I have read the entire recent thread on putting petrol into a diesel
engine. However that scenario was about 10% or less added.

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less
than one mile down the road the engine started juddering. She realised
her mistake and stopped and called the AA. They advised not driving any
further to avoid damage. The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

The car is a one year old mercedes cdi estate. Does anyone think they
could be right - or are they likely to be greatly exaggerating?

--
Matthew Barnard

Matthew Barnard wrote:

The car is a one year old mercedes cdi estate. Does anyone think they
could be right

Yes.

- or are they likely to be greatly exaggerating?

Not likely.

--
Grunff

"Matthew Barnard" wrote in message
...
I have read the entire recent thread on putting petrol into a diesel
engine. However that scenario was about 10% or less added.

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less
than one mile down the road the engine started juddering. She realised
her mistake and stopped and called the AA. They advised not driving any
further to avoid damage. The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

It never ceases to amaze me how people can do this - there is usually a big
sticker stating "DIESEL" inside the filler flap, the filler hole is a
different size (larger) than for petrol, and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?

Sheesh.

Hellraiser...........

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

"Matthew Barnard" wrote in message
...
I have read the entire recent thread on putting petrol into a diesel
engine. However that scenario was about 10% or less added.

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less
than one mile down the road the engine started juddering. She realised
her mistake and stopped and called the AA. They advised not driving any
further to avoid damage. The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

It never ceases to amaze me how people can do this - there is usually a big
sticker stating "DIESEL" inside the filler flap,

no there isn't (not in mine)

the filler hole is a different size (larger) than for petrol,

how does this stop someone putting the smaller nozzle in exactly?

and surely you can tell it's a diesel by the rattling noise it makes?

I'm sure at the point of driving it you can tell the difference,
but if you drive one of two cars, it must be all too easy to
absentmindedly fill up from the wrong pump. (Just like
occasionally, I still drive out of a drive onto the wrong side
of the road!)

tim


Sheesh.

Hellraiser...........

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 21:02:35 +0100, Matthew Barnard
wrote:

They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

So what is this huge bill for ?

What are they alleging that you've bust ?

A tankload of petrol is going to run badly, it might even stop it (but
usually doesn't) and it only injures stuff if you either make a habit
of it regularly (injection pumps need proper lubrication) or you
thrash the engine while it's in this mis-firing state.

A mile of gentle driving just isn't going to hurt anything terminal.
Even if you have to pull the injectors out to clean them, that's not
rocket-science, even on a Merc.

The car is a one year old mercedes cdi estate.

Well that's your trouble isn't it. Putting petrol in it (or anything
that's clearly driver error) plays havoc with the star-shaped badges
on it, especially the new ones. You wouldn't believe the price of
fixing them, but you don't have much choice - especially not on a new
car.

Does anyone think they could be right

Of course they're right.

"To repair one-year-old Merc and maintain Full Service History
- mongo moolah"


- or are they likely to be greatly exaggerating?

On my motor (whichever old shed you pick) I'd pump the tank as best I
could, top it off with Jet A-1 or whatever the appropriate fuel was,
replace the fuel filters and then bleed the fuel system from up-front
as best I could. Run it with my fingers in my ears until the nasty
noises went away, then probably replace the filters again.

The tank drainage goes in the tractor, because that's Romanian and
doesn't care what it drinks.

Andy Dingley wrote:

A mile of gentle driving just isn't going to hurt anything terminal.

I dunno - I've seen holes in pistons after only a few minutes
running a diesel on petrol.

--
Grunff

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...
....and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?

In a Land Rover Defender, yes. In a one year old Mercedes, no.

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:32:16 +0100, Grunff wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

A mile of gentle driving just isn't going to hurt anything terminal.

I dunno - I've seen holes in pistons after only a few minutes
running a diesel on petrol.

That's not gentle driving though. That's some serious detonation going
on, and driving on despite it.

Andy Dingley wrote:

A mile of gentle driving just isn't going to hurt anything terminal.

I dunno - I've seen holes in pistons after only a few minutes
running a diesel on petrol.

That's not gentle driving though. That's some serious detonation going
on, and driving on despite it.

Possibly - all I saw was the end result, and a driver who was
adamant it was only a few minutes before she realised what had
happened.

