Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

On Aug 7, 12:25*pm, wrote:
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the momenthttp://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

What's BT? ;-)

MBQ

wrote in message
...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!


--
Frank Stacey

wrote:

Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month.

*Charged calls* ? So the free evening and weekend ones don't count ?

Cunning devils. I use 1899 for day calls you see.

Graham

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

I wonder if your letter is different from mine? Mine says that, in order to
get free 1571, you have to make 2 chargeable *or* *inclusive* calls per
month (or 6 per quarter - depending on billing frequency).

Bearing in mind that weekend calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are free (as
also are evening calls if you sign up for a rolling 12 month contract), it
surely can't be too difficult to contrive to make at least 2 inclusive calls
every month!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!

Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3 which
is just laziness.

wrote in message ...
| On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
| wrote:
|
| wrote in message
| ...
| Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
| 1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
| at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
| for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
| addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
| till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
| space for a chance to do so.
|
| Chris
|
| 1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!
|
| Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3 which
| is just laziness.

No - ring someone - no ring just a canned voice answers. Put the phone down immediately.
My BT bill shows a charge for a call lasting 1 or 2 seconds. This is 1571 I believe.

Frank

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:45:37 UTC, wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!

Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3 which
is just laziness.

No....call someone who has 1571 when they're on the phone, and you get
charged for the call. Call setup fee of 7p plus some charge for the
secind or two you're one (I forget the min. charge these days).
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Roger Mills wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

I wonder if your letter is different from mine? Mine says that, in order to
get free 1571, you have to make 2 chargeable *or* *inclusive* calls per
month (or 6 per quarter - depending on billing frequency).

Bearing in mind that weekend calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are free (as
also are evening calls if you sign up for a rolling 12 month contract), it
surely can't be too difficult to contrive to make at least 2 inclusive calls
every month!

How do they define 'inclusive' ?

Graham

On Aug 7, 2:58*pm, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:45:37 UTC, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:be6783bb-f7f1-49fa-a14a-88f167f88__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i ...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the momenthttp://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!

Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3 which
is just laziness.

No....call someone who has 1571 when they're on the phone, and you get
charged for the call. Call setup fee of 7p plus some charge for the
secind or two you're one (I forget the min. charge these days).

There are two aspects to it.

As a caller, you would also be charged if they had an answering
machine that took the call.

As callee, you get the message for free but are charged if you use
"ring back".

MBQ

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:20:13 UTC, "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Aug 7, 2:58Â*pm, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:45:37 UTC, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:be6783bb-f7f1-49fa-a14a-88f167f88__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i ...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the momenthttp://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!

Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3 which
is just laziness.

No....call someone who has 1571 when they're on the phone, and you get
charged for the call. Call setup fee of 7p plus some charge for the
secind or two you're one (I forget the min. charge these days).

There are two aspects to it.

As a caller, you would also be charged if they had an answering
machine that took the call.

As callee, you get the message for free but are charged if you use
"ring back".

I'm not disputing that. I'm just explaining what the OP meant.

It's a bloody pain; the callee probably wouldn't have bothered with an
answering machine anyway, so the caller ends up with the expense. I
generally tell people I just won't call them if they have 1571.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 7 Aug, 15:20, "Man at B&Q" wrote:

As a caller, you would also be charged if they had an answering
machine that took the call.


Not so. The specific situation given was that of calling someone who
was on the phone. Even if they had an answer machine in this
situation you would still get an engaged tone and would not be charged
for the call. You can then try again later.

Andrew

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Eeyore wrote:

Roger Mills wrote:


Bearing in mind that weekend calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers are free
(as also are evening calls if you sign up for a rolling 12 month
contract), it surely can't be too difficult to contrive to make at
least 2 inclusive calls every month!

How do they define 'inclusive' ?

Graham

Another bit of the same letter deals with increases to the call setup fee -
from 6p to 7p. The relevant paragraph says "The call set-up fee does not
apply to inclusive Weekend calls for customers on the Unlimited Weekend Plan
.. . . etc." (which is just about everybody - 'cos it's the default). So free
weekend calls are described as 'inclusive' - and presumably therefore
qualify you for free 1571 as long as you make at least 2 calls per month.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bob Eager wrote:


No....call someone who has 1571 when they're on the phone, and you get
charged for the call. Call setup fee of 7p plus some charge for the
secind or two you're one (I forget the min. charge these days).

