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  #11   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 01:39 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On 12/4/2018 6:43 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

* Well , Mr. Compressor has a case of the humms . That is , when I try
to start it , it just humms (until the O/L cuts it off if I let it go
that long). This is the original motor on an old Speedaire 60 gallon
tank , 220 volts and 3450 RPM's . Specs call for 15 amps full load ,
rated output is 2.98Kw , about 6 hp . This is an Emerson/Doerr
compressor duty motor .* Tested both caps , one is good and the other
isn't according to the tests with my DMM . Problem is that the bad cap
has rubbed the capacitance and voltage ratings off the label . Got a
couple of calls in , looked around on the internet , can't find a
definite answer . I'm pretty sure it needs to be around 250uf and at
least 250 volts - though maybe higher voltage to account for spikes . I
have the motor type/classification numbers , just can't find a reference
to check ... anybody got a lead on that type of info ?


I had a similar problem a few years ago with my Speedaire 20 gallon
2hp. My caps checked out. Ended up cleaning the contacts on the
starting/centrifugal switch. Has been okay since. Take a look at this
pdf file and see it it lists your motor:

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/gr...PREADSHEET.pdf

It had mine in it plus quite a few more...

* Thanks Leon , my motor is listed ! For a 606727 motor - that's what
is on my tag - it calls for a 704 mfd at 110 volts . Hmmm , that doesn't
seem right since this is a 220 volt motor . If doubling the voltage
halves the capacitance needed , a 330-380 mfd cap would seem about right
.... I just found a contact link for Emerson , messaged them . We'll see
what they say . I never really thought about how much I use that
compressed air until I don't have it ... and since my ne'er-do-well son
has apparently burned up my small portable for me , I'm kinda in a pinch .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !


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Old December 4th 18, 03:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 95
Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:39:25 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

On 12/4/2018 6:43 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

[...]

I had a similar problem a few years ago with my Speedaire 20 gallon
2hp. My caps checked out. Ended up cleaning the contacts on the
starting/centrifugal switch. Has been okay since. Take a look at this
pdf file and see it it lists your motor:

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/gr...PREADSHEET.pdf

It had mine in it plus quite a few more...

* Thanks Leon , my motor is listed ! For a 606727 motor - that's what
is on my tag - it calls for a 704 mfd at 110 volts . Hmmm , that doesn't
seem right since this is a 220 volt motor . If doubling the voltage
halves the capacitance needed , a 330-380 mfd cap would seem about right
... I just found a contact link for Emerson , messaged them . We'll see
what they say . I never really thought about how much I use that
compressed air until I don't have it ... and since my ne'er-do-well son
has apparently burned up my small portable for me , I'm kinda in a pinch .


Mine is wired for 110 but can be switched to 220v by moving wires in
the motor. The start cap is 649MFD and 110VAC with a plastic case. The
run cap is in a metal case. So that 110 value maybe okay (shrug). A
picture he

https://i.postimg.cc/J7qVkvJD/DSCF0143.jpg

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

  #13   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 05:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 08:03:25 -0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:44:44 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600, Terry Coombs ... wrote:
* Well , Mr. Compressor has a case of the humms . That is , when I try
to start it , it just humms (until the O/L cuts it off if I let it go
that long). This is the original motor on an old Speedaire 60 gallon
tank , 220 volts and 3450 RPM's . Specs call for 15 amps full load ,
rated output is 2.98Kw , about 6 hp . This is an Emerson/Doerr
compressor duty motor .* Tested both caps , one is good and the other
isn't according to the tests with my DMM . Problem is that the bad cap
has rubbed the capacitance and voltage ratings off the label . Got a
couple of calls in , looked around on the internet , can't find a
definite answer . I'm pretty sure it needs to be around 250uf and at
least 250 volts - though maybe higher voltage to account for spikes . I
have the motor type/classification numbers , just can't find a reference
to check ... anybody got a lead on that type of info ?


That will be the start cap - 275 volt and 80-100 uf

Don't take my word for it - take a look where I got the info:

https://inspectapedia.com/electric/M..._Selection.php


The tables at that link appear to only go up to about 1 HP (.746 kW)
and it looks like 80-110 uf is the .373 kW entry in the 220V table,
instead of corresponding to the 6 HP (2.98 kW) Terry mentioned.

A formula at http://homeenergypros.org/profiles/b...ctly-sizing-a-
capacitor
suggests about 164 uF for 3 kW. [2652*amps/volts, ie, 2652*13.6/220].
A rule of thumb in www.elcomp.net/conis.pdf suggests 30-50 uF per kW
(for a 220V 50Hz motor) ie 90 to 150 uF for a 3 kW motor. A formula at
https://www.electricneutron.com/elec...ase-capacitor-
sizing/ calls for a power factor number; I didn't calculate that one.

