I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and
Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs,
and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.

Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use
in the Millrite.

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to
allow free motion. The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck
to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning
the mating surfaces.

Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.

By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring
that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either
direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm
reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.

Joe Gwinn

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and
Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs,
and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.

Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use
in the Millrite.

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to
allow free motion. The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck
to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning
the mating surfaces.

Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.

By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring
that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either
direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm
reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.

Rotate the ring clockwise (when looking at the spindle nose) to loosen the
chuck.

Mike

I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message
...
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The wood will not beat up the ring, but it can't be good for the headstock
bearings to be beating on the spindle. I change chucks fairly often. I
forged a hook spanner from some 1" x 1.5" bar stock for my L-1 LeBlond.

Carl Boyd

Clark Magnuson wrote:
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.
I loosen and tighten the L00 ring on my Kerry 1140 with the C spanner
provided. The ring is hardened and harder than the C spanner so while
the C spanner looks beaten up the ring looks undamaged and is probably
35+ years old.

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and
Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs,
and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.

Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use
in the Millrite.

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to
allow free motion. The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck
to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning
the mating surfaces.

Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.

By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring
that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either
direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm
reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.

Rotate the ring clockwise (when looking at the spindle nose) to loosen the
chuck.

That worked. Thanks,

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
Clark Magnuson wrote:

I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The lathe came with the correct pin spanner, made by Armstrong. Just
engage the back gear and whap the spanner arm with a lead hammer.

Joe Gwinn

Hey Joe,

Well MERRY CHRISTMAS then!!!!!! Glad for you that it arrived in good
shape.

Take care.

Brian Lawson.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX



On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:56:27 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and
Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs,
and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.

Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use
in the Millrite.

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to
allow free motion. The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck
to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning
the mating surfaces.

Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.

By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring
that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either
direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm
reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.

Joe Gwinn

On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and
Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs,
and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.

Great!

Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use
in the Millrite.

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to
allow free motion.

Spritz them with WD-40 to soften the old lubes so you can undo
things and wipe them clean -- then put on good lubes (E.G. Vactra No. 2
waylube) in place -- though be prepared to wipe it off before mounting
the chucks or plates.

The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck
to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning
the mating surfaces.

Ouch.

Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.

Great!

By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring
that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either
direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm
reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.

Rotate the ring clockwise (when looking at the spindle nose) to loosen the
chuck.

This agrees with my experience -- though you could have told by
looking at the threads on one of the chucks or plates which was not
currently mounted.

Again -- spritz in WD-40 to loosen up the spooge before removing
it. And put a board across the ways to take the weight of the chuck
without dinging the ways when it comes loose. It is not as sudden as a
threaded chuck, but these are heavy enough to be a surprise the first
time or two. :-) Ideally -- take a 2x6 or 2x8 and make matching
V-grooves in the bottom so it won't slide off. To make mounting a chuck
easier -- secure another to the top surface and sand or otherwise cut an
arc in it to match the chuck at the right height. You'll need to make
one for each diameter of chuck of course.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2007-12-28, Clark Magnuson wrote:
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The rings on Clausings which I have seen have blind holes
drilled every so many degrees -- every 60 or 45 degrees, I think. They
accept a radial pin spanner. I use a dead-blow hammer to drive mine.
And if I am in a gearing which makes it easy for the chuck to turn the
spindle, I engage the back gear while keeping the pin in for direct
drive. Be sure to remember to undo this before applying power. With
your 2HP motor and (I believe) the variable speed pulley, you might have
enough torque to damage the back gears otherwise.

Of course -- some have milled notches instead of drilled holes,
and there you use a hook spanner instead.

Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Clark Magnuson wrote:
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The rings on Clausings which I have seen have blind holes
drilled every so many degrees -- every 60 or 45 degrees, I think. They
accept a radial pin spanner. I use a dead-blow hammer to drive mine.
And if I am in a gearing which makes it easy for the chuck to turn the
spindle, I engage the back gear while keeping the pin in for direct
drive. Be sure to remember to undo this before applying power. With
your 2HP motor and (I believe) the variable speed pulley, you might have
enough torque to damage the back gears otherwise.

Of course -- some have milled notches instead of drilled holes,
and there you use a hook spanner instead.

Mine has shallow milled slots plus a blind round hole every 60 degrees,
and came with a big radial-pin spanner that fits perfectly.

The milled slots appear to be intended to provide a hand grip, being a
form of knurling.

I've using a lead hammer on the spanner, but a dead-blow hammer would
also work.


Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

I don't know what a nose protector is, or if I have one. The lathe came
with collet nose and closer (made by Royal) installed, and I have not
yet taken them apart.

I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I now have possession of the lathe. It came with a 5C collet nose and
Royal lever closer, plus something like 140 collets, mostly Hardinge.
Also got the 3-jaw, 4-jaw, and dog-driver chucks, three driving dogs,
and the steady rest. No slotted faceplate or follow rest.

Great!

Seller also threw in a collection of side-milling cutters that I can use
in the Millrite.

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.

The mounting of this toolpost onto the lathe compound rest is homebrew
and strange and ad-hoc, and seems floppy. This deserves a bit of
reengineering.


Lots of spooge and dirt. Threads in particular need to be cleaned, to
allow free motion.

Spritz them with WD-40 to soften the old lubes so you can undo
things and wipe them clean -- then put on good lubes (E.G. Vactra No. 2
waylube) in place -- though be prepared to wipe it off before mounting
the chucks or plates.

Been doing that, but been using acetone to get that last bit of spooge
off. Actually, a mix of acetone and WD-40 is quite effective.

I don't think the welders ever oiled the lathe. Nor did they use it
much. When I pumped Vactra #2 into all the oil fittings, vast amounts
of dirty oil flowed out at first, and it became easier to move whatever
had thus been oiled. The dirt seems to be accumulated ferrous wear
products, not grit.

The ways are flame hardened and look good, so the wear products probably
come from the cast iron saddle sliding on the bed ways.


The dog driver plate had some bits of aluminum stuck
to the L-00 taper, from tightening the plate down without first cleaning
the mating surfaces.

Ouch.

All the chucks need a cleaning, but the dog driver seems to be the only
one used.


Motor is 3-phase 220/208-volt 2 HP, and appears to be original.

Great!

By the way, to remove a chuck, which way does one rotate the big ring
that grabs the thread on the L-00 taper? It's hard to turn in either
direction, probably from spooge and chips in the threads, and I'm
reluctant to press on without knowing the correct direction.

Rotate the ring clockwise (when looking at the spindle nose) to loosen the
chuck.

This agrees with my experience -- though you could have told by
looking at the threads on one of the chucks or plates which was not
currently mounted.

I thought of that, but never having had the collet nose apart, was
afraid to be too strong with it.


Again -- spritz in WD-40 to loosen up the spooge before removing
it. And put a board across the ways to take the weight of the chuck
without dinging the ways when it comes loose. It is not as sudden as a
threaded chuck, but these are heavy enough to be a surprise the first
time or two. :-) Ideally -- take a 2x6 or 2x8 and make matching
V-grooves in the bottom so it won't slide off. To make mounting a chuck
easier -- secure another to the top surface and sand or otherwise cut an
arc in it to match the chuck at the right height. You'll need to make
one for each diameter of chuck of course.

I have yet to mount the chucks, but this is nonetheless good advice,
especially the wooden purpose-built holding fixture for mounting and
dismounting chucks.

Joe Gwinn

Carl Boyd wrote:
"Clark Magnuson" wrote in message
...
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The wood will not beat up the ring, but it can't be good for the headstock
bearings to be beating on the spindle. I change chucks fairly often. I
forged a hook spanner from some 1" x 1.5" bar stock for my L-1 LeBlond.

Carl Boyd



That got my thinking.
I assumed from how smashed up the holes on that ring are that it is
Aluminum. But I see now it is attractive to a magnet.

I thought of myself as babying that ring by using a stick to hit it
after all the damage it has taken being hit with metal at Boeing and/or
AIE Industrial in the 40 years before I got the lathe.

The link to the picture of my lathe is still good from the auction, 6
years later:
http://www.murphyauctions.net/past/a...rial.html#pic1

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Clark Magnuson wrote:
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The rings on Clausings which I have seen have blind holes
drilled every so many degrees -- every 60 or 45 degrees, I think. They
accept a radial pin spanner. I use a dead-blow hammer to drive mine.
And if I am in a gearing which makes it easy for the chuck to turn the
spindle, I engage the back gear while keeping the pin in for direct
drive. Be sure to remember to undo this before applying power. With
your 2HP motor and (I believe) the variable speed pulley, you might have
enough torque to damage the back gears otherwise.

Of course -- some have milled notches instead of drilled holes,
and there you use a hook spanner instead.

Mine has shallow milled slots plus a blind round hole every 60 degrees,
and came with a big radial-pin spanner that fits perfectly.

The milled slots appear to be intended to provide a hand grip, being a
form of knurling.

I've using a lead hammer on the spanner, but a dead-blow hammer would
also work.

