On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:18:36 +0100, News
wrote:

In message , Mark
writes

Ours get too much homework now that must be done on the computer so
such a scheme would not work here I think.

Hmm. I tend to agree. Ours (10) has quite a lot of homework, some of
which must be done on the PC. I cannot help thinking, though, that he
has less hours at school than I did at that age, but I did not have
homework at primary school. Moving 'teaching time' from the teachers to
the parents? Perhaps I'm just an old cynic ...

Ours didn't get much homework at primary level (although they took
ages doing it[1]). They get a bit more to start with at secondary but
they get a /lot/ when they start their GCSE courses[2].

My kids get about the same amount of school time as I did IIRC.

[1] Trying to avoid doing it actually.
[2] I think the school should gradually increase the amount of
homework, rather than suddenly.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:12:55 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Unfortunately with the age of ours (3, 5 & 7), by the time shopping,
homework, baths/showers, eating, etc. are fitted in, there's not really
enough time before bed for them to use one computer consecutively.

Shopping? Everyday?
They get a lot of home work at that age? The 3 year old?

I must admit I was rather annoyed that the school set homework for our 7
year old that involved using the Internet to research the differences in
how the rich and poor lived in Tudor times.

I don't like this assumption that schools seem to make that every
household has access to the internet. There are households around
here that don't. Some because they can't afford it (even the local
community ISP at £8/month) or because they are too far from the
exchange for ADSL to work. Dialup speeds aren't much use these days
on the web...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 09:12:25 +0100, Mark wrote:

[2] I think the school should gradually increase the amount of
homework, rather than suddenly.

I agree, I think No.1 Daughter is going to have a shock next year.
Currently she manages to get the majority of her home work done at
school. She certainly doesn't do much here but her report for all
subjects always has WTTEO "home work done well and on time".

She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at the
end of Year 9. I have a sneaky feeling she has yet to come across
anything that has really been "difficult".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 09:59:46 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

I don't like this assumption that schools seem to make that every
household has access to the internet. There are households around
here that don't. Some because they can't afford it (even the local
community ISP at £8/month) or because they are too far from the
exchange for ADSL to work. Dialup speeds aren't much use these days
on the web...

+1. Schools don't seem to get this at all.

They make token efforts to cater for non-internet users but it is
inadequate IME.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 10:18:11 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 09:12:25 +0100, Mark wrote:

[2] I think the school should gradually increase the amount of
homework, rather than suddenly.

I agree, I think No.1 Daughter is going to have a shock next year.
Currently she manages to get the majority of her home work done at
school. She certainly doesn't do much here but her report for all
subjects always has WTTEO "home work done well and on time".

My kids are similar. TBH I am dissappointed at how high some of the
marks they get for homework that they could do a lot better.

She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at the
end of Year 9. I have a sneaky feeling she has yet to come across
anything that has really been "difficult".

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100, Mark wrote:

She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at
the
end of Year 9.

Y9! Yikes, that's early.

I said she was bright... It's the only one she is doing this year,
there was talk at the beging of the year about English and Science as
well but they haven't happened. I expect they will be next year...

The lad is in Year 6 and off the scale as far a Science is concerned
and way up on Maths and English(*1). I think the teachers put him at
Level 5(*2) but they aren't allowed to put that down on any of the
paper work! They are going to get some Key Stage 3 test papers for
him to have a go at...

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Thanks, interesting. I don't think our school is looking to massage
the figures. They do carry on with Maths and few other subjects to AS
level after pupils have got their GCSE.

This is key:

"If any students are to be entered early, they must be confidently
predicted to achieve an A*."

A* is perhaps a little high but just allowing a C is daft. At very
high confidence of getting at least a B should be the criteria.

(*1) Apart from hand writting, his brain works so fast he can't write
fast enough to keep up and he loses his thread. Bung him in front of
a keyboard and it flows out...

(*2) Level somthing, I haven't got my head around these levels and at
what age and what level is "normal".

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 18/05/2011 11:40, Mark wrote:

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

I did O-level in the equivalent of Y9 - no problem.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 15:04:50 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100, Mark wrote:

She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at
the
end of Year 9.

Y9! Yikes, that's early.

I said she was bright... It's the only one she is doing this year,
there was talk at the beging of the year about English and Science as
well but they haven't happened. I expect they will be next year...

However bright the student is I am surprised that the school could
have taught the full GCSE syllabus by then -- unless they have an
unusually high teacher/pupil ratio.

The lad is in Year 6 and off the scale as far a Science is concerned
and way up on Maths and English(*1). I think the teachers put him at
Level 5(*2) but they aren't allowed to put that down on any of the
paper work! They are going to get some Key Stage 3 test papers for
him to have a go at...

AFAIK Primary schools can only measure up to level 5.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Thanks, interesting. I don't think our school is looking to massage
the figures. They do carry on with Maths and few other subjects to AS
level after pupils have got their GCSE.

This is key:

"If any students are to be entered early, they must be confidently
predicted to achieve an A*."

A* is perhaps a little high but just allowing a C is daft. At very
high confidence of getting at least a B should be the criteria.

