On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:55:25 -0700, (Perry Noid)
wrote:

Proof that prayer works! ) I'm sure gald you survived.

Your galled? Gosh, that isn't very nice. You're not up to Mr. May's
callousness, though. G
Sue

good advice that I should follow, too, snipped

Good to hear you're okay... a visit can happen yet then ;-)

Tim

--
"I've got more trophies than Wayne Gretsky and the Pope combined!"
- Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

BIG SNIP, hint hint

Hello, Santa!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:26:10 GMT:

Oh ****! Another american who thinks Africa is a country!

?? On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
?? wrote:
??
?? snip
??
?? Welcome back, Gunner.
??
?? I had no doubt at all.
??
?? Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:
??
?? That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or
?? labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see
?? that it stays there. - George Orwell
??
?? No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
?? term for armed robbery on a large scale.
??
?? Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.
??
?? There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
?? don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.
??
?? Duh.
??
?? :-)
??
?? Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
?? this little quizz:
??
?? It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the
?? countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II,
?? compiled by historian William Blum:
??
?? 1. China 1945-46
?? 2. Korea and China 1950-53
?? 3. Guatemala 1954
?? 4. Indonesia 1958
?? 5. Cuba 1959-1961
?? 6. Guatemala 1960
?? 7. Congo 1964
?? 8. Peru 1965
?? 9. Laos 1964-73
?? 10. Vietnam 1961-73
?? 11. Cambodia 1969-70
?? 12. Guatemala 1967-69
?? 13. Grenada 1983
?? 14. Lebanon 1983, 1984
?? 15. Libya 1986
?? 16. El Salvador 1980s
?? 17. Nicaragua 1980s
?? 18. Iran 1987
?? 19. Panama 1989
?? 20. Iraq 1991-2003
?? 21. Kuwait 1991
?? 22. Somalia 1993
?? 23. Bosnia 1994, 1995
?? 24. Sudan 1998
?? 25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004
?? 26. Yugoslavia 1999
?? 27. Iraq 2002-2004
??
?? Q: In how many of these instances did a democratic government,
?? respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?
??
?? Choose one of the following:
??
?? (a) 0
?? (b) zero
?? (c) none
?? (d) not a one
?? (e) a whole number between -1 and +1
?? (f) zip
?? (g) squat
?? (h) nada
??
?? AC

SCM Ok Everybody.. sing along with the oscar meyer weiner song:

SCM Oh I wish and was liberal like AC..
SCM that is truely what I'd like to be ee eee
SCM And then I take the guns awaayyaa
SCM And give them to the big bad goverments...

SCM How many tyranical goverments maintain control over their citizens
SCM with guns and violent weapons? How many goverments keep the citizens
SCM in check and subject to their laws and judicial systems with guns???


With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:

Hello, The!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:57:54 -0700:

Where'a america to stop these slaughters? Oh yeah I forgot - there's no oil!
and there's too much potential corporate profit in China! Can't hit the
Chinese, who's gonna make Nikes and just about all else you yanks consume.

TI Alan Connor wrote:
??
?? On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 06:00:13 -0700, The Independent
?? wrote:
??
?? Alan Connor wrote:
??
?? On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
?? wrote:
??
?? snip
??
?? Welcome back, Gunner.
??
?? I had no doubt at all.
??
?? Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:
??
?? That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or
?? labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see
?? that it stays there. - George Orwell
??
?? No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
?? term for armed robbery on a large scale.
??
?? Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.
??
?? There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
?? don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.
??
?? Duh.
??
?? :-)
??
?? Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
?? this little quizz:
??
?? It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of
?? the countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War
?? II, compiled by historian William Blum: 1. China 1945-46 2. Korea
?? and China 1950-53 3. Guatemala 1954 4. Indonesia 1958 5. Cuba
?? 1959-1961 6. Guatemala 1960 7. Congo 1964 8. Peru 1965 9. Laos
?? 1964-73 10. Vietnam 1961-73 11. Cambodia 1969-70 12. Guatemala
?? 1967-69 13. Grenada 1983 14. Lebanon 1983, 1984 15. Libya 1986 16.
?? El Salvador 1980s 17. Nicaragua 1980s 18. Iran 1987 19. Panama 1989
?? 20. Iraq 1991-2003 21. Kuwait 1991 22. Somalia 1993 23. Bosnia 1994,
?? 1995 24. Sudan 1998 25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004 26. Yugoslavia
?? 1999 27. Iraq 2002-2004 Q: In how many of these instances did a
?? democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct
?? result? Choose one of the following: (a) 0 (b) zero (c) none (d) not
?? a one (e) a whole number between -1 and +1 (f) zip (g) squat (h)
?? nada
?? (i) who cares?
??
?? AC
??
?? The object is to stomp them so hard the first time that they wont
?? want to mess with us again. Fear is the best motivate, ask a Zebra
?? running from a lion.
??
?? Better yet, visit Israel, where they follow your strategy assidiously.
??
?? Wonderful place: Frightened and angry youths with automatic weapons on
?? every corner and not a safe place in the entire country. They also
?? have a military that is immensely superior to that posessed by their
?? enemies and have killed at least 10 of them for every
?? Israeli casualty. Yet they have no peace and no security. You can talk
?? to zebras if you want. I prefer to observe human behavior and its
?? results and draw my conclusions from those observations. AC

TI The problem is the Israelis haven't got over their own trauma of the
TI holocaust. If they would just slaughter 20 million or so rag heads
TI they wouldn't have any problems.

