On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:14:08 +0000, Derek ^
wrote:

On 8 Nov 2006 10:21:36 -0800, "Martin Pentreath"
wrote:

One of the houses on my street of victorian terraces has just been
"refurbished" which has included the replacement of wooden sash windows
with nasty plastic casement ones.

I think I'll contact the relevant department at the local council
tomorrow. Somehow I suspect they won't do very much. Even if they do
take an interest it would be very easy for the developer to say that
the windows have been in there for a while (the street was only
designated as a conservation area about five years ago). Anyone have
any experience of this type of thing?

Yes across the Knavesmire in York (a very sensitive area, opposite the
racecourse) they made someone rip out some unsuitable reecently
installed plastic windows (IMO they are *all* unsuitable) and restore
the building.

However Councils can and do take what view they want of issues, and
the can also choose those which they address, and those which they let
pass.

Do you have any influence in your community?

Member of the local golf club, Chamber of Trade etc.

Sometimes there's a local Civic Society, who take an active interest
in this type of subject.

--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:01:36 -0000, "Aaron Borbora"
wrote:

One of the professors here is disabled. She installed PVC doors so that she
could easily get in and out of her house.

IME experience PVC doors and architraves are far worse than
traditional wood for access. The greater thickness of the sections
makes for deep thresholds to be got-over, thick ugly architraves
equates to small doors, and correspondingly restricted space in the
doorway.

What is she a professor of ??

They started to harass her about
it, but I believe she just paid the fine and kept her doors.

She "fought" for *Plastic* . The mind boggles.

AIUI that can't be an option, except maybe in extremis, her choice,
let it go to court, tough it out from there.

It was in the times last year.

Good, if you could just post a link to it we can see what it is all
about, and suss it out.

DG

Aaron Borbora ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

If he didn't like the rules, he shouldn't have bought the house, and
left it for somebody that does appreciate a conservation area.

applause

Why should other people have any control over what he does with his
property? If they don't like it perhaps they should pay for it.

Or perhaps they should live somewhere without planning or conservation
rules...?

On 2006-11-08 18:46:57 +0000, "Marconi" said:


"Martin Pentreath" wrote in message
ups.com...
One of the houses on my street of victorian terraces has just been
"refurbished" which has included the replacement of wooden sash windows
with nasty plastic casement ones.

I think I'll contact the relevant department at the local council
tomorrow. Somehow I suspect they won't do very much. Even if they do
take an interest it would be very easy for the developer to say that
the windows have been in there for a while (the street was only
designated as a conservation area about five years ago). Anyone have
any experience of this type of thing?

If your life is so dull and boring, have you thought of becoming a Refuse
Bin Inspector?

... or an actuary.

These are people who found accountancy too exciting.

"Derek ^" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:01:36 -0000, "Aaron Borbora"
wrote:

One of the professors here is disabled. She installed PVC doors so that
she
could easily get in and out of her house.

IME experience PVC doors and architraves are far worse than
traditional wood for access. The greater thickness of the sections
makes for deep thresholds to be got-over, thick ugly architraves
equates to small doors, and correspondingly restricted space in the
doorway.

I did think that, but that was what she claimed.

What is she a professor of ??

Physiology, specialising in smooth muscle.

They started to harass her about
it, but I believe she just paid the fine and kept her doors.

She "fought" for *Plastic* . The mind boggles.

She must have felt it was the only option for her.

AIUI that can't be an option, except maybe in extremis, her choice,
let it go to court, tough it out from there.

That is what she did.

It was in the times last year.

Good, if you could just post a link to it we can see what it is all
about, and suss it out.

http://www.cherwell.org/news/disable...to_crown_court
http://www.cherwell.org/disabled_don...ospect_of_jail
Not the Times article, but the same thing.

DG

Derek ^ wrote:

Good, if you could just post a link to it we can see what it is all
about, and suss it out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/o...re/4463470.stm

On 8 Nov 2006 11:00:07 -0800 Martin Pentreath wrote :
Why do I have a feeling that I've unleashed something worse than combi
wars?

More than one of us I suspect would cite Voltai "I do not like
plastic windows, but I will defend to the death your right to have them
on your house if you so choose".

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On 08 Nov 2006 19:30:21 GMT Adrian wrote :
If you don't like the restrictions, don't buy in a conservation area.
It really is that simple. If you do, then you should expect to be
pulled up if you breach those rules.

Remember that some of us didn't buy in Conservation Areas. I bought,
then the CA was foisted on me.

