On Feb 8, 1:57*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
The jewelry
sale was another thing that caught my eye. (Store owner couldn't sell
pieces at $5, left instructions for the clerk to run 'em at 2/5 while
she left for the weekend/ vacation, clerk mistook that for $25 and
sold them all that weekend at the increased price, IIRC.)

I have seen this in action. An acquaintance made fishing rods. He
originally priced the fly rods less than the sal****er rods. Less
material, less labor. Did not sell well. Raised the price so they
were a bit more than the Sage fly rods and they sold very well.

Dan

On Feb 8, 10:58*am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:

*According to the evalution
for taxes the land has gone down in value by 87k$ from 2010 to 2011.
That time period is all on OBama's watch.

Bush caused 9/11

Happened on his watch....
-- *

So you are saying that Bush was responsible for what the terrorists
did in the year 2001 and that affected the real estate market in 2011?

I know some people want to blame everything on Bush, but ...........

Dan

Steve Ackman wrote:
, on Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:53:29 -0800,
Winston, wrote:

Hey! Didn't you forward *my* copy to Ed yet Larry?
Steve, please forward it to Ed when you are finished?

I have the e-version. Didn't even realize there
was a hard-copy circulating.

DoH! Sorry.

--Winston

On Feb 8, 8:37*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

As to stimulus money, I know of no where in the Constitution
that the Fed has been given the power to regulate or
stimulate the economy. Certainly *not by taxing working
people, and then redistributing the money to other people.
The working people who actually do useful work *have been
damaged quite a lot by that reckless spending.

Where do you think tax money goes?

The government collects money from you in the form of taxes and fees.
The government then spends that money. Perhaps they spend some of it
at your place of business, perhaps some of it goes directly to you
through some government program or another, but the rest goes to
someone else. That is redisttribution of money. That is what
governments do.

Might be what the govt does now, but it's not what the
founding fathers designed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Feb 8, 8:37 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

As to stimulus money, I know of no where in the
Constitution
that the Fed has been given the power to regulate or
stimulate the economy. Certainly not by taxing working
people, and then redistributing the money to other people.
The working people who actually do useful work have been
damaged quite a lot by that reckless spending.

Where do you think tax money goes?

The government collects money from you in the form of taxes
and fees.
The government then spends that money. Perhaps they spend
some of it
at your place of business, perhaps some of it goes directly
to you
through some government program or another, but the rest
goes to
someone else. That is redisttribution of money. That is what
governments do.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 11:53:29 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 08:42:48 -0700, Steve Ackman
wrote:

, on Tue, 08 Feb 2011
05:17:55 -0800, Larry Jaques, wrote:

On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:18:21 -0600, Ignoramus31358
wrote:

I'm sorry. I forgot that you were a True Believer of The Chosen One.

Larry, you're the one who first mentioned ch. 4 in
Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion. (Thanks for
that, btw -- took me a while to get around to it, but
I'm finally on the last chapter)

Jewelcome. Ed Huntress, I believe, turned me on to that several years
ago. I was happy to pass it on.

Hey! Didn't you forward *my* copy to Ed yet Larry?

I bought my copy from an eBay vendor, guajalote.


Steve, please forward it to Ed when you are finished?

--Winston -- Now calculating 'overdue fine'...

Y'know, I truly thought he'd -given- that book to me. What a complete
and utter cluster**** THAT was...

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:52:44 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Feb 8, 8:37*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

As to stimulus money, I know of no where in the Constitution
that the Fed has been given the power to regulate or
stimulate the economy. Certainly *not by taxing working
people, and then redistributing the money to other people.
The working people who actually do useful work *have been
damaged quite a lot by that reckless spending.

Where do you think tax money goes?

The government collects money from you in the form of taxes and fees.
The government then spends that money. Perhaps they spend some of it
at your place of business, perhaps some of it goes directly to you
through some government program or another, but the rest goes to
someone else. That is redisttribution of money. That is what
governments do.
=============
Its worse than you think. Below is an email I sent to my
Representative and Senators in Congress.

----- start of email -----
Yet another reason to vote NO on increasing the National
Debt Limit. Indeed, legislation to increase the debt limit
should not even be considered or allowed on the floor of
either house, where it just might pass.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...tabenow_t.html
snip
The Charging America Forward Act, first proposed last
summer, would provide customers with a $7,500 rebate for
plug-in electric vehicles, offer businesses tax credits for
purchasing plug-in hybrid trucks, expand a tax credit for
the installation of charging stations and renew a
public-private partnership to boost advanced battery
production.

Vice President Joe Biden last month suggested rebates could
replace tax credits as part of the Obama administration's
three-part plan to put 1 million electric vehicles on the
road by 2015, and Stabenow says her legislation will benefit
Michigan.
snip

Why should I or any other taxpayer give $7,500 to anyone to
buy an electric car? Even worse, why should the government
of the United States BORROW $7,500 to give to anyone to buy
an electric car. It should be noted that the actual cost to
the Treasury/Taxpayers would be considerably more than
$7,500 because of the overhead expenses.

The only way to stop this profligate and reckless spending,
short of total economic collapse, is to refuse to raise the
debt limit, with or without the Toomey payment priority
legislation.

While some of the motives behind this proposed subsidy, such
as a reduction in the need to import oil, are commendable
there appears to be a much simpler and cheaper alternatives.

One alternative is for Congress to override all NHTSA/DOT
and EPA regulations and preempt all state regulations, e.g.
California, that prevent the importation and sale of the
small and highly fuel efficient diesel cars that meet the
more stringent EEC standards. As indicated in prior emails,
these overrides to be effective must be accompanied with
severe civil and criminal penalties, including prison time,
for evasion, obstruction, impediment, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...sion_standards
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l28186_en.htm

The MPG numbers in the following articles are miles per
*IMPERIAL* gallon and must be converted to US MPG. See
http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html and/or
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fu...ter-d_850.html

FWIW
317 MPG Imperial = 317 * 0.833 = 264 MPG US
85.6 MPG Imp = 71.3 MPG US
80.7 MPG Imp = 67.2 MPG US


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...L1-review.html
snip
That's VW's 21st-century streamliner, the XL1, honed not for
speed but to achieve an astonishing 313mpg.
snip

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...13mpg-car.html

These are production cars are available at dealers showrooms
in the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...s-on-sale.html

----- end of email -----

Feel free to use all, part or none if you want to write your
Congressmen.

