Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.

I got ready to go to LA Monday morning, and went to bed. At 5:30
am..my chest woke me up. Pepto didnt work. The first nitro did..for
a short time. Then it came back. Worse. The second and third nitro
slowed it down..for a short time..then it came back..really bad.

Now while Im just a simple harmless fuzzball, I do have a high pain
threshhold....and I was rapidly reaching the high end of it. The wife
demanded we head to the hospital in Bakersfield (45 miles away), so I
dropped 3 asprin, another nitro and off we went like a bat out of hell
with her driving.

By this time, I was bent over in the front seat, scared ****less, and
praying hard that this was not a heart attack . I was a bit confused
as I only had about 1/2 of the symptoms of a MI, but it was really
hard to ignore that white hot chunk of 3" diameter CRS that the 500lb
elf was trying to drive into my chest and out my back (and he was
doing a really really good job of it). About half way there..the pain
started to abate a fair amount...but I was still twitching bad..

Getting to the country hospital in Bakersfield, she dragged me into
the ER..and plopped me down and got some help. First thing they did
was give me an EKG. Hummmm no signs of a Heart Attack (MI) though it
was giving wierd readings. Enough that they called a Code and got me
into treatment.

To cut through the bull**** of the next couple very painful and
miserable days, much of which is mercifuly veiled with a drug filled
fog....

My cloresteral was perfect
My blood pressure was in the high normal range
My blood enzemes were showing something was screwed up.
My heart beat never got any higher than 66 beats per minute (more on
this later)
The periodic returns of the pain was stopped by nitro and morphine.
Lots of nitro, and lots of morphine. Ill blow up a **** test for the
next year...G

Damned shame Ive become allergic to Demeral....morphine only works so
so with me..shug

I had a text book worst case example of Unstable Angina.... While
knowing what it is..there isnt much comfort knowing the name of that
500lb elf with the white hot spear in your chest...

They ran a bunch of tests, chest x-rays (nothing wrong showing, other
than a slight possible enlargement of the heart) and Wed they decided
to give me a angiogram. This is where they strip you naked, shave all
the hair off your balls and groin, and hack into your right femoral
artery, then run a teeny wienie hollow tube all the way up into your
chest and inject dye into your heart , all the while watching the
process under a xray sort of machine, all on real time video (and
saved to CD).

Bingo!

My right coronary aorta
http://www.pediheart.org/practitione...y/arteries.htm was 95%
plugged off, another one (cant remember ALL the names) was 50% plugged
off, and 5 more on the left side of my heart were up to 50% plugged
for a grand total of 7 blockages. Keep in mind..that my colesteral
levels were absolutely perfect and all the tests showed the heart
itself was perfect (though beating slowly) and my BP was in the high
normal/low High range.

My blockages were, in effect worse than my wifes blockages. Big
difference..Id managed to avoid a heart attack with the nitro and
asprins and there was no heart damage. (whew.....prayer? Knowing what
to do because Im a survivalist? Damned good luck? Shrug)


An interesting side note..to close the hole in the femorial artery
they made..they clamp it closed and you down to the table with this
big assed C clamp for an hour or so, then clamp your leg down for the
next 10 hours so the artery doesnt blow out and you bleed to death in
a couple minutes in your bed. Its actually better than it
sounds..morphine..lots of morphine....

The next day, Thursday, they moved me to another hospital, one
specializing in this sort of problem and did a ballon cathederization
and installed a stent in the big artery. This will keep the artery
from going bad again. The specialists say the other areas will sort
themselves out if I stay on their pill and eats program and I was
damned lucky that I was in excellent health otherwise and had avoided
the heart attack.

(.200 stent, expanded to .375 at 40psi, if my reading the report
upside down was correct. Stent is a new style, treated with a baked
on anti-plaque chemical that is supposed to prevent any new yuckies
from building up in that area. I got the owners manual and warranty
for that puppy! G)
http://www.taxus-stent.com/

Here is what an angioplasty is all about
http://www.cardiologychannel.com/ang...y/stents.shtml

Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...