I've been getting by with a good whack with an open palm.

Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

I don't know what a nose protector is, or if I have one. The lathe came
with collet nose and closer (made by Royal) installed, and I have not
yet taken them apart.

On mine (and others I've seen) it's an aluminum piece that fits over the
spindle nose with external threads that fit into the spindle nut. It
protects the threads on the spindle nut and extracts the 5C spindle sleeve
(adapter) by pushing the sleeve out when the spindle nut is loosened. In
the picture below, the nose protector is at the lower right hand corner of
the manual:

http://memweb.newsguy.com/~mphenry/C...Accesories.jpg

I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

Make sure you have the serial number handy - they have something like 25
versions of the 5900-series manuals and need the S/N to get you the right
one. You might also check on manuals for any accessories that you might
have. I think that they threw a couple in for free when I ordered a manual.

Mike

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message

[ ... ]

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.

Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.

The mounting of this toolpost onto the lathe compound rest is homebrew
and strange and ad-hoc, and seems floppy. This deserves a bit of
reengineering.

Hmm ... the one on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC secures with a
center bolt to a steel plate which is secured via four Allen-head cap
screws to the cross-slide. (No compound on the CNC version, as angle
cuts are done by programing the CNC.)

The toolpost bolts to either of two different positions,
depending on the diameter to be machined, as the CNC cross-slide does
not have sufficient range to handle the maximum radius part down to he
center in a single pass.

Examination of the underside
suggests that it was intended to clamp down on a tapered stud instead of
clamping down to a flat plate -- but I haven't gotten around to making a
matching taper for it yet.

[ ... ]

I don't think the welders ever oiled the lathe. Nor did they use it
much. When I pumped Vactra #2 into all the oil fittings, vast amounts
of dirty oil flowed out at first, and it became easier to move whatever
had thus been oiled. The dirt seems to be accumulated ferrous wear
products, not grit.

The ways are flame hardened and look good, so the wear products probably
come from the cast iron saddle sliding on the bed ways.

The spooge could be splattered ferrous metal melted by flame
cutting and scattered over the whole shop. Their not lubing things much
has the benefit that it did not grab hold of more of the airborne junk,
since it sounds as though they never cleaned it. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Clark Magnuson wrote:

[ ... ]

Of course -- some have milled notches instead of drilled holes,
and there you use a hook spanner instead.

Mine has shallow milled slots plus a blind round hole every 60 degrees,
and came with a big radial-pin spanner that fits perfectly.

The milled slots appear to be intended to provide a hand grip, being a
form of knurling.

I've seen some spanner wrenches with a curved tip to fit into a
radiused depth. slot

[ ... ]

Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

I don't know what a nose protector is, or if I have one. The lathe came
with collet nose and closer (made by Royal) installed, and I have not
yet taken them apart.

O.K. The nose is tapered, with a projecting key to engage a
matching key slot in the chuck mounting plates -- or built in.

When a collet adaptor is in place, there is nothing for the
pull-down ring to pull on unless there is a nose protector slid over the
nose (with the taper and keyway) and tightened by the ring.

The collet adaptor has a flange which extends out a bit beyond
the small-end diameter of the nose.

The collet adaptor gets *very* firmly wedged in the internal
taper of the spindle.

When you need to take it out -- you loosen the lock ring, which
then pushes the nose protector towards the tailstock, and pushes on the
flange of the collet adaptor -- popping it out. (Assuming that you
don't have a collet mounted at the time, of course. :-)

In my case -- the nose protector (ordered from Royal through
Scott Logan) was aluminum, and was included with the collet adaptor. I
already had the lever style collet drawbar. I'm not sure whether they
all were aluminum, or whether earlier ones were steel.

I did have to extend the drawbar by about an inch, because the
L-00 spindle was about that much longer than the 2-1/4x8 threaded one --
which had a different collet adaptor (to a different taper) and had a
ring which screwed on the 2-1/4x8 spindle nose. It used the same
approach to popping lose the adaptor -- and the ring itself was drilled
with holes for a pin spanner.

I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

The manual will be a significant help. However, until it gets
there we'll see how much I can provide from my 5418 belt change lathe.

1) On the carriage you will find:

a) A handwheel which turns a pinion which engages a rack
gear under the edge of the bed to move the carriage.

b) A lever at the right-hand edge of the carriage which
pulls up to close the half-nuts. (Interlocked to the
feed lever, so you can't pull both up at the same time.)

c) Possibly -- a threading dial attached to the right-hand
edge of the apron and with a gear on the end which
engages the leadscrew -- for telling you when to close
the half-nuts while threading.

d) A short lever which moves in a 'Z' shaped groove. Up
engages slow feed along the bed. Down engages slow
cross feed. It has to be slid along the center bar of
the 'Z' to switch from one to the other, so you are
unlikely to overshoot and go from longitudinal to
cross-feed or vice versa when you simply want to stop.
You should use this for feeds when cutting, and leave
the half-nuts only for use when threading.

e) At the top of the apron is the cross-slide, with a
crank to move the cross slide (and it can be power fed).
Above the cross-slide is the compound with the T-slot
for mounting the tool holder.

2) Below the bed under the headstock is the quick-change threading
gearbox. It has:

a) The usual lever where you pull out on a knurled
knob, swing it down, and slide it sideways to select a
particular set of gears.

b) A paddle lever on top which has three positions, left,
center, and right -- with center pointing out at you.

This selects one of three factors-of-two reduction
ratios before the lever just mentioned.

c) Sticking out through a hole in the left-hand cover of
the headstock is a short knurled shaft. This is
attached to a sliding pair of gears. Sliding it in
connects to the input of the above gearbox at one ratio.
Sliding it out at another ratio -- a factor of 8
different from the first.

all three of these work together to select the thread pitch --
and to select the feeds. There should be a metal chart giving
the threads and feeds for each setting combination. The
figures are above the slots for the lever in (a) above, and you
will find in fine print the corresponding longitudinal feed,
with a multiplier factor for the cross feed which is slower.

Now -- we get to things in which yours will differ from mine, as
you have variable speed. Sometimes that is from a wheel with two levers
on top of the headstock, or sometimes a crank and a lever from the front
of the pedestal below the headstock. I've not used these, as mine has
belts which you change after opening the front of the pedestal and no
variable speed. So -- I can't guide you on these. Mine also has a
switch box on the front left of the headstock with a lever and knob for
selecting motor behavior.

Left is forwards.

Center is stopped.

Right is reverse.

Yours probably at least has a start-stop switch. I don't know
whether your variable speed also offers forward/reverse selection or
whether you need to switch the motor for that.

If you are lucky, there will also be a taper attachment mounted
behind the carriage to allow cutting repeatable tapers.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:38:29 -0800, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

SNIP

The link to the picture of my lathe is still good from the auction, 6
years later:
http://www.murphyauctions.net/past/a...rial.html#pic1


Hey Clark,

Hmmmm....in the photo, there is a tool box suspended under the chip
tray. Looks like a good idea. Is that still there, and if so:
How useful is it?
Does it get a lot of chips inside?
What do you store in it.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

In article ,
"Mike Henry" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Clark Magnuson wrote:
I remove and tighten the ring on the L00 with a stick and hammer.
The wood will not beat up the ring.

The rings on Clausings which I have seen have blind holes
drilled every so many degrees -- every 60 or 45 degrees, I think. They
accept a radial pin spanner. I use a dead-blow hammer to drive mine.
And if I am in a gearing which makes it easy for the chuck to turn the
spindle, I engage the back gear while keeping the pin in for direct
drive. Be sure to remember to undo this before applying power. With
your 2HP motor and (I believe) the variable speed pulley, you might have
enough torque to damage the back gears otherwise.

Of course -- some have milled notches instead of drilled holes,
and there you use a hook spanner instead.

Mine has shallow milled slots plus a blind round hole every 60 degrees,
and came with a big radial-pin spanner that fits perfectly.

The milled slots appear to be intended to provide a hand grip, being a
form of knurling.

I've using a lead hammer on the spanner, but a dead-blow hammer would
also work.

I've been getting by with a good whack with an open palm.

I think it would hurt my palm, which doesn't have a lot of padding.

From the flat spot on the spanner handle, it has been hit with a steel
hammer for some time.


Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

I don't know what a nose protector is, or if I have one. The lathe came
with collet nose and closer (made by Royal) installed, and I have not
yet taken them apart.

On mine (and others I've seen) it's an aluminum piece that fits over the
spindle nose with external threads that fit into the spindle nut. It
protects the threads on the spindle nut and extracts the 5C spindle sleeve
(adapter) by pushing the sleeve out when the spindle nut is loosened. In
the picture below, the nose protector is at the lower right hand corner of
the manual:

http://memweb.newsguy.com/~mphenry/C...Accesories.jpg

I may have such a piece, deeply buried.


I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

Make sure you have the serial number handy - they have something like 25
versions of the 5900-series manuals and need the S/N to get you the right
one. You might also check on manuals for any accessories that you might
have. I think that they threw a couple in for free when I ordered a manual.

