In article , Matt wrote:
Never seen a Santa Fe but that still doesn't stop the Prius looking
like a turd on wheels.

So what? I had two Suzuki Wagons and they made superb DIY and small
landlord vehicles. I don't feel the need to impress other people.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The 5 Series M5 is regarded as the best performance car in the world -
beating Ferrari et all.

Perhaps. But round here seeing BMWs with these ultra low profile tyres
having to crawl over speed humps at half the speed my Honda Jazz is
comfortable with does make me smile.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
I can't see it competing with the Smart - it's to heavy and the Smart is
all about efficiency through light weight, But I'd love to see a taxi
version of the Prius.

A taxi spends all (most) of its time in town. A Prius only achieves its
official mpg rating because that test only includes a low town mileage,
where for much of that time it will be running on battery power. And
doesn't include the energy required to either charge those batteries or
replenish them afterwards. Use it all day in town and the figures are
*very* different, since the engine has to run to charge the batteries. And
take it on the open road where it's forced to run on its engine only and
it's poor. Very poor for a vehicle of its performance and size.

If you analyse Drivel's posts, you'll find he loves to quote the very best
possible figures for anything. All gleaned from adverts. What a fool.

--
*You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Rolls made a car called the 'Legalimit' before WW1 which had no variable
gearing at all and a fluid flywheel. But of course the single gear
approach doesn't work with an IC engine unless you can accept a poor top
speed and dreadful economy.

And Issigonis revived the idea with the Mini - although even BL was
smart enough not to let that one out of the factory gates.

The gearless mini using a Citroen CX torque converter. It was a great
success with economy and speed too.

What a ******.

In your own words,

[snip Drivel]

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
From Torotrak: "The technology is currently being demonstrated in a Ford
Expedition with a 5.4 litre engine. Externally verified tests, show a
fuel economy improvement of 20% compared to the existing 4 speed
automatic. Computer modelling comparing the IVT to future stepped
automatics predicts a 10% improvement in fuel economy."

You're certainly good at quoting adverts. I'll bet you're a big buyer of
Calgon too...

--
*Starfishes have no brains *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:
The 5 Series M5 is regarded as the best performance car in the world -
beating Ferrari et all.

Perhaps.

Err, it was a comment to our resident ****** Drivel. ;-) Not meant for
serious discussion in this thread.

But round here seeing BMWs with these ultra low profile tyres
having to crawl over speed humps at half the speed my Honda Jazz is
comfortable with does make me smile.

Don't think the profile of the tyres makes any difference. It's the ground
clearance of the car which matters. Of course, those with low profile
tyres are likely to have less anyway.

--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

T i m wrote:

Yes. Question for you. On a 1000 mile journey, how many miles of that
will your IC egine be running?

Easy, 999.6

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:

It charges the batteries. Can't you get that one?

We did some sums for him last time he got spouting... the regen can add
about an AA cells worth of charge back in, best case.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Drivel wrote:


The Prius ****es all over a BMW 5 series in that range.

I used to think you were clueless, but now you have gone a proved it...

Found on the web:

=========================
C&D Test Results:

Prius Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph 5.5
50-70 mph 7.9

BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph: 13.3
50-70 mph: 12.3
=========================

There you go. The Prius ****es all over it.

Er, no.

There are several problems here. For starters there is the fact that the
above performance figures for the BMW are incorrect, however that is the
least of the problems...

OK, look carefully....

BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration
^^^^^^^^

Firstly the test is not valid since you can not lock the prius into
"top-gear" - its engine speed is not locked to its wheel speed.
(variable final drive ratio between engine and wheels by virtue of its
continously variable torque split system.

Secondly the test is not valid, because why would you choose to leave
the BMW in top gear while attempting rapid acceleraion?

Lets look at some stats on the BMW then:

Power output 220BHP
0 - 62: 6.8 seconds
50 - 75: 5.1 seconds in 4th gear
Top speed - as with most German performance cars, electronically
restricted to 155mph

So the BMW is massively more powerful than the prius (n both absolute
terms, and power to weight ratio). In fact it will do 0 - 100 faster
than the prius will reach 60. It has a much higher top speed, much
higher level of equipment and refinement, and it is even quiter inside
that the prius when it has its engine running.

It goes up hills, carries four large people in comfort, can tow, and
will return a combined mpg figure of 42.

