Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:52:26 -0800 (PST), "G.Mo"
wrote:

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today??


The absolute worst thing about DIY stores is when they employ idiots
like you to ask damnfool questions on Usenet newsgroups.

You are asking us (unpaid) to do your job for you (paid). You aren't
the solution - you are the problem!

Now **** off like a good little boy, and stop wasting everyone's time.

G.Mo
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 13:52

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Don't know about advice, but I would like:

Sensible prices[1];

Stock in the right bins and levels maintained;

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.

Self scan that works;

Website as searchable as Screwfix's with estimate stock levels for your
local store. It's hard to make this 100% accurate but the damn store
computer is scanning everything sold, so it should be possible to feed that
back real time so you have a pretty good idea if your journey is going to be
a waste of time or not.

[1] as opposed to something being 10 quid for 5m and 8 quid for 10m of the
same, the like of which I've seen in B&Q on more than one occasion.

It's difficult - a good B&Q actually carries a pretty serious range of
products these days. Sometimes their prices are pretty keen by public store
standards (eg plaster, bulk aggregate).



--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

Bruce wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:52:26 -0800 (PST), "G.Mo"
wrote:
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today??


The absolute worst thing about DIY stores is when they employ idiots
like you to ask damnfool questions on Usenet newsgroups.


Exactly.

You are asking us (unpaid) to do your job for you (paid). You aren't
the solution - you are the problem!


If you were a DIYer yourself, you wouldn't have to ask.

Now **** off like a good little boy, and stop wasting everyone's time.

"G.Mo" wrote in message
...
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

I think that you should **** Off.

Adam

On Jan 14, 11:47*am, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:
"G.Mo" wrote in message

...

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

I think that you should **** Off.

Adam

Yup; the question has all the look of one of those 'Academics' (Or
'Expert Consultants') doing a study; when personally they don't know
the difference between two screwdrivers and a chisel!

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:25:39 +0000, Tim W wrote:
G.Mo
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 13:52

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Don't know about advice, but I would like:

Sensible prices[1];

Stock in the right bins and levels maintained;

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.
Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.


Self scan that works;

Website as searchable as Screwfix's with estimate stock levels for your
local store. It's hard to make this 100% accurate but the damn store
computer is scanning everything sold, so it should be possible to feed that
back real time so you have a pretty good idea if your journey is going to be
a waste of time or not.

[1] as opposed to something being 10 quid for 5m and 8 quid for 10m of the
same, the like of which I've seen in B&Q on more than one occasion.

It's difficult - a good B&Q actually carries a pretty serious range of
products these days. Sometimes their prices are pretty keen by public store
standards (eg plaster, bulk aggregate).

pete wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:25:39 +0000, Tim W wrote:

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.
Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.

That's the reason for the double-kiddie trolleys - keeps them (and the
merchandise) safe.

G.Mo wrote:
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Well, you could lurk here for a while and listen intelligently. But I
suppose that would be DIY and quite beyond your abilities.

--
djc

G.Mo wrote:
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Well, you could lurk here for a while and listen intelligently. But I
suppose that would be DIY and quite beyond your abilities.

pete
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 15:26

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:25:39 +0000, Tim W wrote:
G.Mo
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 13:52

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Don't know about advice, but I would like:

Sensible prices[1];

Stock in the right bins and levels maintained;

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.
Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.

Rubbish. Do you suggest I leave them at home on their own then (apart from
it being illegal)? Sometimes I have a hard time with some of the nonsense
that gets spouted here.

That is EXACTLY why I want a double kiddie trolley - so I can keep them
together and away from the pointy bits and out from under the feet of grumpy
old gits.



--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

S Viemeister
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 15:29

pete wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:25:39 +0000, Tim W wrote:

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.
Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.

That's the reason for the double-kiddie trolleys - keeps them (and the
merchandise) safe.

Luckily ToyRUs are next to the local BodgitQwik - so I nick one of theirs
instead. Point remains though.

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

"Tim W" wrote in message
...

Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.

