In article et, Dave
Liquorice scribeth thus
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:46:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I wondere if the line was DC, but when he stood up he was close to the
line and then he had to touch it so...

Others have mentioned DC or AC at 25kV. How far will 25Kv jump in dry air?
Note jump not sustain an arc once it has started.


Theres 25 kV DC in your TV on the final anode of the CRT.

We used to pull arcs from those, around half an inch or less IIRC thats
to get it going but longer to break it..;!...

The sound is of two bangs. Other arcs that I've seen on youtube etc on AC
systems have a definate buzz sound. Of course the explosive vaporisation
of body fluids will make quite a bang and could mask any AC buzz.


Nope that was AC alright. For that sort of flashover that wouldn't have
been DC which are normally no more that 1500 volts on railways sometimes
up to 3000.

And you wouldn't normally use that high a voltage for rail traction
nowadays DC wise as its rather more awkward to control unlike AC which
of course can be transformed down....
--
Tony Sayer

In article , PeterC
scribeth thus
On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 22:13:14 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:13:43 +0100, wrote:

He may not have wanted to touch the line twice. It is also not clear
that the second contact involved the same part.

Looks to me that the second contact is his head rather than the raised arm
to steady himself for this first.

Could it be that a circuit breaker opened and auto reclosed that
quickly?

Seems a tad quick for an auto recloser.

Yes, on that sort of power it would take longer than ~1s.

I wondere if the line was DC, but when he stood up he was close to the line
and then he had to touch it so...

Turn up the sound and you'll hear the AC in the arc..
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:46:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I wondere if the line was DC, but when he stood up he was close to the
line and then he had to touch it so...

Others have mentioned DC or AC at 25kV. How far will 25Kv jump in dry air?
Note jump not sustain an arc once it has started.

The sound is of two bangs. Other arcs that I've seen on youtube etc on AC
systems have a definate buzz sound. Of course the explosive vaporisation
of body fluids will make quite a bang and could mask any AC buzz.


25kv will just about jump a spark plug gap/.

Bit more that that 33 kV for 10 mm IIRC with spherical electrodes...
--
Tony Sayer

In article , The Medway
Handyman scribeth thus
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

I love it when all his mates leg it instead of attempting to help - not that
they prolly could, but you would try.



Dave the bloke wasn't playing about he was mentally deranged. Or higher
than the proverbial kite on drugs....
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Mike Tomlinson
scribeth thus
In article ,
ARWadsworth writes

Did you see the guy in China that was threatening to jump off a bridge and a
member of the public climbed up and shoved him?

Yes, I thought "good on you mate!" The backstory is that the bridge was
a popular spot for suicides and the traffic was stopped each time
someone decided to do themselves in, and the travelling public were
getting fed up with all the delays.

I've always though that those who jump off bridges, in front of trains,
etc. are selfish *******s. Someone's gotta clean up the mess, and I
feel sorry for train drivers that have that happen to them.


I sincerely hope Mike that you never suffer from depression which has to
be experienced to be believed. Not just the ****ed off 'cos I have to go
into work when I don't want, or my teams lost the footer but full blown
clinical depression.

People in their normal state of mind just don't deliberately kill
themselves.

Next time your at the station just think how would you need to feel to
jump into the path of an oncoming train?..

And yes I know what its -like- for a train driver. I met one at an
inquest once and no its not a very pleasant experience for the poor
sod's who have to collect the bits afterwards either..


--
Tony Sayer

In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:46:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I wondere if the line was DC, but when he stood up he was close to
the
line and then he had to touch it so...
Others have mentioned DC or AC at 25kV. How far will 25Kv jump in
dry air? Note jump not sustain an arc once it has started. The
sound is of two bangs. Other arcs that I've seen on youtube etc on AC
systems have a definate buzz sound. Of course the explosive
vaporisation of body fluids will make quite a bang and could mask any AC buzz.


25kv will just about jump a spark plug gap/.

What, just about ?

