Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?
Mine is stored in a small tank in the boiler, then comes out
periodically, maybe once a day.
Alan.


--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:59:28 +0000, A.Lee wrote:

cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then? Mine is stored in a small
tank in the boiler, then comes out periodically, maybe once a day.
Alan.

Same here, but I guess in this weather there's still a possibility of ice
build-up over several days. Ours empties when the 'mini-cistern' is full,
and I guess that is probably several times a day if the boiler is on all
the time, enough to get a build-up if the pipe isn't insulated and it
stays below freezing.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

"cynic" wrote in message
...
Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

So it is not just me that is suffering then?

Adam

In article ,
cynic writes:
Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

I've a few different installers/repairers in action over the last
few years. I think the number of them who have any idea how a modern
boiler works is very low (none in my limited experience). First step
is a call to the manufacturer. Only one actually tried to follow the
fault flow chart, and failed to follow it (went from one box to another
with no line between them), so second step was a call to the manufacturer.

Some years ago when I phoned Keston's engineer help line, and soon as
I started talking about the flue gas CO2 level, you could hear the guy
at the other end suddenly change gear - seemed to come as a surprise
that he had someone on the phone who understood how the boiler worked.
The bloke was very helpful and went into detail about how to fine tune
it for very best operation, which isn't in the docs at all.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?

My Keston does. It's slightly warm*, so it's not going to freeze
unless there's a long run of exposed outside pipework. In my case,
it has about a metre of 32mm plastic, before it enters the stack.
Instructions did say not to use the 21.5mm pipework outside, but
I do see this quite often when looking at other installations.
It's never frozen, but I did have a similar effect when the drain
hole from the heat exchanger got blocked with some crud, and it
started filling with water until it blocked the flue outlet enough
to stop it lighting. It has a detector on the drain pipe backing
up, but that's after the heat exchanger drain hole, so it doesn't
detect that until it prevents combustion.

Many years ago, I plumbed in a small portable dehumdifier, which
trickles out condensate. I made up a length of thin heater wire,
by threading a length of resistance wire down about 6m of thin
PTFE sleeving (which turned out to be really difficult), and
threaded this, doubled back on itself, inside the 3m of external
plastic hose. Selected a transformer voltage so it was heated
at about 18W, and connected it to an outside frost-stat. That
never froze. (This has been decommissioned now, because I collect
the condensate water for some plants which can't handle tap
water, and for ironing.)

* I have my boiler set very low - about 45C flow. With more normal
boiler temperatures, the condensate is going to be hotter - I
suspect about same as the return water temperature. However, with
the boiler set very low, I am going to be generating more condensate
than most.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
(Andrew Gabriel) writes:

I've a few different installers/repairers in action over the last
^
seen

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not
fix it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an
ice plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look
and it turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a
warm house soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?

My Keston does. It's slightly warm*, so it's not going to freeze
unless there's a long run of exposed outside pipework. In my case,
it has about a metre of 32mm plastic, before it enters the stack.
Instructions did say not to use the 21.5mm pipework outside, but
I do see this quite often when looking at other installations.

My Baxi Solo has 21.5mm plastic and appears to be designed for it. You
certainly couldn't couple 32mm to it. The 21.5mm runs for a good 3 metres
and hasn't frozen it the recent heavy snow.

My CORGI mate installed the boiler & took the 21.5mm out through the wall &
I finished the run. I asked him about insulating it & he said it wasn't
necessary.

I guess the Baxi Solo dribbles as well - never really looked.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
"The Medway Handyman" writes:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not
fix it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an
ice plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look
and it turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a
warm house soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?

My Keston does. It's slightly warm*, so it's not going to freeze
unless there's a long run of exposed outside pipework. In my case,
it has about a metre of 32mm plastic, before it enters the stack.
Instructions did say not to use the 21.5mm pipework outside, but
I do see this quite often when looking at other installations.

My Baxi Solo has 21.5mm plastic and appears to be designed for it. You
certainly couldn't couple 32mm to it. The 21.5mm runs for a good 3 metres
and hasn't frozen it the recent heavy snow.

I think they're all designed for 21.5mm plastic.
You can buy a 21.5 to 32mm adaptor, which is what I used.

My CORGI mate installed the boiler & took the 21.5mm out through the wall &
I finished the run. I asked him about insulating it & he said it wasn't
necessary.