Rubbish. Do you suggest I leave them at home on their own then (apart from
it being illegal)? Sometimes I have a hard time with some of the nonsense
that gets spouted here.

That is EXACTLY why I want a double kiddie trolley - so I can keep them
together and away from the pointy bits and out from under the feet of
grumpy
old gits.

Also, kids should learn how to be in places with pointy bits - just
cocooning them away is over-nannying them. Requires responsible parenting,
but refusing any kids isn't the way to get that to happen.

On Jan 14, 1:52*pm, "G.Mo" wrote:
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?


Seems like a sensible question to me.

Its easy to say better quality products, better range and better
prices, but obviously that wont happen. So all that remains is the
peripheral stuff, not what I'd want primarily, but I can see being
useful at times.

And that might be a publicly accesible computer that shows customers
how to do various projects, how to do load calcs, insulation calcs,
all the sort of things people need to know but dont always to do a
project. Remember one of the biggst obstacles to the general public
doing projects, and thus buying stock, is not knowing how to do it.

Add a self serve tea machine nearby, and if the stuff were actually
drinkable it might go somewhere towards encouraging people in. (ps the
only drinkable _and_ vending machine compatible type of tea is lapsang
souchong)

What do I personally want from the sheds? Nothing tbh. If the stock
were better quality it'd cost more, if it were cheaper it'd be even
worse, and if the range were better it'd all cost more.


NT

Clive George
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 16:15


Also, kids should learn how to be in places with pointy bits - just
cocooning them away is over-nannying them. Requires responsible parenting,
but refusing any kids isn't the way to get that to happen.

And I've never had any complaints taking them into the builders' merchants
(arguably less kid friendly than B&Q), but then they stay next to me and not
under the feet of the other punters and they don't tend to play with the
expanded metal mesh!

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

On 14/01/2010 15:45, djc wrote:
G.Mo wrote:
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Well, you could lurk here for a while and listen intelligently. But I
suppose that would be DIY and quite beyond your abilities.


OP works for (and has posted from) this company.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolff_Olins

OK, of the top of my head.

The rational of DIY is that *everything* should ideally be done by, and
for, the benefit of thyself.

To aid this efficiently procurement should be immediate and as close to
point of supply as possible with the minimum of middle-men accepting
commission, unless said middle-men are able to offer large bulk save
discounts and sensibly promote new products, backing up them with
support. Customers should be able to check stock levels remotely (web)
and at the store entrance with the absolute minimun of fuss. Computer
terminal.

Customers are to be assumed intelligent, and to be offered a range of
items that fall into categories. Not find a dumbed down display of the
single top selling (or promoted) item, and then later in the shop not
even find matching accessories for it.

Staff to be technically trained for this profession, with levels of
advertised certification. That works for the IT industry, so why not
stores? If not possible, then perhaps guide customers to somewhere
(books, other stores, forumns) where questions can be answered. Don't
really need glum looking ex-supermarket checkout operators.

Take a look into the tools or electricals section in Home Depot US, and
the helpfulness of their staff, and where B&Q is lacking will be pretty
plain.

On the other hand, Lifestyle showrooms where folk can walk around, take
a look at fancy arrangements and styles and _then_ have the work done by
someone else, aren't really DIY stores. They are IKEA. No need to
combine the concepts, or dumb one down tragically to fit with the other.

--
Adrian C

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:52:26 -0800, G.Mo wrote:

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Things I'd like:

Space, and lots of it. Room to swing a cat, or at least to get three
carts side by side in the aisles so there's room to get through even
when two people are browsing on either side.

A good *range* of products, from cheap to expensive.

Spares. One of my local places sells lawnmowers - but I can also get
blades, pulleys, belts, silencers, throttle cables etc. from them, too,
right there on the shelves, for the same price they are online.

Small items sold by weight. Aforementioned place has big bins with
different fixtures and fittings in; I can bag 'em myself right there,
weigh them with the provided scales, and pay up front. No acres of
overpriced packaging involved, and I can get the exact quantity I need.

Computers in the store for public use, so I can search for an item and
it'll tell me if they have it, how much it is, and *where* it is.

