Well, d'uh. They don't want to perform useful instruction. Turn all
the kids into mindless drones, and control the world.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

"Stormin Mormon" on Mon, 14 Jun
2010 11:29:07 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Well, d'uh. They don't want to perform useful instruction. Turn all
the kids into mindless drones, and control the world.

it's what happened to them.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"Ignoramus1737" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-12, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus1737 wrote:

Appx. 22 years ago, as patr of my school curriculum, I underwent a
vocational class that culminated with me getting a lathe operator's
license.

I took industrial arts many years ago until a drunk driver wiped out
David Blume, my instructor, and his family. He managed to instill
an interest in using my brains and hands to make things before his
life was ended way too short.

You were one of the lucky ones who were exposed to this sort of stuff,
almost by accident.


wow just what I would have said...but about you. I barely got an education,
in high school. Nothing practical. not even home ec. As far as the other
classes, mere rudiments, enough to get you into teaching or nursing school
if you wanted to get a higher degree.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.




we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help us
figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.
It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving. I
asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a farther
goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.

"Ala" wrote in message
news

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.




we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help
us figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.
It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving. I
asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a
farther goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.

When and where did you attend high school?

I'm curious about regions of the country and education.

--
Ed Huntress

"mac" wrote in message
...


http://www.answers.com/topic/vocatio...on-act-of-1917
A Review of Federal Vocational-Education Legislation 1862-1963
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1475196

I finish my Apprenticeship as a machinist in the fifties. In 1972
after working more than 15 years in the trade, Philadelphia was
opening three dedicate Vocational plants. Test was given for all
craftspeople needed.
The Vocational legislation required that to teach Voc-Ed, 15 years in
a trade is required We would be hired to teach at the level of pay
that our years of work experience brought to the teaching position. We
receive a temporary certification with the promise that we would
enroll in the certifying college and complete the required courses in
10 years.
The industrial Art teachers and the unions hated this and use many
methods to get their members into the positions.
One of the classes that I took, an introduction to Voc-Ed, it was said
that prior to World War one, most of the craftsmen was born in Europe.
WW1 stop the flow and the Legislators felt that the way to train US
craftsmen was to use experience craftsperson.
The Union got their way and I was on the list as a sub for a few years
and was promoted on my night job and didn't follow through.
billcotton.com

This is a very intereting thread and finding all the comments fascinating.
It reminded me that earier in Obama's term, he held the job summit of which
we heard little about then or now. I watched commentary between attendees
and reporters. They said the single most obvious problem, complained of by
many, was that they had jobs to give but no one trained well enough to do
them. The jobs they were referring to - welding.

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

Indeed.

And the answer to the Q is:
Because everyone wants to be a fuknStockbroker.
Better to be the one doing the ****ing.



It's really said that every boy's and girl' goal now is money for nothin'.

The most curious part of it is the only skill it takes is salesmanship.
That really doesn't require higher education. I would challenge them to try
and explain the instruments they are selling, or the formulae used to create
the hedge strategies. They can't.

all they have a grasp of is marketing and advertising

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Ala" wrote in message
news

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.




we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help
us figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.
It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving. I
asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a
farther goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.

When and where did you attend high school?

I'm curious about regions of the country and education.

--


It was a girl's private school run by nuns on the East Coast. Nuns can't
teach you anything except what to do if you can't snag a husband. It wasn't
recently that I went to high school. Could be that today's nuns are more
sophisticated, but I doubt it.

"Ala" wrote in message
m...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Ala" wrote in message
news

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades
in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.




we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help
us figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.
It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so
bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving.
I asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a
farther goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.

When and where did you attend high school?

I'm curious about regions of the country and education.

--


It was a girl's private school run by nuns on the East Coast. Nuns can't
teach you anything except what to do if you can't snag a husband. It
wasn't recently that I went to high school. Could be that today's nuns
are more sophisticated, but I doubt it.

LOL! I think you're right about their basic orientation.