TI And if you think the world is going to say any thing, think again.
TI Where was the world when Lenin slaughtered the 10 million or so in
TI Russia?
TI Where was the world when Stalin slaughtered 22 million or so in Russia?
TI Where was the world when the turks slaughtered 6 million Armenians?
TI Where was the world when Mao, slaughtered 80 to 90 million in China?
TI *As many as 20,000 to as high as 50,000 are still being killed annually
TI in communist China today.
TI Where was the world when Ho Chi Minh took over S.E. Asia in 1954 and
TI killed another 2 million or so?
TI Where was the world when Castro slaughtered 500,000 out of population
TI of 6 million in Cuba? (and its still going on today)
TI Where was the world when Daniel and Umberto Ortega slaughter 250,000 in
TI Nicaragua? (Until Ronald Reagons contras drove them from power and they
TI had to settle for a democratic election which they couldn't rig and
TI Violetta Chamoro won hands down.
TI Where was the world when Pol Pot Slaughtered 2 million in Cambodia?
TI Where was the world when Idi Amin Slaughtered 1/3 million in Uganda?
TI Where was the world when for the 50 years of rape, cannibalism, and
TI slaughter in the congo that may have killed as many as 15 million?
TI (500,000 were killed between 1998 and 2002 alone)
TI Where was the world when the Huttus slaughtered 2 million Tutsies in
TI Rwanda?
TI Where was the world when Robert Mugabe killed 2 million in Zimbaube
TI and is sill killing 20,000 to 30,000 a year?
TI Where was the world when the Islamic Indonesians were Slaughtering a
TI million Christians in East Timor?
TI Where is the world when the Islamic Sudanese have slaughtered 2 million
TI Christians and enslaved (yes there is modern slavery) in the Sudan?
TI The we have the slaughter of innocent civilians in Lebanon, Bosnia,
TI Chechnia.

TI Hate to break it to you Alan but 99.5% of the slaughter of innocent
TI Civilians in the world since 1900, has had nothing to do with the
TI United States.

TI The Independent of Clackamas County, Oregon

TI "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of
TI speeches and majority decisions ... but by iron and blood."


With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:

"ahlbebuck" wrote in message
...
Hello, The!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:57:54 -0700:

Where'a america to stop these slaughters? Oh yeah I forgot - there's no
oil!
and there's too much potential corporate profit in China! Can't hit the
Chinese, who's gonna make Nikes and just about all else you yanks consume.

Take you long to figure that out?


CC

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:48:09 GMT, Sue wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:29:34 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Richard A. Faust
wrote:

Tim May wrote:

major rant snipped
Actually, probably not, as Gunner will continue to be a drain on the
state and "feral government" (see his own quotes below) for his
remaining years, not to mention the person he now refers to in the
present tense as "my wife," if she's the same one with the heart

Why not let the poor guy alone? Would you want someone picking on you
when you were quite ill? Where is your humanity?

He spent many years criticizing all aspects of socialized medicine, but
now that he is partaking of it (and has been, via the
wife/ex-wife/whatever-she-is) we are supposed to become Hillary's It
Takes a Village People?

So you are accusing him of hypocrisy? I'm not too wild about
hypocrites. Let's see. I'm not good a Google searching, but I'm sure
there are those here (misc.survivalism) who recall your post about how
men need to start monitoring women's eating habits at certain ages.
IIRC it was something like black women at 17, hispanic women at 23 and
white women at 27. Nice talk from someone who looks like this:

http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-2...-dinner-2.html

Looks like someone who gave a damn should have monitored *your* eating
habits at some point. Oh, wait. I doubt anyone gives a damn whether
you die from a heart attack or not except those who stand to inherit.
Hypocrite.
Sue - proudly from Mr. May's killfile
Izzat really Tim May? He sure don't look like no conservative!
'specially that shirt! I got me some shirts like that, and a belly to
match, but not the politics.
Eric R Snow

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 16:33:49 -0700, Eric R Snow
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:48:09 GMT, Sue wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:29:34 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Richard A. Faust
wrote:

Tim May wrote:

major rant snipped
Actually, probably not, as Gunner will continue to be a drain on the
state and "feral government" (see his own quotes below) for his
remaining years, not to mention the person he now refers to in the
present tense as "my wife," if she's the same one with the heart

Why not let the poor guy alone? Would you want someone picking on you
when you were quite ill? Where is your humanity?

He spent many years criticizing all aspects of socialized medicine, but
now that he is partaking of it (and has been, via the
wife/ex-wife/whatever-she-is) we are supposed to become Hillary's It
Takes a Village People?

So you are accusing him of hypocrisy? I'm not too wild about
hypocrites. Let's see. I'm not good a Google searching, but I'm sure
there are those here (misc.survivalism) who recall your post about how
men need to start monitoring women's eating habits at certain ages.
IIRC it was something like black women at 17, hispanic women at 23 and
white women at 27. Nice talk from someone who looks like this:

http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-2...-dinner-2.html

Looks like someone who gave a damn should have monitored *your* eating
habits at some point. Oh, wait. I doubt anyone gives a damn whether
you die from a heart attack or not except those who stand to inherit.
Hypocrite.
Sue - proudly from Mr. May's killfile
Izzat really Tim May?

