I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

On Apr 16, 9:43 am, stryped wrote:
I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if

I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

Just a nit, but "over engineering" would be if you optimized the heck
out of it. This is "under engineering" or just brute strength
designing (if you can even call it that).

Over engineered would be a aluminum tube space frame, stressed member,
composite deck, etc.... to carry your lawnmower.

Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

JW

On Apr 16, 2:09*pm, jw wrote:
On Apr 16, 9:43 am, stryped wrote:

I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if

I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

Just a nit, but "over engineering" would be if you optimized the heck
out of it. *This is "under engineering" or just brute strength
designing (if you can even call it that).

Over engineered would be a aluminum tube space frame, stressed member,
composite deck, etc.... to carry your lawnmower.

Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

JW

Is it a bad idea?

You never want to bolt through a round, square, or rectangular tube
without welding in a spacer bushing to keep the opposite walls from
collapsing.

stryped wrote:
I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

jw wrote:

On Apr 16, 9:43 am, stryped wrote:

I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if


I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.


Just a nit, but "over engineering" would be if you optimized the heck
out of it. This is "under engineering" or just brute strength
designing (if you can even call it that).

Over engineered would be a aluminum tube space frame, stressed member,
composite deck, etc.... to carry your lawnmower.

Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

JW

Well, I could care less.

And you ever notice how often we say 'no' when we mean 'yes'?
No, its true!

--Winston

stryped wrote:
On Apr 16, 2:09 pm, jw wrote:
On Apr 16, 9:43 am, stryped wrote:

I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.
Just a nit, but "over engineering" would be if you optimized the heck
out of it. This is "under engineering" or just brute strength
designing (if you can even call it that).

Over engineered would be a aluminum tube space frame, stressed member,
composite deck, etc.... to carry your lawnmower.

Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

JW

Is it a bad idea?

Properly welded you don't need the bolt. Get it welded RIGHT and forget
the bolts and associated gadgets. If you don't trust some weld, i.e.
the strength of a corner, use bracing across the corners - also welded.
Don't forget the plate on the top is going to be some reinforcing for
the whole frame.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:09:32 -0700 (PDT) in rec.crafts.metalworking,
jw wrote,
Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

"Over engineered" does not mean too much engineering. It means
engineered to meet requirements way "over" the actual real
requirements. HTH. HAND.

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:43:15 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.
A bolted joint takes some engineering too.
Don't want the bolt just squeezing the tubing.
If you can't trust your welding design for a properly bolted trailer
and use the weld as a backup, not the other way around If bolting
through tubeing, drill your holes big enough to put a pipe with the ID
to fit your bolts. Weld the "bushing" into the tube, grind the ends
smooth, and bolt it together with washers under head and nut. This way
you will not collapse the tube.

Or just use channel. On some channel you need tapered washers on the
inside because the "legs" of the channel are tapered.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:09:32 -0700 (PDT), jw
wrote:

On Apr 16, 9:43 am, stryped wrote:
I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if

I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

Just a nit, but "over engineering" would be if you optimized the heck
out of it. This is "under engineering" or just brute strength
designing (if you can even call it that).

Over engineered would be a aluminum tube space frame, stressed member,
composite deck, etc.... to carry your lawnmower.

Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

JW

It's called "over built and under-engineered"
East german and russian comes to mind.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

stryped, you absolutely need to make a scale drawing of your trailer,
an post it here for some comments, before proceeding. I did that and
am glad that at least there was somne discussion, before making my
trailer. It seems to be holding up fine so far.

drawing here

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...th-M105A2-Bed/

i

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:29:50 -0700, David Harmon
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:09:32 -0700 (PDT) in rec.crafts.metalworking,
jw wrote,
Never understood why something that was nearly the opposite of
engineered was "over engineered".

"Over engineered" does not mean too much engineering. It means
engineered to meet requirements way "over" the actual real
requirements. HTH. HAND.

With 1/4 inch wall tube perhaps it could be drilled and tapped and
assembled with cap screws. Then weld the cap screws in so they can't
loosen and fall out, and put a couple of good beads in for good
measure. That way you can assemble it loosely, square it up, tighten
it, and weld it. Gussets can easily be put on then after it it is
squared Match drill to tap drill size, remove gusset, tap rail and
ream gusset to fit bolt. Bolt on the gusset, and then weld as
previously described.