I always thought the rule of thumb was 30kV / cm

spark plug gaps are what, 20 thou? 0.5mm

A neon used as a spark gap will spark at about 90V where the electrodes
are 1mm+ apart


Just found this

http://www.solar-emc.com/pdf/App7115-1.pdf

5 KV 0.15" (3.8 mm)
10 KV 0.33" (8.4 mm)
15 KV 0.60"(15.2 mm)

across a spark gap



--
geoff

Toby wrote:

There is a Convert Video link below this one
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fc0_1243424473

this will allow you to download it to a file.

Thanks Toby

I'm wary of using it following some comments here but I have downloaded it.

I'll post a new question about audio conversion in another thread.

AJH

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel on the
roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the world.


You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you stop
them


--
geoff

geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel
on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the
world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans & 700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Perhaps a bloke called Nigel with addenoids wearing a hi viz vest & carrying
a clipboard?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel
on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the
world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans & 700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how they
should drive on the roads

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance with
the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power line
required


--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel
on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the
world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans &
700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how they
should drive on the roads

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance with
the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power line
required


--
geoff

My friend is from Dehli. I thought he was joking when he told me about the
Indian Driving Test until I saw this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0

Adam

In message ,
ARWadsworth writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel
on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the
world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans &
700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how they
should drive on the roads

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance with
the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power line
required


--
geoff

My friend is from Dehli. I thought he was joking when he told me about the
Indian Driving Test until I saw this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0

Easiest driving test in the world ?

When I took my driving test in Indonesia I just had to sign the test
paper with the answers already filled in have my photo taken and hand
over the buckshish

actually getting into a car was not involved


--
geoff

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:04:25 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
wrote this:-

And you wouldn't normally use that high a voltage for rail traction
nowadays DC wise as its rather more awkward to control unlike AC which
of course can be transformed down....

The reasons for going for a high voltage were to do with minimising
the number of feeder stations and other electrical infrastructure.
With a higher voltage there are far fewer and these are fed directly
from the external supply. With a lower voltage there are a few
external supply points, but then there has to be a railway
distribution system (usually 33kV) and frequent feeder stations.

The reason for going with AC was that the locomotive could be fitted
with a transformer to easily convert the supply to a more practical
voltage to feed into the equipment on the locomotive.

In the late 1940s the advantage was still with lower voltage DC
systems. This simplified the equipment on the train, at the expense
of a lot of infrastructure at the lineside. The 1500V DC
electrification from Paris to southern France is a testament to the
relative merits of the systems at the time. It was thought that
developments in (mercury arc) rectifiers had made the position of
relatively low voltage DC systems unassailable.

However, at the same time the French were experimenting with a line
which had come into their posession from the Germans. This used an
industrial frequency [1] supply and a variety of locomotives. From
this came the concept of a locomotive fitted with a transformer and
rectifier, the output of which was fed to standard DC motors. The
locomotives were a bit erratic, due to splashing of mercury within
the rectifiers, but there was promise.

The industrial frequency AC system was developed from that. By the
mid 1950s it was cheaper than DC and so began to be used for new
installations, but it was not so cheap as to make it worthwhile
ripping out DC systems and replacing them with AC [2]. The result in
France is that, roughly speaking, lines south of Paris are 1500V DC
and lines north of Paris are 25000V AC. LGVs, being new lines, have
all been AC lines, even in southern France.

Improvements in rectifiers involving semiconductors improved DC and
AC systems, but did not alter the relative merits. For the
foreseeable future the 25000V AC system will remain the standard.

Eventually semiconductors improved locomotives in another way. These
days it doesn't matter whether the supply is AC or DC, though it
needs to be reduced to a voltage the inverters can cope with. It
comes out of these as variable frequency AC which is fed to
induction motors. No more commutators to maintain, which is great.


[1] 50Hz. There were earlier railway electrification systems at 25
and 16.6Hz AC. The frequency was kept low in order to minimise
problems with the commutator in the motors. Germany railways, and a
number which followed their practice, still have 16.6Hz supplies.

[2] replacing worn out DC systems and standardising on AC are
another matter. Several have been replaced with AC.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:01:51 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
wrote this:-

I rather think that the current flow wasn't that much, well on the scale
of the power that the OHL can supply.