Yes, as far as I can tell. Here is a labeled picture from the same
website:

http://www.mccullagh.org/image/1/tim.html

He sure don't look like no conservative!

Looks like a nice person. Looks can be deceiving.

'specially that shirt! I got me some shirts like that, and a belly to
match, but not the politics.

Presumably you have some humanity about you. )
Sue
Eric R Snow

Hello, Condor!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:19:10 -0500:

not as long as those starry eyed yankers who think they're God's gift to
democracy!

CC "ahlbebuck" wrote in message
CC ...
?? Hello, The!
?? You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:57:54 -0700:
??
?? Where'a america to stop these slaughters? Oh yeah I forgot - there's
?? no
CC oil!
?? and there's too much potential corporate profit in China! Can't hit
?? the Chinese, who's gonna make Nikes and just about all else you yanks
?? consume.

CC Take you long to figure that out?

CC CC


With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:

Tim May wrote:

In article , Strabo
wrote:


On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:00:38 GMT, Strider
wrote:


As far as the VA goes, I (non vet) consider that to be back pay. It
was the deal when they went into the military and VA heath care is
OWED to Vets by the public.

That's a big 10-4.



Except it's just no so. VA treatment is for service-related injuries or
conditions only.

Those who want a more comprehensive deal need to stay in the service
until the benefits kick in. Just like with all sorts of other pension
plans.

Being in the service for 3 years is not a ticket for free health care
for the rest of your life.

Nor should it be, for obvious reasons.


--Tim May

When I was in the Marine Corps. I was told I had VA hospital benefits
the rest of my life. It is not only for service connected health problems.
Another alternative is to give up your American citizenship, and become
a Mexican citizen. That way you can go to any hospital in the United
States for free. You can collect emergency SS payments of about $800 a
month, food stamps, freebies from local churches and hispanic political
organizations, and you don't even have to have car insurance or pay
taxes! If you can convince a Border Patrolman to shoot you in the foot,
you will be a millionaire.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:47:03 -0700, The Independent
wrote:



Sue wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:55:25 -0700, (Perry Noid)
wrote:

Proof that prayer works! ) I'm sure gald you survived.

Your galled? Gosh, that isn't very nice. You're not up to Mr. May's
callousness, though. G
Sue

good advice that I should follow, too, snipped

Sue

Be nice.

While you like to post your name as Sue_Bitch some times I can tell you
that Dyslexia is a real bitch. (gald being typed for glad is a typical
dyslexic error in {htat} (oops there it is again) that it looks ok when
you type it and may even look ok when you check it but isn't.

Shuckie duckies. I didn't mean to be insulting to anyone with
dyslexia. I'm sorry. I took it for a typo as I'm pretty sure that's
what it was. I make them all the time but try to edit myself, but I'm
kinda fussy that way. When one's posts lack content as mine usually
do one should as least type and spell correctly. Now, if I could just
get punctuation down pat. I'm in the (evidently bad) habit of having
fun (only my own, I guess) with typos when they change the meaning of
a sentence.
Sue - Bitch (

apparently deserved lecture snipped

In article yn4Bc.2754$5t2.334@fed1read01, Mark Allread
wrote:


When I was in the Marine Corps. I was told I had VA hospital benefits
the rest of my life. It is not only for service connected health problems.

Smirk. So go try to get real treatment at a VA hospital, with only a
3-year hitch, and without convincing them that your treatment is for a
service-related condition.

You really thought that your hitch gave you a GI Bill _and_ a lifetime
of free medical care?

I guess this explains a lot about why they're called jarheads.


--Tim May

Sue wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:49:32 -0400, North wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:28:46 GMT, Gunner said:



--Tim May

Indeed. Large tubby asshole.

Gunner



I say that if Tim were to someday drop dead in front of an MS reader,
that reader should Gut, and butcher Tim's body up. Washing the meat
and packing it on ice, to be shipped to LG, in Chicago. Larry can then
set his BBQ grill up in his front yard and have a 'pig roast', he
could then treat all of his 'african american' neighbors to some free
BBQ.

I live pretty close to Mr. May. I don't know if he's important enough
to have his obit in the SF Chronicle, but I keep reading and I keep
hoping. If I ever read anything there believe me I will post the good
news in bold type. Hmmm. Maybe I'll subscribe to the Santa Cruz
Sentinal.
Sue

n.

Now there is certainly a beacon of light in the darkness. tongue shoved in
cheek

mikey

Sue wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:56:33 -0700, Tim May
wrote:



took out some trash


He has no business lecturing us on politics and morality as if he's
some latter-day Heinlein.

As you have never had any business complaining about women eating too
much. That one sure came back to bite you in the ass. Snicker.
Hypocrite. Once again:

http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-2...-dinner-2.html

Sue

That pic is really for sale?! So, who is in the pic? Looks like some of the
"jelly people" to me.

mikey

On 19 Jun 2004 13:49:31 -0700, jim rozen
shouted from the rooftop:

In article , Tim May says...

Here are some direct quotes from Gunner, with dates. As all can plainly
see, some quotes are quite recent. And there are many more quotes just
like these.

Having been there for most of those quotes, it seems to me
they're a bit out of context. But hey, that's OK. You picked
the best time to point all this stuff out, which was right after
the guy's has an angioplasty.