To identify your Senators goto http://senate.gov/ To
identify your representative goto http://house.gov/. Most
members of congress now have web mail which you can access
through the above sites. Be sure and bookmark.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 13:01:16 -0700, Steve Ackman
wrote:

I GOT A PHONE CALL ONE DAY FROM A FRIEND WHO HAD RECENTLY opened an Indian
jewelry store in Arizona... the turquoise pieces were of good quality for
the prices she was asking; yet they had not sold. My friend had attempted a
couple of standard sales tricks to get them moving. She tried calling
attention to them by shifting their location to a more central display
area; no luck. She even told her sales staff to "push" the items hard,
again without success.
Finally, the night before leaving on an out-of-town buying trip, she
scribbled an exasperated note to her head saleswoman, "Everything in this
display case, price x 1/2" hoping just to be rid of the offending pieces
even if at a loss. When she returned a few days later, she was not
surprised to find that every article had been sold. She was shocked,
though, to discover that, because the employee had read the "1/2" in her
scrawled message as a "2," the entire allotment had sold out at twice the
original price!

OK. I should reread that book soonest...
And re-reread _Unintended Consequences_.


Remember, once the prophesied occurences don't, the
faithful become even more rabidly faithful.

I didn't catch the Obama interview on O'Reilly last Saturday, did you?

Not at the time, but it's available.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3SX0lRWjEk

I'll definitely have to watch the squirming, though I'm sure it was an
entirely scripted scene.

Yeah, O'R seemed to be O's bestest friend.

'til the end. bseg

Speaking of friends, this rancher was one, eh?

--snip-- pics omitted for Usenet

DEA officer stops at a ranch in Texas, and talks with an old rancher.
He tells the rancher, "I need to inspect your ranch for illegally
grown drugs." The rancher says, "Okay , but don't go in that field
over there," as he points out the location.

The DEA officer verbally explodes saying, " Mister, I have the
authority of the Federal Government with me." Reaching into his rear
pants pocket, he removes his badge and proudly displays it to the
rancher. "See this badge? This badge means I am allowed to go
wherever I wish... On any land. No questions asked or answers given.
Have I made myself clear? Do you understand? "

The rancher nods politely, apologizes, and goes about his chores.

A short time later, the old rancher hears loud screams and sees the
DEA officer running for his life chased by the rancher's big Santa
Gertrudis bull.

With every step the bull is gaining ground on the officer, and it
seems likely that he'll get gored before he reaches safety. The
officer is clearly terrified. The rancher throws down his tools, runs
to the fence and yells at the top of his lungs

"Your badge. Show him your BADGE!"

--snip--

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Y'know, I truly thought he'd -given- that book to me. What a complete
and utter cluster**** THAT was...

I got you two switched.
I sent the book to Ed and he forwarded it to you.
Ah. Senior moment.

Hardly matters.
Keep it.

The Library is Closed.

--Winston

On Feb 8, 9:19*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Might be what the govt does now, but it's not what the
founding fathers designed.

Article 1, Section 2.
Article 1, Section 8.
Article 1, Section 9.

wrote in message
...
On Feb 8, 10:58 am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:

According to the evalution
for taxes the land has gone down in value by 87k$ from 2010 to 2011.
That time period is all on OBama's watch.

Bush caused 9/11

Happened on his watch....

So you are saying that Bush was responsible for what the terrorists
did in the year 2001 and that affected the real estate market in 2011?

I know some people want to blame everything on Bush, but ...........

What I'm saying is that your claiming that Obama's presidency is somehow
resonsible for the decline in your property values has pretty much the
validity as does someone claiming that Bush is to blame for the terrorist
acts of 9/11

I know some people want to blame everything on Bush, but ...........

Indeed.

And...SOME people want to blame everything on Obama

...but..

--pray tell us what his administration woulda coulda shoulda done
differently in order prop up YOUR ****ing grotesquely inflated property
valuation ?

Housing prices went through the roof....for nearly 2 decades...

Did you REALLY expect that trend to continue indefinately ?

Lotsa folks made a killing...

Too bad that you waited so long--probly should have sold out while the
getting was still good--but good luck blaming Obama for your lack of market
timing on this one....especially since IIRC you almost always eventually
come out as saying that government should basically let the market decide

--

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Might be what the govt does now, but it's not what the
founding fathers designed.


You are so ****ing full of ****..

Judging from your ramblings I have to deduce that in all probability you
have never even read the constitution--let alone the bill of rights ( which
were drafted just afterwards because tha founding fathers relaized withing
the very first congress that there were some very serious problems as
written.

#1 the constitution leaves almost EVERYTHING up to the legislative branches.

Basically the constitution places VERY VERY FEW limits on what is
specifically and leaves Congress wide open to enact laws as it sees fit.


Read article #1 you ****ing dumb ass.

--

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Highly opinionated people like you, who know everything

**** off asshole

I just know that since nearly 38% of Americans pay zero federal taxes that
you are probably one of them--since after reading your numerous postings
over the many years that in all probability you belong in that category.

about people you've never met. Seldom listen to reason, in

I've met you. I've listened enough.


any case. I think the pure absurdity of what you've written
is really clear, from here. Any person in the USA who buys
and sells, earns and spends money, pays taxes. The taxes are

You didnt pay a dime towards federal stimulus funding, because you don't
earn enough.

In all likelyhood, you had quite a bit of earnings that you failed to
report.

And I HATE tax dodgers--especially those who continually bitch about how
"their" Imaginary tax dollars were spent.

built into the price of what a person purchases. You are so
myopic.

