*Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.

I have a Phase II piston type from Enco (on sale). I've had to file
one genuine Aloris morse taper holder slightly to get it on the
dovetail, but other than that, no issues--I've not had any trouble
with random import holders off ebay. Any time I've had chatter, it's
always ended up being in the carriage or compound, not the toolpost.

Looking at the auction, he used a stock photo, not one of the actual
item. That usually makes me wary, but using the _wrong_ stock photo
gets me fully on my guard immediately, makes me wonder if he's
actually got any to sell at all, or if he's just drop-shipping from
some other retailer (for example, it's common to see stuff listed from
HF for $10 over their price) or just scamming outright. A 98.2
feedback isn't much to write home about, especially after only 699
auctions--I'd walk away just from that. Lots of dings for late
shipment and poor communication. Personally, I think I'd keep
looking, especially when there's stuff like items 270414954729 or
330434576690 out there.

CDCOtools.com has a no-name BXA piston style for under a c-note. Enco
currently has Phase II on sale, in both piston and wedge--and will
actually support you after the sale.

--Glenn Lyford

"Glenn Lyford" wrote in message
...
Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.

I have a Phase II piston type from Enco (on sale). I've had to file
one genuine Aloris morse taper holder slightly to get it on the
dovetail, but other than that, no issues--I've not had any trouble
with random import holders off ebay. Any time I've had chatter, it's
always ended up being in the carriage or compound, not the toolpost.

Looking at the auction, he used a stock photo, not one of the actual
item. That usually makes me wary, but using the _wrong_ stock photo
gets me fully on my guard immediately, makes me wonder if he's
actually got any to sell at all, or if he's just drop-shipping from
some other retailer (for example, it's common to see stuff listed from
HF for $10 over their price) or just scamming outright. A 98.2
feedback isn't much to write home about, especially after only 699
auctions--I'd walk away just from that. Lots of dings for late
shipment and poor communication. Personally, I think I'd keep
looking, especially when there's stuff like items 270414954729 or
330434576690 out there.

CDCOtools.com has a no-name BXA piston style for under a c-note. Enco
currently has Phase II on sale, in both piston and wedge--and will
actually support you after the sale.

--Glenn Lyford

I sold a BXA piston type holder, real Aloris, for a little over $100 a few
years back, and bought a wedge type for about $50 more - if you are patient
you can get the real thing at an OK price, particularly in a used set with a
bunch of holders - and even more particularly if the auction starting price
is high, or the BIN is about right

On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Lyford
wrote:

*Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.


A 98.2
feedback isn't much to write home about, especially after only 699
auctions--I'd walk away just from that. Lots of dings for late
shipment and poor communication. Personally, I think I'd keep
looking, especially when there's stuff like items 270414954729 or
330434576690 out there.

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK. I guess I"m
the guinea pig. I'll let you guys know what I think when I've had a
chance to use it. Unfortunately, I've never owned an Aloris so I
don't have the gold standard for comparison.

RWL

On May 19, 10:47*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Lyford

wrote:
*Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.

*A 98.2
feedback isn't much to write home about, especially after only 699
auctions--I'd walk away just from that. *Lots of dings for late
shipment and poor communication. *Personally, I think I'd keep
looking, especially when there's stuff like items 270414954729 or
330434576690 out there.

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. *It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK. *I guess I"m
the guinea pig. *I'll let you guys know what I think when I've had a
chance to use it. *Unfortunately, I've never owned an Aloris so I
don't have the gold standard for comparison.

RWL

Did you mean "Discount_Machine"? I have a lot of items from SHARS.
(Including the AXA toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...Wedge_Type_111

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Searcher7 wrote:
On May 19, 10:47 pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Lyford

wrote:
Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.
A 98.2
feedback isn't much to write home about, especially after only 699
auctions--I'd walk away just from that. Lots of dings for late
shipment and poor communication. Personally, I think I'd keep
looking, especially when there's stuff like items 270414954729 or
330434576690 out there.
I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK. I guess I"m
the guinea pig. I'll let you guys know what I think when I've had a
chance to use it. Unfortunately, I've never owned an Aloris so I
don't have the gold standard for comparison.

RWL

Did you mean "Discount_Machine"? I have a lot of items from SHARS.
(Including the AXA toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...Wedge_Type_111

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I've bought from Shars, as wells a HH and CDCO.
All were good experiences, no drama.

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. *It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK.

Glad that helped. I'd be curious to see your evaluation once it
arrives.

--Glenn Lyford

On 2010-05-20, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 19, 10:47*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Lyford

wrote:
*Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.

[ ... ]

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. *It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK. *I guess I"m
the guinea pig. *I'll let you guys know what I think when I've had a
chance to use it. *Unfortunately, I've never owned an Aloris so I
don't have the gold standard for comparison.

[ ... ]

Did you mean "Discount_Machine"? I have a lot of items from SHARS.
(Including the AXA toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...Wedge_Type_111

Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 20, 6:31*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-20, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 19, 10:47*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Lyford

wrote:
*Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.

* * * * [ ... ]

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. *It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK. *I guess I"m
the guinea pig. *I'll let you guys know what I think when I've had a
chance to use it. *Unfortunately, I've never owned an Aloris so I
don't have the gold standard for comparison.

* * * * [ ... ]

Did you mean "Discount_Machine"? I have a lot of items from SHARS.
(Including the AXA toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...ol_Post_Set_We...

* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic: http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...Toolpostb.jpg).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars


RWL

Did you mean "Discount_Machine"? I have a lot of items from SHARS.
(Including the AXA toolpost).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Oops. You're right. It was Discount Machine.

RWL

* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.


The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic: http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...Toolpostb.jpg).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I downloaded the photo and saved it to my computer. It needed to be
lightened in order to see what I think you're talking about. It looks
like there's a screw head on the underside of the wedge. Is that what
you're talking about? If so, I'll check mine when it arrives. It
shipped today from wherever Discount Machine is located.

RWL

On May 20, 10:41*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.
The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic:http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ls/?action...).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I downloaded the photo and saved it to my computer. *It needed to be
lightened in order to see what I think you're talking about. *It looks
like there's a screw head on the underside of the wedge. *Is that what
you're talking about? *If so, I'll check mine when it arrives. *It
shipped today from wherever Discount Machine is located.

RWL

Yes. that's the screw. I assume it is there for a reason. It is
definitely not loose.

Also I have no problem putting on any of the included toolholders.
When I do, the range of the approximate 180 degree swing of the
locking bar becomes a 90 degree swing between locked and unlocked when
a toolholder is attached.

But the genuine Aloris AXA12N toolholder I have will only fit on one
of the two sides. I thought it was because the locking bar was in the
way, which it is. But even when I open the wedge completely and then
unscrew the locking bar the Aloris toolholder still will not fit down
on that side. ?!?

And when on the side it does fit on the swing distance of the locking
bar between locked and unlocked is only about 10 to 15 degrees.(Though
I don't know how important that is).

Milling the Aloris holder would increase that swing range and allow
the toolholder to fit on *both* sides *if* I unscrew the locking bar.
(Sigh).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
On May 20, 10:41 pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. Re-post the links to the photo which shows
the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

Good Luck,
DoN.
The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic:http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ls/?action...).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I downloaded the photo and saved it to my computer. It needed to be
lightened in order to see what I think you're talking about. It looks
like there's a screw head on the underside of the wedge. Is that what
you're talking about? If so, I'll check mine when it arrives. It
shipped today from wherever Discount Machine is located.

