolerances.
The oil was changed every 3K - mineral oil.

Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , ARWadsworth adamwadsworth@blue
yonder.co.uk writes

No. I now have the manual. It's 2 years or 30000 miles and uses a SAE 5W-40
oil.

It's to keep the servicing costs down for fleet managers. Doesn't do
the engine much good though.


actually fleet cars doing 50k a year probably have far less wear than
the shopping trolley doing 5k..

In article ,
wrote:
The
Ford testing article stated that after 100,000 miles the engine parts were
as new and fit enough to be put in a new engine.

Pah, this is all ********.
I have personal experience of a 100K bike engine that when stripped
was well within new tolerances.
The oil was changed every 3K - mineral oil.

Castrol ran a series of ads showing the same sort of thing in the '50/60s
- long before synthetic was around.

--
*Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
eb.com...

But neither the Japs or Germans 'started the ball rolling' with accuracy
in engine making. Possibly at the cheaper end. But that's not what you
said.

It wasn't the accuracy of the engine that killed British cars off, it was
price. they were too expensive due to a lack of productivity caused by
unions with too much power.

Unions were the symptom not the ROOT CAUSE. Even the Union man Robinson
accurately predicted what would happen to the UK motor industry due to
lack of investment. He was so prophetic. The unions continually were
banging on about lack of investment hiring management companies to assess
the motor industry to get the companies and HMG to take notice.
Investment that would create growth and require the workforce to remain.

However they impeded any attempt to invest in machines to make productivity
better, even when the market was shrinking because they cost too much.

Thatcher and Reagan were the demise of US & UK industry by not addressing
the key issues of investment and moving manufacturing off-shore.
Inner-city decay was a peculiar UK & US thing - only because of those two
clowns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0

Don't be silly, the industry was killing itself a long time before Thatcher
was elected.


Every time I hear that anti-union line I think...Daily Mail reader.

Wotz that?

In message m,
"dennis@home" writes


Thatcher and Reagan were the demise of US & UK industry by not
addressing the key issues of investment and moving manufacturing
off-shore. Inner-city decay was a peculiar UK & US thing - only
because of those two clowns.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0

Don't be silly, the industry was killing itself a long time before
Thatcher was elected.


Every time I hear that anti-union line I think...Daily Mail reader.

Wotz that?



Ooh - bum fight between drivel and dennis


--
geoff

On Thu, 8 Dec 2011 17:53:06 -0800 (PST), thirty-six
wrote:

On Dec 8, 4:49*pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"js.b1" wrote in message

...
On Dec 6, 5:34 pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

One automotive engineer, not mechanic, said the best thing is use the
likes
of Mobil 1 oil and a high quality oil filter that grabs particals of
smaller

Actually since about 2004 Mobil 1 is no longer a true fully synthetic.
.

I think gear oil is neglected especially as it lubricates the diff and drive
shafts as well. *How sensitive is gear oil to extended changes? *Is fully
synthetic gear oil superior. I would assume so as it would take more to
break it down.

Garages will top up via the vent plug so overfilling the box. Can't
remember the details, but the oil wont work as required when the box
is overfilled like this. It's better to have low oil than an
overfilled box. Next time I'll be using a molybdenum disulphide
loaded oil, probably a Rocol product. There's no need just now, needs
a few years (probably 4) and miles before the standard gearbox oil
starts showing effects of deterioration. The extreme pressure
additive in a standard gear oil is not particularly hard wearing.

A gearbox, particularly one in a vehicle built in the past 25 years or
so, might not need an EP oil, it might not even need a 'gearbox' oil
at all. Times move on, finishing processes are better. tolerances
more tightly controlled, debris traps are fitted such that gearbox oil
doesn't deteriorate in 4 years. 250,000 miles on a gearbox with a
change quality and noise level identical to that when new is possible
without any intervention for maintenance. Filling with molybdenum
disulphide loaded oil could quite easily leave you with a box that is
'lubricated' but despite that it is totally unusable. Filling with a
synthetic oil where it was not originally specified could also lead to
problems with the operation of the gearbox leading to more wear.
Refilling purely by 'viscosity' rather than a specific specification
of oil can also cause corrosion problems.

P.S. It is clear Dribble knows significantly less about oil than he
does about hacksaws.


--

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 09:14:23 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

You buy the oil to the viscosity recommended.

Only if you are a cretin

--

On Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:03:44 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Just found out that API have round symbol that means if it is on the can, it
was tested by them and meets the spec. Most do not get the oil tested by API
saying their oil meets the API spec. It cost $300,000 to test one car and
the oil, and more $$ for subsequent tests. Only the real big companies can
afford that. Small companies may never recoup the testing costs.