My bad. My old eyes missed the decimal point
  #14   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 05:11 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 2,014
Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:39:25 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 12/4/2018 6:43 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

* Well , Mr. Compressor has a case of the humms . That is , when I try
to start it , it just humms (until the O/L cuts it off if I let it go
that long). This is the original motor on an old Speedaire 60 gallon
tank , 220 volts and 3450 RPM's . Specs call for 15 amps full load ,
rated output is 2.98Kw , about 6 hp . This is an Emerson/Doerr
compressor duty motor .* Tested both caps , one is good and the other
isn't according to the tests with my DMM . Problem is that the bad cap
has rubbed the capacitance and voltage ratings off the label . Got a
couple of calls in , looked around on the internet , can't find a
definite answer . I'm pretty sure it needs to be around 250uf and at
least 250 volts - though maybe higher voltage to account for spikes . I
have the motor type/classification numbers , just can't find a reference
to check ... anybody got a lead on that type of info ?


I had a similar problem a few years ago with my Speedaire 20 gallon
2hp. My caps checked out. Ended up cleaning the contacts on the
starting/centrifugal switch. Has been okay since. Take a look at this
pdf file and see it it lists your motor:

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/gr...PREADSHEET.pdf

It had mine in it plus quite a few more...

* Thanks Leon , my motor is listed ! For a 606727 motor - that's what
is on my tag - it calls for a 704 mfd at 110 volts . Hmmm , that doesn't
seem right since this is a 220 volt motor . If doubling the voltage
halves the capacitance needed , a 330-380 mfd cap would seem about right
... I just found a contact link for Emerson , messaged them . We'll see
what they say . I never really thought about how much I use that
compressed air until I don't have it ... and since my ne'er-do-well son
has apparently burned up my small portable for me , I'm kinda in a pinch .

The cap in your motor is only connected across one line and neutral,
that's why the 110 volt rating. The very high capacitance is because
the motor is a compressor rated motor and needs the extra torque. I
just went through all this a couple months ago. You really need to
check the starting switch. I guarantee it is easier and cheaper to
replace it with a motor starter if it is the problem. The phenolic
support for the switch in my motor warped which is why I opted the
replace it completely. Electric motors don't usually wear out unless
the windings are really stressed by high current, high voltage, high
temp operating conditions, moisture, etc. Bearings and starter
switches are what usually dies in a single phase electric motor. If
you do decide to replace the motor make sure it is rated for high
torque loads and check the shaft size. Ther is a good chance your
motor has a 25mm shaft, not 1 inch.
Eric
  #15   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 05:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,944
Default Back in service was : Compressors - kinda on topic !

On 12/4/2018 11:11 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:39:25 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 12/4/2018 6:43 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

* Well , Mr. Compressor has a case of the humms . That is , when I try
to start it , it just humms (until the O/L cuts it off if I let it go
that long). This is the original motor on an old Speedaire 60 gallon
tank , 220 volts and 3450 RPM's . Specs call for 15 amps full load ,
rated output is 2.98Kw , about 6 hp . This is an Emerson/Doerr
compressor duty motor .* Tested both caps , one is good and the other
isn't according to the tests with my DMM . Problem is that the bad cap
has rubbed the capacitance and voltage ratings off the label . Got a
couple of calls in , looked around on the internet , can't find a
definite answer . I'm pretty sure it needs to be around 250uf and at
least 250 volts - though maybe higher voltage to account for spikes . I
have the motor type/classification numbers , just can't find a reference
to check ... anybody got a lead on that type of info ?
I had a similar problem a few years ago with my Speedaire 20 gallon
2hp. My caps checked out. Ended up cleaning the contacts on the
starting/centrifugal switch. Has been okay since. Take a look at this
pdf file and see it it lists your motor:

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/gr...PREADSHEET.pdf

It had mine in it plus quite a few more...

* Thanks Leon , my motor is listed ! For a 606727 motor - that's what
is on my tag - it calls for a 704 mfd at 110 volts . Hmmm , that doesn't
seem right since this is a 220 volt motor . If doubling the voltage
halves the capacitance needed , a 330-380 mfd cap would seem about right
... I just found a contact link for Emerson , messaged them . We'll see
what they say . I never really thought about how much I use that
compressed air until I don't have it ... and since my ne'er-do-well son
has apparently burned up my small portable for me , I'm kinda in a pinch .