RWL

Yes. that's the screw. I assume it is there for a reason. It is
definitely not loose.

Also I have no problem putting on any of the included toolholders.
When I do, the range of the approximate 180 degree swing of the
locking bar becomes a 90 degree swing between locked and unlocked when
a toolholder is attached.

But the genuine Aloris AXA12N toolholder I have will only fit on one
of the two sides. I thought it was because the locking bar was in the
way, which it is. But even when I open the wedge completely and then
unscrew the locking bar the Aloris toolholder still will not fit down
on that side. ?!?

And when on the side it does fit on the swing distance of the locking
bar between locked and unlocked is only about 10 to 15 degrees.(Though
I don't know how important that is).

Milling the Aloris holder would increase that swing range and allow
the toolholder to fit on *both* sides *if* I unscrew the locking bar.
(Sigh).

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

FWIW, I found that the Aloris BX and BXA are not compatible

On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 20, 6:31*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

[ ... ]

The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic: http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...Toolpostb.jpg).

Download it and use whatever tools your computer offers to
lighten the image. All of his images are too dark to clearly see
details. I boost the gamma to 1.5 or 2.0 to get a good view of the
screw.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
Searcher7 wrote:

On May 20, 6:31*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-20, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 19, 10:47*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 06:48:48 -0700 (PDT), Glenn Lyford

wrote:
*Has anybody had a bad
experience with the import knock-offs other than that the screws on
the individual tool holders need to be replaced.

* * * * [ ... ]

I took the plunge and ordered the one from Discount_Tools / Shars
since the price was comparable and the feedback was 99.8 and he'd sold
61 of them previously. *It also stuck in the back of my mind that in
the past someone had mentioned that Shars stuff was OK. *I guess I"m
the guinea pig. *I'll let you guys know what I think when I've had a
chance to use it. *Unfortunately, I've never owned an Aloris so I
don't have the gold standard for comparison.

* * * * [ ... ]

Did you mean "Discount_Machine"? I have a lot of items from SHARS.
(Including the AXA toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...ol_Post_Set_We...

* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C.
|http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic:
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ction=view&cur
rent=Aloris12NonToolpostb.jpg).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

The picture was hard to interpret, but it does appear that things are gummed up
with cosmoline or the like. Paint thinner on a rag will take the cosmoline off.
Be sure to get down into the V-corners of the dovetails on both holders and
toolpost. Dry with paper towels.

Joe Gwinn

On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 20, 10:41*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:

[ ... ]

Yes. that's the screw. I assume it is there for a reason. It is
definitely not loose.

Also I have no problem putting on any of the included toolholders.
When I do, the range of the approximate 180 degree swing of the
locking bar becomes a 90 degree swing between locked and unlocked when
a toolholder is attached.

O.K. That is reasonable. But based on what you say later in
this article, I find myself wondering whether you have checked the
locking angle with the same holder in *both* stations.

But the genuine Aloris AXA12N toolholder I have will only fit on one
of the two sides. I thought it was because the locking bar was in the
way, which it is. But even when I open the wedge completely and then
unscrew the locking bar the Aloris toolholder still will not fit down
on that side. ?!?

This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.

And when on the side it does fit on the swing distance of the locking
bar between locked and unlocked is only about 10 to 15 degrees.(Though
I don't know how important that is).

Given the starting angle, I consider it quite important, as the
lever will be over the tailstock -- and perhaps hitting a drill chuck or
live center mounted in it.

Ideally, the unlocked position should be something like 3:00
o'clock (parallel to the bed, pointing towards the tailstock end of the
bed), and the locked position should be with the lever pointing out at
the operator.

Milling the Aloris holder would increase that swing range and allow
the toolholder to fit on *both* sides *if* I unscrew the locking bar.
(Sigh).

And -- this would have to be repeated for every genuine Aloris
holder which you subsequently get -- and all of the better clones as
well.

Now -- if you get different locking angles for a supplied holder
depending on what station it is on, I believe that one of the wedges is
too far down.

If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):

______________
( ) \ / ( )
________\ /_______

(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.

Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).

The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.

Now -- just for the fun of it, do the same kind of measurement
*inside* the dovetails on both the supplied holders and the genuine
Aloris. I suspect that you will find a somewhat wider measurement on
the supplied holders based on your fit experiments.

None of the photos show your post from the needed angle. Look
at the toolpost diagonally from the corner between the two dovetails, so
you can see both wedges at the same time -- ideally with the viewpoint
at a level about half-way up the toolpost.

If you can easily see that one wedge is higher than the other,
you have one started on the wrong thread -- an assembly problem at the
factory. You *can* go back to the vendor and see if he can supply you
with a replacement one.

But what *I* personally would do is to disassemble the toolpost
to the point of removing the wedges (I described how to do this in an
earlier article today) and re-installing them so you get both starting
at the same time, and so the lever angle winds up more reasonable.

Note that if you do this, you will probably void the warranty,
so if this is important to you, try the vendor route first.

And if it turns out that the screw is not present in others, it
might be that the screw caused the wedges to be put in with this offset.

It might help to know how these work internally:

1) The lever turns a cylinder inside the body of the toolpost
which has a multi-start thread on its outside diameter.

2) The wedges have partial mating threads on the inside, so
when the lever turns the cylinder, the wedges move up and down.

3) The wedges move in contact with an angled surface which causes
them to increase or decrease the width of the dovetail as they
move down or up.

Since the thread is multi-start, it is possible to get the two
wedges started out of step, so one remains higher than the other. And
-- it is also possible to remove the wedges and re-start them so both
move at the same height.

If the wedges are not at different heights, but the dovetails
measure significantly different widths, the cure would be to use a
proper dovetail mill to narrow the one which is giving the problems.
This problem would *certainly* call for a vendor replacement as the
first approach.

And if it comes to a choice between a proper fit for the
supplied holders or a proper fit for the Genuine Aloris holders, I would
go for the latter as this would increase the number of holders available
through surplus and eBay channels.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Thu, 20 May 2010 22:41:41 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:



* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.


The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic: http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...Toolpostb.jpg).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I downloaded the photo and saved it to my computer. It needed to be
lightened in order to see what I think you're talking about. It looks
like there's a screw head on the underside of the wedge. Is that what
you're talking about? If so, I'll check mine when it arrives. It
shipped today from wherever Discount Machine is located.

RWL

The toolpost arrived today (Friday) here in central PA. There is no
screw on the bottom of either of my wedges.

It has Shars imprinted on the block. I'll take photos of it in the
next couple of days and post them so you can compare to an Aloris.

RWL

On 2010-05-22, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2010 22:41:41 -0400, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at
PTD dot NET wrote:



* * * * Hmm ... this is perhaps a chance to see whether other of this
brand of Wedge style toolpost also have the screw on the bottom of the
turning position wedge. *Re-post the links to the photo which shows the
screw, so he can check that and compare with his toolpost.

[ ... ]

The screw can be seen in the 6th photo on that page.(Here is a larger
pic: http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...Toolpostb.jpg).

There is definitely no screw on the other side.

[ ... ]

I downloaded the photo and saved it to my computer. It needed to be
lightened in order to see what I think you're talking about. It looks
like there's a screw head on the underside of the wedge. Is that what
you're talking about? If so, I'll check mine when it arrives. It
shipped today from wherever Discount Machine is located.

[ ... ]

The toolpost arrived today (Friday) here in central PA. There is no
screw on the bottom of either of my wedges.