I was lucky to be tipped off so got the big tree in my garden cut down
before C-Day, otherwise my rights to do what I want with a tree I
planted in my garden would be subject to the whims of a council officer.
If I plant a tree now and its trunk grows beyond milk bottle diameter I
lose the option to take it down if I want a shed, patio, or just more
sunshine. So no more trees in my garden.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

Grunff wrote in news:45522a7a$0$632$bed64819
@news.gradwell.net:

Martin Pentreath wrote:

I just don't like the new windows.

But they aren't on your house!


I must be particularly anal

Nooo? Really??


because
I feel the same way about satellite dishes and wheelie bins. Luckily
the rules are on my side in my neighbourhood.

ROFL - the others are right, you really do have way too much time on
your hands.


Why do I have a feeling that I've unleashed something worse than combi
wars?

Because no one likes people who unnecessarily interfere in other
people's lives?



OK. Next time I see someone vandalising your car, or a paedophile
chatting to your kids, I'll try and remember not to interfere in your
life. Right ?

Terry W.

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 18:37:22 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Martin Pentreath wrote:
One of the houses on my street of victorian terraces has just been
"refurbished" which has included the replacement of wooden sash windows
with nasty plastic casement ones.

I think I'll contact the relevant department at the local council
tomorrow. Somehow I suspect they won't do very much. Even if they do
take an interest it would be very easy for the developer to say that
the windows have been in there for a while (the street was only
designated as a conservation area about five years ago). Anyone have
any experience of this type of thing?


Just what is you f&^#ing problem? It's bad enough that we have these
idiotic conservation rules, without people like you going round
reporting others.

There wouldn't be any point in conservation areas if people did not
report breaches of the rules.

From your response, I would guess you think there isn't any point. I
think most people would disagree.

Honestly, hand on heart, how is this impacting your
quality of life?

If you *really* can't understand that, then I pity you.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The ultimate reason is "because."
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:07:50 +0000, Grunff wrote:

wrote:

If he didn't like
the rules, he shouldn't have bought the house, and left it for somebody
that does appreciate a conservation area.


While I agree with that sentiment to some degree, reporting someone for
breaking the rules in a way that really doesn't affect you in any way is
just not on.

It does affect him.

He will see hat house standing out like a sore thumb every time he
passes it.

And on a purely financial basis it will change the tone of the
neighbourhood, thus potentially affecting house prices when he wants
to sell.

You may not like conservation areas, but they are imposed for a
reason.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
....I'm sorry, Reality is not in service at this time.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:30:28 GMT, "Phil L"
wrote:

Martin Pentreath wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:

The glass will have date codes so the council will be able to check.
If the fail to act then report them to the Local government
ombudsman.

Thanks Peter, didn't know about date codes, a veritable busybodies
charter!

Hi again Grunff, good thing we're not neighbours, eh? ;-)

Before you embark on your latest quest, be aware that he has full access to
all complaints, IE he can (and probably will) go to the council and will be
shown letters, transcripts of phone calls and meetings, and any other
official complaints made against him by you or anyone else

Only if the council are *seriously* breaching the DPA.

He will normally be allowed to see copies of the text of any
complaints, with all identifying details taken out.

But he will not get to see the actual letters.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Oxymoron: Rush hour.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On 8 Nov 2006 11:49:03 -0800, "Martin Pentreath"
wrote:

Nullified wrote:

More to the point, pentreath (obviously a cousin of someone else on
uk.legal ;o) is actually *contributing* to the devaluation of the
neighbourhood - remember pentreath that you have to declare
disagreements with neighbours when flogging your (probably nothing
more than an overpriced barratt) home

Hi nullified,

That is in fact an excellent point! Would a request to the council to
enforce the order (as opposed to a direct falling out with the builder)
need to be disclosed in the conveyancing process?

No.

you only have to declare "neighbour disputes" where you actually have
a dispute directly with the neighbour (or his representatives).


--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Where there's a will, there's an inheritance tax.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:22:50 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On 8 Nov 2006 11:00:07 -0800 Martin Pentreath wrote :
Why do I have a feeling that I've unleashed something worse than combi
wars?

More than one of us I suspect would cite Voltai "I do not like
plastic windows, but I will defend to the death your right to have them
on your house if you so choose".

But not in a conservation area.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The best way to keep friends is not to give them away.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:35:48 GMT Terry W. wrote :
Because no one likes people who unnecessarily interfere in other
people's lives?



OK. Next time I see someone vandalising your car, or a paedophile
chatting to your kids, I'll try and remember not to interfere in your
life. Right ?