I think your time might be better off spent either pulling the
wings off flys, or incinerating ants with a magnifying glass.

Jim

================================================= =
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
================================================= =

It's always a pleasure when the survivalist whackos show up.

-Carl
"If you don't have enemies, you don't have character"-Paul Newman

Sue wrote:

I live pretty close to Mr. May. I don't know if he's important enough
to have his obit in the SF Chronicle, but I keep reading and I keep
hoping.

We'll see whose obit appears first.

But, I'm glad for you that Gunner has now fully left the
libertarian/freedom orbit and is firmly ensconced in the
welfare/socialist/gimmiecrat orbit.

Perhaps you can help him with the paperwork for Kern County and for
Sacramento to get his ******* son more bennies, that son's girlfriend
more bennies, his ex-wife (or is she his wife again?) more bennies, and
the whole trailer trash set more Section 8/AFDC/WIC.

At least we can never again listen to Gunner expounding his
Heinleinesque cant without bursting into laughter.


--Tim May

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:52:54 +0200, "ahlbebuck"
wrote:

Hello, Condor!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:19:10 -0500:
snip

With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:


Plonk. Damn, Gunner. Your coming back sure flushed a bunch of
wackos. That's the fourth today. I feel like I stepped in a covey of
quail.

Pete Keillor

"Alan Connor" wrote in message
k.net...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner wrote:



snip

Welcome back, Gunner.

I had no doubt at all.

Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
term for armed robbery on a large scale.

Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.

There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.


I suppose Switzerland with every male citizen over the age of 18 issued a
machine gun is a brutal dictatorship without a ballot box in sight also.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

"ahlbebuck" wrote in message
...
Hello, Condor!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:19:10 -0500:

not as long as those starry eyed yankers who think they're God's gift to
democracy!

So you think any superpower, past or present, is/was any different?

Don't kid yourself.

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely."

Wasn't a "Yanker" who said that...


CC

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:22:30 -0700, Tim May
wrote:


Sue wrote:

I live pretty close to Mr. May. I don't know if he's important enough
to have his obit in the SF Chronicle, but I keep reading and I keep
hoping.

We'll see whose obit appears first.

You subscribe to the Los Banos Enterprise? I'm a tad older than you
and for now I smoke so you will most likely outlive me. However, fat
related illnesses are catching up to smoking related illnesses.


But, I'm glad for you that Gunner has now fully left the
libertarian/freedom orbit and is firmly ensconced in the
welfare/socialist/gimmiecrat orbit.

Perhaps you can help him with the paperwork for Kern County and for
Sacramento to get his ******* son more bennies, that son's girlfriend
more bennies, his ex-wife (or is she his wife again?) more bennies, and
the whole trailer trash set more Section 8/AFDC/WIC.

I'm sure that whatever needs to be done he will see to it on his own.
I have enough clients of my own, thanks.


At least we can never again listen to Gunner expounding his
Heinleinesque cant without bursting into laughter.

Just like you ceased make snide remarks about fat women when your
picture was posted? Snicker. I still laugh about that. Thanks for
giving me the opportunity to resurrect it.
Sue - evidently no longer in the illustrious Mr. May's killfile -
aren't I lucky?

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 13:59:11 -0700, Garlicdude
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:35:10 -0700, Garlicdude
wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


" A bullet in the foot first warning, next the thigh, then a good
chest shot... then between the eyes" Little Gunner

If you draw your weapon the first shot should be between the eyes.

Actually...center of mass. Aim for 2" above the belt buckle and the
followup shots tend to string upwards through the remaining vital
bits.

Gunner


Gunner, Agreed. The point was the one I keep driving home to my wife.
Don't draw your weapon If you don't intend to use it. None of this "one
step closer" stuff, pretty soon the perp has your gun and your toast.


Ayup..the only time a warning shot should be fired, is in the center
of mass. Both legally and for your personal safety.

What you have to do, is consider the following:

1. Is your life of the life of another in immediate danger?
A. Yes. Employ deadly force as needed
B. No. Leave the area NOW.

2. Will the situation escalate into your life being in danger, through
mechanisms beyond your control?
A. Yes.. see A above
B. No. See B above.

3. Immediate danger does not mean having an 50 yr old woman in a wheel
chair across the room threatening you with a dull butter knife.
Immediate danger means exactly that..you have a reasonable cause to
believe, that your life, or the life of another, may be taken or
harmed RIGHT NOW.

If a 250lb PCP crazed nut roll is standing on the other side of the
street cursing you while swinging a baseball bat..he is not an
immediate danger. If he throws that bat at you..the moment it leaves
his hands..you are no longer in direct danger from him and you may not
employ deadly force. If he screams, and starts running at
you..indeed, you are in danger and you may employ deadly force. If its
our 50 yr old granny in her wheel chair charging at you with her dull
butter knife, ..you are not in immediate danger.

The perp must have the means and ability to seriously harm you..and to
do so immediately before he can be considered an immediate danger.

If you see a fellow pouring gasoline on the side of a home, and is
ready to strike a match..he may well be considered an immediate danger
and you may indeed use deadly force. In many places, even after he
has started that fire and is trying to flee..an arsonist (and a select
small group of others) may be stopped with deadly force, as the law
may consider him a threat to the community as a whole) (serial
murders, child rapists, etc are also on this list).