Which leads me to suspect that it does not belong in the one
which he got.

It has Shars imprinted on the block. I'll take photos of it in the
next couple of days and post them so you can compare to an Aloris.

*I* can't -- because I don't have an Aloris ready to hand. But
I can (and will) compare it to my BXA-sized Phase-II which I just
disassembled as I described above to make sure that what I suggested
will work.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 21, 6:51*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 20, 10:41*pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET GeoLane at PTD dot NET
wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

Yes. that's the screw. I assume it is there for a reason. It is
definitely not loose.

Also I have no problem putting on any of the included toolholders.
When I do, the range of the approximate 180 degree swing of the
locking bar becomes a 90 degree swing between locked and unlocked when
a toolholder is attached.

* * * * O.K. *That is reasonable. *But based on what you say later in
this article, I find myself wondering whether you have checked the
locking angle with the same holder in *both* stations.

Yes. it only slides down in one.

But the genuine Aloris AXA12N toolholder I have will only fit on one
of the two sides. I thought it was because the locking bar was in the
way, which it is. But even when I open the wedge completely and then
unscrew the locking bar the Aloris toolholder still will not fit down
on that side. ?!?

* * * * This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. *Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.

Yes. the supplied holders fit the same in both. In others words the
travel of the locking bar is about the same, regardless of which of
the two sides I use.(About 90 degrees, regardless of the supplied
holder I use).

And when on the side it does fit on the swing distance of the locking
bar between locked and unlocked is only about 10 to 15 degrees.(Though
I don't know how important that is).

* * * * Given the starting angle, I consider it quite important, as the
lever will be over the tailstock -- and perhaps hitting a drill chuck or
live center mounted in it.

Ok. Since I don't have it mounted I can't be sure what will be in the
way.

* * * * Ideally, the unlocked position should be something like 3:00
o'clock (parallel to the bed, pointing towards the tailstock end of the
bed), and the locked position should be with the lever pointing out at
the operator.

Ok. With the tool post mounted 45 degrees from square(diagonal), that
is the way it would be with one of the supplied tool holders on it.
Without a holder the locking bar will point toward the headstock.

Milling the Aloris holder would increase that swing range and allow
the toolholder to fit on *both* sides *if* I unscrew the locking bar.
(Sigh).

* * * * And -- this would have to be repeated for every genuine Aloris
holder which you subsequently get -- and all of the better clones as
well.

* * * * Now -- if you get different locking angles for a supplied holder
depending on what station it is on, I believe that one of the wedges is
too far down.

Nope. They all lock pretty much the same.

* * * * If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. *Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):

* * * *______________
* *( ) \ * * * * * */ ( )
________\ * * * * */_______

(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.

* * * * Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).

* * * * The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. *If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.

I'm not sure what "close" would be but I just measured both sides with
a ruler. And the measurements are 1-21/32" on the right side, and
1-2/3" on the left. And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.

* * * * Now -- just for the fun of it, do the same kind of measurement
*inside* the dovetails on both the supplied holders and the genuine
Aloris. *I suspect that you will find a somewhat wider measurement on
the supplied holders based on your fit experiments.

No doubt. I measured using the ruler and got 1-13/32" for the Aloris
and 1-14/32 for the supplied holders.

* * * * None of the photos show your post from the needed angle. *Look
at the toolpost diagonally from the corner between the two dovetails, so
you can see both wedges at the same time -- ideally with the viewpoint
at a level about half-way up the toolpost.

I took a another couple of pics, but it is difficult,because my Canon
G2 Powershot porduces washed out pics when flash is used or is too dim
when I don't use flash. The only good shot are outside when it's a
sunny day.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

* * * * If you can easily see that one wedge is higher than the other,
you have one started on the wrong thread -- an assembly problem at the
factory. *You *can* go back to the vendor and see if he can supply you
with a replacement one.

I don't know about it *easily* being seen, but the right wedge is
*slightly* higher.

* * * * But what *I* personally would do is to disassemble the toolpost
to the point of removing the wedges (I described how to do this in an
earlier article today) and re-installing them so you get both starting
at the same time, and so the lever angle winds up more reasonable.

* * * * Note that if you do this, you will probably void the warranty,
so if this is important to you, try the vendor route first.

I got this tool post years ago, so that is not an option. :-)

* * * * And if it turns out that the screw is not present in others, it
might be that the screw caused the wedges to be put in with this offset.

The screw mentioned does hit the floor when the post is in the locked
position.

* * * * It might help to know how these work internally:

1) * * *The lever turns a cylinder inside the body of the toolpost
* * * * which has a multi-start thread on its outside diameter.

2) * * *The wedges have partial mating threads on the inside, so
* * * * when the lever turns the cylinder, the wedges move up and down.

3) * * *The wedges move in contact with an angled surface which causes
* * * * them to increase or decrease the width of the dovetail as they
* * * * move down or up.

* * * * Since the thread is multi-start, it is possible to get the two
wedges started out of step, so one remains higher than the other. *And
-- it is also possible to remove the wedges and re-start them so both
move at the same height.

* * * * If the wedges are not at different heights, but the dovetails
measure significantly different widths, the cure would be to use a
proper dovetail mill to narrow the one which is giving the problems.
This problem would *certainly* call for a vendor replacement as the
first approach.

* * * * And if it comes to a choice between a proper fit for the
supplied holders or a proper fit for the Genuine Aloris holders, I would
go for the latter as this would increase the number of holders available
through surplus and eBay channels.

Yes. that is the goal. I just have to get the WD-40 out and wait for a
sunny day so I can take decent pics of everything as I go.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

Taking good pics of metal parts isn't easy for most folks. I've found that
one or two compact fluorescent lamps often produce much better results with
digital cameras than trying to use the flash.
Sometimes using a low level/fill (or anti redeye) flash setting with the CF
lamps works well too.

The type of CF that I've found to be best are the daylight type, about 5000
degrees Kelvin or higher. Different brands may refer to their daylight lamps
by different terms, but looking at the light temperature will be more
helpful.

The greatest advantage, of course, in using digital cameras is that one can
take numerous pics, then select a few that show the best detail.

--
WB
..........


"Searcher7" wrote in message
...

I took a another couple of pics, but it is difficult,because my Canon
G2 Powershot porduces washed out pics when flash is used or is too dim
when I don't use flash. The only good shot are outside when it's a
sunny day.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

On 2010-05-30, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 21, 6:51*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

* * * * This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. *Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.

Yes. the supplied holders fit the same in both. In others words the
travel of the locking bar is about the same, regardless of which of
the two sides I use.(About 90 degrees, regardless of the supplied
holder I use).

From the most CCW starting position in both cases?

And when on the side it does fit on the swing distance of the locking
bar between locked and unlocked is only about 10 to 15 degrees.(Though
I don't know how important that is).

* * * * Given the starting angle, I consider it quite important, as the
lever will be over the tailstock -- and perhaps hitting a drill chuck or
live center mounted in it.

Ok. Since I don't have it mounted I can't be sure what will be in the
way.

*I* can -- from the photos alone.

* * * * Ideally, the unlocked position should be something like 3:00
o'clock (parallel to the bed, pointing towards the tailstock end of the
bed), and the locked position should be with the lever pointing out at
the operator.

Ok. With the tool post mounted 45 degrees from square(diagonal),

No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No!

The sides should be parallel to the chuck face and the bed,
*never* at an angle. You can't do parting with it at an angle, even if
you can sort of make other things work.

that
is the way it would be with one of the supplied tool holders on it.
Without a holder the locking bar will point toward the headstock.