That's an interesting school background. We usually think of schools taught
by nuns as being very demanding. I attended Catholic elementary schools but
not high school. The nuns who taught me were demanding, but I guess that
isn't universal.

--
Ed Huntress

David Billington wrote in
:


I consider myself fortunate to have grown up in the US in the 1970s to
early 1980s as I had the opportunity to do many elective subjects such
as metal shop, wood shop, electronics, machining etc as well as
academic subjects. I live back in the home country of the UK now by
choice and having spoken to many people such opportunities weren't as
common in the UK to get such expeience. IIRC I started at around the
age of 12 in metal shop and electronics at Bennet Junior High School
in Manchester Connecticut and was also fortunate to do metal smithing
at Manchester High School under the late Jonathan Hewey RIP, and they
also had a proper machine shop set-up for those that may have wanted
to go into industry run by experienced instructors.

Unfortunately all of the equipment is now gone and has been replaced by
computer labs and either simulated experiences or tabletop machines. The
justification for the removal of full size machinery and equipment was
twofold, cost and effectiveness. It costs much more to run a metalworking
class using "real" machines and the associated materials than to use
tabletop equipment and machining wax or plastic. The same concepts are
held true for other traditional technology education programs (used to be
called industrial arts)where the emphasis is on simulated experiences or
the use of smaller models based on technology examples. The assumption is
that the "esential" concepts" being taught will be as effective using the
smaller, more conceptually based, equipment. It also reflects the
continued turning away from "vocationally oriented" instruction to a
"general concepts" approach.

In the case of Manchester High and Bennett Middle School, both have been
renovated and the shop space converted. Most of the incentive to do this
was based on personnel at the state level who would not fund new
equipment if it was not part of a "pre-engineering" curriculum which
emphasized critical thinking and theoretical design skills and de-
emphasized manipulative and applied skills. This approach reflects the
general national trends in technology instruction.

I find it very interesting that (in my opinion) the system that appears
to be closer to getting it right is the UK with an emphasis on Design and
Technology that relies heavily on paralleling commerical trends and
processes. The intent of this curriculum is to make students generally
ready for the world of work and to help them understand the processes and
attitudes that they should expect to find in situations they encounter
after leaving school.

So David, I think that you should consider going back to secondary
school, just so that we can compare the two. It would be very interesting
for the rest of us to see if you do better this time around.

Support from the rest of the group?

"Ala" wrote in message
...

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

Indeed.

And the answer to the Q is:
Because everyone wants to be a fuknStockbroker.
Better to be the one doing the ****ing.



It's really said that every boy's and girl' goal now is money for nothin'.

The most curious part of it is the only skill it takes is salesmanship.
That really doesn't require higher education. I would challenge them to
try and explain the instruments they are selling, or the formulae used to
create the hedge strategies. They can't.

all they have a grasp of is marketing and advertising

Right. They're a tough bunch, though, and floor traders until recently were
better off without much social refinement. Better for them to learn their
trade by stealing apples from street vendors and running from cops, than
studying business or finance.

Now that the financial executives are being drawn from the ranks of traders,
rather than from the analysts who used to be the ones elevated to the top,
the boardrooms must be something like a meeting of the Mafia, with thugs
wearing Armani suits and eating their caviar with marinara sauce and linen
napkins tucked into their collars while they pick their teeth. You can tell
that things have changed because some of them have to wear those lampshade
dog collars to keep them from licking their balls.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:21:53 -0400, "Ala"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.




we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help us
figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.
It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving. I
asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a farther
goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.


That would be cool not to have a counselor, all they did for me was
stick there nose in where it doesn't belong and screw everything up.
I went to 7 different schools in 12 years and they seem to test 10
times as much as they teach. I would read the book maybe 3-4 chapters
ahead and do most of the work for fun with nothing but scribble notes,
then never turn in home work, and then ace the tests. In one school
there where three of us A (test) students that sat together and day
after day we would double check with each other for those few
questions we where unsure of so we all had 100% correct and then
randomly change two to be wrong. The teacher would try to ridicule the
under achievers by calling out the scores as she handed them back, her
face was priceless trying glare through to the puzzle of how we got
the same score all the time, but from different questions. I had to
take a wood shop class, about all I learned was how the dominant males
got all the teachers time and tools and how us geeks gathered and did
other things. Same thing with sports.