Remember also that there are plenty faster 5 series cars.


Note also the *slowest* 5 series (the 520 diesel) still trounces the prius.

So in summary the prius is an interesting car with some novel
technology. It perhaps shows potential for better things to come.

However the current range will fade away as "last years model" like a
2mp digital camera. Residuals will drop like a stone.

It looks like a dog, and seems attractive to airheads who live in
altered states of reality.

Its performance is nothing short of mundane. In this day and age totally
unexciting. We are talking the "white bread" of cars here.

In short, you are exactly the sort of person I would expect to want one.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:

The idea of the battery actually lasting 8 years is crap. It's part of
the 'selling at a loss' for status or whatever in the US.

They're lead-acid batteries as well,

Err, no.

He got it right for once!!!

snip the rest as he got it wrong

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Yes. Question for you. On a 1000 mile journey, how many miles of that
will your IC egine be running?

Depends on driving conditions. In city driving, were the emissions are
far more critical, not much at all.

So you've found a 1000 mile wide city.

They have let him out again.

snip more drivel

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Mr Dingley is right and you are wrong. For your comprehension. Gearbox
is raising and lowering ratios between the power sources and diff/wheels
The Prius does not do that.

Let's see if Mr Craium gets anything right....

Yes it does.

No. failure again. WRONG

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Oh, and Dave - first automatic transmission I can find was the
Manly-La
France hydraulic one of 1907,

He said it was 1955

Wrong again,

You said it was 50 years ago.

snip drivel

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You are silly. People don't drive around doing economy runs. They
drive
normally in normal conditions. Auto Express...61mpg.

Autocar...23mpg

Any everyone else on the planet say 50mpg and above. It must have been a
misprint.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Unless the gearing between either engine and rear wheels is fixed,
it's a variable gearbox. End of story, no matter how much you squirm.

What is he on about? Anyone know?

Obviously not you.

And no one else.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Don't think that's quite the same thing - using an IC engine to power
either a hydraulic pump or electrical generator isn't really suitable
for cars.

How would you know. You understand these sort of things.

Yup, I do.

Youi haven't a clue for God's sake!!!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Found on the web:

=========================
C&D Test Results:

Prius Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph 15.5
50-70 mph 20.9

BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph: 0.3
50-70 mph: 0.2
=========================

There you go. The Prius ****es all over it.

You don't seem to read the same figures as everyone else.

I do. The ones above. Which say that the Prius ****es over the BMW. Boy
are you dumb!

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

I can't see it competing with the Smart - it's to heavy and the Smart is
all about efficiency through light weight, But I'd love to see a taxi
version of the Prius.

A taxi spends all (most) of its time in town.

Correct 10/10.

A Prius only achieves its
official mpg rating because that
test only includes a low town mileage,

You are making things up again.

where for much of that time it will
be running on battery power.

...and inkling of understanding here.

snip the rest as it is just babble

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

Rolls made a car called the 'Legalimit' before WW1 which had no
variable
gearing at all and a fluid flywheel. But of course the single gear
approach doesn't work with an IC engine unless you can accept a poor
top
speed and dreadful economy.

And Issigonis revived the idea with
the Mini - although even BL was
smart enough not to let that one out of the factory gates.

The gearless mini using a Citroen CX
torque converter. It was a great
success with economy and speed too.

What a ******.

Issigonis was a ******? He designed the Mini!!

*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

That is very true. I'm sure you do.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

From Torotrak: "The technology is currently being demonstrated in a Ford
Expedition with a 5.4 litre engine. Externally verified tests, show a
fuel economy improvement of 20% compared to the existing 4 speed
automatic. Computer modelling comparing the IVT to future stepped
automatics predicts a 10% improvement in fuel economy."

You're certainly good

I know I am.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:40:34 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:47:06 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:25:51 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and
hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.

... and which somehow, magically, doesn't pollute the atmosphere
either.

nope.

... and is taken into account in the published emissions
characteristics of the Primus?

Seeing as the car cannot be plugged into the grid, they wouldn't would they.


So where do you imagine that the electricity comes from? I suppose
that you believe that milk comes from bottles as well.


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Tony Bryer wrote:

The 5 Series M5 is regarded as the best performance car in the world -
beating Ferrari et all.

