I dont know where to turn. I have a kohler 20 horse CV 624 motor from
a lawn mower. The rod broke and I replaced it. It now startes but revs
so high immediately I have to shut it down because I am afraid it will
blow up. I adjust the idle screw and it did fine for a minute then
went bacl to the high idle. I adjusted the govenor per the manual and
this did not help.

Any advice? I tried to not disturn the internal govenor when I tool
the old rod out. It looked like a plastic gear of some sort. To be
honest,k I dont 100% understand how the govenor works at least the
internal portion.

The govenor and idleing worked fine before I replaced the broken rod.

I am at a loss. I appreciate any help!

On 5/4/2012 11:23 AM, stryped wrote:
I dont know where to turn. I have a kohler 20 horse CV 624 motor from
a lawn mower. The rod broke and I replaced it. It now startes but revs
so high immediately I have to shut it down because I am afraid it will
blow up. I adjust the idle screw and it did fine for a minute then
went bacl to the high idle. I adjusted the govenor per the manual and
this did not help.

Any advice? I tried to not disturn the internal govenor when I tool
the old rod out. It looked like a plastic gear of some sort. To be
honest,k I dont 100% understand how the govenor works at least the
internal portion.

The govenor and idleing worked fine before I replaced the broken rod.

I am at a loss. I appreciate any help!

Not fully cognizant of the particulars of that engine but I'd guess
you're missing or misplaced the throttle return spring and instead of
holding the throttle position towards the closed position you're forcing
it full bore on and thereby defeating the governor.

I did it once on a B&S here...between dis- and re-assembly forget the
exact throttle linkage and the spring looked like it naturally went
right there and so...

--

On Fri, 04 May 2012 09:23:55 -0700, stryped wrote:

I dont know where to turn. I have a kohler 20 horse CV 624 motor from a
lawn mower. The rod broke and I replaced it. It now startes but revs so
high immediately I have to shut it down because I am afraid it will blow
up. I adjust the idle screw and it did fine for a minute then went bacl
to the high idle. I adjusted the govenor per the manual and this did not
help.

Any advice? I tried to not disturn the internal govenor when I tool the
old rod out. It looked like a plastic gear of some sort. To be honest,k
I dont 100% understand how the govenor works at least the internal
portion.

The govenor and idleing worked fine before I replaced the broken rod.

I am at a loss. I appreciate any help!

I'm almost certain that, one way or another, you've screwed up the
governor.

It could well be that when the rod broke it took out some part of the
internal governor with it; if that's the case then even if you faithfully
rebuilt exactly what you started with, you'd still be screwed.

I don't know the particulars of small engine governors, but in general
they have some way of measuring speed (either centrifugal or by wind
resistance), and when the speed is high they back off the throttle.
Whatever is in your engine, that's what you should be able to see.

A factory manual on the thing would probably be a huge help, and may be
available on the Internet. I'd start by matching what I have with what
the drawing says I should have, part by part. If that didn't bear fruit,
I'd call an acquaintance of mine who does small engine work when he's
bored or feeling generous, and see if he'd look at it.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On May 4, 12:22*pm, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Fri, 04 May 2012 09:23:55 -0700, stryped wrote:
I dont know where to turn. I have a kohler 20 horse CV 624 motor from a
lawn mower. The rod broke and I replaced it. It now startes but revs so
high immediately I have to shut it down because I am afraid it will blow
up. I adjust the idle screw and it did fine for a minute then went bacl
to the high idle. I adjusted the govenor per the manual and this did not
help.

Any advice? I tried to not disturn the internal govenor when I tool the
old rod out. It looked like a plastic gear of some sort. To be honest,k
I dont 100% understand how the govenor works at least the internal
portion.

The govenor and idleing worked fine before I replaced the broken rod.

I am at a loss. I appreciate any help!

I'm almost certain that, one way or another, you've screwed up the
governor.

It could well be that when the rod broke it took out some part of the
internal governor with it; if that's the case then even if you faithfully
rebuilt exactly what you started with, you'd still be screwed.

I don't know the particulars of small engine governors, but in general
they have some way of measuring speed (either centrifugal or by wind
resistance), and when the speed is high they back off the throttle.
Whatever is in your engine, that's what you should be able to see.

A factory manual on the thing would probably be a huge help, and may be
available on the Internet. *I'd start by matching what I have with what
the drawing says I should have, part by part. *If that didn't bear fruit,
I'd call an acquaintance of mine who does small engine work when he's
bored or feeling generous, and see if he'd look at it.

--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Softwarehttp://www.wescottdesign.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here is the manual. http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec..._24_690_07.pdf

I looked at the plastic gear before assemply and it looked intact. Is
there a way to tell if it is internal or external or even the govener
at all without taking it apart?