Or lay it all out, drill and tap and assemble with gussets - make sure
everything is square, tighten all the cap screws, THEN weld the
mitered inner and outer corners and everything you can reach with the
gussets on, remove the gusset, weld the rest, grind joint smooth where
gusset fits, bolt on the gusset, and then weld the gusse on as well.

Basically your bolted gussets "fixture" the assembly for welding, and
the provide a bit of "feel-good" backup. Use half inch UNF cap screws.
Just make sure you are not trying to drill and tap the welded seam of
the tube!!!!!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:43:15 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

You never just drill through both walls of structural tubing and put
a bolt through side to side - that collapses the tubing, and when it
is deformed the strength goes away. You need to put a sleeve of pipe
or heavy round tubing through the holes and seal weld the sleeve at
both ends where it passes through the chassis.

This puts the clamping force of the bolt into the sleeve and not the
chassis tubing, and the chassis tubing will retain it's shape and
therefore strength.

If you want to attach something bolted, the other acceptable methods
are welding on a flat strap stock bracket with a hole, or welding a
nut to the rail and attaching with a bolt, or placing the sleeve on
the side of the tubing and welding the sides down...

Fort the corners, I would use fishplates along the sides of the
tubing to overlap the mating welds, not gussets that cut across the
inside of the mating angle.

Fishplates are always cut with a diamond profile on the ends
That spreads out the strength along a longer weld path, straight cut
ends [ ] just move the stress instead of spreading it out.

Hey Stryped: See if there are any Welding or Metal Fabrication or
Industrial Design classes at your local High School Adult Extension,
Community College or University Extension, etc. There are SO many
little details to doing this right, and we'll all get carpal tunnel
from the typing if we try to explain it all.

And if we miss something critical or you don't understand it, you
could still end up with a 'two piece trailer'. Which would be bad.

-- Bruce --

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

On 2008-04-17, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

The poor man's version of destructive testing, involves a vise and a
hammer to bend the pieces.

Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

On Apr 17, 6:45*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

Any way I can do this with a floor jack?

On Apr 16, 9:36*pm, Ignoramus12441 ignoramus12...@NOSPAM.
12441.invalid wrote:
stryped, you absolutely need to make a scale drawing of your trailer,
an post it here for some comments, before proceeding. I did that and
am glad that at least there was somne discussion, before making my
trailer. It seems to be holding up fine so far.

drawing here

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Home...th-M105A2-Bed/

i

That is nice trailer. I have been studying books. I even have the old
“ARC WELDED PROJECTS” book Lincoln put out many years ago.

I like how your center tongue almost goes through the entire length of
the frame. I have seen that before, I have seen people just use an “A”
frame with no center with the A butt welded to the front frame cross
piece. I have seen an “A” welded underneath the frame. Underneath the
frame is what I was thinking of doing. I would actually prefer the
center tongue through the whole thing as in the ignoramous military
trailer example, but I don’t think I have a long enough piece to do
that. I was thinking that if I did the A frame underneath, I could
bolt for good measure.

Speaking of that someone in this thread mention using ½ inch bolts and
threading the holes so the both does not have to go through both sides
of the tubing. I like this idea. In the case of a failed weld or a
partial failed weld, would this realisticly hold a loaded trailer
togther or is it just for “psycologicla comfort”? It would help line
everything up before final welding.

As a side note, when welding I aways use “circles”, basically weaving
circles up the joint. Is this a good idea? FWIW I seem to be able to
weld eaier with my 6010 rods than 7018. Why would that be? My rods are
about 4 years old and have been sitting in a closet inside my house.
Are they still ok?

Thanks for your help and time. I am learning a lot. Maybe I could post
a sample weld of mine and you could critique it?

On Apr 17, 7:12*am, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29232.invalid wrote:
On 2008-04-17, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

The poor man's version of destructive testing, involves a vise and a
hammer to bend the pieces.

Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:35:18 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Apr 17, 7:12*am, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29232.invalid wrote:
On 2008-04-17, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

The poor man's version of destructive testing, involves a vise and a
hammer to bend the pieces.

Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?

Yes if there's a tension membrane there to provide shear strength.
Heavy gauge sheetmetal or 3/4 CDX Plywood (treated and painted),
fastened every three to six inches along the perimeter.

