I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

i

In article ,
Ignoramus3188 wrote:

On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

Try Medeco, for one.

And well-designed lever locks can be difficult.

Joe Gwinn

Ignoramus3188 wrote:

On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market
stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys,
some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common
round keys, all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as
we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of
time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed
to.

Ignoramus3188 wrote:
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

There are electronic locks, with a box with usually four or five rocker
switches. As far as I know, you can set your combination to any arbitrary
pattern of switch clicks. If somebody tries it and misses three times
in a row, it disables the lock for maybe an hour or something.

Bank vaults use time locks, but I kinda doubt if you'd get one for less
than a bill - maybe more like five or ten - a bank vault door is probably
tens of thousands, but you've already got the safe.

One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as I've
been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a power jack
alongside the combination buttons. ;-)

Hope This Helps!
Or even amuses, or diverts. %-}

Cheers!
Rich

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:53:55 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Lock picking is a traditional interest and activity for MIT
undergrads. Jeff Wisnea could elucidate if he might care to.

Pete C. wrote:

Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market
stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys,
some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common
round keys,

Heh. When I had the job as a video game repair tech, we'd sometimes
get a game in for repair, whose owner had lost the key. Sometimes the
whole service call was just to replace the lock.

We drilled it out. :-

Oh, did I men it was that round-key type? The ordinary tumbler-type,
you can do with a freakin' screwdriver. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as
we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of
time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed
to.

There are websites and videos/DVDs all about the level of (in)security that
common and sophisticated locks provide.

MythBusters did a show where they defeated some very high-tech locks,
including fingerprint verification locks.

A secondary consideration of security would be the material the lock is
mounted to. Soft pine or MDF door frames have no strength, and a good prybar
can easily overcome the strength of those soft materials very easily with
little noise.

Many of the metalworking types here in RCM have the imagination, skill and
equipment to fabricate long, heavy duty reinforcement plates of heavy gage
steel to reinforce their doors and locking mechanisms.

Many cheaply made door handsets with the lock integrated into the doorknob
are easily defeated with force, a strong grip or tool that can be used to
apply considerable torque can easily provide enough force to break the
internal parts and provide a criminal with a quiet, easy entry.

There are often easier ways to enter a secure area other than a secure door,
in which the secure door may just provide an easy exit from the inside.

The usage of the term security is a fallicy in most cases, in any area of
our lives.. whether it's borders or neighborhoods, privacy, communication of
all types, or places we live in or go to, even food, water or various
commercial products (tylenol lacing 1982 and 1986).

http://www.mallenbaker.net/csr/crisis02.html

--
WB
..........


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

Lock picking is a traditional interest and activity for MIT
undergrads. Jeff Wisnea could elucidate if he might care to.

On Jan 22, 11:12*pm, Ignoramus3188
wrote:
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:





I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest
worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large
order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these
locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them
within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking"
of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked
very well made.

He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in
under five minutes.

And remember, if the lock is too tough for the bad guy, there are
crowbars, sledge hammers, battering rams and ladders - a smoke alarm
went off in a neighbor's house. I watched the firemen put a ladder up
to a second-floor window, climb up & in, and come downstairs and
unlock the frond door.

If the burglar wants in, his getting in. Period. The best you can hope
for is that your neighbor's house is more attractive to him than yours
is.

rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 22, 11:12 pm, Ignoramus3188
wrote:
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:





I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It
can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock
picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest
people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in."
After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say,
$100, that are not so easy to pick?

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest
worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large
order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these
locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them
within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking"
of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked
very well made.

He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in
under five minutes.

And remember, if the lock is too tough for the bad guy, there are
crowbars, sledge hammers, battering rams and ladders - a smoke alarm
went off in a neighbor's house. I watched the firemen put a ladder up
to a second-floor window, climb up & in, and come downstairs and
unlock the frond door.

If the burglar wants in, his getting in. Period. The best you can hope
for is that your neighbor's house is more attractive to him than yours
is.