Personally I think it should be an A. Better get an A in YR11 than a
B earlier IMHO.

(*1) Apart from hand writting, his brain works so fast he can't write
fast enough to keep up and he loses his thread. Bung him in front of
a keyboard and it flows out...

(*2) Level somthing, I haven't got my head around these levels and at
what age and what level is "normal".

Average is L4 at the end of primary school IIRC.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 18/05/2011 16:47, Mark wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2011 15:04:50 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100, Mark wrote:

She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at
the
end of Year 9.

Y9! Yikes, that's early.

I said she was bright... It's the only one she is doing this year,
there was talk at the beging of the year about English and Science as
well but they haven't happened. I expect they will be next year...

However bright the student is I am surprised that the school could
have taught the full GCSE syllabus by then -- unless they have an
unusually high teacher/pupil ratio.

The lad is in Year 6 and off the scale as far a Science is concerned
and way up on Maths and English(*1). I think the teachers put him at
Level 5(*2) but they aren't allowed to put that down on any of the
paper work! They are going to get some Key Stage 3 test papers for
him to have a go at...

AFAIK Primary schools can only measure up to level 5.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Thanks, interesting. I don't think our school is looking to massage
the figures. They do carry on with Maths and few other subjects to AS
level after pupils have got their GCSE.

This is key:

"If any students are to be entered early, they must be confidently
predicted to achieve an A*."

A* is perhaps a little high but just allowing a C is daft. At very
high confidence of getting at least a B should be the criteria.

Personally I think it should be an A. Better get an A in YR11 than a
B earlier IMHO.

Agreed, but I'd suggest if that happens, there's time for another go.

On 18/05/2011 16:06, Clive George wrote:
On 18/05/2011 11:40, Mark wrote:

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

I did O-level in the equivalent of Y9 - no problem.

Mark, I suggest youget some of the old O level papers. They really were
harder. (My son told me this after doing some O level papers during his
A level maths course... and it's not just the manual arithmetic)

Andy

On 18/05/2011 09:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:12:55 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Unfortunately with the age of ours (3, 5& 7), by the time shopping,
homework, baths/showers, eating, etc. are fitted in, there's not really
enough time before bed for them to use one computer consecutively.

Shopping? Everyday?

Not quite, but usually three weekday nights - it may not be much, milk,
cheese, fruit, bread, things like that, but it takes time to go out and
get it. With the amount of milk we consume, we can only get two days's
supply upright in the fridge and we've had too many incidences of leaks
when they're lying down. The milkman only delivers after we've gone to
work for the day With the rest other items, we do try and plan ahead,
but changes of finishing time from work tend to mean last minute changes
of what we're eating and if we kept stocks in, we'd end up throwing too
much away. It doesn't help that the school have a habit of letting us
know at the last minute that the kids will need something particular for
school the next morning!

They get a lot of home work at that age? The 3 year old?

The 7 year old gets three to four nights a week, the 5 year old gets a
couple of nights and all three of them get books to read to us or for us
to read to them.

I must admit I was rather annoyed that the school set homework for our 7
year old that involved using the Internet to research the differences in
how the rich and poor lived in Tudor times.

I don't like this assumption that schools seem to make that every
household has access to the internet. There are households around
here that don't. Some because they can't afford it (even the local
community ISP at £8/month) or because they are too far from the
exchange for ADSL to work. Dialup speeds aren't much use these days
on the web...

I can agree with that - we actually had no internet for three and a half
weeks, but that was because of a line fault.

There's no problem with ADSL around here. In fact they've installed FTTC
throughout most of the area, much of which already had cable. We are
unfortunate in that they've not installed FTTC yet and we're one of the
few roads without cable, but we can get over 7Mb/s on ADSL, so no major
complaints.

I know there are some schemes for those that cannot afford to pay for
internet at home, but I don't know what or how good they are.

SteveW

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100 Mark wrote :
She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at the
end of Year 9. I have a sneaky feeling she has yet to come across
anything that has really been "difficult".

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Not quite sure how Y9 translates, but in my 1960s grammar school the
top stream (overall, no streaming by subjects) took O-level Maths at
the Jan sitting of the fourth year (i.e. after 3 years and one term at
GS) and then Additional Maths in June (which would normally mean an
extra year's teaching).

I still remember that out of 32 pupils in my cohort the Maths grades
(in an era when pass grades were A-E) were 24 A, 4 B and 4 C. Mr
Steffens was one of those really gifted teachers who knew how to
combine discipline and kindness to bring out what his not always
enthusiastic boys could achieve; he started as a pupil at the school,
went to uni, came back as a teacher c.1927 and stayed there until he
retired. I might not have appreciated him at the time, but I owe him a
great debt.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on', Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.eurobeam.co.uk www.greentram.com

On Thu, 19 May 2011 08:43:02 +1000, Tony Bryer wrote:

Not quite sure how Y9 translates,

3rd year at secondary school.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 19 May 2011 08:43:02 +1000, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100 Mark wrote :
She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at the
end of Year 9. I have a sneaky feeling she has yet to come across
anything that has really been "difficult".