As I recall the maximum current on UK "classic" lines is just under
200A and that is to move a train.

Anyways lets hope he's at peace now .. poor sod;(..

Yes. There are photographs of the few people who have survived
exposure to traction systems on one of the railway safety sites. A
boy with one ear burnt off and one with very bad burns on his body
come to mind.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:13:56 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
wrote this:-

and no its not a very pleasant experience for the poor
sod's who have to collect the bits afterwards either..

Then there are the people who discover that it is not always instant
death, some can live for perhaps half an hour in terrible pain.
However, I doubt if knowing that would affect their actions.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article , tony sayer
writes

I sincerely hope Mike that you never suffer from depression which has to
be experienced to be believed.

I'm not unsympathetic to people that are ill, Tony, but why should
depressives inflict themselves on others? Like that MI5 Paranoia git
that used to post his dross in every single newsgroup? It's just plain
selfish.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png

geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet,
clean, well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to
travel on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in
the world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million
Americans & 700 million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

Americans & Europeans?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

Exactly, we always knew it was a daft idea.

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how
they should drive on the roads

I know, Dennis wrote it.

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance
with the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power
line required

Just cos thats the way they do it doesn't make it the right way to do it.

Another job for the bloke called Nigel with addenoids wearing a hi viz vest
& carrying
a clipboard?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:43:14 GMT someone who may be "The Medway
Handyman" wrote this:-

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans & 700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Not all of them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZvm5H4F-aA
features a very foolish young man. It was reported that his personal
safety thermostat had been affected by lukemia. However,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoT9vTx3_ms&feature=related
presents an alternative explanation and I believe that is now
considered the correct one. The ICE train is not running on a high
speed line, but it may well have been running at 100-125mph.

It does say in the second video that people spotted him on the ICE.
The wall between the driver and the passenger compartment is all
glass in those trains, though this can be turned black when
necessary. Anyone in the second half of the last coach would have
been able to see the "surfer".

While few are that foolish, there are people who "surf" trains
travelling at lower speeds, not always on the roof but on the sides
and ends. I have heard of these "surfers" being killed in Australia,
Denmark and the UK. They tend to be teenage boys.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , ARWadsworth
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel
on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the
world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans &
700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how they
should drive on the roads

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance with
the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power line
required


--
geoff

My friend is from Dehli. I thought he was joking when he told me about the
Indian Driving Test until I saw this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0

Easiest driving test in the world ?

When I took my driving test in Indonesia I just had to sign the test paper
with the answers already filled in have my photo taken and hand over the
buckshish

actually getting into a car was not involved


--
geoff

I know people that could fail that driving test.

Adam

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 15:39:10 +0100 someone who may be geoff
wrote this:-

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

In the case of the UK, in the early days of railways. People were
used to riding on the roof of stagecoaches and they were also used
to jumping off stagecoaches to retrieve a hat which had blown off.
The new-fangled trains seemed little different, though they ran on
iron rails and had an iron horse to propel them. The rules of early
railway companies banning such things seemed quaint even 100 years
ago, but they were written for a reason.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In message ,
ARWadsworth writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , ARWadsworth
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet, clean,
well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to travel
on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in the
world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million Americans &
700
million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how they
should drive on the roads

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance with
the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power line
required


--
geoff

My friend is from Dehli. I thought he was joking when he told me about the
Indian Driving Test until I saw this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0

Easiest driving test in the world ?

When I took my driving test in Indonesia I just had to sign the test paper
with the answers already filled in have my photo taken and hand over the
buckshish

actually getting into a car was not involved


--
geoff

I know people that could fail that driving test.

A fingerprint would prolly have sufficed

I'm sure the police were only interested in the 100,000 Rupiah (about a
fiver)

--
geoff

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:18:15 +0100 someone who may be Owain
wrote this:-

Apart from matey on the roof, it was quiet, clean and well organised
compared to Glasgow Queen St on a Saturday night.

