Hi all,

My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

(And no animal intestine solutions thanks Mary!)

All the best ..

T i m

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

(And no animal intestine solutions thanks Mary!)


What would dissolve an animal intestine!

Peter Scott

"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

Inner tube car or bike cut and glued to length

Regards Jeff

Strip cut out of old bicycle inner tube; butt-jointed at an angle using a
"lap" of puncture repair patch on the outside?

T i m wrote:

Hi all,

My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

(And no animal intestine solutions thanks Mary!)

All the best ..

T i m

Length of inner tube, cut into a strip and some super glue?

On Tue, 3 May 2005 20:15:12 +0100, "Jeff" wrote:

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

Inner tube car or bike cut and glued to length


Tried it once many years ago - total failure despite numerous
attempts. Ended up ordering a proper replacement.

"T i m" wrote in message
...
...
I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?
...

If you can find a belt that is bigger than you need, then it can be cut to
size and super-glued. We used to do that years ago in a workshop, and it
worked a treat.

-- JJ

In message , T i m
writes
Hi all,

My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

I've just had the same problem, and a bugger of a job getting the right
size belt. I also tried a rubber band for several weeks which worked
well enough - you just have to find one the right length. Of course it
will take a few seconds to come up to correct speed, but, if you're too
tight to spend a fiver on a belt, it's prolly the best solution.

If you try and use a piece of rubber and join it, you'll prolly hear the
joint, but then ... for the above bands, does it really matter ?

Why p&p, isn't there a hi-fi shop near you ?

--
geoff

In message , Badger
writes


T i m wrote:

Hi all,
My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)
I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?
I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?
(And no animal intestine solutions thanks Mary!)
All the best ..
T i m

Length of inner tube, cut into a strip and some super glue?

Superglue isn't flexible enough, if one was to go down this unadvisable
route, at least use the right adhesive

--
geoff

On Tue, 03 May 2005 19:35:52 GMT, Sim G. wrote:

Inner tube car or bike cut and glued to length

Tried it once many years ago - total failure despite numerous
attempts. Ended up ordering a proper replacement.

I've never had any success either. They join fails fairly quickly or,
as the stiffness varies across the joint, it affects the
speed/stabilty of the turntable and may even produce an audible thump.

A slanted rather than a straight 90deg join might be better. Gives
more area for the glue and a less violent transition in the belts
flexabilty.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Newshound wrote:

Strip cut out of old bicycle inner tube; butt-jointed at an angle using a
"lap" of puncture repair patch on the outside?


It will give perceptible wow if you do.

Fork out for a new ojne, or borrow a decent turntable.

On Tue, 03 May 2005 18:14:08 GMT, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

My 14 yr old daughter has just bought herself a some 'records'
(remember them) from a boot sale and of couse we don't have anything
set-up to play them on (some Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Quo and ZZ Top btw
g!)

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

I'm not sure I want to shell out £5.99 + p&p or so for a replacement
that may be only used for a few tracks so wondered if there were any
DIY alternatives out there please?

(And no animal intestine solutions thanks Mary!)

All the best ..

Hi,

2.99 from Maplins, (poss. FJ20W?):

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3088&TabID=1&source=15&WorldI D=&doy=3m5

see also note under FAQ.

cheers,
Pete.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Badger
writes
...
Length of inner tube, cut into a strip and some super glue?

Superglue isn't flexible enough, if one was to go down this unadvisable
route, at least use the right adhesive

Superglue is absolutely the right stuff for rubber. It bonds the rubber to
itself extremely well through chemical action, and does nor form the normal
'crispy' layer that you would normally expect, and so gives you a
flexible-enough join to be indistinguishable from the rest of the rubber.

-- JJ

On Tue, 03 May 2005 22:13:41 +0100, Pete C
wrote:


2.99 from Maplins, (poss. FJ20W?):

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3088&TabID=1&source=15&WorldI D=&doy=3m5

see also note under FAQ.

Tim finally gets the superglue off his fingers and types

Thanks to all that replied and the advice warnings re a diy belt. ;-)

The Maplin solution (not the same as the stuff for disolving
intestines PeterS) looks pretty good but with the diameter of the
drive flange (I can say 'flange'' here can't I?) at about 200mm I
don't know if a 195 or 210 diameter one would be best (the drive
spindle is about 15mm away from the flange (there, I said it again))
;-)

However, even with the p&p doubling the cost it still might just be
cheaper than driving to my *local* HiFi shop if I knew where that was
(but thanks for that Geoff) and being ripped off for one (£5.99
against £2.99 at Maplin if I one was near?). Either way it still seems
a lot of money for a rubber band?