Yes, if you incur the said minimum charge as soon as 1571 answers, it's a
pain! I manage to avoid this by using VoIP for daytime calls - which cost 1p
per minute, charged by the second and with no setup fee. So a short call
costs me a small fraction of a penny. I get free BT calls during evenings
and weekends so - again - there is no penalty if a call is answered by 1571.

You could do something similar!
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 7 Aug, 15:20, "Man at B&Q" wrote:

As a caller, you would also be charged if they had an answering
machine that took the call.


Not so. The specific situation given was that of calling someone who
was on the phone. Even if they had an answer machine in this
situation you would still get an engaged tone and would not be charged
for the call. You can then try again later.


It's a great shame that 1571 and Ringback are mutually exclusive. There are
times when you want to make a ringback request rather then leave a message.
If you leave a message, you are dependent on the person checking for new
messages when they put the phone down from the call that they were making
when you phoned. If you use ringback, then your phone rings as soon as they
put theirs down and their rings as soon as you pick yours up, so you can be
speaking to the person with a few seconds of them hanging up the first call.

It would be much better if 1571 presented a menu: "Press 1 to request a
ringback call; press 2 or wait to leave a message" with the call charging
beginning only after the 1571 leave-you-message-now bleep.

wrote:
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

This not new - *free* 1571 has always [well for a long time] had a
buried condition that per month or per 3months either 2 or 6
chargeable/inclusive calls were a condition.

This *new* feature has already stung me:

27 Dec 2007 BT Together Option 1 - Charges for BT Answer 1571 2.55

+ VAT

I think there may have been complaints about using "Free" so loosely and
hiding the actual terms, that they are now 'introducing' it.
Rather than apologising for their previous misleading advertising.

Flop

ps if it is new, didn't exist before, can I claim back for being charged
a non-existent fee?

I wish

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:20:13 UTC, "Man at B&Q"
wrote:

On Aug 7, 2:58 pm, "Bob Eager" wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:45:37 UTC, wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:be6783bb-f7f1-49fa-a14a-88f167f88__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i ...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that
the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't
make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline
only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the momenthttp://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch
that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want
to talk to is engaged!!!

Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3
which
is just laziness.

No....call someone who has 1571 when they're on the phone, and you get
charged for the call. Call setup fee of 7p plus some charge for the
secind or two you're one (I forget the min. charge these days).

There are two aspects to it.

As a caller, you would also be charged if they had an answering
machine that took the call.

As callee, you get the message for free but are charged if you use
"ring back".

I'm not disputing that. I'm just explaining what the OP meant.

It's a bloody pain; the callee probably wouldn't have bothered with an
answering machine anyway, so the caller ends up with the expense. I
generally tell people I just won't call them if they have 1571.

I think that's a ridiculously extreme view. Loads of people deliberately
have 1571 instead of buying an answering machine. If you're worrying about
7 pence then you must have noting else to worry about.

tim

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:17:33 UTC, "tim....."
wrote:

As a caller, you would also be charged if they had an answering
machine that took the call.

As callee, you get the message for free but are charged if you use
"ring back".

I'm not disputing that. I'm just explaining what the OP meant.

It's a bloody pain; the callee probably wouldn't have bothered with an
answering machine anyway, so the caller ends up with the expense. I
generally tell people I just won't call them if they have 1571.

I think that's a ridiculously extreme view. Loads of people deliberately
have 1571 instead of buying an answering machine. If you're worrying about
7 pence then you must have noting else to worry about.

You're missing the point. Answering machines don't answer when the
person is on the phone - 1571 does. And it won't just be 7p - more like
10p in practice - every time you try. If you're trying to contact
someone, you'll probably call them more than once - the fact that they
have a 1571 message isn't as overt as an answering machine message, and
they often don't listen to them very quickly either. Why should they
shift the cost onto me?


--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Owain wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
*Charged calls* ? So the free evening and weekend ones don't count ?
Cunning devils. I use 1899 for day calls you see.

Eggzackerly.

