I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

Rich wrote:
I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

There are plenty of 30 year old cars around, some of them with very high
mileages.

The diesel will act as a lubricant to the fuel system and the valves.
Modern petrol (read anything post ~1970) is well lubricated - a measured
amount of larger hydrocarbons (a lot like diesel) is added to the petrol
to act as a lubricant.

Adding diesel to your petrol is totally unnecessary. In addition, adding
that much diesel to a tank of petrol (£10 = 1/3-1/4 tank?) will make the
engine run like crap.


Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Bored, eh?


--
Grunff

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:08 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Rich wrote:
I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

There are plenty of 30 year old cars around, some of them with very high
mileages.

The diesel will act as a lubricant to the fuel system and the valves.
Modern petrol (read anything post ~1970) is well lubricated - a measured
amount of larger hydrocarbons (a lot like diesel) is added to the petrol
to act as a lubricant.

Adding diesel to your petrol is totally unnecessary. In addition, adding
that much diesel to a tank of petrol (£10 = 1/3-1/4 tank?) will make the
engine run like crap.


Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Bored, eh?

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC. He was probably a
bit behind the times! Thanks for setting the record straight.

But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more. Perhaps it too is redundant for the same reasons you mentioned?

Rich

Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Perhaps it too is redundant for the same reasons you mentioned?

Same thing - valve lubricant (and bores to some extent). Won't make any
difference with modern petrol.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Perhaps it too is redundant for the same reasons you mentioned?

Same thing - valve lubricant (and bores to some extent). Won't make any
difference with modern petrol.


I'm not so sure about that, on a 30 year old engine that is, lead was the
upper cylinder lubricant in those days and many a valves life depended on
it, current engine technology is such that lead is not required.

A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with LRP.

This discussion would be more at home in the classic car group !

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement. IMM again seems to have taken marketing blurb as gospel....

Changing oil and filter every 6k and driving in a style that is kind to the
engine will be just as good as spending a small fortune on fully synthetic
oils.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

IMM wrote:

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

There is very little difference between different brands of petrol sold
in the UK. Very little indeed. Many people seem to be able to convince
themselves that they can 'feel the difference', but it would never stand
up to a double-blind test.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect. Once this disappeared we used to spend ages
concocting fuels suitable for running 12:1 compression ratios properly once
the scrutineer had checked our washed out tanks only had grot 4 star in
them.

In article ,
Rich wrote:
I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Well, the engine is probably the least of your worries on a 30 year old
car. Most will have serious rot problems long before the engine gives up -
and even a totally clapped engine can be made like new for a fraction of
the cost of fixing rust.

And the trouble with these 'my engine has lasted X miles because of Y' is
that there is no control data to substantiate it.

Everyone searches for the elixir of life - for themselves, or their cars.
Some will be convinced that a spoon of honey or whatever results in them
living to 100, while others might say it's a pint of cider. And neither
can be proved - or really disproved.

Our US cousins seem to think changing the engine oil every 3000 miles
results in long engine life, but seem very reluctant to pay for other
fluids in the car to be changed regularly - even although this is a
service requrement, and might actually save larger repair bills.

All adding diesel to petrol might achieve for the good is upper cylinder
lubrication - and there are better products to do this. The down side is
that it will lower the octane rating of the petrol and possibly cause
higher localised combustion temperatures on a high efficiency engine - and
cause piston or valve damage.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.


Yes, true, the BP marketing people do say that...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines that have been designed to use such oil as
a
requirement. IMM again seems to have taken marketing blurb as gospel....

Changing oil and filter every 6k and driving in a style that is kind to
the
engine will be just as good as spending a small fortune on fully synthetic
oils.

I think you're being a bit strong here. When Mobil 1 first appeared we were
able to stop changing the oil three times a rally. In fact it would
probably have lasted several rallies, such was it's lack of degradation
under harsh conditions.

Also changing oil and filter every 6k would cost more than using a synthetic
every 18k.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

There is very little difference between different brands of petrol sold
in the UK. Very little indeed. Many people seem to be able to convince
themselves that they can 'feel the difference', but it would never stand
up to a double-blind test.

The Ultimate types of petrol have added detergents. They keep your engine
clean. Some do give a small ump in power.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect. Once this disappeared we used to spend ages
concocting fuels suitable for running 12:1 compression ratios properly
once
the scrutineer had checked our washed out tanks only had grot 4 star in
them.

??