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Not quite sure how Y9 translates, but in my 1960s grammar school the
top stream (overall, no streaming by subjects) took O-level Maths at
the Jan sitting of the fourth year (i.e. after 3 years and one term at
GS) and then Additional Maths in June (which would normally mean an
extra year's teaching).

I still remember that out of 32 pupils in my cohort the Maths grades
(in an era when pass grades were A-E) were 24 A, 4 B and 4 C.

In the mid 60s when I did my O-level GCEs the grading was 1 to 9. 1 to
6 were passes and 7 to 9 failed.

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 May 2011 08:43:02 +1000, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100 Mark wrote :
She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at the
end of Year 9. I have a sneaky feeling she has yet to come across
anything that has really been "difficult".

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Not quite sure how Y9 translates, but in my 1960s grammar school the
top stream (overall, no streaming by subjects) took O-level Maths at
the Jan sitting of the fourth year (i.e. after 3 years and one term at
GS) and then Additional Maths in June (which would normally mean an
extra year's teaching).

I still remember that out of 32 pupils in my cohort the Maths grades
(in an era when pass grades were A-E) were 24 A, 4 B and 4 C.

In the mid 60s when I did my O-level GCEs the grading was 1 to 9. 1 to
6 were passes and 7 to 9 failed.

Its the way they were graded that was different to now and is what made
older O levels harder.

It was assumed that the pupils taking O levels didn't vary much from year to
year and that any variation in the marking was due to the questions being
easier or harder ( I think this was and is a valid assumption). Then the
results were scaled so that the top 105 got a 1, the bottom 40% failed, and
various bands in between (I also think this was a valid way to mark them).

Now some group of teachers decides how hard the questions are and if lots of
kids pass its because the teaching is far better than it was (the only
evidence being the pass rate for the questions they set BTW). If lots of
kids fail then they decide they have made a mistake and make allowances for
the error in the exam papers.

The same applies to A levels except they even dropped the old S level exams
which put you in the top 2% or 5% if you got a 1 or a 2.

As it is now you get nearly everyone passing even though a lot of them don't
have a clue. You also get the situation where 4A's at A level is going to
get you into the best Unis as they now run their own entrance exams to
actually separate out the really good from the chaff and most of the other
Unis don't go on grades but use the actual marks as the grades are of no use
to grade the applicants.

Then there is the increasing bias of course work influencing grades, the
Unis and employers have no idea how much effort a pupil has put into that
course work, or even if the pupil is the one that has done the work.

There are a lot of bright kids out there but the GCSE and A level exams do
not separate them from the chaff and it really is easier to get grade A now
despite what the educators will insist on telling everyone. Employers now
this and they are more important than the educators ATM.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:31:28 +0100, Andy Champ
wrote:

On 18/05/2011 16:06, Clive George wrote:
On 18/05/2011 11:40, Mark wrote:

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

I did O-level in the equivalent of Y9 - no problem.

Mark, I suggest youget some of the old O level papers. They really were
harder. (My son told me this after doing some O level papers during his
A level maths course... and it's not just the manual arithmetic)

I did Maths O Level and lots of others, thanks ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:36:28 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 18/05/2011 09:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:12:55 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Unfortunately with the age of ours (3, 5& 7), by the time shopping,
homework, baths/showers, eating, etc. are fitted in, there's not really
enough time before bed for them to use one computer consecutively.

Shopping? Everyday?

Not quite, but usually three weekday nights - it may not be much, milk,
cheese, fruit, bread, things like that, but it takes time to go out and
get it. With the amount of milk we consume, we can only get two days's
supply upright in the fridge and we've had too many incidences of leaks
when they're lying down. The milkman only delivers after we've gone to
work for the day

Get a bigger fridge ;-)

We do a weekly shop at the supermarket. Normally we avoid doing
"between" shops. We always have some quick meals since people often
go out early in the evenings.

With the rest other items, we do try and plan ahead,
but changes of finishing time from work tend to mean last minute changes
of what we're eating and if we kept stocks in, we'd end up throwing too
much away. It doesn't help that the school have a habit of letting us
know at the last minute that the kids will need something particular for
school the next morning!

We have the latter problem too. However, if the school gives us too
little notice, then they don't get[1]. If sufficient parents do this
then maybe the school will learn to give more notice.

They get a lot of home work at that age? The 3 year old?

The 7 year old gets three to four nights a week, the 5 year old gets a
couple of nights and all three of them get books to read to us or for us
to read to them.

Private school?

I must admit I was rather annoyed that the school set homework for our 7
year old that involved using the Internet to research the differences in
how the rich and poor lived in Tudor times.

I don't like this assumption that schools seem to make that every
household has access to the internet. There are households around
here that don't. Some because they can't afford it (even the local
community ISP at £8/month) or because they are too far from the
exchange for ADSL to work. Dialup speeds aren't much use these days
on the web...

I can agree with that - we actually had no internet for three and a half
weeks, but that was because of a line fault.

There's no problem with ADSL around here. In fact they've installed FTTC
throughout most of the area, much of which already had cable. We are
unfortunate in that they've not installed FTTC yet and we're one of the
few roads without cable, but we can get over 7Mb/s on ADSL, so no major
complaints.