Owain

But the free evening and weekend calls *do* count. The BT wording says you
must make 2 chargeable *or* *inclusive* calls per month - so they don't
*have* to be chargeable.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

wrote:
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that
the 1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you
don't make at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their
landline only for broadband or only for receiving calls could get
an unexpected addition to their bill. At the moment
http://www.bt.com/youraccount still says it's free and provides no
way to disable it, but watch that space for a chance to do so.

Chris

All I can say is .......old news

On 7 Aug 2008 13:58:05 GMT, "Bob Eager" wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:45:37 UTC, wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:40:47 +0100, "Frank Stacey"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
till says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

1571 has always incurred a cost - 5p to discover the person you want to talk to is engaged!!!

Thats not a charge for 1571 ...I presume you mean if you press 3 which
is just laziness.

No....call someone who has 1571 when they're on the phone, and you get
charged for the call. Call setup fee of 7p plus some charge for the
secind or two you're one (I forget the min. charge these days).

Ah right .Now I see what he meant .That's cos it goes straight to call
minder or similar and that counts as an answered call..same as someone
who lets the call go to an answering machine .

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 04:25:43 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris


Surely if you use your phone only for broadband or receiving calls
then there would be no need to use the 1571 service anyway ?

jasper

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:09:17 UTC, Jasper wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 04:25:43 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Surely if you use your phone only for broadband or receiving calls
then there would be no need to use the 1571 service anyway ?

Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls ***via
BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could have
1571 on that line and it would take messages for me. But because I never
*make* a call via BT (I always use a prefix) I would end up paying the
stated fee.

I have another line, just for ADSL, and that is never used to make or
receive calls at all. No point in 1571 on that, since any incoming call
is a wrong number.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls ***via
BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could have
1571 on that line and it would take messages for me. But because I never
*make* a call via BT (I always use a prefix) I would end up paying the
stated fee.

I have another line, just for ADSL, and that is never used to make or
receive calls at all. No point in 1571 on that, since any incoming call
is a wrong number.

Why not put ADSL on the original line and discontinue the second line - save
yourself the line rental?

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:05:58 UTC, "Mortimer" wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls ***via
BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could have
1571 on that line and it would take messages for me. But because I never
*make* a call via BT (I always use a prefix) I would end up paying the
stated fee.

I have another line, just for ADSL, and that is never used to make or
receive calls at all. No point in 1571 on that, since any incoming call
is a wrong number.

Why not put ADSL on the original line and discontinue the second line - save
yourself the line rental?

Because it's ISDN.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:05:58 UTC, "Mortimer" wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls ***via
BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could
have
1571 on that line and it would take messages for me. But because I
never
*make* a call via BT (I always use a prefix) I would end up paying the
stated fee.

I have another line, just for ADSL, and that is never used to make or
receive calls at all. No point in 1571 on that, since any incoming call
is a wrong number.

Why not put ADSL on the original line and discontinue the second line -
save
yourself the line rental?

Because it's ISDN.

OK, fair enough. Do you find you still use ISDN at all when you've got a
faster broadband connection?

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bob Eager wrote:


Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls ***via
BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could
have 1571 on that line and it would take messages for me. But because
I never *make* a call via BT (I always use a prefix) I would end up
paying the stated fee.

So what's wrong with breaking the habit of a lifetime and *making* a few
*free* weekend calls via BT? You could even make them to your other line if
you don't want to make *real* calls for some reason - a bit like my habit of
sending a fax to myself every couple of months so that my free
(PlusNet-provided) Fax-to-email facility doesn't lapse.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:30:45 UTC, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bob Eager wrote:


Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls ***via
BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could
have 1571 on that line and it would take messages for me. But because
I never *make* a call via BT (I always use a prefix) I would end up
paying the stated fee.

So what's wrong with breaking the habit of a lifetime and *making* a few
*free* weekend calls via BT? You could even make them to your other line if
you don't want to make *real* calls for some reason - a bit like my habit of
sending a fax to myself every couple of months so that my free
(PlusNet-provided) Fax-to-email facility doesn't lapse.

What's the point, and what do I gain?

The POTS line is never used for incoming or outgoing calls. So why would
I want 1571 on it anyway?

The ISDN line doesn't need 1571 (and I've stated my reasons for not
wanting it). It has a PBX and voicemail system attached anyway, and is
unlikely to be engaged because there are two channels. Anyway, no free
1571 on that because to be ISDN it has to eb (effectively) a business
line.

