On 4 Nov, 11:22, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
* *Mark wrote:

Hospitals are the worst. *What moron thought that pay and dismay is
suitable for a Hospital car park? As an outpatient how the **** you do
know how long you are going to be kept waiting?
Last time I visited my local hospital I had to take my son to casualty
for a suspected broken toe. *I did not have enough money so had to
leave him on his own to have a long conversation with the bloody car
park attendant to avoid fines/clamping/towing away. *It's a disgrace
IMHO.

Think you need to look beyond the obvious. Think how many work at or visit
a hospital each day. To provide free unlimited parking would be impossible
at most. And it would likely be difficult to provide free parking for
'emergencies' as that could be a minor cut to some and a heart attack to
others.
*Of course it might be more easy if you built new hospitals on out of town
sites - like shopping malls - but what is more important, them being close
to those needing them or free parking?


They did that in Edinburgh - built a new hospital on the outskirts of
the city. Didn't stop them from imposing swingeing parking fees, or
covering the surrounding roads in every direction with double yellow
lines.

--
Halmyre

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:00:44 -0800, Halmyre wrote:

They did that in Edinburgh - built a new hospital on the outskirts of
the city. Didn't stop them from imposing swingeing parking fees, or
covering the surrounding roads in every direction with double yellow
lines.

Exactly the same in Ashford, Kent. Car park laughably small, and
inadequate bus service too.



--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

Mark wrote:


And then there's the car parks you visit for the first time and you
are still expected to have the right change, even before you know how
much it costs.

And the pay and dismay car parks where it costs a different amount
depending on where you park. Once I got a ticket because I parked on
the wrong side of an invisible line.

And just occasionally car parks like the new Sainsbury 'flagship' High
Wycombe store. Fully equipped with car detectors so you get directed to
empty bays. A smart card system - get card on entry and either present
at the till for free parking or pay on foot.

But the real benefit is that a few days after opening (what? a couple of
months ago) the barrier/payment system broke down and so far hasn't
worked since. Free parking without any hassle! Hooray.

(Bound to be fixed by next time I go.)

--
Rod

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:18:14 +0000, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:09:50 +0000, Frank Erskine
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:27:33 +0000, Tim W had this to
say:

Mark
wibbled on Tuesday 03 November 2009 09:12


The council often justify parking cost rises to "encourage the use of
public transport". However the bus company always put up their prices
at the same time. Coincidence, I think not.


And there should be a bloody law against both pay and display and
machines
that don't give change. I hated carrying 25 quid in change every week to
feed the station car park machine, and I hate going shopping or to the
hospital

Parking at or around our local main hospital is dreadful.

Here too.

Hospitals are the worst. What moron thought that pay and dismay is
suitable for a Hospital car park? As an outpatient how the **** you do
know how long you are going to be kept waiting?

The hospital should use a barriered car park where you take your ticket with
you and pay on the way out for the number of hours you have spent parking.

Adam

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:06:31 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Mark wrote:


And then there's the car parks you visit for the first time and you
are still expected to have the right change, even before you know how
much it costs.

And the pay and dismay car parks where it costs a different amount
depending on where you park. Once I got a ticket because I parked on
the wrong side of an invisible line.

And just occasionally car parks like the new Sainsbury 'flagship' High
Wycombe store. Fully equipped with car detectors so you get directed to
empty bays. A smart card system - get card on entry and either present
at the till for free parking or pay on foot.

But the real benefit is that a few days after opening (what? a couple of
months ago) the barrier/payment system broke down and so far hasn't
worked since. Free parking without any hassle! Hooray.

(Bound to be fixed by next time I go.)


Still not fixed today.

But what a fine store! Light and airy, with everything well
presented. Truly a 21st century supermarket.

Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:06:31 +0000, Rod
wrote:


But the real benefit is that a few days after opening (what? a couple of
months ago) the barrier/payment system broke down and so far hasn't
worked since. Free parking without any hassle! Hooray.

(Bound to be fixed by next time I go.)