I know there are some schemes for those that cannot afford to pay for
internet at home, but I don't know what or how good they are.

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.

[1] Although, for us, it's often the kids that forget to tell us.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

Mark wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:36:28 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 18/05/2011 09:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:12:55 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Unfortunately with the age of ours (3, 5& 7), by the time shopping,
homework, baths/showers, eating, etc. are fitted in, there's not really
enough time before bed for them to use one computer consecutively.

Shopping? Everyday?

Not quite, but usually three weekday nights - it may not be much, milk,
cheese, fruit, bread, things like that, but it takes time to go out and
get it. With the amount of milk we consume, we can only get two days's
supply upright in the fridge and we've had too many incidences of leaks
when they're lying down. The milkman only delivers after we've gone to
work for the day

Get a bigger fridge ;-)

We do a weekly shop at the supermarket. Normally we avoid doing
"between" shops. We always have some quick meals since people often
go out early in the evenings.

+1

Best thing I ever did was get a big decent fridge that holds at 4C reliably
(meaning I add +1 to +3 days to the expiry date depending on food type).

I've also found that doing a weekly internet shop from Ocado isn't any more
expensive than Tescos or Sainsburys (if you choose reasonably - lots is
Tesco price matched anyway). But the expirey dates are definately longer on
average IME than Sainsburys, so it is quite possible to run for a week at a
time. with zero intermediate shopping trips.

Cheers

Tim
--
Tim Watts

On Thu, 19 May 2011 10:16:28 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Mark wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:36:28 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 18/05/2011 09:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:12:55 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

Unfortunately with the age of ours (3, 5& 7), by the time shopping,
homework, baths/showers, eating, etc. are fitted in, there's not really
enough time before bed for them to use one computer consecutively.

Shopping? Everyday?

Not quite, but usually three weekday nights - it may not be much, milk,
cheese, fruit, bread, things like that, but it takes time to go out and
get it. With the amount of milk we consume, we can only get two days's
supply upright in the fridge and we've had too many incidences of leaks
when they're lying down. The milkman only delivers after we've gone to
work for the day

Get a bigger fridge ;-)

We do a weekly shop at the supermarket. Normally we avoid doing
"between" shops. We always have some quick meals since people often
go out early in the evenings.

+1

Best thing I ever did was get a big decent fridge that holds at 4C reliably
(meaning I add +1 to +3 days to the expiry date depending on food type).

I've also found that doing a weekly internet shop from Ocado isn't any more
expensive than Tescos or Sainsburys (if you choose reasonably - lots is
Tesco price matched anyway). But the expirey dates are definately longer on
average IME than Sainsburys, so it is quite possible to run for a week at a
time. with zero intermediate shopping trips.

Haven't tried Ocado (only recently started a service around here) but
Tescos and Sainsburys were poor. Had a far higher instance of
out-of-stock items than in store and some perishables had very short
dates.

How much is delivery costs from Ocado?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

On 19/05/2011 10:00, Mark wrote:

I know there are some schemes for those that cannot afford to pay for
internet at home, but I don't know what or how good they are.

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.


Some schemes will heavily subsidise both computer and broadband cost,
but then the kids computer is hogged by the rest of the family.

e.g.

One brother is active in downloading torrents of illegaly transferred
films killing the ISP monthly bandwidth quota, the other is running an
eBay business passing on hooky stuff, the mother is having an breakdown
/ affair out on facebook (which will lead to divorce), the father has
this thing visiting several 'websites of the night', and the trojan
zombie process inside the machine has it's own surfin' and emailing
habits no one can control.

"A zombie ate my homework" will be the only fib the kid will be allowed
to tell teacher.

--
Adrian C

Mark wrote:

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.


Indeed.

Our 7 year old is now expected to get "computer time" at home.

I'm currently rebuilding a knackered laptop with Xubuntu LTS which means
bits of the school learning web won't work, but that's just too bad.

They'll get LibreOffice .doc files or PDF and it's their problem if they
don't open at school. Any format that comes here that doesn't work will
result in a note back.

I refuse to have any MS in the house and if it weren't for this old laptop,
she'd be unlucky because I generally don't let the kids near my good one
(too much previous abuse).

To be honest, she's not doing anything that can't be done with a question
sheet and a bit of paper anyway...

--
Tim Watts

Mark wrote:


Haven't tried Ocado (only recently started a service around here) but
Tescos and Sainsburys were poor. Had a far higher instance of
out-of-stock items than in store and some perishables had very short
dates.

IME (and I do know Ocado supply from a giant warehouse [mine comes from
Dartford], not by pushing a trolley round the local Waitrose) the supply/OOS
ratio is excellent. Genenerally 1-2 substitutions (mostly sane) per week
(sometimes none) and a failure to supply an item maybe once in the last 3
months.

They did have some issues with packing badly and squashing stuff - but I
complained, they refunded and said they could trace the exact person who
packed my lot and do some further training. Few problems since.