So, unless I've missed something, what would making these free calls
gain me? Apart from saving some small amount of money at certain times
of the week? The disadvantage is that the ISDN line has extensions all
round the house, and the POTS line doesn't even have a phone on it most
of the time, and it has no extensions.
--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:30:45 UTC, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Bob Eager wrote:


Perfectly reasonable - I only use my phone for receiving calls
***via BT***. I make calls via various indirect providers, but
they're always going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I
wished, I could have 1571 on that line and it would take messages
for me. But because I never *make* a call via BT (I always use a
prefix) I would end up paying the stated fee.

So what's wrong with breaking the habit of a lifetime and *making* a
few *free* weekend calls via BT? You could even make them to your
other line if you don't want to make *real* calls for some reason -
a bit like my habit of sending a fax to myself every couple of
months so that my free (PlusNet-provided) Fax-to-email facility
doesn't lapse.

What's the point, and what do I gain?

The POTS line is never used for incoming or outgoing calls. So why
would I want 1571 on it anyway?

The ISDN line doesn't need 1571 (and I've stated my reasons for not
wanting it). It has a PBX and voicemail system attached anyway, and is
unlikely to be engaged because there are two channels. Anyway, no free
1571 on that because to be ISDN it has to eb (effectively) a business
line.

So, unless I've missed something, what would making these free calls
gain me? Apart from saving some small amount of money at certain times
of the week? The disadvantage is that the ISDN line has extensions all
round the house, and the POTS line doesn't even have a phone on it
most of the time, and it has no extensions.

In your own words (above) "I make calls via various indirect providers, but
they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could have
1571 on that line and it would take messages for me."

I'm not sure which line you were referring to there - or how useful 1571
would be on it. But if you *wanted* 1571, you'd have to pay for it *unless*
you made a couple of calls per month - albeit free - on it. However, if it's
an ISDN line, I don't know how much of this applies anyway!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 21:57:40 UTC, "Roger Mills"
wrote:

So, unless I've missed something, what would making these free calls
gain me? Apart from saving some small amount of money at certain times
of the week? The disadvantage is that the ISDN line has extensions all
round the house, and the POTS line doesn't even have a phone on it
most of the time, and it has no extensions.

In your own words (above) "I make calls via various indirect providers, but
they're always
going to come in via BT....it's a BT line. So, if I wished, I could have
1571 on that line and it would take messages for me."

I'm not sure which line you were referring to there - or how useful 1571
would be on it. But if you *wanted* 1571, you'd have to pay for it *unless*
you made a couple of calls per month - albeit free - on it. However, if it's
an ISDN line, I don't know how much of this applies anyway!

As I said earlier, I don't approve of 1571 so wouldn't use it anyway.
The PBX does all the voicemail, and there are five numbers (and five
voicemail boxes) attached to it, so no need. But as it's a 'business'
line (because you can't get residential ISDN) none of the offers apply
anyway (or the call rates either!).

I could make free calls at weekends etc. on the POTS line but as I said
it's inconvenient. I may hook it up when the PBX changes to Asterisk,
and milk BT a bit more!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

wrote:
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that the
1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you don't make
at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their landline only
for broadband or only for receiving calls could get an unexpected
addition to their bill. At the moment http://www.bt.com/youraccount
still says it's free and provides no way to disable it, but watch that
space for a chance to do so.

Chris

Here is the 'offending' e-mail in full:

==============================
Terms and Conditions

From 16th September 2008 some of our prices will be changing. These changes
are summarised below:

Mobile Saver

The existing charge for calls on Mobile Saver is 9 pence per minute (ppm) in
the daytime and 5ppm in the evening. From 16th September 2008 this will be
simplified to 7.5ppm at any time of day. This change affects all customers
who receive Mobile Saver.

Call Set-up Fee

The call set-up fee does not apply to inclusive Weekend calls for customers
on the Unlimited Weekend Plan, inclusive Evening and Weekend calls for
customers taking the Unlimited Evening & Weekend Plan or the Broadband Talk
Evening & Weekend Plan, inclusive anytime calls on the Unlimited Anytime
Plan or the Broadband Talk Anytime Plan, and calls to Freefone services.
Other exclusions apply. From 16th September 2008, the call set-up fee for
non-inclusive calls from landlines and for non-inclusive Broadband Talk
calls will increase from 6p to 7p per call. The existing call set-up fee of
3p per call for BT Fusion, In-Contact Plus, Light User Scheme and BT Basic
customers remains unchanged.