Still not fixed today.

But what a fine store! Light and airy, with everything well
presented. Truly a 21st century supermarket.

In many ways yes. But for the noise from the various 'get ready to push
your trolley off the conveyor' and other automatic announcements.
Overlapping and echoing. Deafening big bongs in the lift. A truly
hideous auditory environment.[1]

But the chillers are quieter than in most of the others supermarkets.


[1] OK - paid up grumpy git but I do have near permanent tinnitus and
find myself extra sensitive to noise.

--
Rod

In article ,
Bob Eager wrote:

Tell them to look at the ones Canterbury City Council use in some of
their car parks. The big one off St Radigunds has machines that give you
time for whatever amount you put in, AFAIR.

I think all the canterbury ones are per min now (albeit with a min charge)

They couldn't get the night charge right though. 1.50 after 7pm for all
night - but if you have a ticket that expires after 7pm you don't need
to pay the night charge.

Most cost effective to arrive at 18:15 and put minimum charge in (70p). At
1.5p per min the machine gives you a ticket that expires at 19:01 and saves
you 80p :-) (yes, I'm sad enough to have done this plenty of times )

Rumour has that the group tendering for the machines hadn't been informed
what complicated charging model the PHB had decided on. Machines can't
implement the model that was decided

Darren

Bob Eager wrote:

Tell them to look at the ones Canterbury City Council use in some of
their car parks. The big one off St Radigunds has machines that give you
time for whatever amount you put in, AFAIR.

Last time I was in Canterbury I ended up phoning the council to work out
how to work the b***y machine. And then explained it to the 3 people
who had overheard, and couldn't do it either.

The one next to Canterbury West if you want to wander down and have a go.

Andy

On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:45:20 +0000 (UTC), D.M.Chapman wrote:

Rumour has that the group tendering for the machines hadn't been
informed what complicated charging model the PHB had decided on.
Machines can't implement the model that was decided

I don't really believe the machines can't implement it, they aren't
mechanical, they are firmware based:

if expiry_time = start_night_charge_period then
expiry_time = end_night_charge_period

Simples.

What isn't simples is the costs and negociations for a change to the
firmware, the rewriting of that firmware and the roll out of that to
the installed machines...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:39:30 +0000, Rod
wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Still not fixed today.

But what a fine store! Light and airy, with everything well
presented. Truly a 21st century supermarket.

In many ways yes. But for the noise from the various 'get ready to push
your trolley off the conveyor' and other automatic announcements.
Overlapping and echoing. Deafening big bongs in the lift. A truly
hideous auditory environment.[1]

That's true, but it is also true of just about any supermarket with
the Travolators.


But the chillers are quieter than in most of the others supermarkets.


Also true. Very strange for Wycombe!

Perhaps the kids *are* noisy but the noise just evaporates into all
that space?


[1] OK - paid up grumpy git but I do have near permanent tinnitus and
find myself extra sensitive to noise.


Same here. My hearing is very acute, too, which means I pick up
*every* sound.

Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:39:30 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Perhaps the kids *are* noisy but the noise just evaporates into all
that space?


[1] OK - paid up grumpy git but I do have near permanent tinnitus and
find myself extra sensitive to noise.


Same here. My hearing is very acute, too, which means I pick up
*every* sound.

But I don't remember the Travolator in High Wycombe town centre Tesco
making any announcements. Nor another one anywhere that is quite as bad.

--
Rod

On 4 Nov 2009 17:33:51 GMT Bob Eager wrote :
Pay on exit would be more logical...but not perhaps as profitable, as
people would pay for what they actually use, and 'going over' fines
due to long treatment times would be less common!

That's what they've got at West Middlesex Hospital and it is the only
sensible option - as the OP said, pay and display supposes you know how
long you'll be there at the outset.

