On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:25:51 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.


.... and which somehow, magically, doesn't pollute the atmosphere
either.

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 14 Aug 2005 14:11:10 -0700, wrote:

what is a prius?


A kind of cooking stove, Jacob....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:05:17 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Which will effect hybrid cars with petrol engines like the Prius equally.

The problem with the Prius
is the high capital cost (battery)

That will come down.

vs. a dubious saving in operating
fuel costs.

What dubious savings? Stop making things up again. All is quantifiable.

Increasing fuel costs certainly
assists the Prius.

And that is happening.

There seems to be no real argument against the Prius hybrid engine and
transmission concept being used in a stop-start "city car", perhaps as a
taxi or a bigger version of the Smart. The problem with the Prius is
that it seems to be being sold as an up-market BMW competitor, which it
very certainly isn't.

It is. It ****es all over the 5 series in mid acceleration.

I can't see it competing with the Smart - it's to heavy

An about twice the size. Are you really that dumb? You keep repeating the
same old crap, even after I put you right.

and the Smart is all about
efficiency through light weight,

And being like a motorbike sidecar.

But I'd love to see a taxi
version of the Prius.

The Prius is extensively used in north America as a taxi. The runners love
them and the low running costs.

http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Toyota_Prius.htm

"T i m" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:45:38 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"T i m" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:44:16 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
but with what Dribble says and petrol ~£1 / l you would have thought
we'd be knee deep in them by now?

Not at 23 mpg - they're dreadful. Get a decent diesel at half the
price.

lol. Got one Dave, at 1/160th of the price (Rover 218SD

You poor *******.

No, rich ******* (as compared to you)

You must be poor as you drive an appalling car. Do children throw stones at
you and the car?

wrote in message
oups.com...

whatever it is I get the impression that only complete ****s would know
the answer, and no I don't really want to know.

Stick to a motorbike and sidecar.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:25:51 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.


... and which somehow, magically, doesn't pollute the atmosphere
either.

nope.

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

No gearbox or CVT. You have been told.

But YOU said it did - just over 3 weeks ago.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...da3afa5?hl=en&
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:51:39 +0100
From: "Doctor Drivel"

"The Prius now has a conventional CVT. "

Yes, you Dribble definitely wrote that. Are you changing your mind
again and will Toyota have to revise all their leaflets? Wouldn't it
be better to take your pills and have a lie down for a few years?


--

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

No CVT, the car has no CVT. NO gearbox.

The Prius has an automatic
gearbox with planetary gears
which acts as a CVT.

WRONG!! No gearbox or CVT.


But YOU said it did

I never.


But YOU said it did - just over 3 weeks ago.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...da3afa5?hl=en&
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:51:39 +0100
From: "Doctor Drivel"

"The Prius now has a conventional CVT. "

Yes, you Dribble definitely wrote that. Are you changing your mind
again and will Toyota have to revise all their leaflets? Wouldn't it
be better to take your pills and have a lie down for a few years?


--

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

drivel snipped

There you go. The Prius ****es all over it.

Yet again you made all that up

--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Matt" wrote in message
.. .
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Steve Firth" wrote in message
. ..
Doctor Drivel wrote:

No CVT, the car has no CVT. NO gearbox.

The Prius has an automatic
gearbox with planetary gears
which acts as a CVT.

WRONG!! No gearbox or CVT.

But YOU said it did

I never.

snip drivel from a lunatic

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

No gearbox or CVT. You have been told.

But

snip drivel from a lunatic

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Prius Top-gear acceleration

OOH look what he said

Prius top-GEAR acceleration

GEAR yes you wrote GEAR

So you now accept it has a gearbox or are you, yet again, making
things up as and when it suits you?

--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

drivel snipped

There you go. The Prius ****es all over it.

Yet

more drivel having to be snipped

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


No batteries have been replaced in the USA yet.

More disinformation from Dribble. When do you get the electrodes
reattached?
--

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:47:06 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:25:51 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.


... and which somehow, magically, doesn't pollute the atmosphere
either.

nope.


.... and is taken into account in the published emissions
characteristics of the Primus?


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.

In the 60's and 70's that was a perfectly valid statement but in more
recent times that is totally incorrect. With the exception of nuclear
stations which have problems with rapid power level changes (reactor
core poisoning) there is no reason for many power stations to stay
generating 24 hours a day.

Economy 7 was a solution to the inflexibility of large 500MW +
generators and the lack of knowledge in high temperature/pressure
boiler operation metallurgy. The problems were largely engineered out
in the mid to late 80's with advances in materials and in more
accurate control schemes.

Every bit of significant generation added since around 1990 is capable
of rapid load changes and two/three shift operation with little
adverse effect on the plant.


--

"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

being an international man of mystery.

No you're not, everyone knows who you are and where you live by the
torrents of water gushing out of your plumbing


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

Prius Top-gear acceleration

OOH

snipeth neetheth of drivel

T i m wrote:

Real world challenge for you .. let's put the same value of fuel in
both our cars and go on a nice trip round the country (I'll even tow a
trailer if you like .. I know the Primus can't do that) ... just don't
expect me to drive back to get you when you run out before I do ...
(asuming you can get time off from behind the trade counter that is).

