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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks.
I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? i |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
In article ,
Ignoramus3188 wrote: On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? Try Medeco, for one. And well-designed lever locks can be difficult. Joe Gwinn |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Joseph Gwinn writes:
[?better locks?] Try Medeco, for one. And well-designed lever locks can be difficult. Yep. Have fun with either. Keep your rotary pick [aka Black & Deecker] handy. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Ignoramus3188 wrote: On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys, some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common round keys, all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed to. |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Pete C. wrote:
Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys, some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common round keys, Heh. When I had the job as a video game repair tech, we'd sometimes get a game in for repair, whose owner had lost the key. Sometimes the whole service call was just to replace the lock. We drilled it out. :- Oh, did I men it was that round-key type? The ordinary tumbler-type, you can do with a freakin' screwdriver. ;-) Cheers! Rich all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed to. |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com... and of course the relatively common round keys, Disposable pen. Unless its a newer design round lock. The common ones open easily enough. |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 22:27:10 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote: Ignoramus3188 wrote: On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys, some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common round keys, all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed to. At one time I had master keys to high quality locks, they had very sharp cuts and where a major pain in the ass when sat upon. SW |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Jan 22, 11:27*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Ignoramus3188 wrote: On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? Yep, there are certainly higher security locks than the mass market stuff. Medeco, Abloy, even some Masters. Some have side dimple cut keys, some have interesting angle cuts, and of course the relatively common round keys, all types that the common pick sets won't help with. But as we all know here, the difference between them is just in the amount of time and number of tools it would take us to defeat them if we needed to.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - There are PLENTY of tools available for the round locks, and they're said to be easier to pick, if you have the right tools. I've never tried it, but i've seen video, and it makes perfect sense that it would be easier, since you can deal with one pin at a time as they are facing you rather than having to reach around the other pins in a "conventional" lock. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Ignoramus3188 wrote:
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? There are electronic locks, with a box with usually four or five rocker switches. As far as I know, you can set your combination to any arbitrary pattern of switch clicks. If somebody tries it and misses three times in a row, it disables the lock for maybe an hour or something. Bank vaults use time locks, but I kinda doubt if you'd get one for less than a bill - maybe more like five or ten - a bank vault door is probably tens of thousands, but you've already got the safe. One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as I've been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a power jack alongside the combination buttons. ;-) Hope This Helps! Or even amuses, or diverts. %-} Cheers! Rich |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"Rich Grise" wrote in message
- One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as I've been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a power jack alongside the combination buttons. ;-) Seems to me last time I looked at an eletronic combination lock safe it was battery powered, and you could change the battery without opening the safe. |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"Bob La Londe" wrote in
: "Rich Grise" wrote in message - One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as I've been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a power jack alongside the combination buttons. ;-) Seems to me last time I looked at an eletronic combination lock safe it was battery powered, and you could change the battery without opening the safe. Some of the security safes at work use a "wind up" lock. It has a magneto in it, and you spin it several times to power up the lock. Doug White |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Doug White wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in : "Rich Grise" wrote in message - One serious drawback of the electronic lock is powering it, but as I've been writing this, it's occurred to me that one could mount a power jack alongside the combination buttons. ;-) Seems to me last time I looked at an eletronic combination lock safe it was battery powered, and you could change the battery without opening the safe. Some of the security safes at work use a "wind up" lock. It has a magneto in it, and you spin it several times to power up the lock. Doug White the only catch with those things is eventually everybody loses track of how many codes/users were set for it. |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