If you are in a Bad Situation ©..
Draw an imaginary bubble around yourself. Make it bigger or smaller
as your gut feeling determines it to be. Anyone crossing into that
bubble should be considered an immediate threat to your life. Anyone
outside that bubble is to be considered a possible threat to your
life.
As soon as that line is crossed...use deady force to stop the danger
to you or another.

Something to consider, that is taught to cops and those who may be in
harms way is the Tuller Drill. Keep your rubber gun in your holster,
and have a gent with a rubber knife stand 21 feet away. On the knife
mans inititive, he runs at you with his rubber knife and tries to
stab/cut/kill you. ( I like to use permanant Magic Marker as the
knife).

99% of the time, the knife man will reach you before you are able to
shoot him. Its about 65% even if you have the rubber gun in your hand
but not aimed. And in real life, even if you do shoot him, he is
likely to cut you to death even as he is being shot.

A firearm is NEVER to be used to threaten, bluff, argue, demonstrate
your displeasure, etc etc. It only has two purposes in a self defense
situation. Firing the first and second shots.

Warning shots are bad juju. First of all, you dont know where that
bullet is going to wind up, even is you shoot into the air you may hit
someone miles away, and secondly, it demonstrates you are not yet
willing to employ deadly force. Cops never fire warning shots, by
departmental policy, and for those reasons.

If you are in a situation that may be become dangerous, retreat if you
are able. If you are not able to retreat, take cover and make ready.
If the situation escalates, take immediate action to protect yourself
from danger. If this means using deadly force..so be it. Your
opponent put you in this situation, you didnt. If his actions result
in his death or injury, they are on his head, not yours.
His actions are immoral when placing you into danger. Your actions in
removing that danger to yourself, are moral.

Never let anger be your guide. You MUST use the Reasonable Man
concept.
Is it reasonable to you and the community to shoot at this place and
time, under thise conditions?

Gunner


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

"PJ" wrote in news:hl2Bc.14$ek6.9
@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

Richard A. Faust typed:
Tim May wrote:

major rant snipped
Actually, probably not, as Gunner will continue to be a drain
on the state and "feral government" (see his own quotes
below) for his remaining years, not to mention the person he
now refers to in the present tense as "my wife," if she's the
same one with the heart

Why not let the poor guy alone? Would you want someone picking
on you when you were quite ill? Where is your humanity?

Bottom Line? He has absolutely NONE..

PJ



Big Tim is a man of honour , he would never ever hit a man when he is down
..
Its easier to kick him .....

Start taking 1500 mg of Coral calcium daily. Be ritual about
your intake 3 capsules a day. It takes about 1 year to begin
rebuilding your body. The fingernails will be stronger and longer
a good sign that your body is absorbing the calcium.

The secret to getting the calcium to absorb is having
the adrenal system think the body is going after salt when
what we want is the calcium. Start buying no salt or mrs dash.
Low in sodium products.

You will never know that I'm wrong until you try it.

Good luck, good to have you back safe and well
John

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:22:46 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

You mean the Veteran's Administration is responsible for the $400,000
bill he says his wife (or what he sometimes calls his "ex-wife") ran
up?

Nope..she is responsible for that. I only provide a place for her to
live. In return, she keeps my home in somewhat good order and takes
care of my critters. Period. We are still separated in actual fact.
Furthermore, she is disabled for life, unfortunately and is unable to
provide for herself financially. She is considered by the State to be
indigent, and indigent for life. If you don't like the States terms
or criteria..please feel free to change the rules by which she is
subject.
As to my compassion for her condition..deal with it. While I
understand that compassion is an alien word to you..its something that
most humans have.

She never used drugs (though where you got that from, or why you keep
bringing that lie up escapes me).

Quite frankly Lard Ass, you are a tiresome bigot of the first water,
who managed to be in the right time and the right place, where others
with your same abilities were not. So I suggest the occasional
sacrifice to Hermes may be in order on your part.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:09:25 +0200, "ahlbebuck"
wrote:

Hello, The!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:57:54 -0700:

Where'a america to stop these slaughters? Oh yeah I forgot - there's no oil!
and there's too much potential corporate profit in China! Can't hit the
Chinese, who's gonna make Nikes and just about all else you yanks consume.


How much oil did France and England off up in WW1 and WW2? In the
Baltic?

Seems to me, that when you drongos get your asses in a sling, be it by
your own barberous blood lust or via natural disaster..the US seems to
be willing to offer up assistance. When was the last time South Africa
sent rescue workers to a natural disaster in the US? I dont recall
seeing their crews during any earthquake or flood during the last 100
yrs. Perhaps you laddies are getting bad press?

Perhaps you would care to post links to how much money and aid South
Africa gives to the US?

