"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 8:36 pm, "Calif Bill" wrote:
"rangerssuck" wrote in message

...
On Aug 7, 4:52 pm, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:



I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and the
three
wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

1. We have 'em by the dozen here in NE NJ. The shock of seeing them has
worn off for me. Now, they're just little go-carts-galore.

2. When I put a new gas tank on my six cylinder Honda Valkyrie
motorcycle
a
few months ago, I played with the idea of putting a Smart Car emblem on
there instead of the stock Valkyrie emblem. Didn't do it, but hey... I
thought it was funny.
--

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping:http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site:http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS:http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

Around here (Bergen County, NJ) the Smart Car is carried by the huge
Mercedes dealer. Sort of tells you something about "Smart = Status"
for some folks.

It is built by Mercedes.

OK that explains why the Mercedes dealer sells them. Now explain why
people buy them :-)

Cultist? I can see their use in crowded cities. You see lots in Paris and
some other Large European cities. But you can park head on to the curb
which is a great convenience in areas with almost non existent parking. And
they are city cars. Aquaintance of mine bought one. He loves it, but his
other car is a Model A. But he does not take long road trips. Interior is
large. I am 6'4" and I sat in it without hitting. Would not want to take
a long trip in it. The are not buying for mileage. 40 mpg is not that much
different than larger cars such as the Prius, but a lot cheaper.

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article ,
Wes wrote:

I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3bFhVvdlaI

Top Gear ran a smart car into a cement wall at 70 mph. The car and
the wall both took a beating. The front end was reduced to confetti,
but the passenger compartment was remarkably undamaged. The passenger
door was even still openeable.

I don't know if the accident was survivable, but the car did a lot
better than you would suspect.

Have a look at what Bright is doing with carbon fiber components. They are
an Indiana company and I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.
I know Penske is trying to do something with Bright for his Saturn brand.



--
John R. Carroll

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:44:45 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

David Billington wrote:

Not a smart car they only have 3 wheel nuts, that car has 5.


I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and the three wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

Hey, my best buddy in high school owned a Hillman Minx. It had 3 lugs
on each wheel and the lefts were left-hand threaded. It didn't do over
about 35mph, but it never lost a wheel. Gawd, what a POS... but it
was made of real steel!
http://www.full-service-aviator.com/Hillman_Minx.jpg

--
Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and
impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station.
-- Joseph Addison, 'Cato'

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:50:41 -0500, the infamous "Pete C."
scrawled the following:


"Edward A. Falk" wrote:

In article ,
Wes wrote:

I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3bFhVvdlaI

Top Gear ran a smart car into a cement wall at 70 mph. The car and
the wall both took a beating. The front end was reduced to confetti,
but the passenger compartment was remarkably undamaged. The passenger
door was even still openeable.

I don't know if the accident was survivable, but the car did a lot better
than you would suspect.

Most of us have done the egg drop thing in high school science class and
know that the condition of the exterior cage has little to do with the
condition of the contents after impact.

Right. What good is an intact vehicle if the important fluids of the
occupants are running down the street in red/yellow/gray trickles?

--
Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and
impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station.
-- Joseph Addison, 'Cato'

What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Thrown clear vs. compacted... Some survival chance vs. coffin...

Never seen an LA Freeway, apparently.
"Thrown clear" equals "Knocked off and then Run over".

Yesterday, in St. George, Utah, a 52 year old man was traveling north on
I-15. His motorcycle "lost" its rear tire, according to news reports.
(Don't know if the whole thing came off, or he blew a tire.) He dumped the
bike, but not to worry. The DOT had put up steel posts with 1/2" wire rope
just along side the highway. He and motorcycle went into those. Killed
instantly.

The wires are only six to eight feet from the roadway. Right after where he
crashed, they discontinue. I think there may be a lawsuit out of this. I
drove back from Vegas today, and there's just gouge marks starting in the
middle of the left lane, then get all squiggly and head towards the "safety"
fence.

Damn, I'm glad that government keeps us from hurting ourselves or others.
He could have caused all sorts of commotion if he had crashed, and those
wires had not been there.

Poor guy. Ouch. He had to see it coming.

Steve

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

wrote:

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:50:08 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and the
three wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

1. We have 'em by the dozen here in NE NJ. The shock of seeing them
has worn off for me. Now, they're just little go-carts-galore.