The S&G's and Moslers were replaced with electronic "X07" locks; I suspect X98 or 9 by now. Yes, powered by the magneto; spin a few times to power it up. The classified padlock was an S&G 8077. Many people claim to be able to pick {traditional} Medeco's. My instructor talked about seeing two brothers who could, sometimes. He said it took them between 45-100 minutes, on a good day. On an off-day, they never got it open. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Jan 22, 11:12*pm, Ignoramus3188
wrote: On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? i- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking" of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked very well made. He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in under five minutes. And remember, if the lock is too tough for the bad guy, there are crowbars, sledge hammers, battering rams and ladders - a smoke alarm went off in a neighbor's house. I watched the firemen put a ladder up to a second-floor window, climb up & in, and come downstairs and unlock the frond door. If the burglar wants in, his getting in. Period. The best you can hope for is that your neighbor's house is more attractive to him than yours is. |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 22, 11:12 pm, Ignoramus3188 wrote: On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? i- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking" of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked very well made. He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in under five minutes. And remember, if the lock is too tough for the bad guy, there are crowbars, sledge hammers, battering rams and ladders - a smoke alarm went off in a neighbor's house. I watched the firemen put a ladder up to a second-floor window, climb up & in, and come downstairs and unlock the frond door. If the burglar wants in, his getting in. Period. The best you can hope for is that your neighbor's house is more attractive to him than yours is. Helps to have a couple of large dogs that bark at strange noises ... and have a rep as being "trained" . -- Snag Learning keeps you young ! |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 22, 11:12 pm, wrote: On 2011-01-23, wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? i- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking" of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked very well made. He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in under five minutes. And remember, if the lock is too tough for the bad guy, there are crowbars, sledge hammers, battering rams and ladders - a smoke alarm went off in a neighbor's house. I watched the firemen put a ladder up to a second-floor window, climb up& in, and come downstairs and unlock the frond door. If the burglar wants in, his getting in. Period. The best you can hope for is that your neighbor's house is more attractive to him than yours is. I went on a service call one time to an antenna site that was about 40 miles from the shop. When I got there I realized that I did not have the key for the gate. I had a spare lock and figured I could break the existing lock and install the lock I had when I left. I hit the lock with a hammer right in the middle between where the hasps went into the lock. In my amazement the thing poped open. It was a high quality lock but then not that high quality. I tried that system on some other locks and it worked on them too. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool with a slitter wheel. John |
#18
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
I get visions of the Pope, having Poped the lock.
Sorry, I am the son of an editor. Glad that worked out. I poped (well, I had the hammer, but the Mormon missionary boy did the deed) a D-shaped bike lock. Poped, or rather Mormoned open a lot easier than we expected. The bicycle owner had gone to a new area, and we needed to get his bicycle to him. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "John" wrote in message ... I went on a service call one time to an antenna site that was about 40 miles from the shop. When I got there I realized that I did not have the key for the gate. I had a spare lock and figured I could break the existing lock and install the lock I had when I left. I hit the lock with a hammer right in the middle between where the hasps went into the lock. In my amazement the thing poped open. It was a high quality lock but then not that high quality. I tried that system on some other locks and it worked on them too. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool with a slitter wheel. John |
#19
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"John" wrote in message ... snip-- .. Now days all you need is a battery operated tool with a slitter wheel. John You got that right. I had three locks cut that way on our containers while we were out of town. Beyond the locks, many hasps are cheesy affairs, easily broken with a hammer. As has been said already, if the bad guy wants in, he's going to get in. It's best to have S&W insurance. Harold |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
"John" wrote in message ... snip-- . Now days all you need is a battery operated tool with a slitter wheel. John You got that right. I had three locks cut that way on our containers while we were out of town. Beyond the locks, many hasps are cheesy affairs, easily broken with a hammer. As has been said already, if the bad guy wants in, he's going to get in. It's best to have S&W insurance. Harold Metal buildings are easy pickings for someone with a screw gun. Just unscrew the metal sheets and enter. A good motion detection system and plenty of lights going on and an alarm bell ringing will usually make the crooks run away. Cameras will possibly get some identification on the crooks so they can be arrested. John |
#21
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 05:10:24 GMT, "Harold & Susan Vordos"