If you filed at all, then it was in order to get the earned income credit
which more than offsets your 4% New York State sales tax

As to stimulus money, I know of no where in the Constitution
that the Fed has been given the power to regulate or
stimulate the economy. Certainly not by taxing working

You dumb **** the constitution only spells out a very small handful of areas
where congress is specifically restricted. ( Obviously the founding were
seriously lacking in chrystal balls that day )...but I digress..

The point being, congress ultimately is basically free to enact any law as
it sees fit.

And should a challenge come up that claims congress has overstepped and the
supreme court makes a decision ?

Tough ****.

The reality is congress STILL trumps in the end.

people, and then redistributing the money to other people.
The working people who actually do useful work have been
damaged quite a lot by that reckless spending.


Sorry pal but one of the few very basic functions of any sucessful
government indeed lies in controlling commerce.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Put that in your Jesus Pipe and smoke it

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:rKKdnRU7U8vUqc_QnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@scnresearch. com...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Might be what the govt does now, but it's not what the
founding fathers designed.


You are so ****ing full of ****..

Judging from your ramblings I have to deduce that in all probability you
have never even read the constitution--let alone the bill of rights (
which were drafted just afterwards because tha founding fathers relaized
withing the very first congress that there were some very serious problems
as written.

#1 the constitution leaves almost EVERYTHING up to the legislative
branches.

Basically the constitution places VERY VERY FEW limits on what is
specifically

PROHIBITED


and leaves Congress wide open to enact laws as it sees fit.


Read article #1 you ****ing dumb ass.

--

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 13:13:02 -0600, Ignoramus31358
wrote:

On 2011-02-07, Steve W. wrote:


Report Card on Obama's First Two Years
By K.E. Campbell
Two years ago today, Barack Obama was inaugurated as president of the
United States. Are you better off today than you were two years ago?

Numbers don't lie, and here are the data on the impact he has had on the
lives of Americans:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/..._first_tw.html


The "hope and change" is working great for me.

I am far better off now than I was two year ago.

What, specifically, has Obama done that has made you better off?


My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.


He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account


--

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 20:34:46 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Y'know, I truly thought he'd -given- that book to me. What a complete
and utter cluster**** THAT was...

I got you two switched.
I sent the book to Ed and he forwarded it to you.
Ah. Senior moment.

The book cluster**** I was referring to was _Ricochet_.
He had me forward it to Wes.

I originally borrowed _Influence_ from the local library but it (the
library) wasn't there the next time I wanted to consult it (the book),
so I bought my own copy a few years ago. See below.


Hardly matters.
Keep it.

The Library is Closed.

Right. But I have a receipt from eBay dated 9/30/2008 which says my
copy was not your copy. It matters to me, damnit.

Influence-The Psychology 0f Persuasion by r.b. Cialdini
Sale price: $3.00
Estimated delivery: Varies (USPS delivers within 2-9 days after
seller ships item)
Shipping & Handling:
US Postal Service Media Mail $3.50
Seller:
al_roadwalker [contact seller]
Seller Information:
maurice alexander
clayton, WI 5400

I don't "forget" to return loaned books and I don't want you (or the
others here) to think I do. Too bad all this didn't happen via email.

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

I don't "forget" to return loaned books and I don't want you (or the
others here) to think I do. Too bad all this didn't happen via email.


Everybody, My Bad.

I sent out 'Influence' and agreed that it would circulate
among Ed and Larry and whoever else thought it valuable.

Somewhere it disappeared. I have no idea where.

--Winston

On Feb 9, 1:17*am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:



--pray tell us what his administration woulda coulda shoulda done
differently in order prop up YOUR ****ing grotesquely inflated property
valuation ?

Housing prices went through the roof....for nearly 2 decades...

Did you REALLY expect that trend to continue indefinately ?

Lotsa folks made a killing...

Too bad that you waited so long--probly should have sold out while the
getting was still good--but good luck blaming Obama for your lack of market
timing on this one....especially since IIRC you almost always eventually
come out as saying that government should basically let the market decide

-- *

You assume that my land is "****ing grotesquely inflated ". And you
are wrong. And I do not expect housing to go keep going up with no
down side fluctuations. I did expect prices to stabilize before
now.

But................ Obama did concentrate on getting the Health Care
bill passed, instead of concentrating on the economy. This is not the
brightest thing to do in a recession. The Health Care bill has
discouraged businesses from hiring. It has made automating to reduce
the number of employees more attractive. It has made having employees
work overtime more attractive than hiring more people.

Obama has tried increasing government spending to combat the
recession. And it has not worked very well. In contrast the Germans
have not increased government spending , and that has worked well for
them.

Obama did a lot of things such as giving the States money, which
reduced the impact of the recession, but they also increased the
length of the recession. So it really did not help. The States in
general took the money and used it to continue business as usual
instead of changing. So it postponed changes in the States budgets by
a year, but now the changes are happening anyway.

The big banks have been propped up. So there has been little Change
in the banking system.

I do not blame Obama for everything, but he has been in office two
years. He should have made more progress than he has. He has lost
the confidence of the people. The last election shows that. And a
loss of confidence makes people hesitate to spend and invest.
In short he has not provided Change and many people that are
unemployed have lost Hope.

Dan

On 2011-02-09, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Feb 8, 10:58 am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:

According to the evalution
for taxes the land has gone down in value by 87k$ from 2010 to 2011.
That time period is all on OBama's watch.

Bush caused 9/11

Happened on his watch....

So you are saying that Bush was responsible for what the terrorists
did in the year 2001 and that affected the real estate market in 2011?

I know some people want to blame everything on Bush, but ...........

What I'm saying is that your claiming that Obama's presidency is somehow
resonsible for the decline in your property values has pretty much the
validity as does someone claiming that Bush is to blame for the terrorist
acts of 9/11

The problem is not that prices right now are too low (outside of a
couple of crazy areas, like FL). The problem is that they were too
expensive before. So, prices came down back to being reasonable.

I much prefer lower housing prices to high prices, personally.