2. When I put a new gas tank on my six cylinder Honda Valkyrie
motorcycle a few months ago, I played with the idea of putting a
Smart Car emblem on there instead of the stock Valkyrie emblem.
Didn't do it, but hey... I thought it was funny.

They apparently toss the things in the canals as a drinking game in
Amsterdam.
I thought this was a joke when I first heard it but apparently not.

I'm starting to see them here in LA which means there must be a
bunch of them on the road.

They breed, given a favorable climate and enough food. Then they form
herds. Soon, they will begin to mutate. The fear is they will
eventually become immune to antibiotics.

LOL
What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything
"a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Snarl

I once observed a guy on a motorcycle behind me take his helmet off, put
it in his lap, take his shirt off and then put his helmet back on
(summer time). This sounds simple enough, however were were traveling
about 40 mph down a slight hill at the time.

Saw a guy today doing 75 on a nicely modified Harley (with copper tank).
Took both hands off the bars and swung them back and forth over his chest
several times. But no big deal, I've ridden motorcycles before, and so long
as you're balanced, you got two big gyros keeping you straight.

Steve

OK that explains why the Mercedes dealer sells them. Now explain why
people buy them :-)

Ego and to proclaim their "green" status.

Just my guess.

SteveB wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

wrote:

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:50:08 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and the
three wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

1. We have 'em by the dozen here in NE NJ. The shock of seeing them
has worn off for me. Now, they're just little go-carts-galore.

2. When I put a new gas tank on my six cylinder Honda Valkyrie
motorcycle a few months ago, I played with the idea of putting a
Smart Car emblem on there instead of the stock Valkyrie emblem.
Didn't do it, but hey... I thought it was funny.

They apparently toss the things in the canals as a drinking game in
Amsterdam.
I thought this was a joke when I first heard it but apparently not.

I'm starting to see them here in LA which means there must be a
bunch of them on the road.

They breed, given a favorable climate and enough food. Then they form
herds. Soon, they will begin to mutate. The fear is they will
eventually become immune to antibiotics.

LOL
What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything
"a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Snarl

I once observed a guy on a motorcycle behind me take his helmet off, put
it in his lap, take his shirt off and then put his helmet back on
(summer time). This sounds simple enough, however were were traveling
about 40 mph down a slight hill at the time.

Saw a guy today doing 75 on a nicely modified Harley (with copper tank).
Took both hands off the bars and swung them back and forth over his chest
several times. But no big deal, I've ridden motorcycles before, and so long
as you're balanced, you got two big gyros keeping you straight.

Yes, however when your hands are occupied removing your shirt and your
visibility is also compromised, what exactly do you do when traffic
suddenly slows or stops? Gyroscopic stabilization only works if you can
keep going straight.

Calif Bill wrote:
The are not buying for mileage. 40 mpg is not
that much
different than larger cars such as the Prius, but a lot cheaper.



I saw them at a dealer last fall with giant signs
saying only $26,000 and almost ran off the road!
I got a nice Honda Civic Hybrid and am now getting
56+ MPG, and I only paid 22K for a real
5-passenger car (assuming some of those are kids).
Hmmm, yeah, I just don't get it.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:
The are not buying for mileage. 40 mpg is not that much
different than larger cars such as the Prius, but a lot cheaper.

I saw them at a dealer last fall with giant signs saying only $26,000 and
almost ran off the road! I got a nice Honda Civic Hybrid and am now
getting 56+ MPG, and I only paid 22K for a real 5-passenger car (assuming
some of those are kids). Hmmm, yeah, I just don't get it.

Jon

sometimes Big isn't better - they are easier to park and maneuver where it's
crowded - maybe not suitable for rural Nevada, but great for a central city

Calif Bill wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message
...

"John R. Carroll" wrote:


What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling anything
"a death trap ".

Decent weather, no snow, I think I'd take my chances with the motorcycle.
I could out
brake, out accelerate, out steer, and fit through smaller gaps in the
traffic ahead.

In the case of a collision, I'd rather be thrown from the bike rather than
compacted in
the 'smart' coffin.

Wes


Actually the crash cage in the Smart seems to hold up well. But anything
inside the cage is broken as they is very little crash deformation.