I know some politicians have angled for votes by promising free hospital
parking but unless there's a huge surplus of spaces, then free = little
chance of finding a space. I can't now remember what West Mid charges,
but the last few times I went there, there were always spaces to be had.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:03:55 +0000, Andy Champ wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:

Tell them to look at the ones Canterbury City Council use in some of
their car parks. The big one off St Radigunds has machines that give
you time for whatever amount you put in, AFAIR.

Last time I was in Canterbury I ended up phoning the council to work out
how to work the b***y machine. And then explained it to the 3 people
who had overheard, and couldn't do it either.

The one next to Canterbury West if you want to wander down and have a
go.

One of the ones that wanted the full reg number? I couldn't work those
either, although mine was at the hospital in Margate.

I think all of those were 'converted' to numbers only. Not sure, as I
avoid Canterbury like the plague, even if I live only 6-7 miles away.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:08:50 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Bruce wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:39:30 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Perhaps the kids *are* noisy but the noise just evaporates into all
that space?


[1] OK - paid up grumpy git but I do have near permanent tinnitus and
find myself extra sensitive to noise.


Same here. My hearing is very acute, too, which means I pick up
*every* sound.

But I don't remember the Travolator in High Wycombe town centre Tesco
making any announcements. Nor another one anywhere that is quite as bad.


I visit quite a few supermarkets for work and several Sainsbury's
stores have the same noisy Travolators. Several Tesco stores also
have them; some are equally noisy (e.g. Kingston in Milton Keynes) but
others aren't (one just outside Northampton, plus Wycombe).

The announcements are either an HSE requirement or something demanded
by the DDA.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:33:32 +0000, Bruce wrote:

The announcements are either an HSE requirement ...

Crikey are they that LOUD and preceeded by a BING BONG?

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:53:15 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:33:32 +0000, Bruce wrote:

The announcements are either an HSE requirement ...

Crikey are they that LOUD and preceeded by a BING BONG?


Yes, BING BONG, they're the ones. ;-)

In article ,
Mark wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:22:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Hospitals are the worst. What moron thought that pay and dismay is
suitable for a Hospital car park? As an outpatient how the **** you do
know how long you are going to be kept waiting?

Last time I visited my local hospital I had to take my son to casualty
for a suspected broken toe. I did not have enough money so had to
leave him on his own to have a long conversation with the bloody car
park attendant to avoid fines/clamping/towing away. It's a disgrace
IMHO.

Think you need to look beyond the obvious. Think how many work at or
visit a hospital each day. To provide free unlimited parking would be
impossible at most. And it would likely be difficult to provide free
parking for 'emergencies' as that could be a minor cut to some and a
heart attack to others. Of course it might be more easy if you built
new hospitals on out of town sites - like shopping malls - but what is
more important, them being close to those needing them or free parking?

Of course I've looked "beyond the obvious" as you so rudely put it.

You obviously haven't. Why should the taxpayer subsidise parking at
hospitals for all and sundry as you suggest in the first part of your
post? I'd rather such funds were spent on treating patients.

Nowhere was I proposing providing "unlimited free parking". A bit of
common sense should prevail. Providing free parking for emergencies
would be sensible and there are many ways to achieve this.

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

--
*If you lived in your car, you'd be home by now *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:14:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Quite, caught "Real Life Rescues" or something similar the other
night. One of the 999 operators related a tale of someone calling 999
as they couldn't find their TV remote and didn't know how to switch
off their TV without it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:14:00 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:22:44 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
Hospitals are the worst. What moron thought that pay and dismay is
suitable for a Hospital car park? As an outpatient how the **** you do
know how long you are going to be kept waiting?

Last time I visited my local hospital I had to take my son to casualty
for a suspected broken toe. I did not have enough money so had to
leave him on his own to have a long conversation with the bloody car
park attendant to avoid fines/clamping/towing away. It's a disgrace
IMHO.

Think you need to look beyond the obvious. Think how many work at or
visit a hospital each day. To provide free unlimited parking would be
impossible at most. And it would likely be difficult to provide free
parking for 'emergencies' as that could be a minor cut to some and a
heart attack to others. Of course it might be more easy if you built
new hospitals on out of town sites - like shopping malls - but what is
more important, them being close to those needing them or free parking?