The obsession with "property values" is completely misguided. In the
long run, housing is a commmodity like gasoline and eggs. We do not
celebrate when "egg values go up", do we?

i

On 2011-02-09, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.


He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account



Very sad. Many people fear a catastrophe risk like this, for good
reasons.

In fact, if people knew that they can have affordable medical
coverage, more of them would become entrepreneurs instead of being
stuck in jobs just because of medical coverage.

i

On Feb 9, 8:51*am, jim "sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:


So what is wrong with just taxing oil?
Apply a hefty tax on oil and
all the stupidity is terminated


The big problem is that it would be pretty much impossible to tax oil
equally in every nation. If the U.S. taxes oil, it give a huge
advantage to countries that do not.

But taxing oil is not really necessary. Oil is becoming harder to
find and more expensive to produce. Therefore the price is going up,
which is pretty much the same as applying a tax. Alternate energy
sources will become economical as oil increases in price. So we
should have a relatively smooth transition from oil to other sources
of energy.

Dan

1) You don't like the power of the Fed to move money around
2) you do like the power of the Fed to override states

Me, I think the Fed is way past it's constitutional powers.
I'd like to see the powers delegated back to the states,
where they belong.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"F. George McDuffee"
wrote in message
...

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...tabenow_t.html
snip
The Charging America Forward Act, first proposed last
summer, would provide customers with a $7,500 rebate for
plug-in electric vehicles, offer businesses tax credits for
purchasing plug-in hybrid trucks, expand a tax credit for
the installation of charging stations and renew a
public-private partnership to boost advanced battery
production.

Vice President Joe Biden last month suggested rebates could
replace tax credits as part of the Obama administration's
three-part plan to put 1 million electric vehicles on the
road by 2015, and Stabenow says her legislation will benefit
Michigan.
snip

Why should I or any other taxpayer give $7,500 to anyone to
buy an electric car? Even worse, why should the government
of the United States BORROW $7,500 to give to anyone to buy
an electric car. It should be noted that the actual cost to
the Treasury/Taxpayers would be considerably more than
$7,500 because of the overhead expenses.

The only way to stop this profligate and reckless spending,
short of total economic collapse, is to refuse to raise the
debt limit, with or without the Toomey payment priority
legislation.

While some of the motives behind this proposed subsidy, such
as a reduction in the need to import oil, are commendable
there appears to be a much simpler and cheaper alternatives.

One alternative is for Congress to override all NHTSA/DOT
and EPA regulations and preempt all state regulations, e.g.
California, that prevent the importation and sale of the
small and highly fuel efficient diesel cars that meet the
more stringent EEC standards. As indicated in prior emails,
these overrides to be effective must be accompanied with
severe civil and criminal penalties, including prison time,
for evasion, obstruction, impediment, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...sion_standards
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php
http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l28186_en.htm

The MPG numbers in the following articles are miles per
*IMPERIAL* gallon and must be converted to US MPG. See
http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html and/or
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fu...ter-d_850.html

FWIW
317 MPG Imperial = 317 * 0.833 = 264 MPG US
85.6 MPG Imp = 71.3 MPG US
80.7 MPG Imp = 67.2 MPG US


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...L1-review.html
snip
That's VW's 21st-century streamliner, the XL1, honed not for
speed but to achieve an astonishing 313mpg.
snip

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...13mpg-car.html

These are production cars are available at dealers showrooms
in the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...s-on-sale.html

----- end of email -----

Feel free to use all, part or none if you want to write your
Congressmen.

To identify your Senators goto http://senate.gov/ To
identify your representative goto http://house.gov/. Most
members of congress now have web mail which you can access
through the above sites. Be sure and bookmark.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 06:01:39 -0800, Winston
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

I don't "forget" to return loaned books and I don't want you (or the
others here) to think I do. Too bad all this didn't happen via email.


Everybody, My Bad.

I sent out 'Influence' and agreed that it would circulate
among Ed and Larry and whoever else thought it valuable.

Somewhere it disappeared. I have no idea where.

Thanks. I never requested/received it because I found it at the
library. And I've always figured that for a buck more than the
shipping cost, I can buy it from an Amazon or eBay seller and have the
book to keep, so I almost never borrow books.

--
Education should provide the tools for a widening and deepening
of life, for increased appreciation of all one sees or experiences.
It should equip a person to live life well, to understand what is
happening around him, for to live life well one must live life with
awareness. -- Louis L'Amour

On Feb 9, 1:54*am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

...

Highly opinionated people like you, who know everything

**** off asshole

I just know that since nearly 38% of Americans pay zero federal taxes that
you are probably one of them--since after reading your numerous postings
over the many years that in all probability you belong in that category.

about people you've never met. Seldom listen to reason, in

I've met you. I've listened enough.

any case. I think the pure absurdity of what you've written
is really clear, from here. Any person in the USA who buys
and sells, earns and spends money, pays taxes. The taxes are

You didnt pay a dime towards federal stimulus funding, because you don't
earn enough.

In all likelyhood, you had quite a bit of earnings that you failed to
report.

And I HATE tax dodgers--especially those who continually bitch about how
"their" Imaginary tax dollars *were spent.

built into the price of what a person purchases. You are so
myopic.

If you filed at all, then it was in order to get the earned income credit
which more than offsets your 4% New York State sales tax



As to stimulus money, I know of no where in the Constitution
that the Fed has been given the power to regulate or
stimulate the economy. Certainly *not by taxing working

You dumb **** the constitution only spells out a very small handful of areas
where congress is specifically restricted. ( Obviously the founding were
seriously lacking in chrystal balls that day )...but I digress..

The point being, congress ultimately is basically free to enact any law as
it sees fit.

And should a challenge come up that claims congress has overstepped and the
supreme court makes a decision ?

Tough ****.

The reality is congress STILL trumps in the end.


Actually Congress is limited to what the Constitution says is within
Federal powers. Everything else is designated as belonging to the
States and the People.

And Congress does not trump in the end. The last election shows that
the people still have the last word.