The upshot of this whole thing is..I will be ok in a few weeks at
most,, and probably in better shape than in the last couple years or
longer. Ive noticed a distinct tendency over the last couple years to
not be as active as I was before..due to "running out of steam". I
wrote off a lot of this as simply ageing. I also noticed that Id get
wierd feelings now and then from the right center of my chest..kind
of a tickle, over the last couple years..also writing them off to
aging. Big mistake, which fortunately I was lucky to be able to
recover from. The only other problem that Ive got and it may be
genetic (my mom had this later in life) is that my heart never speeds
up much past 60-70 beats per minute. I could be running around the
block, and drop to my knees as the heart is not speeding up to pump
increased blood and O2. Ive noticed this over the last year..and while
I knew this was a problem..was unable to do anything about it.
Priorities....shrug. There is some conjecture that this may have
caused a plague build up due to no big speeding up of the heart and
blood flow..or the other side says it was the result of plague caused
heart damage. Shrug..Docs say it may correct itself in the next few
weeks, or Ill simply have to learn to live with it. I was wondering
why I couldnt boink for hours anymore..thought I was just getting
oldG

Angina or the early stages of a heart attack are hard to distinquish
from "heart burn" for the average person.
Most guys (like myself) tend to be in denial that it could be
something serious. The coroner often times finds a belly full of
PeptoBismo/Tums or other antacids when doin the autopsy of the people
that dont make it to the hospital and are found dead at home. Dead of
being stubborn. I damned well could have been one of them.

Id strongly suggest reading this link for the various warning signs...

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html

As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.

I STRONGLY recommend to anyone over 40, that you get a good heart
health check up now and then. Some of the screenings may be free, or
darned cheap. If this could happen unexpectedly to me..it damned well
could happen to anyone.


Again..many thanks to all of you who expressed concern. Im very
touched and heartened by your best wishes. Even those emailed by
Snibbles .....G

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
  #2   Report Post  
sheerluck holmes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

(snip)

Great to hear you're ok .
(Don't scare us like that again!)
Schon


  #3   Report Post  
Sue
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G


Hell, no. That's what keeps these machining and metal groups
interesting (for me). )
Glad you're back. Take care of yourself!!!
Sue

  #4   Report Post  
Mark Allread
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


I wish you a speedy recovery. Sounds like what happened to me in '99.
Funny thing, I was simply drinking a glass of orange juice when the pain
hit. After the Pepto, my wife recognized it as a heart attack and I
was white and sweaty, lots of pain, etc. She drove me seventeen miles to
a small town hospital, keeping me talking and awake. The hospital had a
a one bed ER and no trauma personnel. The local ER doctor had called
in sick, and it was the second weekend duty that year for the
replacement doctor, who happened to be a young surgeon from Mayo Clinic.
I staggered in like I was stabbed in the gut. I passed out as the nurse
said "40 over 20." This doctor saved my life and my heart, I came back
among the living and got a helicopter ride to a heart hospital where
they put a stent in. I had one clogged artery on the right side,(the
widowmaker) and it had closed. BTW, that morphine is pretty good stuff.
The upside of having the knowledge you now have, is that you probably
won't ever have another heart attack. It takes a few months to get used
to the strange pains of healing inside, and the light headedness from
the medication. Remember to breath deeply, relax and rest, and thank God
when you get the chance.
John

  #5   Report Post  
Strider
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.

I got ready to go to LA Monday morning, and went to bed. At 5:30
am..my chest woke me up. Pepto didnt work. The first nitro did..for
a short time. Then it came back. Worse. The second and third nitro
slowed it down..for a short time..then it came back..really bad.

Now while Im just a simple harmless fuzzball, I do have a high pain
threshhold....and I was rapidly reaching the high end of it. The wife
demanded we head to the hospital in Bakersfield (45 miles away), so I
dropped 3 asprin, another nitro and off we went like a bat out of hell
with her driving.

By this time, I was bent over in the front seat, scared ****less, and
praying hard that this was not a heart attack . I was a bit confused
as I only had about 1/2 of the symptoms of a MI, but it was really
hard to ignore that white hot chunk of 3" diameter CRS that the 500lb
elf was trying to drive into my chest and out my back (and he was
doing a really really good job of it). About half way there..the pain
started to abate a fair amount...but I was still twitching bad..

Getting to the country hospital in Bakersfield, she dragged me into
the ER..and plopped me down and got some help. First thing they did
was give me an EKG. Hummmm no signs of a Heart Attack (MI) though it
was giving wierd readings. Enough that they called a Code and got me
into treatment.

To cut through the bull**** of the next couple very painful and
miserable days, much of which is mercifuly veiled with a drug filled
fog....

