I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

Rich wrote:
I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

There are plenty of 30 year old cars around, some of them with very high
mileages.

The diesel will act as a lubricant to the fuel system and the valves.
Modern petrol (read anything post ~1970) is well lubricated - a measured
amount of larger hydrocarbons (a lot like diesel) is added to the petrol
to act as a lubricant.

Adding diesel to your petrol is totally unnecessary. In addition, adding
that much diesel to a tank of petrol (£10 = 1/3-1/4 tank?) will make the
engine run like crap.


Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Bored, eh?


--
Grunff

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:08 +0000, Grunff wrote:

Rich wrote:
I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

There are plenty of 30 year old cars around, some of them with very high
mileages.

The diesel will act as a lubricant to the fuel system and the valves.
Modern petrol (read anything post ~1970) is well lubricated - a measured
amount of larger hydrocarbons (a lot like diesel) is added to the petrol
to act as a lubricant.

Adding diesel to your petrol is totally unnecessary. In addition, adding
that much diesel to a tank of petrol (£10 = 1/3-1/4 tank?) will make the
engine run like crap.


Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Bored, eh?

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC. He was probably a
bit behind the times! Thanks for setting the record straight.

But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more. Perhaps it too is redundant for the same reasons you mentioned?

Rich

Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Perhaps it too is redundant for the same reasons you mentioned?

Same thing - valve lubricant (and bores to some extent). Won't make any
difference with modern petrol.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

IMM wrote:

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.

There is very little difference between different brands of petrol sold
in the UK. Very little indeed. Many people seem to be able to convince
themselves that they can 'feel the difference', but it would never stand
up to a double-blind test.


--
Grunff

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

People use BP Ultimate petrol now.


Yes, true, the BP marketing people do say that...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Perhaps it too is redundant for the same reasons you mentioned?

Same thing - valve lubricant (and bores to some extent). Won't make any
difference with modern petrol.


I'm not so sure about that, on a 30 year old engine that is, lead was the
upper cylinder lubricant in those days and many a valves life depended on
it, current engine technology is such that lead is not required.

A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with LRP.

This discussion would be more at home in the classic car group !

:::Jerry:::: wrote:

I'm not so sure about that, on a 30 year old engine that is, lead was the
upper cylinder lubricant in those days and many a valves life depended on
it, current engine technology is such that lead is not required.

There is a big difference berween the role played by lead and that
played by hydrocarbon lubricants.

The purpose of the lead was twofold:
1. It reduced knocking
2. It formed a coating on the valves + seats, and prevented the valves
from welding to the seats, thereby causing valve seat recession.

Hydrocarbon lubricants act to lubricate the valve stem/guide, and the
piston/bore.


A mid '70's engine might well last longer if Redex is used, even with LRP.

If it's an iron cylinder head, unless it has hard seat inserts it needs
either leaded or LRP with an alternative additive, otherwise the head
will only last a few thousand miles.


--
Grunff

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect. Once this disappeared we used to spend ages
concocting fuels suitable for running 12:1 compression ratios properly once
the scrutineer had checked our washed out tanks only had grot 4 star in
them.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Grunff" wrote in message
...
Rich wrote:

Well, the guy in question was an old farmer IIRC.

This explains a lot. I know many farmers...


But what about Redex? It was once the in-thing to ask for a a couple
of squirts every time you filled up, but no-one seems to bother any
more.

That was a looong time ago. Like in the 60s.


Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect. Once this disappeared we used to spend ages
concocting fuels suitable for running 12:1 compression ratios properly
once
the scrutineer had checked our washed out tanks only had grot 4 star in
them.

??

Mike wrote:

Not quite. You could get proper 5 star until at least 1979 which had
roughly the same effect.

Ok, I was 6 years old then...


--
Grunff

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement. IMM again seems to have taken marketing blurb as gospel....

Changing oil and filter every 6k and driving in a style that is kind to the
engine will be just as good as spending a small fortune on fully synthetic
oils.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines that have been designed to use such oil as
a
requirement. IMM again seems to have taken marketing blurb as gospel....

Changing oil and filter every 6k and driving in a style that is kind to
the
engine will be just as good as spending a small fortune on fully synthetic
oils.

I think you're being a bit strong here. When Mobil 1 first appeared we were
able to stop changing the oil three times a rally. In fact it would
probably have lasted several rallies, such was it's lack of degradation
under harsh conditions.

Also changing oil and filter every 6k would cost more than using a synthetic
every 18k.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of
his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines that have been designed to use such oil
as
a
requirement. IMM again seems to have taken marketing blurb as gospel....