Ok, I could borrow a decent deck (T.N.P.) if ....

1) I knew anyone that had one ...

2) Was likely to get them to lend it to me .. "Fred, your Linn Sondek
LP12 turntable, how easy is it to get it off that concrete plinth .. "
?

The retired couple across the road have offered the use of their
radiogram but I'm not sure how well it would cope with Quo or how well
the album will cope with a stylus that has re-treaded a good few 78's
in it's time ?? ;-)

So, it's off to "Elastic bands R us" tomorrow to see what I can find
... and yes I'm (currently) too tight (I call it 'carefull' Geoff g)
to spend a fiver on *anything* if I don't need to and for what could
be a short lived experiment. When I was working in the City, a whim
like this would have me off to Richer Sounds in my lunch hour and no
need to explain what was in the box when I got home .. sigh ;-(

All the best to all ..

T i m

p.s. .. now where is my puncture repair outfit so I can cycle to the
shops tomorrow ... ;-(

p.p.s. I bought some 'special 'Superglue' at the Model Engineering Exp
this year that is very good for bonding rubber. The guy demos it by
cutting through a large 'O' ring, dabing a drop of the stuff on the
end (butt) joint and 3 seconds later playing tug-of-war with the
biggest bloke standing nearby .. nearly pulled me over! blush

In message , T i m
writes

The Maplin solution (not the same as the stuff for disolving
intestines PeterS) looks pretty good but with the diameter of the
drive flange (I can say 'flange'' here can't I?) at about 200mm I
don't know if a 195 or 210 diameter one would be best (the drive
spindle is about 15mm away from the flange (there, I said it again))

Well you're going to have to do some junior school maths (as I did) -
half the circumference of each of the flanges (if that's what you want
to call them and add twice the distance between centres (which won't be
exact as the belt doesn't come off at right angles, but wtf, it's close
enough. Take off a couple of mm for a bit of tension and convert it back
into a diameter ... find the closest

;-)

However, even with the p&p doubling the cost it still might just be
cheaper than driving to my *local* HiFi shop if I knew where that was

Everyone with a BT phone, every business and lots of other places have a
yellow pages, don't be a tit.

(but thanks for that Geoff) and being ripped off for one (£5.99
against £2.99 at Maplin if I one was near?). Either way it still seems
a lot of money for a rubber band?

Ok, I could borrow a decent deck (T.N.P.) if ....

1) I knew anyone that had one ...

2) Was likely to get them to lend it to me .. "Fred, your Linn Sondek
LP12 turntable, how easy is it to get it off that concrete plinth .. "
?

The retired couple across the road have offered the use of their
radiogram but I'm not sure how well it would cope with Quo or how well
the album will cope with a stylus that has re-treaded a good few 78's
in it's time ?? ;-)

Thorns plucked from the hedgerow are good


So, it's off to "Elastic bands R us" tomorrow to see what I can find
.. and yes I'm (currently) too tight (I call it 'carefull' Geoff g)
to spend a fiver on *anything* if I don't need to and for what could
be a short lived experiment. When I was working in the City, a whim
like this would have me off to Richer Sounds in my lunch hour and no
need to explain what was in the box when I got home .. sigh ;-(

All the best to all ..

T i m

p.s. .. now where is my puncture repair outfit so I can cycle to the
shops tomorrow ... ;-(

Nah, the post office sorting office is a good source of free rubber
bands. It is, in fact, where I got my temporary drive belt from (well,
actually they delivered it to me, wrapped around some envelopes)


p.p.s. I bought some 'special 'Superglue' at the Model Engineering Exp
this year that is very good for bonding rubber. The guy demos it by
cutting through a large 'O' ring, dabing a drop of the stuff on the
end (butt) joint and 3 seconds later playing tug-of-war with the
biggest bloke standing nearby .. nearly pulled me over! blush

More Weetabix for breakfast

--
geoff

In article , "Jason
Judge" says...

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , Badger
writes
...
Length of inner tube, cut into a strip and some super glue?

Superglue isn't flexible enough, if one was to go down this unadvisable
route, at least use the right adhesive

Superglue is absolutely the right stuff for rubber. It bonds the rubber to
itself extremely well through chemical action, and does nor form the normal
'crispy' layer that you would normally expect, and so gives you a
flexible-enough join to be indistinguishable from the rest of the rubber.

I once repaired a bike puncture with superglue and a bit of plastic
bag (I was in the middle of nowhere) - it worked so well I forgot
about it until I got another puncture months later.