Or build the sidewall frames out of angle iron and place angle iron
cross bracing to turn the trailer sides into a big triangular truss.
Have the truss rods start at the top at the center upright of the
trailer sloping down to the tongue and tail, so they are under tension
when the trailer is heavily loaded. The center upright should be
roughly over the axle(s) to send the force down.

Oh, and another way to gusset a tubing structure neatly at a 90 or
acute angle (trailer A to chassis) is to cut a "Cheese Wedge" out of
the same size tubing with the outer wall intact. Then weld it inside
the corner after welding and finish grinding the main joint.

Paint the 'inside' areas of frame and gusset with red primer before
closing it up, try to keep the rust from starting. Can be sloppy or
runny, nobody will /ever/ see it. You hope. ;-)

-- Bruce --

On 2008-04-17, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:12•£Äam, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?


Yes, Let's say your trailer's frame looks like this (looking from the
side):


#####################

If, instead, you make it look like this by adding a side:



|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|
#####################

made from much smaller material, say 1/8" thick 1" square tubing, or
even 1" angle, the frame will be a lot stiffer, without too much extra
cost. On my trailer, this function is performed by the unibody bed.

i

On Apr 17, 8:22*am, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 6:45*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

Any way I can do this with a floor jack?

I was practicing on 3/16" and 1/4" plate from the school's scrap pile.
For 1/8" material you can use a vise like Iggy suggested.

Jim Wilkins

On 2008-04-17, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:22•£Äam, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 6:45•£Äam, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

Any way I can do this with a floor jack?

I was practicing on 3/16" and 1/4" plate from the school's scrap pile.
For 1/8" material you can use a vise like Iggy suggested.

Jim Wilkins

I would love to have access to a pile like that.

i

On Apr 17, 12:07*pm, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29232.invalid wrote:
On 2008-04-17, stryped wrote:

On Apr 17, 7:12•£Äam, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?

Yes, Let's say your trailer's frame looks like this (looking from the
side):

#####################

If, instead, you make it look like this by adding a side:

|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|
#####################

made from much smaller material, say 1/8" thick 1" square tubing, or
even 1" angle, the frame will be a lot stiffer, without too much extra
cost. On my trailer, this function is performed by the unibody bed. *

i

The ends should be triangles instead of rectangles. Otherwise this is
a common way to build a trailer for heavy loads.

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:35:18 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Apr 17, 7:12Â*am, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29232.invalid wrote:
On 2008-04-17, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

The poor man's version of destructive testing, involves a vise and a
hammer to bend the pieces.

Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?

As long as it forms a truss it will add strength. a simple square rail
will not do anything *untill you bolt a plywood web in - then the
plywood adds some regidity)
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:07:02 -0500, Ignoramus29232
wrote:

On 2008-04-17, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:12€¢Â£Ã„am, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?


Yes, Let's say your trailer's frame looks like this (looking from the
side):


#####################

If, instead, you make it look like this by adding a side:



|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|
#####################

made from much smaller material, say 1/8" thick 1" square tubing, or
even 1" angle, the frame will be a lot stiffer, without too much extra
cost. On my trailer, this function is performed by the unibody bed.

i


/!----!----!\
############# is a lot stonger
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Apr 17, 10:43*am, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 05:35:18 -0700 (PDT), stryped





wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:12*am, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
29232.invalid wrote:
On 2008-04-17, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, ...

I have, intentionally, to see how good the weld was. The welding shop
at the local high school has a 50 ton press for testing weld samples
to destruction. I didn't weld my front end loader's frame until I
could make a butt joint with 7018 that could be bend over double. At
home you can use a hydraulic jack to stretch a test structure out of
shape. Just don't get hit by flying pieces.

Jim Wilkins

The poor man's version of destructive testing, involves a vise and a
hammer to bend the pieces.

Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?

* Yes if there's a tension membrane there to provide shear strength.
Heavy gauge sheetmetal or 3/4 CDX Plywood (treated and painted),
fastened every three to six inches along the perimeter.

* Or build the sidewall frames out of angle iron and place angle iron
cross bracing to turn the trailer sides into a big triangular truss.
Have the truss rods start at the top at the center upright of the
trailer sloping down to the tongue and tail, so they are under tension
when the trailer is heavily loaded. *The center upright should be
roughly over the axle(s) to send the force down.