Last weekend I was at a graduation party (they had around 28 in the
whole class) and was fascinated how some started hitting a volley ball
to each other in a circle. As time went by more and more would join
and they all played being very considerate of one another. It was so
alien to me, and drove home how really screwed up my childhood was.



Is Ala a moniker? I saw parts of a movie last night with that name in
it.

SW

Doc wrote:
David Billington wrote in
:



I consider myself fortunate to have grown up in the US in the 1970s to
early 1980s as I had the opportunity to do many elective subjects such
as metal shop, wood shop, electronics, machining etc as well as
academic subjects. I live back in the home country of the UK now by
choice and having spoken to many people such opportunities weren't as
common in the UK to get such expeience. IIRC I started at around the
age of 12 in metal shop and electronics at Bennet Junior High School
in Manchester Connecticut and was also fortunate to do metal smithing
at Manchester High School under the late Jonathan Hewey RIP, and they
also had a proper machine shop set-up for those that may have wanted
to go into industry run by experienced instructors.


Unfortunately all of the equipment is now gone and has been replaced by
computer labs and either simulated experiences or tabletop machines. The
justification for the removal of full size machinery and equipment was
twofold, cost and effectiveness. It costs much more to run a metalworking
class using "real" machines and the associated materials than to use
tabletop equipment and machining wax or plastic. The same concepts are
held true for other traditional technology education programs (used to be
called industrial arts)where the emphasis is on simulated experiences or
the use of smaller models based on technology examples. The assumption is
that the "esential" concepts" being taught will be as effective using the
smaller, more conceptually based, equipment. It also reflects the
continued turning away from "vocationally oriented" instruction to a
"general concepts" approach.

In the case of Manchester High and Bennett Middle School, both have been
renovated and the shop space converted. Most of the incentive to do this
was based on personnel at the state level who would not fund new
equipment if it was not part of a "pre-engineering" curriculum which
emphasized critical thinking and theoretical design skills and de-
emphasized manipulative and applied skills. This approach reflects the
general national trends in technology instruction.


My local technical college, where I spent a few years, has done similar.
All the machine shops and most, if not all, of the engineering related
workshops have gone now and been replaced by media studies centre, arts,
and various service industry training workshops. I suspect this largely
reflects the requirements of the local area, Bath UK, and the demise of
the manufacturing industry in the area over the last 30 years. No point
in training machinists if there are few jobs for them. I would imagine
training facilities exist in Bristol where the likes of British
Aerospace etc are based.

Any idea if the metalsmithing class is still running at Machester High?.
That has to be one of my favourite classes I did. I actually did it at
evening class there before entering high school.

I find it very interesting that (in my opinion) the system that appears
to be closer to getting it right is the UK with an emphasis on Design and
Technology that relies heavily on paralleling commerical trends and
processes. The intent of this curriculum is to make students generally
ready for the world of work and to help them understand the processes and
attitudes that they should expect to find in situations they encounter
after leaving school.

I think here that this depends on the view of what the purpose of school
is. I took the opportunity to do things I enjoyed such as metalwork,
metalsmithing etc to broaden my horizons, not just to train up for a
life working. I suppose though that such courses are not considered
essential and with financial constraint will be the first to go unless
they can really be justified.

So David, I think that you should consider going back to secondary
school, just so that we can compare the two. It would be very interesting
for the rest of us to see if you do better this time around.

I'm not going back to school, at least not that sort. In the end I did a
mechanical engineering degree then went on to get a job writing software
for the last 20 years.

Support from the rest of the group?

Sunworshipper wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 08:21:53 -0400, "Ala"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.




we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help us
figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.
It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving. I
asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a farther
goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.

