On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:54:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

However, it's a Range Rover type vehicle which can't tow or go off road,
so really rather pointless.

Isn't that just a modern Range Rover ?

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:53:54 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:43:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote noting new as usual:

Just watching some running thing on TV, 26 miles, nowhere round
Helsinki and back (the cops on the cycles seemed to be having an
easier time but hey, maybe the can't all aford bikes ..)? ;-)

Anyway, I think I saw a Prius following them (Toyota sponsor them or
summat) ...

Low emissions so the runners don't choke. Image following a diesel car.
They would all be dead at 20 miles.

Strange .. I see many folk running through busy cities (filled with
diesel cars / buses / lorries) and haven't actually seen any dead
ones?

3) It seems to have lasted the ~26 miles and only 24 of them have been
on the IC engine ... !

You made that up.

Well it's possible it 'is' made up because *you* told me the std Prius
only did about 2 miles on batteries alone? Where you lying again?

and petrol ~£1 / l you would have thought we'd be knee deep in
them by now?

A waiting list for them.

They showed you this list did they .. when they were getting 16,000+
pounds out of you for a weird complex std polluting car that only does
65 mpg (max)? giggle

All the best .. no, seriously

T i m

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"--s-p-o-n-i-x--" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:57:49 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

http://www.toyota.co.uk Select Prius. More torque than a V6. and
scoots to 62mpg is no time at all - that's if you are into boy
racer starts. In mid acceleration is ****es over most others.

Did you know that 'Prius' is Japanese for 'Potato'?

Did you make that up? It means first in Latin

Hmm. Quoting from a number of internet pages: Prius, Latin for "go before"

Unfortunately the name is rather close to the unfortunate condition called
"priapism".

As someone in the market for a fuel efficient car, I have been attracted to
the Prius. I am a little uncertain about the high purchase price, the
cosmetic issues, and more importantly, about the resale value (dealers don't
appear to like it because of uncertainties about the new technology. A
problem that Citroens have suffered from for a number of years thanks to
their unconventional suspension).

The good news is that Toyota (and a few others) have more hybrid cars in the
pipeline in the near future. Lets hope they can continue to improve.

John.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:03:15 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:54:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

However, it's a Range Rover type vehicle which can't tow or go off road,
so really rather pointless.

Isn't that just a modern Range Rover ?

Or Freelander possibly? .. ;-)

We went round the offroad course at Abbingdon (in a diesel Disco, it's
first time off road in 90,000 miles?) and I think it said 'No
Freelanders' at the gate (It didn't mention Prius's but I'm sure they
could do it easily Drivel? .. but they can't tow either) ;-)

The only two vehicles I saw getting a tow out (with a 110) were a
Vitara and a Frontera ;-)

And the guy who sets the course up tests it by towing a car
transporter trailer round behind his Disco and if *that* can do it
anything should be able to!

All the best ..

T i m

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Who said the UK? Not me. The UK had them in the 1930s

Which UK car?

--
*Always borrow money from pessimists - they don't expect it back *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:02:41 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

Down in the lightweight cyclecars
there were also several examples of simple CVTs, either rubber band
and
expanding pulley (DAF system)

Like the Honda Camino moped or older Mobylettes, Raleighs etc? My
first girlfriends Dad had a 'Daffodil' car .. engage drive, hit
throttle, engine reves go up and the speed catches up with the engine
revs over the next couple of mins ;-)

or with other forms of sliding-ball
variable gear drives.

Or a *real* 3 speed auto gearbox as in the Honda C50LA (step through)
motorbike (it wasn't a moped as it went faster than 30 mph).

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Apparently there is a class action suit against Toyata in the US now
on the grounds that real users are finding the 60+ mpg advertising
claims unachievable in real world conditions.

Yup. Autocar managed 43 mpg over their touring test. A BMW 320d - much
faster in every way - 48

More senility. He said Autocar managed 23mpg, when everyone else gets
over 50mpg.

I've restored the snipping which you seemed to have done - yet again -
without saying so.

However, Autocar got 23 mpg over their entire 1000 mile or so test. A
dreadful figure that you cannot refute. Others don't test cars properly,
as it's an expensive business.

snip senile confused babble

If only you'd stop writing it.

--
Is the hardness of the butter proportional to the softness of the bread?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:28:47 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:

The Prius has an automatic gearbox
with planetary gears which acts as a
CVT.

That's a dubious statement though.
The epicyclic gearing is there as
torque splitter, not as a controllable change in ratio.