Often the internal radiator pipe type insulation is used.
Someone used this on an external water pipe on an office next
door to one where I was working. Halfway through the day, a
large fountain suddenly appeared. I went to have a look, and
the insulation was all waterlogged, so it was doing nothing.
You'd need to find some insulation suitable for outdoor use.
The closed-cell foam as used on aircon chilled water pipework
should be fine in that it can't waterlog, although it might
not be UV stablised.

I guess the Baxi Solo dribbles as well - never really looked.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
m...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not
fix it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an
ice plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look
and it turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a
warm house soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?

My Keston does. It's slightly warm*, so it's not going to freeze
unless there's a long run of exposed outside pipework. In my case,
it has about a metre of 32mm plastic, before it enters the stack.
Instructions did say not to use the 21.5mm pipework outside, but
I do see this quite often when looking at other installations.

My Baxi Solo has 21.5mm plastic and appears to be designed for it. You
certainly couldn't couple 32mm to it. The 21.5mm runs for a good 3 metres
and hasn't frozen it the recent heavy snow.

21.5mm - 32mm adapter readily available for a few pence.

Most boiler manufactuers instructions reccomend 32mm plastic pipe for
external condensate waste.

My CORGI mate installed the boiler & took the 21.5mm out through the wall
&
I finished the run. I asked him about insulating it & he said it wasn't
necessary.

I guess the Baxi Solo dribbles as well - never really looked.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 19 Dec, 15:59, (A.Lee) wrote:
cynic wrote:
Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not fix
it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?
Mine is stored in a small tank in the boiler, then comes out
periodically, maybe once a day.
Alan.

--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.

Our Vaillant empties out the condensate quite a few times a day, the
internal run is 21.5mm and as it soon as it leaves the building it is
in 32mm pipe, apparently if you use 21.5mm pipe outside it should be
lagged but 32mm pipe is fine. It's never frozen.

On 19/12/2009 15:48 cynic wrote:

We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.

Thanks for posting this. Seriously pleased you did!

Heating came on this morning and then turned off unexpectedly. Checked
the boiler, saw it was locked out, reset it, it started but sounded as
though it was full of air from the gurgling sound. Looked outside to
check the plume, no plume and the gurgling was even louder, as though
the fan was blowing through water rather than the pump trying to pump air.

Remembered this thread, got the kettle out, and poured it all over the
external elbow from the condensate drain pipe. The boiler has now restarted.

Management had placed a tile over the drain cover into which the
condensate pipe empties after a low level near horizontal run. Looks
like the last time it flowed it froze at the end of the pipe as it
couldn't fall and clear the end. The ice plug just worked its way back
along the pipe until the whole lot blocked.

There is an air gap between the elbow that exits the wall and the wider
vertical section of pipe but it just froze backwards and filled the gap
before working even further backwards and blocking the pipe completely.

Can now get back to wallpapering the bedroom with the paste table in the
garage with a wide open door and the temperature sub-zero...

--
F

F wrote:
On 19/12/2009 15:48 cynic wrote:

We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and
it turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm
house soon after.

Thanks for posting this. Seriously pleased you did!

Heating came on this morning and then turned off unexpectedly. Checked
the boiler, saw it was locked out, reset it, it started but sounded as
though it was full of air from the gurgling sound. Looked outside to
check the plume, no plume and the gurgling was even louder, as though
the fan was blowing through water rather than the pump trying to pump
air.
Remembered this thread, got the kettle out, and poured it all over the
external elbow from the condensate drain pipe. The boiler has now
restarted.
Management had placed a tile over the drain cover into which the
condensate pipe empties after a low level near horizontal run. Looks
like the last time it flowed it froze at the end of the pipe as it
couldn't fall and clear the end. The ice plug just worked its way back
along the pipe until the whole lot blocked.

There is an air gap between the elbow that exits the wall and the
wider vertical section of pipe but it just froze backwards and filled
the gap before working even further backwards and blocking the pipe
completely.
Can now get back to wallpapering the bedroom with the paste table in
the garage with a wide open door and the temperature sub-zero...

Some people get all the good jobs.... :-)


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 20/12/2009 13:02 The Medway Handyman wrote:

Some people get all the good jobs....