I did that once, the governor was not re-assembled correctly.
Look on page 82:

"3. Move governor lever toward carburetor as far as it will go (wide-open
throttle) and hold in position.
4. Insert a nail into hole on cross shaft and rotate shaft counterclockwise
as far as it will turn, then torque nut to 6.8 N·m (60 in. lb.)."

On 5/4/2012 1:48 PM, stryped wrote:
....

Here is the manual. http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec..._24_690_07.pdf

I looked at the plastic gear before assemply and it looked intact. Is
there a way to tell if it is internal or external or even the govener
at all without taking it apart?

Nicely done manual...

Did you note the reassembly to rotate the governor cross shaft and
ensure it stayed in position while setting camshaft position? I'd guess
that's one place things could have gone south.

As for outside/inside, doublecheck the linkage adjustments and spring
locations -- as noted in my earlier note, just a small boo-boo there can
have major ramifications.

I have a sinking feeling you're tearing this puppy down again...

--

On May 4, 2:21*pm, dpb wrote:
On 5/4/2012 1:48 PM, stryped wrote:
...

Here is the manual.http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec..._24_690_07.pdf

I looked at the plastic gear before assemply and it looked intact. Is
there a way to tell if it is internal or external or even the govener
at all without taking it apart?

Nicely done manual...

Did you note the reassembly to rotate the governor cross shaft and
ensure it stayed in position while setting camshaft position? *I'd guess
that's one place things could have gone south.

As for outside/inside, doublecheck the linkage adjustments and spring
locations -- as noted in my earlier note, just a small boo-boo there can
have major ramifications.

I have a sinking feeling you're tearing this puppy down again...

--

Yes, I think it basically said to rotate the shaft so it was touching
the cylinder. I believe I did that.

Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?

By the way, I adjusted the govener to no avail. However, looking in
that manual I found conflicting info on adjusting it. To make a long
story short one section said to turn the screw clockwise and another
counterclockwise if I am reading it correctly. I turned it
counterclockwise but it seemed as far as it would go and did not turn.

On 5/4/2012 3:10 PM, stryped wrote:
On May 4, 2:21 pm, wrote:
....

Did you note the reassembly to rotate the governor cross shaft and
ensure it stayed in position while setting camshaft position? I'd guess
that's one place things could have gone south.

....

Yes, I think it basically said to rotate the shaft so it was touching
the cylinder. I believe I did that.

As David notes in his response pointing out the same area, did you
physically restrain it to be in that position going forward to ensure it
stayed there as instructed?

Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?
....

If it's wrong, I expect it will have essentially no effect externally.

If verified the linkage is correct and aren't physically forcing the
throttle in full-open position, I think the conclusion almost has to be
the internal positioning is wrong.

It might not run well w/ a small misadjustment, but the full-bore, flat
out rev'ved up means the governor ain't...again assuming the throttle
isn't being held open.

Does it rev back if you manually close throttle or can you not get the
throttle to close?

--

stryped wrote:
....
Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?
....

What you have here is that the engine is _not_ idling. Idling is when
the throttle butterfly is closed. Your engine is running with it wide open.

The basic speed mechanism is that the speed control lever pulls on a
spring which is attached to the carb throttle. More spring tension at
higher settings. The governor pulls back on the throttle. The engine
runs at the balance point of these 2 forces (governor & spring). (I
know dpb said it was the other way around, but I've never seen one that
worked that way.)

In your case, the governor is not pulling back and the spring is pulling
the throttle wide open. Disconnecting the governor will not tell you
anything.

Bob

On May 4, 11:23*am, stryped wrote:
I dont know where to turn. I have a kohler 20 horse CV 624 motor from
a lawn mower. The rod broke and I replaced it. It now startes but revs
so high immediately I have to shut it down because I am afraid it will
blow up. I adjust the idle screw and it did fine for a minute then
went bacl to the high idle. I adjusted the govenor per the manual and
this did not help.

Any advice? I tried to not disturn the internal govenor when I tool
the old rod out. It looked like a plastic gear of some sort. To be
honest,k I dont 100% understand how the govenor works at least the
internal portion.

The govenor and idleing worked fine before I replaced the broken rod.

I am at a loss. I appreciate any help!

The mechanical governor looks similar to the one on my Honda mower.
The plunger on the plastic geared governor pushes on an internal lever
inside the engine. That lever turns a shaft that comes out of the
engine and rotates the external governor lever arm on the outside of
the engine. The internal governor lever arm is fixed to the shaft,
but the external one clamps on and can be rotated. It’s important
that it’s clamped in the right position or the internal governor lever
won’t make contact with the plunger. You might have to reset and re-
clamp the external governor lever arm so that the internal lever makes
contact with the plunger. Otherwise the governor won’t do its job.