Changing oil and filter every 6k and driving in a style that is kind to
the
engine will be just as good as spending a small fortune on fully
synthetic
oils.

I think you're being a bit strong here. When Mobil 1 first appeared we
were
able to stop changing the oil three times a rally. In fact it would
probably have lasted several rallies, such was it's lack of degradation
under harsh conditions.

I think the operative word is 'rallies', here we are talking bog standard
road going cars...


Also changing oil and filter every 6k would cost more than using a
synthetic
every 18k.


No it would not, unless you buy oil from the retail rip off stores or petrol
forecourts...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...
I think you're being a bit strong here. When Mobil 1 first appeared we
were
able to stop changing the oil three times a rally. In fact it would
probably have lasted several rallies, such was it's lack of degradation
under harsh conditions.

I think the operative word is 'rallies', here we are talking bog standard
road going cars...

Which until the recent WRC cars were at least related to bog standard cars.
Often they were just the bog standard cars with the weakest bits upgraded a
bit.



Also changing oil and filter every 6k would cost more than using a
synthetic every 18k.

No it would not, unless you buy oil from the retail rip off stores or
petrol
forecourts...

Not sure how nuch you pay for oil then but synthetic is less than three
times to the cost of standard even before we consider the filter.

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some viscosities
can only be met by synthetics). They are the same viscosities as the other
poor mineral oils. It is just that they are vastly superior in every way.
I have used them for the best part of 20 years, even in the transmission.
The engine wear is minimal, and they still have the smooth newness about
them when cars with similar engines with the same mileages, etc sound like
tin cans. Also the insides of the engine stay immaculately clean.

The water pumps and alternators may speak, but the main engine is as good as
new. There is far too much evidence out there to dispute the qualities of
fully synthetics. They were developed for jet engines originally. I once
did work at an oil research lab. The guys there said "always use fully
synthetics, no matter what car you drive". One had a SAAB and had not
changed the oil for 60,000 miles. He tested the oil each month to see if it
had degraded. He changed the filter every 6,000 miles and topped up a drop
that the old filter had in it.

Been converted ever since and not had one problem with any engine when using
it. All, after many 1000s of miles were as smooth as new.


snip drivel

"IMM" wrote in message
...
No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some
viscosities
can only be met by synthetics).

Do you want to tell that to my Impreza ? There's even a warning in the
manual that normal oils won't survive.


They are the same viscosities as the other
poor mineral oils. It is just that they are vastly superior in every way.

Now I do agree with you.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Rich" wrote in message
...

I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of
his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Rich

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils nip

As you would say...

snip drivel and miss information. not worth reading

Needless to say, there are.

:::Jerry:::: wrote in message
...

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel


Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils nip

As you would say...

snip drivel and miss information. not worth reading

Needless to say, there are.

The improved lubricating qualities and resistance to high temperature
breakdown of synthetic oils are so widely known that anyone who disbelieves
this is fact is probably a loony. And going by some of your other
posts......

In message , IMM
writes

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some viscosities
can only be met by synthetics). They are the same viscosities as the other
poor mineral oils. It is just that they are vastly superior in every way.
I have used them for the best part of 20 years, even in the transmission.
The engine wear is minimal, and they still have the smooth newness about
them when cars with similar engines with the same mileages, etc sound like
tin cans. Also the insides of the engine stay immaculately clean.

Your morris minor was designed to be fairly robust

--
geoff

IMM wrote:
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some
viscosities can only be met by synthetics).


I'm sure my vRS would love to hear that. Would save money on buying the
specific VAG product. And the same goes for SWMBO's 2.0PD Touran. Both come
with copious warnings regarding which oils are suitable.

Cheers
Clive

"Clive Summerfield" wrote in message
.uk...
IMM wrote:
":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

Bollox ! Other than on engines
that have been designed to use such oil as a
requirement.

No engine is designed to use fully synthetic oils (although some
viscosities can only be met by synthetics).


I'm sure my vRS would love to hear that. Would save money on buying the
specific VAG product. And the same goes for SWMBO's 2.0PD Touran. Both
come
with copious warnings regarding which oils are suitable.

The waning will probably only apply to the viscosity, although some high
performance engines, usually withy turbos, synthetic can only do. Minerals
oils can hack it, but not for very long.

The average car is designed to run at a viscosity, because the odd moron
would put cheap crap Halfords stuff in. So, the engine has to be capable of
running well with cheap crap in it. Put proper fully synthetics in and the
engine runs brilliantly with smoothness prolonged. With specialist high
performance cars, the maker can say use this type and make of oil and the
owner will probably understand that and do it. People who buy those cars
know that the car is not a normal run of the mill motor.