Gunner


TI Alan Connor wrote:
??
?? On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 06:00:13 -0700, The Independent
?? wrote:
??
?? Alan Connor wrote:
??
?? On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
?? wrote:
??
?? snip
??
?? Welcome back, Gunner.
??
?? I had no doubt at all.
??
?? Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:
??
?? That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or
?? labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see
?? that it stays there. - George Orwell
??
?? No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
?? term for armed robbery on a large scale.
??
?? Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.
??
?? There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
?? don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.
??
?? Duh.
??
?? :-)
??
?? Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
?? this little quizz:
??
?? It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of
?? the countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War
?? II, compiled by historian William Blum: 1. China 1945-46 2. Korea
?? and China 1950-53 3. Guatemala 1954 4. Indonesia 1958 5. Cuba
?? 1959-1961 6. Guatemala 1960 7. Congo 1964 8. Peru 1965 9. Laos
?? 1964-73 10. Vietnam 1961-73 11. Cambodia 1969-70 12. Guatemala
?? 1967-69 13. Grenada 1983 14. Lebanon 1983, 1984 15. Libya 1986 16.
?? El Salvador 1980s 17. Nicaragua 1980s 18. Iran 1987 19. Panama 1989
?? 20. Iraq 1991-2003 21. Kuwait 1991 22. Somalia 1993 23. Bosnia 1994,
?? 1995 24. Sudan 1998 25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004 26. Yugoslavia
?? 1999 27. Iraq 2002-2004 Q: In how many of these instances did a
?? democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct
?? result? Choose one of the following: (a) 0 (b) zero (c) none (d) not
?? a one (e) a whole number between -1 and +1 (f) zip (g) squat (h)
?? nada
?? (i) who cares?
??
?? AC
??
?? The object is to stomp them so hard the first time that they wont
?? want to mess with us again. Fear is the best motivate, ask a Zebra
?? running from a lion.
??
?? Better yet, visit Israel, where they follow your strategy assidiously.
??
?? Wonderful place: Frightened and angry youths with automatic weapons on
?? every corner and not a safe place in the entire country. They also
?? have a military that is immensely superior to that posessed by their
?? enemies and have killed at least 10 of them for every
?? Israeli casualty. Yet they have no peace and no security. You can talk
?? to zebras if you want. I prefer to observe human behavior and its
?? results and draw my conclusions from those observations. AC

TI The problem is the Israelis haven't got over their own trauma of the
TI holocaust. If they would just slaughter 20 million or so rag heads
TI they wouldn't have any problems.

TI And if you think the world is going to say any thing, think again.
TI Where was the world when Lenin slaughtered the 10 million or so in
TI Russia?
TI Where was the world when Stalin slaughtered 22 million or so in Russia?
TI Where was the world when the turks slaughtered 6 million Armenians?
TI Where was the world when Mao, slaughtered 80 to 90 million in China?
TI *As many as 20,000 to as high as 50,000 are still being killed annually
TI in communist China today.
TI Where was the world when Ho Chi Minh took over S.E. Asia in 1954 and
TI killed another 2 million or so?
TI Where was the world when Castro slaughtered 500,000 out of population
TI of 6 million in Cuba? (and its still going on today)
TI Where was the world when Daniel and Umberto Ortega slaughter 250,000 in
TI Nicaragua? (Until Ronald Reagons contras drove them from power and they
TI had to settle for a democratic election which they couldn't rig and
TI Violetta Chamoro won hands down.
TI Where was the world when Pol Pot Slaughtered 2 million in Cambodia?
TI Where was the world when Idi Amin Slaughtered 1/3 million in Uganda?
TI Where was the world when for the 50 years of rape, cannibalism, and
TI slaughter in the congo that may have killed as many as 15 million?
TI (500,000 were killed between 1998 and 2002 alone)
TI Where was the world when the Huttus slaughtered 2 million Tutsies in
TI Rwanda?
TI Where was the world when Robert Mugabe killed 2 million in Zimbaube
TI and is sill killing 20,000 to 30,000 a year?
TI Where was the world when the Islamic Indonesians were Slaughtering a
TI million Christians in East Timor?
TI Where is the world when the Islamic Sudanese have slaughtered 2 million
TI Christians and enslaved (yes there is modern slavery) in the Sudan?
TI The we have the slaughter of innocent civilians in Lebanon, Bosnia,
TI Chechnia.

TI Hate to break it to you Alan but 99.5% of the slaughter of innocent
TI Civilians in the world since 1900, has had nothing to do with the
TI United States.

TI The Independent of Clackamas County, Oregon

TI "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of
TI speeches and majority decisions ... but by iron and blood."


With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

"Tim May" wrote in message ...
In article , PJ
wrote:


Between Kerry pushing for nationalized health care, and Bush trying to
coddle the fair weather conservatives like yourselves, we are likely
doomed to have more and bigger government, just as Gunner himself used
to warn about. Hilarious. But depressing.


I believe the richest country on the face of this earth should have free health care
provided for folks that require it, any matter the **** poor income brackets that most of
us earn these days, maybe were not focusing on the right problem.


--Tim May
John

In article , John Scheldroup
wrote:

"Tim May" wrote in message
...
In article , PJ
wrote:


Between Kerry pushing for nationalized health care, and Bush trying to
coddle the fair weather conservatives like yourselves, we are likely
doomed to have more and bigger government, just as Gunner himself used
to warn about. Hilarious. But depressing.


I believe the richest country on the face of this earth should have free
health care
provided for folks that require it, any matter the **** poor income brackets
that most of
us earn these days, maybe were not focusing on the right problem.

You certainly are in the right newsgroups, then!

Maybe Gunner could run as Ralph Nader's running mate?