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

There is very little difference between different brands of petrol sold
in the UK. Very little indeed. Many people seem to be able to convince
themselves that they can 'feel the difference', but it would never stand
up to a double-blind test.


Blends do seem to differ, my old '75 V8 Rover didn't like BP, Shell or Q8
leaded 4 star back in the '90's, it was more than happy on the Esso or
Tesco's own brand, even though AIUI they all came from the same distribution
depot - you tell me !...

And I do know how to judge an engines performance / well being etc., it's
part of my trade.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.

Mike wrote:

Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect.

Ok, I was 6 years old then...


--
Grunff

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I'm not so sure about that, on a 30 year old engine that is, lead was the
upper cylinder lubricant in those days and many a valves life depended on
it, current engine technology is such that lead is not required.

There is a big difference berween the role played by lead and that
played by hydrocarbon lubricants.

The purpose of the lead was twofold:
1. It reduced knocking
2. It formed a coating on the valves + seats, and prevented the valves
from welding to the seats, thereby causing valve seat recession.

Hydrocarbon lubricants act to lubricate the valve stem/guide, and the
piston/bore.


A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with LRP.

If it's an iron cylinder head, unless it has hard seat inserts it needs
either leaded or LRP with an alternative additive, otherwise the head
will only last a few thousand miles.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I'm not so sure about that, on a 30 year old engine that is, lead was
the
upper cylinder lubricant in those days and many a valves life depended
on
it, current engine technology is such that lead is not required.

There is a big difference berween the role played by lead and that
played by hydrocarbon lubricants.

The purpose of the lead was twofold:
1. It reduced knocking
2. It formed a coating on the valves + seats, and prevented the valves
from welding to the seats, thereby causing valve seat recession.

Hydrocarbon lubricants act to lubricate the valve stem/guide, and the
piston/bore.


A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with
LRP.

If it's an iron cylinder head, unless it has hard seat inserts it needs
either leaded or LRP with an alternative additive, otherwise the head
will only last a few thousand miles.


A far to simplistic explanation, and what the head is made out of is
irrelevant.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect.

Ok, I was 6 years old then...


Judging by some of your answers in this thread you probably were....

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Mike wrote:

Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect.

Ok, I was 6 years old then...

Ah - you missed the days of real motoring then :-)

London to Edinburgh it the time it now takes to get though Brum.

"Grunff" wrote in message
...

A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with
LRP.

If it's an iron cylinder head, unless it has hard seat inserts it needs
either leaded or LRP with an alternative additive, otherwise the head
will only last a few thousand miles.

It's usually aluminium heads that have the real problems. Lancia and Fiat
heads from the 70s/80s simply won't survive on modern fuels at all. Have
tried all the additives and none work that well.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of
his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines that have been designed to use such oil
as
a
requirement. IMM again seems to have taken marketing blurb as gospel....

Changing oil and filter every 6k and driving in a style that is kind to
the
engine will be just as good as spending a small fortune on fully
synthetic
oils.

I think you're being a bit strong here. When Mobil 1 first appeared we
were
able to stop changing the oil three times a rally. In fact it would
probably have lasted several rallies, such was it's lack of degradation
under harsh conditions.

I think the operative word is 'rallies', here we are talking bog standard
road going cars...


Also changing oil and filter every 6k would cost more than using a
synthetic
every 18k.


No it would not, unless you buy oil from the retail rip off stores or petrol
forecourts...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some viscosities
can only be met by synthetics). They are the same viscosities as the other
poor mineral oils. It is just that they are vastly superior in every way.
I have used them for the best part of 20 years, even in the transmission.
The engine wear is minimal, and they still have the smooth newness about
them when cars with similar engines with the same mileages, etc sound like
tin cans. Also the insides of the engine stay immaculately clean.

The water pumps and alternators may speak, but the main engine is as good as
new. There is far too much evidence out there to dispute the qualities of
fully synthetics. They were developed for jet engines originally. I once
did work at an oil research lab. The guys there said "always use fully
synthetics, no matter what car you drive". One had a SAAB and had not
changed the oil for 60,000 miles. He tested the oil each month to see if it
had degraded. He changed the filter every 6,000 miles and topped up a drop
that the old filter had in it.

Been converted ever since and not had one problem with any engine when using
it. All, after many 1000s of miles were as smooth as new.


snip drivel

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.


You would also have had to flush every last drop of non synthetic oil out of
the engine for there to be any benefit if the oil did manage to stay within
the engine.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

There is very little difference between different brands of petrol sold
in the UK. Very little indeed. Many people seem to be able to convince
themselves that they can 'feel the difference', but it would never stand
up to a double-blind test.