That would be cool not to have a counselor, all they did for me was
stick there nose in where it doesn't belong and screw everything up.
I went to 7 different schools in 12 years and they seem to test 10
times as much as they teach. I would read the book maybe 3-4 chapters
ahead and do most of the work for fun with nothing but scribble notes,
then never turn in home work, and then ace the tests. In one school
there where three of us A (test) students that sat together and day
after day we would double check with each other for those few
questions we where unsure of so we all had 100% correct and then
randomly change two to be wrong. The teacher would try to ridicule the
under achievers by calling out the scores as she handed them back, her
face was priceless trying glare through to the puzzle of how we got
the same score all the time, but from different questions. I had to
take a wood shop class, about all I learned was how the dominant males
got all the teachers time and tools and how us geeks gathered and did
other things. Same thing with sports.


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


Last weekend I was at a graduation party (they had around 28 in the
whole class) and was fascinated how some started hitting a volley ball
to each other in a circle. As time went by more and more would join
and they all played being very considerate of one another. It was so
alien to me, and drove home how really screwed up my childhood was.

Is Ala a moniker? I saw parts of a movie last night with that name in
it.

SW


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Ala wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Al Dykes wrote:

In article
,
wrote:
When I was in school, these were every boy's favorite, and almost the
only useful education we got.

The Voc-Tech I attended mumble decades ago had a first-class 3 year
machine shop program. I'm told it's now a good computer CAD/CAM
course.

They also had college-track electronics and mechanical engineering
programs. The Mech students got several semesters in machine shop.
There was nothing like that for us Electrical majors.


I got two years of metal shop, three years of wood shop, two of
drafting and two of electronics in the seventh through twelfth grades in
the '60s.

The school councilors wanted me to take a different path, and kept
harping on "wasting your IQ". I didn't want to go to medical school or
law school. I wanted to work with my hands. To build things from
scratch. I still have my drafting table, and I've been out of school
for 40 years.



we didn't have a school counselor. We didn't really have anyone to help us
figure out how to get ahead in life after we graduated.


All they did was look for kids to send to college. If you tested
high enough they hounded you like a re-enlistment officer who was short
on his quota, hoping you'd give in. The other boys were directed to
shop classes, and they didn't want the two groups to mix. The girls
were either put in College prep classes, or secretarial and Home
Economics classes.

If i had listen to the councilors, I would have been bored to death.
Instead, I worked in electronics most of my life.


It was a terrible school. The curriculum was so easy and I was so bored.
My favorite time was when a teacher told me that I was underachieving. I
asked her given I had all As how that was possible if there wasn't a farther
goal post.
I wish I had been witty enough to say, yea well you are underteaching.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

I was very much a nerd..but one with an attitude. And an uncle who
taught me to fight. It was a very painful summer. But it helped.


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.

I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

I was very much a nerd..but one with an attitude. And an uncle who
taught me to fight. It was a very painful summer. But it helped.


I didn't like to fight, because I couldn't control my temper. I
wanted to kill when I got mad enough to fight, and I didn't want to kill
some loser just because they were stupid.

I had one moron steal something of mine, then brag that I couldn't
get it back. I knocked him into a Honey Locust tree. Then I reached in
through the sharp thorns and retrieved my property. The moron had
trouble sitting at school for weeks, while all the thorn holes in his
ass healed.

I had another wanabee bragging about how brave he was as he played
with the Tesla coil we built in our electronics shop. It was sitting on
a wood topped bench and he was pulling feeble little lavender arcs from
the side of the coil while bragging about how brave he was. Then, I
touched the ground wire (On the end of a six foot wood pole) to a full
4' * 10' sheet of steel that was laying on the bare concrete floor by
the bench. A 1/4" blue arc hit his middle finger. He hit a note that
only dogs could hear, then he danced all over the shop for about 15
minutes while alternating between cursing and screaming like a little
girl.