--
Grunff

Dave Plowman wrote:
In article ,
Matthew Barnard wrote:
The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

The car is a one year old mercedes cdi estate. Does anyone think they
could be right - or are they likely to be greatly exaggerating?

They might well be. Or not. I'd have it flushed through then filled with
diesel before worrying. Older diesels could have the injector pump ruined
through lack of lubrication, but modern ones have electronic injection
which isn't so badly effected.

Trouble is you have to trust the garage to be honest about what actually
needs doing, and I wish we could guarantee they would be.

Trust, Garage.... Oxymoron alert...

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

--

We were always told that a million monkeys typing for a million years
would eventually produce the works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the
Internet, we know this is not true.

Matthew Barnard wrote:

I have read the entire recent thread on putting petrol into a diesel
engine. However that scenario was about 10% or less added.

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less
than one mile down the road the engine started juddering. She realised
her mistake and stopped and called the AA. They advised not driving any
further to avoid damage. The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

The car is a one year old mercedes cdi estate. Does anyone think they
could be right - or are they likely to be greatly exaggerating?


It requires a fairly compreghensive replacement of all teh fuel filters,
possibly teh fuel pump(s) and a good flush through of all the pipes and
injectors *to be safe*. She may have damaged something as well.

I just paid 75 quid an hour for labour on my last service, so thats not
that many hours work - ten hours say - plus a few parts - to get to a
thousand.


Needless to say, draining teh tank, and ripping the injector out, and
cranking teh engine untill what comes out smles of diesel, is the simple
way out, and probably would not result in any problems...However, if
they DID get a problem, guess who you would be suing?

Naturally even that is beyond a mercedes grease monkey as well, so they
will simply replce all the most expensive easy to remove bits, flush the
pipework through, and let your insurance pay.

nightjar

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

....and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?


In a Land Rover Defender, yes. In a one year old Mercedes, no.


Hmm. I take exception to that.



Colin Bignell

"tim" wrote in message
...

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

"Matthew Barnard" wrote in message
...
I have read the entire recent thread on putting petrol into a diesel
engine. However that scenario was about 10% or less added.

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less
than one mile down the road the engine started juddering. She realised
her mistake and stopped and called the AA. They advised not driving
any
further to avoid damage. The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

It never ceases to amaze me how people can do this - there is usually a
big
sticker stating "DIESEL" inside the filler flap,

no there isn't (not in mine)

There is on my diesel 307.

the filler hole is a different size (larger) than for petrol,

how does this stop someone putting the smaller nozzle in exactly?

You notice the nozzle seems to rattle around a lot more than it usually
does, that and the usually-black hose has now turned bright green is usually
a dead giveaway.

and surely you can tell it's a diesel by the rattling noise it makes?

I'm sure at the point of driving it you can tell the difference,
but if you drive one of two cars, it must be all too easy to
absentmindedly fill up from the wrong pump. (Just like
occasionally, I still drive out of a drive onto the wrong side
of the road!)

No, because something as vital as that you would check and double check
before filling. I regularly drive my wife's car which is petrol, but
whenever I fill up either car I always check which one I'm driving and
select the fuel accordingly, as do most people. Just shows, those with more
money don't necessarily have more common sense

Hellraiser...........

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
nightjar

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

....and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?


In a Land Rover Defender, yes. In a one year old Mercedes, no.

Even a diesel Merc doesn't sound like a petrol one, it still has a slight
rattle to it.

Hellraiser.........

Hellraiser wrote:

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

nightjar


"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...


....and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?


In a Land Rover Defender, yes. In a one year old Mercedes, no.


Even a diesel Merc doesn't sound like a petrol one, it still has a slight
rattle to it.


So do petrol ones



Hellraiser.........

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
nightjar

"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...

....and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?


In a Land Rover Defender, yes. In a one year old Mercedes, no.


Hmm. I take exception to that.


Any particular reason, or just on general principles? I have driven both
BTW, although I concede that, with the Mercedes, I was not driving one of
the cheap models.

Colin Bignell

Matthew Barnard wrote in news:tgkusQAb3La
:

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less

Might be cheaper to get a new wife.