Blends do seem to differ, my old '75 V8 Rover didn't like BP, Shell or Q8
leaded 4 star back in the '90's, it was more than happy on the Esso or
Tesco's own brand, even though AIUI they all came from the same
distribution
depot - you tell me !...

And I do know how to judge an engines performance / well being etc., it's
part of my trade.


I think modern engines, especially injection ones, can adjust to fuels far
more readily than in the old days. I remember having to drive only by
certain routes as my RS2000 would only happily accept BP or Esso. It really
did not like Shell or Mobil despite as you say them all probably coming from
the same place.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.

Because it's not available in the same 'thickness' as those originally
recommended?

I'm using Halfords fully synthetic in the SD1 which is an '84 car -
although the engine dates back to the '60s, and it doesn't leak anymore
than before. ;-) But it certainly spins over more easily on a cold start.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...
I think you're being a bit strong here. When Mobil 1 first appeared we
were
able to stop changing the oil three times a rally. In fact it would
probably have lasted several rallies, such was it's lack of degradation
under harsh conditions.

I think the operative word is 'rallies', here we are talking bog standard
road going cars...

Which until the recent WRC cars were at least related to bog standard cars.
Often they were just the bog standard cars with the weakest bits upgraded a
bit.



Also changing oil and filter every 6k would cost more than using a
synthetic every 18k.

No it would not, unless you buy oil from the retail rip off stores or
petrol
forecourts...

Not sure how nuch you pay for oil then but synthetic is less than three
times to the cost of standard even before we consider the filter.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.

You use it on new or nearly new cars, and for ever after.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.


Yes, true, the BP marketing people do say that...

They would do as they is what they are supposed to do. Duh!

"IMM" wrote in message
...
No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some
viscosities
can only be met by synthetics).

Do you want to tell that to my Impreza ? There's even a warning in the
manual that normal oils won't survive.


They are the same viscosities as the other
poor mineral oils. It is just that they are vastly superior in every way.

Now I do agree with you.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...

A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with
LRP.

If it's an iron cylinder head, unless it has hard seat inserts it needs
either leaded or LRP with an alternative additive, otherwise the head
will only last a few thousand miles.

It's usually aluminium heads that have the real problems. Lancia and Fiat
heads from the 70s/80s simply won't survive on modern fuels at all. Have
tried all the additives and none work that well.


Again, it's not what the head is made out of that matters, some V8 Rover
lumps (all aluminium) will run quite happily on non leaded petrol (and have
done for years) - others will last less than 6k. What matter is what types
and grades of metal are used for components such as valves, seats, guides
etc.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

snip

I think modern engines, especially injection ones, can adjust to fuels far
more readily than in the old days.

Yes, I hope you are correct, seeing that all modern engines are injection
(even if they appear to have what looks like a carb [1]), and have been for
a few years now.

[1] single-point injection opposed to multi-point.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of
his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils nip

As you would say...

snip drivel and miss information. not worth reading

Needless to say, there are.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.


Yes, true, the BP marketing people do say that...

They would do as they is what they are supposed to do. Duh!


And you believed them....

In article ,
Mike wrote:
If it's an iron cylinder head, unless it has hard seat inserts it needs
either leaded or LRP with an alternative additive, otherwise the head
will only last a few thousand miles.

It's usually aluminium heads that have the real problems. Lancia and
Fiat heads from the 70s/80s simply won't survive on modern fuels at all.
Have tried all the additives and none work that well.

Shouldn't be. Ally heads have all got valve seat inserts, and these are by
nature rather better (harder) steel than cast iron heads without inserts.

The very worst engines for suffering valve problems with unleaded are the
BMC A and B series which have low grade cast iron heads and siamese
exhaust valve ports on cylinders 2&3.

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm using Halfords fully synthetic in the SD1 which is an '84 car -
although the engine dates back to the '60s, and it doesn't leak anymore
than before. ;-) But it certainly spins over more easily on a cold start.


Don't you mean 50's Dave, ex Buick lump and all that ?...

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

A far to simplistic explanation, and what the head is made out of is
irrelevant.


Only if you have no understanding whatsoever of the mechanism involved
in valve seat recession! Have you been taking lessons from IMM? You're
starting to sound an awful lot like him.


--
Grunff

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect.

Ok, I was 6 years old then...

I'm not saying nuffink.

Quiet at the back there please

--
geoff