On 2010-05-31, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 31, 1:11*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-30, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 21, 6:51*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:
* * * * [ ... ]
* * * * This is why I ask about the locking angle for one of the
supplied holders tried in both stations. *Normally, you should have the
same fit in both stations.
Yes. the supplied holders fit the same in both. In others words the
travel of the locking bar is about the same, regardless of which of
the two sides I use.(About 90 degrees, regardless of the supplied
holder I use).
* * * * From the most CCW starting position in both cases?
???
Most Counter-ClockWise -- the fully unlocked position.
[ ... ]
Ok. With the tool post mounted 45 degrees from square(diagonal),
* * * * No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No! -- No!
* * * * The sides should be parallel to the chuck face and the bed,
*never* at an angle. *You can't do parting with it at an angle, even if
you can sort of make other things work.
I was just going by how it would have to be positioned in order for
the locking bar to, as you said, point toward the tailstock in the
unlocked position and toward the operator in the locked position.
(Don't worry. That is not the way it would really be mounted). :-)
O.K.
The first two pics show the toolholder in it's proper relative
position opened and closed. Open would be more like 1:30 and closed at
7:30. (At about 5:00 I can still slide the supplied holders on).
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/
Better shots.
[ ... ]
* * * * If you have two lengths of round rod of the same diameter (e.g.
drill rod), set the lever in the fully locked position and try measuring
the width of the two dovetails. *Do this using the rods as follows
(view with a fixed pitch font like Courier to avoid distortion):
* * * *______________
* *( ) \ * * * * * */ ( )
________\ * * * * */_______
(the rods should be bigger, but that is the biggest that I can show
using ASCII graphics.
* * * * Anyway -- place the rods into the Vs of the dovetails, and
measure the width across the outside of the rods (using a caliper or a
larger micrometer).
* * * * The measurement across the rods should be close to the same on
the two dovetails. *If it is not so, then one of them is improperly set
on the threads.
I'm not sure what "close" would be but I just measured both sides with
a ruler.
* * * * I'm talking about measurements with something which reads out in
0.001" increments or better.
* * * * *And the measurements are 1-21/32" on the right side, and
1-2/3" on the left.
* * * * What kind of ruler do you have which reads in thirds of an inch?
And if that is correct, they are just a bit out. *1.6563" vs 1.6667"
(giving fractional sizes with different denominators leads to confusion.
Convert to decimal fractions *first*.
Ok. The ruler was actually normal one that shows 16ths.(Though it is
still easy to judge 1/32).
O.K. You don't have a caliper? Dial, digital, or even vernier?
Any of those would give you *much* more accurate measurements.
Anyway, it should have been written as 1-21/32 on the left and 1-20/32
on the right.
Not much difference -- but we can't tell the amount of error
introduced by the chamfering of the edges of the dovetails.
Nevertheless I don't yet have any drill rod. Just drills
and taps.(And I still have to clean off the cosmolene).
Go to a hardware store and buy some steel rod about the same
diameter as the depth of the dovetails. Saw it in two -- or at least
saw off two pieces a little longer than the dovetails so the burred ends
will be clear (since I believe that your lathe is not yet set up to
use).
* * * * And measuring with a ruler, without the rods is no way to
measure it, because the edge of the wedges has been "broken" to avoid
sharp edges, and there is no certainty that the same amount has been
ground off of each.
* * * * * * * * * * And I just noticed that the left wedge has some
play when the tool post is in the locked position. But in the un-
locked position it is the right wedge that has a slight amount of
play.
* * * * This is with no holder in place, I presume?
Correct.
With the lever in the fully locked position the screw is
probably hitting the T-nut blank (unless you have either removed it or
turned it to clear) so that would limit the motion of the left-side
wedge (sides as normally mounted, not from your corner view). The front
side wedge may be hitting the top of travel in the unlocked position.
And which are you
calling left and which right? *
From the perspective of viewing the tool post from the corner as show
in the third pic.
I'm using "left" and "front" as normally mounted in the lathe.
[ ... ]
No doubt. I measured using the ruler and got 1-13/32" for the Aloris
and 1-14/32 for the supplied holders.
* * * * Again -- without the rods, you are measuring were the edges of
the dovetail were rounded off, not where the actual clamping forces
occur.
Get steel hardware store rod. It may not be very precise, but
it should be better than what you can do with a ruler. And a caliper
has a pair of ears for measuring the inside distance between two
surfaces (the inside of the rods in this case).