Which means that it is likely to be hit by a swinging chuck jaw
and the knob be shattered. (*Always* wear safety glasses when using the
lathe or mill.)

[ ... ]

* * * * If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. *Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):

* * * *______________
* *( ) \ * * * * * */ ( )
________\ * * * * */_______

(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.

* * * * Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).

* * * * The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. *If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.

I'm not sure what "close" would be but I just measured both sides with
a ruler.

I'm talking about measurements with something which reads out in
0.001" increments or better.

And the measurements are 1-21/32" on the right side, and
1-2/3" on the left.

What kind of ruler do you have which reads in thirds of an inch?
And if that is correct, they are just a bit out. 1.6563" vs 1.6667"
(giving fractional sizes with different denomenators leads to confusion.
Convert to decimal fractions *first*.

And measuring with a ruler, without the rods is no way to
measure it, because the edge of the wedges has been "broken" to avoid
sharp edges, and there is no certainty that the same amount has been
ground off of each.

And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.

This is with no holder in place, I presume? And which are you
calling left and which right? One should be the front (the side towards
a long workpiece) and one should be the side (on the left, towards the
chuck).

* * * * Now -- just for the fun of it, do the same kind of measurement
*inside* the dovetails on both the supplied holders and the genuine
Aloris. *I suspect that you will find a somewhat wider measurement on
the supplied holders based on your fit experiments.

No doubt. I measured using the ruler and got 1-13/32" for the Aloris
and 1-14/32 for the supplied holders.

Again -- without the rods, you are measuring were the edges of
the dovetail were rounded off, not where the actual clamping forces
occur.

* * * * None of the photos show your post from the needed angle. *Look
at the toolpost diagonally from the corner between the two dovetails, so
you can see both wedges at the same time -- ideally with the viewpoint
at a level about half-way up the toolpost.

I took a another couple of pics, but it is difficult,because my Canon
G2 Powershot porduces washed out pics when flash is used or is too dim
when I don't use flash. The only good shot are outside when it's a
sunny day.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

O.K. A trick is to put a white card in front of the flash to
bounce it up to the ceiling -- or if the flash is in the wrong place of
this -- bounce it to a side.

* * * * If you can easily see that one wedge is higher than the other,
you have one started on the wrong thread -- an assembly problem at the
factory. *You *can* go back to the vendor and see if he can supply you
with a replacement one.

I don't know about it *easily* being seen, but the right wedge is
*slightly* higher.

*I* can see it easily in the photo. And that position may be
forced by the screw.

Take it apart as I described before and see whether you can
re-align the wedges. And see whether the screw can be removed while you
are about it.

* * * * But what *I* personally would do is to disassemble the toolpost
to the point of removing the wedges (I described how to do this in an
earlier article today) and re-installing them so you get both starting
at the same time, and so the lever angle winds up more reasonable.

* * * * Note that if you do this, you will probably void the warranty,
so if this is important to you, try the vendor route first.

I got this tool post years ago, so that is not an option. :-)

O.K. So fixing it is the only reasonable choice.

I seem to have already deleted the model number from the
toolpost, but do I remember it starting with something like "250-"? If
so, that is not an AXA size. The AXA should start with "100-" based on
the Phase-II system of marking. Are the holders starting with "200-" as
well? If so, you have a BXA toolpost, and it will never properly fit
the Aloris AXA holders. And -- it will be too large for your lathe, as
well.

* * * * And if it turns out that the screw is not present in others, it
might be that the screw caused the wedges to be put in with this offset.

The screw mentioned does hit the floor when the post is in the locked
position.

That should not happen Take the post apart and remove the screw.
Or perhaps adjust it to limit the over-travel?

* * * * It might help to know how these work internally:

1) * * *The lever turns a cylinder inside the body of the toolpost
* * * * which has a multi-start thread on its outside diameter.

2) * * *The wedges have partial mating threads on the inside, so
* * * * when the lever turns the cylinder, the wedges move up and down.

3) * * *The wedges move in contact with an angled surface which causes
* * * * them to increase or decrease the width of the dovetail as they
* * * * move down or up.

* * * * Since the thread is multi-start, it is possible to get the two
wedges started out of step, so one remains higher than the other. *And
-- it is also possible to remove the wedges and re-start them so both
move at the same height.

* * * * If the wedges are not at different heights, but the dovetails
measure significantly different widths, the cure would be to use a
proper dovetail mill to narrow the one which is giving the problems.
This problem would *certainly* call for a vendor replacement as the
first approach.

* * * * And if it comes to a choice between a proper fit for the
supplied holders or a proper fit for the Genuine Aloris holders, I would
go for the latter as this would increase the number of holders available
through surplus and eBay channels.

Yes. that is the goal. I just have to get the WD-40 out and wait for a
sunny day so I can take decent pics of everything as I go.

I can see enough to see that you should *try* to take it apart and
re-set the wedges.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 31, 1:11*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-30, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 21, 6:51*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. *Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.

Yes. the supplied holders fit the same in both. In others words the
travel of the locking bar is about the same, regardless of which of
the two sides I use.(About 90 degrees, regardless of the supplied
holder I use).

* * * * From the most CCW starting position in both cases?

???

And when on the side it does fit on the swing distance of the locking
bar between locked and unlocked is only about 10 to 15 degrees.(Though
I don't know how important that is).

* * * * Given the starting angle, I consider it quite important, as the
lever will be over the tailstock -- and perhaps hitting a drill chuck or
live center mounted in it.

Ok. Since I don't have it mounted I can't be sure what will be in the
way.

* * * * *I* can -- from the photos alone.

* * * * Ideally, the unlocked position should be something like 3:00
o'clock (parallel to the bed, pointing towards the tailstock end of the
bed), and the locked position should be with the lever pointing out at
the operator.

Ok. With the tool post mounted 45 degrees from square(diagonal),

* * * * No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No!

* * * * The sides should be parallel to the chuck face and the bed,
*never* at an angle. *You can't do parting with it at an angle, even if
you can sort of make other things work.

I was just going by how it would have to be positioned in order for
the locking bar to, as you said, point toward the tailstock in the
unlocked position and toward the operator in the locked position.
(Don't worry. That is not the way it would really be mounted). :-)

The first two pics show the toolholder in it's proper relative
position opened and closed. Open would be more like 1:30 and closed at
7:30. (At about 5:00 I can still slide the supplied holders on).
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

In the correct position
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *that
is the way it would be with one of the supplied tool holders on it.
Without a holder the locking bar will point toward the headstock.

* * * * Which means that it is likely to be hit by a swinging chuck jaw
and the knob be shattered. *(*Always* wear safety glasses when using the
lathe or mill.)

* * * * [ ... ]



* * * * If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. *Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):

* * * *______________
* *( ) \ * * * * * */ ( )
________\ * * * * */_______

(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.

* * * * Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).

* * * * The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. *If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.

I'm not sure what "close" would be but I just measured both sides with
a ruler.

* * * * I'm talking about measurements with something which reads out in
0.001" increments or better.

* * * * *And the measurements are 1-21/32" on the right side, and
1-2/3" on the left.

* * * * What kind of ruler do you have which reads in thirds of an inch?
And if that is correct, they are just a bit out. *1.6563" vs 1.6667"
(giving fractional sizes with different denomenators leads to confusion.
Convert to decimal fractions *first*.