You missed the word 'unnecessarily'. If you intervene when someone's
car is being vandalised you are assisting them. If your intervention is
about forcing someone to have windows in their house not of their
choosing then it's hard to see what favour you have done them.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:52:01 +0000 Alex Heney wrote :
Just what is you f&^#ing problem? It's bad enough that we have these
idiotic conservation rules, without people like you going round
reporting others.

There wouldn't be any point in conservation areas if people did not
report breaches of the rules.

From your response, I would guess you think there isn't any point. I
think most people would disagree.

Conservation areas should be like grade A levels, i.e. be a mark of
something of particular merit. Most of them are just another street of
Victorian spec-build. Perhaps in this LA (LBRuT) there might be a case
for 10, even perhaps 20, but we have something like 70!! Like A level
grade A CA status now means a bit better than average, not excellent.

What has not been mentioned so far are the costs they impose on society.
Acres of low density Victoriana round here (within walking distance of
rail, bus and shops) could be, and would be, redeveloped were it not for
CA status. Instead new homes are pushed out into areas which are not well
served with consequent traffic generation. And they insult us by calling
it conservation. At my church we could rebuilt the halls and provide some
really first rate community facilities. It's CA so no point in talking to
the planners - best we can do is to work on the existing buildings and
end up with something much less good. Do the planners care? No, people
take second place to old buildings.

The irony is that all this conservation is about preserving what was
built when there was no control and people could just get on and build
what they wanted or what would make a profit.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 22:55:45 +0000, Alex Heney
wrote:

You may not like conservation areas, but they are imposed for a
reason.

Presumably to keep uPVC window salesmen out of the area?


--

In article .com,
Martin Pentreath writes

Grunff wrote:

Just what is you f&^#ing problem? It's bad enough that we have these
idiotic conservation rules, without people like you going round
reporting others. Honestly, hand on heart, how is this impacting your
quality of life?

Hi Grunff, Alan, etc

I just don't like the new windows. I must be particularly anal, because
I feel the same way about satellite dishes and wheelie bins. Luckily
the rules are on my side in my neighbourhood.

In Weymouth, where parts of the town centre are in a conservation area,
I know they are very hot on this and enforcement action is taken very
quickly.

A lot of the local shopkeepers are not happy because town-centre drunks
smash their shop windows, but the council use conservation area powers
to stop them fitting steel roller shutters to protect their windows.
--
Mr X

In article . com,
Martin Pentreath writes

Well I suppose it might work, but where to **** off to? I didn't like
where I used to live so I ****ed off to a conservation area. I'm
running out of options.

Leave the country...
--
Mr X

In article , Derek ^
writes

Do you have any influence in your community?

Member of the local golf club, Chamber of Trade etc.

Freemason, Police Officer?
--
Mr X

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:08:28 -0000, "Aaron Borbora"
wrote:


"Adrian" wrote in message
.244.170...
) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

If he didn't like the rules, he shouldn't have bought the house, and left
it for somebody that does appreciate a conservation area.

applause
Why should other people have any control over what he does with his
property? If they don't like it perhaps they should pay for it.



It's this thing called society:
"a particular community of people living in a country or region, and
having shared customs, laws, and organizations."

rather than this other thing called anarchy:
"a state of disorder due to lack of government or control."

Martin
To the best of my knowledge, tho it is over 4 years since I used to
live in a conservation area, the rules are not 'legal' rules. For this
to be the case it needs to be a listed building. Councils offer grants
to people who 'play' by the conservation rules, but only if they use
certain (usually very expensive) approved companies.
For some reason everyone in the neighbourhood then thinks that there
are legal restrictions on what they can/can't do in their house.
I may be wrong, but I think this is the case with conservation areas.
Calum Sabey
(Newark Traditional Kitchens 01556 690544)

Tony Bryer ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

What has not been mentioned so far are the costs they impose on
society. Acres of low density Victoriana round here (within walking
distance of rail, bus and shops) could be, and would be, redeveloped
were it not for CA status.

Indeed. There's a bungalow on a small plot at the end of this road which
has been targetted by developers. Instead of one bungalow, they wanted to
put nine flats there.

At my church we could rebuilt
the halls and provide some really first rate community facilities.
It's CA so no point in talking to the planners

Wrong.

There's been several knock-down-and-rebuild developments gone on inside
this CA - which have been done sympathetically and have improved the area

Matt ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

You may not like conservation areas, but they are imposed for a
reason.

Presumably to keep uPVC window salesmen out of the area?

Merely a side benefit.

) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

To the best of my knowledge, tho it is over 4 years since I used to
live in a conservation area, the rules are not 'legal' rules. For this
to be the case it needs to be a listed building. Councils offer grants
to people who 'play' by the conservation rules, but only if they use
certain (usually very expensive) approved companies.
For some reason everyone in the neighbourhood then thinks that there
are legal restrictions on what they can/can't do in their house.
I may be wrong, but I think this is the case with conservation areas.

There's certainly stricter planning regs covering this CA. Not only
stricter in terms of what gets approval, but stricter in terms of what
requires approval.

"Pete" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 20:08:28 -0000, "Aaron Borbora"
wrote:


"Adrian" wrote in message
3.244.170...
) gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were
saying :

If he didn't like the rules, he shouldn't have bought the house, and
left
it for somebody that does appreciate a conservation area.

applause
Why should other people have any control over what he does with his
property? If they don't like it perhaps they should pay for it.



It's this thing called society:
"a particular community of people living in a country or region, and
having shared customs, laws, and organizations."

rather than this other thing called anarchy:
"a state of disorder due to lack of government or control."

Really. I'd support Mrs T on society if it means the end of silly rules
like this that cost people money and keep us living in the past.

Aaron Borbora ) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

Really. I'd support Mrs T on society if it means the end of silly rules
like this that cost people money and keep us living in the past.

Woo! Let's all live in identikit ticky-tacky new-builds!

Adrian wrote:

Woo! Let's all live in identikit ticky-tacky new-builds!


But don't you see, the only reason these keep being built is because
people keep buying them! It's called 'the freedom to choose'.


--
Grunff

Grunff ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Woo! Let's all live in identikit ticky-tacky new-builds!

But don't you see, the only reason these keep being built is because
people keep buying them! It's called 'the freedom to choose'.

No argument. People are more than welcome to live in Kettering if they
wish, more fool them.

But what YOU fail to see is that other people REALLY don't want to live in
them, or surrounded by them, and the only way to stop everywhere becoming
identikit ticky-tacky is to enforce planning and conservation area
regulations...?

If you'd rather have council planning enforcement officers roaming every
street at regular intervals, paid for out of council tax, of course, then
the only other alternative is for residents to provide some of the
information.

Adrian wrote:

But what YOU fail to see is that other people REALLY don't want to live in
them, or surrounded by them, and the only way to stop everywhere becoming
identikit ticky-tacky is to enforce planning and conservation area
regulations...?


There is no way we will ever agree on a single point, so I'm stepping
out of this one.


--
Grunff

Grunff ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

But what YOU fail to see is that other people REALLY don't want to
live in them, or surrounded by them, and the only way to stop
everywhere becoming identikit ticky-tacky is to enforce planning and
conservation area regulations...?

There is no way we will ever agree on a single point, so I'm stepping
out of this one.

Odd, that, since you've snipped my agreement with your point that some
people do want to live in new-build houses.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Grunff ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

Woo! Let's all live in identikit ticky-tacky new-builds!

But don't you see, the only reason these keep being built is because
people keep buying them! It's called 'the freedom to choose'.

No argument. People are more than welcome to live in Kettering if they
wish, more fool them.

But what YOU fail to see is that other people REALLY don't want to live in
them, or surrounded by them, and the only way to stop everywhere becoming
identikit ticky-tacky is to enforce planning and conservation area
regulations...?

If you'd rather have council planning enforcement officers roaming every
street at regular intervals, paid for out of council tax, of course, then
the only other alternative is for residents to provide some of the
information.

This is a pointless argument. We'll never agree and it would be better to
agree to disagree :-)

Adrian wrote:

Odd, that, since you've snipped my agreement with your point that some
people do want to live in new-build houses.

Look, just to make it clear, I personally dislike newbuilds, and I also
dislike most towns. I live in an old house in the countryside. But if
people want to live in newbuilds, and put in uPVC, and whatever else, I
believe it should be their right to do so.

Creating more and more CAs is silly, and takes away from all of our
freedoms. It creates a nasty, anal, restrictive, museum-like environment.


--
Grunff

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:14:08 +0000, Derek ^
wrote:

On 8 Nov 2006 10:21:36 -0800, "Martin Pentreath"
wrote:

One of the houses on my street of victorian terraces has just been
"refurbished" which has included the replacement of wooden sash windows
with nasty plastic casement ones.


However Councils can and do take what view they want of issues, and
the can also choose those which they address, and those which they let
pass.


Don't hold your breath though. My parents live in a conservation area
in London. Our neighbour removed a chimney stack when they modified
their house just after moving in. They were told by the local
conservation area "police" to put the chimney stack back (or a
fibreglass replica). They did nothing.

30 years later they still haven't complied.