* Oh, and another way to gusset a tubing structure neatly at a 90 or
acute angle (trailer A to chassis) is to cut a "Cheese Wedge" out of
the same size tubing with the outer wall intact. *Then weld it inside
the corner after welding and finish grinding the main joint.

* Paint the 'inside' areas of frame and gusset with red primer before
closing it up, try to keep the rust from starting. *Can be sloppy or
runny, nobody will /ever/ see it. * * *You hope. *;-)

* * *-- Bruce --- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You lost me a little bit. DO you have an example?

Should you really grind a weld after you are finished?

By cheesewedge are you just talkign about using tubing instead of a
solid plate gusset?

On 2008-04-17, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada clare wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:07:02 -0500, Ignoramus29232
wrote:

On 2008-04-17, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:12?£Äam, Ignoramus29232 ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
Also, to the OP, if you add some sides to your trailer, they can
increase its strength considerably, without adding too much weight.

i

I never thought of that. Even the simple angle iron sides?


Yes, Let's say your trailer's frame looks like this (looking from the
side):


#####################

If, instead, you make it look like this by adding a side:



|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|~~~|
#####################

made from much smaller material, say 1/8" thick 1" square tubing, or
even 1" angle, the frame will be a lot stiffer, without too much extra
cost. On my trailer, this function is performed by the unibody bed.

i


/!----!----!\
############# is a lot stonger
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Yes, I agree totally.

i

You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers


"stryped" wrote in message
...
I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the
bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.

On Apr 17, 1:31*pm, "Jon" wrote:
You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: *go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

"stryped" wrote in message

...



I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the
bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have looked on lots. There are as many designs as I have questions.

One question by the way, would it be stupid to put a dovetail and a
fold down gate on a 10 foot trailer? And if I did have a dovetail,
when calculating the axle placement using the 60/40 rule, do you
consider the dovetail in terms of the total length?

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:03:38 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Apr 17, 1:31Â*pm, "Jon" wrote:
You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: Â*go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

"stryped" wrote in message

...



I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the
bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have looked on lots. There are as many designs as I have questions.

One question by the way, would it be stupid to put a dovetail and a
fold down gate on a 10 foot trailer? And if I did have a dovetail,
when calculating the axle placement using the 60/40 rule, do you
consider the dovetail in terms of the total length?


Depends ENTIRELY how you intend to load it.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

In article WHMNj.13877$El4.7004@trnddc05,
Jon wrote:
You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

I found two Northern Hydraulics. northernhydraulics.net in MT, and
northernhydraulics.com in Ireland. I couldn't find any books on either
web site. Did I miss something?

--
-Ed Falk,
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article WHMNj.13877$El4.7004@trnddc05,
Jon wrote:

You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers


I found two Northern Hydraulics. northernhydraulics.net in MT, and
northernhydraulics.com in Ireland. I couldn't find any books on either
web site. Did I miss something?


Try:
http://www.northerntool.com/

--Winston

On Apr 17, 10:27*pm, (Edward A. Falk) wrote:
In article WHMNj.13877$El4.7004@trnddc05,

Jon wrote:
You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: *go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

I found two Northern Hydraulics. *northernhydraulics.net in MT, and
northernhydraulics.com in Ireland. *I couldn't find any books on either
web site. *Did I miss something?

--
* * * * -Ed Falk,
* * * *http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

They changed their name.
http://www.northerntool.com

Jim Wilkins

On Apr 17, 1:23*pm, stryped wrote:
Should you really grind a weld after you are finished?

Grind the exposed rough ones that could cut you or snag on your
clothes. You will also have a better surface to paint.

On Apr 17, 5:37*pm, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:03:38 -0700 (PDT),stryped





wrote:
On Apr 17, 1:31*pm, "Jon" wrote:
You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: *go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

"stryped" wrote in message

....

I am just thinking here about that trailer. I may never build it but
if
I did get materials and did try to make it out of that 2x2 or 2x3
square tubing, what if I mafe a triangle gusset for each corner on the
bottom.
Drilled through the top tubing through the gusset, then installed a
grade 5 carriage bolt or something. Then welded the whole thing also? I
guess I am trying to "over engineer' it. I can weld, but have never had
training. I have never had anything really come apart that I have
welded, but on something like a trailer, I would like to take every
precaution I could.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have looked on lots. There are as many designs as I have questions.