I do like the way they pack into 3 different colourcoded bags too - green
for frozen, red for fridge and purple for everythign else. Bloke even brings
it into the kitchen if you want (that's an official service).

How much is delivery costs from Ocado?

Anywhere from expensive (6+ quid) to completely free. Generally a few quid
late evenings around 9pm, free at some unpopular times midday weekdays and
late at night and mentally expensive on Sundays. The slots are one hour wide
and they stick to them too (sometimes they ring ahead and ask if they can be
early, but if that's not acceptable, they will not complain (at least to the
customer) about sitting in the van doing nothing and coming at the appointed
time.

I like them for their sense of customer service - and the fact they have a
good iPhone and android app.

Cheers,

Tim

--
Tim Watts

On Thu, 19 May 2011 10:40:36 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Mark wrote:

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.


Indeed.

Our 7 year old is now expected to get "computer time" at home.

I'm currently rebuilding a knackered laptop with Xubuntu LTS which means
bits of the school learning web won't work, but that's just too bad.

I've got windows and linux PCs at home but the kids will always prefer
the windows one if they can. They complain the linux PC does not work
properly but can never demonstrate the problem.

They'll get LibreOffice .doc files or PDF and it's their problem if they
don't open at school. Any format that comes here that doesn't work will
result in a note back.

I had a brief look at LibreOffice but it didn't seem to work very well
(menu options grayed out for no obvious reason).

I refuse to have any MS in the house and if it weren't for this old laptop,
she'd be unlucky because I generally don't let the kids near my good one
(too much previous abuse).

To be honest, she's not doing anything that can't be done with a question
sheet and a bit of paper anyway...

I don't think they have paper at schools any more ;-)
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

Tim Watts wrote:
Mark wrote:


Haven't tried Ocado (only recently started a service around here) but
Tescos and Sainsburys were poor. Had a far higher instance of
out-of-stock items than in store and some perishables had very short
dates.

IME (and I do know Ocado supply from a giant warehouse [mine comes from
Dartford], not by pushing a trolley round the local Waitrose) the supply/OOS
ratio is excellent. Genenerally 1-2 substitutions (mostly sane) per week
(sometimes none) and a failure to supply an item maybe once in the last 3
months.

They did have some issues with packing badly and squashing stuff - but I
complained, they refunded and said they could trace the exact person who
packed my lot and do some further training. Few problems since.

I do like the way they pack into 3 different colourcoded bags too - green
for frozen, red for fridge and purple for everythign else. Bloke even brings
it into the kitchen if you want (that's an official service).

How much is delivery costs from Ocado?

Anywhere from expensive (6+ quid) to completely free. Generally a few quid
late evenings around 9pm, free at some unpopular times midday weekdays and
late at night and mentally expensive on Sundays. The slots are one hour wide
and they stick to them too (sometimes they ring ahead and ask if they can be
early, but if that's not acceptable, they will not complain (at least to the
customer) about sitting in the van doing nothing and coming at the appointed
time.


I tried em, and they had so little stock it wasn't worth it.

Waitrose direct is better.

Mark wrote:

I don't think they have paper at schools any more ;-)

Not even in the toilets?

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.


Indeed.

Our 7 year old is now expected to get "computer time" at home.

I'm currently rebuilding a knackered laptop with Xubuntu LTS which means
bits of the school learning web won't work, but that's just too bad.

They'll get LibreOffice .doc files or PDF and it's their problem if they
don't open at school. Any format that comes here that doesn't work will
result in a note back.

I refuse to have any MS in the house and if it weren't for this old
laptop,
she'd be unlucky because I generally don't let the kids near my good one
(too much previous abuse).

That's just mean, its about freedom and if someone wants to use windows they
should be able to, just as someone should be free to use linux.

However you can't expect others to change their preferences just because you
can't work with them, its up to you to change yours if you need/want the
stuff.


I wonder if you refuse to buy petrol or use motor vehicles because the oil
companies make profits?
Or refuse mains electricity and water because they are run by profit making
monopolies?
Maybe refuse drugs because the companies make huge profits.
Why refuse to use M$ stuff, its just products from another company.
They aren't even expensive.


To be honest, she's not doing anything that can't be done with a question
sheet and a bit of paper anyway...

--
Tim Watts

In message , Mark
writes
On Thu, 19 May 2011 10:16:28 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:


I've also found that doing a weekly internet shop from Ocado isn't any more
expensive than Tescos or Sainsburys (if you choose reasonably - lots is
Tesco price matched anyway). But the expirey dates are definately longer on
average IME than Sainsburys, so it is quite possible to run for a week at a
time. with zero intermediate shopping trips.

Haven't tried Ocado (only recently started a service around here) but
Tescos and Sainsburys were poor. Had a far higher instance of
out-of-stock items than in store and some perishables had very short
dates.

How much is delivery costs from Ocado?

I've used Tesco, Sainsburys and Ocado quite a bit over the years and
seemed to have settled on Ocado mostly.

a big advantgae is that because they work out of a warehouse they have
much better stock control and so it's uncommon for something to be out
of stock after you ordered it (the website tells you if something is out
of stock at ordering time). The website gives you minimum days for the
useby date etc. And as Tim says it doesn't really work out anymore
expensive on the whole.

