My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever owned
where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through pulling on
a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the dash or
stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point where
I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than with my
own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this beast
yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

mmm, ford has a better idea...


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
news:RdKdnRlyRKOHjovVnZ2dnUVZ_uKpnZ2d@choiceonecom munications...
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever owned
where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through pulling on a
lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the dash or stepped
on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated parking
brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point where I
find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than with my own
tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this beast yet, and
may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever owned
where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through pulling on
a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the dash or
stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point where
I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than with my
own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this beast
yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

It's a real work of art. Basically what you have is a set of springs
that get compressed by a motor controlled by that switch. When you push
the button the motor releases the springs and pulls the parking brake
cables tight (like you would if you stepped on a pedal or pulled the
lever) when you hit the button to release them the motor compresses the
springs and releases the tension on the cable. You have NO control over
the apply pressure though. They are ON/OFF. Kind of like an electric
version of the spring brakes on big rigs.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

Steve W. wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


It's a real work of art. Basically what you have is a set of springs
that get compressed by a motor controlled by that switch. When you push
the button the motor releases the springs and pulls the parking brake
cables tight (like you would if you stepped on a pedal or pulled the
lever) when you hit the button to release them the motor compresses the
springs and releases the tension on the cable. You have NO control over
the apply pressure though. They are ON/OFF. Kind of like an electric
version of the spring brakes on big rigs.


Thanks, but it does make me wonder why they went to what seems to me
like an overkill design.

Now I can spend my time worrying about that motor, switch or wiring
deciding to crappe out after the parking brake is ON and preventing me
from driving the car.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
..

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever owned
where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through pulling on
a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the dash or
stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point where
I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than with my
own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this beast
yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:56:58 GMT, "Jon"
wrote:

mmm, ford has a better idea...


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
news:RdKdnRlyRKOHjovVnZ2dnUVZ_uKpnZ2d@choiceoneco mmunications...
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever owned
where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through pulling on a
lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the dash or stepped
on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated parking
brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point where I
find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than with my own
tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this beast yet, and
may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.




I sure hope it cannot be applied with the vehicle in motion. I've seen
what happens when a "line lock" (or "staging brake") gets applied with
the pedal down at speed. Not fun.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

JR North wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Steve W." wrote:

It's a real work of art. Basically what you have is a set of springs
that get compressed by a motor controlled by that switch. When you push
the button the motor releases the springs and pulls the parking brake
cables tight (like you would if you stepped on a pedal or pulled the
lever) when you hit the button to release them the motor compresses the
springs and releases the tension on the cable. You have NO control over
the apply pressure though. They are ON/OFF. Kind of like an electric
version of the spring brakes on big rigs.

A parking (aka emergincy brake) like that seems like a tort lawyers dream.
I'm not impressed one bit.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Pete Keillor wrote:

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

It is a lot of fun on an icy, snowy parking lot. About all you can do with a
front wheel drive econobox.

Wes

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:37:44 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

JR North wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor

"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:37:44 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

JR North wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor

You can do that to get a beetle to snap around... Um, I would imagine =)

JR North wrote:
Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

The Ford system is a mechanical one. Just like any U.S. sold vehicle.
They all are required by Federal law to have a mechanical and separate
from the main braking system, parking brake, Ford is about as close as
you can get to the limit of legal though.

I wouldn't trust the current parking brake systems on most vehicles to
actually hold the vehicle on any incline.

--
Steve W.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:31:09 -0400, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:37:44 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

JR North wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that.

We do that routinely in the northland during the winter. Works a
treat in a parkinglot with a front-wheel-drive vehicle. Release brake
and apply accelerator gently, skid stops and vehicle proceeds in new
direction.

"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:37:44 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

JR North wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor

That was SOP in dirt-road rally driving and in ice racing back in the '60s
and '70s. I used it ice racing around 1970. Some people would remove the
ratchet dog on the handbrake so it didn't lock up on you if you slipped.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:31:09 -0400, Pete Keillor
wrote:


It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor


Worked great with VW bugs

Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

I wouldn't trust the current parking brake systems on most vehicles to
actually hold the vehicle on any incline.


Especially if you 'forgot' to release the brake at one time or another.
My used Explorer arrived with the incinerated remains of the e-brake
shoes rattling around inside the drum. Made a marvelous crunching sound.

Steve W. wrote:

JR North wrote:

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor
to set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a
pox and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency
Brakes'-just pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables
seize up from water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't
win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.