You are learning. ;-)

Effectively it's an electrically controlled
torque converter with additional
external power input (unlike a fluid torque
converter) - but that's really stretching
the point to call it a CVT,

Split a powertrain into three modules:

1 petrol motor,
2 gearbox (CVT or otherwise),
3 diff/wheels It is in sequence,

1, 2, 3. Simple.

The petrol motor need module 2 because of its poor torque delivery
characteristics.
An electric motor has modules 1 and 3, eliminating 2, as it can deliver 100%
torque to 3 on start up. Super simple. The best.

A Prius has modules 1 and 3, like an electric motor. In module 1 it has an
electric and petrol motor. In module 1 it has a mechanism to automatically
combine the power/torque of an electric and petrol motor to give the torque
delivery characteristics of an electric motor.

Some experimental petrol engines can have modules 1 and 3 only, eliminating
2. This is by automatically varying the valve timing by using solenoid
controlled valves. This will deliver the torque to module 3 similar to an
electric motor. As with a Prius an auto mechanism is there to present to
module 3 torques characteristics like an electric motor.

So, no in-line gearbox, gear cogs, or CVT or otherwise in a Prius.

The whole point about a Prius is
that it's a hybrid.

The point behind a Pirus is to:

- Have no to very low emissions in urban conditions
- reduce fuel consumption, and hence emissions

It uses the electric motor because
that just doesn't need a variable speed
transmission (as has been done with
electric cars since 1900).

Nearly there, not quite. Ferdinand Porche raced (and won) a sort of hybrid
in the early 1900s. They were petrol motors - generators - electric
motor - diff/wheels . In effect an electric CVT "gearbox", all in-line,
where the generator and electric motor replaced a mechanical gearbox/CVT.
The generator/electric motor does the same job as a mechanical gearbox/CVT.
A Prius does not use this setup at all, as what you have sort of implied.

The clever part of the Prius is the
use of this transmission to improve the
efficiency of the engine cut-in, compared
to previous hybrids.

One again.....it doesn't have an "in-line" transmission (gearbox/CVT). The
"clever part" is that is combines the outputs of the electric and petrol
motors to give the characteristics of one electric motor, presenting the
characteristics of an electric motor to the diff/wheels. Module 3 thinks
that its input is an electric motor.

Just because Drivel drives one
doesn't mean that they're a bad idea.

If Doctor Drivel drives one it is great finger clicking trendy idea.

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
How has Clarkson managed to convince us that a car's performance is
important in a country where 0-60 is hardly ever possible, and dangerous
when it is?

Clarkson hasn't convinced me of anything. 0-60 has traditionally been one
measure of a car's performance. Nothing more or less. You can use it to
compare with others, that's all. Perhaps more important is the overtaking
ability from say 30-50. Cars which are slow in doing so are dangerous.

And, unless you're a boy racer or an Essex tart, whether it's cool or
not is of no interest.

The 'cool' board on TG is a bit of fun. You know what that is?

--
*The average person falls asleep in seven minutes *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
T i m wrote:
but with what Dribble says and petrol ~£1 / l you would have thought
we'd be knee deep in them by now?

Not at 23 mpg - they're dreadful. Get a decent diesel at half the price.

--
*Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:56:42 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:


The whole point about a Prius is that it's a hybrid. It uses the
electric motor because that just doesn't need a variable speed
transmission (as has been done with electric cars since 1900). The
clever part of the Prius is the use of this transmission to improve the
efficiency of the engine cut-in, compared to previous hybrids.

Just because Drivel drives one doesn't mean that they're a bad idea.

Indeed, it's just that he claims some pretty fantastic facts about it?

At 65mpg and (I believe) Co2 figures not dissimilar to many current
much cheaper offerings, add the extra production / component
(environmental?) costs involved in it's construction and just doesn't
seem to add up (to me anyway and I own an EV)!

Now, when someone brings out a practical sized car that does 200 mpg
with 'reasonable' performance (and I drive a Rover 218SD remember and
consider that 'reasonable') then they will be queing at the showrooms
... ?

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:53:54 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:43:12 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote noting new as usual:

Just watching some running thing on TV, 26 miles, nowhere round
Helsinki and back (the cops on the cycles seemed to be having an
easier time but hey, maybe the can't all aford bikes ..)? ;-)

Anyway, I think I saw a Prius following them (Toyota sponsor them or
summat) ...

Low emissions so the runners don't choke. Image following a diesel car.
They would all be dead at 20 miles.