Though there are some things we will get elsewhere oocasionally - for
some reason they don't seel big bags for pasta for instance.

Delivery costs range from £0.00 (if you are lucky) up to £7 I think.
Depending on day and time. I guess a typical averge charge would be
around 3.50 - 4? (min £75 order - there is a min charge of £3 on orders
of £40 - 75)

They also do a pre paid delivery scheme called delivery pass for 6.99
mnth or 69.99 year. Which is pretty good if you use it a lot - it's
probably break even after a couple of shops (or even less) unless you
can always get the very cheapest slots. Free's you up on delivery slot
choice and a min order of just £40
--
Chris French

On 19/05/2011 11:57, dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.


Indeed.

Our 7 year old is now expected to get "computer time" at home.

I'm currently rebuilding a knackered laptop with Xubuntu LTS which means
bits of the school learning web won't work, but that's just too bad.


They'll get LibreOffice .doc files or PDF and it's their problem if they
don't open at school. Any format that comes here that doesn't work will
result in a note back.

I refuse to have any MS in the house and if it weren't for this old
laptop,
she'd be unlucky because I generally don't let the kids near my good one
(too much previous abuse).

That's just mean,

It certainly sounds that way.

Mark wrote:


I've got windows and linux PCs at home but the kids will always prefer
the windows one if they can. They complain the linux PC does not work
properly but can never demonstrate the problem.

I've pre-indoctrinated mine that linux has a cool penguin with machine guns:

http://plf.zarb.org/logo4.jpg

and MS Windows is just gay and gets ripped to bits by "bad things on the
Internet"

They believe me - I just have to give them a working system to keep it that
way

They'll get LibreOffice .doc files or PDF and it's their problem if they
don't open at school. Any format that comes here that doesn't work will
result in a note back.

I had a brief look at LibreOffice but it didn't seem to work very well
(menu options grayed out for no obvious reason).

No problems with the pre-packaged one in Ubuntu 11.04 (latest) not with
OpenOffice in previous versions. Are you hand installing it - under what OS?

To be honest, she's not doing anything that can't be done with a question
sheet and a bit of paper anyway...

I don't think they have paper at schools any more ;-)

Yep...

--
Tim Watts

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I tried em, and they had so little stock it wasn't worth it.

That must be warehouse dependant I guess. Even Dartford doesn't have the
full range that you see in store.

Waitrose direct is better.

I have heard of that - might investigate further. But does it suffer from
the "packed in store half of the items are missing" syndrome - especially
for orders where the pick is say late afternoon after all the store vistors
have cleaned out the shelves and the next delivery hasn't come yet?

Seemed to be the problem with Sainsburys...

--
Tim Watts

dennis@home wrote:


I refuse to have any MS in the house and if it weren't for this old
laptop,
she'd be unlucky because I generally don't let the kids near my good one
(too much previous abuse).

That's just mean, its about freedom and if someone wants to use windows
they should be able to, just as someone should be free to use linux.

My house, my laptop, my network - end of. When they can pay for and set up
their own MS Windows OS they can. If they get too many
trojans/zombies/virus, I will cut their network connection off until they
learn

In the meantime, they get what they are given.

It's all about educating them in the ways of the light - darkness will find
it's own way to advertise itself - having used at least one other system,
they will be in a position of knowledge to make an informed choice.

However you can't expect others to change their preferences just because
you can't work with them, its up to you to change yours if you need/want
the stuff.

No it isn't. If the school expect stuff to run on *my* systems, it is up to
them to provide material in open and/or supported formats. I'll make the
effort to support as many formats as I can but if it is totally MS only,
forget it.

It's not exactly an insoluable problem. If they can't work here, the kids
can stay at school and use their computers. I am not paying for and wasting
time maintaining sub rate OSes which risk filling my networks with crap just
to keep them happy. Again, end of.


I wonder if you refuse to buy petrol or use motor vehicles because the oil
companies make profits?

No - because I buy oil that meets the standard required by my engine. There
are several suppliers of each standard - I have a choice.

Or refuse mains electricity and water because they are run by profit
making monopolies?

If someone offered me free reliable electricity I'd fecking take it.
Wouldn't you? Even more so if the paying suppliers had erratic suplly full
of spikes and brown outs which knackered my equipment (spot on analogy BTW).

Everyone offers me "standard electricity at 230V/50Hz nominal" so it all
works and I buy the cheapest.

You are missing the point - I expect schools to work with material that
supports open standards or has viewers for a variety of systems so I get a
choice of systems to run it on.

Don't forget MAC only families - same issues as linux or *BSD.

The paying is a secondary aspect - but since I have no other reason to pay
MS money, why should I start now just because the school has a bent website
or ships me some unfathomable file format?

At least most of the .doc and .xls stuff works OK with LibreOffice, but if
it doesn't, words will be had - particularly as the fix is trivial and free
for them (save as older format).

Maybe refuse drugs because the companies make huge profits.
Why refuse to use M$ stuff, its just products from another company.
They aren't even expensive.