The Ford system is a mechanical one. Just like any U.S. sold vehicle.
They all are required by Federal law to have a mechanical and separate
from the main braking system, parking brake, Ford is about as close as
you can get to the limit of legal though.


Does that mean that the "switch" I lift up with my fingertips to set the
parking brake is a purely mechanical releasing of those brake applying
springs you described earlier in this thread, so it can function even in
the absense of electrical power?

And then. when I move the "switch" to release the parking brake
electricity takes over and the motor pulls back on the springs?

An added safety feature I've noted is that the parking brake won't
release If I'm not pressing the brake pedal. A message comes up on the
dash display telling me to step on the pedal if I'm not already.

The whole getup still seems to me too much like, "The answer to the
question nobody asked."



I wouldn't trust the current parking brake systems on most vehicles to
actually hold the vehicle on any incline.


Having spent my younger years in San Francisco, I learned to "curb my
wheels" on hills a long time ago.

Jeff


--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Gunner Asch" wrote: Worked great with VW bugs
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I used it a lot when I dr5ove my bug in sports car rallies. The reaswon it
works so well is the car wants to overtsteer anyway, so all it takes is a
gentle pull on the handbrake lever to get the rear end sliding out. I
discovered it by accident when I was experiencing brake fading, and decided
to cool the front brakes by using the handbrake only. Driving became much
more fun after that. The nice thing is that the odo drive on a bug is front
wheel only, so sliding the rear wheels does not affect the odometer.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 14:12:15 -0400, Jeff Wisnia wrote:

My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever owned
where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through pulling on
a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the dash or
stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point where
I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than with my
own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this beast
yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff

This sounds like a totally dumb idea to me.

I want to be able to FEEL what's going on with the parking brake - on a
steep hill, I pull extra notches.

And as my dad used to say about machinery "the more guts, the more
bellyaches".

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:15:02 -0400, Wes wrote:

Pete Keillor wrote:

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

It is a lot of fun on an icy, snowy parking lot. About all you can do with a
front wheel drive econobox.

Wes


Rallying the old Renault R12 back in the late '70s and early '80s I
used the handbrake a LOT. Modified so the button had to be held IN to
latch it. Just pull and release to let it off.
HandBrake turns were fun on the Mini too - the guy I sold it to did a
handbrake turn in a donut shop driveway and caught a pothole going
sideways. Folded the subframe right under the car. I had a few hours
of paying work getting a spare out of a wreck and replacing it for
him!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:31:09 -0400, Pete Keillor
wrote:

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.
Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor


Worked great with VW bugs

Gunner


Especially if you installed the split control levers so you could apply
each one separately.
It's still a favorite item on stunt vehicles. One of the few ways you
can do reliable reverse 90 and 180 turns.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Wes wrote:
Pete Keillor wrote:


Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.


It is a lot of fun on an icy, snowy parking lot. About all you can do with a
front wheel drive econobox.

Wes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6k8GtqWH9A

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
Steve W. wrote:

JR North wrote:

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor
to set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake
(a pox and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency
Brakes'-just pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables
seize up from water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really
can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.


The Ford system is a mechanical one. Just like any U.S. sold vehicle.
They all are required by Federal law to have a mechanical and separate
from the main braking system, parking brake, Ford is about as close as
you can get to the limit of legal though.


Does that mean that the "switch" I lift up with my fingertips to set the
parking brake is a purely mechanical releasing of those brake applying
springs you described earlier in this thread, so it can function even in
the absense of electrical power?

NOPE. If I remember it correctly there is a manual way to release it on
the brake unit. Been a while since I looked at one.


And then. when I move the "switch" to release the parking brake
electricity takes over and the motor pulls back on the springs?

An added safety feature I've noted is that the parking brake won't
release If I'm not pressing the brake pedal. A message comes up on the
dash display telling me to step on the pedal if I'm not already.

That is due to the way the system works. They want the service brakes on
when you release the P-brake so you don't damage any hardware in the back.


The whole getup still seems to me too much like, "The answer to the
question nobody asked."

Yep, Just one more "technological advancement" in search of a home.
About like the self parking system offered on a couple high end
vehicles. Or the quadra-steer system on the GM trucks.




I wouldn't trust the current parking brake systems on most vehicles to
actually hold the vehicle on any incline.


Having spent my younger years in San Francisco, I learned to "curb my
wheels" on hills a long time ago.

Jeff




--
Steve W.

Pete Keillor wrote:

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor
I believe that was common with SAAB drivers. Start the turn and jerk
the "emergency" brake lever and it'd break the rear loose and round
it'd come. This was in the late 50s. I had a GT850 but wasen't into
that sort of driving. Gymkannas etc.
...lew...

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
Worked great with VW bugs

Gunner

Worked great on all the V-dubs. But you had to remember to push in the
clutch or the motor would stall. ;-)
You could also go backwards, yank the brake, turn the steering wheel to
get the car to turn around. Put it in forward gear and keep on going
forward without stopping. Wife hates it when I do that with her in the
car. BG

B

". Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.


hate to tell you this but I've used said hand operated brakes several times
in emergency situations - when brake pedal didn't work - while they have
less stopping power than the hydraulics, on all my cars they will in fact
slow the car down and eventually stop it - designs vary of course- on my
suburban (and cadillacs) it's cable operated and activates rear drums, on my
german car it operates a dedicated set of shoes in the rear, on my chrysler
products it operates either an expanding set of shoes or a contracting band
on a special brake directly behind the transmission (and generally covered
with oil) and I honestly don't remember what it does on my morgan - though
that one is a true racing brake as opposed to parking/emergency brake ---
but every one of them stops the car with resonable control - you just gotta
remember to not latch them up at speed.

maybe the difference is that where I live any rust is top down not bottom up


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Pete Keillor
wrote on Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:31:09 -0400
in rec.crafts.metalworking :

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

That will make things break, yupper.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

I've done that. Yank the parking brake, spin the steering wheel,
swap ends. With practice, you then are able to drop the brake, and
hit the gas, now headed back the way you came.

I also recall seeing a Citroen, front wheel drive, with the back
wheels locked up, and the front wheels pulling the car around the
corner and up to the garage. (It was a very snowy night, and roads
were slick.)

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

Steve W. wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Jeff


It's a real work of art. Basically what you have is a set of springs
that get compressed by a motor controlled by that switch. When you push
the button the motor releases the springs and pulls the parking brake
cables tight (like you would if you stepped on a pedal or pulled the
lever) when you hit the button to release them the motor compresses the
springs and releases the tension on the cable. You have NO control over
the apply pressure though. They are ON/OFF. Kind of like an electric
version of the spring brakes on big rigs.


Thanks, but it does make me wonder why they went to what seems to me
like an overkill design.

Now I can spend my time worrying about that motor, switch or wiring
deciding to crappe out after the parking brake is ON and preventing me
from driving the car.

Jeff
How else they gonna justify charging ya $43,000 for a vehicle that's
worth $18,000????
Ken.

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:31:09 -0400, Pete Keillor
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:37:44 -0700, Tim Wescott
wrote:

JR North wrote:
(top posting fixed)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
My curious mind just wants to know....

I aquired a used 2004 Lincoln LS and it's the first car I've ever
owned where the parking brake wasn't applied "mechanically" through
pulling on a lever pivoted near the floor or pulled out from under the
dash or stepped on with my left foot.

What's the operating system which responds to the finger operated
parking brake switch located on the console and puts on the parking
brake?

Is it as foolproof as the older style mechanically operated "emergency
brakes"?

Since automotive technology and complexity has advanced to a point
where I find myself "fixing my cars with my checkbook" more often than
with my own tools, I haven't bothered to aquire a shop manual for this
beast yet, and may never, so I can't look there.

Thanks guys,

Simple system that uses the ABS to pump and lock hydraulically either
end or all brakes. Just peachy until some component bleeds down from
age and the brakes let off. I suppose, though, the system would watch
for that with a sensor, and keep the pressure up. Ha, another sensor to
set off the MIL and cost bucks to replace. Of course, park brake (a pox
and a scourge of rust on anyone who calls them 'Emergency Brakes'-just
pull one in an emergency and see what happens) cables seize up from
water/salt intrusion in the cables, so you really can't win...anyway...
JR
Dweller in the cellar
.

It's called an "emergency break" because if you try to use it, you
create an emergency.

Years ago I read in Car & Driver of a rally driver who used the lever
type to force his front wheel drive rally car into oversteer to get
the tail out in corners. Supposedly he got around quicker that way. I
doubt the average hard surface driver should try that. I wonder if he
ever forgot to hold the release button in. Nahhh.

Pete Keillor
It would have been a "flyoff handbrake" I had one on my TR3A many many
years ago. The button on the top engaged the ratchet not disengaged.

--

Richard

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