Dan

We'll see how long that lasts. I'm hopeful, but not really
encouraged.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Actually Congress is limited to what the Constitution says
is within
Federal powers. Everything else is designated as belonging
to the
States and the People.

And Congress does not trump in the end. The last election
shows that
the people still have the last word.

Dan

"Ignoramus25972" wrote in message
...
On 2011-02-09, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he
had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US
for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so
he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you
tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.


He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account



Very sad. Many people fear a catastrophe risk like this, for good
reasons.

In fact, if people knew that they can have affordable medical
coverage, more of them would become entrepreneurs instead of being
stuck in jobs just because of medical coverage.

i

I think, perhaps, but not necessarily, also that they would start savings
accounts, not buy that 196" PlasmaTron HiDef TV WITH surround sound, not buy
a new car every 18 months, eat out less, not have to wear those $60 jeans
and $300 cowboy boots, not pay $12 for a tube of lipstick, not pay $150 to
take the family out to dinner, and find other ways to set aside money for
the important things in life.

Some people lose it all through no fault of their own, and went down with an
admirable fight. Others live from paycheck to credit card, and wail when
the bill comes in the mail.

We do need some reforms in the insurance situation. Those reforms do not
include providing better health care for criminals than our own citizens,
and then putting the burden of payment on the backs of people who do
actually work. Your son and granddaughter are fighting a valiant fight.
Too bad they're not Mexican citizens who have been in the us for nine years
but can't speak English yet. Their hospital care would be a walk-through.

Steve

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 07:51:11 -0600, jim
"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:

"F. George McDuffee" wrote:

=============
Its worse than you think. Below is an email I sent to my
Representative and Senators in Congress.

----- start of email -----
Yet another reason to vote NO on increasing the National
Debt Limit. Indeed, legislation to increase the debt limit
should not even be considered or allowed on the floor of
either house, where it just might pass.

Careful what you wish for..............

Americans have accumulated a massive amount of private debt
Private debt peaked at around 300% of GDP in 2008
That is much higher than the private debt peak in 1929
that led to 1930's depression
==========
Indeed, and it makes the debt situation that much worse.

Below is yet another email I sent to my Congressmen.

----- start of email -----
Reason #1,417 to "spike" any increase in the national debt
limit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/362107
snip
Los Angeles - Vice President Joe Biden Tuesday proposed that
the US government infuse $53 billion into a national
high-speed rail network.
snip

It is crystal clear that the only way to stop the
profligate, improvident, and unnecessary spending by the
Federal Government is to prevent it from borrowing more
money to do so. I AM THEREFORE URGING YOU TO PREVENT EVEN
THE CONSIDERATION OF ANY LEGISLATION TO INCREASE THE DEBT
LIMIT. While enactment of Senator Toomey's [R-Penn] or
similar proposals to make interest payments and bond
redemptions the first of the government's payment priorities
is highly desirable to put real meaning in the phrase "full
faith and credit," it is by no means a necessary condition.
http://toomey.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=330945

The government of the United States is rapidly approaching a
critical point in the debt to GDP ratio, beyond which
default and economic collapse becomes increasingly likely as
detailed in the Reinhart and Rogoff Study:
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/fil..._Different.pdf
And their follow up on the credit freeze or contraction of
2008,
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/fil..._Aftermath.pdf

A significant aggravating and exacerbating factor is the GDP
of the United States may have been inflated by the shift
from a predominately manufacturing economy to a primarily
service and consumption economy. This occurs because many
economic activities previously performed in the home such as
cooking, cleaning, child care, and do-it-yourself repairs,
and not included in the GDP calculations are now performed
externally in the market/cash economy and are counted. If
the GDP has indeed been significantly inflated, then the
ratio of debt to "real" GDP comparable to what was
calculated in the 50s and 60s may be much higher and much
closer to (or even past) the historical "tipping point."
The Congressional Reference Service should be able to supply
more exact data on a "deflated" or actual GDP.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
snip
"Similarly, if there is a long term shift from non-market
provision of services (for example cooking, cleaning, child
rearing, do-it yourself repairs) to market provision of
services, then this trend toward increased market provision
of services may mask a dramatic decrease in actual domestic
production, resulting in overly optimistic and inflated
reported GDP. ==This is particularly a problem for
economies which have shifted from production economies to
service economies.==" {emphasis added}
snip
----- end of email -----

As before feel free to use all, part or none of this email
if you want to write your own Congressmen.

To identify your Senators goto http://senate.gov/ To
identify your representative goto http://house.gov/. Most
members of congress now have web mail which you can access
through the above sites. Be sure and bookmark their web
mail sites.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 07:51:11 -0600, jim
"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net wrote:

"F. George McDuffee" wrote:

=============
Its worse than you think. Below is an email I sent to my
Representative and Senators in Congress.

----- start of email -----
Yet another reason to vote NO on increasing the National
Debt Limit. Indeed, legislation to increase the debt limit
should not even be considered or allowed on the floor of
either house, where it just might pass.

Careful what you wish for..............

Americans have accumulated a massive amount of private debt
Private debt peaked at around 300% of GDP in 2008
That is much higher than the private debt peak in 1929
that led to 1930's depression
==========
Indeed, and it makes the debt situation that much worse.





Look at what debt deflation did in the 1930's

http://cdn.debtdeflation.com/blogs/w...everagin15.png




If the government stops acquiring debt
the economy will go through massive deflation
The private sector is already delevaraging
if the government joins the party there will be massive deflation

The total debt has been shrinking for 2 years
If the government lets it deflate in free fall
your property, house, pension, stocks
all become worth much much less

Not like the 1930's but much worse than the 1930's because
there is a lot more private debt in 2008 than there was in 1929

Steve B wrote:

"Ignoramus25972" wrote in message
...
On 2011-02-09, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he
had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US
for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so
he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you
tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.


He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account



Very sad. Many people fear a catastrophe risk like this, for good
reasons.

