Hi Guys,

I have the option of purchasing a South Bend Heavy 10 with D1-4 Chuck or a
Clausing 5914 lathe. Both are tooled about the same and price is about
equal ($2,600). Which is more rigid and would be considered a better lathe?
I am a hobbyist but want to purchase a commercial quality lathe. Would I be
better off passing on both and looking for a larger more rigid model?

Thanks afor the help.

Joe

"JB" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,

I have the option of purchasing a South Bend Heavy 10 with D1-4 Chuck or a
Clausing 5914 lathe. Both are tooled about the same and price is about
equal ($2,600). Which is more rigid and would be considered a better
lathe? I am a hobbyist but want to purchase a commercial quality lathe.
Would I be better off passing on both and looking for a larger more rigid
model?

Thanks afor the help.

Joe

That SB better be super tight and minty fresh at that price, or include a
taper attachment, steady rest and Aloris toolpost plus a bunch of nice
goodies.

"JB" wrote in message
...
Hi Guys,

I have the option of purchasing a South Bend Heavy 10 with D1-4 Chuck or a
Clausing 5914 lathe. Both are tooled about the same and price is about
equal ($2,600). Which is more rigid and would be considered a better
lathe? I am a hobbyist but want to purchase a commercial quality lathe.
Would I be better off passing on both and looking for a larger more rigid
model?

Thanks afor the help.

Joe

In article ,
JB wrote:
Hi Guys,

I have the option of purchasing a South Bend Heavy 10 with D1-4 Chuck or a
Clausing 5914 lathe. Both are tooled about the same and price is about
equal ($2,600). Which is more rigid and would be considered a better lathe?
I am a hobbyist but want to purchase a commercial quality lathe. Would I be
better off passing on both and looking for a larger more rigid model?

Personally, I would go for the 5914 (assuming that the
variable-speed mechanism -- if fitted -- is in good shape.)

The 5914 should be (like my 5418) a 12" swing lathe, with
adequate diameter though the spindle so it can directly use 5C collets
with either a handwheel drawbar or a lever-style drawbar (which is what
I have).

I *think* that the "Heavy 10" will also handle the same collet
setups.

How about defining "tooled about the same"?

3-jaw chuck -- ideally with two-piece jaws so you can use soft jaws when
appropriate. a 6" or 6-1/4" diameter chuck is about
right for a 12" machine. Perhaps a 5" for the 10"
South Bend.

4-jaw independent chuck -- for a 12" machine, a 10" chuck is the maximum
size. For the 10" machine, probably an 8" chuck.

faceplate -- for bolting awkward workpieces to when a chuck just
won't work.

dog driver -- looks like a smaller faceplate, but instead of having
slots (which don't extend to the OD) for bolting down
workpieces, these will have one fat slot which extends
to the OD, and another fat slot which covers smaller
diameters.

collet closer -- Ideally a lever style, but a handwheel style still
beats none. 5C collets are vastly preferred, because
they are made and used in such quantities so you can get
them relatively inexpensively -- especially if you
expect to damage the collet with the work and don't want
to put your nice ones to that kind of use.

taper attachment -- A very nice attachment to have for the lathe. It
makes it easier to make your own adaptor sleeves and
other such things.

steady rest -- For working on the outboard end of something which
can't be mounted between centers, yet is too long to
properly support only at one end.

follower rest -- Necessary for turning long thin workpieces to size
and for threading them full length -- especially nice
for making a replacement acme leadscrew for your lathe
or something else.

QC toolpost -- Ideally an Aloris BXA for the 12" machine. For the 10"
SB, perhaps only an AXA, depending on what will fit
properly. A BXA will handle 5/8" shank tooling, while
the AXA only 1/2" -- so the BXA is more rigid.

The more toolholders which come with this the better.
Ignore the standard knurling holder, with a pair of
knurls at one end, and a slot for a facing or boring
tool on the other end.

In particular, I like the BXA-16N holder, which is
designed to take two triangular inserts (the 'N' is for
negative rake, which can include inserts which provide a
positive rake by a properly dimensioned chipbreaker
groove). This is probably my most often used holder,
kept set up with good general purpose inserts. One
insert is used for turning, and the other for facing,
and the height adjustment covers both at once -- you set
it properly for one and the other will be right as well.