My cloresteral was perfect
My blood pressure was in the high normal range
My blood enzemes were showing something was screwed up.
My heart beat never got any higher than 66 beats per minute (more on
this later)
The periodic returns of the pain was stopped by nitro and morphine.
Lots of nitro, and lots of morphine. Ill blow up a **** test for the
next year...G

Damned shame Ive become allergic to Demeral....morphine only works so
so with me..shug

I had a text book worst case example of Unstable Angina.... While
knowing what it is..there isnt much comfort knowing the name of that
500lb elf with the white hot spear in your chest...

They ran a bunch of tests, chest x-rays (nothing wrong showing, other
than a slight possible enlargement of the heart) and Wed they decided
to give me a angiogram. This is where they strip you naked, shave all
the hair off your balls and groin, and hack into your right femoral
artery, then run a teeny wienie hollow tube all the way up into your
chest and inject dye into your heart , all the while watching the
process under a xray sort of machine, all on real time video (and
saved to CD).

Bingo!

My right coronary aorta
http://www.pediheart.org/practitione...y/arteries.htm was 95%
plugged off, another one (cant remember ALL the names) was 50% plugged
off, and 5 more on the left side of my heart were up to 50% plugged
for a grand total of 7 blockages. Keep in mind..that my colesteral
levels were absolutely perfect and all the tests showed the heart
itself was perfect (though beating slowly) and my BP was in the high
normal/low High range.

My blockages were, in effect worse than my wifes blockages. Big
difference..Id managed to avoid a heart attack with the nitro and
asprins and there was no heart damage. (whew.....prayer? Knowing what
to do because Im a survivalist? Damned good luck? Shrug)


An interesting side note..to close the hole in the femorial artery
they made..they clamp it closed and you down to the table with this
big assed C clamp for an hour or so, then clamp your leg down for the
next 10 hours so the artery doesnt blow out and you bleed to death in
a couple minutes in your bed. Its actually better than it
sounds..morphine..lots of morphine....

The next day, Thursday, they moved me to another hospital, one
specializing in this sort of problem and did a ballon cathederization
and installed a stent in the big artery. This will keep the artery
from going bad again. The specialists say the other areas will sort
themselves out if I stay on their pill and eats program and I was
damned lucky that I was in excellent health otherwise and had avoided
the heart attack.

(.200 stent, expanded to .375 at 40psi, if my reading the report
upside down was correct. Stent is a new style, treated with a baked
on anti-plaque chemical that is supposed to prevent any new yuckies
from building up in that area. I got the owners manual and warranty
for that puppy! G)
http://www.taxus-stent.com/

Here is what an angioplasty is all about
http://www.cardiologychannel.com/ang...y/stents.shtml

Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...

The upshot of this whole thing is..I will be ok in a few weeks at
most,, and probably in better shape than in the last couple years or
longer. Ive noticed a distinct tendency over the last couple years to
not be as active as I was before..due to "running out of steam". I
wrote off a lot of this as simply ageing. I also noticed that Id get
wierd feelings now and then from the right center of my chest..kind
of a tickle, over the last couple years..also writing them off to
aging. Big mistake, which fortunately I was lucky to be able to
recover from. The only other problem that Ive got and it may be
genetic (my mom had this later in life) is that my heart never speeds
up much past 60-70 beats per minute. I could be running around the
block, and drop to my knees as the heart is not speeding up to pump
increased blood and O2. Ive noticed this over the last year..and while
I knew this was a problem..was unable to do anything about it.
Priorities....shrug. There is some conjecture that this may have
caused a plague build up due to no big speeding up of the heart and
blood flow..or the other side says it was the result of plague caused
heart damage. Shrug..Docs say it may correct itself in the next few
weeks, or Ill simply have to learn to live with it. I was wondering
why I couldnt boink for hours anymore..thought I was just getting
oldG

Angina or the early stages of a heart attack are hard to distinquish
from "heart burn" for the average person.
Most guys (like myself) tend to be in denial that it could be
something serious. The coroner often times finds a belly full of
PeptoBismo/Tums or other antacids when doin the autopsy of the people
that dont make it to the hospital and are found dead at home. Dead of
being stubborn. I damned well could have been one of them.

Id strongly suggest reading this link for the various warning signs...

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html

As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.

I STRONGLY recommend to anyone over 40, that you get a good heart
health check up now and then. Some of the screenings may be free, or
darned cheap. If this could happen unexpectedly to me..it damned well
could happen to anyone.