Thought you'd be busy setting up a branch of TMH dedicated to hauling
broken-down Eurostars or supplying stranded passengers with
refreshments, sleeping bags, taxis etc...

--
F

On 20/12/2009 14:26, F wrote:
On 20/12/2009 13:02 The Medway Handyman wrote:

Some people get all the good jobs....

Thought you'd be busy setting up a branch of TMH dedicated to hauling
broken-down Eurostars or supplying stranded passengers with
refreshments, sleeping bags, taxis etc...

Trans Manche Haulage?

--
Rod

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:49:50 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

So it is not just me that is suffering then?

No, from what I hear it's little old ladies too.

Maybe you can tell us more ;-)


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

How odd of God But not so odd as those who choose
To choose the Jews A Jewish god, yet spurn the Jews

On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:51:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/boiler2.jpg

That was how a CORGI left my neighbours new boiler after installing it.

What a pigging mess. Isn't the solder supposed to be on the inside of
the joints? And judging by the amout of green corrsion about he used
an acidic flux and didn't wipe it off afterwards.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 16:51:15 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/boiler2.jpg

That was how a CORGI left my neighbours new boiler after installing it.

What a pigging mess. Isn't the solder supposed to be on the inside of
the joints?

There's probably just as much _inside_ the pipes...

And judging by the amout of green corrsion about he used
an acidic flux and didn't wipe it off afterwards.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:48:36 -0800 (PST), cynic
wrote:

snip
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

Not long before I reading this yesterday one of my sisters, resident
in Humberside, reported on Facebook that her ch had packed up. Reading
this, I rang her and suggested that she checked the outlet. She phoned
a few minutes ago and said that she hadn't been able to sort it out
last night, it was too dark and getting too cold, but this morning,
after removing the right-angle bend from the end a plug of ice fell
out, so she had the heating back on before the plumber she'd phoned
yesterday turned up. He said that he had seven more similar calls to
attend to after hers. [Sister had had this problem before but didn't
know what had caused it.]
So thanks from brother in Leicestershire for the tip that helped
sister in Humberside.

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:49:50 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

So it is not just me that is suffering then?

No, from what I hear it's little old ladies too.

Maybe you can tell us more ;-)


--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

Well in the end I received lots of calls about boilers not working.

The odd thing was there were 3 boilers all in the S64 postcode area and
fitted 18 months apart that had stopped working withing 3 hours of each
other. I did go and get the 90 year ladies boiler working. Standing on a
ladder when it is minus 4 with a strong wind is no fun. At least her 25
stone next door neighbour did come out to foot the ladders for me. Fag in
one hand, can of beer in the other but at least he did offer.

The problem was snow and the fall pipe. The fallpipe had filled up with a
load of slushy snow and I guess that this slowed the condensate flow where
it entered the fallpipe and allowed it to freeze. I removed the bottom of
the fallpipe cleared the
slush and used a hairdryer and hot towels to melt the ice which had formed
in the condensate.

Other calls were

Water dripping through the ceiling. This was not a work job but at a
neighbours house. The boiler is a Ferroli and the condensate pipe had
frozen. It seems that Ferrolis do not turn off when the condensate is full
and instead drip water all over. That should not happen. I will have to get
a manual for that boiler and check it out.


Another boiler in a loft not working. Well that was easy enough. The owners
had come back off holiday and put the suitcases in the loft on top of the
condensate pipe and bowed the pipe so that it held water. It was not frozen.

Two others were in airing cupboards. That was a bucket job. The owners can
empty the bucket and reconnect the condensate pipe when it is warmer. That
was a tip I got from a very good heating engineer.

The final one that I could be bothered to deal with was easy. The boiler was
in the airing cupboard and the owner had turned the fused spur off when
putting the vacuum cleaner in the cupboard. Sorted that one over the phone.

Adam

On 20 Dec, 23:58, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

And judging by the amout of green corrsion about he used
an acidic flux and didn't wipe it off afterwards.

My last CORGI used acid spray flux as a cooldown spray, and leak
detector. You can imagine the corrosion appearing later (even on gas).

Andrew Gabriel
wibbled on Monday 21 December 2009 10:50

In article o.uk,
"Dave Liquorice" writes:


What a pigging mess. Isn't the solder supposed to be on the inside of
the joints?