People sometimes climb on the roof of passenger trains at stations
in the UK, generally while drunk though not always. Even without an
overhead electrical supply this is dangerous, due to the height and
unforgiving nature of the line one may land on. With an overhead
electrical supply this is a version of Russian roulette, a version
with all but one of the chambers of the revolver loaded.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen wrote:

People sometimes climb on the roof of passenger trains at stations
in the UK, generally while drunk though not always.

and in Germany

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRQMlzRjRVk

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
geoff wrote:
In message , The
Medway Handyman writes
Huge wrote:
On 2009-06-06, The Medway Handyman
wrote:
ARWadsworth wrote:
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet,
clean, well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to
travel on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere in
the world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do you
stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million
Americans & 700 million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

Americans & Europeans?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

Exactly, we always knew it was a daft idea.

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how
they should drive on the roads

I know, Dennis wrote it.

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance
with the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage power
line required

Just cos thats the way they do it doesn't make it the right way to do it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse here ?

--
geoff

They are in so much mental turmoil that they want to kill
themselves. That is extremely sad and calling them selfish doesn't
help improve things.
Sympathising for those who are involved does not mean that one
should not also have sympathy for the disturbed too.

Hear hear !

Unless you've been in that position, you have no idea how bad they
must feel at that point - the strange thing is, to the person in that
position, the mind seems can seem perfectly clear and focussed, as
they often see no solution other than their own demise.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:18:15 +0100 someone who may be Owain
wrote this:-

Apart from matey on the roof, it was quiet, clean and well organised
compared to Glasgow Queen St on a Saturday night.

People sometimes climb on the roof of passenger trains at stations
in the UK, generally while drunk though not always. Even without an
overhead electrical supply this is dangerous, due to the height and
unforgiving nature of the line one may land on. With an overhead
electrical supply this is a version of Russian roulette, a version
with all but one of the chambers of the revolver loaded.

A pupil at the school my daughter went to was stupid enough to clime on a
train in Bescot sidings.

He had serious burns but did survive to return to school.

"jake" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:26:05 +0100, "Fredxx" wrote:


"ARWadsworth" wrote in message
.com...
http://tinypic.com/r/amvbbt/5

£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Adam



Sad that it's perfectly legal to download and watch this clip, yet a
similar
clip of young children running around on a beach would put you behind
bars.
One where someone dies is perfectly ok,
No-one said "it's perfectly ok". In fact the OP could have (and imho
should have) put a warning to the effect of the real content. An
irresponsible post because of this - yes. Many people will have been
affected in a bad way having witnessed this. Just take a look at the
followups and the number that have (as per human nature) tried to
trivialize or make a joke about it. Many of these are probably
shocked (no pun etc) and covering up with a macho comment.

I do not suggest that such a post should be "banned" btw - just that
warning of content should have been posted. What if some young kids
watched this?

As to photgraphing kids - yes it is a great shame when anyone who
enjoys watching kids play & growing in a totally innocent way - is an
instant pervert. This attitude is of course due to a) real perverts
b) the rabid feminist movement eg bbc etc. It is amazing how many of
the so-called "protectors" like priests and teachers have molested
kids.

The two event above are of course - unrelated.

To be fair to the OP, there was a mention of electrocution and anyone with
any intelligence would suss out what was going to happen from the first few
seconds of the clip.

The point I made was that even given a warning, I can legally download a
clip watching someone die.

However, if the OP pointed to a link and said something like "Children
playing nude on a beach", and I had downloaded the clip, at the very least
if the authorities knew, I would lose my PC for months or possibly years. I
would most likely be threatened with at least a caution or further
prosecution.

To me it's a sad world gone mad.

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:54:51 +0100, Mike Tomlinson wrote:

In article ,
ARWadsworth writes

Did you see the guy in China that was threatening to jump off a bridge and a
member of the public climbed up and shoved him?

Yes, I thought "good on you mate!" The backstory is that the bridge was
a popular spot for suicides and the traffic was stopped each time
someone decided to do themselves in, and the travelling public were
getting fed up with all the delays.

I've always though that those who jump off bridges, in front of trains,
etc. are selfish *******s. Someone's gotta clean up the mess, and I
feel sorry for train drivers that have that happen to them.