--Tim May

"Tim May" wrote in message ...
In article , John Scheldroup
wrote:

"Tim May" wrote in message
...
In article , PJ
wrote:


Between Kerry pushing for nationalized health care, and Bush trying to
coddle the fair weather conservatives like yourselves, we are likely
doomed to have more and bigger government, just as Gunner himself used
to warn about. Hilarious. But depressing.


I believe the richest country on the face of this earth should have free
health care
provided for folks that require it, any matter the **** poor income brackets
that most of
us earn these days, maybe were not focusing on the right problem.

You certainly are in the right newsgroups, then!


I voted for Bush in 2k. My concerns now are the draft of young people.
My brother n law is a math professor of two universities in WI and MN.
PhD in particle physics. He has shook the hands with Feynman and Heisenberg
while on lecture at Berkely.

He was born in Iran seems to be all for the the draft and war with Iran.

It was hard for me to understand the reasoning for this weekend while on a
bbq with family, when his own son would likely be the first to be drafted.

He explained his reasons and I disagreed without any argument.

So I am only thankful that we somewhat have a two party system

John

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:17:23 -0700, michael
wrote:

Sue wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:56:33 -0700, Tim May
wrote:



took out some trash


He has no business lecturing us on politics and morality as if he's
some latter-day Heinlein.

As you have never had any business complaining about women eating too
much. That one sure came back to bite you in the ass. Snicker.
Hypocrite. Once again:

http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-2...-dinner-2.html

Sue

That pic is really for sale?! So, who is in the pic? Looks like some of the
"jelly people" to me.

I've no idea if it's for sale. If it is it might make a good dart
board. Or perhaps toilet paper. The pleasure of wiping my ass with
Mr. May's likeness would be worth the mild discomfort from the
stiffness. One of the two people in the picture is the delightful,
warm hearted, humane, caring, generous, kind Mr. May. I'll leave it
to you to figure out which one. Oh, wait. With all of those
adjectives it would be neither. Scrap the adjectives. Jelly
people????
Sue

mikey

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:31:25 -0400, Peter T. Keillor III
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:52:54 +0200, "ahlbebuck"
wrote:

Hello, Condor!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:19:10 -0500:
snip

With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:


Plonk. Damn, Gunner. Your coming back sure flushed a bunch of
wackos. That's the fourth today. I feel like I stepped in a covey of
quail.

Pete Keillor

It reminds me of walking out in the pasture bare footed. And from the
contents of their posts..it ain quail we is stepping on....

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:25:10 -0500, "John Scheldroup"
wrote:


"Tim May" wrote in message ...
In article , John Scheldroup
wrote:

"Tim May" wrote in message
...
In article , PJ
wrote:


Between Kerry pushing for nationalized health care, and Bush trying to
coddle the fair weather conservatives like yourselves, we are likely
doomed to have more and bigger government, just as Gunner himself used
to warn about. Hilarious. But depressing.


I believe the richest country on the face of this earth should have free
health care
provided for folks that require it, any matter the **** poor income brackets
that most of
us earn these days, maybe were not focusing on the right problem.

You certainly are in the right newsgroups, then!


I voted for Bush in 2k. My concerns now are the draft of young people.
My brother n law is a math professor of two universities in WI and MN.
PhD in particle physics. He has shook the hands with Feynman and Heisenberg
while on lecture at Berkely.

Chuckle. Mr. May will most likely reply that he not only shook hands
with those two people but slept with them as well. G
Sue

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 12:44:32 -0500, Jim Levie
wrote:

I've had this done twice. Once in '97 for a partially blocked right illiac
artery that caused my right leg to go numb after heavy exercise and then
much later for the "big one". Believe me, the "C clamp" is a vast
improvement over the old procedure. Back then two-three nurses would take
turns manually applying pressure to the incision. Being "good medical
practitioners" they tend to err on the safe side, which means they do
their level best to try to push your leg down through the basement from
the sixth floor. It took some three hours or so and the only redeeming
value was all the "good drugs". Mercifully I slept through a good bit of
it.

By 2001 (three days before 9/11) the technology had improved
significantly. This time they used a "C clamp" with an inflatable pressure
pad. By raising the pressure in the pad to a bit above blood pressure they
can be sure that the artery stays closed. While not at all comfortable,
its a lot more bearable. (and lots of drugs help...)

Oddly enough..when they went in the second time for the actual
angioplasty..the big high tech heart center used the two large
orderlies for the pressure. The country hospital used the C clamp.
After being badly bruised up from the angiogram the day before..it was
a bit tender. 3 grains of morphine only took the top layer off. I
asked the orderly to back off a smidge..and he didnt. I then TOLD him
to back off a bit..and when he didnt. I recall grabbing him by the
back of the belt and hoisting him off the floor one handed. Pain=
adrenalin..and it really really really really hurt. I ran though my
entire vocabularly of nasty words in 5 languages, causing a very
diverse group of staff to variously bust up laughing, get all puffed
up or blush. My lungs are good and I simply lost control..so they
closed the doors to that wing. I understand that they heard me at the
front lobby upstairs. Probably considered it bad for business ...

Shrug..now my entire right leg has pin point hemmatomas from ankle to
groin. Freckles I never had...lol
He was a big ol boy too..

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 13:59:11 -0700, Garlicdude
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:35:10 -0700, Garlicdude
wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


" A bullet in the foot first warning, next the thigh, then a good
chest shot... then between the eyes" Little Gunner

If you draw your weapon the first shot should be between the eyes.