Ok. The ruler was actually normal one that shows 16ths.(Though it is
still easy to judge 1/32).

Anyway, it should have been written as 1-21/32 on the left and 1-20/32
on the right. Nevertheless I don't yet have any drill rod. Just drills
and taps.(And I still have to clean off the cosmolene).

* * * * And measuring with a ruler, without the rods is no way to
measure it, because the edge of the wedges has been "broken" to avoid
sharp edges, and there is no certainty that the same amount has been
ground off of each.

* * * * * * * * * * And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.

* * * * This is with no holder in place, I presume?

Correct.

And which are you
calling left and which right? *

From the perspective of viewing the tool post from the corner as show
in the third pic.

One should be the front (the side towards
a long workpiece) and one should be the side (on the left, towards the
chuck).

Yes. When on the compound rest..

* * * * Now -- just for the fun of it, do the same kind of measurement
*inside* the dovetails on both the supplied holders and the genuine
Aloris. *I suspect that you will find a somewhat wider measurement on
the supplied holders based on your fit experiments.

No doubt. I measured using the ruler and got 1-13/32" for the Aloris
and 1-14/32 for the supplied holders.

* * * * Again -- without the rods, you are measuring were the edges of
the dovetail were rounded off, not where the actual clamping forces
occur.

* * * * None of the photos show your post from the needed angle. *Look
at the toolpost diagonally from the corner between the two dovetails, so
you can see both wedges at the same time -- ideally with the viewpoint
at a level about half-way up the toolpost.

I took a another couple of pics, but it is difficult,because my Canon
G2 Powershot porduces washed out pics when flash is used or is too dim
when I don't use flash. The only good shot are outside when it's a
sunny day.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

* * * * O.K. *A trick is to put a white card in front of the flash to
bounce it up to the ceiling -- or if the flash is in the wrong place of
this -- bounce it to a side.

That is what I did. With the two newest pics I just covered the flash
with a double sheet of paper.(That worked out pretty well).

* * * * If you can easily see that one wedge is higher than the other,
you have one started on the wrong thread -- an assembly problem at the
factory. *You *can* go back to the vendor and see if he can supply you
with a replacement one.

I don't know about it *easily* being seen, but the right wedge is
*slightly* higher.

* * * * *I* can see it easily in the photo. *And that position may be
forced by the screw.

* * * * Take it apart as I described before and see whether you can
re-align the wedges. *And see whether the screw can be removed while you
are about it.

I'll be doing that today.

* * * * But what *I* personally would do is to disassemble the toolpost
to the point of removing the wedges (I described how to do this in an
earlier article today) and re-installing them so you get both starting
at the same time, and so the lever angle winds up more reasonable.

* * * * Note that if you do this, you will probably void the warranty,
so if this is important to you, try the vendor route first.

I got this tool post years ago, so that is not an option. :-)

* * * * O.K. *So fixing it is the only reasonable choice.

* * * * I seem to have already deleted the model number from the
toolpost, but do I remember it starting with something like "250-"? *If
so, that is not an AXA size. *The AXA should start with "100-" based on
the Phase-II system of marking. *Are the holders starting with "200-" as
well? *If so, you have a BXA toolpost, and it will never properly fit
the Aloris AXA holders. *And -- it will be too large for your lathe, as
well.

This guy on eBay is auctioning the exact set I have. 260608805552

(But he says 9 to 12" swing). ???

Here's an Aloris AXA that only says 12". 230481378998

And I assume this is the import knock-off of that also. 360260794079
(Which is what I have).

This is starting to become confusing. I e-mailed the original eBayer
to ask what the number is on the box for the AXA toolpost set.(Mine
has 250-100).

Here is one more. 310216774478

The dimensions of the square body of the toolpost are 2-23/32" tall,
and measured across the top is 2-15/32" by 2-2/32"(which is also the
diameter of the circular cap).

* * * * And if it turns out that the screw is not present in others, it
might be that the screw caused the wedges to be put in with this offset.

On 2010-05-31, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 31, 1:11*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-30, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 21, 6:51*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. *Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.

Yes. the supplied holders fit the same in both. In others words the
travel of the locking bar is about the same, regardless of which of
the two sides I use.(About 90 degrees, regardless of the supplied
holder I use).

* * * * From the most CCW starting position in both cases?

???

Most Counter-ClockWise -- the fully unlocked position.

[ ... ]

Ok. With the tool post mounted 45 degrees from square(diagonal),

* * * * No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No!

* * * * The sides should be parallel to the chuck face and the bed,
*never* at an angle. *You can't do parting with it at an angle, even if
you can sort of make other things work.

I was just going by how it would have to be positioned in order for
the locking bar to, as you said, point toward the tailstock in the
unlocked position and toward the operator in the locked position.
(Don't worry. That is not the way it would really be mounted). :-)

O.K.

The first two pics show the toolholder in it's proper relative
position opened and closed. Open would be more like 1:30 and closed at
7:30. (At about 5:00 I can still slide the supplied holders on).
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

Better shots.

[ ... ]

* * * * If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. *Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):

* * * *______________
* *( ) \ * * * * * */ ( )
________\ * * * * */_______

(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.

* * * * Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).

* * * * The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. *If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.

I'm not sure what "close" would be but I just measured both sides with
a ruler.

* * * * I'm talking about measurements with something which reads out in
0.001" increments or better.

* * * * *And the measurements are 1-21/32" on the right side, and
1-2/3" on the left.

* * * * What kind of ruler do you have which reads in thirds of an inch?
And if that is correct, they are just a bit out. *1.6563" vs 1.6667"
(giving fractional sizes with different denominators leads to confusion.
Convert to decimal fractions *first*.

Ok. The ruler was actually normal one that shows 16ths.(Though it is
still easy to judge 1/32).

O.K. You don't have a caliper? Dial, digital, or even vernier?
Any of those would give you *much* more accurate measurements.

Anyway, it should have been written as 1-21/32 on the left and 1-20/32
on the right.

Not much difference -- but we can't tell the amount of error
introduced by the chamfering of the edges of the dovetails.

Nevertheless I don't yet have any drill rod. Just drills
and taps.(And I still have to clean off the cosmolene).

Go to a hardware store and buy some steel rod about the same
diameter as the depth of the dovetails. Saw it in two -- or at least
saw off two pieces a little longer than the dovetails so the burred ends
will be clear (since I believe that your lathe is not yet set up to
use).

* * * * And measuring with a ruler, without the rods is no way to
measure it, because the edge of the wedges has been "broken" to avoid
sharp edges, and there is no certainty that the same amount has been
ground off of each.

* * * * * * * * * * And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.

* * * * This is with no holder in place, I presume?

Correct.

With the lever in the fully locked position the screw is
probably hitting the T-nut blank (unless you have either removed it or
turned it to clear) so that would limit the motion of the left-side
wedge (sides as normally mounted, not from your corner view). The front
side wedge may be hitting the top of travel in the unlocked position.

And which are you
calling left and which right? *

From the perspective of viewing the tool post from the corner as show
in the third pic.

I'm using "left" and "front" as normally mounted in the lathe.

[ ... ]

No doubt. I measured using the ruler and got 1-13/32" for the Aloris
and 1-14/32 for the supplied holders.

* * * * Again -- without the rods, you are measuring were the edges of
the dovetail were rounded off, not where the actual clamping forces
occur.

Get steel hardware store rod. It may not be very precise, but
it should be better than what you can do with a ruler. And a caliper
has a pair of ears for measuring the inside distance between two
surfaces (the inside of the rods in this case).