Of course I've looked "beyond the obvious" as you so rudely put it.

You obviously haven't. Why should the taxpayer subsidise parking at
hospitals for all and sundry as you suggest in the first part of your
post? I'd rather such funds were spent on treating patients.

FFS. I am not proposing any such thing as you would know if you had
read my post properly. Car park charges are a fairly recent
innovation and I doubt that the fees actually get back to improving
patient care. I'll bet is all gets swallowed up by the army of
bureaucrats that administer the scheme.

Nowhere was I proposing providing "unlimited free parking". A bit of
common sense should prevail. Providing free parking for emergencies
would be sensible and there are many ways to achieve this.

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Irrelevant. The hospital is quite capable of deciding what is an
emergency.

Others on this thread have suggested an alternative -- pay on exit.
For "real" emergencies the parking can be free.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:14:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Quite, caught "Real Life Rescues" or something similar the other
night. One of the 999 operators related a tale of someone calling 999
as they couldn't find their TV remote and didn't know how to switch
off their TV without it.

Yes - and plenty other examples. If a real medical emergency you'd be
better of calling an ambulance since you'll likely get faster attention
that way than going to a hospital. As regards outpatient treatment, *most*
could make use of public transport or if they are too infirm for this
facilities provided by the hospital. The high car park charges don't seem
to put people off driving there - the local hospital carpark is always
full. And it is well provided for by public transport.
In case anyone things I'm being 'NIMBY' about this I've been attending
physio at a local clinic for the last few weeks. And go by bus.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mark wrote:
You obviously haven't. Why should the taxpayer subsidise parking at
hospitals for all and sundry as you suggest in the first part of your
post? I'd rather such funds were spent on treating patients.

FFS. I am not proposing any such thing as you would know if you had
read my post properly.

The tome of your post suggests you were.

Car park charges are a fairly recent
innovation and I doubt that the fees actually get back to improving
patient care.

So suggest a better scheme.

I'll bet is all gets swallowed up by the army of
bureaucrats that administer the scheme.

Perhaps such administration should be done by volunteers?

Nowhere was I proposing providing "unlimited free parking". A bit of
common sense should prevail. Providing free parking for emergencies
would be sensible and there are many ways to achieve this.

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Irrelevant. The hospital is quite capable of deciding what is an
emergency.

Great. I can just imagine the posts from you when they disagree with your
definition of an emergency. And which 'army of bureaucrats' is going to
decide what is and what isn't an emergency as regards charging for
parking?

Others on this thread have suggested an alternative -- pay on exit.

Sounds like a way of having the carpark jammed with abandoned cars. And
also requires more sophisticated equipment than a simple ticket machine.

For "real" emergencies the parking can be free.

It is for ambulances. Which should be used for true emergencies.

--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mark wrote:
You obviously haven't. Why should the taxpayer subsidise parking at
hospitals for all and sundry as you suggest in the first part of your
post? I'd rather such funds were spent on treating patients.

FFS. I am not proposing any such thing as you would know if you had
read my post properly.

The tome of your post suggests you were.

Car park charges are a fairly recent
innovation and I doubt that the fees actually get back to improving
patient care.

So suggest a better scheme.

I'll bet is all gets swallowed up by the army of
bureaucrats that administer the scheme.

Perhaps such administration should be done by volunteers?

Nowhere was I proposing providing "unlimited free parking". A bit of
common sense should prevail. Providing free parking for emergencies
would be sensible and there are many ways to achieve this.
You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Irrelevant. The hospital is quite capable of deciding what is an
emergency.

Great. I can just imagine the posts from you when they disagree with your
definition of an emergency. And which 'army of bureaucrats' is going to
decide what is and what isn't an emergency as regards charging for
parking?

Others on this thread have suggested an alternative -- pay on exit.

Sounds like a way of having the carpark jammed with abandoned cars. And
also requires more sophisticated equipment than a simple ticket machine.