Actually...center of mass. Aim for 2" above the belt buckle and the
followup shots tend to string upwards through the remaining vital
bits.

Gunner


Gunner, Agreed. The point was the one I keep driving home to my wife.
Don't draw your weapon If you don't intend to use it. None of this "one
step closer" stuff, pretty soon the perp has your gun and your toast.

Ayup..the only time a warning shot should be fired, is in the center
of mass. Both legally and for your personal safety.

What you have to do, is consider the following:

1. Is your life of the life of another in immediate danger?
A. Yes. Employ deadly force as needed
B. No. Leave the area NOW.

2. Will the situation escalate into your life being in danger, through
mechanisms beyond your control?
A. Yes.. see A above
B. No. See B above.




SNIPPED





Never let anger be your guide. You MUST use the Reasonable Man
concept.
Is it reasonable to you and the community to shoot at this place and
time, under thise conditions?

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Good advice.



--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/

Sue wrote:





http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-2...-dinner-2.html

Sue

That pic is really for sale?! So, who is in the pic? Looks like some of the
"jelly people" to me.

I've no idea if it's for sale. If it is it might make a good dart
board. Or perhaps toilet paper. The pleasure of wiping my ass with
Mr. May's likeness would be worth the mild discomfort from the
stiffness. One of the two people in the picture is the delightful,
warm hearted, humane, caring, generous, kind Mr. May. I'll leave it
to you to figure out which one. Oh, wait. With all of those
adjectives it would be neither. Scrap the adjectives. Jelly
people????
Sue

mikey



Soft, flabby, self-annointed intellectuals with delusions of importance and
superior status. Often found wandering about spewing gossip and/or declarations
of how others should be, but having their collective heads in the clouds. Well,
in a darkened place, anyway. Sudden start or stoppage of movement tends to make
them shake like a bowl of jelly. May also remind one of the Pillsbury Doughboy.

mikey

"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good

snipped

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Welcome Back Gunner

Mike

" A bullet in the foot first warning, next the thigh, then a good
chest shot... then between the eyes" Little Gunner

D'ONT fire warning shots!
If the situation is serious enough for a gun, start shooting for effect .
Schon

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:31:25 -0400, Peter T. Keillor III
calmly ranted:

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:52:54 +0200, "ahlbebuck"
wrote:

Hello, Condor!
You wrote on Sat, 19 Jun 2004 18:19:10 -0500:
snip

With best regards, ahlbebuck. E-mail:


Plonk. Damn, Gunner. Your coming back sure flushed a bunch of
wackos. That's the fourth today. I feel like I stepped in a covey of
quail.

Got bird loads?



--
STOP THE SLAUGHTER! || http://diversify.com
Boycott Baby Oil! || Programmed Websites

Phew -
Had my boss go through something less exciting but near the same problem.
He is better in most things than he has been in years.

Gosh - what ever happened to the metal work ? Leaving that for the poor paid type ?

Martin glad to hear.

Gunner wrote:
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

snip :-)


Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 01:19:00 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:22:46 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

You mean the Veteran's Administration is responsible for the $400,000
bill he says his wife (or what he sometimes calls his "ex-wife") ran
up?

Nope..she is responsible for that. I only provide a place for her to
live. In return, she keeps my home in somewhat good order and takes
care of my critters. Period. We are still separated in actual fact.

If you are living together, it would appear that you are living
together.


Furthermore, she is disabled for life, unfortunately and is unable to
provide for herself financially. She is considered by the State to be
indigent, and indigent for life. If you don't like the States terms
or criteria..please feel free to change the rules by which she is
subject.

Sounds like government tit to me.

As to my compassion for her condition..deal with it. While I
understand that compassion is an alien word to you..its something that
most humans have.

Compassion? Sounds like the government tit to me.


She never used drugs (though where you got that from, or why you keep
bringing that lie up escapes me).

Quite frankly Lard Ass, you are a tiresome bigot of the first water,
who managed to be in the right time and the right place, where others
with your same abilities were not. So I suggest the occasional
sacrifice to Hermes may be in order on your part.

Gunner

A psudoLiberterian.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 17:22:30 -0700, Tim May
wrote:


Sue wrote:

I live pretty close to Mr. May. I don't know if he's important enough
to have his obit in the SF Chronicle, but I keep reading and I keep
hoping.

We'll see whose obit appears first.

But, I'm glad for you that Gunner has now fully left the
libertarian/freedom orbit and is firmly ensconced in the
welfare/socialist/gimmiecrat orbit.

On that count, I agree completely. Gunner is more of an avowed NeoCon
than a Libertarian. I'll never understand why he ever called himself
one.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 14:29:34 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

People who pay way too much in taxes are paying to support Gunner, his
wife/ex-wife/whatever, his ******* son and his wife and kid, just so
that Gunner can post 20 times a day about the evils of socialism.

--Tim May

You forgot the trial lawyer tax on medicine, which adds a non-organic
inflation factor over and above the actual cost of providing services.

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:48:09 GMT, Sue wrote:
Nice talk from someone who looks like this:

http://www.mccullagh.org/image/d30-2...-dinner-2.html

WOW, so who paid for the sex change operation ?

I thought Tim was a guy.. and who's that fat guy next to him ??