Things I don't like:

Self-service checkouts. Employ some real human beings to do the job far
quicker than I can do it myself, please, and without all the frustration
involved.

Staff pouncing on me every two minutes to see if they can help. If I
need help, I'll ask.

Lack of metal stock. Seriously, most places are happy to sell all manner
of tools for working with metal, but they're crap when it comes to
metal bars / rods / sheets.

cheers

Jules

On Jan 14, 1:52*pm, "G.Mo" wrote:
Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

You work for the company that "designed" the London 2012 Olympics
logo, do you?

It'll be interesting to watch you apply that level of skill to a DIY
store.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:39:44 -0800, NT wrote:
And that might be a publicly accesible computer that shows customers
how to do various projects, how to do load calcs, insulation calcs,
all the sort of things people need to know but dont always to do a
project. Remember one of the biggst obstacles to the general public
doing projects, and thus buying stock, is not knowing how to do it.

Don't they usually have a bunch of free leaflets for the common stuff
these days, and sell all manner of books for the more complex things?
Any computer in the store would have to be something that didn't get
hogged by a single user for long periods.

Add a self serve tea machine nearby, and if the stuff were actually
drinkable it might go somewhere towards encouraging people in.

Yeah, my favourite local one does that every once in a while along with
free hot dogs and biscuits.

Andy Dingley
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 16:22


A "home improvement store" is Focus. They sell lampshades. If they
sell nails, they're in packs of 10, for a fiver a pack.

This is one of my complaints with B&Q - small packs of sundry hardware cost
a fortune. And yet, I can also buy 3m packs of coving for less than the
builder's merchant next door, ditto plaster (OK, I just get fatigued by
endless haggling so I go where the marked price is cheaper if I can).

B&Q is somewhere in the middle,

Agree. Leave the lampshades and cushions and rugs to Homebase (who are
invariably nearby anyway). More space for proper goods then.

with the additional crap self scan
checkouts. B&Q don't do either thing well any more.

Self scan would be good if it worked like Tescos (ie worked). It is
potentially a winner if I don't have to stand in a queue just to buy 2
things. Alternatively, poach ALDI's till staff - they are at least 3 times
faster than B&Q's.



--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

Jules
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 17:21

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:52:26 -0800, G.Mo wrote:

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Things I'd like:

Space, and lots of it. Room to swing a cat, or at least to get three
carts side by side in the aisles so there's room to get through even
when two people are browsing on either side.

Comfy seats and free tea and a TV for the ladies? Not as sexist as it seems,
but I wish the larger womens clothing departments would provide exactly this
near the changing rooms, so I'm sure the reverse may be true on some
occasions!


A good *range* of products, from cheap to expensive.

Spares. One of my local places sells lawnmowers - but I can also get
blades, pulleys, belts, silencers, throttle cables etc. from them, too,
right there on the shelves, for the same price they are online.

Agree.

Small items sold by weight. Aforementioned place has big bins with
different fixtures and fittings in; I can bag 'em myself right there,
weigh them with the provided scales, and pay up front. No acres of
overpriced packaging involved, and I can get the exact quantity I need.

Agree.

Computers in the store for public use, so I can search for an item and
it'll tell me if they have it, how much it is, and *where* it is.

An extension of the "website that works" I mentioned (seems to be an
anathema to B&Q) - just need a few web kiosks dotted about then, no real
extra effort after the website's running properly.

Things I don't like:

Self-service checkouts. Employ some real human beings to do the job far
quicker than I can do it myself, please, and without all the frustration
involved.

Staff pouncing on me every two minutes to see if they can help. If I
need help, I'll ask.

Funny - they're never to be seen if you do want one.

Lack of metal stock. Seriously, most places are happy to sell all manner
of tools for working with metal, but they're crap when it comes to
metal bars / rods / sheets.

Mine's not bad, but the prices are hardly to die for (except of shock).