[ ... flash problems ... ]

* * * * O.K. *A trick is to put a white card in front of the flash to
bounce it up to the ceiling -- or if the flash is in the wrong place of
this -- bounce it to a side.

That is what I did. With the two newest pics I just covered the flash
with a double sheet of paper.(That worked out pretty well).

O.K. Certainly better images. I didn't even have to lighten
them with the computer.

* * * * If you can easily see that one wedge is higher than the other,
you have one started on the wrong thread -- an assembly problem at the
factory. *You *can* go back to the vendor and see if he can supply you
with a replacement one.

I don't know about it *easily* being seen, but the right wedge is
*slightly* higher.

* * * * *I* can see it easily in the photo. *And that position may be
forced by the screw.

* * * * Take it apart as I described before and see whether you can
re-align the wedges. *And see whether the screw can be removed while you
are about it.

I'll be doing that today.

O.K. Good Luck.

[ ... ]

* * * * I seem to have already deleted the model number from the
toolpost, but do I remember it starting with something like "250-"? *If
so, that is not an AXA size. *The AXA should start with "100-" based on
the Phase-II system of marking. *Are the holders starting with "200-" as
well? *If so, you have a BXA toolpost, and it will never properly fit
the Aloris AXA holders. *And -- it will be too large for your lathe, as
well.

This guy on eBay is auctioning the exact set I have. 260608805552

His photo says 250-whatever.

(But he says 9 to 12" swing). ???

Here's an Aloris AXA that only says 12". 230481378998

Yes -- that one was genuine Aloris. Since it is a private
listing, I can't tell what the price is.

And I assume this is the import knock-off of that also. 360260794079
(Which is what I have).

Yes -- Typical weasel words -- "Aloris Type".

This is starting to become confusing. I e-mailed the original eBayer
to ask what the number is on the box for the AXA toolpost set.(Mine
has 250-100).

Here is one more. 310216774478

More weasel words -- "for Aloris".

The dimensions of the square body of the toolpost are 2-23/32" tall,
and measured across the top is 2-15/32" by 2-2/32"(which is also the
diameter of the circular cap).

I don't have an Aloris (or any other type) in the AXA size, so
I can't compare measurements. The really important measurements are the
width of the inside of the dovetail on the holders -- which determines
what will fit where. And on the toolpost -- the range of widths of the
dovetails from loosest to tightest.

* * * * And if it turns out that the screw is not present in others, it
might be that the screw caused the wedges to be put in with this offset.

The screw mentioned does hit the floor when the post is in the locked
position.

* * * * That should not happen Take the post apart and remove the screw.
Or perhaps adjust it to limit the over-travel?

I think the problem is that the travel is too limited. At least on the
unlocked end.

Setting the wedges to start on different threads can make a
difference. You might try pulling both wedges, then starting with the
front station find what starting thread gives it the best lever range
for both the genuine Aloris and the import holders, then move the lever
back until the wedge just barely can be pulled out, and put both wedges
back in place, move the lever a little more back (proably about 1/4 turn
to be sure) and forward pushing both wedges in until they are traveling
in with the lever power only. That should do it -- if it is possible.

A pity that you can't measure the inside dimensions of the
tool holder dovetails, so we can see how likely it is that both the
genuine and the import holders will truly fit.

[ ... ]

* * * * And if it comes to a choice between a proper fit for the
supplied holders or a proper fit for the Genuine Aloris holders, I would
go for the latter as this would increase the number of holders available
through surplus and eBay channels.

Yes. that is the goal. I just have to get the WD-40 out and wait for a
sunny day so I can take decent pics of everything as I go.

* * * * I can see enough to see that you should *try* to take it apart and
re-set the wedges.


The worst case scenario is that it really is a BXA and I'd have to
sell it and get another toolpost set.(I'll post later on what I find).

And it should not be either an AXA or a BXA using the numbering
shown on one of the auctions you pointed to -- but apparently some
makers use strange numbering. Your auction # 360260794079 showed the
numbering series for the common clones with the Aloris size in
parentheses.

Good Luck,
DoN.

P.S. I'm likely to skip answering your postings tomorrow, simply
because by the time I'm through typing to you, there is not
sufficient time to read the rest of the newsgroup. It is
already 1:21 -- though the date information in the headers is
likely to tell when I started typing on this one. Hmm ... maybe
not. I don't see the date in the header yet.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jun 1, 1:23*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-31, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 31, 1:11*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-30, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 21, 6:51*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. *Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.

Yes. the supplied holders fit the same in both. In others words the
travel of the locking bar is about the same, regardless of which of
the two sides I use.(About 90 degrees, regardless of the supplied
holder I use).

* * * * From the most CCW starting position in both cases?

???

* * * * Most Counter-ClockWise -- the fully unlocked position.

* * * * [ ... ]

Ok. With the tool post mounted 45 degrees from square(diagonal),

* * * * No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No!

* * * * The sides should be parallel to the chuck face and the bed,
*never* at an angle. *You can't do parting with it at an angle, even if
you can sort of make other things work.

I was just going by how it would have to be positioned in order for
the locking bar to, as you said, *point toward the tailstock in the
unlocked position and toward the operator in the locked position.
(Don't worry. That is not the way it would really be mounted). :-)

* * * * O.K.

The first two pics show the toolholder in it's proper relative
position opened and closed. Open would be more like 1:30 and closed at
7:30. (At about 5:00 I can still slide the supplied holders on).
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

* * * * Better shots.

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. *Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):

* * * *______________
* *( ) \ * * * * * */ ( )
________\ * * * * */_______

(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.

* * * * Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).

* * * * The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. *If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.

I'm not sure what "close" would be but I just measured both sides with
a ruler.

* * * * I'm talking about measurements with something which reads out in
0.001" increments or better.

* * * * *And the measurements are 1-21/32" on the right side, and
1-2/3" on the left.

* * * * What kind of ruler do you have which reads in thirds of an inch?
And if that is correct, they are just a bit out. *1.6563" vs 1.6667"
(giving fractional sizes with different denominators leads to confusion.

On 2010-06-01, Searcher7 wrote:
On Jun 1, 1:23*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-31, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

* * * * O.K. *You don't have a caliper? *Dial, digital, or even vernier?
Any of those would give you *much* more accurate measurements.

*** Yes. i have a vernier, some place. :-) And I do have a Shars
micrometer set (.0001).

O.K. For this the caliper is both easier to use (especially
for measuring inside spacings) and certainly accurate enough for the
task.

BTW Do you *really* have a vernier? (One with two scales, one
the full length and one shorter which is used to interpolate
between the markings on the full-length scale), or a dial
caliper, or perhaps a digital one? Vernier properly applies
only to the first type -- but some mis-use the old term for
all calipers of the same basic shape.

[ ... ]

* * * * Go to a hardware store and buy some steel rod about the same
diameter as the depth of the dovetails. *Saw it in two -- or at least
saw off two pieces a little longer than the dovetails so the burred ends
will be clear (since I believe that your lathe is not yet set up to
use).

*** I'll be going away in a couple days and may have to do that next
week.

O.K.

[ ... ]

* * * * * * * * * * And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.

* * * * This is with no holder in place, I presume?

Correct.

* * * * With the lever in the fully locked position the screw is
probably hitting the T-nut blank (unless you have either removed it or
turned it to clear) so that would limit the motion of the left-side
wedge (sides as normally mounted, not from your corner view). *The front
side wedge may be hitting the top of travel in the unlocked position.