Live center -- (ball bearing center) in the proper taper for your
tailstock.

Dead center -- for the headstock spindle taper (or an adaptor sleeve).
Once upon a time, this was called the "live" center,
because it was powered by the spindle, and rotated,
while the tailstock one did not.

Adaptor sleeve -- To fit your spindle's taper to a convenient taper
for both a center and for driving tooling.

Bed Turret -- Not likely, but possible. This will handle (typically)
six tools, (manually) feeding each to a preset depth,
and then advancing to the next tool when the turret ram
is fully withdrawn. My Clausing came with one with a
matching serial number to that on the lathe. But -- I
had to chase down a normal tailstock to fit the machine.

******* Now for a couple of unusual chucks *******

6-jaw chuck -- Nice when working on relatively thin-walled tubing, as
the extra jaws significantly reduce the distortion
caused by the chucking. Two-piece jaws would be nice
here, or at least make sure that you also have the
outside set of jaws with it. Mine does not have either,
so I am somewhat limited by what I can do with that
chuck.

4-jaw *universal* -- unlike the 4-jaw independent mentioned above, this
one has all four jaws moved at the same time by a key
just as in the usual 3-jaw chuck. It is particularly
nice for lots of work on square stock (as it will be
close to well enough centered for most work, just as a
3-jaw). It is also better for thin-walled workpieces
than a 3-jaw, but not as good as a 6-jaw.

******* General chuck information *******

For *any* of the universal chucks (3-jaw, special 4-jaw,
and 6-jaw, an "adjust-tru" style is a noticeable
benefit, as it allows you to tune the chuck to being
more true to the center of the spindle than is normally
the case with a universal chuck. The 4-jaw independent
can get anything set true with a bit of work, but you
have to repeat the work for each workpiece. With the
"adjust-tru" or "set-true" (or whatever the manufacturer
chooses to call it), once you set it for a given
diameter workpiece, it will be quite close for repeats
of that diameter -- unless the scroll and jaws are badly
worn.

Soft jaws can be bored to fit a given workpiece
diameter, and are easier to true than the "adjust-tru"
style, and are particularly nice when you need a depth
stop as part of the workholding, so all the pieces
match the length. There is a limit to how many times
you can bore the soft jaws for through fed workpieces,
so each system has its place.


I'm sure that there must be something which I have forgotten.
But this is what I can think of to watch for on your candidate lathes.
The more of these you find, the better -- assuming that the machine is
in good condition.

Best of luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Don,

Many thanks for the response. After reading your post I did a little more
checking. The SB comes with far more of the tools you mentioned than the
Clasusing. Both lathes are in great condition but it is now apparent that
the SB is better tooled. Having said that, is the Clasing a more rigid
lathe that would make you lean towards it even with less tooling?

Thanks again.

Joe...

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article ,
JB wrote:
Hi Guys,

I have the option of purchasing a South Bend Heavy 10 with D1-4 Chuck or a
Clausing 5914 lathe. Both are tooled about the same and price is about
equal ($2,600). Which is more rigid and would be considered a better
lathe?
I am a hobbyist but want to purchase a commercial quality lathe. Would I
be
better off passing on both and looking for a larger more rigid model?

Personally, I would go for the 5914 (assuming that the
variable-speed mechanism -- if fitted -- is in good shape.)

The 5914 should be (like my 5418) a 12" swing lathe, with
adequate diameter though the spindle so it can directly use 5C collets
with either a handwheel drawbar or a lever-style drawbar (which is what
I have).

I *think* that the "Heavy 10" will also handle the same collet
setups.

How about defining "tooled about the same"?

3-jaw chuck -- ideally with two-piece jaws so you can use soft jaws when
appropriate. a 6" or 6-1/4" diameter chuck is about
right for a 12" machine. Perhaps a 5" for the 10"
South Bend.