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

Product range in 2-3 grades only.
- Pro - Good - Disposable
- Screwdrivers from CK, Stanley & cheap clone
- Not a store sprawling in screwdrivers

Product range based on solutions.
- Marmox in various thicknesses
- Kingspan/Celotex in various thicknesses and half-sheets
- Prices to match the best online without 10-min order & £20 delivery

More cable options.
- BS7211 1.5mm for lighting re insulation level (50m & 100m)
- BS8436 1.5mm & 2.5mm (50m & 100m)
- If you extend a non-RCD circuit you a) need to add a RCD spur or b)
use BS8436 cable yet sod all places carry it
- If you want a circuit without RCD protection for freezer, boiler,
storage heaters, alarm you need BS8436 cable yet sod all places carry
it

PVC coated copper pipe.
- I suspect water regs require pipe buried to be PVC coated
- Whatever, many houses use clinker block which in 20yrs trashes
copper pipe (ask me how I know)

Less product breadth, more best of breed in quantity.
- Get rid of tower oval crap, it compresses if you look at it, stock
MK Egatube oval & conduit
- Cable by the metre is now viable because you have electronic
weighing scales - it's now possible!!
- Get rid of "every kind of tape except the good stuff", Asda duck
masking tape was good, now rubbish and falls off everything. Stock a
few good products vs a wall of every solution except the right one

Supermarkets have woken up to a smaller range, in quantity, at better
prices.
Screwfix do carry decent stuff - but even their range is actually
quite limited.

Monitor the group for a list of all DIY jobs.
Then ask Pro's how to do them, since many DIY stores employ such after
they are physical wrecks(!).
Then stock parts to achieve it, rather than a lot of tat which sits
there forever.

It might be worth breaking the bigger stores down into "sub-
companies".
Why have wandering idiots when the electrical area could be a counter
like screwfix manned by 1-2 people and back-end onto the warehouse
carrying *everything*, like an electrical factor. Basically
ElecCentre, PlumbCentre, TileCentre, ConstructionCentre.
Disintermediate out the specialist factors. Why do I see a warehouse
on the back of B&Q warehouses? It should be done as "multiple factors
under one roof" and get the economy of scale and footfall in one place
that used to trudge to CEF, N&E, Edmonson, Screwfix - only to find
they have 1 screw, not that bit, wrong make of that bit, that bit is
special order, that bit will be 3 days, that bit will be 2 days.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:02:13 +0000, Tim W wrote:

Rubbish. Do you suggest I leave them at home on their own then (apart from
it being illegal)?


The McCanns got away with it. :-(

Tim W wrote:
pete
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 15:26

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:25:39 +0000, Tim W wrote:
G.Mo
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 13:52

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?
Don't know about advice, but I would like:

Sensible prices[1];

Stock in the right bins and levels maintained;

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.
Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.

Rubbish. Do you suggest I leave them at home on their own then (apart from
it being illegal)? Sometimes I have a hard time with some of the nonsense
that gets spouted here.

That is EXACTLY why I want a double kiddie trolley - so I can keep them
together and away from the pointy bits and out from under the feet of grumpy
old gits.



And we can mash them into the car park with our white vans and 4x4's :-)

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:20:22 +0000, Adrian C wrote:
Take a look into the tools or electricals section in Home Depot US, and
the helpfulness of their staff, and where B&Q is lacking will be pretty
plain.

Interesting. HD's my local 'big' DIY store these days, and it's true they
do some things well - but I've found plenty of staff there who have no
clue about anything, and their prices are typically quite a bit higher
than the farm supply place just down the road, and the quality generally a
little lower (HD's lumber often isn't up to much, and I quite often see
things on the shelves that have been trashed in transit but put out anyway).

cheers

Jules

js.b1 wrote:

- Marmox in various thicknesses
- Kingspan/Celotex in various thicknesses and half-sheets

Couldn't get anything of the sort in B&Q or Wickes the other week. Most
just looked blank; one older lady at B&Q knew what I wanted but said the
nearest thing they had was plain expanded polystyrene.

Given the current fetish for insulation ("energy saving") I find this
surprising.