Again..many thanks to all of you who expressed concern. Im very
touched and heartened by your best wishes. Even those emailed by
Snibbles .....G

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


I knew that you would ride this one out,

Welcome back.

Strider


  #6   Report Post  
Alan Connor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guns and Democracy (was: Gunner: I'm back)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner wrote:



snip

Welcome back, Gunner.

I had no doubt at all.

Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell



No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
term for armed robbery on a large scale.

Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.

There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.

Duh.

:-)

Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
this little quizz:

It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the
countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II,
compiled by historian William Blum:

1. China 1945-46
2. Korea and China 1950-53
3. Guatemala 1954
4. Indonesia 1958
5. Cuba 1959-1961
6. Guatemala 1960
7. Congo 1964
8. Peru 1965
9. Laos 1964-73
10. Vietnam 1961-73
11. Cambodia 1969-70
12. Guatemala 1967-69
13. Grenada 1983
14. Lebanon 1983, 1984
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvador 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Iran 1987
19. Panama 1989
20. Iraq 1991-2003
21. Kuwait 1991
22. Somalia 1993
23. Bosnia 1994, 1995
24. Sudan 1998
25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004
26. Yugoslavia 1999
27. Iraq 2002-2004

Q: In how many of these instances did a democratic government,
respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Choose one of the following:

(a) 0
(b) zero
(c) none
(d) not a one
(e) a whole number between -1 and +1
(f) zip
(g) squat
(h) nada



AC



  #7   Report Post  
JMartin957
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Gunner:

Fascinating procedure, wasn't it? I remember hearing surgery of that sort
compared to an auto valve job, except that you had to do it with the engine
running.

You'll feel better in a couple of weeks than you have in years. According to
my doctor, there is little chance of any new heart problems due to the drugs
they'll have you on. They did watch the stents pretty carefully for the first
month or year, but the new drug-coated ones are better than what I had.

Don't recall them shaving my balls, though. Is it possible that cute male nurse
just took a liking to you?

Doesn't the VA cover you on this?

John Martin
  #8   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good


snipped

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell



Welcome Back Gunner

Mike

" A bullet in the foot first warning, next the thigh, then a good
chest shot... then between the eyes" Little Gunner
  #9   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guns and Democracy (was: Gunner: I'm back)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:55:52 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner wrote:



snip

Welcome back, Gunner.

I had no doubt at all.

Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell



No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
term for armed robbery on a large scale.

Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.

There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.

Duh.

:-)

Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
this little quizz:

It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the
countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II,
compiled by historian William Blum:

1. China 1945-46
2. Korea and China 1950-53
3. Guatemala 1954
4. Indonesia 1958
5. Cuba 1959-1961
6. Guatemala 1960
7. Congo 1964
8. Peru 1965
9. Laos 1964-73
10. Vietnam 1961-73
11. Cambodia 1969-70
12. Guatemala 1967-69
13. Grenada 1983
14. Lebanon 1983, 1984
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvador 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Iran 1987
19. Panama 1989
20. Iraq 1991-2003
21. Kuwait 1991
22. Somalia 1993
23. Bosnia 1994, 1995
24. Sudan 1998
25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004
26. Yugoslavia 1999
27. Iraq 2002-2004

Q: In how many of these instances did a democratic government,
respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Choose one of the following:

(a) 0
(b) zero
(c) none
(d) not a one
(e) a whole number between -1 and +1
(f) zip
(g) squat
(h) nada



AC


Ok Everybody.. sing along with the oscar meyer weiner song:


Oh I wish and was liberal like AC..
that is truely what I'd like to be ee eee
And then I take the guns awaayyaa
And give them to the big bad goverments...


How many tyranical goverments maintain control over their citizens
with guns and violent weapons? How many goverments keep the citizens
in check and subject to their laws and judicial systems with guns???



1. China
2. Korea
3. Guatemala
4. Indonesia
5. Cuba
6. Guatemala
7. Congo
8. Peru
9. Laos
10. Vietnam
11. Cambodia
12. Guatemala
13. Grenada
14. Lebanon
15. Libya
16. El Salvador
17. Nicaragua
18. Iran
19. Panama
20. Iraq
21. Kuwait
22. Somalia
23. Bosnia
24. Sudan
25. Afghanistan
26. Yugoslavia
27. Iraq
28 USSR
29 Africa
30 USA
31 Canada
32 Mexica
33 Chile
34 Japan
35 Taiwan
37 Brazil
38 England
39 Israel
40 Palestine
41 Venuzuala
and so on and so...
  #10   Report Post  
John Keeney
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.