Not just a problem with the likes of Smart cars. In the UK some test
have been done with 4x4s hitting passenger cars and while the 4x4 looked
relatively undamaged and the passenger car badly damaged, the occupants
of the 4x4 came off worse than the passenger car occupents. These were
older 4x4 with separate chassis and poor crumple facilities so the
occupants, well test dummies, were subjected to higher decelerations
which results in greater injury.

David Billington wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message
...

"John R. Carroll" wrote:


What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Decent weather, no snow, I think I'd take my chances with the
motorcycle. I could out
brake, out accelerate, out steer, and fit through smaller gaps in
the traffic ahead.

In the case of a collision, I'd rather be thrown from the bike
rather than compacted in
the 'smart' coffin.

Wes


Actually the crash cage in the Smart seems to hold up well. But
anything inside the cage is broken as they is very little crash
deformation.



Not just a problem with the likes of Smart cars. In the UK some test
have been done with 4x4s hitting passenger cars and while the 4x4
looked relatively undamaged and the passenger car badly damaged, the
occupants of the 4x4 came off worse than the passenger car occupents.
These were older 4x4 with separate chassis and poor crumple
facilities so the occupants, well test dummies, were subjected to
higher decelerations which results in greater injury.

The short version of all this is lead, follow or get out of the way.
I wouldn't sat SMART is THE future, but something like it will be.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews


--
John R. Carroll

wrote in message
...

What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling anything
"a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Snarl



texting on a motorcycle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amxE3RLAzQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkf5d2aYzps

William Wixon wrote:
wrote in message
...

What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Snarl



texting on a motorcycle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amxE3RLAzQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkf5d2aYzps

LOL
Lot's of stupid people in the world.
Some drive cars, other drive motorcycle.
Stupidity, not vehicle choice, is the common element although you could
argue that thinking a motorcycle is an equally safe form of conveyance
compared to a car, nearly any car, is arguably stupid.


--
John R. Carroll

John R. Carroll wrote:

Neither, since I don't do any of that stuff.
I have, on the other hand, had cross traffic look directly at me - wait, and
then pull out.
Not while I was driving a car, of course.

Based on my cycle experience, he wasn't looking at you, he was looking
through you. Motorcycles don't cover enough of his field of vision.
Maybe we should all get sidecars.

David

On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:52:49 -0500, the infamous "Pete C."
scrawled the following:


SteveB wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

wrote:

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:50:08 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and the
three wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

1. We have 'em by the dozen here in NE NJ. The shock of seeing them
has worn off for me. Now, they're just little go-carts-galore.

2. When I put a new gas tank on my six cylinder Honda Valkyrie
motorcycle a few months ago, I played with the idea of putting a
Smart Car emblem on there instead of the stock Valkyrie emblem.
Didn't do it, but hey... I thought it was funny.

They apparently toss the things in the canals as a drinking game in
Amsterdam.
I thought this was a joke when I first heard it but apparently not.

I'm starting to see them here in LA which means there must be a
bunch of them on the road.

They breed, given a favorable climate and enough food. Then they form
herds. Soon, they will begin to mutate. The fear is they will
eventually become immune to antibiotics.

LOL
What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything
"a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Snarl

I once observed a guy on a motorcycle behind me take his helmet off, put
it in his lap, take his shirt off and then put his helmet back on
(summer time). This sounds simple enough, however were were traveling
about 40 mph down a slight hill at the time.

Saw a guy today doing 75 on a nicely modified Harley (with copper tank).
Took both hands off the bars and swung them back and forth over his chest
several times. But no big deal, I've ridden motorcycles before, and so long
as you're balanced, you got two big gyros keeping you straight.

Yes, however when your hands are occupied removing your shirt and your
visibility is also compromised, what exactly do you do when traffic
suddenly slows or stops? Gyroscopic stabilization only works if you can
keep going straight.

If you hit anything in the half-second that your vision is impaired
while taking off a shirt, you were tailgating. (pull arms out first,
then whip the bunched shirt over the head, quicklikeabunny)

--
Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and
impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station.
-- Joseph Addison, 'Cato'

David R.Birch wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:

Neither, since I don't do any of that stuff.
I have, on the other hand, had cross traffic look directly at me -
wait, and then pull out.
Not while I was driving a car, of course.

Based on my cycle experience, he wasn't looking at you, he was looking
through you.

Yep, and I recognized the blank stare.
Saved me a bruisin'.
Oh, it was a she, not a he.