He couldn't possibly do that as no matter what day you suggested he'd
be driving his DB6* somewhere else instead.
[*] in his imagination or maybe in the playroom


--

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:47:06 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 21:25:51 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and
hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.

... and which somehow, magically, doesn't pollute the atmosphere
either.

nope.

... and is taken into account in the published emissions
characteristics of the Primus?

Seeing as the car cannot be plugged into the grid, they wouldn't would they.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


No batteries have been replaced in the USA yet.

More

snipeth needeth for the village idiot

"Doctor Drivel" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 15:53:30 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Rolls made a car called the 'Legalimit' before WW1 which had no
variable
gearing at all and a fluid flywheel. But of course the single gear
approach doesn't work with an IC engine unless you can accept a poor
top
speed and dreadful economy.

And Issigonis revived the idea with the Mini - although even BL was
smart enough not to let that one out of the factory gates.

The gearless mini using a Citroen CX torque converter. It was a great
success with economy and speed too. A little more R&D would have made it a
real winner. Lord Snowdon borrowed it for a while and was mightily
impressed. It saved on the weight of the old gearbox too. It was at the
Gayton museum. Look under and no fins hanging down. It was to be brought
to production, but as with many of the improvements and new Mini
derivatives, such as hatchbacks, finanicial problems at BMC and later BL
kept it back.

I'm pretty certain the first true auto sold in the UK was a post WW2

"True auto" is taking a pretty narrow view here as "GM Hydramatic and
its clones", but I wouldn't argue as to RR being the first.

Germany was selling a licensed pre-war small Austin as the Adler, and
this included an auto variant (swivelling ball CVT). It seems to have
been more popular in Germany, but they were available here. (If you have
a library of old Caxton press motor books, there's an article on the
gearbox)

The 1930s Austin with the toroidal IVT was about the first. The IVTs
either
worked faultlessly or totally shattered, so were taken off the market
after
quite a few thousand were sold. Only in the 1970/80s when further
research
was undertaken on toroidal transmissions was the reason for the shattering
understood. The transmission type, Torotrack, was perfected but never
taken
up for some strange reason. An Italian company has taken out a licence to
take it further.

http://www.torotrak.com/

As with many of these excellent developments, they are too late, although
the Torotrak has been around for 15 years or so; the hybrid has killed it.
heavy commercial applications may be feasible.

From Torotrak:
"The technology is currently being demonstrated in a Ford Expedition with a
5.4 litre engine. Externally verified tests, show a fuel economy improvement
of 20% compared to the existing 4 speed automatic. Computer modelling
comparing the IVT to future stepped automatics predicts a 10% improvement in
fuel economy."

"Matt" wrote in message
...
T i m wrote:

Real world challenge for you .. let's put the same value of fuel in
both our cars and go on a nice trip round the country (I'll even tow a
trailer if you like .. I know the Primus can't do that) ... just don't
expect me to drive back to get you when you run out before I do ...
(asuming you can get time off from behind the trade counter that is).

He couldn't possibly do that as no matter what day you suggested he'd
be driving his DB6* somewhere else instead.

[*] in his imagination or maybe in the playroom

Only comes out a few times a year. I am a star when driving it, being much
better looking than James Bond himself.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

being an international man of mystery.

No you're not,

I am, and also a part time world-wide playboy too.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:


"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Bioboffin
writes

In
a few years time the batteries will be larger, and cheaper, and hold
more energy too, giving about 60 to 100 miles battery range with
option of grid charging

Of course, Drivel ignores
the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the
vehicle to the power station...

Which has surplus overnight power.

In the 60's and 70's that was a perfectly valid statement but in more
recent times that is totally incorrect.

No. It is totally correct.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Of course, Drivel ignores the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the vehicle to the power station...

Yes, but you can put power stations in places where few people live and
there is loads of space for the emissions to disperse and be diluted.
There are real issues of air quality in areas like mine (SW London) where
loads of people live cheek by jowl with heavy traffic (hardly moving for
several hours a day)


That is where the Prius and Evs score too.

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
The 5 Series M5 is regarded as the best performance car in the world -
beating Ferrari et all.

Perhaps. But round here seeing BMWs with these ultra low profile tyres
having to crawl over speed humps at half the speed my Honda Jazz is
comfortable with does make me smile.

And you hear that ripping noise as the exhaust are ripped off the Porches
and BMWs. So nice to hear.

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 19:14:02 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

No batteries have been replaced in the USA yet.

The _actual_ Prius owners (not wannabee shop assistants like you) in
alt.autos.toyota.prius reckon differently

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:28:40 +0100, Matt
wrote:

Every bit of significant generation added since around 1990 is capable
of rapid load changes

Renewables won't though, and we are going to have to consider that as an
issue -- although if we're to waste gas on power generation, then rapid
load balancing is the best thing to be doing with it.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Yes. Question for you. On a 1000 mile journey, how many miles of that
will your IC egine be running?