Wait a minute, you self prescribed nitro, found it effective and
didn't exceed all legal speed limits on the way to the hospital?
Damn it, Gunner, you are insane.




  #11   Report Post  
Lawrence Glickman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:50:12 -0400, "John Keeney"
wrote:

Wait a minute, you self prescribed nitro, found it effective and
didn't exceed all legal speed limits on the way to the hospital?
Damn it, Gunner, you are insane.


That's why I called him a *lucky* ******* instead of a *smart*
*******. BTW, I made a worse mistake than he did. I waited until I
was having my 2nd heart attack before I waltzed into the hospital to
complain about an ache in my chest and crippled-up arm.

Lg

  #12   Report Post  
Sven
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"
Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Glad to see you back. Best wishes.
Steve


  #13   Report Post  
George
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Welcome back Gunner. You got real lucky sir!!

--George

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.

I got ready to go to LA Monday morning, and went to bed. At 5:30
am..my chest woke me up. Pepto didnt work. The first nitro did..for
a short time. Then it came back. Worse. The second and third nitro
slowed it down..for a short time..then it came back..really bad.

Now while Im just a simple harmless fuzzball, I do have a high pain
threshhold....and I was rapidly reaching the high end of it. The wife
demanded we head to the hospital in Bakersfield (45 miles away), so I
dropped 3 asprin, another nitro and off we went like a bat out of hell
with her driving.

By this time, I was bent over in the front seat, scared ****less, and
praying hard that this was not a heart attack . I was a bit confused
as I only had about 1/2 of the symptoms of a MI, but it was really
hard to ignore that white hot chunk of 3" diameter CRS that the 500lb
elf was trying to drive into my chest and out my back (and he was
doing a really really good job of it). About half way there..the pain
started to abate a fair amount...but I was still twitching bad..

Getting to the country hospital in Bakersfield, she dragged me into
the ER..and plopped me down and got some help. First thing they did
was give me an EKG. Hummmm no signs of a Heart Attack (MI) though it
was giving wierd readings. Enough that they called a Code and got me
into treatment.

To cut through the bull**** of the next couple very painful and
miserable days, much of which is mercifuly veiled with a drug filled
fog....

My cloresteral was perfect
My blood pressure was in the high normal range
My blood enzemes were showing something was screwed up.
My heart beat never got any higher than 66 beats per minute (more on
this later)
The periodic returns of the pain was stopped by nitro and morphine.
Lots of nitro, and lots of morphine. Ill blow up a **** test for the
next year...G

Damned shame Ive become allergic to Demeral....morphine only works so
so with me..shug

I had a text book worst case example of Unstable Angina.... While
knowing what it is..there isnt much comfort knowing the name of that
500lb elf with the white hot spear in your chest...

They ran a bunch of tests, chest x-rays (nothing wrong showing, other
than a slight possible enlargement of the heart) and Wed they decided
to give me a angiogram. This is where they strip you naked, shave all
the hair off your balls and groin, and hack into your right femoral
artery, then run a teeny wienie hollow tube all the way up into your
chest and inject dye into your heart , all the while watching the
process under a xray sort of machine, all on real time video (and
saved to CD).

Bingo!

My right coronary aorta
http://www.pediheart.org/practitione...y/arteries.htm was 95%
plugged off, another one (cant remember ALL the names) was 50% plugged
off, and 5 more on the left side of my heart were up to 50% plugged
for a grand total of 7 blockages. Keep in mind..that my colesteral
levels were absolutely perfect and all the tests showed the heart
itself was perfect (though beating slowly) and my BP was in the high
normal/low High range.

My blockages were, in effect worse than my wifes blockages. Big
difference..Id managed to avoid a heart attack with the nitro and
asprins and there was no heart damage. (whew.....prayer? Knowing what
to do because Im a survivalist? Damned good luck? Shrug)


An interesting side note..to close the hole in the femorial artery
they made..they clamp it closed and you down to the table with this
big assed C clamp for an hour or so, then clamp your leg down for the
next 10 hours so the artery doesnt blow out and you bleed to death in
a couple minutes in your bed. Its actually better than it
sounds..morphine..lots of morphine....

The next day, Thursday, they moved me to another hospital, one
specializing in this sort of problem and did a ballon cathederization
and installed a stent in the big artery. This will keep the artery
from going bad again. The specialists say the other areas will sort
themselves out if I stay on their pill and eats program and I was
damned lucky that I was in excellent health otherwise and had avoided
the heart attack.