Helps to have a couple of large dogs that bark at strange noises ... and
have a rep as being "trained" .

--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On Jan 23, 1:42*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:53:55 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck





wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Lock picking is a traditional interest and activity for MIT
undergrads. *Jeff Wisnea could elucidate if he might care to.

One of my instructional sources was an MIT lockpicking guide.
http://lockpickguide.com/support-fil...tolockpick.pdf

"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...

and of course the relatively common
round keys,

Disposable pen. Unless its a newer design round lock. The common ones open
easily enough.

rangerssuck wrote:
One of my instructional sources was an MIT lockpicking guide.
http://lockpickguide.com/support-fil...tolockpick.pdf

I learned lockpicking at MIT about 20 years before that document was written.
One of my friends took a locksmithing by mail course, so he would be able to
find work after the revolution.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:53:55 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote:

I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.


google "pick gun" & "key bumping"

Lock picks are for people who enjoy doing it the hard wayr.

H.

rangerssuck wrote:

I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

I tend to believe that many inteligent people find picking locks quite interesting.

I was going to add mechanically inclined to that description but I have often heard that
software types (hackers) like defeating locks also.

Wes

--
If it makes you feel better, your government fears you as much as you fear it.

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:10 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Ignoramus3188 wrote:

On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market
stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys,
some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common
round keys, all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as
we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of
time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed
to.


At one time I had master keys to high quality locks, they had very
sharp cuts and where a major pain in the ass when sat upon.


SW

rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 22, 11:12 pm,
wrote:
On 2011-01-23, wrote:





I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

i- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest
worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large
order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these
locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them
within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking"
of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked
very well made.

He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in
under five minutes.

And remember, if the lock is too tough for the bad guy, there are
crowbars, sledge hammers, battering rams and ladders - a smoke alarm
went off in a neighbor's house. I watched the firemen put a ladder up
to a second-floor window, climb up& in, and come downstairs and
unlock the frond door.

If the burglar wants in, his getting in. Period. The best you can hope
for is that your neighbor's house is more attractive to him than yours
is.


I went on a service call one time to an antenna site that was about 40
miles from the shop. When I got there I realized that I did not have
the key for the gate. I had a spare lock and figured I could break the
existing lock and install the lock I had when I left. I hit the lock
with a hammer right in the middle between where the hasps went into the
lock.
In my amazement the thing poped open. It was a high quality lock but
then not that high quality. I tried that system on some other locks and
it worked on them too. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool
with a slitter wheel.


John

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
-

One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as I've
been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a power jack
alongside the combination buttons. ;-)


Seems to me last time I looked at an eletronic combination lock safe it was
battery powered, and you could change the battery without opening the safe.

I get visions of the Pope, having Poped the lock.
Sorry, I am the son of an editor.

Glad that worked out. I poped (well, I had the
hammer, but the Mormon missionary boy did
the deed) a D-shaped bike lock. Poped, or rather
Mormoned open a lot easier than we expected.
The bicycle owner had gone to a new area, and
we needed to get his bicycle to him.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"John" wrote in message
...

I went on a service call one time to an antenna site that
was about 40 miles from the shop. When I got there
I realized that I did not have the key for the gate. I had
a spare lock and figured I could break the existing lock
and install the lock I had when I left. I hit the lock with
a hammer right in the middle between where the hasps
went into the lock. In my amazement the thing poped
open. It was a high quality lock but then not that high
quality. I tried that system on some other locks and
it worked on them too. Now days all you need is a
battery operated tool with a slitter wheel.


John

"Bob La Londe" wrote in
:

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
-

One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as
I've been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a
power jack alongside the combination buttons. ;-)

Seems to me last time I looked at an eletronic combination lock safe
it was battery powered, and you could change the battery without
opening the safe.

Some of the security safes at work use a "wind up" lock. It has a magneto
in it, and you spin it several times to power up the lock.

Doug White

On Jan 23, 6:37*pm, Wes wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

I tend to believe that many inteligent people find picking locks quite interesting. *

I was going to add mechanically inclined to that description but I have often heard that
software types (hackers) like defeating locks also.

Wes

--
If it makes you feel better, your government fears you as much as you fear it

I've thought about bump keys and pick guns, but there's something
satisfying about doing it the old fashioned way. You have to visualize
what's going on inside the lock.

On Jan 22, 11:27*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Ignoramus3188 wrote:

On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market
stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys,
some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common
round keys, all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as
we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of
time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed
to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

There are PLENTY of tools available for the round locks, and they're
said to be easier to pick, if you have the right tools. I've never
tried it, but i've seen video, and it makes perfect sense that it
would be easier, since you can deal with one pin at a time as they are
facing you rather than having to reach around the other pins in a
"conventional" lock.

"John" wrote in message
...
snip--

.. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool
with a slitter wheel.


John

You got that right. I had three locks cut that way on our containers while
we were out of town.

Beyond the locks, many hasps are cheesy affairs, easily broken with a
hammer. As has been said already, if the bad guy wants in, he's going to
get in. It's best to have S&W insurance.

Harold

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"John" wrote in message
...
snip--

. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool
with a slitter wheel.


John

You got that right. I had three locks cut that way on our containers
while we were out of town.

Beyond the locks, many hasps are cheesy affairs, easily broken with a
hammer. As has been said already, if the bad guy wants in, he's going to
get in. It's best to have S&W insurance.

Harold


Metal buildings are easy pickings for someone with a screw gun. Just
unscrew the metal sheets and enter. A good motion detection system and
plenty of lights going on and an alarm bell ringing will usually make
the crooks run away. Cameras will possibly get some identification on
the crooks so they can be arrested.

John

Exterior lighting is generally the most cost effective deterrant to having
criminals approach a building at night unless the building is in a remote
location no potential witnesses).

Many of the cheap surveillance/security cameras (including models with IR
light sources) won't get good enough identity details for evidence
(especially if the lighting is poor), good quality cameras and recording
equipment will capture much clearer images.

Padlocks are one of the least secure mechanisms, as it's been pointed out
that they're fairly easily compromised.
Modifying padlocked entrances/access by adding sturdy internal flush-mounted
bolt-type locking mechanisms would enhance the level of security.

Security in most instances is only the level of complexity required to be
defeated or bypassed.

--
WB
..........


"John" wrote in message
...

Metal buildings are easy pickings for someone with a screw gun. Just
unscrew the metal sheets and enter. A good motion detection system and
plenty of lights going on and an alarm bell ringing will usually make the
crooks run away. Cameras will possibly get some identification on the
crooks so they can be arrested.

John

rangerssuck wrote:

Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest
worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large
order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these
locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them
within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking"
of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked
very well made.

He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in
under five minutes.

So, it was a key lock. How'd he do on combination locks? I was in the
USAF, and theu used a type of combination padlock that was approved for
protecting classified stuff.

Thanks,
Rich

On Jan 24, 8:00*am, Rich Grise wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:

Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest
worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large
order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these
locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them
within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking"
of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked
very well made.

He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in
under five minutes.

So, it was a key lock. How'd he do on combination locks? I was in the
USAF, and theu used a type of combination padlock that was approved for
protecting classified stuff.

Thanks,
Rich

I don't know. This was a sample size of one; and it was a shop that
sold locks for residential front doors. I have never seen a safe-style
combination lock on a residential door. Have you?

Also, how impervious are those padlocks to brute force? How
indestructable are the doors they were securing?

Didja ever see this (and yes, I know it's only a movie, but it's
representative of things you could do if you really wanted to get into
a safe)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7KVP...lpage#t=10 0s

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:10:24 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"John" wrote in message
m...
snip--

. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool
with a slitter wheel.


John

You got that right. I had three locks cut that way on our containers while
we were out of town.

That sucks. Did they rob you blind? How about the house? Shop?


Beyond the locks, many hasps are cheesy affairs, easily broken with a
hammer. As has been said already, if the bad guy wants in, he's going to
get in. It's best to have S&W insurance.

Yeah, physical S&W home invasion insurance and paper-based
replacement-cost insurance.

--
"I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded
professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who
encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I
learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy
as opposed to intentions."
-- Walter E. Williams

rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:00*am, Rich Grise wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:

Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest
worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large
order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these
locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them
within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking"
of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked
very well made.

He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in
under five minutes.

So, it was a key lock. How'd he do on combination locks? I was in the
USAF, and theu used a type of combination padlock that was approved for
protecting classified stuff.

I don't know. This was a sample size of one; and it was a shop that
sold locks for residential front doors. I have never seen a safe-style
combination lock on a residential door. Have you?

No, you've got a point here. (sometimes you see a combination on a keybox
for a vacant house that's for sale.)

Also, how impervious are those padlocks to brute force? How
indestructable are the doors they were securing?

The locks? Same as any other - I once ground through a shackle with a
Dremel. I've seen locks torched off in seconds. If you've got the tools,
you can do anything! :-)

Didja ever see this (and yes, I know it's only a movie, but it's
representative of things you could do if you really wanted to get into
a safe)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7KVP...lpage#t=10 0s

I haven't seen the thing yet - my browser doesn't render youtube very well,
but your mentioning the issue made me think of Goldfinger with his
laser. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

Doug White wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in
:

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
-

One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as
I've been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a
power jack alongside the combination buttons. ;-)

Seems to me last time I looked at an eletronic combination lock safe
it was battery powered, and you could change the battery without
opening the safe.

Some of the security safes at work use a "wind up" lock. It has a magneto
in it, and you spin it several times to power up the lock.

Doug White

the only catch with those things is eventually everybody loses track of
how many codes/users were set for it.

On 2011-01-23, Ignoramus3188 wrote:
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

[ ... ]

really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

[ ... ]

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

[ ... ]

Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100,
that are not so easy to pick?

There are things which can be done to a standard pin-tumbler
lock to make it more difficult to pick -- but certainly not impossible.
The most common thing is "mushroom tumblers" (or "spool tumblers"),
which look sort of like this (use a fixed pitch to view -- yes, Iggy, I
know that you will anyway, but this is for others).

+--+ +-
| | | \
| +-----------+ |
| |
| |
| +-----------+ |
| | | /
+--+ +-

This is used instead of a plain cylinder. It can replace both the driver
(the part just below the spring) and the part which the key actually
lifts, with varying degrees of curvature on the right-hand end (as
drawn). The driver would be closer to flat, while the part which
contacts the key would be more rounded.

The idea being that when the tension is applied, you wind up
with the split between the plug and the body shifting into the turned
down section, and trapping the pin so you can't get the actual point of
join lifted to the right height. (Of course, this is weaker, and if
someone drives a screwdriver blade into the lock and twists hard, it may
well shear all the pins at the thin point -- especially if *all* the
pins are of this type instead of being full cylinders.

The Medeco brand locks have a somewhat more complex design, and
are both pick resistant, and require a very special tool to duplicate
the keys. (Instead of the grooves all being at right angles to the key
blank, they are alternately tilted down to the right or left.)

The Ace barrel locks (the kind found on vending machines) are
quite difficult to pick as well, especially if fitted with mushroom
tumblers -- but I don't think that you can find them in a format to
mount in a door.

But -- before going into all of this -- consider how strong
everything around the lock is. For example, if there are glass panes
beside the door, it is easy to break the glass and reach through to
unlock from the inside.

Or the typical door these days is a hollow core with a honeycomb
of cardboard separating two thin wood strips, so it is fairly easy to
break through that, too.

For the glass beside the door situation -- consider a knuckle
lock with cylinders on both sides of the door -- so you need a key to
lock or unlock it from inside as well as outside. Then, if they break
the window, there is still nothing for them to turn.

But remember -- all of this will only slow down a sufficiently
determined attacker.

And yes, I have picked door locks for co-workers who locked
themselves out. I typically would make the tools for the use from old
bandsaw blades, accomplish the rescue, and then destroy the tools, just
so I am not found walking around with a lock pick set. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Joseph Gwinn writes:

[?better locks?]

Try Medeco, for one.

And well-designed lever locks can be difficult.

Yep. Have fun with either. Keep your rotary pick [aka Black & Deecker] handy.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

The S&G's and Moslers were replaced with electronic "X07" locks;
I suspect X98 or 9 by now. Yes, powered by the magneto; spin a
few times to power it up.

The classified padlock was an S&G 8077.

Many people claim to be able to pick {traditional} Medeco's.
My instructor talked about seeing two brothers who could,
sometimes. He said it took them between 45-100 minutes, on a
good day. On an off-day, they never got it open.




--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"Wild_Bill" writes:


MythBusters did a show where they defeated some very high-tech locks,
including fingerprint verification locks.

Matt Blaze, a systems security guru, ****ed off the locksmithing
community by applying the same approaches to master keying systems
and locks in general that he uses in analyzing networks.

They regarded the knowledge as trade guild secrets, and he
therefore was an infidel for revealing it.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

On 2011-01-25, David Lesher wrote:
"Wild_Bill" writes:


MythBusters did a show where they defeated some very high-tech locks,
including fingerprint verification locks.

Matt Blaze, a systems security guru, ****ed off the locksmithing
community by applying the same approaches to master keying systems
and locks in general that he uses in analyzing networks.

They regarded the knowledge as trade guild secrets, and he
therefore was an infidel for revealing it.


I love Matt Blaze. He is my hero and I am subscribed to his blog, of
which I am a faithful reader. I remember that article.

i

How would you define "good quality" ? Cams and Rec
equipment?

thanks

gary





Many of the cheap surveillance/security cameras (including models with IR
light sources) won't get good enough identity details for evidence
(especially if the lighting is poor), good quality cameras and recording
equipment will capture much clearer images.

In article
,
rangerssuck wrote:

I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.


Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em?

I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front
door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major
remodel in 2004.

I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open.
Don't know where that key is, either.

Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so
the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back,
the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there.

It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation.
Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave
& smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . .

Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.sharpbywarner.com

"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:160220111908597203%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net...
In article
,
rangerssuck wrote:

I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.


Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em?

I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front
door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major
remodel in 2004.

I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open.
Don't know where that key is, either.

Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so
the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back,
the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there.

It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation.
Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave
& smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . .

Yeah, but you gotta watch them cops.....

Regarding locks: cheap locks are pickable, Medeco and a few others are not.
However, choose the way you want to get robbed: you'll need to hold on to
the counter when you get them duped.
--
EA


Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.sharpbywarner.com

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:160220111908597203%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net...
In article
,
rangerssuck wrote:

I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.

I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it
was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I
picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't
really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks,
and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy.

The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I
showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes
explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he
proceeded to pick my front door lock.

A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people
honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my
brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him.

Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story.


Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em?

I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front
door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major
remodel in 2004.

I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open.
Don't know where that key is, either.

Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so
the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back,
the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there.

It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation.
Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave
& smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . .

Yeah, but you gotta watch them cops.....

Regarding locks: cheap locks are pickable, Medeco and a few others are
not.
However, choose the way you want to get robbed: you'll need to hold on to
the counter when you get them duped.

Oh, but dats nuthin compared to losing yer Toyoter Prius key: cough up $500
fer a new one....
The key for my Honder **** is $100+. Shades of Wall Street, eh???
--
EA


--
EA


Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.sharpbywarner.com

Frank J Warner wrote:

It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation.
Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave
& smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . .

A few years ago, I was living in a second-floor apartment in San Pedro, CA.
I had my bike locked to the stairway handrail. The bike lock was one of the
ones with about a 5/16" steel cable. One morning, I came down to discover
the bike gone and the cable cut - the cable strands were all splayed, as if
they'd taken a hacksaw to it.

Now I live in Whittier and have a Master lock and a length of 3/4" log
chain. At night, I keep the bike inside.

Cheers!
Rich