For "real" emergencies the parking can be free.

It is for ambulances. Which should be used for true emergencies.

I feel sorry for the poor sods having to attend St.Thomas Hospital in
the centre of London for their chemo. What a bloody nightmare that is.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:59:38 +0000, Stuart Noble wrote:

I feel sorry for the poor sods having to attend St.Thomas Hospital in
the centre of London for their chemo. What a bloody nightmare that is.

I'm lucky - I have to attend Barts. Massive car park 2 minutes walk away,
and pretty cheap! Nothing to do with the hospital of course...

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:57:50 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Mark wrote:
You obviously haven't. Why should the taxpayer subsidise parking at
hospitals for all and sundry as you suggest in the first part of your
post? I'd rather such funds were spent on treating patients.

FFS. I am not proposing any such thing as you would know if you had
read my post properly.

The tome of your post suggests you were.

What tome?

Car park charges are a fairly recent
innovation and I doubt that the fees actually get back to improving
patient care.

So suggest a better scheme.

Several people have -- pay on exit.

I'll bet is all gets swallowed up by the army of
bureaucrats that administer the scheme.

Perhaps such administration should be done by volunteers?

ROTFL! It's almost impossible to get volunteers for far more
rewarding work that this nowadays. Everyone wants paying nowdays.

Nowhere was I proposing providing "unlimited free parking". A bit of
common sense should prevail. Providing free parking for emergencies
would be sensible and there are many ways to achieve this.

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Irrelevant. The hospital is quite capable of deciding what is an
emergency.

Great. I can just imagine the posts from you when they disagree with your
definition of an emergency. And which 'army of bureaucrats' is going to
decide what is and what isn't an emergency as regards charging for
parking?

It's very easy. You just present your casualty forms at the exit and
you don't need to pay. Otherwise you pay.

Others on this thread have suggested an alternative -- pay on exit.

Sounds like a way of having the carpark jammed with abandoned cars. And
also requires more sophisticated equipment than a simple ticket machine.

For "real" emergencies the parking can be free.

It is for ambulances. Which should be used for true emergencies.

It depends on the type of emergency. Our ambulance service is
severely underfunded and cannot even meet its own (lax) targets. I'd
rather go in a car, if possible, instead of waiting for an ambulance
that may take hours to turn up (or not at all).

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
[Reply-to address valid until it is spammed.]

"Stuart Noble" wrote in message
.. .
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Mark wrote:
You obviously haven't. Why should the taxpayer subsidise parking at
hospitals for all and sundry as you suggest in the first part of your
post? I'd rather such funds were spent on treating patients.

FFS. I am not proposing any such thing as you would know if you had
read my post properly.

The tome of your post suggests you were.

Car park charges are a fairly recent
innovation and I doubt that the fees actually get back to improving
patient care.

So suggest a better scheme.

I'll bet is all gets swallowed up by the army of
bureaucrats that administer the scheme.

Perhaps such administration should be done by volunteers?
Nowhere was I proposing providing "unlimited free parking". A bit of
common sense should prevail. Providing free parking for emergencies
would be sensible and there are many ways to achieve this.
You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Irrelevant. The hospital is quite capable of deciding what is an
emergency.

Great. I can just imagine the posts from you when they disagree with your
definition of an emergency. And which 'army of bureaucrats' is going to
decide what is and what isn't an emergency as regards charging for
parking?
Others on this thread have suggested an alternative -- pay on exit.

Sounds like a way of having the carpark jammed with abandoned cars. And
also requires more sophisticated equipment than a simple ticket machine.
For "real" emergencies the parking can be free.

It is for ambulances. Which should be used for true emergencies.

I feel sorry for the poor sods having to attend St.Thomas Hospital in the
centre of London for their chemo. What a bloody nightmare that is.


As with other inner City hospitals you can't get parked even if you want to
pay because it is clogged up by off duty staff with parking permits doing
their shopping etc.

mark

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:34:14 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Yes - and plenty other examples. If a real medical emergency you'd be
better of calling an ambulance since you'll likely get faster attention
that way than going to a hospital.