"Jack" wrote in message
. ..
Matthew Barnard wrote in news:tgkusQAb3La
:

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less

Might be cheaper to get a new wife.

A common mistake. When one gets a new wife, the old one becomes more of a
drain.

Hellraiser...........

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Naturally even that is beyond a mercedes grease monkey as well, so they
will simply replce all the most expensive easy to remove bits, flush the
pipework through, and let your insurance pay.


Would this be covered by insurance?

--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Matthew Barnard wrote:

I have read the entire recent thread on putting petrol into a diesel
engine. However that scenario was about 10% or less added.

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car completely with
unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be at least 90% petrol! Less
than one mile down the road the engine started juddering. She realised
her mistake and stopped and called the AA. They advised not driving any
further to avoid damage. The car was towed to a garage. They have said
that they will provide a complete report by friday - but that it will
involve a great deal of work - and the bill is liable to be thousands!

The car is a one year old mercedes cdi estate. Does anyone think they
could be right - or are they likely to be greatly exaggerating?


It requires a fairly compreghensive replacement of all teh fuel filters,
possibly teh fuel pump(s) and a good flush through of all the pipes and
injectors *to be safe*. She may have damaged something as well.

I just paid 75 quid an hour for labour on my last service, so thats not
that many hours work - ten hours say - plus a few parts - to get to a
thousand.

Needless to say, draining teh tank, and ripping the injector out, and
cranking teh engine untill what comes out smles of diesel, is the simple
way out, and probably would not result in any problems...However, if
they DID get a problem, guess who you would be suing?

Naturally even that is beyond a mercedes grease monkey as well, so they
will simply replce all the most expensive easy to remove bits, flush the
pipework through, and let your insurance pay.

The balance here is between:

A) Simply syphoning the petrol out (where to put it safely/legally
um...)
Fill with Diesel, bleed the fuel line (possible automatic anyway) and
drive on.

B) Some remote chance that some serious damage has already occurred.

Then there are the warranty implications.

If the vehicle was 3 years I'd go for the gamble and diy it, but it
ain't.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

nightjar

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...

nightjar


"Hellraiser" wrote in message
...


....and surely you can tell it's a
diesel by the rattling noise it makes?


In a Land Rover Defender, yes. In a one year old Mercedes, no.


Hmm. I take exception to that.



Any particular reason, or just on general principles? I have driven both
BTW, although I concede that, with the Mercedes, I was not driving one of
the cheap models.


Well I drive one. The land rover. But all cars rattle to an extent. Its
goes with theterritory of valves, tappets etc etc, and modern lean burn
petrolengines are run to the point of detonation too.

Modsern diesle by the way, that use advanced multi-pulse injection,
don't detonate at low throttle the way traditional ones do.



Colin Bignell

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Well I drive one. The land rover. But all cars rattle to an extent. Its
goes with theterritory of valves, tappets etc etc, and modern lean burn
petrolengines are run to the point of detonation too.

Most modern petrol engines will have knock sensors - the purpose of which
is to avoid detonation.

Modsern diesle by the way, that use advanced multi-pulse injection,
don't detonate at low throttle the way traditional ones do.

A neighbour has the same car as me only diesel. It wakes up the street
when he starts up. ;-) It's fine on the move though.

--
*Acupuncture is a jab well done.*

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Jack wrote:

Hello Jack

Today my wife filled an empty tank in a diesel car
completely with unleaded petrol in error. The tank must be
at least 90% petrol! Less
J| Might be cheaper to get a new wife.

wifetrader.co.uk /ought/ to exist, if it doesn't already.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

"Hellraiser" wrote:

Hello Hellraiser

H| It never ceases to amaze me how people can do this - there
H| is usually a big sticker stating "DIESEL" inside the filler
H| flap, the filler hole is a different size (larger) than for
H| petrol, and surely you can tell it's a diesel by the
H| rattling noise it makes?

My step father put 40 quids worth of unleaded in a 7.5tonne lorry
once. Even he can't understand how he did it.