On Tue, 03 May 2005 23:27:00 GMT, raden wrote:


Well you're going to have to do some junior school maths (as I did) -
half the circumference of each of the flanges (if that's what you want
to call them and add twice the distance between centres (which won't be
exact as the belt doesn't come off at right angles, but wtf, it's close
enough. Take off a couple of mm for a bit of tension and convert it back
into a diameter ... find the closest

Thanks for that .. I think a bit of string wrapped round the belt path
then measured may be more accurate in this case as the drive motor is
pretty close to the platter flange? The 'issues' may be having
sufficient choice of lengths and knowing what is the 'correct'
tension?


However, even with the p&p doubling the cost it still might just be
cheaper than driving to my *local* HiFi shop if I knew where that was

Everyone with a BT phone, every business and lots of other places have a
yellow pages, don't be a tit.

I can't help 'being a tit' .. I've been one the 48 years I've lived
'locally' and as I know most of the shops I would imagine I would know
of any HiFi ones. Like all the (local) petrol stations that have now
become flats or hand car washes any ordinary HiFi shops that 'were'
are now charity or card shops? Those that are left only stock very
specilised gear and a belt from them (or even an elestic band) would
be at least 20 quid?


The retired couple across the road have offered the use of their
radiogram but I'm not sure how well it would cope with Quo or how well
the album will cope with a stylus that has re-treaded a good few 78's
in it's time ?? ;-)

Thorns plucked from the hedgerow are good

They actually have cactus so maybe they grow their own anyway? ;-)

p.s. .. now where is my puncture repair outfit so I can cycle to the
shops tomorrow ... ;-(

Nah, the post office sorting office is a good source of free rubber
bands. It is, in fact, where I got my temporary drive belt from (well,
actually they delivered it to me, wrapped around some envelopes)

Our postie prefers to scatter them along the pavement as he goes ..
maybe it's so he can find his way back?


p.p.s. I bought some 'special 'Superglue' at the Model Engineering Exp
this year that is very good for bonding rubber. The guy demos it by
cutting through a large 'O' ring, dabing a drop of the stuff on the
end (butt) joint and 3 seconds later playing tug-of-war with the
biggest bloke standing nearby .. nearly pulled me over! blush

More Weetabix for breakfast

When I have them it's normally 4 (or 3 shredded wheat), I think it was
Alpen that day .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

In article , "T i m"
says...
On Tue, 03 May 2005 23:27:00 GMT, raden wrote:


Well you're going to have to do some junior school maths (as I did) -
half the circumference of each of the flanges (if that's what you want
to call them and add twice the distance between centres (which won't be
exact as the belt doesn't come off at right angles, but wtf, it's close
enough. Take off a couple of mm for a bit of tension and convert it back
into a diameter ... find the closest

Thanks for that .. I think a bit of string wrapped round the belt path
then measured may be more accurate in this case as the drive motor is
pretty close to the platter flange? The 'issues' may be having
sufficient choice of lengths and knowing what is the 'correct'
tension?

Unless you have some strange design of turntable you should find a
belt that fits around the platten without falling off yet without
being tight is near enough the right size.

On Wed, 04 May 2005 06:53:02 GMT, T i m wrote:

Thanks for that .. I think a bit of string wrapped round the belt path
then measured may be more accurate in this case as the drive motor is
pretty close to the platter flange? The 'issues' may be having
sufficient choice of lengths and knowing what is the 'correct'
tension?

Hi,

This page has some avice on sizing:

http://www.goodwins-online.co.uk/index.php?product=turntables&prod_name=Turntable%2 0Belts&list=2

and some info on Hitachi belts which may help he

http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/hitachi.html
http://www.turntablebasics.com/beltmodels.html

you must know someone near a Maplins shop that could put one in the
post, their stock check facility can help out here too.

cheers,
Pete.

Jason Judge wrote:

"raden" wrote in message
...

In message , Badger
writes

...
Length of inner tube, cut into a strip and some super glue?

Superglue isn't flexible enough, if one was to go down this unadvisable
route, at least use the right adhesive


Superglue is absolutely the right stuff for rubber. It bonds the rubber to
itself extremely well through chemical action, and does nor form the normal
'crispy' layer that you would normally expect, and so gives you a
flexible-enough join to be indistinguishable from the rest of the rubber.


It does form a crispy layer, but if you use a very little of it, its not
too bad.

-- JJ

T i m wrote:

On Tue, 03 May 2005 22:13:41 +0100, Pete C
wrote:



2.99 from Maplins, (poss. FJ20W?):

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=3088&TabID=1&source=15&WorldI D=&doy=3m5

see also note under FAQ.