Depends on driving conditions. In city driving, were the emissions are
far more critical, not much at all.

So you've found a 1000 mile wide city. On planet Zog, obviously.

--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Mr Dingley is right and you are wrong. For your comprehension. Gearbox
is raising and lowering ratios between the power sources and diff/wheels
The Prius does not do that.

Yes it does.

--
*Can atheists get insurance for acts of God? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Oh, and Dave - first automatic transmission I can find was the Manly-La
France hydraulic one of 1907,

He said it was 1955

Wrong again, ******, as anyone can check. When will you realise that
things posted here can't be 'snipped' or altered by you?

******.

Again.

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You are silly. People don't drive around doing economy runs. They drive
normally in normal conditions. Auto Express...61mpg.

Autocar...23mpg

--
*Ever stop to think and forget to start again?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Unless the gearing between either engine and rear wheels is fixed,
it's a variable gearbox. End of story, no matter how much you squirm.

What is he on about? Anyone know?

Obviously not you.

Ask your nurse to get a book from the trolley on basic mechanics.

--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Don't think that's quite the same thing - using an IC engine to power
either a hydraulic pump or electrical generator isn't really suitable
for cars.

How would you know. You understand these sort of things.

Yup, I do.

Try to keep up.

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
The idea of the battery actually lasting 8 years is crap. It's part of
the 'selling at a loss' for status or whatever in the US.

They're lead-acid batteries as well,

Err, no.

which have horrendous environmental
implications, something that Drivel has been keen to gloss over.

Drivel glosses over everything.

--


Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Found on the web:

=========================
C&D Test Results:

Prius Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph 15.5
50-70 mph 20.9

BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration
30-50 mph: 0.3
50-70 mph: 0.2
=========================

There you go. The Prius ****es all over it.

You don't seem to read the same figures as everyone else.

--
*It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Doctor Drivel wrote:

Corrected
Toyota Prius: - cheap to run; about
- 40mpg nearly as good as a Yaris diesel!

- Silenet running
-- slightly noisier inside than a normal car.

- very cheap road tax.
- Same as a small car.

- No congestion charge.
- If you are stupid enough to go into Central London in the daytime.

- £1000 grant
- from the other taxpayers. and then only if funds permit!

- 8 year warranty
- on some parts, only 3 years/60,000 miles on the rest, wildly
expensive spares otherwise.

- Every mod con you could ask for.
- But no rear view camera, armrests, cupholders,
the list of unavailable extras is endless.

- Extremely low emissions,
- unless you drive it.
- great trendy looks
- Blind peoples guide dogs have a great use for it! Digital speedo,
shown by experience to not be customer acceptable.
- Doesn't like long hills, bends, cold weather, hot weather, poorly
surfaced country roads.
- Instrument panel disappears in bright sunlight. Replacement £1.3K
- Fuel gauge reads empty when 1/4 full and car stops.
- Computer needs reprogramming every 2 months or car stops.
- Appallingly low residual values when you sell.
- Rear seats only suitable for dwarves. Snow White bought one?
- Battery flattens in 7 days of non usage.
- Air conditioning must be turned off if at all possible to keep
performance up to Yaris standards.

- minor electrical faults up to Mercedes standards. ie common.


VW diesel:

- Full road tax,
- but much more fuel economical.
- congestion charge,
- very rarely.
- dirty,
- only if you don't clean it, other wise lower emissions than Prius.

- smelly,
- Most owners I know don't smell.
- noisy,
- compared to a bicycle, otherwise lower interior noise than a Prius.

- no grant.
- The manufacturer can always sell the product profitably without
fleecing the taxpayers

- good fuel economy only on a run.
- Unlike the Prius, which is very uneconomical at higher speeds and
up hills.



- £650 for new turbo every 70k
- cheap at the price as the fuel savings will easily pay for it.
- Actually seats 4 adults.-
- Very, very high residual value. Depreciation costs between one half
and two thirds of a Prius per mile driven. Servicing costs lower.
Insurance costs lower as cheaper to repair. Official fleet running cost
figures.
- Excellent range of OEM and aftermarket accessories, including,
rearview cameras, alternative seats, cupholders built in etc.
- Computer doesn't need reprogramming under normal usage conditions.

No contest, the Prius is
- crap!

LOL

Capitol

Doctor Drivel wrote:

It is. It ****es all over the 5 series in mid acceleration.

Do you have a source for this nonsense?

(Even a 2L diesel 5 series will trounce a prius in every conceivable
performance test)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article , Mike Tomlinson wrote:
Of course, Drivel ignores the unpalatable fact that grid charging simply
moves the source of pollution from the vehicle to the power station...

Yes, but you can put power stations in places where few people live and
there is loads of space for the emissions to disperse and be diluted.
There are real issues of air quality in areas like mine (SW London) where
loads of people live cheek by jowl with heavy traffic (hardly moving for
several hours a day)

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]