wrote: "John" wrote in message m... snip-- . Now days all you need is a battery operated tool with a slitter wheel. John You got that right. I had three locks cut that way on our containers while we were out of town. That sucks. Did they rob you blind? How about the house? Shop? Beyond the locks, many hasps are cheesy affairs, easily broken with a hammer. As has been said already, if the bad guy wants in, he's going to get in. It's best to have S&W insurance. Yeah, physical S&W home invasion insurance and paper-based replacement-cost insurance. -- "I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy as opposed to intentions." -- Walter E. Williams |
#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
rangerssuck wrote:
Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking" of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked very well made. He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in under five minutes. So, it was a key lock. How'd he do on combination locks? I was in the USAF, and theu used a type of combination padlock that was approved for protecting classified stuff. Thanks, Rich |
#23
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Jan 24, 8:00*am, Rich Grise wrote:
rangerssuck wrote: Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking" of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked very well made. He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in under five minutes. So, it was a key lock. How'd he do on combination locks? I was in the USAF, and theu used a type of combination padlock that was approved for protecting classified stuff. Thanks, Rich I don't know. This was a sample size of one; and it was a shop that sold locks for residential front doors. I have never seen a safe-style combination lock on a residential door. Have you? Also, how impervious are those padlocks to brute force? How indestructable are the doors they were securing? Didja ever see this (and yes, I know it's only a movie, but it's representative of things you could do if you really wanted to get into a safe)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7KVP...lpage#t=10 0s |
#24
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
rangerssuck wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:00*am, Rich Grise wrote: rangerssuck wrote: Well, the locksmith who told me about keeping honest people honest worked at an industrial hardware store. I was there to pick up a large order. While I was waiting, I asked the locksmith, "Are any of these locks really any good?" He bet me $20 that he could open any of them within 5 minutes - my choice of lock. So I chose the "hardest looking" of them - I don't remember the brand, but it was expensive and looked very well made. He not only opened it (within two minutes), but had a key made in under five minutes. So, it was a key lock. How'd he do on combination locks? I was in the USAF, and theu used a type of combination padlock that was approved for protecting classified stuff. I don't know. This was a sample size of one; and it was a shop that sold locks for residential front doors. I have never seen a safe-style combination lock on a residential door. Have you? No, you've got a point here. (sometimes you see a combination on a keybox for a vacant house that's for sale.) Also, how impervious are those padlocks to brute force? How indestructable are the doors they were securing? The locks? Same as any other - I once ground through a shackle with a Dremel. I've seen locks torched off in seconds. If you've got the tools, you can do anything! :-) Didja ever see this (and yes, I know it's only a movie, but it's representative of things you could do if you really wanted to get into a safe)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7KVP...lpage#t=10 0s I haven't seen the thing yet - my browser doesn't render youtube very well, but your mentioning the issue made me think of Goldfinger with his laser. :-) Cheers! Rich |
#25
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On 2011-01-23, Ignoramus3188 wrote:
On 2011-01-23, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. [ ... ] really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. [ ... ] A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. [ ... ] Rangers, do you think that there are better locks, costing, say, $100, that are not so easy to pick? There are things which can be done to a standard pin-tumbler lock to make it more difficult to pick -- but certainly not impossible. The most common thing is "mushroom tumblers" (or "spool tumblers"), which look sort of like this (use a fixed pitch to view -- yes, Iggy, I know that you will anyway, but this is for others). +--+ +- | | | \ | +-----------+ | | | | | | +-----------+ | | | | / +--+ +- This is used instead of a plain cylinder. It can replace both the driver (the part just below the spring) and the part which the key actually lifts, with varying degrees of curvature on the right-hand end (as drawn). The driver would be closer to flat, while the part which contacts the key would be more rounded. The idea being that when the tension is applied, you wind up with the split between the plug and the body shifting into the turned down section, and trapping the pin so you can't get the actual point of join lifted to the right height. (Of course, this is weaker, and if someone drives a screwdriver blade into the lock and twists hard, it may well shear all the pins at the thin point -- especially if *all* the pins are of this type instead of being full cylinders. The Medeco brand locks have a somewhat more complex design, and are both pick resistant, and require a very special tool to duplicate the keys. (Instead of the grooves all being at right angles to the key blank, they are alternately tilted down to the right or left.) The Ace barrel locks (the kind found on vending machines) are quite difficult to pick as well, especially if fitted with mushroom tumblers -- but I don't think that you can find them in a format to mount in a door. But -- before going into all of this -- consider how strong everything around the lock is. For example, if there are glass panes beside the door, it is easy to break the glass and reach through to unlock from the inside. Or the typical door these days is a hollow core with a honeycomb of cardboard separating two thin wood strips, so it is fairly easy to break through that, too. For the glass beside the door situation -- consider a knuckle lock with cylinders on both sides of the door -- so you need a key to lock or unlock it from inside as well as outside. Then, if they break the window, there is still nothing for them to turn. But remember -- all of this will only slow down a sufficiently determined attacker. And yes, I have picked door locks for co-workers who locked themselves out. I typically would make the tools for the use from old bandsaw blades, accomplish the rescue, and then destroy the tools, just so I am not found walking around with a lock pick set. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#26