One question by the way, would it be stupid to put a dovetail and a
fold down gate on a 10 foot trailer? And if I did have a dovetail,
when calculating the axle placement using the 60/40 rule, do you
consider the dovetail in terms of the total length?

Depends ENTIRELY how you intend to load it.
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would guess most of the time the load would be on the regular part
of the bed. The dovetail would just be there if I ever had to load my
8n tractor on it.

Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

I found two Northern Hydraulics. *northernhydraulics.net in MT, and
northernhydraulics.com in Ireland. *I couldn't find any books on either
web site. *Did I miss something?

http://northerntool.com/
These guys keep changing their name. Their old name was "Northern
Hydraulics", which is what most of us still think of them as, but
mostly I think they just call themselves "Northern" now.
--Glenn Lyford

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:23:31, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43*am, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:

* Oh, and another way to gusset a tubing structure neatly at a 90 or
acute angle (trailer A to chassis) is to cut a "Cheese Wedge" out of
the same size tubing with the outer wall intact. *Then weld it inside
the corner after welding and finish grinding the main joint.

* Paint the 'inside' areas of frame and gusset with red primer before
closing it up, try to keep the rust from starting. *Can be sloppy or
runny, nobody will /ever/ see it. * * *You hope. *;-)

You lost me a little bit. DO you have an example?

By cheese wedge are you just talkign about using tubing instead of a
solid plate gusset?

Yes - you take the same square tubing and set the compound angle on
your saw to match the inside of the join, and you take off the ends of
the tubing to look like a wedge sliced from a square pizza. Or a
slice of cake. You leave the top and bottom (triangular) and one
side. Then you weld that wedge to the inside of the corner.

Should you really grind a weld after you are finished?

Always. If you did it right (even if a bit sloppily) you will clean
off the bumps and slag spatter, and make a surface that can be painted
easily. If you went for good penetration of the parent metal you can
also grind the joint down totally flat and it will look like one piece
that curves.

And if the weld is bad, you'll see it right away and can fix it. If
the weld metal didn't penetrate and stick to the parent metal, the
wheel will peel it right off. Or you'll see big bubbles and holes
that were hiding under the surface...

It takes a LOT of practice to get beautiful tightly whorled weld
beads where it won't need at least a little grinder clean-up.

When you get that good where you want people to see the stitching,
you just hit it with the knotted wire wheel (used for surface prep
before welding) to knock off the spatter dingleberries and call it
done.

-- Bruce --

Edward A. Falk wrote:
In article WHMNj.13877$El4.7004@trnddc05,
Jon wrote:
You're starting to make me nervous?
In what part of the country will you be towing this thing?

My recommendation: go to a lot that sells new trailers. Look. Learn.
Northern hydraulics sells a book that teaches building trailers

I found two Northern Hydraulics. northernhydraulics.net in MT, and
northernhydraulics.com in Ireland. I couldn't find any books on either
web site. Did I miss something?


Northern Hydraulics, In Raleigh, NC, changed their name several years
ago to Northern Tool and Equipment. http://www.northerntool.com/

A search for books took me to a 161 url. Shortened it is
http://tinyurl.com/5rhrz2 You'll need BOTH book 1 & 2. I got book 1
some time ago and found it takes you to a certain point and bacically
says you need book 2! ;-)

stryped wrote:

I have looked on lots. There are as many designs as I have questions.
One question by the way, would it be stupid to put a dovetail and a
fold down gate on a 10 foot trailer? And if I did have a dovetail,
when calculating the axle placement using the 60/40 rule, do you
consider the dovetail in terms of the total length?
Depends ENTIRELY how you intend to load it.
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would guess most of the time the load would be on the regular part
of the bed. The dovetail would just be there if I ever had to load my
8n tractor on it.

The dovetail has weight and affects the balance of the trailer. Figure
it out. If your trailer is only 10' long you won't have much room to
shift your load back and forth without being on the dovetail. Plus
you'll probably wind up with some kind of ramps - also heavy - probably
attached to the rear.

On Apr 18, 10:52*am, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:23:31, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43*am, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
* Oh, and another way to gusset a tubing structure neatly at a 90 or
acute angle (trailer A to chassis) is to cut a "Cheese Wedge" out of
the same size tubing with the outer wall intact. *Then weld it inside
the corner after welding and finish grinding the main joint.