The cap in your motor is only connected across one line and neutral,
that's why the 110 volt rating. The very high capacitance is because
the motor is a compressor rated motor and needs the extra torque. I
just went through all this a couple months ago. You really need to
check the starting switch. I guarantee it is easier and cheaper to
replace it with a motor starter if it is the problem. The phenolic
support for the switch in my motor warped which is why I opted the
replace it completely. Electric motors don't usually wear out unless
the windings are really stressed by high current, high voltage, high
temp operating conditions, moisture, etc. Bearings and starter
switches are what usually dies in a single phase electric motor. If
you do decide to replace the motor make sure it is rated for high
torque loads and check the shaft size. Ther is a good chance your
motor has a 25mm shaft, not 1 inch.
Eric


* Well , I visited the neighbor , his compressor motor is also a 6 hp
Doerr motor so I borrowed his 189-230something start cap to test . My
motor spun up just fine with the belt off but wouldn't quite go with a
load . So I went to town and bought 2 , one at 243-292 and one at
340-408 . It will start under load with the smaller one , but starts
much better with the big one . It has always been a bit slower to start
when it's really cold out , so I'm going to leave the big one in for now
, try the smaller this summer and see what it does . Total cost to get
'er done was 31 bucks and change , much cheaper than a new motor !

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !



  #16   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 08:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,298
Default Back in service was : Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:51:13 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

* Well , I visited the neighbor , his compressor motor is also a 6 hp
Doerr motor so I borrowed his 189-230something start cap to test . My
motor spun up just fine with the belt off but wouldn't quite go with a
load . So I went to town and bought 2 , one at 243-292 and one at
340-408 . It will start under load with the smaller one ,


start under load? You dont have an unloader on your compressor???

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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  #17   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 08:16 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,298
Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:07:25 -0600, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 12/4/2018 2:03 AM, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:44:44 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600, Terry Coombs ... wrote:
* Well , Mr. Compressor has a case of the humms . That is , when I try
to start it , it just humms (until the O/L cuts it off if I let it go
that long). This is the original motor on an old Speedaire 60 gallon
tank , 220 volts and 3450 RPM's . Specs call for 15 amps full load ,
rated output is 2.98Kw , about 6 hp . This is an Emerson/Doerr
compressor duty motor .* Tested both caps , one is good and the other
isn't according to the tests with my DMM . Problem is that the bad cap
has rubbed the capacitance and voltage ratings off the label . Got a
couple of calls in , looked around on the internet , can't find a
definite answer . I'm pretty sure it needs to be around 250uf and at
least 250 volts - though maybe higher voltage to account for spikes . I
have the motor type/classification numbers , just can't find a reference
to check ... anybody got a lead on that type of info ?
That will be the start cap - 275 volt and 80-100 uf

Don't take my word for it - take a look where I got the info:

https://inspectapedia.com/electric/M..._Selection.php

The tables at that link appear to only go up to about 1 HP (.746 kW)
and it looks like 80-110 uf is the .373 kW entry in the 220V table,
instead of corresponding to the 6 HP (2.98 kW) Terry mentioned.

A formula at http://homeenergypros.org/profiles/b...ctly-sizing-a-
capacitor
suggests about 164 uF for 3 kW. [2652*amps/volts, ie, 2652*13.6/220].
A rule of thumb in www.elcomp.net/conis.pdf suggests 30-50 uF per kW
(for a 220V 50Hz motor) ie 90 to 150 uF for a 3 kW motor. A formula at
https://www.electricneutron.com/elec...ase-capacitor-
sizing/ calls for a power factor number; I didn't calculate that one.

* I visited the same site as Clare and I think his number is low too .
I don't recall which website I visited that had this formula : current x
10-6th divided by 2 x pi x frequency x voltage , the result of that
formula was 180 mfd ... I'm going over to my blacksmith neighbor's this
morning , he has a compressor very similar to mine . I'll check his
start cap to be sure but I believe the value needed is going to be a
little higher than that due to the high start torque needed for this
application . This is an Emerson/Doerr motor , but I can't find any info
on this specific motor ... it's at least 20 years old and the Emerson
site just burps and says "not found" when I enter the info from the tag
. I believe it's going to be somewhere in the 270-330 mfd range . I may
borrow the cap from the neighbor's compressor to see if it works on mine
since they're very similar . If I can't get it going I'm probably going
to order a new motor , they can be had for around 200 bucks and this one
is pretty old . At this point I've got less than that tied up in this
unit including the original (very used) purchase and parts to rebuild
the pump . Nowhere I know of to get a unit of this size and qualityfor
anywhere near that cheap , including a new motor .


Ive got a 6hp Harbor Freight motor on my old Dvillbiss compressor. Has
worked well for..humm...10+ yrs so far. Its mounted outdoors and it
gets rained on (when we get rain) and its held up quite well. I did
have to replace the start cap last year.

I think I paid somewhere around $100 or less for it then...rack up 10%
for inflation....


Gunner
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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  #18   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 08:19 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,298
Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:06:42 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:39:25 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

On 12/4/2018 6:43 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

[...]

I had a similar problem a few years ago with my Speedaire 20 gallon
2hp. My caps checked out. Ended up cleaning the contacts on the
starting/centrifugal switch. Has been okay since. Take a look at this
pdf file and see it it lists your motor:

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/gr...PREADSHEET.pdf

It had mine in it plus quite a few more...