Pete

js.b1
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 18:01

Product range in 2-3 grades only.
- Pro - Good - Disposable
- Screwdrivers from CK, Stanley & cheap clone
- Not a store sprawling in screwdrivers

Agreed. I'd like to see that with power tools. I think they could do worse
than just go with Blue Bosch, Green Bosch and random-crap brand. Green's
perfectly decent for DIY, IME Blue is tough enough for pro-DIY and if you're
really picky, you'll buy exactly the make and model you want from a
specialist or off the web anyway. I have trouble placing
Makita/Metabo/Green/Blue Bosch/DeWalt in any sort of pecking order (other
than Green Bosch is probably the base) - keep it simple, it's a general
store... Or arrange the tools uniformly into "Pro", "DIY" and "Value" and
label the areas as such.

Product range based on solutions.
- Marmox in various thicknesses
- Kingspan/Celotex in various thicknesses and half-sheets
- Prices to match the best online without 10-min order & £20 delivery

They've (T Wells) have really cracked this WRT Ply and other related sheet
materials. There's a whole section of precut sheet materials in small
sections. And the instore whole-sheet cutting service is good.

As you say, if they could extrapolate to other materials. I think wickes do
some cut down Celotex - but the problem is it really is Celotex at Celotex
prices (ie stupid). 44 quid a full sheet for 50mm(!). Even being able to buy
1ft and 2ft-square of PB would be useful for patching jobs.

And sell vapour barrier PB - there are enough places in a typical house that
need it.

More cable options.
- BS7211 1.5mm for lighting re insulation level (50m & 100m)
- BS8436 1.5mm & 2.5mm (50m & 100m)
- If you extend a non-RCD circuit you a) need to add a RCD spur or b)
use BS8436 cable yet sod all places carry it
- If you want a circuit without RCD protection for freezer, boiler,
storage heaters, alarm you need BS8436 cable yet sod all places carry
it

More info on the IEE regs too. I'm pleased to see, after all the Part P
nonsense, that example wiring boards (or equivalent diagrams) are coming
back. But some summary leaflets describing when you want an RCD, fan
isolator and stuff like that. And sell some electrical guide books,
including the OnSite (that's easy enough to follow for the average
intelligent person). I lent mine to one of the mums at nursery so she could
check if the sparkies who were coming to quote for work were talking rubbish
or not. as it happened one was a panic merchant who wanted to strip the
house out, and the other was far more pragmatic and suggested some remedial
work that wasn't much different to what I'd concluded (although I'd only had
a cursory look).


PVC coated copper pipe.
- I suspect water regs require pipe buried to be PVC coated
- Whatever, many houses use clinker block which in 20yrs trashes
copper pipe (ask me how I know)

Less product breadth, more best of breed in quantity.

Like Ubuntu Linux - why install 25 email readers, when 21 are utter crap
and/or minority interest.

- Get rid of tower oval crap, it compresses if you look at it, stock
MK Egatube oval & conduit

Yes!

- Cable by the metre is now viable because you have electronic
weighing scales - it's now possible!!

They've always sold chain by the metre anyway. And rope.

- Get rid of "every kind of tape except the good stuff", Asda duck
masking tape was good, now rubbish and falls off everything. Stock a
few good products vs a wall of every solution except the right one

And, those product search terminals/kiosks - have a product suggestion, eg
"I want aquapanel". At least all the things they don't sell can be more
readily profiled. I'm damn sure that when I whine at the lad, none of it
ever gets back to a manager who can get more lines on the shelves.

Then ask Pro's how to do them, since many DIY stores employ such after
they are physical wrecks(!).
Then stock parts to achieve it, rather than a lot of tat which sits
there forever.

It might be worth breaking the bigger stores down into "sub-
companies".
Why have wandering idiots when the electrical area could be a counter
like screwfix manned by 1-2 people and back-end onto the warehouse
carrying *everything*, like an electrical factor.