Also holds up the trains.

My last GF said that there's no point in trying to stop the train as the
wheels go through people very easily. She's had to try and repair the
damage on some who didn't make a proper job of it.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 13:27:41 +0100, David Hansen wrote:

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:54:51 +0100 someone who may be Mike Tomlinson
wrote this:-

I've always though that those who jump off bridges, in front of trains,
etc. are selfish *******s.

They are in so much mental turmoil that they want to kill
themselves. That is extremely sad and calling them selfish doesn't
help improve things.

Someone's gotta clean up the mess, and I
feel sorry for train drivers that have that happen to them.

Sympathising for those who are involved does not mean that one
should not also have sympathy for the disturbed too.

It those who park a car on a level crossing, kill passengers on the train
and, in some cases, cause the crossing to be closed thereby causing great
inconvenience and possibly danger to the locals that are selfish.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

geoff wrote:


£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet,
clean, well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to
travel on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere
in the world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do
you stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million
Americans & 700 million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

Americans & Europeans?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

Exactly, we always knew it was a daft idea.

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how
they should drive on the roads

I know, Dennis wrote it.

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance
with the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage
power line required

Just cos thats the way they do it doesn't make it the right way to
do it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse here ?

Obtuse as in "not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not
sensitive or observant; dull."

Then no.

I regard the Indian nation as highly cultured & intelligent, a culture which
preceedes ours by thousands of years. I have a great deal of respect for
India.

I simply can't see why the Indian authorities allow such stupidly dangerous
situations to occur in the first place, when they are clearly such an
intelligent race.

Riding on train roofs, hanging onto the outside of buses, driving like
maniacs is clearly insane behaviour from a culured & intelligent nation.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:01:51 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Could it be that a circuit breaker opened and auto reclosed that
quickly?

Seems a tad quick for an auto recloser.

I rather think that the current flow wasn't that much, well on the scale
of the power that the OHL can supply.

I'm not thinking of a trip of the breaker due to overload but due to earth
leakage. The auto recloser on the 11kV that feeds us trips on earth
leakage. One of the insulators starting tracking over on the top of the
pole outside, we wouldn't have known if we hadn't been oustide and heard
it crackling, enough to make the auto-recloser cycle through it's three
trips in x minutes = lock out. I think we would have been aware of the
noise from inside the house if it was overload that close causeing the
trip...

Theres been a lot of debate over on UK Railway as to whether or not a
video such as depicted there should be used as a public info film to
warn of what can happen if you should touch those harmless looking
wires..

It's certainly an idea but not for "general release" maybe part of a
targeted campagne within schools in areas where playing on the electrified
railyway is a problem. I think the teachers would have to be told about
and consulted before hand and some form open discussion held afterwards to
talk about it.

Anyways lets hope he's at peace now .. poor sod;(..

If the footage could be used, he may not have died in vain.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:34:05 +0100, Bob Minchin wrote:

I seem to recall 30kV per centimetre between pointed electrodes from way
way back. Don't know if this is correct or my memory has gone out of
calibration over the years!

Others have come up with broadly similar figures, so your memory is OK.
B-)

So even though he's walking along with his head about 6" from the wire
he's not likely to get zapped. His mistake was raising his hand and
attempting to hold the wire, presumably to maintain his balance.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"The Medway Handyman" wrote in message
om...
geoff wrote:


£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet,
clean, well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to
travel on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere
in the world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do
you stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million
Americans & 700 million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

Americans & Europeans?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

Exactly, we always knew it was a daft idea.

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how
they should drive on the roads

I know, Dennis wrote it.

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance
with the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage
power line required

Just cos thats the way they do it doesn't make it the right way to
do it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse here ?

Obtuse as in "not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not
sensitive or observant; dull."

Then no.

I regard the Indian nation as highly cultured & intelligent, a culture
which preceedes ours by thousands of years. I have a great deal of
respect for India.

I simply can't see why the Indian authorities allow such stupidly
dangerous situations to occur in the first place, when they are clearly
such an intelligent race.