* Thanks Leon , my motor is listed ! For a 606727 motor - that's what
is on my tag - it calls for a 704 mfd at 110 volts . Hmmm , that doesn't
seem right since this is a 220 volt motor . If doubling the voltage
halves the capacitance needed , a 330-380 mfd cap would seem about right
... I just found a contact link for Emerson , messaged them . We'll see
what they say . I never really thought about how much I use that
compressed air until I don't have it ... and since my ne'er-do-well son
has apparently burned up my small portable for me , I'm kinda in a pinch .


Mine is wired for 110 but can be switched to 220v by moving wires in
the motor. The start cap is 649MFD and 110VAC with a plastic case. The
run cap is in a metal case. So that 110 value maybe okay (shrug). A
picture he

https://i.postimg.cc/J7qVkvJD/DSCF0143.jpg


Many single phase motors are dual voltage. Though I do NOT recommend
starting a 6hp motor on 110vt.....can you say block wide brown out?

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

  #19   Report Post  
Old December 4th 18, 10:02 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,945
Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On Tuesday, December 4, 2018 at 8:07:23 AM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:
If I can't get it going I'm probably going
to order a new motor , they can be had for around 200 bucks and this one
is pretty old . At this point I've got less than that tied up in this
unit including the original (very used) purchase and parts to rebuild
the pump . Nowhere I know of to get a unit of this size and qualityfor
anywhere near that cheap , including a new motor .

--
Snag On 12/4/2018 2:03 AM, James Waldby wrote:
On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 00:44:44 -0500, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600, Terry Coombs ... wrote:
Well , Mr. Compressor has a case of the humms . That is , when I try
to start it , it just humms (until the O/L cuts it off if I let it go
that long). This is the original motor on an old Speedaire 60 gallon
tank , 220 volts and 3450 RPM's . Specs call for 15 amps full load ,
rated output is 2.98Kw , about 6 hp . This is an Emerson/Doerr
compressor duty motor . Tested both caps , one is good and the other
isn't according to the tests with my DMM . Problem is that the bad cap
has rubbed the capacitance and voltage ratings off the label . Got a
couple of calls in , looked around on the internet , can't find a
definite answer . I'm pretty sure it needs to be around 250uf and at
least 250 volts - though maybe higher voltage to account for spikes . I
have the motor type/classification numbers , just can't find a reference
to check ... anybody got a lead on that type of info ?
That will be the start cap - 275 volt and 80-100 uf

Don't take my word for it - take a look where I got the info:



If you can wait , I can probably come up with suitable motor or cap.

A few week- ago the scrap yard had 6 or maybe 12 swimming pool motors brand new in original boxes. And 3 phase motor are sometime available in the 50 or 100 hp sises, Smaller are most always available-

Dan
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !


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Old December 5th 18, 10:48 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 241
Default Compressors - kinda on topic !

On 04/12/2018 20:19, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 11:06:42 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 4 Dec 2018 07:39:25 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

On 12/4/2018 6:43 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:53:29 -0600
Terry Coombs wrote:

[...]
I had a similar problem a few years ago with my Speedaire 20 gallon
2hp. My caps checked out. Ended up cleaning the contacts on the
starting/centrifugal switch. Has been okay since. Take a look at this
pdf file and see it it lists your motor:

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/gr...PREADSHEET.pdf

It had mine in it plus quite a few more...

* Thanks Leon , my motor is listed ! For a 606727 motor - that's what
is on my tag - it calls for a 704 mfd at 110 volts . Hmmm , that doesn't
seem right since this is a 220 volt motor . If doubling the voltage
halves the capacitance needed , a 330-380 mfd cap would seem about right
... I just found a contact link for Emerson , messaged them . We'll see
what they say . I never really thought about how much I use that
compressed air until I don't have it ... and since my ne'er-do-well son
has apparently burned up my small portable for me , I'm kinda in a pinch .

Mine is wired for 110 but can be switched to 220v by moving wires in
the motor. The start cap is 649MFD and 110VAC with a plastic case. The
run cap is in a metal case. So that 110 value maybe okay (shrug). A
picture he

https://i.postimg.cc/J7qVkvJD/DSCF0143.jpg

Many single phase motors are dual voltage. Though I do NOT recommend
starting a 6hp motor on 110vt.....can you say block wide brown out?


Maybe in the USA but I've never seen one in the UK or Europe, only 240V
single phase motors as that's what the supply is. The only dual voltage
motors I've seen in the UK are 3 phase and that effects whether they're
wired star or delta. Conceivably construction site motors in the UK
could be dual voltage but that might be illegal, the construction site
motors here are 110V and wired like US split phase wiring with a centre
tapped neutral and each leg at 55V so a shock is deemed non lethal if a
single live is contacted.



__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


---
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