Perhaps.

snip drivel

But round here seeing BMWs with these ultra low profile tyres
having to crawl over speed humps at half the speed my Honda Jazz is
comfortable with does make me smile.

snip more drivel

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Yes. Question for you. On a 1000 mile journey, how many miles of that
will your IC egine be running?

Easy, 999.6

Have you done it?

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

It charges the batteries. Can't you get that one?

We did some sums for him

Which were wrong of course, as you guess a lot.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:


The Prius ****es all over a BMW 5 series in that range.

I used to think you were clueless, but now you have gone a proved it...

Found on the web:

=========================
C&D Test Results:

Prius Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph 5.5
50-70 mph 7.9

BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph: 13.3
50-70 mph: 12.3
=========================

There you go. The Prius ****es all over it.

Er, no.

Er, yes, the figures above say so.

"Capitol" wrote in message
...


Doctor Drivel wrote:

Corrected
Toyota Prius: - cheap to run; about
- 40mpg nearly as good as a Yaris diesel!

Tripe!! 50mpg plus and more

- Silenet running
-- slightly noisier inside than a normal car.

Nonesense. very quiet.

- very cheap road tax.
- Same as a small car.

Still cheaper road tax.

- No congestion charge.
- If you are stupid enough to go into Central London in the daytime.

If you go into the Metropolis, no charge. Brill eh!!!

- £1000 grant
- from the other taxpayers. and then only if funds permit!

Still £1,000 grant

- 8 year warranty
- on some parts,

The vital parts.

only 3 years/60,000 miles on the rest,

Which is still great.

wildly expensive spares otherwise.

Look at:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/prius/effi...128683,00.html

"It's also one of the least expensive cars to maintain. Despite boasting
more advanced technology features than any other car in its class, there is
no penalty for owners in terms of its servicing schedule or the cost of
maintenance and crash replacement parts. Taking the price of like-for-like
components, the new Prius is actually cheaper overall to maintain and repair
than many of its key market rivals. Calculating the collective price of
front and rear body parts commonly replaced following a collision, the bill
for the new Prius is up to £762 cheaper than the most popular medium sized
competitor models. On maintenance items, such as filters and brake pads, the
combined cost works out up to £35 less than the competition."


- Every mod con you could ask for.

- But no rear view camera, armrests, cupholders,
the list of unavailable extras is endless.

Yes and helicopter conversion either.

- Extremely low emissions,
- unless you drive it.

Extremely low emissions,

- great trendy looks

- Blind peoples

Great trendy looks. Yiou thibnk the Rover 75 is cool.

snip total made up drivel

VW diesel:

- Full road tax,
- but much more fuel economical.

Not so.

- congestion charge,
- very rarely.

I lot in the big city.

- dirty,
- only if you don't clean it,

Still a filthy diesel and filthy emissions

other wise lower emissions than Prius.

Stop making things up.

- smelly,
- Most owners I know don't smell.

Those who have diesels do.

- noisy,
- compared to a bicycle,

and every other vehicle on the road

otherwise lower interior noise than a Prius.

Stop making things up.

- no grant.
- The manufacturer can always sell the product profitably without
fleecing the taxpayers

Profitably for them, but still no grant.

- good fuel economy only on a run.

- Unlike the Prius, which is very
uneconomical at higher speeds and
up hills.

Still only economical on a run, and you are still making things up.

- £650 for new turbo every 70k
- cheap at the price as the fuel savings will easily pay for it.

Not so as fuel saving over petrol engines is offset by higher servicing
costs.

- Actually seats 4 adults.-

Prius seats 5, being larger than the Avensis and slightly smaller than the
Camry inside.

- Very, very high residual value.

Offset by expesiove things going wrong.

Depreciation costs between one half
and two thirds of a Prius per mile driven.

Stop making things up.

Servicing costs lower.

Stop making things up.

Insurance costs lower as
cheaper to repair.

Stop making thing up. See the Guradian report above.

Official fleet running cost figures.
- Excellent range of OEM and aftermarket accessories, including,
rearview cameras, alternative seats, cupholders built in etc.

A fairy dice too.

- Computer doesn't need reprogramming under normal usage conditions.

Neither does a Prius.

No contest, the Prius is

Brill in all aspects and ****es over antiquated filthy polluting crap.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Drivel wrote:

It is. It ****es all over the 5 series in mid acceleration.