You can stop now...


--
Tim Watts

On Thu, 19 May 2011 12:22:04 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:



I've got windows and linux PCs at home but the kids will always prefer
the windows one if they can. They complain the linux PC does not work
properly but can never demonstrate the problem.

I've pre-indoctrinated mine that linux has a cool penguin with machine
guns:

http://plf.zarb.org/logo4.jpg

and MS Windows is just gay and gets ripped to bits by "bad things on the
Internet"

Mine likes the BSD daemon. All I have to do now is find a nice picture of
one, machine gunning a penguin!

Younger son has both Windows and BSD. He mainly uses Windows just for
iTunes...
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

stuart noble wrote:

On 19/05/2011 11:57, dennis@home wrote:


"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
Mark wrote:

Neither do I. I doubt they'd also pay for a computer.


Indeed.

Our 7 year old is now expected to get "computer time" at home.

I'm currently rebuilding a knackered laptop with Xubuntu LTS which means
bits of the school learning web won't work, but that's just too bad.


They'll get LibreOffice .doc files or PDF and it's their problem if they
don't open at school. Any format that comes here that doesn't work will
result in a note back.

I refuse to have any MS in the house and if it weren't for this old
laptop,
she'd be unlucky because I generally don't let the kids near my good one
(too much previous abuse).

That's just mean,

It certainly sounds that way.

Not really - I depend on my laptop for work. It is new and not cheap. They
are 5 and 7 years old. The matter would be different if they were at
secondary school needing to do "serious" work.

My son has a long history of not being careful with electronics (he is
little, it is expected) and I usually need my laptop in the evenings so it's
availablity is limited anyway. SWMBO's laptop is work owned so they cannot
touch that either by orders of her work.

When they are at secondary school I will probably buy them proper systems
(or better, get them to make some out of parts).

For now, I am not willing to spend a lot of money on something which is
essentially a toy. Luckily I have 2 rather broken[1] but functional ancient
laptops that will do and will just about run xubuntu well (they would choke
on Windows 7 and even XP would slow one down, the other is an eeePC so is
very limited).

[1] Dead batteries, shot trackpads, hinges about to fail - but viable on a
desk plugged into the wall with a little travel mouse plugged in.

The point I'm making is do you expect really poor families to shell out for
primary school age kids?

I'm sorry if you find this offensive, but I am equally annoyed by the
assumption all households are tooled up for such provisions at primary
school age.

Cheers

Tim


--
Tim Watts

On Thu, 19 May 2011 10:56:15 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Mark wrote:
IME (and I do know Ocado supply from a giant warehouse [mine comes from
Dartford]

Mine does too (East Kent rather than deepest Sussex here!)

How much is delivery costs from Ocado?

Anywhere from expensive (6+ quid) to completely free. Generally a few
quid late evenings around 9pm, free at some unpopular times midday
weekdays and late at night and mentally expensive on Sundays. The slots
are one hour wide and they stick to them too (sometimes they ring ahead
and ask if they can be early, but if that's not acceptable, they will
not complain (at least to the customer) about sitting in the van doing
nothing and coming at the appointed time.

We got the £99 yearly pass which means delivery is otherwise free (min
spend £40 but that's easy) at any time (bar a few Christmas days I
think). We generally have a delivery early evening (probably before
you're home, Tim...it only takes we 10 mins to get home from work (smug)).
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

dennis@home wrote:


In the mid 60s when I did my O-level GCEs the grading was 1 to 9. 1
to 6 were passes and 7 to 9 failed.

Its the way they were graded that was different to now and is what
made older O levels harder.

It was assumed that the pupils taking O levels didn't vary much from
year to year and that any variation in the marking was due to the
questions being easier or harder ( I think this was and is a valid
assumption). Then the results were scaled so that the top 105 got a
1, the bottom 40% failed, and various bands in between (I also think
this was a valid way to mark them).

Now some group of teachers decides how hard the questions are and if
lots of kids pass its because the teaching is far better than it was
(the only evidence being the pass rate for the questions they set
BTW). If lots of kids fail then they decide they have made a mistake
and make allowances for the error in the exam papers.

The same applies to A levels except they even dropped the old S level
exams which put you in the top 2% or 5% if you got a 1 or a 2.

There was a newspaper a few years ago that gave 10 GCSE A pass students an O
level paper. They all failed as the syllabus had changed so much that the
CGSE puplis had not coverered what was in the O level papers.

There are a lot of bright kids out there but the GCSE and A level
exams do not separate them from the chaff and it really is easier to
get grade A now despite what the educators will insist on telling
everyone. Employers now this and they are more important than the
educators ATM.

It does seem that an A pass is now just a minimum requirement and you are
right, it does not sort the wheat from the chaff.

My girlfriends lads teacher has asked that I do not help with his maths as
"maths is not taught like that anymore".

--
Adam

Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 19 May 2011 10:56:15 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

Mark wrote:
IME (and I do know Ocado supply from a giant warehouse [mine comes from
Dartford]

Mine does too (East Kent rather than deepest Sussex here!)

How much is delivery costs from Ocado?