I've had that problem with lead free joints. By the time I've heated it
enough to see a visible ring all round, there's usually a blob on the
bottom.

However, it looks neater than that after I've wiped a damp rag over it.

There's probably just as much _inside_ the pipes...

And judging by the amout of green corrsion about he used
an acidic flux and didn't wipe it off afterwards.


It's surprising how much can remain inside. I'm fairly liberal painting heat
activated flux on my water pipes joints (gas is obviously a special case
demanding much more care and much less liberalism!) and it shows on the
first flush out with water.

--
Tim Watts

This space intentionally left blank...

F wrote:
On 20/12/2009 13:02 The Medway Handyman wrote:

Some people get all the good jobs....

Thought you'd be busy setting up a branch of TMH dedicated to hauling
broken-down Eurostars or supplying stranded passengers with
refreshments, sleeping bags, taxis etc...

Ashford's a bit far away, or I might :-)

Whenever Operation Stack is used (part of the M20 is closed & used as a
giant lorry park when the ferries/tunnel is out of action) many local
entrepreneurs' spring into action and do just that. As well as a few ladies
of the night alledgedly.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On 21 Dec, 11:17, Peter Johnson
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:48:36 -0800 (PST), cynic

wrote:

snip

We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

Not long before I reading this yesterday one of my sisters, resident
in Humberside, reported on Facebook that her ch had packed up. Reading
this, I rang her and suggested that she checked the outlet. She phoned
a few minutes ago and said that she hadn't been able to sort it out
last night, it was too dark and getting too cold, but this morning,
after removing the right-angle bend from the end a plug of ice fell
out, so she had the heating back on before the plumber she'd phoned
yesterday turned up. He said that he had seven more similar calls to
attend to after hers. [Sister had had this problem before but didn't
know what had caused it.]
So thanks from brother in Leicestershire for the tip that helped
sister in Humberside.

I posted in the hope that the information would possibly help others.
As it happens I am also in Humberside or to give its correct name East
Yorkshire in my case.
John (who has a pre-condensing type oil fired boiler with a Riello
burner and it runs just fine)

In article , The Medway
Handyman scribeth thus
F wrote:
On 20/12/2009 13:02 The Medway Handyman wrote:

Some people get all the good jobs....

Thought you'd be busy setting up a branch of TMH dedicated to hauling
broken-down Eurostars or supplying stranded passengers with
refreshments, sleeping bags, taxis etc...

Ashford's a bit far away, or I might :-)

Whenever Operation Stack is used (part of the M20 is closed & used as a
giant lorry park when the ferries/tunnel is out of action) many local
entrepreneurs' spring into action and do just that. As well as a few ladies
of the night alledgedly.


Well if ever there was an example of "supply meeting demand" thats got
to be it;!...
--
Tony Sayer

cynic wrote:

We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that

I'm vaguely planning on replacing my (non-condensing) boiler in the next
few years. The condensate drain is definitely going inside!

Pete

On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:28:52 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Two others were in airing cupboards. That was a bucket job. The owners
can empty the bucket and reconnect the condensate pipe when it is
warmer. That was a tip I got from a very good heating engineer.

Sounds like a bit of a bodger to me :^)


The final one that I could be bothered to deal with was easy. The boiler was
in the airing cupboard and the owner had turned the fused spur off when
putting the vacuum cleaner in the cupboard. Sorted that one over the phone.

Heh! One of my customers called me up with no heating or hot water (combi)
after Brutish Gas had been and done their annual service. Turned out
they'd left the gas emergency control valve off after doing a tightness
test. Sorted over the phone, though I suppose I should have gone over and
checked the test nipple.



--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous

"YAPH" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:28:52 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:

Two others were in airing cupboards. That was a bucket job. The owners
can empty the bucket and reconnect the condensate pipe when it is
warmer. That was a tip I got from a very good heating engineer.

Sounds like a bit of a bodger to me :^)


The final one that I could be bothered to deal with was easy. The boiler
was
in the airing cupboard and the owner had turned the fused spur off when
putting the vacuum cleaner in the cupboard. Sorted that one over the
phone.

Heh! One of my customers called me up with no heating or hot water (combi)
after Brutish Gas had been and done their annual service. Turned out
they'd left the gas emergency control valve off after doing a tightness
test. Sorted over the phone, though I suppose I should have gone over and
checked the test nipple.