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.


You would also have had to flush every last drop of non synthetic oil out of
the engine for there to be any benefit if the oil did manage to stay within
the engine.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:31:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

If you want to prolong the life of your engine and g/box use "fully"
synthetic oils, not diesel fuel

Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.

You use it on new or nearly new cars, and for ever after.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Unless your engine is 30 years old, in which case synthetic oils will
**** out past every oil seal and cork gasket they can find.

Because it's not available in the same 'thickness' as those originally
recommended?

I'm using Halfords fully synthetic in the SD1 which is an '84 car -
although the engine dates back to the '60s, and it doesn't leak anymore
than before. ;-) But it certainly spins over more easily on a cold start.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm using Halfords fully synthetic in the SD1 which is an '84 car -
although the engine dates back to the '60s, and it doesn't leak anymore
than before. ;-) But it certainly spins over more easily on a cold start.


Don't you mean 50's Dave, ex Buick lump and all that ?...

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:56:18 -0000, ":::Jerry::::"
wrote:

Don't you mean 50's Dave, ex Buick lump and all that ?...

'63, AFAIR. It was a pretty modern lump for Oldsmobile, what with
that new fangled aluminum block and all.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:18:12 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Because it's not available in the same 'thickness' as those originally
recommended?

No, it's about viscosity, but not under the same conditions as the
viscosity measurement we normally worry about. It's the "viscosity
for creeping through narrow gaps, when lightly loaded" rather than
"tenacity of the oil film in a bearing, when hot and under high
pressure".

I believe that the fluorinated plastic used for seals in Vauxhalls was
a deliberate move to make them seal better with synthetic oils. These
are the seals that can produce hydrofluoric acid after a fire.


A few years ago I was trying to buy oil (for my Alfasud, oddly enough)
with a decent SAE rating, such as the recently available SI, rather
than the clunky old SFs. After a _lot_ of searching, I found some
Valvoline synth. Most factors didn't know what I was talking about,
one only had an aircraft lubricant (pricetag!) and a couple swore
blind that the ratings simply didn't go that high.

Now you go into Halfords in search of cheap treacle for the lawnmower
and there's nothing in there under an SJ rating.

--
Smert' spamionam

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Because it's not available in the same 'thickness' as those originally
recommended?

No, it's about viscosity, but not under the same conditions as the
viscosity measurement we normally worry about. It's the "viscosity
for creeping through narrow gaps, when lightly loaded" rather than
"tenacity of the oil film in a bearing, when hot and under high
pressure".

I believe that the fluorinated plastic used for seals in Vauxhalls was
a deliberate move to make them seal better with synthetic oils. These
are the seals that can produce hydrofluoric acid after a fire.

I've heard some say older engines will leak with synthetic, but I've not
found this with my '84 SDI. I did replace the front crank seal though -
but this was leaking with dino oil too. Which was 10-40.

Nor does it burn any more - it will still do one annual oil change to the
next without topping up.

--
*Corduroy pillows are making headlines.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
snip

Now you go into Halfords in search of cheap treacle for the lawnmower
and there's nothing in there under an SJ rating.


But go into a trade motor factors and you'll get what you need, not what
they can make the most profit on....

In article ,
Rich wrote:
I was listening to a chatty radio show this evening and someone
mentioned that he knew someone who put £10 of deisel in with the
petrol on every fourth fill-up. He swore it prolonged the life of his
engines - and sure enough, his car has so far lasted 30 years....

Just thought I'd pass it on... and listen out for your comments.

Well, the engine is probably the least of your worries on a 30 year old
car. Most will have serious rot problems long before the engine gives up -
and even a totally clapped engine can be made like new for a fraction of
the cost of fixing rust.

And the trouble with these 'my engine has lasted X miles because of Y' is
that there is no control data to substantiate it.

Everyone searches for the elixir of life - for themselves, or their cars.
Some will be convinced that a spoon of honey or whatever results in them
living to 100, while others might say it's a pint of cider. And neither
can be proved - or really disproved.

Our US cousins seem to think changing the engine oil every 3000 miles
results in long engine life, but seem very reluctant to pay for other
fluids in the car to be changed regularly - even although this is a
service requrement, and might actually save larger repair bills.

All adding diesel to petrol might achieve for the good is upper cylinder
lubrication - and there are better products to do this. The down side is
that it will lower the octane rating of the petrol and possibly cause
higher localised combustion temperatures on a high efficiency engine - and
cause piston or valve damage.

--
*If I worked as much as others, I would do as little as they *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.