Anywhere from expensive (6+ quid) to completely free. Generally a few
quid late evenings around 9pm, free at some unpopular times midday
weekdays and late at night and mentally expensive on Sundays. The slots
are one hour wide and they stick to them too (sometimes they ring ahead
and ask if they can be early, but if that's not acceptable, they will
not complain (at least to the customer) about sitting in the van doing
nothing and coming at the appointed time.

We got the £99 yearly pass which means delivery is otherwise free (min
spend £40 but that's easy) at any time (bar a few Christmas days I
think).

Ooh - that is interesting... Will check.

We generally have a delivery early evening (probably before
you're home, Tim...it only takes we 10 mins to get home from work (smug)).

I'm home at 5:30-6pm most days these days - hehe

But I am also on the 6:40am train

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts wrote:

But I am also on the 6:40am train

What time does the 6:40am train actually leave in practice?

--
Adam

ARWadsworth wrote:

Tim Watts wrote:

But I am also on the 6:40am train

What time does the 6:40am train actually leave in practice?


Surprising, 6:40am on a bright dry warm[1] morning.

It usually gets fecked up somewhere in south London if it is going to go
wrong.

[1] If any of those conditions are not true, all bets are off of course -
the snow last winter shut our entire line down for 2 seperate ful weeks and
the rest of the time it ran like crap.

--
Tim Watts

On Thu, 19 May 2011 12:54:03 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

We got the £99 yearly pass which means delivery is otherwise free (min
spend £40 but that's easy) at any time (bar a few Christmas days I
think).

Ooh - that is interesting... Will check.

It's probably gone up now - not to mention the VAT rise. But still a good
deal. We do well out of Amazon Prime too!

We generally have a delivery early evening (probably before you're
home, Tim...it only takes we 10 mins to get home from work (smug)).

I'm home at 5:30-6pm most days these days - hehe

That's late for me...although it does depend. I can work from home quite
a bit, like today.

But I am also on the 6:40am train

We're up by then anyway...kids need to get the 7.35am to school...!



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

"dennis@home" wrote:
"Frank Erskine" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 May 2011 08:43:02 +1000, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:40:22 +0100 Mark wrote :
She's a bright lass though, sitting her GCSE Maths this year at the
end of Year 9. I have a sneaky feeling she has yet to come across
anything that has really been "difficult".

Y9! Yikes, that's early. Our school lets the brightest students do
GCSE Maths at the beginning of Y11. My eldest has also yet to come
across anything really difficult.

BTW There's a news article recently about how schools are putting
students in for Maths too early you may be interested in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13351933

Not quite sure how Y9 translates, but in my 1960s grammar school the
top stream (overall, no streaming by subjects) took O-level Maths at
the Jan sitting of the fourth year (i.e. after 3 years and one term at
GS) and then Additional Maths in June (which would normally mean an
extra year's teaching).

I still remember that out of 32 pupils in my cohort the Maths grades
(in an era when pass grades were A-E) were 24 A, 4 B and 4 C.

In the mid 60s when I did my O-level GCEs the grading was 1 to 9. 1 to
6 were passes and 7 to 9 failed.

Its the way they were graded that was different to now and is what made
older O levels harder.

It was assumed that the pupils taking O levels didn't vary much from year
to year and that any variation in the marking was due to the questions
being easier or harder ( I think this was and is a valid assumption).
Then the results were scaled so that the top 105 got a 1, the bottom 40%
failed, and various bands in between (I also think this was a valid way to mark them).

Now some group of teachers decides how hard the questions are and if lots
of kids pass its because the teaching is far better than it was (the only
evidence being the pass rate for the questions they set BTW). If lots of
kids fail then they decide they have made a mistake and make allowances
for the error in the exam papers.

The same applies to A levels except they even dropped the old S level
exams which put you in the top 2% or 5% if you got a 1 or a 2.

As it is now you get nearly everyone passing even though a lot of them
don't have a clue. You also get the situation where 4A's at A level is
going to get you into the best Unis as they now run their own entrance
exams to actually separate out the really good from the chaff and most of
the other Unis don't go on grades but use the actual marks as the grades
are of no use to grade the applicants.

Then there is the increasing bias of course work influencing grades, the
Unis and employers have no idea how much effort a pupil has put into that
course work, or even if the pupil is the one that has done the work.

There are a lot of bright kids out there but the GCSE and A level exams
do not separate them from the chaff and it really is easier to get grade
A now despite what the educators will insist on telling everyone.
Employers now this and they are more important than the educators ATM.

I spent a few years tutoring and demonstrating degree level stuff at uni,
when doing my post-grad stuff. The difference in ability between when I
started the course myself, an when I stopped demonstrating 8 years later
was amazing. I had to teach a group of radiology students what the gradient
of a line graph was, how to calculate it and what it actually meant. These
students had at least a good gcse grade, if not a level, in maths and where
doing a scientific degree. the grades these days are a useless way of
determining ability, which is a real shame. As are the results of letting
thousands of people leave the education system thinking they're very
intelligent when they are only average. Cue disappointment at best, a
wasted lifetime at worst.