I doubt it, outside M-F 9-5 it would be the best part of an hour for
an ambulance to attend here. That's working day restriction is
assuming that the the volunteer ambulance is still in the town
otherwise it's an hour at any time of day or night.

I'd call the local cottage hospital which has a 24/7 minor injuries
unit and they *might* call one of the local GP's in a dire emergency
but the GP's don't do "out of hours" cover and delegate that to
CueDoc. So *if* there was a CueDoc Dr available they'd still take the
hour or so to get here.

As regards outpatient treatment, *most* could make use of public
transport or if they are too infirm for this facilities provided by the
hospital.

Public Transport whats that? Half a dozen buses to several different
destinations M-F. The chances of the bus timetable fitting with an
hospital appointment are so close to zero that they may as well be
zero. You'd have to change bus at least once if not twice depending
on which hospital you where heading for. I'm not even sure that one
could get to Newcastle by PT without going to Brampton/Haltwhistle or
Carlisle.

In case anyone things I'm being 'NIMBY' about this I've been attending
physio at a local clinic for the last few weeks. And go by bus.

But you live in the metropolis of London with probably the best PT
system in the country. For the vast majority of the country PT barely
exists.

--
Cheers
Dave.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
Yes - and plenty other examples. If a real medical emergency you'd be
better of calling an ambulance since you'll likely get faster attention
that way than going to a hospital.

I doubt it, outside M-F 9-5 it would be the best part of an hour for
an ambulance to attend here. That's working day restriction is
assuming that the the volunteer ambulance is still in the town
otherwise it's an hour at any time of day or night.

I'd call the local cottage hospital which has a 24/7 minor injuries
unit and they *might* call one of the local GP's in a dire emergency
but the GP's don't do "out of hours" cover and delegate that to
CueDoc. So *if* there was a CueDoc Dr available they'd still take the
hour or so to get here.

This is the problem. Getting to a hospital with an emergency doesn't
guarantee you'll be seen immediately. At least when the ambulance arrives
you'll have their full attention. ;-)

--
*Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I feel sorry for the poor sods having to attend St.Thomas Hospital in
the centre of London for their chemo. What a bloody nightmare that is.

Do any centre of town hospitals have adequate free or cheap parking? I
somehow doubt it. And is driving there any easier for a sick person than
using other means?

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
As regards outpatient treatment, *most* could make use of public
transport or if they are too infirm for this facilities provided by
the hospital.

Public Transport whats that? Half a dozen buses to several different
destinations M-F. The chances of the bus timetable fitting with an
hospital appointment are so close to zero that they may as well be
zero.

So what happens if you don't own a car - or are unfit to drive? If you're
relying on someone else to drive you then do they have to have free
parking on the premises?

You'd have to change bus at least once if not twice depending
on which hospital you where heading for. I'm not even sure that one
could get to Newcastle by PT without going to Brampton/Haltwhistle or
Carlisle.

Then you could drive to somewhere with easy parking that's on a reasonable
PT link - if you really don't want to pay the parking fees. Unless you
think you should have a waiver from them because of where you live. That
would go down well with some. ;-)

In case anyone things I'm being 'NIMBY' about this I've been attending
physio at a local clinic for the last few weeks. And go by bus.

But you live in the metropolis of London with probably the best PT
system in the country. For the vast majority of the country PT barely
exists.

Most drivers can't be bothered with it even if it were perfect. But
seemingly can't understand it's impossible to provide roads and parking
for them in our towns without demolishing them and starting again.

--
*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:33:32 +0000, Bruce wrote:

The announcements are either an HSE requirement ...

Crikey are they that LOUD and preceeded by a BING BONG?

They are that loud. There are two parallel flights (one up, one down)
and two flights (one from ground to the sort of mezzanine level and a
second from there up to the car park level). The whole affair is in a
large foyer area with hard, echoic walls, floors and ceilings. And there
are speakers at the end of every belt which sound when anyone on a belt
gets near the end - whether or not they have a trolley to push off the
end of it.