Strange .. I see many folk running through busy cities (filled with
diesel cars / buses / lorries) and haven't actually seen any dead
ones?

They collapse at home. The morgs are full of them.

3) It seems to have lasted the ~26 miles and only 24 of them have been
on the IC engine ... !

You made that up.

Well it's possible it 'is' made up because *you* told me the std Prius
only did about 2 miles on batteries alone? Where you lying again?

It also recharges the batteries via the brakes and the engine, and when
enough juice it them moves on the electric motor. So you did make it up.

and petrol ~£1 / l you would have thought we'd be knee deep in
them by now?

A waiting list for them.

They showed you this list did they ..

They did.

when they were getting 16,000+
pounds out of you for a weird

A super cool looking car.

complex

Simpler than a petrol engine only car.

std polluting car

Cleanest there is, that is why you saw it on TV. Didn't you figure that
out?

that only does
65 mpg (max)? giggle

Yep some do 65mpg

Do Google on this group on Auto Express and Prius.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Perhaps you'd name a car sold in the UK in the '20s with an auto box?

What's an "auto" box?

One that selects gear ratios automatically? One with clutchless
changes? A CVT ? One with a fluid flywheel / torque converter ?

A car which *changes gears unaided*, or has some form of variable gear
device like a CVT.

Rolls made a car called the 'Legalimit' before WW1 which had no variable
gearing at all and a fluid flywheel. But of course the single gear
approach doesn't work with an IC engine unless you can accept a poor top
speed and dreadful economy.

Now it's generally agreed that "auto boxes" as we really know them began
in the USA in the late '30s, but the components are older than this.
Wilson pre-selectors were almost commonplace in the '20s. Sperber had a
silent-chain drive box (think post-89 Rangerover transfer box) with
column switch selection of ratio. Lanchester had an epicyclic box and
experimented with automatic ratio selection. Daimler also had their
noted fondness for fluid flywheels.

But none of these achieved the requirement of changing gear unaided.

Down in the lightweight cyclecars
there were also several examples of simple CVTs, either rubber band and
expanding pulley (DAF system) or with other forms of sliding-ball
variable gear drives.

I'm pretty certain the first true auto sold in the UK was a post WW2 RR
which used an US GM transmission, and Rolls continued with the same one
into almost to the '70s.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Bioboffin wrote:
The good news is that Toyota (and a few others) have more hybrid cars in
the pipeline in the near future. Lets hope they can continue to improve.

They certainly will do - but then so will IC engines.

--
*Ham and Eggs: Just a day's work for a chicken, but a lifetime commitment

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:02:33 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Here is a 4x4 road car..

How often do you need 4x4 on a road (other than for taking children
200 yds to school)?


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:40:04 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


One again.....it doesn't have an "in-line" transmission (gearbox/CVT).

Could you define 'in-line'?

If you define it as "a combination of components (either gears,
shafts, bearings, clutches etc) that sit's in series between the power
generation units and road wheels" then it has an 'in-line
transmission'? Engine / Motor ~ transmission (eg gears / diff) ~
roadwheels?

Not 'in-line' like a front engined rwd car ( or transverse etc) maybe
but an in-line transmission (as in powertrain) none the less (for what
it mattters)?

T i m

"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

As someone in the market for a fuel
efficient car, I have been attracted to
the Prius. I am a little uncertain
about the high purchase price,

Offset by free parking, high mpg, free congestion charges, cheaper servicing
(the electric components are service free) in London. It will pay for
itself in a matter of 5 to 8 years

the cosmetic issues,

A trendy funky design that attracts the Hollywood set.

and more importantly, about the
resale value

Resisuals are higher than average.

(dealers don't appear to like it
because of uncertainties about
the new technology.

There is less compexity in the car than normal cars - no gearbox. The
compete motor, power splitter, transmission, inverter and batteries are
guaranteed 8 years.

A problem that Citroens have suffered
from for a number of years thanks to
their unconventional suspension).

100,000s of Prii are made; must be up to 0.5 million by now. They are to be
made in the USA and China to cope with demand The China plant is for China
only.

The good news is that Toyota
(and a few others) have more hybrid cars in the
pipeline in the near future. Lets hope
they can continue to improve.

They all have them. Ford have the Escape already on sale. The Lexus is
too. GM, Ford, Nissan, etc are all bringing them out pretty soon and nearly
all using the Toyota power splitter arrangement. Toyota say in about 4
years every model will have a hybrid equivallent. In a few years time the
batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold more energy too, giving
about 60 to 100 miles battery range with option of grid charging or leaving
it to the petrol motor.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:03:15 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:54:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

However, it's a Range Rover type vehicle which can't tow or go off road,
so really rather pointless.