Next time, etch or scratch a line on the shaft and the external lever
so that you’ll know the right position upon reassembling the engine.
I’ve also found that it sometimes helps to take pictures of carburetor
linkages with my digital camera before taking apart unfamiliar things.

stryped wrote:



I looked at the plastic gear before assemply and it looked intact. Is
there a way to tell if it is internal or external or even the govener
at all without taking it apart?
That paddle wheel thing is probably the oil splasher,
and not part of the governor. (Although I have seen
engines that incorporated that into the governor mechanism.
A typical governor can be either air-operated off the
flywheel fan, or a form of the ancient flyball governor,
ie. a centrifugal weight often driven off the camshaft.

Jon

stryped wrote:


Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?
Sure. First thing is to take over complete control of the carb
throttle, and check that this works OK. If the throttle behaves
normally, then you can even use that to rev the engine and observe
the governor operating against a spring when it senses increasing
RPM.

Jon

On May 4, 4:14*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
stryped wrote:
Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?

Sure. *First thing is to take over complete control of the carb
throttle, and check that this works OK. *If the throttle behaves
normally, then you can even use that to rev the engine and observe
the governor operating against a spring when it senses increasing
RPM.

Jon

It starts reving immediate lfter started and is hard to start and then
run in front of the motor to watch the carb.

When I put the oil pan back on I had the engine laying down where the
oil pan was on top. I ensured the internal goener lever was touching
the cylinder then put the oil pan down before torquing the bolts.
However, I did not restrain anything.

What causes the internal governer arm to move? i know that plastic
govener gear attached to the camshaft, but not sure what actually
moves the arm?

On 5/4/2012 3:42 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
....

The basic speed mechanism is that the speed control lever pulls on a
spring which is attached to the carb throttle. More spring tension at
higher settings. The governor pulls back on the throttle. The engine
runs at the balance point of these 2 forces (governor & spring). (I know
dpb said it was the other way around, but I've never seen one that
worked that way.)
....

Well, my bad...sorry, and thanks for the clarification.

I just was thinking about that I had gotten the spring on the wrong side
of the fulcrum and it was pulling the throttle full open having done so.

--

stryped wrote:
I dont know where to turn. I have a kohler 20 horse CV 624 motor from
a lawn mower. The rod broke and I replaced it. It now startes but revs
so high immediately I have to shut it down because I am afraid it will
blow up. I adjust the idle screw and it did fine for a minute then
went bacl to the high idle. I adjusted the govenor per the manual and
this did not help.

Any advice? I tried to not disturn the internal govenor when I tool
the old rod out. It looked like a plastic gear of some sort. To be
honest,k I dont 100% understand how the govenor works at least the
internal portion.

The govenor and idleing worked fine before I replaced the broken rod.

I am at a loss. I appreciate any help!

Sounds like the fork on the governor gear has come loose and it's not
working now. You will have to pull it back apart and reset it.

Yes it is a plastic gear.

The plastic gear turns a small shaft with weights on it. The weights in
turn move a collar which the fork rides on and that turns the shaft that
comes out of the engine.


--
Steve W.

stryped wrote:
On May 4, 2:21 pm, dpb wrote:
On 5/4/2012 1:48 PM, stryped wrote:
...

Here is the manual.http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinec..._24_690_07.pdf
I looked at the plastic gear before assemply and it looked intact. Is
there a way to tell if it is internal or external or even the govener
at all without taking it apart?
Nicely done manual...

Did you note the reassembly to rotate the governor cross shaft and
ensure it stayed in position while setting camshaft position? I'd guess
that's one place things could have gone south.

As for outside/inside, doublecheck the linkage adjustments and spring
locations -- as noted in my earlier note, just a small boo-boo there can
have major ramifications.

I have a sinking feeling you're tearing this puppy down again...

--

Yes, I think it basically said to rotate the shaft so it was touching
the cylinder. I believe I did that.

Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?

Actually disconnecting it will cause it to rev out of control. The
governor is what stops it from revving up.


By the way, I adjusted the govener to no avail. However, looking in
that manual I found conflicting info on adjusting it. To make a long
story short one section said to turn the screw clockwise and another
counterclockwise if I am reading it correctly. I turned it
counterclockwise but it seemed as far as it would go and did not turn.


--
Steve W.

"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 5/4/2012 3:42 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...