So on a busy day they can be going off simultaneously on all four belt
ends. And the extra bing bongs in the lifts... (Actually, I'm not sure
that they don't also announce 'Hold onto the handrail at the start of
each belt as well.) And there's another pair of belts inside the store.

I have been meaning to take a voice recorder with me because it sounds
more like the soundtrack from a modern Radio 4 play about a dystopian
future - but on R4 they would not have it as loud.

--
Rod

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:14:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Quite, caught "Real Life Rescues" or something similar the other
night. One of the 999 operators related a tale of someone calling 999
as they couldn't find their TV remote and didn't know how to switch
off their TV without it.

My daughter has been called out to; run out of paracetamol, baby has been
crying for nearly an hour, bad period pains, my £20 blood pressure monitor
tells me I'm nearly dead (the £16k one in the ambulance didn't) etc etc.
Not to mention numerous scroats od'ing on drugs and endless drunks.

Blood Sweat & Tea is a good read.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article o.uk,
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:14:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Quite, caught "Real Life Rescues" or something similar the other
night. One of the 999 operators related a tale of someone calling 999
as they couldn't find their TV remote and didn't know how to switch
off their TV without it.

Yes - and plenty other examples. If a real medical emergency you'd be
better of calling an ambulance since you'll likely get faster
attention that way than going to a hospital.

You won't. You go through the same triage as everyone else. Lots of people
try it on & fail.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Yes - and plenty other examples. If a real medical emergency you'd be
better of calling an ambulance since you'll likely get faster
attention that way than going to a hospital.

You won't. You go through the same triage as everyone else. Lots of
people try it on & fail.

Think you misunderstand me. If it is a real emergency surely the ambulance
crew provide first aid? And presumably report the situation to their
control?

--
*Why 'that tie suits you' but 'those shoes suit you'?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:03:02 +0000, Rod
wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:33:32 +0000, Bruce wrote:

The announcements are either an HSE requirement ...

Crikey are they that LOUD and preceeded by a BING BONG?

They are that loud. There are two parallel flights (one up, one down)
and two flights (one from ground to the sort of mezzanine level and a
second from there up to the car park level). The whole affair is in a
large foyer area with hard, echoic walls, floors and ceilings. And there
are speakers at the end of every belt which sound when anyone on a belt
gets near the end - whether or not they have a trolley to push off the
end of it.

So on a busy day they can be going off simultaneously on all four belt
ends. And the extra bing bongs in the lifts... (Actually, I'm not sure
that they don't also announce 'Hold onto the handrail at the start of
each belt as well.)


Yes, they do.

I was there this evening, going up and down the darn things several
times, and the announcements were beginning to drive me mad.


And there's another pair of belts inside the store.

I have been meaning to take a voice recorder with me because it sounds
more like the soundtrack from a modern Radio 4 play about a dystopian
future - but on R4 they would not have it as loud.


True. ;-)

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
The Medway Handyman wrote:
Yes - and plenty other examples. If a real medical emergency you'd
be better of calling an ambulance since you'll likely get faster
attention that way than going to a hospital.

You won't. You go through the same triage as everyone else. Lots of
people try it on & fail.

Think you misunderstand me. If it is a real emergency surely the
ambulance crew provide first aid? And presumably report the situation
to their control?

Absolutely. If its a 'real' emergency, judged as a 'Cat A' call by the
control. Cat A being 'immediate threat to life'. You are then likely to
get a FRV (fast response vehicle) within 8 minutes.

The crews are trained to give much more than first aid, paramedics much more
so than technicians. And, yes you are correct, they will radio through to
the A&E with full details and you will go straight in. The ambulance crew
do the triage.

Didn't read your post properly, sorry. Many people with relatively minor
problems do call an ambulance believing they can jump the queue at A&E, but
they don't. The crew won't call A&E unless they have to, in which case you
go through the normal triage proceedure.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

in 238303 20091105 095750 "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:


Others on this thread have suggested an alternative -- pay on exit.