Riding on train roofs, hanging onto the outside of buses, driving like
maniacs is clearly insane behaviour from a culured & intelligent nation.



It's simple. For centuries they believed in the caste system, where
individuals would be reborn, possibly into a better life. If you believe
you might be better off in the next life, this one doesn't matter so much.
Life is cheap in India, especially for the lower castes.

In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:46:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I wondere if the line was DC, but when he stood up he was close to
the
line and then he had to touch it so...
Others have mentioned DC or AC at 25kV. How far will 25Kv jump in
dry air? Note jump not sustain an arc once it has started. The
sound is of two bangs. Other arcs that I've seen on youtube etc on AC
systems have a definate buzz sound. Of course the explosive
vaporisation of body fluids will make quite a bang and could mask any AC buzz.


25kv will just about jump a spark plug gap/.

What, just about ?

I always thought the rule of thumb was 30kV / cm

In the physics lab, we used to have a rule of thumb that
25kV could just about arc across a cm, but needed an inch
for insulation. Shape of electrodes makes a huge difference,
and things like humidity make a bit of difference.

spark plug gaps are what, 20 thou? 0.5mm

Yes, but they operate at high pressure.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , The Medway
Handyman writes
geoff wrote:


£50 says he will not be doing that again.

Three thoughts;

We are better off without his genes in the pool.

Why do they allow people on the roof of a train?

Allow? You've not been to India, have you? That was a quiet,
clean, well organised station by Indian standards.

Doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Allowing people to
travel on the roof of a train is a ****ing stupid idea anywhere
in the world.
You are coming from completely the wrong angle

Its not a question of not allowing them, its a matter of how do
you stop them

As I said in an earlier post, we manage to stop 300 million
Americans & 700 million Europeans riding on top of trains.

Who is "we" ?

Americans & Europeans?

And when did we ever have a culture of riding on train roofs?

Exactly, we always knew it was a daft idea.

We also have a guide called the highway code which tells people how
they should drive on the roads

I know, Dennis wrote it.

If you went to India and expected to be able to drive in accordance
with the HC, you would be dead within the hour, no high voltage
power line required

Just cos thats the way they do it doesn't make it the right way to
do it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse here ?

Obtuse as in "not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not
sensitive or observant; dull."

Then no.

I regard the Indian nation as highly cultured & intelligent, a culture which
preceedes ours by thousands of years. I have a great deal of respect for
India.

I simply can't see why the Indian authorities allow such stupidly dangerous
situations to occur in the first place, when they are clearly such an
intelligent race.

Riding on train roofs, hanging onto the outside of buses, driving like
maniacs is clearly insane behaviour from a culured & intelligent nation.

Its the only way the really poor can travel. The authorities have tried
to stop it, but its such an accepted part of modern culture that it just
gets ignored. Many clamber on just as the train is pulling out of the
station, not while its at a standstill,. I suppose that if you've not
seen it first hand, it's not easy to comprehend


--
geoff

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
In article ,
geoff writes:
In message , The Natural Philosopher
writes
Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:46:46 +0100, PeterC wrote:

I wondere if the line was DC, but when he stood up he was close to
the
line and then he had to touch it so...
Others have mentioned DC or AC at 25kV. How far will 25Kv jump in
dry air? Note jump not sustain an arc once it has started. The
sound is of two bangs. Other arcs that I've seen on youtube etc on AC
systems have a definate buzz sound. Of course the explosive
vaporisation of body fluids will make quite a bang and could mask
any AC buzz.


25kv will just about jump a spark plug gap/.

What, just about ?

I always thought the rule of thumb was 30kV / cm

In the physics lab, we used to have a rule of thumb that
25kV could just about arc across a cm, but needed an inch
for insulation. Shape of electrodes makes a huge difference,
and things like humidity make a bit of difference.

spark plug gaps are what, 20 thou? 0.5mm

Yes, but they operate at high pressure.

Not my choice of example ...

--
geoff

In article ,
David Hansen writes:
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:01:51 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
wrote this:-

I rather think that the current flow wasn't that much, well on the scale
of the power that the OHL can supply.