Isn't that just a modern Range Rover ?

Or Freelander possibly? .. ;-)

We went round the offroad course at Abbingdon (in a diesel Disco, it's
first time off road in 90,000 miles?) and I think it said 'No
Freelanders' at the gate (It didn't mention Prius's but I'm sure they
could do it easily Drivel? .. but they can't tow either) ;-)

A Pirus can fly. Why do you want to drive around in mud? You are mad.

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:02:33 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Here is a 4x4 road car..

How often do you need 4x4 on a road (other than for taking children
200 yds to school)?

You don't. But the hard of thinking here are impressed by that sort of
thing.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:40:04 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


One again.....it doesn't have an "in-line" transmission (gearbox/CVT).

Could you define 'in-line'?

If you define it as "a combination of components (either gears,
shafts, bearings, clutches etc) that sit's in series between the power
generation units and road wheels" then it has an 'in-line
transmission'? Engine / Motor ~ transmission (eg gears / diff) ~
roadwheels?

Not 'in-line' like a front engined rwd car ( or transverse etc) maybe
but an in-line transmission (as in powertrain) none the less (for what
it mattters)?

Boy you are slow. Whether the engines for, after, transverse or whether the
powertrain is "in-line".

"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

WRONG!! No gearbox or CVT.

The planetary cluster is called a power splitter.

It doesn\'t matter what it's called, it has gears, it's a gearbox.

I know you are hard of thinking, but I have given an explanation and using
number too. Read it again and then come back with proper formulated
questions on where you are stuck.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:55:54 +0100, Peter Parry
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 12:02:33 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Here is a 4x4 road car..

How often do you need 4x4 on a road (other than for taking children
200 yds to school)?

Well, playing devils advocate .. those who don't live on a road or
need to (safely) tow large trailers / horse boxes / caravan's etc?

As mentioned before my BIL has run a 2.5TDi Disco for 90,000 miles on
road (only took it off road recently for the first time!) but does tow
a big caravan maybe twice a year? Could he tow it with something more
fuel efficient but equally 'heavy', probably not. Does he 'need' it
for probably 90% of the rest of the time .. definitely not.

He can afford to drive it (at the moment) because he get's an
allowance as part of his salery and chooses to drive it because it's
suits his driving style (slow) and gives him confidence because of the
height of the driving position (he also has a bad eye). To be fair he
currently commutes to work by train (wasn't always so though).

He also believes it will keep his family safe which it may well do in
some circumstances but potentiallly to the cost of other folks /
families in more 'standard' sized cars?

What if we all adopted that stance, what would *they* buy then?

All the best ..

T i m

p.s. If we want to get somewhere quicker / cheaper we go in my 218SD
Rover (so that must say something!) ;-)

T i m wrote:
What if we all adopted that stance, what would *they* buy then?

Scorpion tank.

But you need a track vehicle licence for those, 3 hours at the local
digger training centre.

Owain

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:09:58 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


There is less compexity in the car than normal cars - no gearbox.

I would hardly describe the typical gearbox as 'complex', and why
would removing it compensate for the extra 'complexity' brought on
with the electric motor / generator / batteries / electronics ? (check
how they calculate MTBF's ..)

The
compete motor, power splitter, transmission, inverter and batteries are
guaranteed 8 years.

I wonder how much of that is to overcome peoples fears of 'new
technology'? Giving something an 8 year guarantee doesn't state it
will last that long without failure. Lots of TFT screens carry 3 year
guarantee's, not because that's how long they will last without fault
but because they are not viable to have repaired on years 2 and 3. As
CRT's vanish and LCD prices drop I see the guarantee dropping to 1
year (in the Uk anyway). ;-(

T i m

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Bioboffin" wrote in message
...

As someone in the market for a fuel
efficient car, I have been attracted to
the Prius. I am a little uncertain
about the high purchase price,

Offset by free parking, high mpg, free congestion charges, cheaper
servicing (the electric components are service free) in London. It
will pay for itself in a matter of 5 to 8 years

the cosmetic issues,

A trendy funky design that attracts the Hollywood set.

and more importantly, about the
resale value

Resisuals are higher than average.

(dealers don't appear to like it
because of uncertainties about
the new technology.

There is less compexity in the car than normal cars - no gearbox. The
compete motor, power splitter, transmission, inverter and batteries
are guaranteed 8 years.