--
John R. Carroll

On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:23:52 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:50:08 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and
the three wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

1. We have 'em by the dozen here in NE NJ. The shock of seeing
them has worn off for me. Now, they're just little
go-carts-galore.

2. When I put a new gas tank on my six cylinder Honda Valkyrie
motorcycle a few months ago, I played with the idea of putting a
Smart Car emblem on there instead of the stock Valkyrie emblem.
Didn't do it, but hey... I thought it was funny.

They apparently toss the things in the canals as a drinking game in
Amsterdam.
I thought this was a joke when I first heard it but apparently not.

I'm starting to see them here in LA which means there must be a
bunch of them on the road.

They breed, given a favorable climate and enough food. Then they
form herds. Soon, they will begin to mutate. The fear is they will
eventually become immune to antibiotics.

LOL
What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous!

Only to themselves and their families as a rule.
They are hard on deer as well.

Ah, yer one of those guys. Hate to tell ya, but yer "rule" is based
on a flawed premise. Let me guess, you *used* to ride, yes?

Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Neither, since I don't do any of that stuff.

And what "stuff" would you be refering to. I'd submit you use a cell
phone whilst driving, as well as eating and all of th' other
distracting bull**** 4 wheelers do behind th' wheel. Now you ****ers
are texting while driving, which I heard is more dangerous than
drinking and driving. Oh joy, oh rapture.

I have, on the other hand, had cross traffic look directly at me - wait, and
then pull out.
Not while I was driving a car, of course.

Thanks for making my point. Or are you inferring that your
murdersickle made th' car driver want to kill you?

Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease. Inanimate objects
have absolutely zip to do with th' timing of th' inevitable outcome.
However stupidity does.

Snarl... as it should

"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
David Billington wrote:
Calif Bill wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message
...

"John R. Carroll" wrote:


What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Decent weather, no snow, I think I'd take my chances with the
motorcycle. I could out
brake, out accelerate, out steer, and fit through smaller gaps in
the traffic ahead.

In the case of a collision, I'd rather be thrown from the bike
rather than compacted in
the 'smart' coffin.

Wes


Actually the crash cage in the Smart seems to hold up well. But
anything inside the cage is broken as they is very little crash
deformation.



Not just a problem with the likes of Smart cars. In the UK some test
have been done with 4x4s hitting passenger cars and while the 4x4
looked relatively undamaged and the passenger car badly damaged, the
occupants of the 4x4 came off worse than the passenger car occupents.
These were older 4x4 with separate chassis and poor crumple
facilities so the occupants, well test dummies, were subjected to
higher decelerations which results in greater injury.

The short version of all this is lead, follow or get out of the way.
I wouldn't sat SMART is THE future, but something like it will be.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews


--
John R. Carroll



The problem with the electric cars, is electricity. Both the fact the range
is not that far and the other problem is the lack of electricity. Unless we
decide to build a bunch of Nuke plants or burn a lot more coal, there is not
going to be enough electricity to charge the cars. California has brown
outs now in the summer.

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

But, as you say, I was always very alert in that little sardine can.

Those with a clue are mindful of what they are driving. I'm pretty aware driving my
Saturn but when I rode a motorcycle, I was one switched on mind reading biker with a
healthy dose of paranoia. Ride a bike and you can see vacant minds from 200 feet away by
looking into their eyes. (Generally at intersections and driveways)

Wes

"Calif Bill" wrote:

In the case of a collision, I'd rather be thrown from the bike rather than
compacted in
the 'smart' coffin.

Wes

Actually the crash cage in the Smart seems to hold up well. But anything
inside the cage is broken as they is very little crash deformation.

I'm a big fan of cars designed to crumple up to a point, sucking up energy in deformation
while keeping passenger compartment integrity. I read an article in Scientific American a
while back about technology in the Mercedes that was designed to break away, crumple, ect
to protect the passengers. I'm not sure if that was a puff piece or what but if I had the
resources, I'd be driving the most survivable car on the market. I figure in my 26-30,000
miles a year of all winter, er all season (Freudian slip) driving a traffic accident is my
most likely chance of not drawing social security.

Wes

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of people that think
windmills and solar cells isn't viable technology?

Wes

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:26:28 -0500, "William Wixon"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling anything
"a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

texting on a motorcycle.

Is stupid. Texting while operating any moving vehicle is stupid.
Heard about some idiot who walked into an open manhole while texting
not too long ago. Prolly sued someone because that's what ya do now.