Tim finally gets the superglue off his fingers and types

Thanks to all that replied and the advice warnings re a diy belt. ;-)

The Maplin solution (not the same as the stuff for disolving
intestines PeterS) looks pretty good but with the diameter of the
drive flange (I can say 'flange'' here can't I?) at about 200mm I
don't know if a 195 or 210 diameter one would be best (the drive
spindle is about 15mm away from the flange (there, I said it again))
;-)

However, even with the p&p doubling the cost it still might just be
cheaper than driving to my *local* HiFi shop if I knew where that was
(but thanks for that Geoff) and being ripped off for one (£5.99
against £2.99 at Maplin if I one was near?). Either way it still seems
a lot of money for a rubber band?

Ok, I could borrow a decent deck (T.N.P.) if ....

1) I knew anyone that had one ...

2) Was likely to get them to lend it to me .. "Fred, your Linn Sondek
LP12 turntable, how easy is it to get it off that concrete plinth .. "
?


Well if you are anywhere near west suffolk, Ive got a direct drive
parallel tracking revox doing not much these days, with an ortofon in it.


p.p.s. I bought some 'special 'Superglue' at the Model Engineering Exp
this year that is very good for bonding rubber. The guy demos it by
cutting through a large 'O' ring, dabing a drop of the stuff on the
end (butt) joint and 3 seconds later playing tug-of-war with the
biggest bloke standing nearby .. nearly pulled me over! blush


Yup. Its how I make tyres for the toy planes. Using bits of foam cord
from a vintage car parts supplier...

T i m wrote:

Tim finally gets the superglue off his fingers and types

Thanks to all that replied and the advice warnings re a diy belt. ;-)

The Maplin solution (not the same as the stuff for disolving
intestines PeterS) looks pretty good but with the diameter of the
drive flange (I can say 'flange'' here can't I?) at about 200mm I
don't know if a 195 or 210 diameter one would be best (the drive
spindle is about 15mm away from the flange (there, I said it again))
;-)

However, even with the p&p doubling the cost it still might just be
cheaper than driving to my *local* HiFi shop if I knew where that was
(but thanks for that Geoff) and being ripped off for one (=A35.99
against =A32.99 at Maplin if I one was near?). Either way it still
seems
a lot of money for a rubber band?

Ok, I could borrow a decent deck (T.N.P.) if ....

1) I knew anyone that had one ...

2) Was likely to get them to lend it to me .. "Fred, your Linn
Sondek
LP12 turntable, how easy is it to get it off that concrete plinth ..
"
?

The retired couple across the road have offered the use of their
radiogram but I'm not sure how well it would cope with Quo or how
well
the album will cope with a stylus that has re-treaded a good few 78's
in it's time ?? ;-)

it would work, and in most cases not damage, but the worst ones do
eventually trash records, grinding noise and distortion into them.
Might improve the sound of the bands chosen. Its crystal pickups and
broken needles that are the problems. Ceramics are more popular than
xtal, but anything that looks 50s or earlier is better avoided if you
want to keep the records long term.

BTW dirty records can be cleaned with water and washing liquid, but it
takes repeated wiping along the grooves to dislodge the deep crud.

It would be an education for her to hear just how totally sh1te those
grams sound, but would no doubt put her right off records. 8 tracks
next, or wire recorders?

78s are a lot more flexible, so to speak, in that you can play them
with a plastic cup, a thorn and a huge card horn. Sadly the almost non
existence of anything worth listening to is a problem. But you can
record your own on ali sheet blanks.

You can always make your own pickup and feed it thru the hifi. I had
good results (ok, delete the 'good') with earpieces, copper wire and
assorted needles.


So, it's off to "Elastic bands R us" tomorrow to see what I can find

if you must make your own belt, use flat knicker elastic and sew the
ends together with thread. You'll want to use pliers to force the
needle through, it grips like a grippy thing. If the elastic is wo weak
you cant butt sew it, make the overlap lump curved to avoid a thump as
it crosses the motor spindle. Avoid cotton covered elastic if poss, it
can work, but not well.

If you keep the belt tension low you wont notice any thump, even with a
bad join. Thats assuming its an ali platter, not a 5g plastic one,
which create their own noise and amplify it as a sort of ongoing
perennial winge about being made of plastic. Those can at least be
tamed a bit with a thick rubber mat, or lots of plasticine underneath.

Tension needed is minimal, it has to turn a tt on a central bearing and
deal with the friction off a massive 2g of stylus.