A problem that Citroens have suffered
from for a number of years thanks to
their unconventional suspension).

100,000s of Prii are made; must be up to 0.5 million by now. They
are to be made in the USA and China to cope with demand The China
plant is for China only.

The good news is that Toyota
(and a few others) have more hybrid cars in the
pipeline in the near future. Lets hope
they can continue to improve.

They all have them. Ford have the Escape already on sale. The Lexus
is too. GM, Ford, Nissan, etc are all bringing them out pretty soon
and nearly all using the Toyota power splitter arrangement. Toyota
say in about 4 years every model will have a hybrid equivallent. In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging or leaving it to the petrol motor.

Thanks for the reply. You are certainly an enthusiastic advocate for the
marque.

I don't live in London, so it may take a few more years to recover the
intial costs. I'm not too convinced by the "Hollywood set" with respect to
design. :-)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:11:53 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


We went round the offroad course at Abbingdon (in a diesel Disco, it's
first time off road in 90,000 miles?) and I think it said 'No
Freelanders' at the gate (It didn't mention Prius's but I'm sure they
could do it easily Drivel? .. but they can't tow either) ;-)

A Pirus can fly. Why do you want to drive around in mud? You are mad.

"Hey, everyone, he does have a sense of humour!"

Ok, why would you want to drive around under the delusion that what
you drive changes yer personallity! ("hip and trendy" indeed ..) ;-)

T i m

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bioboffin wrote:
The good news is that Toyota (and a few others) have more hybrid
cars in the pipeline in the near future. Lets hope they can continue
to improve.

They certainly will do - but then so will IC engines.

They have certainly improved over the years, but the rate of improvement
appears to be slowing. Petrol prices, on the other hand, are increasing
dramatically.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:09:58 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Resisuals are higher than average.

Oh come off it !

Technically it's a fascinating idea - maybe even a great one. But it
depends on a battery of huge cost and unknown service life. While it's
in warranty, this battery isn't a problem but it does mean that an
out-of-warranty Priapus is a very risky deal. Even if it's a great car,
the simple economics (and particuarly the low value of S/H cars in
general) mean that's it's likely to have a service life similar to that
of a Yugo. 8 years of "warranty" life, then kicked around the 200 quid
bargain bucket trade as a "run it till it breaks" motor. In the
meantime, the residuals are already at barrel-bottom levels.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:40:04 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

You are learning. ;-)

Oh do **** off, you imbecile. I've forgotten more about transmission
design than you know about selling hacksaws.


Oh, and Dave - first automatic transmission I can find was the Manly-La
France hydraulic one of 1907, used on light waggons and delivery
vehicles. It was a variable stroke hydraulic transmission with a 5
cylinder radial pump and a pair of directly-couple hydraulic motors.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:51:47 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


3) It seems to have lasted the ~26 miles and only 24 of them have been
on the IC engine ... !

You made that up.

Well it's possible it 'is' made up because *you* told me the std Prius
only did about 2 miles on batteries alone? Where you lying again?

It also recharges the batteries via the brakes and the engine, and when
enough juice it them moves on the electric motor. So you did make it up.

What's that got to do with it? (answer, 'nothing' as usual). Regen is
only any value when you are at a reasonable speed and if the engine is
running it's not running on 'batteries alone' IS IT scheesh.

when they were getting 16,000+
pounds out of you for a weird

A super cool looking car.

splutter that's another keyboard you owe me!

complex

Simpler than a petrol engine only car.

Hmm, that must be a different definition of the term 'simpler' than
the rest of us understand? You still have ALL the coponents of a
traditional car excepting you can't change gear (but still have a
casing with gears in). You also have several EXTRA items making the
whole thing more complex (complex = less simple) (again, check how
they generate the MTBF for something).

std polluting car

Cleanest there is, that is why you saw it on TV.

It's the only place I've seen one though .. all vehicles are pollution
free on TV .. you can look directly at the Sun on TV too .. (no, not
your newspaper).

Do Google on this group on Auto Express and Prius.

No. A mate in Canada has a hybrid for a couple of weeks ... I'll see
what he says thanks.

T i m

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:44:16 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
but with what Dribble says and petrol ~£1 / l you would have thought
we'd be knee deep in them by now?

Not at 23 mpg - they're dreadful. Get a decent diesel at half the price.

lol. Got one Dave, at 1/160th of the price (Rover 218SD 'given' to me
by a mate for 100 quid with 6 months tax g). 50 mpg, 70 mph and it
can tow (the Prius can't) seats 5 and has a large hatch / boot (that's
not full of batteries or combi boiler catalogues). Not my personal
choice of car but I've grown to love it (or my wallet has!). The 22
year old, 97k Sierrra cost nothing to run in parts but still only did
HALF the mpg of the Rover?

I put a new rear exhaust box on it last week .. £17+ vat ...and 10
mins to fit. A mate bought a top hose for his Toyota Celica and it
cost him £65!

I wonder how long it would take even at Dribbles magical 65 mpg before
a Prius would start saving me money ..? 15 mpg difference, 5000 miles
a year, 16k for a Prius ... ?

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 14:56:42 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:


The whole point about a Prius is that it's a hybrid. It uses the
electric motor because that just doesn't need a variable speed
transmission (as has been done with electric cars since 1900). The
clever part of the Prius is the use of this transmission to improve the
efficiency of the engine cut-in, compared to previous hybrids.

Just because Drivel drives one doesn't mean that they're a bad idea.

Indeed, it's just that he claims some pretty fantastic facts about it?

At 65mpg

Do a Google on this group; Auto Express and Prius. 65mpg they got.

and (I believe) Co2 figures not dissimilar to many current
much cheaper offerings,

But it is not running on the engine all the time so overall far, far less.
You can't figure this out can you?

add the extra production / component
(environmental?)

Less components in a Prius.

costs involved in it's construction

Same as any other car.

and just doesn't seem to add up
(to me anyway and I own an EV)!

You are confused. Your EC is 30 years old and a dog.

Now, when someone brings out a
practical sized

The Prius is practical sized being slightly larger than a Mk 1 Avensis.

car that does 200 mpg

A prototype Diahatsu is getting 140mpg

http://motortrend.com/autoshows/cove...yo/index3.html

with 'reasonable' performance

the Prius zips along and out accelerates a BMW 5 series in mid acceleration.

(and I drive a Rover 218SD

You have my sympathy.

remember and
consider that 'reasonable') then they
will be queing at the showrooms

The Prius ahs a waiting list and can't make enough.

Bioboffin wrote:

Unfortunately the name is rather close to the unfortunate condition called
"priapism".

I thought the long wheelbase version was the Priapus.

--
Eiron

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bioboffin wrote:
The good news is that Toyota (and a few others) have more hybrid cars in
the pipeline in the near future. Lets hope they can continue to improve.

They certainly will do - but then so will IC engines.

What the hell is he on about.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:59:37 +0100, (Steve Firth)
wrote:


"The Prius, it's as economical as a Land Cruiser."

LOL !

Thanks for that Steve ;-)

T i m

Eiron wrote:
Bioboffin wrote:

Unfortunately the name is rather close to the unfortunate condition
called "priapism".

I thought the long wheelbase version was the Priapus.

:-)

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:06:56 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


and (I believe) Co2 figures not dissimilar to many current
much cheaper offerings,

But it is not running on the engine all the time so overall far, far less.
You can't figure this out can you?

Yes. Question for you. On a 1000 mile journey, how many miles of that
will your IC egine be running?

drivel snipped

T i m

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Effectively it's an electrically controlled
torque converter with additional
external power input (unlike a fluid torque
converter) - but that's really stretching
the point to call it a CVT,

Split a powertrain into three modules:

1 petrol motor,
2 gearbox (CVT or otherwise),
3 diff/wheels It is in sequence,

1, 2, 3. Simple.

Unless the gearing between either engine and rear wheels is fixed, it's a
variable gearbox. End of story, no matter how much you squirm.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
As someone in the market for a fuel efficient car, I have been
attracted to the Prius. I am a little uncertain about the high
purchase price,

Offset by free parking, high mpg, free congestion charges, cheaper
servicing (the electric components are service free) in London.

Wonder what's so special about London if only there the servicing is
cheaper? Is it part of selling the car at a loss, as each and every one is?

However, on most cars these days the transmission is 'service free'. Most
have gearboxes and final drives filled with lifetime lubricants. And with
sensible driving even cars with manual clutches will last a very long time
before that needs replacing.

It will pay for itself in a matter of 5 to 8 years

Perhaps you'd explain why the secondhand trade won't touch them with a
bargepole? And why there are so few sold? After all, they're hardly new.

--
*Why don't you ever see the headline "Psychic Wins Lottery"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
A Pirus can fly.

Isn't it a bit early to be drunk?

--
*Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.