I did call, serial number in hand, but Clausing closed down at noon on
Friday. Maybe Monday.


Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Clark Magnuson wrote:

[ ... ]

Of course -- some have milled notches instead of drilled holes,
and there you use a hook spanner instead.

Mine has shallow milled slots plus a blind round hole every 60 degrees,
and came with a big radial-pin spanner that fits perfectly.

The milled slots appear to be intended to provide a hand grip, being a
form of knurling.

I've seen some spanner wrenches with a curved tip to fit into a
radiused depth. slot

I've seen that too.


[ ... ]

Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

I don't know what a nose protector is, or if I have one. The lathe came
with collet nose and closer (made by Royal) installed, and I have not
yet taken them apart.

O.K. The nose is tapered, with a projecting key to engage a
matching key slot in the chuck mounting plates -- or built in.

When a collet adaptor is in place, there is nothing for the
pull-down ring to pull on unless there is a nose protector slid over the
nose (with the taper and keyway) and tightened by the ring.

The collet adaptor has a flange which extends out a bit beyond
the small-end diameter of the nose.

The collet adaptor gets *very* firmly wedged in the internal
taper of the spindle.

When you need to take it out -- you loosen the lock ring, which
then pushes the nose protector towards the tailstock, and pushes on the
flange of the collet adaptor -- popping it out. (Assuming that you
don't have a collet mounted at the time, of course. :-)

Hmm. I may have a protector, but didn't push hard enough to pop it
loose.


In my case -- the nose protector (ordered from Royal through
Scott Logan) was aluminum, and was included with the collet adaptor. I
already had the lever style collet drawbar. I'm not sure whether they
all were aluminum, or whether earlier ones were steel.

I did have to extend the drawbar by about an inch, because the
L-00 spindle was about that much longer than the 2-1/4x8 threaded one --
which had a different collet adaptor (to a different taper) and had a
ring which screwed on the 2-1/4x8 spindle nose. It used the same
approach to popping lose the adaptor -- and the ring itself was drilled
with holes for a pin spanner.

Given that this is a Royal lever closer, which was standard on the
Clausings, I'd guess that it came with everything needed, of the correct
length.


I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

The manual will be a significant help. However, until it gets
there we'll see how much I can provide from my 5418 belt change lathe.

As it happens, I have a scanned 5418 manual. No idea how I got it or
where from.


1) On the carriage you will find:

a) A handwheel which turns a pinion which engages a rack
gear under the edge of the bed to move the carriage.

Yes.


b) A lever at the right-hand edge of the carriage which
pulls up to close the half-nuts. (Interlocked to the
feed lever, so you can't pull both up at the same time.)

Yes.


c) Possibly -- a threading dial attached to the right-hand
edge of the apron and with a gear on the end which
engages the leadscrew -- for telling you when to close
the half-nuts while threading.

It does have a threading dial.


d) A short lever which moves in a 'Z' shaped groove. Up
engages slow feed along the bed. Down engages slow
cross feed. It has to be slid along the center bar of
the 'Z' to switch from one to the other, so you are
unlikely to overshoot and go from longitudinal to
cross-feed or vice versa when you simply want to stop.
You should use this for feeds when cutting, and leave
the half-nuts only for use when threading.

This does not match, although something must perform a like function.


e) At the top of the apron is the cross-slide, with a
crank to move the cross slide (and it can be power fed).
Above the cross-slide is the compound with the T-slot
for mounting the tool holder.

Yes.


2) Below the bed under the headstock is the quick-change threading
gearbox. It has:

a) The usual lever where you pull out on a knurled
knob, swing it down, and slide it sideways to select a
particular set of gears.

Yes.


b) A paddle lever on top which has three positions, left,
center, and right -- with center pointing out at you.

This selects one of three factors-of-two reduction
ratios before the lever just mentioned.

Must be there somewhere, but no paddle lever.


c) Sticking out through a hole in the left-hand cover of
the headstock is a short knurled shaft. This is
attached to a sliding pair of gears. Sliding it in
connects to the input of the above gearbox at one ratio.
Sliding it out at another ratio -- a factor of 8
different from the first.

Yes.


all three of these work together to select the thread pitch --
and to select the feeds. There should be a metal chart giving
the threads and feeds for each setting combination. The
figures are above the slots for the lever in (a) above, and you
will find in fine print the corresponding longitudinal feed,
with a multiplier factor for the cross feed which is slower.

There is the metal plate.


Now -- we get to things in which yours will differ from mine, as
you have variable speed. Sometimes that is from a wheel with two levers
on top of the headstock, or sometimes a crank and a lever from the front
of the pedestal below the headstock. I've not used these, as mine has
belts which you change after opening the front of the pedestal and no
variable speed. So -- I can't guide you on these. Mine also has a
switch box on the front left of the headstock with a lever and knob for
selecting motor behavior.

Left is forwards.

Center is stopped.

Right is reverse.

Yours probably at least has a start-stop switch. I don't know
whether your variable speed also offers forward/reverse selection or
whether you need to switch the motor for that.

It has a three-position switch: forward-off-reverse. I will bypass this
switch, as the VFD will not approve of live switching of motor wiring.

The mechanical variable-speed control does not reverse; this is
accomplished by the above switch.


If you are lucky, there will also be a taper attachment mounted
behind the carriage to allow cutting repeatable tapers.

No such luck. Sniff.


Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message

[ ... ]

Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.

Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.

Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?


The mounting of this toolpost onto the lathe compound rest is homebrew
and strange and ad-hoc, and seems floppy. This deserves a bit of
reengineering.

Hmm ... the one on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC secures with a
center bolt to a steel plate which is secured via four Allen-head cap
screws to the cross-slide. (No compound on the CNC version, as angle
cuts are done by programing the CNC.)

The toolpost bolts to either of two different positions,
depending on the diameter to be machined, as the CNC cross-slide does
not have sufficient range to handle the maximum radius part down to he
center in a single pass.

Examination of the underside
suggests that it was intended to clamp down on a tapered stud instead of
clamping down to a flat plate -- but I haven't gotten around to making a
matching taper for it yet.

The one I have appears to be intended to mount on a cylindrical post
with a smaller cylindrical screw clamping it down. There is a sliding
pin with a rounded nose that is intended to engage location holes at
various angles in a plate that is not in evidence, to prevent rotation.
There is no taper.

I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.


[ ... ]

I don't think the welders ever oiled the lathe. Nor did they use it
much. When I pumped Vactra #2 into all the oil fittings, vast amounts
of dirty oil flowed out at first, and it became easier to move whatever
had thus been oiled. The dirt seems to be accumulated ferrous wear
products, not grit.

The ways are flame hardened and look good, so the wear products probably
come from the cast iron saddle sliding on the bed ways.

The spooge could be splattered ferrous metal melted by flame
cutting and scattered over the whole shop. Their not lubing things much
has the benefit that it did not grab hold of more of the airborne junk,
since it sounds as though they never cleaned it. :-)

The black stuff was inside, in places airborne iron oxide dust could not
go. But it was never cleaned. Actually, I think that the lathe came
dirty, because there was a lot of hardened cutting oil and chips in the
chip pan, and the welders cut dry - I didn't see anything like a coolant
circulation system. If it had had one, I bet it would have been
included.


Joe Gwinn

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message

[ ... ]


Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.

Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.


Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?


The correct spelling is "Dickson" , pic on the right here
http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holder sare interchangeable.

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message

[ ... ]


Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).

This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.

Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.


Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?


The correct spelling is "Dickson" , pic on the right here
http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable.

Bingo! This does look like what I have. Thanks for the pointer.

The Pratt-Burnerd website doesn't work properly with Firefox, but Safari
does at least seem to work. But the download function was offline, so I
cannot yet get the catalog. Probably won't recover until people return
from the New Year's holiday.

Toolmex holder does look the same, and is made by Bison. But the
catalog of toolholders was not to be found on their website. Only
cutting tools. http://www.toolmex.co.uk/new/catalog.html


Joe Gwinn

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
David Billington wrote:


Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:



On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:


In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:



On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message


[ ... ]



Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.


Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).


This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.


Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.


Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?



The correct spelling is "Dickson" , pic on the right here
http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable.


Bingo! This does look like what I have. Thanks for the pointer.

The Pratt-Burnerd website doesn't work properly with Firefox, but Safari
does at least seem to work. But the download function was offline, so I
cannot yet get the catalog. Probably won't recover until people return
from the New Year's holiday.

Toolmex holder does look the same, and is made by Bison. But the
catalog of toolholders was not to be found on their website. Only
cutting tools. http://www.toolmex.co.uk/new/catalog.html


Joe Gwinn

Try http://www.toolmex.com/tools/PDF/BisonRotaryTooling.pdf page 85. I'm
using Firefox also but hadn't noted that the page was working rather crap.

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
David Billington wrote:


Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:



On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:


In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:



On 2007-12-28, Mike Henry wrote:


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message


[ ... ]



Toolpost is funky, a wrench-activated sort-of aloris, but no pistons
or
wedges. Also got lots of bits and holders, plus some knurlers.


Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has
a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

Not quite as convenient as a wedge style Aloris or clone, but
pretty close to as rigid and better than the piston style. I've got
one
on my Emco-Maier Compact-5/CNC (a significantly smaller lathe).


This sounds like it could be what I have. The body is marked "RAPID
I.S.A" in an ellipse, plus "TIPO-M" in a rectangle. Where would one
find information on these holders? I guess that RAPID is one maker,
probably British.


Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.


Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?



The correct spelling is "Dickson" , pic on the right here
http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable.


Bingo! This does look like what I have. Thanks for the pointer.

The Pratt-Burnerd website doesn't work properly with Firefox, but Safari
does at least seem to work. But the download function was offline, so I
cannot yet get the catalog. Probably won't recover until people return
from the New Year's holiday.

Toolmex holder does look the same, and is made by Bison. But the
catalog of toolholders was not to be found on their website. Only
cutting tools. http://www.toolmex.co.uk/new/catalog.html


Joe Gwinn

Try http://www.toolmex.com/tools/PDF/BisonRotaryTooling.pdf page 85.

Page 85 does have the toolposts I have. What is missing are the details
of how one attachs this to one's lathe. One assumes there are kits or
at least drawings.


I'm using Firefox also but hadn't noted that the page was working rather crap.

It isn't necessarily obvious when Firefox isn't doing well. No red-flag
warnings come up, but things simply fail to work, silently.

I had the Firefox problem with Pratt-Burnerd's website, not Toolmex's.
The problem with Toolmex was organizational, not technical: I cannot say
that I would have ever thought of a toolpost as "rotary tooling".
Thanks for the pointer.

Joe Gwinn

On 2007-12-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

[ ... ]

Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.

Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

Understood.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?

AFIK, Myford uses genuine Dickenson (or is it Dickensen or some
other variant)?. What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues
whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size
as one of the toolposts sold through the years by Shoptask for their
3-in-1 lathes which a friend has. It does fit on my toolpost -- but the
flange on the nut had to be turned thinner -- so I did not bother, since
it worked with his. (The cam which pulls in the T-stud has a groove
turned in an increased diameter section, with a partial sector milled
clear to allow the holder to be lifted off only when the cam is
loosened.

Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the
holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block
(clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the
tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual
for the Compact-5/CNC.

I've seen much bigger versions sold on eBay -- but I don't
remember whether a maker's name was shown.

I suspect that the patent for the design is long expired, and
anyone who wants to is making them. Dickenson (in whatever spelling) is
simply the maker in the UK where Myford are located. :-)

[ ... ]

Examination of the underside
suggests that it was intended to clamp down on a tapered stud instead of
clamping down to a flat plate -- but I haven't gotten around to making a
matching taper for it yet.

The one I have appears to be intended to mount on a cylindrical post
with a smaller cylindrical screw clamping it down. There is a sliding
pin with a rounded nose that is intended to engage location holes at
various angles in a plate that is not in evidence, to prevent rotation.
There is no taper.

O.K. There was no index detent on this one -- but the taper at
the bottom would lock it firmly once clamped down.

I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.

Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not
bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris
style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on
my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance
on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are
going for the AXA size. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2007-12-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


[ ... ]

Also -- be *sure* to put the nose protector on (and snug the
ring) before putting in the collet adaptor -- or you will have
difficulty getting the adaptor back out.

I don't know what a nose protector is, or if I have one. The lathe came
with collet nose and closer (made by Royal) installed, and I have not
yet taken them apart.

O.K. The nose is tapered, with a projecting key to engage a
matching key slot in the chuck mounting plates -- or built in.

When a collet adaptor is in place, there is nothing for the
pull-down ring to pull on unless there is a nose protector slid over the
nose (with the taper and keyway) and tightened by the ring.

The collet adaptor has a flange which extends out a bit beyond
the small-end diameter of the nose.

The collet adaptor gets *very* firmly wedged in the internal
taper of the spindle.

When you need to take it out -- you loosen the lock ring, which
then pushes the nose protector towards the tailstock, and pushes on the
flange of the collet adaptor -- popping it out. (Assuming that you
don't have a collet mounted at the time, of course. :-)

Hmm. I may have a protector, but didn't push hard enough to pop it
loose.

If you have the collet adaptor in the spindle, and the locking
ring around the spindle is not rattling loose, then it must be drawn up
on a nose protector. To eject the adaptor:

1) Remove any collet from the adaptor.

2) Start turning the ring to unscrew it from the protector. It
will start a bit tight (especially with your spooge), then get
loose, then as it move far enough to touch the flange of the
adaptor, will get tight again until you move it far enough so
the collet adaptor pops loose. (Keep a hand ready to catch it,
it may jump quite a ways, given how long it probably has been in
place.)


In my case -- the nose protector (ordered from Royal through
Scott Logan) was aluminum, and was included with the collet adaptor. I
already had the lever style collet drawbar. I'm not sure whether they
all were aluminum, or whether earlier ones were steel.

I did have to extend the drawbar by about an inch, because the
L-00 spindle was about that much longer than the 2-1/4x8 threaded one --
which had a different collet adaptor (to a different taper) and had a
ring which screwed on the 2-1/4x8 spindle nose. It used the same
approach to popping lose the adaptor -- and the ring itself was drilled
with holes for a pin spanner.

Given that this is a Royal lever closer, which was standard on the
Clausings, I'd guess that it came with everything needed, of the correct
length.

Of course. I had to extend mine because I *changed* the spindle
from the 2-1/4x8 nose to the L-00 nose.


I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

The manual will be a significant help. However, until it gets
there we'll see how much I can provide from my 5418 belt change lathe.

As it happens, I have a scanned 5418 manual. No idea how I got it or
where from.

Perhaps from me. (Perhaps through a roundabout path :-) If it
were not so late, I would dig it up and we could compare the serial
number on the front.

1) On the carriage you will find:

[ ... ]

d) A short lever which moves in a 'Z' shaped groove. Up
engages slow feed along the bed. Down engages slow
cross feed. It has to be slid along the center bar of
the 'Z' to switch from one to the other, so you are
unlikely to overshoot and go from longitudinal to
cross-feed or vice versa when you simply want to stop.
You should use this for feeds when cutting, and leave
the half-nuts only for use when threading.

This does not match, although something must perform a like function.

The lever sticks out of a cylinder which is mounted parallel to
the ways on the center of the front of the apron. The 'Z' is rather
square in shape -- but there is no other letter closer to it. The
center runs parallel to the axis of the cylinder, and the two crossbars
go up or down around the cylinder to allow the lever to rotate something
inside the cylinder.

[ ... ]

2) Below the bed under the headstock is the quick-change threading
gearbox. It has:

[ ... ]

b) A paddle lever on top which has three positions, left,
center, and right -- with center pointing out at you.

This selects one of three factors-of-two reduction
ratios before the lever just mentioned.

Must be there somewhere, but no paddle lever.

Looking at the photo which someone posted, the paddle lever has
been replaced with a black knob on the front. It either rotates to
select the three positions, or it pulls out and pushes in with detents.
Look for numbers on the front as a clue as to whether it rotates or
pulls.

That also shows the lever which I mentioned above in the center
of the apron. look for a black plastic ball knob closer to the headstock
than the one for the half-nuts.

[ ... ]

Now -- we get to things in which yours will differ from mine, as
you have variable speed. Sometimes that is from a wheel with two levers
on top of the headstock, or sometimes a crank and a lever from the front
of the pedestal below the headstock. I've not used these, as mine has
belts which you change after opening the front of the pedestal and no
variable speed. So -- I can't guide you on these. Mine also has a
switch box on the front left of the headstock with a lever and knob for
selecting motor behavior.

Left is forwards.

Center is stopped.

Right is reverse.

Yours probably at least has a start-stop switch. I don't know
whether your variable speed also offers forward/reverse selection or
whether you need to switch the motor for that.

It has a three-position switch: forward-off-reverse. I will bypass this
switch, as the VFD will not approve of live switching of motor wiring.

Keep the switch -- but wire it to the control pins of the VFD
instead of the motor windings. There are enough contacts in the switch
so you can easily find a SPDTCO (Single-Pole Double-Throw, Center-Off)
section to run to the VFD's control pins. It is likely to be combined
with a second switch throwing the other way for the other side of a
winding which is normally reversed by the switching. Just ignore this
other side. :-)

Of course -- you will have to dig through the manual of your VFD
to find the parameter which needs to be set to get it to pay attention
to the control contacts instead of the front panel buttons.

The mechanical variable-speed control does not reverse; this is
accomplished by the above switch.

O.K. So you *want* to wire the switch to control the VFD. Any
other arrangement is more awkward and develops the wrong muscle memory
for using other lathes.