He'd threatened me a couple times and he knew who did it, but he knew
better than to try to get even. I didn't care that he was on the
football team, or that they would lose a few games if he got in my way.
He knew that I knew where he lived. It was only 50 feet from my house,
on the other side of our family's double driveway.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Jun 13, 4:18*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

Ed, what a load of absolute rubbish! - you stirring the Wingers
again? Secondary (High) Schools EXISTED to give people the skills to
earn a living - or at least indicate that here was someone worth to be
an apprentice, already done most of the idiot things......


Something to be aware of in this subject is what happened to industrial arts
teaching as far back as the late 1800s. The initial push for shop classes
was NOT to teach kids the skills they'd need for jobs in industry. It was to
"build an appreciation" for "industriousness," and to provide "cultural
industrial education" as part of a broad curriculum. In other words, it
wasn't actually about preparation for industry; it was the late-18th century
version of liberal arts and preparation for Renaissance Men.

Cough Splutter - did you extract all this from Thoreau?


There always was a conflict in the teaching between those educators who saw
it as a "cultural" issue and those who wanted to train kids for industrial
jobs. Where shop classes were required (two schools I attended), it had its
roots in the cultural aspect. Where the classes were in-depth and closely
aligned with local industrial needs, it was a curriculum based on vocational
training. My uncle, who was the department head for a local school system in
industrial arts and head of the state Industrial Arts Education Association,
was one of the latter. He had his kids go on field trips to local industries
at least once every two weeks. They had aluminum and brass foundries,
injection molding, quality lathes and mills, and so on. Because copper wire
drawing was an important industry here, he had them learn how to make
diamond drawing dies in class. Making ceramic fixtures was another big local
industry; they had a ceramics class that was mostly about making sweep molds
for commercial manufacture of sinks, tubs, toilets, etc. They placed a LOT
of kids in those jobs.

And now, all dead trades, or dying. Or done cheaper in XXXXX.


In my area, the vocational training aspect has been separated into special
vo-tech high schools. There are at least three of them in my county; I took
welding classes in one of them. I toured the place and talked to the
teachers. They're into the vocational training all the way. They have good
equipment, including CNC machines, professional-style auto shop equipment,
and so on. They also teach at levels through the first two years of college,
providing specialty certificates that are almost equivalent to an
Associate's degree.

So when we bemoan the lack of shop classes, keep in mind that most of them
were never intended to train kids for industrial jobs.

Why else did they run it then - Cultural Enlightenment?

They might spark an
interest and give some kids a relief from the pure academics. I always
looked forward to shop because it gave me a chance to do something with my
hands that was really satisfying. That probably could be described as the
"cultural industrial arts" outcome. I don't recall that it made me
particularly industrious. d8-)

Nope. Just plain WRONG. You usually took shop if you were not smart
enough to do the academic route, university etc etc. Mature age doing
a Short Course on Space Shuttle Design? - does that rate?

From this time, this distance, it looks rosy and Romantic. It wasn't,
it was how people got the skills to earn a living.


Now the schools are in a dilemma, because they've always been ambivalent
about the cultural/vocational dichotomy, and a lack of manufacturing jobs
has taken away much of the incentive to justify their programs with the
vocational issue. That's been shucked off to the specialty high schools in
areas like mine. The "cultural industrial arts" have fallen victim NOT to
political bias, unless you consider teaching the "basics" and the pressure
of "No Child Left Behind" to teach little more than reading, writing, and
math to be "political." I think we see pressure for it from both sides of
the political spectrum.

There is little support in most communities to fund industrial arts
education, except in the vo-tech specialty schools. There is *tremendous*
pressure for kids to score higher on national math and English tests. And
that's why we're where we are today.

Rubbish. Perhaps its because of the perverse set of economic rules we
follow - buy from XXXXX and make more money than employing people. Go
figure. Dont need trade jobs, so why train them?

And, I can quote my (now 2nd ) trade, which is obsolete. Consumer
electronics tech - hey, you want money to fix it? - I can buy another
one for $50. And hes right. 20 years ago, could make a decent living.
All gone, like so many other trades and even professions.....one CNC
machine replaces how many manual machinists, all of different skill
levels, attitude, inclination, hung over Monday slack on Friday
afternoon, couldn't work to tolerance, - think about how they do
things now.

--
Ed Huntress

Andrew VK3BFA.

David Billington wrote in
:



Any idea if the metalsmithing class is still running at Machester
High?. That has to be one of my favourite classes I did. I actually
did it at evening class there before entering high school.
So David, I think that you should consider going back to secondary
school, just so that we can compare the two. It would be very
interesting for the rest of us to see if you do better this time
around.

My understanding is that all the traditional shops at Manchester High
were dismantled and replaced with technology education programs and
materials. This typically means fewer of the traditional hands-on project
work and more emphasis on things like mass production projects and
conceptual learning using models and reduced scale examples. I left
Manchester in 1994, although I remain in touch with friends in the area,
and worked in the area for 2000-2001, as a professor of Technology
Education at Central Conn. State Univ. (hence the reason for a strong
interest in this topic) and I do not remember anything hands on being
offered in the adult education programs in Manchester. Even the Vo-Tech,
Cheney Tech, was not offering anything other than the formal programs
typical of the Vo-Tech offerings in Connecticut at that time. Of course
times in Connecticut were not particularly good at that time and many of
the long time manufacturing companies were on the way out.

I'm not going back to school, at least not that sort. In the end I did
a mechanical engineering degree then went on to get a job writing
software for the last 20 years.

What, not willing to suffer the joy of attending high school over again?
It would be a great intellectual exercise and would provide geat
entertain... um.. educational guidance for the rest of the group. Think
of repeating the fun you had from ages 13-17 over again. What an
opportunity!

What kind of software are you writing? I worked for a CADD software
company (CADKEY) for five years prior to going into the university
environment. Interestingly, it was located in Manchester for most of that
time.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)


I was very much a nerd..but one with an attitude. And an uncle who
taught me to fight. It was a very painful summer. But it helped.


Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Jun 14, 4:51*pm, David Billington
wrote:
...
I consider myself fortunate to have grown up in the US in the 1970s to
early 1980s as I had the opportunity to do many elective subjects such
as metal shop, wood shop, electronics, machining etc as well as academic
subjects. I live back in the home country of the UK now by choice and
having spoken to many people such opportunities weren't as common in the
UK to get such expeience. ...

Alistair Cooke on the "Two Cultures" in Britain versus America:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ca/1905095.stm

jsw

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.

I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Hay-Soose Sa-Vase.

David

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure. Quite the
contrast to his most infamous pity party, wherein he describes giving
his wife's boyfriend a stern talking-to. Which going by some of his
other threats probably included lines like "my hammer and nails are at
the pawn shop right now, but if you bring me some I'll teach you a
lesson".

Wayne

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

Quite the
contrast to his most infamous pity party, wherein he describes giving
his wife's boyfriend a stern talking-to. Which going by some of his
other threats probably included lines like "my hammer and nails are at
the pawn shop right now, but if you bring me some I'll teach you a
lesson".

Or, "How do you feel about resurrection?"

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.

i

Quite the
contrast to his most infamous pity party, wherein he describes giving
his wife's boyfriend a stern talking-to. Which going by some of his
other threats probably included lines like "my hammer and nails are at
the pawn shop right now, but if you bring me some I'll teach you a
lesson".

Or, "How do you feel about resurrection?"

"Ignoramus27711" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet
in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.

i

"Jesus" is a common name for male hispanics. Its pronunciation sounds like
"Hay-Soose" in English.

Aside from Gunner's victim, Jesus is the most famous person in history to
have his hand nailed to a piece of wood.

Gunner's stories are best appreciated in a certain ecclesiastical sense...


Quite the
contrast to his most infamous pity party, wherein he describes giving
his wife's boyfriend a stern talking-to. Which going by some of his
other threats probably included lines like "my hammer and nails are at
the pawn shop right now, but if you bring me some I'll teach you a
lesson".

Or, "How do you feel about resurrection?"

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
...well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

i

Quite the
contrast to his most infamous pity party, wherein he describes giving
his wife's boyfriend a stern talking-to. Which going by some of his
other threats probably included lines like "my hammer and nails are at
the pawn shop right now, but if you bring me some I'll teach you a
lesson".

Or, "How do you feel about resurrection?"


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet
in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood
shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
..well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 11:53:53 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"Jesus" is a common name for male hispanics. Its pronunciation sounds like
"Hay-Soose" in English.

Aside from Gunner's victim, Jesus is the most famous person in history to
have his hand nailed to a piece of wood.

Gunner's stories are best appreciated in a certain ecclesiastical sense...

Or with Forrest Gump in mind.

--
Ned Simmons

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:fmkg16tl0mj6i933q3mlgs06q7b9m0njku@4ax. com...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet
in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood
shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
..well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Wayne

On 2010-06-16, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:fmkg16tl0mj6i933q3mlgs06q7b9m0njku@4ax .com...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet
in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood
shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
..well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Yes, the logistics of it seem difficult.

Maybe he used a nail gun?

i

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:




Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read
Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy
Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Wayne


in like 7th grade (wood)shop i had the resident tough-nut punk "bad"
kid take the bellows (from the sand casting area), pack the end with
casting sand and BLOW it into my eyes. i don't believe he got in
trouble either. me, as a kid i was trained to keep my mouth shut and
take abuse.

b.w.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:59:17 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:fmkg16tl0mj6i933q3mlgs06q7b9m0njku@4a x.com...

I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
..well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Yes, the logistics of it seem difficult.

Oh, don't worry, he'll elaborate as much as it takes for everyone to
tire of laughing at the story.

Maybe he used a nail gun?

40 years ago in shop class? About as likely as his quarter/half/three
quarter/several "acreage". His fantasy life is as rich as his real
life is poor.

Wayne

On 2010-06-17, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:59:17 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:fmkg16tl0mj6i933q3mlgs06q7b9m0njku@4 ax.com...

I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
..well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Yes, the logistics of it seem difficult.

Oh, don't worry, he'll elaborate as much as it takes for everyone to
tire of laughing at the story.

Maybe he used a nail gun?

40 years ago in shop class? About as likely as his quarter/half/three
quarter/several "acreage". His fantasy life is as rich as his real
life is poor.

Wayne


I am also thinking, how did the guy free himself, did not tell anyone,
and did not need medical attention?

Ignoramus27711 wrote:

I am also thinking, how did the guy free himself, did not tell anyone,
and did not need medical attention?


A nail wouldn't have to go through a bone or muscle to keep someone
from moving. It wouldn't even have to be a large nail. A lot of tools
can remove a nail, if the head isn't buried. These days a small tube of
crazy glue would be better. No permanent damage, and not easy to remove
in a hurry.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 13:59:17 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:44:29 -0500, Ignoramus27711
wrote:

On 2010-06-16, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:44:23 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:fmkg16tl0mj6i933q3mlgs06q7b9m0njku@4a x.com...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:28:31 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet
in
wood shop. I took it away from him. He tried to take it back but he
ended up with a 'very' sore wrist. Then he tried to punch me. I
blocked his swing, and cut his face with my class ring. Someone had
told the idiot that 'Nerds' were easy prey. ;-)

All I wanted to do was finsh my project. I only took HS wood
shop,
because I had already taken every other shop class availible.


I had a similar problem. I literally nailed the assholes hand to the
bench and told him Id hunt him down and kill him if he told the
teacher
who had done it.

His name wasn't Hay-Soose by any chance, was it? d8-)

Jeez, another exciting gummer whoppe...er, adventure.

Somewhere there's a guy who attacks people with something similar to a
wood
mallet and who has a nail-hole scar in his hand. Watch out for him, he's
trouble. d8-)

I do not understand what are you guys talking about.