[ ... flash problems ... ]
* * * * O.K. *A trick is to put a white card in front of the flash to
bounce it up to the ceiling -- or if the flash is in the wrong place of
this -- bounce it to a side.
That is what I did. With the two newest pics I just covered the flash
with a double sheet of paper.(That worked out pretty well).
O.K. Certainly better images. I didn't even have to lighten
them with the computer.
* * * * If you can easily see that one wedge is higher than the other,
you have one started on the wrong thread -- an assembly problem at the
factory. *You *can* go back to the vendor and see if he can supply you
with a replacement one.
I don't know about it *easily* being seen, but the right wedge is
*slightly* higher.
* * * * *I* can see it easily in the photo. *And that position may be
forced by the screw.
* * * * Take it apart as I described before and see whether you can
re-align the wedges. *And see whether the screw can be removed while you
are about it.
I'll be doing that today.
O.K. Good Luck.
[ ... ]
* * * * I seem to have already deleted the model number from the
toolpost, but do I remember it starting with something like "250-"? *If
so, that is not an AXA size. *The AXA should start with "100-" based on
the Phase-II system of marking. *Are the holders starting with "200-" as
well? *If so, you have a BXA toolpost, and it will never properly fit
the Aloris AXA holders. *And -- it will be too large for your lathe, as
well.
This guy on eBay is auctioning the exact set I have. 260608805552
His photo says 250-whatever.
(But he says 9 to 12" swing). ???
Here's an Aloris AXA that only says 12". 230481378998
Yes -- that one was genuine Aloris. Since it is a private
listing, I can't tell what the price is.
And I assume this is the import knock-off of that also. 360260794079
(Which is what I have).
Yes -- Typical weasel words -- "Aloris Type".
This is starting to become confusing. I e-mailed the original eBayer
to ask what the number is on the box for the AXA toolpost set.(Mine
has 250-100).
Here is one more. 310216774478
More weasel words -- "for Aloris".
The dimensions of the square body of the toolpost are 2-23/32" tall,
and measured across the top is 2-15/32" by 2-2/32"(which is also the
diameter of the circular cap).
I don't have an Aloris (or any other type) in the AXA size, so
I can't compare measurements. The really important measurements are the
width of the inside of the dovetail on the holders -- which determines
what will fit where. And on the toolpost -- the range of widths of the
dovetails from loosest to tightest.
* * * * And if it turns out that the screw is not present in others, it
might be that the screw caused the wedges to be put in with this offset.
The screw mentioned does hit the floor when the post is in the locked
position.
* * * * That should not happen Take the post apart and remove the screw.
Or perhaps adjust it to limit the over-travel?
I think the problem is that the travel is too limited. At least on the
unlocked end.
Setting the wedges to start on different threads can make a
difference. You might try pulling both wedges, then starting with the
front station find what starting thread gives it the best lever range
for both the genuine Aloris and the import holders, then move the lever
back until the wedge just barely can be pulled out, and put both wedges
back in place, move the lever a little more back (proably about 1/4 turn
to be sure) and forward pushing both wedges in until they are traveling
in with the lever power only. That should do it -- if it is possible.
A pity that you can't measure the inside dimensions of the
tool holder dovetails, so we can see how likely it is that both the
genuine and the import holders will truly fit.
[ ... ]
* * * * And if it comes to a choice between a proper fit for the
supplied holders or a proper fit for the Genuine Aloris holders, I would
go for the latter as this would increase the number of holders available
through surplus and eBay channels.
Yes. that is the goal. I just have to get the WD-40 out and wait for a
sunny day so I can take decent pics of everything as I go.
* * * * I can see enough to see that you should *try* to take it apart and
re-set the wedges.
The worst case scenario is that it really is a BXA and I'd have to
sell it and get another toolpost set.(I'll post later on what I find).
And it should not be either an AXA or a BXA using the numbering
shown on one of the auctions you pointed to -- but apparently some
makers use strange numbering. Your auction # 360260794079 showed the
numbering series for the common clones with the Aloris size in
parentheses.
Good Luck,
DoN.
P.S. I'm likely to skip answering your postings tomorrow, simply
because by the time I'm through typing to you, there is not
sufficient time to read the rest of the newsgroup. It is
already 1:21 -- though the date information in the headers is
likely to tell when I started typing on this one. Hmm ... maybe
not. I don't see the date in the header yet.
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