Sounds like a way of having the carpark jammed with abandoned cars. And
also requires more sophisticated equipment than a simple ticket machine.

It works. Car park at QA Hospital Portsmouth is operated by NCP. You collect
a token on entry and pay at a machine before leaving. Standard NCP procedure.
Of course, as NCP is a private profit-making venture the ethics of making a profit
out of sickness and illness are debatable.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:16:55 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

As regards outpatient treatment, *most* could make use of public
transport or if they are too infirm for this facilities provided
by
the hospital.

The chances of the bus timetable fitting with an hospital
appointment
are so close to zero that they may as well be zero.

So what happens if you don't own a car - or are unfit to drive? If
you're relying on someone else to drive you then do they have to have
free parking on the premises?

I don't think I have ever advocated free hospital parking just a
sensible charging method.

Having to guess how long your out patients appointment is going to
take is daft. When I bust me ankle last year the outpatients visits
could be anything from 15 mins to over an hour.

Having to worry about having some (undefined amount of) loose change
when taking some one to hospital. I don't use much cash, everything
goes on plastic, as parking is generally free around here I don't
need to keep coins in the car.

Having to abandon your child in A&E just to move your car from the
short stay A&E spaces is not good for the childs well being. And
could delay treatment if you aren't present to give consent etc...

Pay on exit is so much better. You can sort out the money whilst
waiting or on leaving after treatment when the pressure is off.

But you live in the metropolis of London with probably the best PT
system in the country. For the vast majority of the country PT
barely
exists.

Most drivers can't be bothered with it even if it were perfect.

If I lived in London I'd probably not have a car. I know several
people who don't have cars, indeed don't have driving licences, who
live in London. A car is just an expensive PITA due to the traffic
and parking problems.

Out here a car is almost essential. I say "almost" 'cause I could use
a push bike to go basic grocery shopping only in town 2.5 miles away
(though the 400' rise on the way back would keep me fit!). Any other
shopping is more or less a day trip by car. By PT it would be a day
trip and may not leave you much shopping time either and I'd still
have to get those 2.5 miles into town and back covered somehow as
well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:01:15 GMT, The Medway Handyman wrote:

My daughter has been called out to; run out of paracetamol, baby has
been crying for nearly an hour, bad period pains, my £20 blood pressure
monitor tells me I'm nearly dead (the £16k one in the ambulance didn't)
etc etc.

I really think that ambulances attending calls like that ought to be
charged for, say £50 a time.

Not to mention numerous scroats od'ing on drugs and endless drunks.

Back of the queue.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
...
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:14:00 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

You'd be amazed what some people consider is an emergency.

Quite, caught "Real Life Rescues" or something similar the other
night. One of the 999 operators related a tale of someone calling 999
as they couldn't find their TV remote and didn't know how to switch
off their TV without it.

My daughter has been called out to; run out of paracetamol, baby has been
crying for nearly an hour, bad period pains, my £20 blood pressure monitor
tells me I'm nearly dead (the £16k one in the ambulance didn't) etc etc.
Not to mention numerous scroats od'ing on drugs and endless drunks.

Blood Sweat & Tea is a good read.

And available for free (thanks to the author) at
http://www.archive.org/details/BloodSweatandTea

Cheers

Mark

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:27:19 +0000 (GMT) Dave Liquorice wrote :
Having to guess how long your out patients appointment is going to
take is daft. When I bust me ankle last year the outpatients visits
could be anything from 15 mins to over an hour.

Worse here in Melbourne at the Alfred Hospital anyway: I came off my
bike in July and fractured my pelvis - six weeks on crutches, no op
necessary fortunately. Three follow up outpatient appointments,
typically 0940 appointment = getting called in at 11.30. Parking is
pay on exit, say 2-3 hours A$12 = £6.60

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on' Melbourne, Australia
www.superbeam.co.uk www.superbeam.com www.greentram.com