At a guess -- the one in the photo with the red knob is what
connects to the switch -- and the vertical moving lever to the left is
the one which reversed the direction of the leadscrew for cutting
left-hand threads or turning with power feed from outside to inside when
facing. (The default with right-to-left motion of the carriage is
cutting from the center out.) Never throw this switch with the spindle
turning.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[snipped]
Try http://www.toolmex.com/tools/PDF/BisonRotaryTooling.pdf page 85.


Page 85 does have the toolposts I have. What is missing are the details
of how one attachs this to one's lathe. One assumes there are kits or
at least drawings.



I've not seen kits or drawings for mounting these, I think one just
makes something to suit. When I fitted the Toolmex post to my Kerry 1140
http://www.lathes.co.uk/kerry/page2.html I just made a post that was a
close fit in the toolpost bore and added a plate to suit the T-slotted
compound slide, the top of the post being tapped 1/2UNF for a cap screw.
The cap screw clamped the toolpost with the aid of a thick washer. My
Harrison M300 came fitted with a Dickson toolpost, that has a M12 stud
straight into the top of the compound slide and there is a locating
washer, which appears to be pinned to the compound slide, about 4mm
thick which locates in the underside of the toolpost, again a thick
washer and nut clamp the toolpost.
I'm using Firefox also but hadn't noted that the page was working rather crap.


It isn't necessarily obvious when Firefox isn't doing well. No red-flag
warnings come up, but things simply fail to work, silently.

I had the Firefox problem with Pratt-Burnerd's website, not Toolmex's.
The problem with Toolmex was organizational, not technical: I cannot say
that I would have ever thought of a toolpost as "rotary tooling".
Thanks for the pointer.

Joe Gwinn

Brian Lawson wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:38:29 -0800, Clark Magnuson
wrote:

SNIP
The link to the picture of my lathe is still good from the auction, 6
years later:
http://www.murphyauctions.net/past/a...rial.html#pic1


Hey Clark,

Hmmmm....in the photo, there is a tool box suspended under the chip
tray. Looks like a good idea. Is that still there, and if so:
How useful is it?
Does it get a lot of chips inside?
What do you store in it.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.


The lathe came with the tool box attached, and it is still there, but
cleaner.
It hold the manual, boring bars, cutting tools, woodruff keys, etc.
They drilled into the catch pan and bolted on (4) "L" brackets.
Those brackets are also bolted to the tool box. Two steel shipping band
loops also that wrap around the bottom of the tool box to hold it together.
There is enough space under the tool box to slide things under it, like
5 gal buckets of round stock or wooden cradles holding 12" chucks.

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[snipped]
Try http://www.toolmex.com/tools/PDF/BisonRotaryTooling.pdf page 85.


Page 85 does have the toolposts I have. What is missing are the details
of how one attachs this to one's lathe. One assumes there are kits or
at least drawings.



I've not seen kits or drawings for mounting these, I think one just
makes something to suit. When I fitted the Toolmex post to my Kerry 1140
http://www.lathes.co.uk/kerry/page2.html I just made a post that was a
close fit in the toolpost bore and added a plate to suit the T-slotted
compound slide, the top of the post being tapped 1/2UNF for a cap screw.
The cap screw clamped the toolpost with the aid of a thick washer. My
Harrison M300 came fitted with a Dickson toolpost, that has a M12 stud
straight into the top of the compound slide and there is a locating
washer, which appears to be pinned to the compound slide, about 4mm
thick which locates in the underside of the toolpost, again a thick
washer and nut clamp the toolpost.

I can see lots of ways to do it, but I'm also lazy. And always looking
for ideas -- these things have been worked on for decades.

The other decision is if I should fit this rather beat-up toolpost, or
just get an Aloris BXB as DoN suggests. I'll probably run with the
as-cobbled toolpost for now while I cogitate.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm ... is it perhaps the Dickenson style common in the UK with
Myford lathes? The toolpost has two vertical male V-ways, which match
female ones in the holders. The toolpost wrench a bent shank socket
wrench rotates a cam which draws in a T-stud which engages a T-slot in
the holders between the female Vees. There are two sets of V-ways and
T-studs -- one for turning and one for boring/facing. Each holder has a
long knurled thumbnut to raise or lower the holder, and an Allen-head
cap screw to lock the thumbnut to the proper height.

[ ... ]

Hmm ... "TIPO-M" suggests Italian or Spanish manufacture ("tipo"
being "type"). Not sure about the "RAPID I.S.A.", but you could try
a Google search for it.

Nothing came up on Google. Who knows if they are still in business.

Understood.

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?

AFIK, Myford uses genuine Dickenson (or is it Dickensen or some
other variant)?.

It turns out to be "Dickson", according to David Billington of the UK:
"The correct spelling is "Dickson", pic on the right here
http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable."


What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues
whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size
as one of the toolposts sold through the years by Shoptask for their
3-in-1 lathes which a friend has. It does fit on my toolpost -- but the
flange on the nut had to be turned thinner -- so I did not bother, since
it worked with his. (The cam which pulls in the T-stud has a groove
turned in an increased diameter section, with a partial sector milled
clear to allow the holder to be lifted off only when the cam is
loosened.

Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the
holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block
(clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the
tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual
for the Compact-5/CNC.

So, Emco is another possible source.


I've seen much bigger versions sold on eBay -- but I don't
remember whether a maker's name was shown.

I suspect that the patent for the design is long expired, and
anyone who wants to is making them. Dickenson (in whatever spelling) is
simply the maker in the UK where Myford are located. :-)

[ ... ]

Examination of the underside
suggests that it was intended to clamp down on a tapered stud instead of
clamping down to a flat plate -- but I haven't gotten around to making a
matching taper for it yet.

The one I have appears to be intended to mount on a cylindrical post
with a smaller cylindrical screw clamping it down. There is a sliding
pin with a rounded nose that is intended to engage location holes at
various angles in a plate that is not in evidence, to prevent rotation.
There is no taper.

O.K. There was no index detent on this one -- but the taper at
the bottom would lock it firmly once clamped down.

Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to
make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also
torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin
is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers
lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.


I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.

Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not
bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris
style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on
my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance
on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are
going for the AXA size. :-)

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable
price?

Joe Gwinn

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
[snipped]

Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to
make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also
torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin
is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers
lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.


Both the Dickson and Toolmex toolpost blocks I have are equipped with a
pin, approx 8mm diameter slightly in from the flat side of the
toolpost. I am not sure of its intended use but it isn't required to
prevent the toolpost rotating when the centre clamp is being done up,
the friction of the toolpost base on the compound slide does that just
fine. The Harrison compound slide is drilled to take the pin and locate
the toolpost square to the compound slide which is what I use it for,
all clamping being done via the centre post.


I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.

Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not
bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris
style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on
my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance
on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are
going for the AXA size. :-)


I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable
price?

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
David Billington wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
[snipped]

Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to
make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also
torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin
is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers
lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.


Both the Dickson and Toolmex toolpost blocks I have are equipped with a
pin, approx 8mm diameter slightly in from the flat side of the
toolpost. I am not sure of its intended use but it isn't required to
prevent the toolpost rotating when the centre clamp is being done up,
the friction of the toolpost base on the compound slide does that just
fine. The Harrison compound slide is drilled to take the pin and locate
the toolpost square to the compound slide which is what I use it for,
all clamping being done via the centre post.

That's the same pin I think. A detent is faster for setting to an angle.

One approach that occurred to me was to mill a squat steel plate that
fits snugly into the top of the large T-slot, and is drilled to accept
the big threaded stud that clamps toolpost using the T-nut below and the
big hex nut above. This plate could also have a few 8mm holes to accept
the locator pin.

Joe Gwinn

On Dec 31, 11:54*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. *What's a reasonable
price?

Joe Gwinn

I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable
imported copies of the Aloris design, on eBay mostly. I ended up
purchasing a new toolpost kit that came with 5 toolholders, in BXA
size. This is the wedge-dovetail clamp design, not the piston-clamp
design. The wedge design is considerably more rigid from a usage
standpoint. The imported kit I bought was about $140 complete, as I
recall. I couldn't justify the $500+ price for the new genuine Aloris
setup. There is a high degree of interchangeability between the
toolholders, though, and I continue to look for Aloris toolholders in
the used market. I see them go for anywhere from $25-75 depending on
condition and type, and the level of supply and demand. There are
several suppliers on eBay that have the same imported kit(s), from
China undoubtedly. I just picked the cheapest price and didn't look
back --

On 2007-12-31, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?

AFIK, Myford uses genuine Dickenson (or is it Dickensen or some
other variant)?.

It turns out to be "Dickson", according to David Billington of the UK:
"The correct spelling is "Dickson", pic on the right here

As I saw a few articles past the one to which I replied. :-)

http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable."

And the current problem is that the site currently has their
catalogs down for updating (presumably for the new year), and they want
me to register to be notified of the update. I tend not to register at
sites unless I *really* need the information. :-)

The interesting thing about the illustration (which I had to
turn on Flash to view -- I hate things like that, too) is that it shows
a version with *three* tool stations, not just two at 90 degree
intervals like mine.