Good idea. They can have display boards showing one example of *everything*
(down to the last cable clip and section of wire, boards are 2D - use the
height, and wrap them around the waiting area). Put numbers on each item.
Then punters ask for 2 number-502s, 5 number-223s etc. It would also avoid
the plonkers putting stuff back in the wrong place but still allow
unhindered touch-feely browsing (which is what I like about B&Q over the
wholesalers).

Repeat for the areas you suggest. Leave the tools, gardening, misc boxed
items and lighting out in normal shop format with the trade counters
arranged along the rear (next to the warehouse).

Basically
ElecCentre, PlumbCentre, TileCentre, ConstructionCentre.
Disintermediate out the specialist factors. Why do I see a warehouse
on the back of B&Q warehouses? It should be done as "multiple factors
under one roof" and get the economy of scale and footfall in one place
that used to trudge to CEF, N&E, Edmonson, Screwfix - only to find
they have 1 screw, not that bit, wrong make of that bit, that bit is
special order, that bit will be 3 days, that bit will be 2 days.

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

Pete Verdon d
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:24

js.b1 wrote:

- Marmox in various thicknesses
- Kingspan/Celotex in various thicknesses and half-sheets

Couldn't get anything of the sort in B&Q or Wickes the other week. Most
just looked blank; one older lady at B&Q knew what I wanted but said the
nearest thing they had was plain expanded polystyrene.

Given the current fetish for insulation ("energy saving") I find this
surprising.

Pete

Celotex is readily available round here. You just wouldn't actually buy it
at those silly prices.

But they could get rid of that awful looking recycled plastic wool (looks
like afire hazard, even if it is doused in chemicals) and start selling
sheeps wool insulation (why doesn't anyone?).

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

On Jan 14, 7:24*pm, Pete Verdon
d wrote:
js.b1 wrote:
- Marmox in various thicknesses
- Kingspan/Celotex in various thicknesses and half-sheets

Couldn't get anything of the sort in B&Q or Wickes the other week. Most
just looked blank; one older lady at B&Q knew what I wanted but said the
nearest thing they had was plain expanded polystyrene.

It is annoying when you just "want 1 more sheet".
Screwfix list one insulated tile board in a circa £120 pack, but it is
not Marmox, very thin, very expensive.

Expanded is not waterproof, but is often used in window reveals
(gripfill to wall, onecoat plaster perhaps with PVA directly as it
keys into the voids in the surface).


Given the current fetish for insulation ("energy saving") I find this
surprising.

It is strange. It would be an ideal place to discount wall insulation
aimed at Hard-To-Heat-Houses (HTHH) & generally. Perhaps it will
happen once we hit a critical mass of housing having 200mm+ loft
insulation. B&Q did carry 50mm sheets of Extruded Polystyrene
insulation cheaply (£20), but that is not really the same (pracitcal
price tho).

A very large number (millions) of houses are at least 20% solid wall,
when it hit -13oC even an uninsulated cavity wall actually "bit" as
you walked past it with a fleece on. If we ever got a week of that the
frozen pipe problem would be huge (hot water only gets drawn
periodically unlike hotels which continually circulate as a ring).

Owain
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:48


Silly prices. If Ikea can produce a roomful of furniture for £20 don't
expect me to pay that for one shelf made out of beech-coloured
cardboard with a ding in it.

"If IKEA did DIY"

I wonder...

But would you buy a power tool called a "Yørgalwånk"...

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:30:15 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Excuse the resident charm donors!


I have no wish to be excused by you or anyone else.

You might be flattered to be asked to take part in a thoroughly bad
survey being conducted by a lazy idiot who hasn't the faintest idea
what he is doing. I am not in the least flattered, which is why my
response was strongly negative.

Proper market research can take many forms, but it never takes the
form of asking ill-informed and badly prepared questions on a forum
whose purpose, content membership the OP patently does not understand.

The OP's inept approach will only produce misleading conclusions, to
the detriment of the recommendations that will go forward to the OP's
client. For that reason, it just isn't worth responding.