You can explain that wow and flutter is a good 1000x what it is on
computerised systems, and with one of those strobe speed cards watch
the lines go backwards and forwards as the speed goes up and down each
revolution. And watch the pickup geometry as it progressively twists
relative to the grooves. And explain why it howls when you turn the
volume up, and where all the snap crackle and pop comes from. And if
her IQ is in single figures, why no-one uses them any more. Yes you can
make top quality decks, but not at sensible prices.


NT

T i m wrote:

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

Anyone suggested CPC yet? They have a range at reasonable prices.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

wrote:


You can explain that wow and flutter is a good 1000x what it is on
computerised systems, and with one of those strobe speed cards watch
the lines go backwards and forwards as the speed goes up and down each
revolution. And watch the pickup geometry as it progressively twists
relative to the grooves. And explain why it howls when you turn the
volume up, and where all the snap crackle and pop comes from. And if
her IQ is in single figures, why no-one uses them any more. Yes you can
make top quality decks, but not at sensible prices.

And in any case, a £50 quid CD player these days out outperforms a £1000
turntable.



NT

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

And in any case, a £50 quid CD player these days out outperforms a £1000
turntable.

Not wholly true. I'd say £200 CD vs. £400 turntable/cartridge for a
shoot out. The question is does the information coded on CD's outperform
the information pressed on LP's? I've got identical albums on both CD
and Vinyl which not all the time sound better on CD. Blame the recording
companies for that one....

---
Adrian

Adrian C wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:


And in any case, a £50 quid CD player these days out outperforms a
£1000 turntable.

Not wholly true. I'd say £200 CD vs. £400 turntable/cartridge for a
shoot out. The question is does the information coded on CD's outperform
the information pressed on LP's? I've got identical albums on both CD
and Vinyl which not all the time sound better on CD. Blame the recording
companies for that one....


Yes, but we aren't comparing CD's to LPs but cd players to turntables.

Asssuming they are accurately timed and have decent D to A converters -
(1 bit 4 x oversampling with maybe interploation) and decent fliters,
then they are going to be free of all wow flutter and resonance, and
have a razor flat respionse from DC to the Nyquist cutoff minus the
necessary guard band, and be as high S/N ratio as the recording
methodology allows. 50 quid

To do that with a turntable means mounting it on a huge slab of
conceret, possibluy ins a soundproof casing. using a hiuege
electromecahniacl system to spin it at exactly teh right RPM, probabluyy
air beraiungs to stop teh rumble, and a very very well set up arm and
cartridge accurately matched to a very carefully designed low noise
pre-amp. 5000 quid.

You may LIKE all those subtle rumbles and resonances - lots of people do
- but they are in no way a sign of technical excellece.



---
Adrian

On Wed, 4 May 2005 09:26:45 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:


Unless you have some strange design of turntable you should find a
belt that fits around the platten without falling off yet without
being tight is near enough the right size.

I don't think it'sa strange one Rob .. and what you describe fit's
what I have seen on similar in the past, thanks ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 04 May 2005 10:11:44 +0100, Pete C
wrote:


This page has some avice on sizing:

http://www.goodwins-online.co.uk/index.php?product=turntables&prod_name=Turntable%2 0Belts&list=2

Hmm, thanks for the links Pete .. the deck is a HT-20s and according
to the above the belt code is a FM 22.4

and some info on Hitachi belts which may help he

http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/hitachi.html
http://www.turntablebasics.com/beltmodels.html

Now with a drive flange circumference of 24.5" and the link suggesting
the belt is 22.4" circumference I assume it can take the 2" stretch
ok?

you must know someone near a Maplins shop that could put one in the
post, their stock check facility can help out here too.

I was thinking that ... or do that tempting bit of building the order
up to 30 quid for free postage .. ;-)

That sounds like ..

Her: "I've *saved* £10 on these shoes"
Me: "No you've *spent* £30 on those shoes .". ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

On Wed, 04 May 2005 13:37:07 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:



Well if you are anywhere near west suffolk, Ive got a direct drive
parallel tracking revox doing not much these days, with an ortofon in it.

You are very kind .. ( I'm not *near* wast suffolk but have been
known to go that way sometimes .. used to go to USAF Mildenhall quite
a bit). I also had a vertical tracking Sharp system. The record had to
be pushed onto the hub like a laptop CD drive. There were little in
the way of tracking errors (being parallel) and being vertical there
was no heavy arm to counterbalance and therefore low inerita? From
memory it worked fairly well but not the sort of thing you would find
on an audiophiles shopping list!


p.p.s. I bought some 'special 'Superglue' at the Model Engineering Exp
this year that is very good for bonding rubber. The guy demos it by
cutting through a large 'O' ring, dabing a drop of the stuff on the
end (butt) joint and 3 seconds later playing tug-of-war with the
biggest bloke standing nearby .. nearly pulled me over! blush


Yup. Its how I make tyres for the toy planes. Using bits of foam cord
from a vintage car parts supplier...