In fact, if people knew that they can have affordable medical
coverage, more of them would become entrepreneurs instead of being
stuck in jobs just because of medical coverage.

i

I think, perhaps, but not necessarily, also that they would start savings
accounts, not buy that 196" PlasmaTron HiDef TV WITH surround sound, not buy
a new car every 18 months, eat out less, not have to wear those $60 jeans
and $300 cowboy boots, not pay $12 for a tube of lipstick, not pay $150 to
take the family out to dinner, and find other ways to set aside money for
the important things in life.

Some people lose it all through no fault of their own, and went down with an
admirable fight. Others live from paycheck to credit card, and wail when
the bill comes in the mail.

We do need some reforms in the insurance situation. Those reforms do not
include providing better health care for criminals than our own citizens,
and then putting the burden of payment on the backs of people who do
actually work. Your son and granddaughter are fighting a valiant fight.
Too bad they're not Mexican citizens who have been in the us for nine years
but can't speak English yet. Their hospital care would be a walk-through.


They should have created an 'Insurance of last resort' company to
help those refused insurance, and to help those who just don't have
enough income instead of trying to destroy our health care system. I've
heard several doctors talking about leaving the US to practice somewhere
else. A few retired, rather than put up with the coming changes.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

On Feb 9, 9:14*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
1) You don't like the power of the Fed to move money around
2) you do like the power of the Fed to override states

Me, I think the Fed is way past it's constitutional powers.
I'd like to see the powers delegated back to the states,
where they belong.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org

Christopher -

May I suggest that you put down your bible for 15 minutes and read the
Constitution. It's really a rather short document and, once you've
read it, you'll may stop making these ridiculous statements.

On Feb 9, 1:42*am, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

...





On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 13:13:02 -0600, Ignoramus31358
wrote:

On 2011-02-07, Steve W. wrote:

Report Card on Obama's First Two Years
By K.E. Campbell
Two years ago today, Barack Obama was inaugurated as president of the
United States. *Are you better off today than you were two years ago?

Numbers don't lie, and here are the data on the impact he has had on the
lives of Americans:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...bamas_first_tw....

The "hope and change" is working great for me.

I am far better off now than I was two year ago.

What, specifically, has Obama done that has made you better off?

My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden * No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.

He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account

--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your son's employment at the pavement company was a direct result of
the Obama injection of Government spending for economic
stimulus...something the Republicans were and are still against.

It is a well known fact that the infrastructure of the United States
is in dire need of repair.

I wish your son and his family the best in the future.

TMT

On Feb 9, 11:46*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"Ignoramus25972" wrote in message

...





On 2011-02-09, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he
had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US
for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so
he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden * No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you
tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.

He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account

Very sad. Many people fear a catastrophe risk like this, for good
reasons.

In fact, if people knew that they can have affordable medical
coverage, more of them would become entrepreneurs instead of being
stuck in jobs just because of medical coverage.

i

I think, perhaps, but not necessarily, also that they would start savings
accounts, not buy that 196" PlasmaTron HiDef TV WITH surround sound, not buy
a new car every 18 months, eat out less, not have to wear those $60 jeans
and $300 cowboy boots, not pay $12 for a tube of lipstick, not pay $150 to
take the family out to dinner, and find other ways to set aside money for
the important things in life.

Some people lose it all through no fault of their own, and went down with an
admirable fight. *Others live from paycheck to credit card, and wail when
the bill comes in the mail.

We do need some reforms in the insurance situation. *Those reforms do not
include providing better health care for criminals than our own citizens,
and then putting the burden of payment on the backs of people who do
actually work. *Your son and granddaughter are fighting a valiant fight..
Too bad they're not Mexican citizens who have been in the us for nine years
but can't speak English yet. *Their hospital care would be a walk-through.

Steve- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Steve...it is very clear that you are jealous of us who can afford the
expensive items available.

It is that jealousy that is blinding you to the reality.

TMT

On Feb 9, 1:05*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Steve B wrote:

"Ignoramus25972" wrote in message
...
On 2011-02-09, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

My 27 yo son was laid off of his job in construction in ~ 2007 where he
had
been employed for nearly a decade building apartment buildings in the US
for
a Canadian "Investment firm"...

Eventually, he was unable to keep up with Cobra insurance premiums and so
he
had to drop his ( as well as my grandkid's ) health insurance after an 18
months time period finally elapsed.

Fast forward 7 months where he again became against all odds employed
working for a paving company that was fixing the deteriorated interstate
road systems in our region.

All a Sudden * No big surprise

My 4 yo grand daughter gets excluded because of "pre existing conditions"
same carrier even

**** them **** all of you inthe insurance industry and **** all of you
tha
SUPPORT THEIR BULL**** PROFIT CLAims we ****ing work all of our life and
next thing we know we are getting ****ed on and my grand daughter with
leukemia gets the shaft and my son goes entirely bankrupt.

He has already lost everything and is now
almost two decades late in even starting a retirement account

Very sad. Many people fear a catastrophe risk like this, for good
reasons.

In fact, if people knew that they can have affordable medical
coverage, more of them would become entrepreneurs instead of being
stuck in jobs just because of medical coverage.

i

I think, perhaps, but not necessarily, also that they would start savings
accounts, not buy that 196" PlasmaTron HiDef TV WITH surround sound, not buy
a new car every 18 months, eat out less, not have to wear those $60 jeans
and $300 cowboy boots, not pay $12 for a tube of lipstick, not pay $150 to
take the family out to dinner, and find other ways to set aside money for
the important things in life.

Some people lose it all through no fault of their own, and went down with an
admirable fight. *Others live from paycheck to credit card, and wail when
the bill comes in the mail.

We do need some reforms in the insurance situation. *Those reforms do not
include providing better health care for criminals than our own citizens,
and then putting the burden of payment on the backs of people who do
actually work. *Your son and granddaughter are fighting a valiant fight.
Too bad they're not Mexican citizens who have been in the us for nine years
but can't speak English yet. *Their hospital care would be a walk-through.

* *They should have created an 'Insurance of last resort' company to
help those refused insurance, and to help those who just don't have
enough income instead of trying to destroy our health care system. *I've
heard several doctors talking about leaving the US to practice somewhere
else. *A few retired, rather than put up with the coming changes.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You mean they don't want their gravy train to stop.

They have nowhere to go...other countries already have the health care
system we are moving to.

And yes...some doctors will quit...because they know the gravy train
is coming to the end of the tracks.

TMT

On Feb 7, 12:00*pm, "Steve W." wrote:
Report Card on Obama's First Two Years
By K.E. Campbell
Two years ago today, Barack Obama was inaugurated as president of the
United States. *Are you better off today than you were two years ago?

Numbers don't lie, and here are the data on the impact he has had on the
lives of Americans:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/...bamas_first_tw...

No numbers do not lie...but conservatives do ALL THE TIME.

Your article is BS..and apparently you are not educated enough to
realize it.

I would suggest you get some real education.

Life is much better under Obama...for millions of Americans.

TMT

On Feb 8, 8:20*am, " wrote:
On Feb 7, 10:18*pm, Ignoramus31358 ignoramus31...@NOSPAM.





31358.invalid wrote:

What, specifically, has Obama done that has made you better off?

Restored general confidence tat a collapse of everything will not be
allowed.

Actually, yes, lower housing prices is a good and not a bad thing, it
means that houses are more affordable. As for those in foreclosure, it
simply is a result of loans that were given unwisely, at the time when
they were actually given.

You cannot blame Obama for a dumb loan made in 2007 to an
irresponsible borrower.

i

I do not believe that Obama restored confidence. *I had confidence,
but it was shaken when Obama put the emphasis on the Health Care
instead of the economy. *And it is somewhat shaken by the increase in
the national debt.

Lower house prices are a good thing, unless one wants to sell their
house or in my case some land. *The land was acquired back in 1975 for
cash so no problem with loans. *Just not much market for land and the
real estate taxes still have to be paid. * According to the evalution
for taxes the land has gone down in value by 87k$ from 2010 to 2011.
That time period is all on OBama's watch. *Problems selling *applies
regardless of whether the loans were prudent or unwise.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dan...when things are going to hell, you put the biggest fire out
first.

Medical costs in this Country WAS and still IS the biggest fire...with
projections that it will outstrip the entire GNP in the near future.

Job production was #2...and the Obama stimilus was and still is
considered to be a temporary bandaid.

If there is anyone who should be hung by their thumbs, it is the
Repubicans for delaying work on the needs of America...their behavior
has cost both you and me BILLIONS.

TMT

On 2/7/2011 8:57 PM, RogerN wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...


Report Card on Obama's First Two Years
By K.E. Campbell
Two years ago today, Barack Obama was inaugurated as president of the
United States. Are you better off today than you were two years ago?

Numbers don't lie, and here are the data on the impact he has had on the
lives of Americans:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/..._first_tw.html


The company I work for is global with plants in Russia, Romania, Germany,
Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, ...all over the world. The amount of work I
get in overtime is proportional to the economy of the USA. The last year of
Bush, I made $70k, the 1st year of Obama, I made $62K, the 2nd year of Obama
I made $66K, I made more last year than the year before, but I'm still not
making what I made the last year of Bush. And my earnings are right in line
with the statistics, the economy is better than 2009 but still not as good
as 2008. For those paying attention, the economic nosedive happened the
same time Obama pulled ahead in the polls, our plants overtime and projects
halted the day after the election that Obama won. Just a coincidence I'm
sure, yeah right!

Hmmm... Try this, the economy started to tank, and people compared the
reactions of Obama and McCain, and decided correctly that the only one
who had a chance of pulling the country out was Obama. McCain was doing
a complete OSRIC, do you recall him suspending his campaign? That is
why the polls and the crisis corresponded.

By the way, the people were right, and the economy is recovering. If
the party of no doesn't tank it with premature cutbacks.

On Feb 8, 9:13*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:52:44 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck





wrote:
On Feb 8, 8:37*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

As to stimulus money, I know of no where in the Constitution
that the Fed has been given the power to regulate or
stimulate the economy. Certainly *not by taxing working
people, and then redistributing the money to other people.
The working people who actually do useful work *have been
damaged quite a lot by that reckless spending.

Where do you think tax money goes?

The government collects money from you in the form of taxes and fees.
The government then spends that money. Perhaps they spend some of it
at your place of business, perhaps some of it goes directly to you
through some government program or another, but the rest goes to
someone else. That is redisttribution of money. That is what
governments do.

=============
Its worse than you think. *Below is an email I sent to my
Representative and Senators in Congress.

----- start of email -----
Yet another reason to vote NO on increasing the National
Debt Limit. *Indeed, legislation to increase the debt limit
should not even be considered or allowed on the floor of
either house, where it just might pass.

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/...n_debbie_stabe...
snip
The Charging America Forward Act, first proposed last
summer, would provide customers with a $7,500 rebate for
plug-in electric vehicles, offer businesses tax credits for
purchasing plug-in hybrid trucks, expand a tax credit for
the installation of charging stations and renew a
public-private partnership to boost advanced battery
production.

Vice President Joe Biden last month suggested rebates could
replace tax credits as part of the Obama administration's
three-part plan to put 1 million electric vehicles on the
road by 2015, and Stabenow says her legislation will benefit
Michigan.
snip

Why should I or any other taxpayer give $7,500 to anyone to
buy an electric car? *Even worse, why should the government
of the United States BORROW $7,500 to give to anyone to buy
an electric car. *It should be noted that the actual cost to
the Treasury/Taxpayers would be considerably more than
$7,500 because of the overhead expenses.

The only way to stop this profligate and reckless spending,
short of total economic collapse, is to refuse to raise the
debt limit, with or without the Toomey payment priority
legislation.

While some of the motives behind this proposed subsidy, such
as a reduction in the need to import oil, are commendable
there appears to be a much simpler and cheaper alternatives.

One alternative is for Congress to override all NHTSA/DOT
and EPA regulations and preempt all state regulations, e.g.
California, that prevent the importation and sale of the
small and highly fuel efficient diesel cars that meet the
more stringent EEC standards. *As indicated in prior emails,
these overrides to be effective must be accompanied with
severe civil and criminal penalties, including prison time,
for evasion, obstruction, impediment, etc.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...pollution/l281...

The MPG numbers in the following articles are miles per
*IMPERIAL* gallon and must be converted to US MPG. *Seehttp://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.htmland/orhttp://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuel-consumption-converter-d_850.html

FWIW
317 MPG Imperial = 317 * 0.833 = 264 MPG US
85.6 MPG Imp = 71.3 MPG US
80.7 MPG Imp = 67.2 MPG US

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...olkswagen/8293...
snip
That's VW's 21st-century streamliner, the XL1, honed not for
speed but to achieve an astonishing 313mpg.
snip

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...herford/829617...

These are production cars are available at dealers showrooms
in the UK.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...98652/The-most...

----- end of email -----

Feel free to use all, part or none if you want to write your
Congressmen.

To identify your Senators gotohttp://senate.gov/*To
identify your representative gotohttp://house.gov/. *Most
members of congress now have web mail which you can access
through the above sites. *Be sure and bookmark.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Two questions George...

1) If YOU were our Chinese banker and saw the United States default on
its loans, would you lend us any more money?

2) How will YOU feed hundreds of millions of Americans when the
American economy collapses literally overnight after the credit dies
up?

TMT

Was it 2002, I think? Dems fielded Clinton. Vibrant fellow
with great hair, and a line of BS. Reps fielded Bob Dole, a
war cripple who mumbles. The guy with the good hair won.

Fast forward to 2008, the Dems fielded Obama. Vibrant
fellow, with great hair and a line of BS. Reps had to search
long and hard to find a war cripple who mumbles. The
election was predictable.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Stuart Wheaton"
wrote in message
...

Hmmm... Try this, the economy started to tank, and people
compared the
reactions of Obama and McCain, and decided correctly that
the only one
who had a chance of pulling the country out was Obama.
McCain was doing
a complete OSRIC, do you recall him suspending his campaign?
That is
why the polls and the crisis corresponded.

By the way, the people were right, and the economy is
recovering. If
the party of no doesn't tank it with premature cutbacks.

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 15:40:05 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

Two questions George...

1) If YOU were our Chinese banker and saw the United States default on
its loans, would you lend us any more money?
The proposed Senator Toomey [R-Penn] legislation is
specifically designed to prevent the politicians/
bureaucrats and bankers from causing the US government to
default by forcing bond redemption and interest payments to
the top of the Federal disbursement priority list, thus
putting real meaning in the phrase "full faith and credit."

From the available data the tax revenues of the US
government are at least 10X the amount required to redeem
the bonds / service the loans. You can review the Toomey
proposals at http://toomey.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=330945

The Chinese are getting shafted all right, but because of
the QE2 inflation of the dollar by the FRB, because the Yuan
is tied to the US Dollar, this also inflates their currency.
While this does seem to be reinflating the domestic US stock
and commodities bubbles, it is having disastrous effects on
the other economies as the "carry trade" hot money [borrow
cheap in the US, lend at the high inflation fighting rates
there] funds pour into their already overheated economies,
e.g. Brazil. FWIW -- The food commodity bubble appears to
be a major contributing factor to mid-east instability.

2) How will YOU feed hundreds of millions of Americans when the
American economy collapses literally overnight after the credit dies
up?
Why do you think that a lack of credit will result in a lack
of basic food stuffs? There may be a flat screen TV crisis
and a shortage of Brie, but in any event how will it be any
less catastrophic if the collapse occurs when no one will
loan the Federal government any more money in a few years
rather than Congress refusing to enact an increase in the
debt limit now, preventing the government from any more
borrowing (and profligate spending)? If the money is
available it will be spent. Private business, local and
state governments have had to reduce their work force and/or
cut back on hours, e.g. California state worker "furloughs."
Why should the Federal Civil Service be exempt? I would
improve the Toomey proposals by making certain governmental
departments and activities dead last on the disbursement
priority list such as the TSA, ICE, BATF, Dept of Education
and foreign/military aid.

TMT


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 09:27:03 -0700, Steve Ackman
wrote:

In , on Tue, 08 Feb 2011
19:34:39 -0800, Larry Jaques, wrote:

OK. I should reread that book soonest...
And re-reread _Unintended Consequences_.

It's been a few years since I read Unintended
Consequences, and I'm sure I'll get around to it again
one of these days, but I still have too much stuff to
read the first time before I get around to re-reading
anything.

I hear that. I have a 7' tall bookshelf full of unread books.


Actually, I recently got the Mother Earth News DVD
with 41 years worth of articles... well worth it to me
for $40. Anything between about '73 and '86 would be
a re-read. Most of the newer stuff would be for the
first time.

Yeah, I read it for a long while back then, too, but have you seen the
recent copies? They went PC and AGWK I lost interest in a hurry.


I also *really* need to get to the seed catalog.
Got an e-mail the other day that the hardcopy was
undeliverable. E-mailed them the new address back,
and got the catalog in a couple of days. That's their
first step down the "dark path."

Abandon Vader Seeds, Inc, sir!


(One of those companies that prides itself on not using
computers, publicizing, "This catalog was typest
entirely without the use of computers.")

Strange how FarmTek and HarborFreight can follow us
around with no input on our part, but other places
can't.

giggle


Anyone who likes to plant unusual stuff, or even
just think about planting useful/medicinal/weird
stuff will enjoy http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/

--snip-- pics omitted for Usenet

DEA officer stops at a ranch in Texas, and talks with an old rancher.
He tells the rancher, "I need to inspect your ranch for illegally
grown drugs." The rancher says, "Okay , but don't go in that field
...

Was that posted here before? Or did I see it
elsewhere?

I got it via email and just had to share it. You may have received it
from one of your joke exchangers, too.

--
Education is when you read the fine print.
Experience is what you get if you don't.
-- Pete Seeger