On Jan 14, 5:25*pm, Jules
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 08:39:44 -0800, NT wrote:
And that might be a publicly accesible computer that shows customers
how to do various projects, how to do load calcs, insulation calcs,
all the sort of things people need to know but dont always to do a
project. Remember one of the biggst obstacles to the general public
doing projects, and thus buying stock, is not knowing how to do it.

Don't they usually have a bunch of free leaflets for the common stuff
these days, and sell all manner of books for the more complex things?

yup, but you cant cover a wide range with paper. And cant do
calculations for people, or show the slide shows


Any computer in the store would have to be something that didn't get
hogged by a single user for long periods.

No-one's gonna move in 24/7, & 2 PCs are very cheap now.


Add a self serve tea machine nearby, and if the stuff were actually
drinkable it might go somewhere towards encouraging people in.

Yeah, my favourite local one does that every once in a while along with
free hot dogs and biscuits.

Yeah. People more liekly to make a beeline for a particular store if
they have a few tables outside, tea available and PCs that explain all
the projects and show the funky things one can do

It does all cost money to make the computer presentations, that's the
rub, but could really attract business and is spread over many stores.

NT

John Rumm
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 20:30


The same sort of online ordering for basic building materials, for
delivery by a certain time, at a place of my choice would be great. An
online builders merchant if you like - but without the queuing up at the
counter, daft headline prices one needs to haggle down etc.

Yes. Parkers of Sussex has done it - they do have a comprehensive website
with not-as-bloody-stupid-as-TP prices, but still expensive for many things
that B&Q sell. Not nationwide. But a step in the right direction. They'll
match B&Q prices, but you have to go and see them, so back to square one...

http://shop.parkerbs.com/

A place to buy a decent selection of timber, where the softwood in not
all banana shaped, and the selection of hardwood runs to more than a
token offering of one or two planks of some unknown species of
"hardwood". I would love to plan a furniture construction project and be
able to click though a wood equivalent of screwfix - ordering up some
unfinshed oak boards, or some furniture board, or some planks of cherry
etc. Being able to order boards and sheet materials, and at the same
time being able to specify a cutting list, knowing that should I need to
save time I can have stuff delivered, or ready for collection, pre-cut
etc.

Oh yes - Timber Merchants - the last of the pre-Internet era vendors...

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

John Rumm
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 20:45

Tim W wrote:
Owain
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:48


Silly prices. If Ikea can produce a roomful of furniture for £20 don't
expect me to pay that for one shelf made out of beech-coloured
cardboard with a ding in it.

"If IKEA did DIY"

I wonder...

But would you buy a power tool called a "Yørgalwånk"...

LoL! - but you might stay to watch the in-store demo!



If she's as Swedish as the books on their shelves, maybe ;-

I'm sure those product names don't mean anything. They just get some 6 month
old to mumble stuff and and pepper a few å and ø's around to make it look
authentic.

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

On Jan 14, 9:49 pm, Tim W wrote:
John Rumm
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 20:45



Tim W wrote:
Owain
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:48

Silly prices. If Ikea can produce a roomful of furniture for £20 don't
expect me to pay that for one shelf made out of beech-coloured
cardboard with a ding in it.

"If IKEA did DIY"

I wonder...

But would you buy a power tool called a "Yørgalwånk"...

LoL! - but you might stay to watch the in-store demo!

If she's as Swedish as the books on their shelves, maybe ;-

I'm sure those product names don't mean anything. They just get some 6 month
old to mumble stuff and and pepper a few å and ø's around to make it look
authentic.

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

heard about the Ikea range exclusively for lesbians?

Tim W wrote:
js.b1
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 18:01

Product range in 2-3 grades only.
- Pro - Good - Disposable
- Screwdrivers from CK, Stanley & cheap clone
- Not a store sprawling in screwdrivers

Agreed. I'd like to see that with power tools. I think they could do
worse than just go with Blue Bosch, Green Bosch and random-crap
brand. Green's perfectly decent for DIY, IME Blue is tough enough for
pro-DIY and if you're really picky, you'll buy exactly the make and
model you want from a specialist or off the web anyway. I have
trouble placing Makita/Metabo/Green/Blue Bosch/DeWalt in any sort of
pecking order (other than Green Bosch is probably the base) - keep it
simple, it's a general store... Or arrange the tools uniformly into
"Pro", "DIY" and "Value" and label the areas as such.

Alas the B&Q el cheapos aren't that cheap and are dire. The McAllister
aren't much better.

SNIP

They've (T Wells) have really cracked this WRT Ply and other related
sheet materials. There's a whole section of precut sheet materials in
small sections. And the instore whole-sheet cutting service is good.

Price in my local 'uge' B&Q is higher than my timber merchants who also have
a cutting facility. The B&Q cutting service involves half an hours wait to
find the blind innumerate droid who has been trained to bugger up any
possible cut.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Tim W wrote:
Owain
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:48


Silly prices. If Ikea can produce a roomful of furniture for £20
don't expect me to pay that for one shelf made out of beech-coloured
cardboard with a ding in it.

"If IKEA did DIY"

I wonder...

But would you buy a power tool called a "Yørgalwånk"...

Went to IKEA last week. They now sell a 12v driver for £12. Don't racall
the name :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

The Medway Handyman
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 22:10


Price in my local 'uge' B&Q is higher than my timber merchants who also
have
a cutting facility. The B&Q cutting service involves half an hours wait
to find the blind innumerate droid who has been trained to bugger up any
possible cut.


Self service facility - that would sort the men from the boys.

Or the ham-fisted to the no-fisted...

--
Tim Watts

Icicles - nature's way of pinpointing all the leaks in your guttering...

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 20:26:06 +0000, Tim W wrote:

js.b1
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 18:01

Product range in 2-3 grades only.
- Pro - Good - Disposable
- Screwdrivers from CK, Stanley & cheap clone
- Not a store sprawling in screwdrivers

Agreed. I'd like to see that with power tools. I think they could do worse
than just go with Blue Bosch, Green Bosch and random-crap brand. Green's
perfectly decent for DIY, IME Blue is tough enough for pro-DIY and if you're
really picky, you'll buy exactly the make and model you want from a
specialist or off the web anyway. I have trouble placing
Makita/Metabo/Green/Blue Bosch/DeWalt in any sort of pecking order (other
than Green Bosch is probably the base) - keep it simple, it's a general
store... Or arrange the tools uniformly into "Pro", "DIY" and "Value" and
label the areas as such.


That seems like a good idea. The trouble is, B&Q's business model
seems to be based on passing off cheap junk as though it was something
with better quality, accordingly charging higher prices.

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 15:26:04 GMT, pete wrote:

On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:25:39 +0000, Tim W wrote:
G.Mo
wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 13:52

Hey everybody,
I'm working with a big DIY retailer to create a better home
improvement store, kind of like a B&Q of the future. The question is
what's the best/worst thing about DIY stores today?? Expert advice and
guidance seems the first thing for the public DIY-ers but what about
people that work in the industry?

Don't know about advice, but I would like:

Sensible prices[1];

Stock in the right bins and levels maintained;

Double-kiddie shopping trolleys.
Really? I didn't know you could buy kiddies in DIY stores :-)
Seriously, I don't think children have any place in a DIY store. It's
full of sharp, heavy, pointy things. Keep 'em away, so they can't hurt
themselves, or others.


Self scan that works;

Website as searchable as Screwfix's with estimate stock levels for your
local store. It's hard to make this 100% accurate but the damn store
computer is scanning everything sold, so it should be possible to feed that
back real time so you have a pretty good idea if your journey is going to be
a waste of time or not.

[1] as opposed to something being 10 quid for 5m and 8 quid for 10m of the
same, the like of which I've seen in B&Q on more than one occasion.

It's difficult - a good B&Q actually carries a pretty serious range of
products these days. Sometimes their prices are pretty keen by public store
standards (eg plaster, bulk aggregate).

Trouble is, when you're short of something and your wife is out somewhere,
you've no choice but to take the kids. When you've got two young ones (we
have three, but one's just about old enough to be semi-trusted), a double
seater trolley is a blessing!

SteveW