Calling Features

We are also making some changes to the prices of one-off calling features
services, effective from 16th September 2008, detailed below.

.. Dialling 1471 to find out the number of the last person who called you
will remain a service available at no charge. The price of the call return
service (dial 1471 then press 3) will change from 7.5p to 10p per use.

.. Dialling 1571 to pick up your voicemail will remain a service available at
no charge. Customers who do not make chargeable or inclusive calls with BT
will be charged for BT Answer 1571 standard service. Customers who are
billed monthly must make at least two chargeable or inclusive calls with BT
in that month (excludes calls made with BT Broadband Talk) or BT will charge
£1 a month for the standard BT Answer 1571 service. Customers who are billed
quarterly must make at least six chargeable or inclusive calls with BT
within that quarter (excludes calls made with BT Broadband Talk) or BT will
charge £3 a quarter. The price of the call return service (dial 1571 then
press 0) will change from 7.5p to 10p per use.

.. The Ringback service provides a call back service from an engaged number
when the line becomes free. The price of this service will change from 15p
to 30p per use.

.. The Reminder Call service allows you to book an alarm call. The price of
this service will change from 20p to 30p per use.

.. The 3 Way Calling service allows you to talk to two other people at the
same time. The price of this service will change from 50p to 60p per use.

Ringback, Reminder Call and 3 Way Calling are also available on a monthly
rental basis. Each feature costs £1.75 per month, or £3.50 per month for 2-4
features, for unlimited usage.

All of these prices include VAT and are subject to change.

=============================================

This should clear things up a little.

On 7 Aug 2008 21:15:45 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Why not put ADSL on the original line and discontinue the second line -
save yourself the line rental?

Because it's ISDN.

And I suspect Mr Eager, like me, is annoyed that BT do not offer ADSL over
an ISDN line. It's possible but BT don't do it.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:24:17 +0100, Mortimer wrote:

OK, fair enough. Do you find you still use ISDN at all when you've got a
faster broadband connection?

For me all voice is over the ISDN line. Data over the ISDN is the 3rd
level internet connection backup, the second level being a wireless
provided one.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:23:47 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:24:17 +0100, Mortimer wrote:

OK, fair enough. Do you find you still use ISDN at all when you've got a
faster broadband connection?

For me all voice is over the ISDN line. Data over the ISDN is the 3rd
level internet connection backup, the second level being a wireless
provided one.

It's just 2nd level backup for me!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:19:57 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 7 Aug 2008 21:15:45 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Why not put ADSL on the original line and discontinue the second line -
save yourself the line rental?

Because it's ISDN.

And I suspect Mr Eager, like me, is annoyed that BT do not offer ADSL over
an ISDN line. It's possible but BT don't do it.

Indeed. Although it's nice to have the POTS line in case the ISDN
suffers a catastrophic failure.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Mortimer" wrote in message
et...


OK, fair enough. Do you find you still use ISDN at all when you've got a
faster broadband connection?


Would anyone want to give up ISDN if they can afford both?
ISDN is far better than POTS.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.net...
On 7 Aug 2008 21:15:45 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

Why not put ADSL on the original line and discontinue the second line -
save yourself the line rental?

Because it's ISDN.

And I suspect Mr Eager, like me, is annoyed that BT do not offer ADSL over
an ISDN line. It's possible but BT don't do it.


It didn't fit into the national frequency plan that BT had to agree with
OFTEL AFAIK.
There had to be a national frequency plan to support the unbundling of the
local network so that other operators could take over and maintain the
copper in competition to BT.

The fact that nobody has ever done that doesn't mean OFTEL could just let BT
do what was technically possible.

brightside S9 wrote:
On Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:39:08 +0100, "Unbeliever"
wrote:

wrote:
Tiny print on a letter and e-mail just received from BT says that
the 1571 standard service is going to cost £1 per month if you
don't make at least 2 charged calls per month. Those who use their
landline only for broadband or only for receiving calls could get
an unexpected addition to their bill. At the moment
http://www.bt.com/youraccount still says it's free and provides no
way to disable it, but watch that space for a chance to do so.