Is this 'toy' or RC model?

All the best ..

T i m

On 4 May 2005 05:59:12 -0700, wrote:


The retired couple across the road have offered the use of their
radiogram but I'm not sure how well it would cope with Quo or how
well
the album will cope with a stylus that has re-treaded a good few 78's
in it's time ?? ;-)

it would work, and in most cases not damage, but the worst ones do
eventually trash records, grinding noise and distortion into them.
Might improve the sound of the bands chosen.

I won't mention her first concerts have been Rammstein and Megadeth
then? ;-)

Its crystal pickups and
broken needles that are the problems. Ceramics are more popular than
xtal, but anything that looks 50s or earlier is better avoided if you
want to keep the records long term.

Ok ..

BTW dirty records can be cleaned with water and washing liquid, but it
takes repeated wiping along the grooves to dislodge the deep crud.

Now you mention it I remember doing so as a lad ;-)

It would be an education for her to hear just how totally sh1te those
grams sound, but would no doubt put her right off records. 8 tracks
next, or wire recorders?

Well you have touched on part of the 'goal' here .. and that's her
education. We have 'talked' to her about stuff from a babe, and have
played / demonstrated with stuff as well. I had her soldering at 5
years old and angle grinding / pillar drilling and MIG welding at 8.
She also raced 12th scale cars and was winning ballroom dancing
awards. I believe exposing her to all this stuff, old or futuristic is
all part of what helps round her as a person. Some of her mates are
more intelligent but come across as naive re worldly things in
comparison?

78s are a lot more flexible, so to speak, in that you can play them
with a plastic cup, a thorn and a huge card horn. Sadly the almost non
existence of anything worth listening to is a problem. But you can
record your own on ali sheet blanks.

The couple across the road have some ... maybe we can 'play' over
there .. ;-)

You can always make your own pickup and feed it thru the hifi. I had
good results (ok, delete the 'good') with earpieces, copper wire and
assorted needles.

Sounds like fun .. the the first sounds from your first Xtal set ..
;-)


So, it's off to "Elastic bands R us" tomorrow to see what I can find

if you must make your own belt, use flat knicker elastic and sew the
ends together with thread.

I knew someone would think of just the right ready made section .. and
I bet it's 2d / mile (and we actually have a local haberdashers and
Woolworths) ;-)

You'll want to use pliers to force the
needle through, it grips like a grippy thing. If the elastic is wo weak
you cant butt sew it, make the overlap lump curved to avoid a thump as
it crosses the motor spindle. Avoid cotton covered elastic if poss, it
can work, but not well.

Gotcha .. or maybe my Supa Supaglue ..

If you keep the belt tension low you wont notice any thump, even with a
bad join. Thats assuming its an ali platter, not a 5g plastic one,

No, a reasonable weight and thickish rim ally one ..

which create their own noise and amplify it as a sort of ongoing
perennial winge about being made of plastic. Those can at least be
tamed a bit with a thick rubber mat, or lots of plasticine underneath.

Loads of inertia ;-)

Tension needed is minimal, it has to turn a tt on a central bearing and
deal with the friction off a massive 2g of stylus.

Indeed ..

You can explain that wow and flutter is a good 1000x what it is on
computerised systems,

But hey .. that's part of the character?

and with one of those strobe speed cards watch
the lines go backwards and forwards as the speed goes up and down each
revolution.

And so doing learn a bit about strobes ..

And watch the pickup geometry as it progressively twists
relative to the grooves.

Yep and that any compensation has to work with those effects?

And explain why it howls when you turn the
volume up,

I even 'resolved' that one for my nephew recently on the CD system
they were about to throw away ... I lifted it up off the same shelf as
the speakers ...

and where all the snap crackle and pop comes from.

Breakfast?

And if
her IQ is in single figures, why no-one uses them any more.

I think her IQ is reasonable (she's been offered a place at one of
those "Gifted and Talented Childeren" orgs but "I don't want to play
chess with geeks thanks" was her reply g) and is genuinley
entertained by the stuff her and her old dad play with (mostly) ;-)

Yes you can
make top quality decks, but not at sensible prices.

We don't want to invent the wheel do we .. just play with it ;-)

All the best fella ..