What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues
whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size

[ ... ]

Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the
holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block
(clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the
tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual
for the Compact-5/CNC.

So, Emco is another possible source.

Note that is *Emco* -- not *Enco*. Emco is the Austrian maker
of lathes and milling machines which made my little 5" CNC lathe. They
used to make a matching manual lathe, but no longer do so.

[ ... ]

The one I have appears to be intended to mount on a cylindrical post
with a smaller cylindrical screw clamping it down. There is a sliding
pin with a rounded nose that is intended to engage location holes at
various angles in a plate that is not in evidence, to prevent rotation.
There is no taper.

O.K. There was no index detent on this one -- but the taper at
the bottom would lock it firmly once clamped down.

Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to
make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also
torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin
is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers
lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.

The pin is almost certainly not intended to lock it in position,
but just to be an indicator to tell you when you have rotated it
sufficiently to cut the bevel which you want.

I tend to keep mine oriented so one side is parallel to the
workpiece axis and the other parallel to the chuck face. If I want a
bevel, I switch toolholders to one with an insert at the desired angle.
This assures that it is properly set up to hold threading insert tools
in the right position -- unless I've had to change the angle of the
compound -- such as for switching between standard threading or Acme
threading (or potentially Whitworth threading, if I ever do that), or
switching from right-hand threading to left-hand threading or back. In
those cases, I need to re-orient the BXA holder on my compound on the
12x24" Clausing. For the Compact-5/CNC with the Dickson style toolpost,
there is never any need to change the angle of the toolpost, as all
angled cuts are handled by the CNC itself -- including threading infeed.

I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.

Note that when you get a new post -- even from Aloris -- unless
you have paid extra for the mounting plate to be specifically machined
for your lathe (in which case you will need to feed them information
about the lathe's T-slot), you will receive a blank mounting plate,
which you will need to mill to the proper dimensions for *your* T-slot.
Usually, this simply requires changing something like this:

/ /
/ /
+----------------------------------------+
| |
| | /
| |/
+----------------------------------------+

to something like this:

/ / / / / /
/ / / / / /
/ +------------------+ / / /
/ | |/ / /
+----------+ +----------+ /
| |/
+----------------------------------------+

So it will slide into the T-slot, leaving the height of the center just
a little below the top of the compound when it is pulled up as tight as
it can be. There is a pre-tapped hole in the center of the plate which
accepts the mounting rod on the toolpost.

Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not
bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris
style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on
my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance
on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are
going for the AXA size. :-)

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable
price?

There *is* no reasonable price in my opinion (as a retired
hobbyist on a fixed income) -- especially for a genuine Aloris. As a
result, I have a set of Phase-II wedge style which I got when they were
on sale (Series 200, which is the same size as the Aloris BXA series).
I've added to that extra holders which are Phase-II (always purchase new
American-made setscrews for holding the tool shanks, as the sockets in
the supplied ones tend to split out when you crank down on them). I've
also obtained Genuine Aloris holders from eBay and other used sources,
and purchased two specifically new -- because I could never find them in
an eBay auction which closed any lower than 10% under the new price in
MSC's catalog. :-) Those two are the BXA-16N (which mounts two
triangular carbide inserts -- one for turning and one for facing -- on
opposite ends of the holder), and an extended reach one (whose number I
forget, but you can find them in the MSC catalog) which is particularly
nice when threading, as it allows me to reach in with a threading tool
with proper support without hitting the live center with the toolpost.

Note that AXA size holds up to 1/2" shank tools, while the BXA
holds up to 5/8" shank tools -- and that extra 1/8" does make a
difference in rigidity.

I've also picked up some interesting Aloris only tools,
including a very nice knurling tool in which the knurls are held in two
arms which move on a vertical dovetail, with a leadscrew coupling them
with a left-hand thread for one and a right-hand thread for the other,
so they maintain the centering on the axis (once initially set), while
you adjust the spacing for the size of the workpiece being knurled. The
knurls apply to the top and bottom instead of having to be pressed in
with the cross-slide, so the load forces on the machine are much less
than with the common "bump" style knurlers -- which are often supplied
as part of an Aloris or Aloris-style kit. Those are mostly useful for
facing, using the half-toolholder in the other end. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article
,
matt wrote:

On Dec 31, 11:54*am, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. *What's a reasonable
price?

Joe Gwinn

I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable
imported copies of the Aloris design, on eBay mostly. I ended up
purchasing a new toolpost kit that came with 5 toolholders, in BXA
size. This is the wedge-dovetail clamp design, not the piston-clamp
design. The wedge design is considerably more rigid from a usage
standpoint. The imported kit I bought was about $140 complete, as I
recall. I couldn't justify the $500+ price for the new genuine Aloris
setup. There is a high degree of interchangeability between the
toolholders, though, and I continue to look for Aloris toolholders in
the used market. I see them go for anywhere from $25-75 depending on
condition and type, and the level of supply and demand. There are
several suppliers on eBay that have the same imported kit(s), from
China undoubtedly. I just picked the cheapest price and didn't look
back --

From what I hear, Phase II sells a reasonable Aloris clone. See the
recent posting by DoN in this thread.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-31, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

"Dickenson style" implies multiple makers. What are likely names?
Maybe Myford has a favorite maker?

AFIK, Myford uses genuine Dickenson (or is it Dickensen or some
other variant)?.

It turns out to be "Dickson", according to David Billington of the UK:
"The correct spelling is "Dickson", pic on the right here

As I saw a few articles past the one to which I replied. :-)

http://www.pratt-burnerd.co.uk/specialchucks_7.asp . I have a genuine
Dickson and a Toolmex made one and the holders are interchangeable."

And the current problem is that the site currently has their
catalogs down for updating (presumably for the new year), and they want
me to register to be notified of the update. I tend not to register at
sites unless I *really* need the information. :-)

The interesting thing about the illustration (which I had to
turn on Flash to view -- I hate things like that, too) is that it shows
a version with *three* tool stations, not just two at 90 degree
intervals like mine.

I have the 3-station version.


What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues
whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size

[ ... ]

Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the
holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block
(clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the
tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual
for the Compact-5/CNC.

So, Emco is another possible source.

Note that is *Emco* -- not *Enco*. Emco is the Austrian maker
of lathes and milling machines which made my little 5" CNC lathe. They
used to make a matching manual lathe, but no longer do so.

I was reading it as Enco. Oh well.


[ ... ]

The one I have appears to be intended to mount on a cylindrical post
with a smaller cylindrical screw clamping it down. There is a sliding
pin with a rounded nose that is intended to engage location holes at
various angles in a plate that is not in evidence, to prevent rotation.
There is no taper.

O.K. There was no index detent on this one -- but the taper at
the bottom would lock it firmly once clamped down.

Probably the taper is used in a later version. It would be tough to
make the pin-in-hole version completely rigid, so I assume that one also
torques the central bolt down tight. Actually, the purpose of the pin
is probably to prevent annoying rotation while torquing down. Tapers
lock almost immediately, making rotation less of a problem.

The pin is almost certainly not intended to lock it in position,
but just to be an indicator to tell you when you have rotated it
sufficiently to cut the bevel which you want.

I tend to keep mine oriented so one side is parallel to the
workpiece axis and the other parallel to the chuck face. If I want a
bevel, I switch toolholders to one with an insert at the desired angle.
This assures that it is properly set up to hold threading insert tools
in the right position -- unless I've had to change the angle of the
compound -- such as for switching between standard threading or Acme
threading (or potentially Whitworth threading, if I ever do that), or
switching from right-hand threading to left-hand threading or back. In
those cases, I need to re-orient the BXA holder on my compound on the
12x24" Clausing. For the Compact-5/CNC with the Dickson style toolpost,
there is never any need to change the angle of the toolpost, as all
angled cuts are handled by the CNC itself -- including threading infeed.

I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.

Note that when you get a new post -- even from Aloris -- unless
you have paid extra for the mounting plate to be specifically machined
for your lathe (in which case you will need to feed them information
about the lathe's T-slot), you will receive a blank mounting plate,
which you will need to mill to the proper dimensions for *your* T-slot.
Usually, this simply requires changing something like this:

/ /
/ /
+----------------------------------------+
| |
| | /
| |/
+----------------------------------------+

to something like this:

/ / / / / /
/ / / / / /
/ +------------------+ / / /
/ | |/ / /
+----------+ +----------+ /
| |/
+----------------------------------------+

So it will slide into the T-slot, leaving the height of the center just
a little below the top of the compound when it is pulled up as tight as
it can be. There is a pre-tapped hole in the center of the plate which
accepts the mounting rod on the toolpost.

Is the above plate what becomes the big T-nut that goes in the big
T-slot on the top of the compound rest? If so, it came with one of
these. It looks shopmade, by someone with a vertical mill. The T-nut
screws onto a piece of 5/8-18 UNF threaded rod that goes through the
toolpost body, a spacer, and a hex nut. The big problem with the
shopmade T-nut is that the 5/8-18 thread is not quite perpendicular to
the faces of the T-Nut, and so the nut wobbles visibly on the rod. The
rod threads are damaged, and the rod may also be slightly bent. So they
had the mill, but perhaps not quite the skill.