As I recall the maximum current on UK "classic" lines is just under
200A and that is to move a train.

There used to be two types of pantograph used, at 25A one and a 40A one,
but this was before the likes of Eurostar (and I'm out of date now).
There used to have to be a pantograph or two on each engine (traction)
unit, as UK rules didn't allow carrying the 25kV between carriages, but
I believe EU-wide rules now do.

However, the fault current through an arc could be a good deal more
than an train normally uses.

Anyways lets hope he's at peace now .. poor sod;(..

Yes. There are photographs of the few people who have survived
exposure to traction systems on one of the railway safety sites. A
boy with one ear burnt off and one with very bad burns on his body
come to mind.

Bad burns on feet are common too, where the current exits via an arc
through the soles of the trainers, often burning off some toes.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

dennis@home wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:18:15 +0100 someone who may be Owain
wrote this:-

Apart from matey on the roof, it was quiet, clean and well organised
compared to Glasgow Queen St on a Saturday night.

People sometimes climb on the roof of passenger trains at stations
in the UK, generally while drunk though not always. Even without an
overhead electrical supply this is dangerous, due to the height and
unforgiving nature of the line one may land on. With an overhead
electrical supply this is a version of Russian roulette, a version
with all but one of the chambers of the revolver loaded.

A pupil at the school my daughter went to was stupid enough to clime
on a train in Bescot sidings.

He had serious burns but did survive to return to school.

Bescot sidings! Crumbs, this explains things.An area of the country that
folk need a mega £ inducement to visit. No wonder that you have problems
understanding issues. In a former employment, I recruited travelling folk to
graze their horses on the organisation's land to protect the assests from
ravages of local inhabitants.

Dennis, you require our support to understand how to travel on roads these
days.

In message et, Dave
Liquorice writes
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:01:51 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

Could it be that a circuit breaker opened and auto reclosed that
quickly?

Seems a tad quick for an auto recloser.

I rather think that the current flow wasn't that much, well on the scale
of the power that the OHL can supply.

I'm not thinking of a trip of the breaker due to overload but due to earth
leakage. The auto recloser on the 11kV that feeds us trips on earth
leakage. One of the insulators starting tracking over on the top of the
pole outside, we wouldn't have known if we hadn't been oustide and heard
it crackling, enough to make the auto-recloser cycle through it's three
trips in x minutes = lock out. I think we would have been aware of the
noise from inside the house if it was overload that close causeing the
trip...

Theres been a lot of debate over on UK Railway as to whether or not a
video such as depicted there should be used as a public info film to
warn of what can happen if you should touch those harmless looking
wires..

It's certainly an idea but not for "general release" maybe part of a
targeted campagne within schools in areas where playing on the electrified
railyway is a problem. I think the teachers would have to be told about
and consulted before hand and some form open discussion held afterwards to
talk about it.

Anyways lets hope he's at peace now .. poor sod;(..

If the footage could be used, he may not have died in vain.


And how do you think that those who are so poor that they have to travel
on train roofs are ever going to see such footage?

Dalits don't all have laptops and internet connections


--
geoff

Clot wrote:
dennis@home wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:18:15 +0100 someone who may be Owain
wrote this:-

Apart from matey on the roof, it was quiet, clean and well
organised compared to Glasgow Queen St on a Saturday night.

People sometimes climb on the roof of passenger trains at stations
in the UK, generally while drunk though not always. Even without an
overhead electrical supply this is dangerous, due to the height and
unforgiving nature of the line one may land on. With an overhead
electrical supply this is a version of Russian roulette, a version
with all but one of the chambers of the revolver loaded.

A pupil at the school my daughter went to was stupid enough to clime
on a train in Bescot sidings.

He had serious burns but did survive to return to school.

Bescot sidings! Crumbs, this explains things. An area of the country
that folk need a mega £ inducement to visit. No wonder that you have
problems understanding issues. In a former employment, I recruited
travelling folk to graze their horses on the organisation's land to
protect the assests from ravages of local inhabitants.

OMG! Its near Dudley!

That does explain a lot.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk