On Jun 13, 4:18*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

Ed, what a load of absolute rubbish! - you stirring the Wingers
again? Secondary (High) Schools EXISTED to give people the skills to
earn a living - or at least indicate that here was someone worth to be
an apprentice, already done most of the idiot things......


Something to be aware of in this subject is what happened to industrial arts
teaching as far back as the late 1800s. The initial push for shop classes
was NOT to teach kids the skills they'd need for jobs in industry. It was to
"build an appreciation" for "industriousness," and to provide "cultural
industrial education" as part of a broad curriculum. In other words, it
wasn't actually about preparation for industry; it was the late-18th century
version of liberal arts and preparation for Renaissance Men.

Cough Splutter - did you extract all this from Thoreau?


There always was a conflict in the teaching between those educators who saw
it as a "cultural" issue and those who wanted to train kids for industrial
jobs. Where shop classes were required (two schools I attended), it had its
roots in the cultural aspect. Where the classes were in-depth and closely
aligned with local industrial needs, it was a curriculum based on vocational
training. My uncle, who was the department head for a local school system in
industrial arts and head of the state Industrial Arts Education Association,
was one of the latter. He had his kids go on field trips to local industries
at least once every two weeks. They had aluminum and brass foundries,
injection molding, quality lathes and mills, and so on. Because copper wire
drawing was an important industry here, he had them learn how to make
diamond drawing dies in class. Making ceramic fixtures was another big local
industry; they had a ceramics class that was mostly about making sweep molds
for commercial manufacture of sinks, tubs, toilets, etc. They placed a LOT
of kids in those jobs.

And now, all dead trades, or dying. Or done cheaper in XXXXX.


In my area, the vocational training aspect has been separated into special
vo-tech high schools. There are at least three of them in my county; I took
welding classes in one of them. I toured the place and talked to the
teachers. They're into the vocational training all the way. They have good
equipment, including CNC machines, professional-style auto shop equipment,
and so on. They also teach at levels through the first two years of college,
providing specialty certificates that are almost equivalent to an
Associate's degree.

So when we bemoan the lack of shop classes, keep in mind that most of them
were never intended to train kids for industrial jobs.

Why else did they run it then - Cultural Enlightenment?

They might spark an
interest and give some kids a relief from the pure academics. I always
looked forward to shop because it gave me a chance to do something with my
hands that was really satisfying. That probably could be described as the
"cultural industrial arts" outcome. I don't recall that it made me
particularly industrious. d8-)

Nope. Just plain WRONG. You usually took shop if you were not smart
enough to do the academic route, university etc etc. Mature age doing
a Short Course on Space Shuttle Design? - does that rate?

From this time, this distance, it looks rosy and Romantic. It wasn't,
it was how people got the skills to earn a living.


Now the schools are in a dilemma, because they've always been ambivalent
about the cultural/vocational dichotomy, and a lack of manufacturing jobs
has taken away much of the incentive to justify their programs with the
vocational issue. That's been shucked off to the specialty high schools in
areas like mine. The "cultural industrial arts" have fallen victim NOT to
political bias, unless you consider teaching the "basics" and the pressure
of "No Child Left Behind" to teach little more than reading, writing, and
math to be "political." I think we see pressure for it from both sides of
the political spectrum.

There is little support in most communities to fund industrial arts
education, except in the vo-tech specialty schools. There is *tremendous*
pressure for kids to score higher on national math and English tests. And
that's why we're where we are today.

Rubbish. Perhaps its because of the perverse set of economic rules we
follow - buy from XXXXX and make more money than employing people. Go
figure. Dont need trade jobs, so why train them?

And, I can quote my (now 2nd ) trade, which is obsolete. Consumer
electronics tech - hey, you want money to fix it? - I can buy another
one for $50. And hes right. 20 years ago, could make a decent living.
All gone, like so many other trades and even professions.....one CNC
machine replaces how many manual machinists, all of different skill
levels, attitude, inclination, hung over Monday slack on Friday
afternoon, couldn't work to tolerance, - think about how they do
things now.

--
Ed Huntress

Andrew VK3BFA.