Ok. I'll have to read that a few more times. :-)

It will probably make more sense once you have taken the
toolpost apart.

[ ... ]

P.S. * *I'm likely to skip answering your postings tomorrow, simply
* * * * because by the time I'm through typing to you, there is not
* * * * sufficient time to read the rest of the newsgroup. *It is
* * * * already 1:21 -- though the date information in the headers is
* * * * likely to tell when I started typing on this one. *Hmm ... maybe
* * * * not. *I don't see the date in the header yet.

No problem. I'll have to slow up myself because I'm getting ready to
leave for New Hampshire. on Thursday and won't return until Sunday or
Monday.

As it turns out, there was not much real traffic in the
newsgroup, so I was able to finish it and go back to your message
threads.

Ok. I took apart the toolpost, but not completely because I didn't
have whatever tool is required to unscrew the ring situated under the
hex nut.

That's O.K. You don't *need* to remove that for what we are
doing. (The tool, BTW, is called a "pin spanner".

First I want to say that three starts in the thread don't represent
much in the way of resolution,

The three starts are equally distributed around the screw, each
120 degrees from the other two.

for lack of a better way of putting it.
In all I took it apart several times and it is basically a crap shoot
as to where the wedges will catch when they are re-inserted. There are
three thread starts as you said. But the wedges can only catch the
same threads that are the same relative distance from each other.
Anything else would result in a great big difference in wedge high
between the two. So basically there are only three option for change.

I figured that one of yours was on the wrong start. That is how
it was behaving.

Very small change. (I hope I explained that clearly).

Not if you get one on the wrong start, which is what I believe
was the case. Shifting the start on one relative to the other would
move one wedge up the distance of one tooth (visible on the back of the
wedge) relative to the other. Shifting the start on both will move the
lever 120 degrees from the current lock positions.

It's easy to tell when the wedges pass a thread entry point when I'm
pushing them up at the same time I'm rotating the locking bar
clockwise(toward the locking position).

Yes -- that is how you tell that both are on the start at the
same time -- make sure that both snap up a bit before you start screwing
them back up.

In the end I kept the locked and unlocked position of the locking bar
the same(for now), since it is only a problem with the Aloris
toolholder, which cannot be put on or taken off that side because of
the bar positon.(Not that I could put it on anyway).

So here we go. I attempted to swap the wedges, but of course that
didn't work. The surpise was when I took them all the way out. There
was another screw on the other wedge. But on top!

Intersting. Those are apparently setting the limits of the
swing of the lever.

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

Note from the photos that the actual threads on the wedges which
engage the multi-start cylinder thread are actually about 120 degrees
apart. (Your photo IMG_0144.jpg). It looks as though they are a bit
beyond that 120 degrees, but close enough if they designed the threads
to start at the right places.

When I put the toolpost back together I left the screws out. My
assumption is that the wedges were over-ground at the top and/or
bottom, and someone came up with the bright idea to tap and thread the
top of one and the bottom of the other to act as stoppers.

What I *think* happened is that they did not drill and tap the
hole for the lever in the right place (maybe each one is off a bit
differently) , and the screws allow them to move the max open and closed
positions somewhat -- but perhaps to have the wedges too tight.

But the only change that I can tell now with the screws out is that
the Aloris will still only slide down on one side, with effort. But
this time the left side. ??? (And I'm not sure that this has anything
to do with the screws anyway).

That suggests that you got the front dovetail one started one
thread before the left side one, so it is lower (and thus tighter) than
the other. Or that this design should have the left one started one
thread before the front one.

I think that the screws do belong in this one -- if only to tune
things so the lever can't hit the chuck jaws.

The screw in the top of the front one adjusts the position of
the maximum open lever, and the one at the bottom of the left side one
adjusts the position of the lever in the maximum locked position -- the
one where you are worried about hitting the lever with the rotating
chuck jaws -- especially if there is no tool holder on either station.

So it seems that I couldn't even sell this toolpost(as an AXA) since
it seems to be slightly off original Aloris manufacturing specs. (Now
I wonder if this is common with these knock-offs).

I've not heard other reports about this, so maybe just this
brand -- and maybe they have gotten better over time, since the other
person who had recently bought one of these (in BXA size IIRC) did not
find the screws in his.

The bottom line is that I'll have to find someone more experienced
than I to take a look at this and there may be some needed machining
involved in bringing it to spec. (ie: Slight milling of the wedges).

Hmm ... not sure about that being a good idea. Perhaps the best
thing is to re-make the wedges so the threads all start in the right
place.

But *perhaps* simply filing off the side of the wedge which
locks up first -- or perhaps using a milling machine and a dovetail mill
of the right angle (60 degree I think) to cut a little off the non-wedge
side of the dovetail (very little -- only a few thousandths -- should
make it possible for the genuine Aloris holder to fit on both.

But you might want to first play with them with only one wedge
in place at a time to see whether you can find good positions for each.

And there is still the issue of play. It's like the threads between
the wedges and the threaded cylinder inside have a loose tolerance.

That is so they don't get jammed by chips working into the
threads and the travel slides of the wedges. Too much precision makes
things sensitive to dirt.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Jun 1, 9:33*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-06-01, Searcher7 wrote:

On Jun 1, 1:23*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-31, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * O.K. *You don't have a caliper? *Dial, digital, or even vernier?
Any of those would give you *much* more accurate measurements.

*** Yes. i have a vernier, some place. :-) And I do have a Shars
micrometer set (.0001).

* * * * O.K. *For this the caliper is both easier to use (especially
for measuring inside spacings) and certainly accurate enough for the
task.

BTW * * Do you *really* have a vernier? *(One with two scales, one
* * * * the full length and one shorter which is used to interpolate
* * * * between the markings on the full-length scale), or a dial
* * * * caliper, or perhaps a digital one? *Vernier properly applies
* * * * only to the first type -- but some mis-use the old term for
* * * * all calipers of the same basic shape.

*** A dial caliper is on my shopping list, but I have to find my
vernier. It's been a while and I can't remember details in regard to
the scales.

* * * * Go to a hardware store and buy some steel rod about the same
diameter as the depth of the dovetails. *Saw it in two -- or at least
saw off two pieces a little longer than the dovetails so the burred ends
will be clear (since I believe that your lathe is not yet set up to
use).

*** I'll be going away in a couple days and may have to do that next
week.

* * * * O.K.

* * * * [ ... ]



* * * * * * * * * * And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.

* * * * This is with no holder in place, I presume?

Correct.

* * * * With the lever in the fully locked position the screw is
probably hitting the T-nut blank (unless you have either removed it or
turned it to clear) so that would limit the motion of the left-side
wedge (sides as normally mounted, not from your corner view). *The front
side wedge may be hitting the top of travel in the unlocked position.

Ok. I'll have to read that a few more times. :-)

* * * * It will probably make more sense once you have taken the
toolpost apart.

* * * * [ ... ]

P.S. * *I'm likely to skip answering your postings tomorrow, simply
* * * * because by the time I'm through typing to you, there is not
* * * * sufficient time to read the rest of the newsgroup. *It is
* * * * already 1:21 -- though the date information in the headers is
* * * * likely to tell when I started typing on this one. *Hmm ... maybe
* * * * not. *I don't see the date in the header yet.

No problem. I'll have to slow up myself because I'm getting ready to
leave for New Hampshire. on Thursday and won't return until Sunday or
Monday.