Show how well trained the forecourt monkeys are, that they can blindly
punch a button without looking to see whether the guy actually has a
vehicle and isn't about to immolate himself for kicks. (Almost
happened at a Jet station recently)

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK
uk.d-i-y FAQ: http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/

Aiden wrote:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:15:40 +0100, Ed Sirett
wrote:

snip

A) Simply syphoning the petrol out (where to put it safely/legally
um...)
snip

Noticed recently local Breakers Yard emptying fuel tank - lifted front
with a crane and opened drain plug - into a bucket - very easy - and,
if the worst comes to the worst, could always leave the Merc with them
:-}

A bucket! This is a full tank of diesel contaminated Petrol.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

Thanks to everyone who replied. Particular thanks to Andy Dingley, Dave
Plowman and The Natural Philosopher. I am absolutely sure that it helped
when I rang the dealer and said "So I guess you'll be draining the fuel
tank, replacing the filters, and bleed the fuel system from up front? Oh
- and check the fuel pump when you check for any other (unlikely) damage
would you?". There was an audible silence (!) on the phone when I said
that - I think they might have tried it on otherwise.

The car is now back - and no major damage. The Natural P also got it
spot on - the bill for parts was approximately 15 pounds. The bill for
labour was approximately 960 pounds! Many will think we got what we
deserved! We are currently exploring the "issues" with the insurance
company.

I could offer many comments on other remarks in the thread - however I
choose not to. I am just pleased that once again the advice I obtained
here was genuinely useful - and I am simply awed by the presence of
contributors who are clearly immune from human error.


--
Matthew Barnard

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:23:21 +0100, Ed Sirett
wrote:

A bucket! This is a full tank of diesel contaminated Petrol.

Lots of military vehicle collectors (those with multifuel engines) use
petrol/diesel mix from the RAC or AA, after they've drained it from
this sort of mis-filled tank. You can't burn it as heating oil
(petrol is too flammable), you can't run a sensible engine on it, and
it's an expensive disposal problem otherwise.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
Matthew Barnard wrote:

The car is now back - and no major damage. The Natural P also got it
spot on - the bill for parts was approximately 15 pounds. The bill for
labour was approximately 960 pounds!

Blimey!

How many hours was that???

Darren

In article ,
dmc wrote:
The car is now back - and no major damage. The Natural P also got it
spot on - the bill for parts was approximately 15 pounds. The bill for
labour was approximately 960 pounds!

Blimey!

How many hours was that???

Well, London BMW dealers charge over 100 quid an hour, so I'd guess M-B is
the same. Still seems a lot of labour, though - I'd have thought this such
a common problem they'd have a way of just flushing it through - and a
small amount of petrol left wouldn't matter.

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:08:06 +0100, Dave Plowman wrote:

Well, London BMW dealers charge over 100 quid an hour,

'leeding 'ell. I'm in the wrong job!

*BUT* I bet the grease monkeys that actually *do* the work don't get
anything like that, wouldn't be at all surprised if it was =A310/hr or
less.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
. 1...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:08:06 +0100, Dave Plowman wrote:

Well, London BMW dealers charge over 100 quid an hour,

'leeding 'ell. I'm in the wrong job!

*BUT* I bet the grease monkeys that actually *do* the work don't get
anything like that, wouldn't be at all surprised if it was £10/hr or
less.


Yup, probably true.

They're mostly run on bonus schemes - finish jobs under the ticketed time
and there's bonus in it. The problem for the poor punter is that just about
all jobs have an allotted time - for instance new alternator could be down
as 1 hour. If they go significantly over you'll bet that they will chase
you for extra labour, but if it only takes them 10 mins you can be sure that
you won't see a reduction in your bill.

My brother used to be a Renault technician - he was earning relatively well
for the location (York) and his age. Does hell of a lot better rescuing
folks with crippled Land Rovers, Jags and the like now, though.

cheers
Richard
--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:27:57 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:23:21 +0100, Ed Sirett
wrote:

A bucket! This is a full tank of diesel contaminated Petrol.

Lots of military vehicle collectors (those with multifuel engines) use
petrol/diesel mix from the RAC or AA, after they've drained it from
this sort of mis-filled tank. You can't burn it as heating oil
(petrol is too flammable), you can't run a sensible engine on it, and
it's an expensive disposal problem otherwise.



We keep a container for this type of thing and use it to start
bonfires. If it is s little high on dirty petrol then it is leavened
with heating oil.


Paul Mc Cann