4-jaw independent chuck -- for a 12" machine, a 10" chuck is the maximum
size. For the 10" machine, probably an 8" chuck.

faceplate -- for bolting awkward workpieces to when a chuck just
won't work.

dog driver -- looks like a smaller faceplate, but instead of having
slots (which don't extend to the OD) for bolting down
workpieces, these will have one fat slot which extends
to the OD, and another fat slot which covers smaller
diameters.

collet closer -- Ideally a lever style, but a handwheel style still
beats none. 5C collets are vastly preferred, because
they are made and used in such quantities so you can get
them relatively inexpensively -- especially if you
expect to damage the collet with the work and don't want
to put your nice ones to that kind of use.

taper attachment -- A very nice attachment to have for the lathe. It
makes it easier to make your own adaptor sleeves and
other such things.

steady rest -- For working on the outboard end of something which
can't be mounted between centers, yet is too long to
properly support only at one end.

follower rest -- Necessary for turning long thin workpieces to size
and for threading them full length -- especially nice
for making a replacement acme leadscrew for your lathe
or something else.

QC toolpost -- Ideally an Aloris BXA for the 12" machine. For the 10"
SB, perhaps only an AXA, depending on what will fit
properly. A BXA will handle 5/8" shank tooling, while
the AXA only 1/2" -- so the BXA is more rigid.

The more toolholders which come with this the better.
Ignore the standard knurling holder, with a pair of
knurls at one end, and a slot for a facing or boring
tool on the other end.

In particular, I like the BXA-16N holder, which is
designed to take two triangular inserts (the 'N' is for
negative rake, which can include inserts which provide a
positive rake by a properly dimensioned chipbreaker
groove). This is probably my most often used holder,
kept set up with good general purpose inserts. One
insert is used for turning, and the other for facing,
and the height adjustment covers both at once -- you set
it properly for one and the other will be right as well.

Live center -- (ball bearing center) in the proper taper for your
tailstock.

Dead center -- for the headstock spindle taper (or an adaptor sleeve).
Once upon a time, this was called the "live" center,
because it was powered by the spindle, and rotated,
while the tailstock one did not.

Adaptor sleeve -- To fit your spindle's taper to a convenient taper
for both a center and for driving tooling.

Bed Turret -- Not likely, but possible. This will handle (typically)
six tools, (manually) feeding each to a preset depth,
and then advancing to the next tool when the turret ram
is fully withdrawn. My Clausing came with one with a
matching serial number to that on the lathe. But -- I
had to chase down a normal tailstock to fit the machine.

******* Now for a couple of unusual chucks *******

6-jaw chuck -- Nice when working on relatively thin-walled tubing, as
the extra jaws significantly reduce the distortion
caused by the chucking. Two-piece jaws would be nice
here, or at least make sure that you also have the
outside set of jaws with it. Mine does not have either,
so I am somewhat limited by what I can do with that
chuck.

4-jaw *universal* -- unlike the 4-jaw independent mentioned above, this
one has all four jaws moved at the same time by a key
just as in the usual 3-jaw chuck. It is particularly
nice for lots of work on square stock (as it will be
close to well enough centered for most work, just as a
3-jaw). It is also better for thin-walled workpieces
than a 3-jaw, but not as good as a 6-jaw.

******* General chuck information *******

For *any* of the universal chucks (3-jaw, special 4-jaw,
and 6-jaw, an "adjust-tru" style is a noticeable
benefit, as it allows you to tune the chuck to being
more true to the center of the spindle than is normally
the case with a universal chuck. The 4-jaw independent
can get anything set true with a bit of work, but you
have to repeat the work for each workpiece. With the
"adjust-tru" or "set-true" (or whatever the manufacturer
chooses to call it), once you set it for a given
diameter workpiece, it will be quite close for repeats
of that diameter -- unless the scroll and jaws are badly
worn.

Soft jaws can be bored to fit a given workpiece
diameter, and are easier to true than the "adjust-tru"
style, and are particularly nice when you need a depth
stop as part of the workholding, so all the pieces
match the length. There is a limit to how many times
you can bore the soft jaws for through fed workpieces,
so each system has its place.


I'm sure that there must be something which I have forgotten.
But this is what I can think of to watch for on your candidate lathes.
The more of these you find, the better -- assuming that the machine is
in good condition.

Best of luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article ,
JB wrote:
Don,

Many thanks for the response. After reading your post I did a little more
checking. The SB comes with far more of the tools you mentioned than the
Clasusing. Both lathes are in great condition but it is now apparent that
the SB is better tooled. Having said that, is the Clasing a more rigid
lathe that would make you lean towards it even with less tooling?

Yes, it would. But perhaps because I *own* a Clausing, and am
accustomed to its rigidity. I tend to use the largest shank tooling
which will fit in the quick-change holder for that very reason.

Prices for spare parts from Clausing Service Center have in the
past been more affordable than equivalent parts for the SB (based on
postings here over the years). However, the prices on some parts have
doubled in the past six or so years. This does show that they are
continuing to *make* parts for them, not just to sell off old stock, so
you can expect this sort of thing to happen as manufacturing costs go
up.

You probably should get opinions from others as well -- since I
am obviously biased.

Thanks again.

You're welcome,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

If you have the space and getting the machine to its "home" is not a problem
I would go with a heavier machine. The Clausing is nice but from what I have
seen parts are getting very pricing and the drive setup can be a re bitch.
The SB for that price is over priced unless it has hard ways is near perfect
and has ALL the goodies. Lathes that are one step up often cost less, up
here in the north east $2600 will buy a very nice lathe. I picked up a very
nice SB 14" fully tooled for under $1000. I have it and a heavy 10, I
haven't used my heavy 10 more than 2 times since I bought the 14", the
amazing thing is the heavy 10 has better resale. if you go to
www.motherearthrecycling.net and click on "shop" you can see both. I will be
selling the heavy 10 in a month or so. (when prices rebound some). Last
week was the time to buy, prices will go up some for the winter.
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article ,
JB wrote:
Don,

Many thanks for the response. After reading your post I did a little more
checking. The SB comes with far more of the tools you mentioned than the
Clasusing. Both lathes are in great condition but it is now apparent that
the SB is better tooled. Having said that, is the Clasing a more rigid
lathe that would make you lean towards it even with less tooling?

Yes, it would. But perhaps because I *own* a Clausing, and am
accustomed to its rigidity. I tend to use the largest shank tooling
which will fit in the quick-change holder for that very reason.

Prices for spare parts from Clausing Service Center have in the
past been more affordable than equivalent parts for the SB (based on
postings here over the years). However, the prices on some parts have
doubled in the past six or so years. This does show that they are
continuing to *make* parts for them, not just to sell off old stock, so
you can expect this sort of thing to happen as manufacturing costs go
up.

You probably should get opinions from others as well -- since I
am obviously biased.

Thanks again.

You're welcome,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:46:01 -0400, Waynemak wrote:

I will be selling the heavy 10 in a month or so.

Wayne, What type of spindle nose does that Heavy 10
have? Threaded? Cam-lock?


Thanks.

Its threaded, the 14" is a d1-4, if the heavy 10 was a d mount I might keep
it. The heavy 10 has a very nice buck adjust set 6 jaw chuck.
"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 20:46:01 -0400, Waynemak wrote:

I will be selling the heavy 10 in a month or so.

Wayne, What type of spindle nose does that Heavy 10
have? Threaded? Cam-lock?


Thanks.

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:17:11 -0400, "JB"
wrote:

Hi Guys,

I have the option of purchasing a South Bend Heavy 10 with D1-4 Chuck or a
Clausing 5914 lathe. Both are tooled about the same and price is about
equal ($2,600). Which is more rigid and would be considered a better lathe?
I am a hobbyist but want to purchase a commercial quality lathe. Would I be
better off passing on both and looking for a larger more rigid model?

Thanks afor the help.

Joe

I would pay less attention to the tooling than to the lathe itself,
and go with the best lathe. That would probably be the Clausing if
it's in good shape. The tooling would then only come into
consideration in deciding if the price was OK for the lot. A lathe
you're not happy with is no bargain even if it came with lots of
tooling. You can incrementally add/upgrade tooling later once you
have a lathe that you're happy with.

No comment on the prices since I haven't seen the machines and haven't
shopped for a long time.