Do you have a source for this nonsense?

I posted it.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Which has surplus overnight power.

In the 60's and 70's that was a perfectly valid statement but in more
recent times that is totally incorrect.

No. It is totally correct.

Totally wrong again, but then again that's not the first time is it?


--

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:14:02 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

No batteries have been replaced in the USA yet.

The _actual_ Prius owners (not wannabee shop assistants like you) in
alt.autos.toyota.prius reckon differently

link please. Probaly plants from other makers who way behind Toyota - a
comon thing.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Which has surplus overnight power.

In the 60's and 70's that was a perfectly valid statement but in more
recent times that is totally incorrect.

No. It is totally correct.

Totally ....

.....Correct.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:40:34 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:47:06 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:25:51 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper,
and
hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range
with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.

... and which somehow, magically, doesn't pollute the atmosphere
either.

nope.

... and is taken into account in the published emissions
characteristics of the Primus?

Seeing as the car cannot be plugged into the grid, they wouldn't would
they.


So where do you imagine that the electricity comes from? I suppose
that you believe that milk comes from bottles as well.

Bottles? It comes in cartons

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

What a ******.

Issigonis was a ******? He designed the Mini!!

I'm off for a lie down. For once I find myself agreeing with Dribble.


--

John Rumm wrote:

Firstly the test is not valid since you can not lock the prius into
"top-gear" -

Remember that in the world according to Dribble the Prius has no
gears, so any reference to top, or any other gear must be incorrect.

In this day and age totally
unexciting. We are talking the "white bread" of cars here.

In short, you are exactly the sort of person I would expect to want one.

:-)

Couldn't have put it better myself


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
John Rumm wrote:

Firstly the test is not valid since you can not lock the prius into
"top-gear" -

Remember

The figures do not lie.

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:46:11 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Yes. Question for you. On a 1000 mile journey, how many miles of that
will your IC egine be running?

Easy, 999.6

Have you done it?

I don't think any of us need to ... with a battery pack that can
provide a maximum range of 6 miles then the answer is 'for most of
it'.

Good luck ..

T i m

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:

How has Clarkson managed to convince us that a car's performance is
important in a country where 0-60 is hardly ever possible, and dangerous
when it is?


Clarkson hasn't convinced me of anything. 0-60 has traditionally been one
measure of a car's performance. Nothing more or less. You can use it to
compare with others, that's all. Perhaps more important is the overtaking
ability from say 30-50. Cars which are slow in doing so are dangerous.


And, unless you're a boy racer or an Essex tart, whether it's cool or
not is of no interest.


The 'cool' board on TG is a bit of fun. You know what that is?


I know what fun is, and the only connection with cars is that they might
be able to transport you to some.

In article ,
AJH wrote:
The torque at the output for the electric generator can be controlled
by the load on the generator, its output can feed either battery or
electric motor, so the power is not wasted. This torque reference then
controls torque at the output, thus effectively giving a constantly
variable gearing between engine and rear wheels between the upper and
lower limits of the output gearing, 0- final drive ratio I think.

You're exactly right.

Drivel thinks a gearbox must contain 'ordinary' gears that slide on shafts
to give different ratios. He also doesn't understand how a differential
works, or how an epicyclic gear train can give any ratio between two fixed
limits, one of which is 0:0.

--
*Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
that seems a reasonable enough statement.

Not really, as the IC engine is well past its sell by date, being
hopelessly inefficient.

That will be why the Prius uses one? And an ill conceived one which they
don't on later hybrids?

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
It is. It ****es all over the 5 series in mid acceleration.

Do you have a source for this nonsense?

It's the quoted 30-50 time in 6th gear in the manual gearbox one. Which
you wouldn't normally engage until 60 or so. My auto 5 Series won't engage
5th until near 60 mph even with manual control.

Drivel is so stupid he can't understand everyone would compare an auto
with the Prius. Since anyone who had learnt to drive on a Prius wouldn't
be allowed to drive a manual anyway.

--
*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
He said it was 1955

Wrong again,

You said it was 50 years ago.

Sigh.

From: Dave Plowman (News)
Subject: I saw a Prius yersterday
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:30
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y

Automatic gearboxes have been available for some 50 years.

Ask the nurse to get you a dictionary off the trolley as well.

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.