Up is down.

Snarl

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

As for getting thrown from a bike, who is going to take care of your drool
bucket?
That is the real choice.


The thought of deer strikes (likely) wiped out my desire to ride motorcycles a long time
ago.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 05:48:52 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

William Wixon wrote:
wrote in message
...

What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous! Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support, or
talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

texting on a motorcycle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amxE3RLAzQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xkf5d2aYzps

LOL
Lot's of stupid people in the world.
Some drive cars, other drive motorcycle.
Stupidity, not vehicle choice, is the common element

That's exactly what I'm talkin' about. Thanks again for making my
point.

although you could
argue that thinking a motorcycle is an equally safe form of conveyance
compared to a car, nearly any car, is arguably stupid.

No. You're th' one arguing in favor of a generalization. Pretty weak
way to stuff a straw man... don't you agree? By th' way, th' hay is
fallin' outta yer ass.

Snarl... you've gotta be smarter'n th' problem, son

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:40:39 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

But, as you say, I was always very alert in that little sardine can.

Those with a clue are mindful of what they are driving. I'm pretty aware driving my
Saturn but when I rode a motorcycle, I was one switched on mind reading biker with a
healthy dose of paranoia. Ride a bike and you can see vacant minds from 200 feet away by
looking into their eyes. (Generally at intersections and driveways)

Did you take any motorcycle rider training courses? Sounds like you
did. Any motorcycle rider who utilizes those skills, no matter what
they are operating, are better drivers. If I were King, everybody
behind th' wheel would have to ride a motorcycle for at least 3 months
per year or lose their license. Period.

We have superior skills. We have less potential distractions and stay
magnitudes times more focused than car drivers. There are stupid
people on motorcycles too, sooner or later Darwin will get them. I
firmly believe that stupid should be painful or worse.

Saw a guy get his arm ripped off in a 12 x 36 lathe and felt bad for
th' lathe.

Snarl

Wes wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of people that think
windmills and solar cells isn't viable technology?

Wes

They are viable if implemented properly, the problem is I see no
movement in the direction of implementing them properly.

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

As for getting thrown from a bike, who is going to take care of your drool
bucket?
That is the real choice.


The thought of deer strikes (likely) wiped out my desire to ride
motorcycles a long time
ago.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

As my wife stated about my motorcycle. You never fell off your race car.
And when I broke a rod and split the barrel when the rotary valve broke.
(Kawasaki 350) I luckily did not go down. The bike hopped a little, but
enough speed and weight that everything sort of broke apart, not locking up
the drive train. Decided that maybe 4 wheels were safer.

wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:23:52 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 14:50:08 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote in message
...
Joe AutoDrill wrote:
I saw a 'smart car' last week. It looked like a death trap and
the three wheel nuts thing
confirmed it.

1. We have 'em by the dozen here in NE NJ. The shock of seeing
them has worn off for me. Now, they're just little
go-carts-galore.

2. When I put a new gas tank on my six cylinder Honda Valkyrie
motorcycle a few months ago, I played with the idea of putting a
Smart Car emblem on there instead of the stock Valkyrie emblem.
Didn't do it, but hey... I thought it was funny.

They apparently toss the things in the canals as a drinking game
in Amsterdam.
I thought this was a joke when I first heard it but apparently
not.

I'm starting to see them here in LA which means there must be a
bunch of them on the road.

They breed, given a favorable climate and enough food. Then they
form herds. Soon, they will begin to mutate. The fear is they will
eventually become immune to antibiotics.

LOL
What I find extremely humorous is a guy with a motorcycle calling
anything "a death trap ".

Yeah, those motorcycle riders are dangerous!

Only to themselves and their families as a rule.
They are hard on deer as well.

Ah, yer one of those guys. Hate to tell ya, but yer "rule" is based
on a flawed premise. Let me guess, you *used* to ride, yes?

Used to and still do.


Everytime I see one the
guy is talking on a cell phone, or eating lunch, or reading a paper,
or texting, or putting on make-up, or changing the lumbar support,
or talking to the passenger.

Does stupid come natural to you, or are you taking a night class?

Neither, since I don't do any of that stuff.

And what "stuff" would you be refering to.

The stuff that you mentioned.

I'd submit you use a cell
phone whilst driving, as well as eating and all of th' other
distracting bull**** 4 wheelers do behind th' wheel. Now you ****ers
are texting while driving, which I heard is more dangerous than
drinking and driving. Oh joy, oh rapture.

Well, you can submit anything you want but I still don't.
I do, however, smoke.


I have, on the other hand, had cross traffic look directly at me -
wait, and then pull out.
Not while I was driving a car, of course.

Thanks for making my point. Or are you inferring that your
murdersickle made th' car driver want to kill you?

People frequently don't see motorcycles. I't a brain thing so you wouldn't
understand.
When you look around you tend to see the things you expect and your brain
sort of filters out anything you don't.
Has nothing to do with the rider.


--
John R. Carroll

Pete C. wrote:
Wes wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of
people that think windmills and solar cells isn't viable technology?

Wes

They are viable if implemented properly, the problem is I see no
movement in the direction of implementing them properly.

Trader Joe's is doing the PV thing right.
It's actually a third party solution, not theirs directly.
California has had solar plants since the 80's. PG&E and SDGE are just now
finishing up a 2Gw plant out in the dessert.


--
John R. Carroll

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:55:21 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of people that think
windmills and solar cells isn't viable technology?

C'mon, Wes. It's all viable energy. It's just not viable or reliable
BASE energy. For that, we need nuclear, which would preclude the need
for any bull**** carbon crap'n'trade.

--
Content thyself to be obscurely good. When vice prevails, and
impious men bear sway, the post of honor is a private station.
-- Joseph Addison, 'Cato'

Wes wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

But, as you say, I was always very alert in that little sardine can.

Those with a clue are mindful of what they are driving. I'm pretty aware driving my
Saturn but when I rode a motorcycle, I was one switched on mind reading biker with a
healthy dose of paranoia. Ride a bike and you can see vacant minds from 200 feet away by
looking into their eyes. (Generally at intersections and driveways)

Wes

Yup, My SOP on the wheel is to ride like the invisible man. I KNOW that
the cagers won't see me even if they are looking right at me. I KNOW
that they will cut into the lane next to me without noticing I am there.
BTDT more than once.
Of course I also love to ride and know I'm the only one who will look
out for me (unless I'm riding with a like minded group).

--
Steve W.

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Wes wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of
people that think windmills and solar cells isn't viable technology?

Wes

They are viable if implemented properly, the problem is I see no
movement in the direction of implementing them properly.

Trader Joe's is doing the PV thing right.
It's actually a third party solution, not theirs directly.
California has had solar plants since the 80's. PG&E and SDGE are just now
finishing up a 2Gw plant out in the dessert.

That's exactly what I mean by not implementing them properly.

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 03:19:10 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 18:23:52 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

snipp happened

And what "stuff" would you be refering to.

The stuff that you mentioned.

I'd submit you use a cell
phone whilst driving, as well as eating and all of th' other
distracting bull**** 4 wheelers do behind th' wheel. Now you ****ers
are texting while driving, which I heard is more dangerous than
drinking and driving. Oh joy, oh rapture.

Well, you can submit anything you want but I still don't.

Ok, so you are a perfect driver. Cool.

I do, however, smoke.

I quit back in March.

I have, on the other hand, had cross traffic look directly at me -
wait, and then pull out.
Not while I was driving a car, of course.

Thanks for making my point. Or are you inferring that your
murdersickle made th' car driver want to kill you?

People frequently don't see motorcycles. I't a brain thing so you wouldn't
understand.

I've been riding since th' early 60's. I was also an MSF advanced
motorcycle rider class instructor. I know a thing er two about what
people behind th' wheel do, and don't do.

When you look around you tend to see the things you expect and your brain
sort of filters out anything you don't.
Has nothing to do with the rider.

It has everything to do with th' rider and/or car driver. A vehicle
is only as safe as th' operator. I don't care if it's a ****ing Mack
truck or a tank. You insinuated that motorcycles are inherently
unsafe. I called bull****. Go have a smoke, strawman.

Snarl

Pete C. wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Wes wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of
people that think windmills and solar cells isn't viable
technology?

Wes

They are viable if implemented properly, the problem is I see no
movement in the direction of implementing them properly.

Trader Joe's is doing the PV thing right.
It's actually a third party solution, not theirs directly.
California has had solar plants since the 80's. PG&E and SDGE are
just now finishing up a 2Gw plant out in the dessert.

That's exactly what I mean by not implementing them properly.

?

--
John R. Carroll

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Wes wrote:

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of
people that think windmills and solar cells isn't viable
technology?

Wes

They are viable if implemented properly, the problem is I see no
movement in the direction of implementing them properly.

Trader Joe's is doing the PV thing right.
It's actually a third party solution, not theirs directly.
California has had solar plants since the 80's. PG&E and SDGE are
just now finishing up a 2Gw plant out in the dessert.

That's exactly what I mean by not implementing them properly.

Properly:

- No attempts at utility scale solar plants, they have too much
environmental impact and you still have transmission problems.

- Utilities place their utility scale plants on the roofs of existing
large area buildings, i.e. shopping malls, warehouses, etc. through some
combination of leasing the roof area and providing cheap power for the
building below. Keys here are no new environmental impact through the
use of existing roof area as well as improved transmission due to a
large building already having a large capacity feeder and being able to
export power over it sun up and still have adequate capacity to pull
from the grid sun down.

- All residential housing gets roofed with solar panels and linked with
grid-tie inverters. Could be utility provided / managed with cost offset
or government subsidized. Keys here are again utilizing existing surface
area as well as the distributed nature greatly helping grid capacity.

- The same overall structure applies for wind generation in areas where
decent wind resources are available.

Of course underlying all of this should be clean, safe nuke generation
for baseline loads and the elimination of all coal, oil and nat gas
based utility scale generation.

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:03:38 -0700, wrote:

big snip
If I were King, everybody
behind th' wheel would have to ride a motorcycle for at least 3 months
per year or lose their license. Period.

I would be happy if everyone had to pass the CDL written
test...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 03:19:10 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

big snip
People frequently don't see motorcycles. I't a brain thing so you wouldn't
understand.
When you look around you tend to see the things you expect and your brain
sort of filters out anything you don't.
Has nothing to do with the rider.

They see them just fine John, but they really don't care
what happens to other people, just themselves. They know the
motorcycle can't hurt them and most likely will do anything
to avoid hitting them. I've had people flip me the bird
after pulling out in front of me, to the point I had to
squeal tires to avoid a collision. When you are riding a
motorcycle you have to always be thinking what if...

Some people don't even care about themselves. I've had
people look me square in the eye and pull out in front of my
old pickup truck with a 6 inch pipe bumper on the front. It
would cream the side of their car, drivers side no less and
wouldn't take me more than a can of spray paint to repair.
People that don't see you, don't flip you the bird
afterwards.

When I worked on the farm years ago, my boss told about
riding with his mother-inlaw. She famously pulled out in
front of an oncoming vehicle, close call and he asked her
"didn't you see that car coming?" To which she replied, "Oh
he's got brakes!"

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Wes wrote:
"Calif Bill" wrote:


In the case of a collision, I'd rather be thrown from the bike rather than
compacted in
the 'smart' coffin.

Wes

Actually the crash cage in the Smart seems to hold up well. But anything
inside the cage is broken as they is very little crash deformation.


I'm a big fan of cars designed to crumple up to a point, sucking up energy in deformation
while keeping passenger compartment integrity. I read an article in Scientific American a
while back about technology in the Mercedes that was designed to break away, crumple, ect
to protect the passengers. I'm not sure if that was a puff piece or what but if I had the
resources, I'd be driving the most survivable car on the market. I figure in my 26-30,000
miles a year of all winter, er all season (Freudian slip) driving a traffic accident is my
most likely chance of not drawing social security.

Wes

I went to the German museum in Munich some years back and remember
seeing a display about automotive stuff. One of the item was about crash
protection and Mercedes. They decided to do a crash test ,in the 1950s
IIRC, and the result pleased the engineers initially, minimal structural
deformation, great, then someone thought about what that meant for the
passengers with the high decellerations they would have been subject to
as a result of very little energy absorbance. Pulped, through the
windsreen, or serious internal injuries. Crash protection then started
to become a design objective.

Wes wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

I thing they just got the money to build vehicles as
part of the Green Energy nonsense.

John, you give me hope for you. Can I count you in the group of
people that think windmills and solar cells isn't viable technology?

I don't know about that Wes but you can count me in the group that would
have you paying a 100 percent tax on every gallon of gasoline or diesel you
put in your car.


--
John R. Carroll