* * * * As it turns out, there was not much real traffic in the
newsgroup, so I was able to finish it and go back to your message
threads.

Ok. I took apart the toolpost, but not completely because I didn't
have whatever tool is required to unscrew the ring situated under the
hex nut.

* * * * That's O.K. *You don't *need* to remove that for what we are
doing. *(The tool, BTW, is called a "pin spanner".

*** Ok. This is already on my shopping list.
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1416

First I want to say that three starts in the thread don't represent
much in the way of resolution,

* * * * The three starts are equally distributed around the screw, each
120 degrees from the other two.

*** Yes. Every 1/3 turn of the locking bar cause the wedges to snap
back up to the next thread if I'm pushing up.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *for lack of a better way of putting it.
In all I took it apart several times and it is basically a crap shoot
as to where the wedges will catch when they are re-inserted. There are
three thread starts as you said. But the wedges can only catch the
same threads that are the same relative distance from each other.
Anything else would result in a great big difference in wedge high
between the two. So basically there are only three option for change.

* * * * I figured that one of yours was on the wrong start. *That is how
it was behaving.

*** The wrong start would manifest itself as an *obvious* difference
in height between the two wedges.

Very small change. (I hope I explained that clearly).

* * * * Not if you get one on the wrong start, which is what I believe
was the case. *Shifting the start on one relative to the other would
move one wedge up the distance of one tooth (visible on the back of the
wedge) relative to the other. *Shifting the start on both will move the
lever 120 degrees from the current lock positions.

*** Yes. The distance of one tooth would actually be more than twice
the tooth width due to the loose tolerance.

It's easy to tell when the wedges pass a thread entry point when I'm
pushing them up at the same time I'm rotating the locking bar
clockwise(toward the locking position).

* * * * Yes -- that is how you tell that both are on the start at the
same time -- make sure that both snap up a bit before you start screwing
them back up.

*** I'll have to play with it some more when I come back.

In the end I kept the locked and unlocked position of the locking bar
the same(for now), since it is only a problem with the Aloris
toolholder, which cannot be put on or taken off that side because of
the bar positon.(Not that I could put it on anyway).

So here we go. I attempted to swap the wedges, but of course that
didn't work. The surpise was when I took them all the way out. There
was another screw on the other wedge. But on top!

* * * * Intersting. *Those are apparently setting the limits of the
swing of the lever.

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

* * * * Note from the photos that the actual threads on the wedges which
engage the multi-start cylinder thread are actually about 120 degrees
apart. *(Your photo IMG_0144.jpg). *It looks as though they are a bit
beyond that 120 degrees, but close enough if they designed the threads
to start at the right places.

When I put the toolpost back together I left the screws out. My
assumption is that the wedges were over-ground at the top and/or
bottom, and someone came up with the bright idea to tap and thread the
top of one and the bottom of the other to act as stoppers.

* * * * What I *think* happened is that they did not drill and tap the
hole for the lever in the right place (maybe each one is off a bit
differently) , and the screws allow them to move the max open and closed
positions somewhat -- but perhaps to have the wedges too tight.

But the only change that I can tell now with the screws out is that
the Aloris will still only slide down on one side, with effort. But
this time the left side. ??? (And I'm not sure that this has anything
to do with the screws anyway).

* * * * That suggests that you got the front dovetail one started one
thread before the left side one, so it is lower (and thus tighter) than
the other. *Or that this design should have the left one started one
thread before the front one.

* * * * I think that the screws do belong in this one -- if only to tune
things so the lever can't hit the chuck jaws.

* * * * The screw in the top of the front one adjusts the position of
the maximum open lever, and the one at the bottom of the left side one
adjusts the position of the lever in the maximum locked position -- the
one where you are worried about hitting the lever with the rotating
chuck jaws -- especially if there is no tool holder on either station.

*** The swing increased to about 225 degrees without the screws or a
toolholder mounted.

So it seems that I couldn't even sell this toolpost(as an AXA) since
it seems to be slightly off original Aloris manufacturing specs. (Now
I wonder if this is common with these knock-offs).

* * * * I've not heard other reports about this, so maybe just this
brand -- and maybe they have gotten better over time, since the other
person who had recently bought one of these (in BXA size IIRC) did not
find the screws in his.

The bottom line is that I'll have to find someone more experienced
than I to take a look at this and there may be some needed machining
involved in bringing it to spec. (ie: Slight milling of the wedges).

* * * * Hmm ... not sure about that being a good idea. *Perhaps the best
thing is to re-make the wedges so the threads all start in the right
place.

* * * * But *perhaps* simply filing off the side of the wedge which
locks up first -- or perhaps using a milling machine and a dovetail mill
of the right angle (60 degree I think) to cut a little off the non-wedge
side of the dovetail (very little -- only a few thousandths -- should
make it possible for the genuine Aloris holder to fit on both.

*** Yes. The non-wedge side is the corner between both wedges that
form 60 degrees for both sides.

* * * * But you might want to first play with them with only one wedge
in place at a time to see whether you can find good positions for each.

And there is still the issue of play. It's like the threads between
the wedges and the threaded cylinder inside have a loose tolerance.

* * * * That is so they don't get jammed by chips working into the
threads and the travel slides of the wedges. *Too much precision makes
things sensitive to dirt.

*** Yes. I was wondering how loose the tolerance should be.

I've been playing around with it and there are only three possible
swing ranges for the locking bar. And even if I can get the Aloris on
one of the wedges it would be with difficulty.

I agree that the screws were to limit the swing, but I don't think it
is a big deal. Especially with a tool post on. (But I'll put them back
anyway).

So It seems that milling the center of the post between the wedges is
the best option.

But first I still need to find out what the respective measurements of
AXA and BXA toolholders are supposed to be, so I can determine not
only which one I have, but also if they use the same size post body
with different wedges, or different sized posts. (which may complicate
things as for as mounting on the mini lathe compound slide).

My tool post is 2-1/8" x 2-1/8" x 2-3/16", without the base, which is
15/32" thick.

I'll also have to re-grease everything when I finish playing around
with it.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2010-06-03, Searcher7 wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:33 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

BTW Do you *really* have a vernier? (One with two scales, one
the full length and one shorter which is used to interpolate
between the markings on the full-length scale), or a dial
caliper, or perhaps a digital one? Vernier properly applies
only to the first type -- but some mis-use the old term for
all calipers of the same basic shape.

*** A dial caliper is on my shopping list, but I have to find my
vernier. It's been a while and I can't remember details in regard to
the scales.

O.K. I find myself remembering that there are very cheap
vernier calipers (made by General, IIRC) which only measure to 1/128"
(fractional size instead of decimal) even with the vernier. The proper
ones are graduated in 0.025" steps, and have 26 lines on the vernier.
These were made of stamped metal, bent to form the carriage, and with
the numbers and lines stamped in them, while a proper machinist's
vernier caliper is machined from flat stock with the lines and numbers
engraved in them, and the carriage machined from thicker metal. Also,
the surface is typically a ground finish.

--------------------

But you might want to consider getting a digital instead of a
dial. I've gotten a nice enough one at a hamfest for $18.00, with
resolution to 0.0005" (half a thousandth). There are quite a few
benefits to a digital caliper over a dial one, and only one benefit to
the dial -- the dial does not have to worry about the batteries dying. :-)



harbor freight has emininently acceptable digital calipers for around $16, I
think they are on sale now. you can't trust them to half a thousandth, but
to .001 they are fine. ENCO also has them at about the same price and you
can get free shipping