* Paint the 'inside' areas of frame and gusset with red primer before
closing it up, try to keep the rust from starting. *Can be sloppy or
runny, nobody will /ever/ see it. * * *You hope. *;-)

You lost me a little bit. DO you have an example?

By cheese wedge are you just talkign about using tubing instead of a
solid plate gusset?

* Yes - you take the same square tubing and set the compound angle on
your saw to match the inside of the join, and you take off the ends of
the tubing to look like a wedge sliced from a square pizza. *Or a
slice of cake. *You leave the top and bottom (triangular) and one
side. *Then you weld that wedge to the inside of the corner.

Should you really grind a weld after you are finished?

* Always. *If you did it right (even if a bit sloppily) you will clean
off the bumps and slag spatter, and make a surface that can be painted
easily. *If you went for good penetration of the parent metal you can
also grind the joint down totally flat and it will look like one piece
that curves.

* And if the weld is bad, you'll see it right away and can fix it. *If
the weld metal didn't penetrate and stick to the parent metal, the
wheel will peel it right off. *Or you'll see big bubbles and holes
that were hiding under the surface...

* It takes a LOT of practice to get beautiful tightly whorled weld
beads where it won't need at least a little grinder clean-up.

* When you get that good where you want people to see the stitching,
you just hit it with the knotted wire wheel (used for surface prep
before welding) to knock off the spatter dingleberries and call it
done.

* * -- Bruce --

One thing I found out. That metal is bigger than I thought. It is 4x4
1/4 inch thick.

1.) Will my AC 220 volt buzz box welder or my Hobart MIg 130 amp weld
it?

2.) Is this stuff too heavey for a small 10 foot trailer? I can get
about 80 feet of it for about 80 bucks so it is cheaper than puchasing
angle iron.

3.) If this trialer weights almost 2000 lbs, will it need brakes?

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:27:04 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Apr 18, 10:52Â*am, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:23:31, stryped wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:43Â*am, Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
Â* Oh, and another way to gusset a tubing structure neatly at a 90 or
acute angle (trailer A to chassis) is to cut a "Cheese Wedge" out of
the same size tubing with the outer wall intact. Â*Then weld it inside
the corner after welding and finish grinding the main joint.

Â* Paint the 'inside' areas of frame and gusset with red primer before
closing it up, try to keep the rust from starting. Â*Can be sloppy or
runny, nobody will /ever/ see it. Â* Â* Â*You hope. Â*;-)

You lost me a little bit. DO you have an example?

By cheese wedge are you just talkign about using tubing instead of a
solid plate gusset?

Â* Yes - you take the same square tubing and set the compound angle on
your saw to match the inside of the join, and you take off the ends of
the tubing to look like a wedge sliced from a square pizza. Â*Or a
slice of cake. Â*You leave the top and bottom (triangular) and one
side. Â*Then you weld that wedge to the inside of the corner.

Should you really grind a weld after you are finished?

Â* Always. Â*If you did it right (even if a bit sloppily) you will clean
off the bumps and slag spatter, and make a surface that can be painted
easily. Â*If you went for good penetration of the parent metal you can
also grind the joint down totally flat and it will look like one piece
that curves.

Â* And if the weld is bad, you'll see it right away and can fix it. Â*If
the weld metal didn't penetrate and stick to the parent metal, the
wheel will peel it right off. Â*Or you'll see big bubbles and holes
that were hiding under the surface...

Â* It takes a LOT of practice to get beautiful tightly whorled weld
beads where it won't need at least a little grinder clean-up.

Â* When you get that good where you want people to see the stitching,
you just hit it with the knotted wire wheel (used for surface prep
before welding) to knock off the spatter dingleberries and call it
done.

Â* Â* -- Bruce --

One thing I found out. That metal is bigger than I thought. It is 4x4
1/4 inch thick.

1.) Will my AC 220 volt buzz box welder or my Hobart MIg 130 amp weld
it?

2.) Is this stuff too heavey for a small 10 foot trailer? I can get
about 80 feet of it for about 80 bucks so it is cheaper than puchasing
angle iron.

3.) If this trialer weights almost 2000 lbs, will it need brakes?


It will need brakes FOR SURE.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **