I am new to this site. I found it while searching for information on
my lathe. A number of years ago I became the third generation owner of
a Sennca Falls 10" Star (?) lathe. The lathe was build somewhere
around 1900.

I have used it mostly for woodworking and occasionally turning down a
shaft to size. Recently, I became interested in doing more with metal
working and started reading old lathe books, such as the Amateur's
Lathe by L.H Sparey, to learn how to operate the lathe.

My lathe does not have a compound tool rest. How important is this
rest in lathe work? Can one be fitted on to it lathe? Does anyone
know where I might find a compound rest for the Sennca Falls lathe?
How complicated would it be to do light milling on the machine? I
apologize for all the questions. I have no one I can turn to for
answers.

I know that I could purchase a more modern lathe. However, I sometimes
have an almost spiritual attachment to that lathe. I know I will be
the last of my family to use it. It sometimes seems as if my father
and grandfather are watching over my shoulders while I use the old
lathe.

Thanks,
John

I have a 10" Atlas of about the same vintage. I have an irrational
emotional attachment for this machine. Getting it mounted and zeroed in
can be a problem. G
Seriously, the compound rest is essential for any kind of precision
metal turning, although hand turners did some impressive work freehand
in metal. Watch and clock makers still do it . . . in miniature.
I would haunt scrapyards and other such places. Take the dimensions of
the ways on you lathe and look for a compound that could be adapted.
The other approach is to make your own design and fabricate it. This of
course will require you to have access to a lathe and milling machine,
along with the skills to make the parts.
Good luck.
Bugs

In article .com, jmiguez
says...

I am new to this site. I found it while searching for information on
my lathe. A number of years ago I became the third generation owner of
a Sennca Falls 10" Star (?) lathe. The lathe was build somewhere
around 1900.

I have used it mostly for woodworking and occasionally turning down a
shaft to size. Recently, I became interested in doing more with metal
working and started reading old lathe books, such as the Amateur's
Lathe by L.H Sparey, to learn how to operate the lathe.

My lathe does not have a compound tool rest. How important is this
rest in lathe work? Can one be fitted on to it lathe? Does anyone
know where I might find a compound rest for the Sennca Falls lathe?
How complicated would it be to do light milling on the machine? I
apologize for all the questions. I have no one I can turn to for
answers.

A good place to look would be the practical machinst board. See:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

and in particular look at the antique sections, there is currently
a thread running there about seneca falls lathes, and one guy g
even owns one like yours, without a compound rest.

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca2.jpg

You could do milling on a machine like that with something like a
palmgren attachment. Very light milling.

Jim

I know that I could purchase a more modern lathe. However, I sometimes
have an almost spiritual attachment to that lathe. I know I will be
the last of my family to use it. It sometimes seems as if my father
and grandfather are watching over my shoulders while I use the old
lathe.

Thanks,
John



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"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
jmiguez
says...

I am new to this site. I found it while searching for information on
my lathe. A number of years ago I became the third generation owner of
a Sennca Falls 10" Star (?) lathe. The lathe was build somewhere
around 1900.

I have used it mostly for woodworking and occasionally turning down a
shaft to size. Recently, I became interested in doing more with metal
working and started reading old lathe books, such as the Amateur's
Lathe by L.H Sparey, to learn how to operate the lathe.

My lathe does not have a compound tool rest. How important is this
rest in lathe work? Can one be fitted on to it lathe? Does anyone
know where I might find a compound rest for the Sennca Falls lathe?
How complicated would it be to do light milling on the machine? I
apologize for all the questions. I have no one I can turn to for
answers.

A good place to look would be the practical machinst board. See:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

and in particular look at the antique sections, there is currently
a thread running there about seneca falls lathes, and one guy g
even owns one like yours, without a compound rest.

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca2.jpg

You could do milling on a machine like that with something like a
palmgren attachment. Very light milling.

Weren't they patternmaker's lathes? I've only seen one, and I thought that's
what it was.

--
Ed Huntress

In article , Ed Huntress says...

Weren't they patternmaker's lathes? I've only seen one, and I thought that's
what it was.

He's missing the *compound* slide. Not the cross slide.

That's like mine, it must have been a budget operation. g

Jim


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"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Ed Huntress says...

Weren't they patternmaker's lathes? I've only seen one, and I thought
that's
what it was.

He's missing the *compound* slide. Not the cross slide.

That's like mine, it must have been a budget operation. g

Yeah, I realize that. I have seen one patternmaker's lathe that was clearly
identified as such, and it was a kind of flimsy engine lathe -- with a
compound. But the Seneca lathe I saw, in a used-machinery warehouse around
30 years ago, was also pretty flimsy. The owner said it was a patternmaker's
lathe but I don't know if he knew for sure.

The name stuck with me because I spent some summers at Lake Senaca in New
York as a kid.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed, This is no flimsy lathe. And, if it is I would hate to try and
move a stout lathe. The bed alone must weight 300 lbs. I had to
dissemble it and drag the five foot bed with the help of a piece of
old outdoor carpet to my pickup. I then lifted one end into the struck
and finely the other and slid it into the truck. It liked to kill me
to get every thing into the truck and out again. I am 6'0" 220 lbs
and, at least up into a few years ago, I could still bench press my
body weight.

Bugs, the scrap yard is an idea. I also check eBay every so often. I
live in South Louisiana and we have a lot of machine shops here because
of the energy industry. The problem is since this lathe is so old; no
one uses any thing like it anymore.

Jim, I will follow your URL. I may also check into getting a new
cross-slide made with "T" slots that will accept a compound slide
and a milling attachment. The cross slide "Vs" are a straight
forward 2 =BD." The treading on the screw looks strange. However, I
am sure a competent machinist could make a nut to match the screw
thread.

Now if I can only get it done for say...under $100. LOL

"jmiguez" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ed, This is no flimsy lathe. And, if it is I would hate to try and
move a stout lathe. The bed alone must weight 300 lbs.
=========

That must be a different model then. The one I saw had a long bed and it was
a pretty skinny casting.

The other patternmaker's lathe I know of had a similar base casting.

--
Ed Huntress

If I could and knew how, I could post a couple of pics. However,
looking at the pictures Jim Rozen has posted of his lathe. They look
to be twins.

John

In article .com, jmiguez
says...

Jim, I will follow your URL. I may also check into getting a new
cross-slide made with "T" slots that will accept a compound slide
and a milling attachment. The cross slide "Vs" are a straight
forward 2 =BD." The treading on the screw looks strange.

Ha ha. If your machine is close to mine, you might
be suprised at those lead screw threads.

Mine are double square. That's a real oddball.

There are two starts on the threads, 180 degrees apart.

Jim


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In article .com,
jmiguez wrote:
If I could and knew how, I could post a couple of pics.

First -- *don't* post them to the newsgroup. While it is
technically possible, it is a "no-no" for discussion newsgroups (any
newsgroups without "binaries" in the newsgroup name).

If you don't have your own web space with your account, or don't
know how to use it, then visit the following URL:

http://www.metalworking.com/

and read up on the "dropbox". You submit the photos by e-mail (assuming
that you either have a digital camera, or a regular camera and a
scanner to convert the prints into digital images). Be sure to include
a ".txt" file describing what the image(s) is(are), and whatever else
you may wish to say about them.

However,
looking at the pictures Jim Rozen has posted of his lathe. They look
to be twins.

O.K.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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Thanks DoN

If anyone is interested, here are the links for the pictures of my
lathe. If you want a more detailed picture, let me know.

And, thanks again for all your imput.

John

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_2.jpg

In article .com,
jmiguez wrote:
Thanks DoN

You're welcome.

If anyone is interested, here are the links for the pictures of my
lathe. If you want a more detailed picture, let me know.

And, thanks again for all your imput.

John

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_2.jpg

Hmm ... I would like to see a more detailed close-up of the
apron. Don't e-mail it to me, because I'm blocking anything over 30k to
keep the spam out, but another upload to the dropbox would be nice.

Looking at it, I *think* that the four-pointed star wheel is a
friction clutch to power feed. And I think that the power feed is only
longitudinal, as I don't see a control to switch it to the cross-feed.

The thing to the right of the star wheel might control the
half-nuts -- though I would expect a longer lever pointing to the right
for that function.

Looking at the cross-slide and toolpost, it looks as though
there is not sufficient clearance for a compound on this lathe. Any
attempt to add one of sufficient rigidity would lift the toolpost too
high to reach center.

Perhaps others can infer more from the photos.

Thanks & Good Luck,
DoN.

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In article , DoN. Nichols says...

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_2.jpg

Hmm ... I would like to see a more detailed close-up of the
apron. Don't e-mail it to me, because I'm blocking anything over 30k to
keep the spam out, but another upload to the dropbox would be nice.

Looking at it, I *think* that the four-pointed star wheel is a
friction clutch to power feed. And I think that the power feed is only
longitudinal, as I don't see a control to switch it to the cross-feed.

OK, here's one:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca2.jpg

I'm not sure which of these has already been posted, but for the record:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca3.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca4.jpg

and

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca.txt

The four-pointed knob is of course the feed clutch as you suspected,
DoN. The half nuts lever protrudes out of the far right side of
the apron - there is actually a square slot on the side to allow
this.

The control that allows one to switch from longitudinal feed to
crossfeed is a stud that protrudes out the front of the apron,
on the lower right corner which is a sort of wing nut where the
wings are turned as round spheres. (the reversing tumbler
adjustment also sports one of these)

The adjustment rides up and down in a slot in the apron front,
so one loosens the knob, and lifts or drops the wingnut handle,
and then re-tightens it in the correct place. His lathe has
those nuts with a very large diameter base so they pretty
much hide the slot. Also in his photo showing the apron, I
think it's in the "up" position. In my photo it's definitely
"down" and the base of the nut is small, so it would be easy
to see the slot, except the crossfeed handle is partly
obscuring it.

I can only detect *one* sylistic difference between mine and
his, and that is the handle for the tailstock ram clamp.
Mine had seen some rough use, somebody engaged the back gears
while running and stripped off a couple of teeth. THere is
a serviceable repair in place. Also the lead screw support
on the right side was at one time ripped off the machine,
another serviceable repair is in place there. More about that
monenarilly.

I bet those two machines came off the production line quite
near to each other. He hasn't mentioned ths serial number,
but mine is:

2537

Which is stamped between the V-ways on the bed, directly
above the tailstock-end leadscrew bracket.

Back to the leadscrew bracket repair on this machine. It is
apparent after using it briefly that the apron has NO
lockout that prevents one from simultaneously engaging the
longitudinal feed and the half nuts. All modern machines
have this lockout, because if one does engage them both
at the same time, it effectively locks the lead screw,
because the two drive ratios are different.

In my lathes case, somebody did this, and the drive
from the spindle gear ripped the right-hand side bracket
right off the machine at that point. So anyone with
a lathe like this should be fore-warned to avoid accidentally
doing that while the machine is in actual use.

Oh, there's one more dropbox photo, forgot about this one,
a bit blurry:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_1998_retired_files/jim6.jpg

Jim


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In article .com, jmiguez
says...

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_2.jpg

John, you may notice some differences between my lathe
and yours.

1) the brass oil cups on my headstock are purely my own
fabrication. That machine had the exact same short, brass
tubes that stuck up from the bearing shells that yours does,
when I got it.

2) the brass oil dauber in my tailstock is likewise a part
I made up from whole cloth - it is not an original Seneca
Falls part.

3) you probably cannot see it, but my machine had the T-slot
for the tool machined off when I got it. I suspect that somebody
might have crashed it badly and torn the top off the slide.
Maybe they were in process of repairing it, and got sidetracked
for a 'few' years. So I completed the repair by installing two
plates to form the top of the T-slot, each one held down with
three screws into the casting.

Jim


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DoN, Jim is correct. I have just uploaded to the drop box two new
pictures of the apron and carriage. You can see the lever which is use
to change between the longitudinal and cross feed drives. It is
currently in the lower position which is the longitudinal.

Jim - I don't know what the serial number of my lathe is. I have a
vice mounted to a metal plate which is clamped to the "Vs" with two
drilled bars below the "Vs",much like the carriage or tailstock on
the far end. I will have to remove it to see the S/N. I will then
tell you what it is.

My lathe originally came from the Montgomery Machinery Co. on Fulton
Street, NY, NY. There is a brass plate riveted on the bed with their
name. Also, the only place where I see anything about "Star" is on
the leg castings. Each one has a 4' star cast into the middle of the
legs, along with a date of Nov 5 95.

John

In article .com, jmiguez
says...

Jim - I don't know what the serial number of my lathe is. I have a
vice mounted to a metal plate which is clamped to the "Vs" with two
drilled bars below the "Vs",much like the carriage or tailstock on
the far end. I will have to remove it to see the S/N. I will then
tell you what it is.

Yep, it will be stamped right under where your vise is
mounted.

My lathe originally came from the Montgomery Machinery Co. on Fulton
Street, NY, NY. There is a brass plate riveted on the bed with their
name. Also, the only place where I see anything about "Star" is on
the leg castings. Each one has a 4' star cast into the middle of the
legs, along with a date of Nov 5 95.

Look carefully under the headstock, on the front surface of the
bed. Mine was sold by Gavin machinery dealers in NY, the brass
tag on the headstock says this is so.

Jim


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It is # 1781. Jim, if you hadn't told me where to look, I never would
have seen it. It was very light. I had to keep wetting metal with
salvia and move the light around to tell if the third number was an 8
or a 3.

John

In article ,
jim rozen wrote:
In article , DoN. Nichols says...

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/Seneca_Lathe_2.jpg

Hmm ... I would like to see a more detailed close-up of the
apron. Don't e-mail it to me, because I'm blocking anything over 30k to
keep the spam out, but another upload to the dropbox would be nice.

Looking at it, I *think* that the four-pointed star wheel is a
friction clutch to power feed. And I think that the power feed is only
longitudinal, as I don't see a control to switch it to the cross-feed.

OK, here's one:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca2.jpg

O.K. Thanks.

I'm not sure which of these has already been posted, but for the record:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca1.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca3.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca4.jpg

and

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2000_retired_files/Seneca.txt

The four-pointed knob is of course the feed clutch as you suspected,
DoN. The half nuts lever protrudes out of the far right side of
the apron - there is actually a square slot on the side to allow
this.

The control that allows one to switch from longitudinal feed to
crossfeed is a stud that protrudes out the front of the apron,
on the lower right corner which is a sort of wing nut where the
wings are turned as round spheres. (the reversing tumbler
adjustment also sports one of these)

Aha! I was wondering about this. I noticed the lever which
runs the half-nuts and wondered whether that was it. And given that, it
would make the stud some form of control for the power feeds.

The adjustment rides up and down in a slot in the apron front,
so one loosens the knob, and lifts or drops the wingnut handle,
and then re-tightens it in the correct place. His lathe has
those nuts with a very large diameter base so they pretty
much hide the slot. Also in his photo showing the apron, I
think it's in the "up" position. In my photo it's definitely
"down" and the base of the nut is small, so it would be easy
to see the slot, except the crossfeed handle is partly
obscuring it.

Yep! And on his, I think that there is too much paint, so it is
obscuring some of the functionality of the controls.

I can only detect *one* sylistic difference between mine and
his, and that is the handle for the tailstock ram clamp.

Note also that you still have the dabber for the white lead well
to lubricate tailstock centers where they engage the center hole of the
workpiece. His is missing. Perhaps that could now be used to store the
key for the tailstock drill chuck.

Mine had seen some rough use, somebody engaged the back gears
while running and stripped off a couple of teeth. THere is
a serviceable repair in place. Also the lead screw support
on the right side was at one time ripped off the machine,
another serviceable repair is in place there. More about that
monenarilly.

Ouch!

[ ... ]

Back to the leadscrew bracket repair on this machine. It is
apparent after using it briefly that the apron has NO
lockout that prevents one from simultaneously engaging the
longitudinal feed and the half nuts. All modern machines
have this lockout, because if one does engage them both
at the same time, it effectively locks the lead screw,
because the two drive ratios are different.

Hmm ... looking at where the power feed lever is located, I
could see the possibility of a slot in a partial disc rotated by it,
especially if the power feed lever could be placed in a central position
which engages neither power feed. If so, then a projection on the half
nuts themselves, or on the lever could allow it to move only if the
power feed is in a neutral position. And -- if that projection is made
of cast iron along with the half-nuts engagement lever, it might be
fragile enough so a determined pull on the half nuts lever by an
insufficiently trained operator might break that projection off, thus
allowing simultaneous engagement of both feeds.

In my lathes case, somebody did this, and the drive
from the spindle gear ripped the right-hand side bracket
right off the machine at that point. So anyone with
a lathe like this should be fore-warned to avoid accidentally
doing that while the machine is in actual use.

Perhaps he can check to see whether there *is* a lockout for the
half-nuts when the power feeds is engaged on his. Yours may have been
destroyed at the same time that the leadscrew bracket was damaged.

Have you taken the apron apart to study the parts? Look for a
sign of a broken part of the cast iron. If the setup is as I suspect
that it might be, it would also prevent the power feeds from being
engaged when the half-nuts were enaged.


Let's see what I can do with ASCII graphics. As usual, view
with a fixed pitch font like Courier:

_________________
/ |
/ +-----+ _____
/ | __ |
/ +-----+ | |
/ ^ | | |
/ (1) | | |
|(x) v | | |
+------------------------+ | | possible weak point
_________| \_______________________ ^
((x) | |
\____________________________________+ v

The "(x)" are pivot points.

The "(1)" is where the stud for the feed direction control
connects.

The long projection to the right is the half-nuts engagement
lever (without showing how the engagement actually is driven to
keep the ASCII drawing simple. Same for details of the power
feed linkage. :-)

It is shown with both levers in the (supposed) neutral
positions.

If the power feed direction control is either up or down, the
slot is not in position to allow the projection from the
half-nuts lever to drop into it.

If the Half nuts lever is engaged, the slot is not free to be
moved up or down.

Thus an interlock -- until a determined tug on the half-nuts
lever breaks the projection at the indicated weak point.

Oh, there's one more dropbox photo, forgot about this one,
a bit blurry:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_1998_retired_files/jim6.jpg

Still useful.

Check out the possibility that something like what I drew could
have been part of the original design. I find it difficult to imagine
anything but a prototype being made without an interlock, even way back
when -- though it certainly is possible.

Thanks,
DoN.

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In article , DoN. Nichols says...

Perhaps he can check to see whether there *is* a lockout for the
half-nuts when the power feeds is engaged on his. Yours may have been
destroyed at the same time that the leadscrew bracket was damaged.

If there was none from the factory (and I will check mine to see if
there ever was a trace of what you described) on mine, I doubt
there is one on his, as his machine has a lower serial number than
mine.

Jim


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In article .com,
jmiguez wrote:
DoN, Jim is correct. I have just uploaded to the drop box two new
pictures of the apron and carriage. You can see the lever which is use
to change between the longitudinal and cross feed drives. It is
currently in the lower position which is the longitudinal.

O.K. That one shows more clearly the action of the power feed
lever. Is there a middle position for it where it does neither?

Jim - I don't know what the serial number of my lathe is. I have a
vice mounted to a metal plate which is clamped to the "Vs" with two
drilled bars below the "Vs",much like the carriage or tailstock on
the far end. I will have to remove it to see the S/N. I will then
tell you what it is.

Or at least loosen it and slide it a ways.

My lathe originally came from the Montgomery Machinery Co. on Fulton
Street, NY, NY. There is a brass plate riveted on the bed with their
name. Also, the only place where I see anything about "Star" is on
the leg castings. Each one has a 4' star cast into the middle of the
legs, along with a date of Nov 5 95.

Aha! A date. But do you mean a 4" (inch) star? 4' (feet)
sounds rather large.

Thanks,
DoN.
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"It is
apparent after using it briefly that the apron has NO
lockout that prevents one from simultaneously engaging the
longitudinal feed and the half nuts."

DoN, I am not sure what I would look for. I had always used the half
nut lever to engage the carriage meovement. It was only after getting
a couple of old books on lathe operation that I learned I wasn't
susposed to do this. I actually find it easier to use the lever. I
have to think which way to turn the star knob to stop the carriage.
That scares me when it gets close to the chuck or face plate.

John

jmiguez wrote:

"It is
apparent after using it briefly that the apron has NO
lockout that prevents one from simultaneously engaging the
longitudinal feed and the half nuts."

DoN, I am not sure what I would look for. I had always used the half
nut lever to engage the carriage meovement. It was only after getting
a couple of old books on lathe operation that I learned I wasn't
susposed to do this. I actually find it easier to use the lever. I
have to think which way to turn the star knob to stop the carriage.
That scares me when it gets close to the chuck or face plate.

John

I seem to recall that the feed is a slip engage type not a hard set half nut.
If both were engaged (as is on my Sheldon it is possible) the half nut would easily win.

The longitudinal feed as you say is a Friction feed as I know.

Martin

--
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@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

In article .com,
jmiguez wrote:
"It is
apparent after using it briefly that the apron has NO
lockout that prevents one from simultaneously engaging the
longitudinal feed and the half nuts."

DoN, I am not sure what I would look for.

With the lathe stopped, see whether it is possible to engage the
half-nuts lever while the power feed selector is in either of its
extreme positions -- for either cross-feed or longitudinal feed.

And, with the half nuts engaged, it should not be possible to
move the power feed lever into either the cross or longitudinal feed
positions. But that presumes the existence of a neutral central
position, which may not exist.

Another possibility might be some kind of interlock to prevent
tightening the clutch star wheel, even though the direction selector is
in one of the active positions.

I had always used the half
nut lever to engage the carriage meovement. It was only after getting
a couple of old books on lathe operation that I learned I wasn't
susposed to do this. I actually find it easier to use the lever. I
have to think which way to turn the star knob to stop the carriage.
That scares me when it gets close to the chuck or face plate.

I can understand that. Though the star knob can be adjusted to
allow the drive to slip when it hits a stop (say a bed mounted
micrometer adjustable carriage stop). You can even adjust it light
enough so you can stop the handwheel by hand while your other hand backs
off the star wheel. Test this out some distance from anything
important, and at a slow speed (ideally, in back gear) -- since your
star wheel *might* simply engage a dog clutch, with no slip.

Hmm ... as for which way to turn the star knob to stop -- I
presume that it is CCW. Which direction does it turn while feeding
towards the headstock/chuck? It might be that all you need to do is to
grip it under these conditions and it will loosen. And for the
cross-feed (which you can't do with the half-nuts anyway), check which
direction it cross-feeds when the settings are right for longitudinal
feed towards the chuck. Mine will feed out under those conditions, so I
have to reverse the tumbler to face in from the OD.

Better than my Clausing there, since it has direct gears with no
clutch. But the Clausing has a lever which slides and rotates in a slot
like this:

----- longitudinal feed
|
|
+------+ ----- neutral -- no drive.
|
|
------------- cross feed

Note that the slot is wrapped around a cylinder which projects to the
right, so the knob on the lever moves in a circular arc up or down. The
knob and its lever slide left or right in the middle to select cross or
longitudinal feed, and rotates up or down to actually engage them. If
the half nuts are engaged, the power feed lever will not rotate up or
down. If the power feed lever is rotated up or down you cannot engage
the half-nuts.

The benefits from using the power feed a

1) Reduces wear on the precision leadscrew, saving it for just
cutting threads.

2) Allows much slower motion (finer feeds) than the threading
speeds, so you don't have to change gearing as often.
(especially since you don't have a quick-change gearbox.)

3) For your lathe, (but not for mine) the ability to cut up to a
stop without breaking something. (It still won't work with the
half nuts, which have no slip in their drive, but for normal
turning, not threading, it is nice.)


But mostly -- it is a matter of getting to know your machine so
your reactions are right to stop it when getting close. (I would
probably loosen the star knob and feed by hand the last short distance,
just as I do with my lever-controlled feed with no forgiving clutch.)

I suspect that you will find that their is no lockout for the
power-feed/half-nuts combination, so that is another place where you
will have to train yourself to be careful and always do the right thing.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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Thank you DoN for the info. I will look at it and experiment with the
lathe in the morning. As I recall, the half nut lever will drop out
pretty easily. I sometime have to hold it up or it drops and the
carriage stops moving. Maybe I done have something adjusted correctly.
I really haven't done much with it. I wish I had learned more while
my father was still alive. I am more of a woodworker, so that is what
I used it for. I just replaced my Sears wood lathe with this lathe
when I inherited it.

Over the last year I have been designing and building a T-38 flight
simulator cockpit. In 1972 Uncle Sam actually paid me to go to USAF
pilot training. I have loved the T-38 ever since. I am trying to make
the simulator match my 30 year old memory of what it felt like to fly.
My goal is to trailer mount it and bring it to Civil Air Patrol, Boy
Scout meetings and allow young people to get a taste of flying a jet.

In my quest for simulated authenticity I have had to learn how to weld
and do simple machining in order to build the rudder pedals and flight
control stick. They are now done and I have started building the
cockpit itself. That should be easy. The hard part for me will be the
electronics.

Now that I have gotten a taste of machining, I would like to do more.

Jim Rozen what is the spindle threads and taper for your lathe? Also,
what taper do you have on the tail piece? I thought mine was something
like =BD" to the foot. I made a couple of centers on the lathe using
=BD" to the foot taper. They seem to fit. They hold and I have to
drive them out with a piece of =BD tubing I stick into the backend of
the spindle and tap with a ball peen hammer. For the tail stock, I
tried a MT2 it didn't fit. However, my dad use to wrap a piece of
thin copper around the MT2 dead centers and they held. I do the same.
I know admitting this will probably get me burned at the stake for
blasphemy.=20

LOL

John

In article , Martin H. Eastburn
says...

I seem to recall that the feed is a slip engage type not a hard set half nut.
If both were engaged (as is on my Sheldon it is possible) the half nut would
easily win.

Trust me on this, Martin. I know what happens when both are
engaged, and the spindle starts up. It rips the right hand
leadscrew bracket off the machine.

Jim


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In article .com, jmiguez
says...

Jim Rozen what is the spindle threads and taper for your lathe? Also,
what taper do you have on the tail piece? I thought mine was something
like =BD" to the foot.

The spindle is 1.125-12 thread. It's an oddball I know. The
lathe came with a faceplate and a chuck. I've adapted a
four-jaw to fit that spindle.

Both the spindle taper and tailstock taper seem to be Morse number
two. I suspect that at some point in its life, somebody modified
them to be MT-2, because I think those machines came with Jarno
Tapers in them.

I made a couple of centers on the lathe using
=BD" to the foot taper. They seem to fit. They hold and I have to
drive them out with a piece of =BD tubing I stick into the backend of
the spindle and tap with a ball peen hammer. For the tail stock, I
tried a MT2 it didn't fit. However, my dad use to wrap a piece of
thin copper around the MT2 dead centers and they held. I do the same.
I know admitting this will probably get me burned at the stake for
blasphemy.=20

Not at all. I think you can still purchase jarno centers from MSC.
The nice thing about centers like that is that in principle they
have excellent accuracy, and using the copper as a bodge will
degrade that, as well as reduce the rigidty of the setup. Old
lathes like this can still do some nice work.

One thing I have not mentioned about my lathe is that the crossfeed
handle has *no* graduations on it. If yours is the same then
you will be severely hampered by it when it comes time to actually
use it to do any serious work, because you will be unable to
turn diameters to a tolerance of better than about ten thousanths
of an inch.

If your machine was factory-fitted with a graduated dial (a close
friend has one which is a bit more recent, and that is so-equipped)
then you can disregard the comment. However if you don't have
any graduated dial, I would suggest the following approach - if
you want to use the machine for serious work:

1) carefully remove the entire crossfeed screw, handle, and bushing.
The bushing unscrews from the front of the carriage, pad the wrench
so you don't twist up the hex, mine seemed to be almost hand-filed
into a hex, not a standard size really.

2) remove the nut from the cross slide.

3) fabricate a new nut, and obtain another crossfeed screw
and dial assembly from something like a logan or a south bend.

4) you will have to modify the threaded bushing of the newer
assembly to fit into the carriage of your machine I suspect.
This would mean either turning it down and re-threading if
it is larger, or making up an ID/OD threaded bushing if it
is too small.

But this sort of transplant does two things: it allows a
modern graduated dial so your machine can be counted on to
hit diameters within a thousanth or so. And it preserves
the original part which could be re-installed in the machine
to put it back into the condition it was in when you got it.

A former owner of my machine was obviously hampered by the
lack of graduations, because there are a few that are hand-scratched
into the ball handle and the nose of the bushing.

Jim


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LOL Jim it sounds like you know this from experience?

I went out and experimented with my lathe. I tighten the star wheel CW
and got the carriage moving right to left. I slowly moved the half nut
lever upward and watched the half nuts. The nuts would start to close
on the turning screw then I would feel a pressure trying to force them
open. I think I could override this force and keep the nuts closed
manually with the carriage moving but, for obvious reasons I didn't
try.