I take it that the local borough council don't really care too much
about this conservation area.

Chris.

If you don't like the restrictions, don't buy in a conservation area.
It really is that simple. If you do, then you should expect to be
pulled up if you breach those rules.

Remember that some of us didn't buy in Conservation Areas. I bought,
then the CA was foisted on me.

I was lucky to be tipped off so got the big tree in my garden cut down
before C-Day, otherwise my rights to do what I want with a tree I
planted in my garden would be subject to the whims of a council
officer.

This is simply untrue. What it means is that if you wish to prune or fell
the tree then you have to get permission and this is subject to appropriate
consideration rather than your whim! The application has to be published and
considered by the council and their officers. That decision has the right of
appeal just like a planning application does.


If I plant a tree now and its trunk grows beyond milk bottle
diameter I lose the option to take it down if I want a shed, patio,
or just more sunshine. So no more trees in my garden.

Wrong again. There is no blanket ban on tree felling but it is subject to
regulation. Provided your request is reasonable then there should be no
problem but there obviously is some paperwork to be dealt with.

Peter Crosland

"Chris Hill" wrote:

My parents live in a conservation area
in London. Our neighbour removed a chimney stack when they modified
their house just after moving in. They were told by the local
conservation area "police" to put the chimney stack back (or a
fibreglass replica). They did nothing.

30 years later they still haven't complied.

I take it that the local borough council don't really care too much
about this conservation area.

Chris.


Not necessarily so. As the earlier poster said "Councils can and
do take what view they want of issues, and they can also choose those
which they address and those which they let pass". Incorrect
fenestration to one house in a terrace might well be regarded as being
much more noticeable (and offensive) than the absence of a chimney.
As for a fibreglass replica - Ugh!

--
DB.

On 2006-11-09 10:32:43 +0000, "Peter Crosland" said:

If you don't like the restrictions, don't buy in a conservation area.
It really is that simple. If you do, then you should expect to be
pulled up if you breach those rules.

Remember that some of us didn't buy in Conservation Areas. I bought,
then the CA was foisted on me.

I was lucky to be tipped off so got the big tree in my garden cut down
before C-Day, otherwise my rights to do what I want with a tree I
planted in my garden would be subject to the whims of a council
officer.

This is simply untrue. What it means is that if you wish to prune or
fell the tree then you have to get permission and this is subject to
appropriate consideration rather than your whim! The application has to
be published and considered by the council and their officers. That
decision has the right of appeal just like a planning application does.

Good grief. What a lot of crap to deal with.

In practical terms, Tony's idea is the right one, so as not to have to
deal with a bunch of petty bureaucrats.

Why in your wildest dreams would you imagine that anyone would want to
have to deal with that nonsense?





If I plant a tree now and its trunk grows beyond milk bottle
diameter I lose the option to take it down if I want a shed, patio,
or just more sunshine. So no more trees in my garden.

Wrong again. There is no blanket ban on tree felling but it is subject
to regulation. Provided your request is reasonable then there should be
no problem but there obviously is some paperwork to be dealt with.


Oh great. So there's form filling and paper pushing as well. That
should justify several more wastes of space at the council offices.

Do you actually believe that all of this is a good idea?

On 2006-11-09 10:26:19 +0000, Chris Hill said:

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:14:08 +0000, Derek ^
wrote:

On 8 Nov 2006 10:21:36 -0800, "Martin Pentreath"
wrote:

One of the houses on my street of victorian terraces has just been
"refurbished" which has included the replacement of wooden sash windows
with nasty plastic casement ones.


However Councils can and do take what view they want of issues, and
the can also choose those which they address, and those which they let
pass.


Don't hold your breath though. My parents live in a conservation area
in London. Our neighbour removed a chimney stack when they modified
their house just after moving in. They were told by the local
conservation area "police" to put the chimney stack back (or a
fibreglass replica). They did nothing.

30 years later they still haven't complied.

I take it that the local borough council don't really care too much
about this conservation area.

Chris.

Good for them.

Andy Hall wrote:

Oh great. So there's form filling and paper pushing as well. That
should justify several more wastes of space at the council offices.

Do you actually believe that all of this is a good idea?


Well, yes, Peter does believe this, because it keeps him in employment.


--
Grunff

Just what is you f&^#ing problem? It's bad enough that we have these
idiotic conservation rules, without people like you going round reporting
others. Honestly, hand on heart, how is this impacting your quality of
life?

If you like stone cladding and plastic windows, don't buy and wreck a nice
period house, live in a souless estate so you can commit your taste
disasters elsewhere.

Christian.