Time you read up about additives such as ZDDP.


--

On 10 Dec 2011 12:10:01 GMT, Huge wrote:

On 2011-12-08, The Other Mike wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 09:17:19 -0800 (PST), "js.b1"
wrote:

Personally I think corrosion protection has gone to the dogs, which
combined with thinner/thicker steels means the thin steels get used in
the less structural areas but where corrosion is more likely. This is
a recipe for disaster and why many modern cars may actually be
unrepairable (unrestorable!) past a certain point compared to those
previous.

But who would bother?

Fact of the day:

All the modern Mercs, Audis, VW's, Fords,

Tried to buy a Cosworth lately? Or a decent 3 litre Capri?

Vauxhalls,

Chevette HSR, Lotus Carlton.

Nissans,
Toyota's, Honda's, Renaults, Peugeots

The value of Pug 205 GTi's is already creeping up.

Perhaps you meant "mass market"?

My modern I actually meant 'new' or produced in the last 10 years.

There are times in the past where I have come across a car and
thought, that will be a classic, a landmark car. Some of them made
it, many didn't. But I find it difficult to think of a single one in
the past decade and a bit that even deserves consideration (with the
exception of numerous Alfa's and they do it only on looks rather than
engineering innovation and excellence)

--

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 14:12:01 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Millers make a oil specifically for Minis to cope with the gears in the
sump.

Why would you need a special oil for a few gears in your imaginary world?
Many engines already have gears that need lubrication.

The oil gets a hard time from the gears-in-the-sump, as on motorcycle
engines. Having said that, I've always taken the precaution of
changing bike oil at 3K and never had any oil-related troubles. Never
used special bike oil either, always a decent car oil of the right
viscosity for the bike.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2011 17:25:06 +0000 (UTC), Steve Firth
wrote:

About 25 years ago I did some work in an oil research lab around Oxfordshire.

Before you got sacked for being too lazy to push a broom around properly.

I suspect he was in fixing the bog plumbing.

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 21:42:26 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Don't be silly, the industry was killing itself a long time before
Thatcher was elected.

You Daily Mail reading half-wit it wasn't.

Maybe not in Germany or Japan, but it was commiting hari-kiri in the
UK and the US.

On Dec 13, 12:34*am, The Other Mike
wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2011 17:53:06 -0800 (PST), thirty-six









wrote:
On Dec 8, 4:49*pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:
"js.b1" wrote in message

....
On Dec 6, 5:34 pm, "Doctor Drivel" wrote:

One automotive engineer, not mechanic, said the best thing is use the
likes
of Mobil 1 oil and a high quality oil filter that grabs particals of
smaller

Actually since about 2004 Mobil 1 is no longer a true fully synthetic.
.

I think gear oil is neglected especially as it lubricates the diff and drive
shafts as well. *How sensitive is gear oil to extended changes? *Is fully
synthetic gear oil superior. I would assume so as it would take more to
break it down.

Garages will top up via the vent plug so overfilling the box. *Can't
remember the details, but the oil wont work as required when the box
is overfilled like this. *It's better to have low oil than an
overfilled box. *Next time I'll be using a molybdenum disulphide
loaded oil, probably a Rocol product. *There's no need just now, needs
a few years (probably 4) and miles before the standard gearbox oil
starts showing effects of deterioration. *The extreme pressure
additive in a standard gear oil is not particularly hard wearing.

A gearbox, particularly one in a vehicle built in the past 25 years or
so, might not need an EP oil, it might not even need a 'gearbox' oil
at all. *Times move on, finishing processes are better. tolerances
more tightly controlled, debris traps are fitted such that gearbox oil
doesn't deteriorate in 4 years. *250,000 miles on a gearbox with a
change quality and noise level identical to that when new is possible
without any intervention for maintenance. * Filling with molybdenum
disulphide loaded oil could quite easily leave you with a box that is
'lubricated' *but despite that it is totally unusable.

How would it become unusable, drag racers have been using MoS2 for
years, with success, with drained gearboxes?

*Filling with a
synthetic oil where it was not originally specified could also lead to
problems with the operation of the gearbox leading to more wear.
Refilling purely by 'viscosity' *rather than a specific specification
of oil can also cause corrosion problems.

I'm not a fan of high viscocity 'box oil. If I was local delivery or
needing 100mph on the motorway every day then yes I'd fit the
recommended higher viscocity if summer was approaching. With mostly
light driving and the occasional burst of full torque (four seconds in
third) the lighter oils work better. Less noise, greater
acceleration and no baulking. The escalation of the cost of fuel to
the private driver makes the blindfolded approach comical.