He is blithering about my having nailed Don Springs hand to the bench in
shop class. He doesnt believe it.

Shrug.

Given the really wierd things he does believe...one has to assume he is
..well...not mentally healthy.

Shrug

Gunner

Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Yes, the logistics of it seem difficult.

Maybe he used a nail gun?

i

Actually, as I recall, I punched him hard! in the kidney and when he
flopped over the bench, I picked up his arm, kneeled on it, and drove a
16p nail through the backside of his hand, palm down. I did pick a soft
spot between the bones..shrug. One hammer blow. I could swing a hammer
pretty well in those days. Helped Dad build our house. Got pretty good
with a hammer. Now if I had missed the nail..I would have done far more
damage. Shrug

Then I had a little talk with him, laid the hammer next to him on the
bench and walked away.

Shrug. But that was years ago. Now Im simply a harmless lovable
fuzzball. Really.

Warm and fuzzy sort of fellow.

Everyone knows this. You didnt get the memo?

Gunner, typing this with 2 cats in his lap. Warm, furry and purring
cats.



One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:31:55 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Ignoramus27711 wrote:

I am also thinking, how did the guy free himself, did not tell anyone,
and did not need medical attention?


A nail wouldn't have to go through a bone or muscle to keep someone
from moving. It wouldn't even have to be a large nail. A lot of tools
can remove a nail, if the head isn't buried. These days a small tube of
crazy glue would be better. No permanent damage, and not easy to remove
in a hurry.


And nails dont go impossibly deep in the old oak work benches. Just an
inch or so. Course..they can be a bitch to get out. Shrug

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:50:37 -0500, "William Wixon"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:32:58 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:




Oh, heck, Gunner, we believe you. As I suggested, I've read
Ecclesiastes,
too, and I appreciate a good aphorism as much as the next guy.

I figure you've picked up your literary style from the Holy
Handloaders for
Buddha and Discount House of Pistol Primers. d8-)

Did he ask the guy to hold the nail while he pounded it? Or did he
hold the guy's hand down with one hand, while he held the nail with
his other hand, and swung the hammer with his third hand? Somebody
should make a movie about this school he went to, where there are
bullies who one day beat up folks, and the next stand still to get
their hands nailed to benches by nerdy 4H types. No, not what you
think, the one that's for hard-up tellers of humiliating harebrained
hogwash.

Wayne


in like 7th grade (wood)shop i had the resident tough-nut punk "bad"
kid take the bellows (from the sand casting area), pack the end with
casting sand and BLOW it into my eyes. i don't believe he got in
trouble either. me, as a kid i was trained to keep my mouth shut and
take abuse.

b.w.



Had the shop bully get his just deserts. Kid spilled turpentine on his
pants legs, and another victim,,,,,err... kid filled the bricks on the
welding bench with a nice slow flow of actylene, moments before the
bully fired up the torch and approached the bench. I understand the
smell of melting rayon mixed with the smell of burning pork is pretty
ugly.

Kid was out of class for the rest of the year, for some reason. When he
came back the next year..he was much different, and moved a lot slower
oddly enough..
He never did run real good after he came back, and you know..he stopped
picking on other kids.

Sometimes it really pays to, at the least..get along with people.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"David Billington" wrote in message
...

I'm not going back to school, at least not that sort. In the end I did a
mechanical engineering degree then went on to get a job writing software
for the last 20 years.


If I went back, this is what I'd like to study. It's relevant too, for the
younger stock brokers I was complaining about who don't seem to understand a
thing about people or the math behind what they are selling

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2010...ctingthefuture

The Chicago-based DePaul University will offer what it says is the nation's
first master's degree in predictive analysis, the school announced on
Wednesday in conjunction with IBM, which will provide resources for the
program

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...


I had one of the 'Alpha males' try to attack me with a wood mallet in
wood shop. I took it away from him.

someone alphabetizes just like me