What appears to be missing is the shallow "T-nut" plate that goes
between the top of the compound rest and the bottom of the toolpost
body, and has a series of 8mm holes to accept the index pin. I assume
that this plate also serves to space the toolpost up to the correct
height with respect to the spindle axis.


Understood. It is not a common style in the US. I would not
bother using it for long -- but instead keep an eye out for an Aloris
style wedge in BXA size given the size of your machine. (I use BXA on
my 12x24" and am quite happy with it. And you even have a better chance
on eBay going for BXA than for AXA, because more of the hobby users are
going for the AXA size. :-)

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable
price?

There *is* no reasonable price in my opinion (as a retired
hobbyist on a fixed income) -- especially for a genuine Aloris. As a
result, I have a set of Phase-II wedge style which I got when they were
on sale (Series 200, which is the same size as the Aloris BXA series).
I've added to that extra holders which are Phase-II (always purchase new
American-made setscrews for holding the tool shanks, as the sockets in
the supplied ones tend to split out when you crank down on them). I've
also obtained Genuine Aloris holders from eBay and other used sources,
and purchased two specifically new -- because I could never find them in
an eBay auction which closed any lower than 10% under the new price in
MSC's catalog. :-) Those two are the BXA-16N (which mounts two
triangular carbide inserts -- one for turning and one for facing -- on
opposite ends of the holder), and an extended reach one (whose number I
forget, but you can find them in the MSC catalog) which is particularly
nice when threading, as it allows me to reach in with a threading tool
with proper support without hitting the live center with the toolpost.

Note that AXA size holds up to 1/2" shank tools, while the BXA
holds up to 5/8" shank tools -- and that extra 1/8" does make a
difference in rigidity.

Yes. Rigidity varies as the cube of the critical dimension (diameter in
this case), so (0.625/0.500)^3= 1.95, call it twice as rigid.


I've also picked up some interesting Aloris only tools,
including a very nice knurling tool in which the knurls are held in two
arms which move on a vertical dovetail, with a leadscrew coupling them
with a left-hand thread for one and a right-hand thread for the other,
so they maintain the centering on the axis (once initially set), while
you adjust the spacing for the size of the workpiece being knurled. The
knurls apply to the top and bottom instead of having to be pressed in
with the cross-slide, so the load forces on the machine are much less
than with the common "bump" style knurlers -- which are often supplied
as part of an Aloris or Aloris-style kit. Those are mostly useful for
facing, using the half-toolholder in the other end. :-)

I think I need an Aloris catalog, to know the options and their prices.


Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-29, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:


[ ... ]

If you have the collet adaptor in the spindle, and the locking
ring around the spindle is not rattling loose, then it must be drawn up
on a nose protector. To eject the adaptor:

1) Remove any collet from the adaptor.

2) Start turning the ring to unscrew it from the protector. It
will start a bit tight (especially with your spooge), then get
loose, then as it move far enough to touch the flange of the
adaptor, will get tight again until you move it far enough so
the collet adaptor pops loose. (Keep a hand ready to catch it,
it may jump quite a ways, given how long it probably has been in
place.)

I'll try this.

[snip]

I have no idea what many of the knobs and handles on the lathe do, or
how to take it apart, and will order the manual from Clausing next week.

The manual will be a significant help. However, until it gets
there we'll see how much I can provide from my 5418 belt change lathe.

As it happens, I have a scanned 5418 manual. No idea how I got it or
where from.

Perhaps from me. (Perhaps through a roundabout path :-) If it
were not so late, I would dig it up and we could compare the serial
number on the front.

1) On the carriage you will find:

[ ... ]

d) A short lever which moves in a 'Z' shaped groove. Up
engages slow feed along the bed. Down engages slow
cross feed. It has to be slid along the center bar of
the 'Z' to switch from one to the other, so you are
unlikely to overshoot and go from longitudinal to
cross-feed or vice versa when you simply want to stop.
You should use this for feeds when cutting, and leave
the half-nuts only for use when threading.

This does not match, although something must perform a like function.

The lever sticks out of a cylinder which is mounted parallel to
the ways on the center of the front of the apron. The 'Z' is rather
square in shape -- but there is no other letter closer to it. The
center runs parallel to the axis of the cylinder, and the two crossbars
go up or down around the cylinder to allow the lever to rotate something
inside the cylinder.

I found it.


2) Below the bed under the headstock is the quick-change threading
gearbox. It has:

[ ... ]

b) A paddle lever on top which has three positions, left,
center, and right -- with center pointing out at you.

This selects one of three factors-of-two reduction
ratios before the lever just mentioned.

Must be there somewhere, but no paddle lever.

Looking at the photo which someone posted, the paddle lever has
been replaced with a black knob on the front. It either rotates to
select the three positions, or it pulls out and pushes in with detents.
Look for numbers on the front as a clue as to whether it rotates or
pulls.

I have the black knob, with three positions marked A, B, and C.


That also shows the lever which I mentioned above in the center
of the apron. look for a black plastic ball knob closer to the headstock
than the one for the half-nuts.

[ ... ]

Now -- we get to things in which yours will differ from mine, as
you have variable speed. Sometimes that is from a wheel with two levers
on top of the headstock, or sometimes a crank and a lever from the front
of the pedestal below the headstock. I've not used these, as mine has
belts which you change after opening the front of the pedestal and no
variable speed. So -- I can't guide you on these. Mine also has a
switch box on the front left of the headstock with a lever and knob for
selecting motor behavior.

Left is forwards.

Center is stopped.

Right is reverse.

Yours probably at least has a start-stop switch. I don't know
whether your variable speed also offers forward/reverse selection or
whether you need to switch the motor for that.

It has a three-position switch: forward-off-reverse. I will bypass this
switch, as the VFD will not approve of live switching of motor wiring.

Keep the switch -- but wire it to the control pins of the VFD
instead of the motor windings. There are enough contacts in the switch
so you can easily find a SPDTCO (Single-Pole Double-Throw, Center-Off)
section to run to the VFD's control pins. It is likely to be combined
with a second switch throwing the other way for the other side of a
winding which is normally reversed by the switching. Just ignore this
other side. :-)

It will certainly have enough contacts.

I would mention that one must use shielded wire from VFD to this switch.
Likewise, to any speed-control pot.


Of course -- you will have to dig through the manual of your VFD
to find the parameter which needs to be set to get it to pay attention
to the control contacts instead of the front panel buttons.

Not a problem. Already figured out how to do this for the Mill, when I
built a control pendant.


The mechanical variable-speed control does not reverse; this is
accomplished by the above switch.

O.K. So you *want* to wire the switch to control the VFD. Any
other arrangement is more awkward and develops the wrong muscle memory
for using other lathes.

Yes. My only worry is if abrupt reversal of direction through off will
cause a problem. I think it's OK to do this, because it's only a
command the the VFD, which can implement the command gracefully, without
sparks. But I'll be reading the VFD manual.


At a guess -- the one in the photo with the red knob is what
connects to the switch -- and the vertical moving lever to the left is
the one which reversed the direction of the leadscrew for cutting
left-hand threads or turning with power feed from outside to inside when
facing. (The default with right-to-left motion of the carriage is
cutting from the center out.) Never throw this switch with the spindle
turning.

All correct.

I've figured out all the controls on the headstock. The key was the
metal chart telling what combination of controls gives what thread pitch.

Joe Gwinn

On 2008-01-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

On 2007-12-31, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

What *I* have is labeled with an EMCO tag, with no clues
whether it was made by someone else. I have seen a set of the same size

[ ... ]

Emco also made a different version where the T-slot in the
holders is off center, and a T-headed bolt runs through the block
(clearing the center bolt) with a nut on the opposite side to lock the
tool holder down. I've never seen these except in the service manual
for the Compact-5/CNC.

So, Emco is another possible source.

Note that is *Emco* -- not *Enco*. Emco is the Austrian maker
of lathes and milling machines which made my little 5" CNC lathe. They
used to make a matching manual lathe, but no longer do so.

I was reading it as Enco. Oh well.

That is what I was afraid of. It is a pity that the two names
are so similar.

[ ... ]

I don't think this toolpost came with the lathe, as it is cobbled to the
lathe.

Note that when you get a new post -- even from Aloris -- unless
you have paid extra for the mounting plate to be specifically machined
for your lathe (in which case you will need to feed them information
about the lathe's T-slot), you will receive a blank mounting plate,
which you will need to mill to the proper dimensions for *your* T-slot.
Usually, this simply requires changing something like this:

/ /
/ /
+----------------------------------------+
| |
| | /
| |/
+----------------------------------------+

to something like this:

/ / / / / /
/ / / / / /
/ +------------------+ / / /
/ | |/ / /
+----------+ +----------+ /
| |/
+----------------------------------------+

So it will slide into the T-slot, leaving the height of the center just
a little below the top of the compound when it is pulled up as tight as
it can be. There is a pre-tapped hole in the center of the plate which
accepts the mounting rod on the toolpost.