T i m

We were talking this morning about the new Hitchhikers film and she
said she didn't want to see it as it looked from the clips like it
didn't follow the image of the key characters like Marvin and Zaphod
from the book and TV shows very well. I said "well they aren't trying
to .. they are trying to follow the spirit of it whilst putting a more
modern slant on it ..?" She replied "like it needs more slant .. any
more slant and it would be horizontial!" (well it made me chuckle
anyway) ;-)

On Wed, 04 May 2005 14:34:38 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

T i m wrote:

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

Anyone suggested CPC yet? They have a range at reasonable prices.

You're the first John ... thanks, I'll look ..

T i m

On Wed, 04 May 2005 18:33:02 GMT, T i m wrote:

and some info on Hitachi belts which may help he

http://www.turntablebasics.com/belts/hitachi.html
http://www.turntablebasics.com/beltmodels.html

Now with a drive flange circumference of 24.5" and the link suggesting
the belt is 22.4" circumference I assume it can take the 2" stretch
ok?

10% sounds about right to me.

you must know someone near a Maplins shop that could put one in the
post, their stock check facility can help out here too.

I was thinking that ... or do that tempting bit of building the order
up to 30 quid for free postage .. ;-)

And then find later the extra bits have gone on sale for £5 less...
;((

cheers,
Pete.

Hi Tim
Thought I'd replied earlier, but it doesn't seem to have got
through...

A couple of things used for motor-platter linkage on 'high end d-i-y'
turntables a

- fishing line, tied with a reef knot
- dental floss, tied similarly I guess

Seems bizzare, I know, but these are supposed to sound _better_ than a
belt. I'd imagine how well this works depends on the diameter and shape
of your motor pulley amongst other things. Might be worth a try...

Jon N

T i m wrote:
On Wed, 04 May 2005 14:34:38 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

T i m wrote:

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all
I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

Anyone suggested CPC yet? They have a range at reasonable prices.

You're the first John ... thanks, I'll look ..

T i m

In message , T i m
writes
On Tue, 03 May 2005 23:27:00 GMT, raden wrote:


Well you're going to have to do some junior school maths (as I did) -
half the circumference of each of the flanges (if that's what you want
to call them and add twice the distance between centres (which won't be
exact as the belt doesn't come off at right angles, but wtf, it's close
enough. Take off a couple of mm for a bit of tension and convert it back
into a diameter ... find the closest

Thanks for that .. I think a bit of string wrapped round the belt path
then measured may be more accurate in this case as the drive motor is
pretty close to the platter flange?

Wen I tried that it was a bit out for some reason, despite doing it a
couple of times with flat tape (rather than string)

The 'issues' may be having
sufficient choice of lengths and knowing what is the 'correct'
tension?

Well, it was a bit trial and error in my case, until I did it
mathematically. Luckily my local hi-fi shop played along.



However, even with the p&p doubling the cost it still might just be
cheaper than driving to my *local* HiFi shop if I knew where that was

Everyone with a BT phone, every business and lots of other places have a
yellow pages, don't be a tit.

I can't help 'being a tit' .. I've been one the 48 years I've lived
'locally' and as I know most of the shops I would imagine I would know
of any HiFi ones. Like all the (local) petrol stations that have now
become flats or hand car washes any ordinary HiFi shops that 'were'
are now charity or card shops? Those that are left only stock very
specilised gear and a belt from them (or even an elestic band) would
be at least 20 quid?

Have you actually looked and have you actually asked ? (possibly an
irrelevant question of you're determined to skinflint it for nix). My
local Hi-fi shop is quite up market, however, a fiver (eventually ) got
me the correct belt



The retired couple across the road have offered the use of their
radiogram but I'm not sure how well it would cope with Quo or how well
the album will cope with a stylus that has re-treaded a good few 78's
in it's time ?? ;-)

Thorns plucked from the hedgerow are good

They actually have cactus so maybe they grow their own anyway? ;-)

The best way (as long as you don't get caught)


p.s. .. now where is my puncture repair outfit so I can cycle to the
shops tomorrow ... ;-(

Nah, the post office sorting office is a good source of free rubber
bands. It is, in fact, where I got my temporary drive belt from (well,
actually they delivered it to me, wrapped around some envelopes)

Our postie prefers to scatter them along the pavement as he goes ..
maybe it's so he can find his way back?

Which is why I put the words "sorting office" in



p.p.s. I bought some 'special 'Superglue' at the Model Engineering Exp
this year that is very good for bonding rubber. The guy demos it by
cutting through a large 'O' ring, dabing a drop of the stuff on the
end (butt) joint and 3 seconds later playing tug-of-war with the
biggest bloke standing nearby .. nearly pulled me over! blush

More Weetabix for breakfast

When I have them it's normally 4 (or 3 shredded wheat), I think it was
Alpen that day .. ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

--
geoff

In message , John
Rumm writes
T i m wrote:

I dug out an old Hitachi turntable but the belt had turned into
liquorice ??? I tried a couple of different elastic bands but all I
could find was either too tight (short) or narrow (this deck needs
summat about 24" (61cm) long (circumference), 3/16" (5mm) wide and
about .5mm thick)?

Anyone suggested CPC yet? They have a range at reasonable prices.

Hmm, now why didn't I think of that ?

--
geoff

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Yes, but we aren't comparing CD's to LPs but cd players to turntables.

Asssuming they are accurately timed and have decent D to A converters -
(1 bit 4 x oversampling with maybe interploation) and decent fliters,
then they are going to be free of all wow flutter and resonance, and
have a razor flat respionse from DC to the Nyquist cutoff minus the
necessary guard band, and be as high S/N ratio as the recording
methodology allows. 50 quid

To do that with a turntable means mounting it on a huge slab of
conceret, possibluy ins a soundproof casing. using a hiuege
electromecahniacl system to spin it at exactly teh right RPM,
probabluyy air beraiungs to stop teh rumble, and a very very well set
up arm and cartridge accurately matched to a very carefully designed
low noise pre-amp. 5000 quid.

But when listening to ZZtop etc, does it really matter ?

--
geoff

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snipped agreed with stuff

You may LIKE all those subtle rumbles and resonances - lots of people do
- but they are in no way a sign of technical excellece.


But with me, it IS the recorded media that I have collected. I do have
(naturally as time marches on and things get remastered) a lot of CD
recordings that trounce over 'groove-crammed' tracks I still have on
vinyl. Play those CD's on a £50 player & the vinyl on that OTT £5000
(it's gone up now - your last post £1000! ah... Gold plating) and I
might agree (but the post-digital stuff in that £50 player will be
suspect still...)

I have though got a few LP's where it's the other way round - and even
though mechanical wow & flutter, clicks and scratches *might* diminish
the experience, It's still an experience which still keeps my deck
spinning and makes me yern to spend more money on this mechanical marvel
before audio shops of the world stops selling them.

Must get along to Wickes for some more concrete...

:-)
---
Adrian

In message , Adrian C
writes
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

snipped agreed with stuff

You may LIKE all those subtle rumbles and resonances - lots of people
do - but they are in no way a sign of technical excellece.


But with me, it IS the recorded media that I have collected. I do have
(naturally as time marches on and things get remastered) a lot of CD
recordings that trounce over 'groove-crammed' tracks I still have on
vinyl. Play those CD's on a £50 player & the vinyl on that OTT £5000
(it's gone up now - your last post £1000! ah... Gold plating) and I
might agree (but the post-digital stuff in that £50 player will be
suspect still...)

I have though got a few LP's

I have just shy of 1000

I think the record deck will be around for some time yet

--
geoff

In message .com, jkn
writes
Hi Tim
Thought I'd replied earlier, but it doesn't seem to have got
through...

A couple of things used for motor-platter linkage on 'high end d-i-y'
turntables a

- fishing line, tied with a reef knot
- dental floss, tied similarly I guess

Seems bizzare, I know, but these are supposed to sound _better_ than a
belt. I'd imagine how well this works depends on the diameter and shape
of your motor pulley amongst other things. Might be worth a try...

Well, my drive wheel''s bevelled

I don't think fishing line would stay on

--
geoff

On 4 May 2005 14:30:16 -0700, "jkn" wrote:

Hi Tim
Thought I'd replied earlier, but it doesn't seem to have got
through...

Thanks for trying again Jon ;-)

A couple of things used for motor-platter linkage on 'high end d-i-y'
turntables a

- fishing line, tied with a reef knot
- dental floss, tied similarly I guess

Seems bizzare, I know, but these are supposed to sound _better_ than a
belt.

I think the elasticity of a belt is supposed to reduce the flutter but
equally if the linkage between motor and platter were more
rigid(dental floss) the platter's mass should (could?) moderate the
motor to some degree?

I'd imagine how well this works depends on the diameter and shape
of your motor pulley amongst other things. Might be worth a try...

As you say .. I sorta have tried, in the form of a fairly thin
elastic band and as John confirms later the drive motor output in this
case is shaped like a barrel to ensure the belt self centres. I think
I have seen your solution in action where the drive pully is 'V'
shaped though and then the thin round / square line might work ok ..
;-)

All the best and thanks for the second post ;-)

T i m