John

No Jim, I do not have a graduated dial on my cross feed. I had to
laugh when you said, "you will be unable to=AD turn diameters to a
tolerance of better than about ten thousandths of an inch." If I can
do two to three hundreds of an inch tolerance I will be happy.

My lathe's spindle measured 1 3/8" by 10 TPI. I believe that too is
a non-standard thread. I have a 4 jaw chuck and have considered
getting a three jaw. However, I never see any adapter plates with 1
3/8" by 10 threads.

Thanks for the input on changing the screw and adding a graduated dial.
I have been thinking of maybe just having a new cross slide with
"T" slots made. If I do, I will follow your advice.

However, don't look for that to happen soon. I am busy with my T-38
simulator project. I could build and equip a workshop for what this
thing is costing.

John

In article .com, jmiguez
says...

No Jim, I do not have a graduated dial on my cross feed. I had to
laugh when you said, "you will be unable to=AD turn diameters to a
tolerance of better than about ten thousandths of an inch." If I can
do two to three hundreds of an inch tolerance I will be happy.

Oh. I guess you are unaware of the purpose of the funny little
hook-latch that is on the front of your apron, in line with
the hole in the cross slide. Of course not, looking at your
photo I see that you are missing the threaded, graduated
shaft that goes in there, like I am.

You can do some moderatly accurate turning this way. It is
supposed to have threaded rod with two locking thumbnuts on it,
that goes into that hole in the cross slide. The latch flips
over and the thumbnuts bear on the outer surface of it, so
that the depth of the slide can be controlled much the same
way that a drill press depth stop can be used to control the
quill feed. It's a tolerably fine thread and has inch graduations
on the upper, flat surface.

I know this is what goes there because my friend's star lathe
(which *does* have a graduated dial) has one. I've been meaning
to copy it for mine. Now there's another reason to borrow it
and take some photos/measurements.

My lathe's spindle measured 1 3/8" by 10 TPI. I believe that too is
a non-standard thread. I have a 4 jaw chuck and have considered
getting a three jaw. However, I never see any adapter plates with 1
3/8" by 10 threads.

Interesting, the serial numbers are pretty close - and I would
have suspected that they would *increase* the spindle diameter,
not decrease it. You will have to thread backplates single-point
if you want to add to your tooling supply.

Thanks for the input on changing the screw and adding a graduated dial.
I have been thinking of maybe just having a new cross slide with
"T" slots made. If I do, I will follow your advice.

However, don't look for that to happen soon. I am busy with my T-38
simulator project. I could build and equip a workshop for what this
thing is costing.

The nice thing about lathes like that is, you can use them up to
and including their ability. And if you want to improve them,
there's always a chance later for a side project. Of course
this leads to owning more than one lathe, because you need the
second one to work on the first one.... etc.

Jim


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jim rozen wrote:

In article , Martin H. Eastburn
says...


I seem to recall that the feed is a slip engage type not a hard set half nut.
If both were engaged (as is on my Sheldon it is possible) the half nut would
easily win.


Trust me on this, Martin. I know what happens when both are
engaged, and the spindle starts up. It rips the right hand
leadscrew bracket off the machine.

Jim


Then you don't have a friction version or it is set way to hard.
Martin

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NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

In article , Martin H. Eastburn
says...

Trust me on this, Martin. I know what happens when both are
engaged, and the spindle starts up. It rips the right hand
leadscrew bracket off the machine.

Then you don't have a friction version or it is set way to hard.
Martin

Remember, this a very vintage lathe. It has a bunch of features
that might be considered "non-optimal" to the modern lathe
user.

The clutch cannot be "set." It is either tight or loose, and
it doesn't run in an oil bath. The other salient fact here is
that the left-hand side leadscrew bracket is pretty flimsy on this
machine. John's lathe is pretty much the clone of mine, so
his clutch will behave the same under normal operating conditions.

Which means that simultaneous engagement of power feed and half
nuts effectively locks up the leadscrew.

Modern lathes are built to prevent this with a lockout on the
half nuts - they cannot be engaged unless the feed control
is in neutral. My guess is, if that lockout were somehow
defeated in a modern machine, there would be expensive noises
if the same thing were done, in spite of the slip clutch.

Jim


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