Is the above plate what becomes the big T-nut that goes in the big
T-slot on the top of the compound rest?

That is correct. It comes as a blank with a new toolpost (at
least so with the new Phase-II toolpost, which is the only post which I
have had new.)

If so, it came with one of
these. It looks shopmade, by someone with a vertical mill. The T-nut
screws onto a piece of 5/8-18 UNF threaded rod that goes through the
toolpost body, a spacer, and a hex nut. The big problem with the
shopmade T-nut is that the 5/8-18 thread is not quite perpendicular to
the faces of the T-Nut, and so the nut wobbles visibly on the rod. The
rod threads are damaged, and the rod may also be slightly bent. So they
had the mill, but perhaps not quite the skill.

Hmm ... the Phase-II has a metric thread which is quite similar
to your 5/8-18 -- probably a 16mm thread. And the plate comes
pre-tapped in the center of the plate -- but you do have to mill down
the plate to make it into a 'T'.

What appears to be missing is the shallow "T-nut" plate that goes
between the top of the compound rest and the bottom of the toolpost
body, and has a series of 8mm holes to accept the index pin. I assume
that this plate also serves to space the toolpost up to the correct
height with respect to the spindle axis.

Did you see one in the Dickson catalog? (I got there too late
to download it, so I don't know what it has. Probably there is a new
one up by now. :-)

But my guess that the pin served for an index was assuming that
it was spring loaded and did not project very far. Looking at the
images from the Toolmex catalog, I see that there is a pin which goes
all the way through the body of the toolpost -- which suggests that it
is expecting a hole to be drilled to accept it for setting it properly,
but that won't work on a compound like what we have on the Clausings,
because those can be set to any angle. You might drill a hole to match
the pin at the single most common setting (on my Clausing and Phase-II
toolpost, that would be at the 29-1/2 degrees for right-hand threading.

However -- my Emco clone of a Dickson does *not* have such a
pin, and there is where such a pin would be most useful, since the
toolpost mounts directly to a steel plate on the cross slide, and it
can't be set to other angles.

As for the height -- that is handled by the nuts on the screws
on the tool holders -- so each is set to the proper height for its own
tool. I somehow doubt that you would need to block up the ToolMex or
Dickson on the Clausing compound.

But -- perhaps you should get some stock of the proper thickness
and size and make your own T-nut with the threading being done in the
lathe -- mark the center by scribing a pair of diagonal lines between
opposite corners. Hold it in the 4-jaw chuck and adjust so that
intersection point is truly on center. Then center drill for a start,
drill through tap drill size, and using the live center in the center
hole in the back end of the tap, drive the tap with a wrench as you use
the live center to push it. I would use a gun tap if available, to
avoid having to keep backing up the center and the tap to break chips.

Once the hole is on center -- and truly perpendicular to the
plate -- then mill the sides to make it into the right size T-nut. I've
done this to make a spare T-nut with the right post threads to allow
mounting a toolpost grinder on the compound. And *that* I also needed
to make a spacer cylinder to start it off at proper center height to
save time during subsequent setups. (I haven't actually *used* the
toolpost grinder yet -- but it is now ready for use. :-)

[ ... ]

I'll keep an eye out for BXA posts and holders. What's a reasonable
price?

There *is* no reasonable price in my opinion (as a retired
hobbyist on a fixed income) -- especially for a genuine Aloris. As a
result, I have a set of Phase-II wedge style which I got when they were

[ ... ]

Note that AXA size holds up to 1/2" shank tools, while the BXA
holds up to 5/8" shank tools -- and that extra 1/8" does make a
difference in rigidity.

Yes. Rigidity varies as the cube of the critical dimension (diameter in
this case), so (0.625/0.500)^3= 1.95, call it twice as rigid.

Well ... since the shanks are square, there is no diameter here,
but that is close enough. :-) Probably a little more strength for the
corners which would be missing in a round shank -- but pretty much the
same for both sizes of square shank so the ratio is probably the same.

I've also picked up some interesting Aloris only tools,
including a very nice knurling tool in which the knurls are held in two
arms which move on a vertical dovetail, with a leadscrew coupling them
with a left-hand thread for one and a right-hand thread for the other,
so they maintain the centering on the axis (once initially set), while
you adjust the spacing for the size of the workpiece being knurled. The
knurls apply to the top and bottom instead of having to be pressed in
with the cross-slide, so the load forces on the machine are much less
than with the common "bump" style knurlers -- which are often supplied
as part of an Aloris or Aloris-style kit. Those are mostly useful for
facing, using the half-toolholder in the other end. :-)

I think I need an Aloris catalog, to know the options and their prices.

That will tell you the options -- but I don't think that you
will find prices. For that, I use my MSC catalog as the reference. (It
also has a pretty good listing for all of the options available.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-01-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

If you have the collet adaptor in the spindle, and the locking
ring around the spindle is not rattling loose, then it must be drawn up
on a nose protector. To eject the adaptor:

1) Remove any collet from the adaptor.

2) Start turning the ring to unscrew it from the protector. It
will start a bit tight (especially with your spooge), then get
loose, then as it move far enough to touch the flange of the
adaptor, will get tight again until you move it far enough so
the collet adaptor pops loose. (Keep a hand ready to catch it,
it may jump quite a ways, given how long it probably has been in
place.)

I'll try this.

It should work -- and then give you a chance to clean the
threads of both the ring and the nose protector.

I always store the collet adaptor in the protector so I will
remember to put it on before installing the collet adaptor. :-)

[ ... ]

Must be there somewhere, but no paddle lever.

Looking at the photo which someone posted, the paddle lever has
been replaced with a black knob on the front. It either rotates to
select the three positions, or it pulls out and pushes in with detents.
Look for numbers on the front as a clue as to whether it rotates or
pulls.

I have the black knob, with three positions marked A, B, and C.

Good. The chart lists the paddle lever positions as left,
center, and right. Less space on yours.

[ ... ]

It has a three-position switch: forward-off-reverse. I will bypass this
switch, as the VFD will not approve of live switching of motor wiring.

Keep the switch -- but wire it to the control pins of the VFD
instead of the motor windings. There are enough contacts in the switch
so you can easily find a SPDTCO (Single-Pole Double-Throw, Center-Off)
section to run to the VFD's control pins. It is likely to be combined
with a second switch throwing the other way for the other side of a
winding which is normally reversed by the switching. Just ignore this
other side. :-)

It will certainly have enough contacts.

I would mention that one must use shielded wire from VFD to this switch.
Likewise, to any speed-control pot.

Agreed. And you can make a housing for the pot to mount just
below the switch, perhaps?

Of course -- you will have to dig through the manual of your VFD
to find the parameter which needs to be set to get it to pay attention
to the control contacts instead of the front panel buttons.

Not a problem. Already figured out how to do this for the Mill, when I
built a control pendant.

Good enough.

The mechanical variable-speed control does not reverse; this is
accomplished by the above switch.

O.K. So you *want* to wire the switch to control the VFD. Any
other arrangement is more awkward and develops the wrong muscle memory
for using other lathes.

Yes. My only worry is if abrupt reversal of direction through off will
cause a problem. I think it's OK to do this, because it's only a
command the the VFD, which can implement the command gracefully, without
sparks. But I'll be reading the VFD manual.

Remember -- the VFD has a programmable acceleration and
deceleration. Those values are used when the switch goes from forward
to reverse as well. (Which can make such switching a bit safer with a
threaded nose, as you are less likely to unscrew the chuck. :-) But
with your L-00 nose, there is no problem anyway.

[ ... ]

I've figured out all the controls on the headstock. The key was the
metal chart telling what combination of controls gives what thread pitch.

Good.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

" I have shopped for genuine Aloris (USA-made) and the unavoidable
imported copies of the Aloris design, on eBay mostly. I ended up
purchasing a new toolpost kit that came with 5 toolholders, in BXA
size. This is the wedge-dovetail clamp design, not the piston-clamp
design. The wedge design is considerably more rigid from a usage
standpoint. The imported kit I bought was about $140 complete, as I
recall. I couldn't justify the $500+ price for the new genuine Aloris
setup. There is a high degree of interchangeability between the
toolholders, though, and I continue to look for Aloris toolholders in
the used market. I see them go for anywhere from $25-75 depending on
condition and type, and the level of supply and demand. There are
several suppliers on eBay that have the same imported kit(s), from
China undoubtedly. I just picked the cheapest price and didn't look
back --

From what I hear, Phase II sells a reasonable Aloris clone. See the
recent posting by DoN in this thread.

Joe Gwinn

my experience is that the chinese (and worse, Indian) copies of Aloris are
really not up to snuff - for about the same price as new chinese you can
get used Aloris - the hardening is better, the operation is smoother, and
the fit is better



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