British Gas!
Service???
Tightness test???

Since when??????

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
m...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not
fix it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an
ice plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look
and it turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a
warm house soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?

My Keston does. It's slightly warm*, so it's not going to freeze
unless there's a long run of exposed outside pipework. In my case,
it has about a metre of 32mm plastic, before it enters the stack.
Instructions did say not to use the 21.5mm pipework outside, but
I do see this quite often when looking at other installations.

My Baxi Solo has 21.5mm plastic and appears to be designed for it. You
certainly couldn't couple 32mm to it. The 21.5mm runs for a good 3 metres
and hasn't frozen it the recent heavy snow.

My CORGI mate installed the boiler & took the 21.5mm out through the wall
& I finished the run. I asked him about insulating it & he said it wasn't
necessary.

Sounds like a cowboy.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
cynic wrote:

It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

Nope seems about standard. I think I probably posted this befo

http://www.internode.co.uk/temp/boiler2.jpg

That was how a CORGI left my neighbours new boiler after installing it.

A disgrace. Elbows everywhere. Professionals only use elbows where needed.

"Peter Johnson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:48:36 -0800 (PST), cynic
wrote:

snip
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

Not long before I reading this yesterday one of my sisters, resident
in Humberside, reported on Facebook that her ch had packed up. Reading
this, I rang her and suggested that she checked the outlet. She phoned
a few minutes ago and said that she hadn't been able to sort it out
last night, it was too dark and getting too cold, but this morning,
after removing the right-angle bend from the end a plug of ice fell
out, so she had the heating back on before the plumber she'd phoned
yesterday turned up. He said that he had seven more similar calls to
attend to after hers. [Sister had had this problem before but didn't
know what had caused it.]
So thanks from brother in Leicestershire for the tip that helped
sister in Humberside.

It should not ice up. Get it sorted.

"Peter Johnson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:48:36 -0800 (PST), cynic
wrote:

snip
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an ice
plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look and it
turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a warm house
soon after.
An hour later my phone rang and a friend told me he had no heat or hot
water. Jokingly I said it would be an ice plug in the condensate line.
Ten minutes later he phoned back to say it had been just that and
promised me a pint.
It seems there is a distinct lack of appreciation of the effects of
frost on condensate pipes by installers or are we afflicted worse than
others in our area?

Not long before I reading this yesterday one of my sisters, resident
in Humberside, reported on Facebook that her ch had packed up. Reading
this, I rang her and suggested that she checked the outlet. She phoned
a few minutes ago and said that she hadn't been able to sort it out
last night, it was too dark and getting too cold, but this morning,
after removing the right-angle bend from the end a plug of ice fell
out, so she had the heating back on before the plumber she'd phoned
yesterday turned up. He said that he had seven more similar calls to
attend to after hers. [Sister had had this problem before but didn't
know what had caused it.]
So thanks from brother in Leicestershire for the tip that helped
sister in Humberside.

In the past few days I saw a lump of ice stuck to the pavement about 1.5
inch thick. I was dangerous. Above was a dripping condensing boiler flue.
The flue was fitted incorrectly and facing down giving a constant condensate
water drip.

I have also seen this with dripping pressure discharge pipes, where the
homeowner just changes the dial back up to 1 bar by turning the filling loop
tap. Sealed boilers can be a nuisance and also condensing boilers. They
are a nuisance in blocks of flats where our Eastern European friends and the
average Corgi (Gas Safe) cowboy has been at work.

In modern flats with high insulation values they only fit electric heating,
and quite right too, as all these pipes and flues look a mess on the side of
blocks.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
m...
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
(A.Lee) writes:
cynic wrote:

Ho hum - went shopping this morning and noticed my neighbour had a
plumber/heating installers van outside. When I returned said van had
gone and neighbour looked distinctly cold. On speaking to him it
transpired installer knew nothing about the insides of the boiler
despite having installed and "comissioned" it. Since he could not
fix it he departed.
We had very severe frost last night so I enquired if there was an
ice plug in the condensate outlet. Neighbour got ladder out to look
and it turned out there was. Soon neighbour had kettle out and a
warm house soon after.

Do some pipes constantly 'dribble' out then?

My Keston does. It's slightly warm*, so it's not going to freeze
unless there's a long run of exposed outside pipework. In my case,
it has about a metre of 32mm plastic, before it enters the stack.
Instructions did say not to use the 21.5mm pipework outside, but
I do see this quite often when looking at other installations.

My Baxi Solo has 21.5mm plastic and appears to be designed for it. You
certainly couldn't couple 32mm to it. The 21.5mm runs for a good 3 metres
and hasn't frozen it the recent heavy snow.

My CORGI mate installed the boiler & took the 21.5mm out through the wall
& I finished the run. I asked him about insulating it & he said it wasn't
necessary.

Get rid of the pipe and fit an internal condensate pump.

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:40:04 +0000, Heliotrope Smith wrote:

British Gas!
Service???
Tightness test???

Since when??????

I wish people wouldn't tar all BG installers with the same brush. Whilst I
enjoyed Stephen Fry's likening of BG, as an organisation, to a pelican[1],
they do have a huge number of engineers working for them and inevitably
there will be a range of competence amongst them. A few years ago I had
the good fortune to be present while a more senior engineer took a less
experienced one through doing a landlord's gas safety on a boiler, and I
was impressed (and learned a thing or two) by how thoroughly they did it.

At one point they discovered that the foam casing seal had been augmented
with silicone to get it to seal properly and the senior guy remarked that
"that would have been X" (where X was another BG engineer who had done the
inspection previously).



[1] they can both stick their bills up their arse :-)

--
John Stumbles -- http://yaph.co.uk

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:03:19 +0000, YAPH wrote:

I wish people wouldn't tar all BG installers with the same brush. Whilst
I enjoyed Stephen Fry's likening of BG, as an organisation, to a
pelican[1], they do have a huge number of engineers working for them and
inevitably there will be a range of competence amongst them. A few years
ago I had the good fortune to be present while a more senior engineer
took a less experienced one through doing a landlord's gas safety on a
boiler, and I was impressed (and learned a thing or two) by how
thoroughly they did it.

I agree. Some years ago we had a full CH/plumbing contract with them, and
the ball valve failed completely on the cold tank in the loft. Young guy
came out, fitted a new one that had a longer thread on the 'outside', and
tilted the whole connection sideways. A few hours later we noticed water
dripping through the ceiling.

They sent an older guy out who said a few rude words about the younger
one, then proceeded to do the whole thing properly. Trimmed the pipe,
fitted isolation valve, and TESTED it!

Unfortunately they are all retiring...

[1] they can both stick their bills up their arse :-)


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

"YAPH" wrote in message
...

Heh! One of my customers called me up with no heating or hot water (combi)
after Brutish Gas had been and done their annual service. Turned out
they'd left the gas emergency control valve off after doing a tightness
test. Sorted over the phone, though I suppose I should have gone over and
checked the test nipple.

This wasn't about two weeks ago?
There is a house about two miles away from me that exploded.

In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

In the past few days I saw a lump of ice stuck to the pavement about
1.5 inch thick.



I was dangerous.


Yes, we know you were ...

in possession of a hacksaw

--
geoff

Bob Eager writes:

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:03:19 +0000, YAPH wrote:
I agree. Some years ago we had a full CH/plumbing contract with them, and
the ball valve failed completely on the cold tank in the loft. Young guy
came out, fitted a new one that had a longer thread on the 'outside', and
tilted the whole connection sideways. A few hours later we noticed water
dripping through the ceiling.

They sent an older guy out who said a few rude words about the younger
one, then proceeded to do the whole thing properly. Trimmed the pipe,
fitted isolation valve, and TESTED it!

Unfortunately they are all retiring...

I don't think age has much to do with it. As I mentioned in
this saga:
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/msg/479563241e114c74?hl=en&dmode=source&output=gplain

the ones who found and mended the real fault were at the young
end of the scale. I suspect that the employee selection methods
BG uses are unreliable.

--
Jón Fairbairn
http://www.chaos.org.uk/~jf/Stuff-I-dont-want.html (updated 2009-01-31)

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Doctor Drivel
writes

In the past few days I saw a lump of ice stuck to the pavement about 1.5
inch thick.

I was dangerous.

Yes, we know you were ...

Maxie, did you sneak this ice there? Your turned down wellies must great in
this weather. Fantastic Maxie, fantastic.