The basic speed mechanism is that the speed
control lever pulls on a
spring which is attached to the carb throttle.
More spring tension at
higher settings. The governor pulls back on the
throttle. The engine
runs at the balance point of these 2 forces
(governor & spring). (I know
dpb said it was the other way around, but I've
never seen one that
worked that way.)
...

Well, my bad...sorry, and thanks for the
clarification.

I just was thinking about that I had gotten the
spring on the wrong side of the fulcrum and it
was pulling the throttle full open having done
so.

--

Thanks for posting a humble, and rare, admission
of a ****up! ;)}
Kudos to you.....!!!
phil k.

On Fri, 4 May 2012 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On May 4, 4:14*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
stryped wrote:
Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?

Sure. *First thing is to take over complete control of the carb
throttle, and check that this works OK. *If the throttle behaves
normally, then you can even use that to rev the engine and observe
the governor operating against a spring when it senses increasing
RPM.

Jon

It starts reving immediate lfter started and is hard to start and then
run in front of the motor to watch the carb.

When I put the oil pan back on I had the engine laying down where the
oil pan was on top. I ensured the internal goener lever was touching
the cylinder then put the oil pan down before torquing the bolts.
However, I did not restrain anything.

What causes the internal governer arm to move? i know that plastic
govener gear attached to the camshaft, but not sure what actually
moves the arm?
What Jon is saying is to disconnect the governer from the carb so that
only you can control the throttle position. Then as you move the
throttle you can observe the governer arm, which is disconnected from
the carb, and see if it moves in the right direction, or indeed if it
moves at all. Be sure that the throttle is set for low speed operation
before trying to start the engine. This may mean the the butterfly
must be disconnected from both the throttle control and the governer.
Eric

On May 5, 9:49*am, wrote:
On Fri, 4 May 2012 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:





On May 4, 4:14*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
stryped wrote:
Will disconnecting the govenor on the outside entirely cure the high
idle and if so I can pretty much conclude that the govenor is the
cause?

Sure. *First thing is to take over complete control of the carb
throttle, and check that this works OK. *If the throttle behaves
normally, then you can even use that to rev the engine and observe
the governor operating against a spring when it senses increasing
RPM.

Jon

It starts reving immediate lfter started and is hard to start and then
run in front of the motor to watch the carb.

When I put the oil pan back on I had the engine laying down where the
oil pan was on top. I ensured the internal goener lever was touching
the cylinder then put the oil pan down before torquing the bolts.
However, I did not restrain anything.

What causes the internal governer arm to move? i know that plastic
govener gear attached to the camshaft, but not sure what actually
moves the arm?

What Jon is saying is to disconnect the governer from the carb so that
only you can control the throttle position. Then as you move the
throttle you can observe the governer arm, which is disconnected from
the carb, and see if it moves in the right direction, or indeed if it
moves at all. Be sure that the throttle is set for low speed operation
before trying to start the engine. This may mean the the butterfly
must be disconnected from both the throttle control and the governer.
Eric

Well. today I could manually rin the thing by hand. The problem is
when I rev the engine and then immediately pull the throttle into a
lower position, the throotle does not always come back to the low
speed position. I am assuming this means it is the govenor? If so I
guess I have to take it back apart. However, how do I ensure the
internal fork is making the correct contact with the gear?

I may be fightenign a losing battle. It ran but now it is smoking.
Something it did not do before. I have no idea why. COuld it be
becasue I re used the same pistion rings when I replaced the rod?

On 5/5/2012 10:34 PM, stryped wrote:
....

... However, how do I ensure the
internal fork is making the correct contact with the gear?

The manual had a procedure outlined, didn't it?

I may be fightenign a losing battle. It ran but now it is smoking.
Something it did not do before. I have no idea why. COuld it be
becasue I re used the same pistion rings when I replaced the rod?

Depends on whether it did other damage to score cylinder or how badly
worn it was. Did you ensure the rings were installed so the splits all
were distributed around the radius rather than aligned?

--

On May 5, 11:26*pm, dpb wrote:
On 5/5/2012 10:34 PM, stryped wrote:
...

... However, how do I ensure the
internal fork is making the correct contact with the gear?

The manual had a procedure outlined, didn't it?

I may be fightenign a losing battle. It ran but now it is smoking.
Something it did not do before. I have no idea why. COuld it be
becasue I re used the same pistion rings when I replaced the rod?

Depends on whether it did other damage to score cylinder or how badly
worn it was. *Did you ensure the rings were installed so the splits all
were distributed around the radius rather than aligned?

--

Yes. The cylinder was actually in spec of a new bore. I rotated the
rings about 120 degrees apart.

One thing I did notice was the cylinder I had to take off the head on
had oil leaking down it. The cover was on so I could not see exactly
where it was coming from. Could this be from the head gasket?