Chris

Here is the 'offending' e-mail in full:

==============================
Terms and Conditions

From 16th September 2008 some of our prices will be changing. These
changes are summarised below:

Mobile Saver

The existing charge for calls on Mobile Saver is 9 pence per minute
(ppm) in the daytime and 5ppm in the evening. From 16th September
2008 this will be simplified to 7.5ppm at any time of day. This
change affects all customers who receive Mobile Saver.

Call Set-up Fee

The call set-up fee does not apply to inclusive Weekend calls for
customers on the Unlimited Weekend Plan, inclusive Evening and
Weekend calls for customers taking the Unlimited Evening & Weekend
Plan or the Broadband Talk Evening & Weekend Plan, inclusive anytime
calls on the Unlimited Anytime Plan or the Broadband Talk Anytime
Plan, and calls to Freefone services. Other exclusions apply. From
16th September 2008, the call set-up fee for non-inclusive calls
from landlines and for non-inclusive Broadband Talk calls will
increase from 6p to 7p per call. The existing call set-up fee of 3p
per call for BT Fusion, In-Contact Plus, Light User Scheme and BT
Basic customers remains unchanged.

Calling Features

We are also making some changes to the prices of one-off calling
features services, effective from 16th September 2008, detailed
below.

. Dialling 1471 to find out the number of the last person who called
you will remain a service available at no charge. The price of the
call return service (dial 1471 then press 3) will change from 7.5p
to 10p per use.

. Dialling 1571 to pick up your voicemail will remain a service
available at no charge. Customers who do not make chargeable or
inclusive calls with BT will be charged for BT Answer 1571 standard
service. Customers who are billed monthly must make at least two
chargeable or inclusive calls with BT in that month (excludes calls
made with BT Broadband Talk) or BT will charge £1 a month for the
standard BT Answer 1571 service. Customers who are billed quarterly
must make at least six chargeable or inclusive calls with BT within
that quarter (excludes calls made with BT Broadband Talk) or BT will
charge £3 a quarter. The price of the call return service (dial 1571
then press 0) will change from 7.5p to 10p per use.

. The Ringback service provides a call back service from an engaged
number when the line becomes free. The price of this service will
change from 15p to 30p per use.

. The Reminder Call service allows you to book an alarm call. The
price of this service will change from 20p to 30p per use.

. The 3 Way Calling service allows you to talk to two other people
at the same time. The price of this service will change from 50p to
60p per use.

Ringback, Reminder Call and 3 Way Calling are also available on a
monthly rental basis. Each feature costs £1.75 per month, or £3.50
per month for 2-4 features, for unlimited usage.

All of these prices include VAT and are subject to change.

=============================================

This should clear things up a little.


Just one snag. Inclusive calls are not listed on my BT bill, so I
would be pushed to prove I had made any should BT's administrative
machine decide to charge me for Caller display or 1571.

My online BT bill lists the number and total duration of free calls in the
summary section. They aren't in the itemised list but that wouldn't matter.

--
Reentrant

On 8 Aug 2008 07:50:16 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

And I suspect Mr Eager, like me, is annoyed that BT do not offer ADSL
over an ISDN line. It's possible but BT don't do it.

Indeed. Although it's nice to have the POTS line in case the ISDN
suffers a catastrophic failure.

True enough except the last "catastrophic failure" of the ISDN also took
out the POTS as a farmer dug up and broke the cable... The POTS also
provides 4th level net access via a good old dial up modem. Though that
would take a fair bit of messing about to get working.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 12:04:23 UTC, "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On 8 Aug 2008 07:50:16 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

And I suspect Mr Eager, like me, is annoyed that BT do not offer ADSL
over an ISDN line. It's possible but BT don't do it.

Indeed. Although it's nice to have the POTS line in case the ISDN
suffers a catastrophic failure.

True enough except the last "catastrophic failure" of the ISDN also took
out the POTS as a farmer dug up and broke the cable

Yes, I had a similar situation where a BT
engineer^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hemployee had damaged our dropwire at the top of
the pole while doing other work. Reported at 9 p.m on a Friday in
November, fixed within the hour. Totalcare worked for me!

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com