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:53:55 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Lock picking is a traditional interest and activity for MIT undergrads. Jeff Wisnea could elucidate if he might care to. |
#27
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
There are websites and videos/DVDs all about the level of (in)security that
common and sophisticated locks provide. MythBusters did a show where they defeated some very high-tech locks, including fingerprint verification locks. A secondary consideration of security would be the material the lock is mounted to. Soft pine or MDF door frames have no strength, and a good prybar can easily overcome the strength of those soft materials very easily with little noise. Many of the metalworking types here in RCM have the imagination, skill and equipment to fabricate long, heavy duty reinforcement plates of heavy gage steel to reinforce their doors and locking mechanisms. Many cheaply made door handsets with the lock integrated into the doorknob are easily defeated with force, a strong grip or tool that can be used to apply considerable torque can easily provide enough force to break the internal parts and provide a criminal with a quiet, easy entry. There are often easier ways to enter a secure area other than a secure door, in which the secure door may just provide an easy exit from the inside. The usage of the term security is a fallicy in most cases, in any area of our lives.. whether it's borders or neighborhoods, privacy, communication of all types, or places we live in or go to, even food, water or various commercial products (tylenol lacing 1982 and 1986). http://www.mallenbaker.net/csr/crisis02.html -- WB .......... "Don Foreman" wrote in message ... Lock picking is a traditional interest and activity for MIT undergrads. Jeff Wisnea could elucidate if he might care to. |
#28
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"Wild_Bill" writes:
MythBusters did a show where they defeated some very high-tech locks, including fingerprint verification locks. Matt Blaze, a systems security guru, ****ed off the locksmithing community by applying the same approaches to master keying systems and locks in general that he uses in analyzing networks. They regarded the knowledge as trade guild secrets, and he therefore was an infidel for revealing it. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On 2011-01-25, David Lesher wrote:
"Wild_Bill" writes: MythBusters did a show where they defeated some very high-tech locks, including fingerprint verification locks. Matt Blaze, a systems security guru, ****ed off the locksmithing community by applying the same approaches to master keying systems and locks in general that he uses in analyzing networks. They regarded the knowledge as trade guild secrets, and he therefore was an infidel for revealing it. I love Matt Blaze. He is my hero and I am subscribed to his blog, of which I am a faithful reader. I remember that article. i |
#30
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Jan 23, 1:42*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:53:55 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Lock picking is a traditional interest and activity for MIT undergrads. *Jeff Wisnea could elucidate if he might care to. One of my instructional sources was an MIT lockpicking guide. http://lockpickguide.com/support-fil...tolockpick.pdf |
#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
rangerssuck wrote:
One of my instructional sources was an MIT lockpicking guide. http://lockpickguide.com/support-fil...tolockpick.pdf I learned lockpicking at MIT about 20 years before that document was written. One of my friends took a locksmithing by mail course, so he would be able to find work after the revolution. |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 19:53:55 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck
wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. google "pick gun" & "key bumping" Lock picks are for people who enjoy doing it the hard wayr. H. |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
rangerssuck wrote:
I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. I tend to believe that many inteligent people find picking locks quite interesting. I was going to add mechanically inclined to that description but I have often heard that software types (hackers) like defeating locks also. Wes -- If it makes you feel better, your government fears you as much as you fear it. |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Jan 23, 6:37*pm, Wes wrote:
rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. I tend to believe that many inteligent people find picking locks quite interesting. * I was going to add mechanically inclined to that description but I have often heard that software types (hackers) like defeating locks also. Wes -- If it makes you feel better, your government fears you as much as you fear it I've thought about bump keys and pick guns, but there's something satisfying about doing it the old fashioned way. You have to visualize what's going on inside the lock. |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
In article
, rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em? I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major remodel in 2004. I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open. Don't know where that key is, either. Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back, the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there. It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation. Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave & smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . . Frank -- Here's some of my work: http://www.sharpbywarner.com |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"Frank J Warner" wrote in message
news:160220111908597203%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net... In article , rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em? I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major remodel in 2004. I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open. Don't know where that key is, either. Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back, the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there. It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation. Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave & smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . . Yeah, but you gotta watch them cops..... Regarding locks: cheap locks are pickable, Medeco and a few others are not. However, choose the way you want to get robbed: you'll need to hold on to the counter when you get them duped. -- EA Frank -- Here's some of my work: http://www.sharpbywarner.com |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
"Existential Angst" wrote in message
... "Frank J Warner" wrote in message news:160220111908597203%warnerf@veriSPAMMERSDIEzon .net... In article , rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em? I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major remodel in 2004. I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open. Don't know where that key is, either. Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back, the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there. It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation. Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave & smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . . Yeah, but you gotta watch them cops..... Regarding locks: cheap locks are pickable, Medeco and a few others are not. However, choose the way you want to get robbed: you'll need to hold on to the counter when you get them duped. Oh, but dats nuthin compared to losing yer Toyoter Prius key: cough up $500 fer a new one.... The key for my Honder **** is $100+. Shades of Wall Street, eh??? -- EA -- EA Frank -- Here's some of my work: http://www.sharpbywarner.com |
#38
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Feb 16, 10:28*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Regarding locks: *cheap locks are pickable, Medeco and a few others are not. No, Medeco and a few others are, maybe way more difficult to pick, but there are no locks (according to a couple of locksmiths I've spoken with) that are truly pick proof. None. |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
Frank J Warner wrote:
It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation. Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave & smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . . A few years ago, I was living in a second-floor apartment in San Pedro, CA. I had my bike locked to the stairway handrail. The bike lock was one of the ones with about a 5/16" steel cable. One morning, I came down to discover the bike gone and the cable cut - the cable strands were all splayed, as if they'd taken a hacksaw to it. Now I live in Whittier and have a Master lock and a length of 3/4" log chain. At night, I keep the bike inside. Cheers! Rich |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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While Iggy's talking about safes...
On Feb 16, 10:08*pm, Frank J Warner
wrote: In article , rangerssuck wrote: I thought now would be a good time to relate a story about locks. I've always had a passing interest in locks and lock picking, but it was just that - a passing interest. Until a few years ago when I picked up a rental video on lock picking. Holy crap, says I, It can't really be that easy, can it? So, I bought a cheap set of lock picks, and took a whack at it. It really was THAT easy. The 15 year old kid from down the street happend to stop by, and I showed him my new-found "skill." After I spent a couple of minutes explaining what goes on with the pins inside a lock cylinder, he proceeded to pick my front door lock. A long time ago, a locksmith told me, "Locks are to keep honest people honest. If a bad guy wants to get in, he's going to get in." After my brief experience with picking various locks, I believe him. Anyway, I thought y'all might like the story. Locks. Phhht! Who needs 'em? I've lived my house for 22 years and have never once locked my front door. I don't even know where the keys are. Not even after the major remodel in 2004. I have a padlock on my workshop door, but I think it's rusted open. Don't know where that key is, either. Went to Vegas for 5 days last month and left everything open, mainly so the neighbor kid could come in and feed the cat twice a day. Came back, the cat was fed, and all my stuff was still there. It's location, actually. I live next door to a sheriff's substation. Patrol cars coming and going at all hours of the day & night. They wave & smile as they go by. Some of you might not be so lucky . . . . Frank -- Here's some of my work:http://www.sharpbywarner.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Growing up, my father was a doctor, and he had his office in the house. We did not have keys for any of the doors. We'd go away on vacations and just leave the doors unlocked. There was never a problem. Things have changed. |
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