(.200 stent, expanded to .375 at 40psi, if my reading the report
upside down was correct. Stent is a new style, treated with a baked
on anti-plaque chemical that is supposed to prevent any new yuckies
from building up in that area. I got the owners manual and warranty
for that puppy! G)
http://www.taxus-stent.com/

Here is what an angioplasty is all about
http://www.cardiologychannel.com/ang...y/stents.shtml

Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...

The upshot of this whole thing is..I will be ok in a few weeks at
most,, and probably in better shape than in the last couple years or
longer. Ive noticed a distinct tendency over the last couple years to
not be as active as I was before..due to "running out of steam". I
wrote off a lot of this as simply ageing. I also noticed that Id get
wierd feelings now and then from the right center of my chest..kind
of a tickle, over the last couple years..also writing them off to
aging. Big mistake, which fortunately I was lucky to be able to
recover from. The only other problem that Ive got and it may be
genetic (my mom had this later in life) is that my heart never speeds
up much past 60-70 beats per minute. I could be running around the
block, and drop to my knees as the heart is not speeding up to pump
increased blood and O2. Ive noticed this over the last year..and while
I knew this was a problem..was unable to do anything about it.
Priorities....shrug. There is some conjecture that this may have
caused a plague build up due to no big speeding up of the heart and
blood flow..or the other side says it was the result of plague caused
heart damage. Shrug..Docs say it may correct itself in the next few
weeks, or Ill simply have to learn to live with it. I was wondering
why I couldnt boink for hours anymore..thought I was just getting
oldG

Angina or the early stages of a heart attack are hard to distinquish
from "heart burn" for the average person.
Most guys (like myself) tend to be in denial that it could be
something serious. The coroner often times finds a belly full of
PeptoBismo/Tums or other antacids when doin the autopsy of the people
that dont make it to the hospital and are found dead at home. Dead of
being stubborn. I damned well could have been one of them.

Id strongly suggest reading this link for the various warning signs...

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html

As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.

I STRONGLY recommend to anyone over 40, that you get a good heart
health check up now and then. Some of the screenings may be free, or
darned cheap. If this could happen unexpectedly to me..it damned well
could happen to anyone.


Again..many thanks to all of you who expressed concern. Im very
touched and heartened by your best wishes. Even those emailed by
Snibbles .....G

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


  #14   Report Post  
Glenn Ashmore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


Glad to see you back Gunner. You had us worried there. Something
happen to you and I wouldn't have anyone to argue with. :-)

Excelent post BTW. Probably the most informative you have made in
years. Made me start thinking about getting an appointment for an exam.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

  #15   Report Post  
Michael
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back



Gunner wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G



Best to you Gunner!
Michael

--



Michael Gailey
Artistic CNC Mill, Router and Engraver Programming
3D modeling for Product Design and Development
http://www.microsystemsgeorgia.com/toc.htm



  #16   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 04:50:12 -0400, "John Keeney"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.


Wait a minute, you self prescribed nitro, found it effective and
didn't exceed all legal speed limits on the way to the hospital?
Damn it, Gunner, you are insane.


Insane? No. In denial? Yes.

Sigh

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
  #17   Report Post  
Peter T. Keillor III
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

big snip
Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Glad you're back, get well.

Pete Keillor
  #18   Report Post  
Backlash
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Gunner, I'm glad to see you back, and best wishes on a speedy recovery. When
you are back in action again, and somewhat financially stabilized, it might
be time to build that special hoist trailer I described. We're all not
getting any younger.

Get well buddy,
RJ

--
"Have no one say it, and say it to your shame, that all was well here, until
YOU came."





  #19   Report Post  
The Independent
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guns and Democracy (was: Gunner: I'm back)



Alan Connor wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner wrote:



snip

Welcome back, Gunner.

I had no doubt at all.

Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
term for armed robbery on a large scale.

Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.

There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.

Duh.

:-)

Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
this little quizz:

It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the
countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II,
compiled by historian William Blum:

1. China 1945-46
2. Korea and China 1950-53
3. Guatemala 1954
4. Indonesia 1958
5. Cuba 1959-1961
6. Guatemala 1960
7. Congo 1964
8. Peru 1965
9. Laos 1964-73
10. Vietnam 1961-73
11. Cambodia 1969-70
12. Guatemala 1967-69
13. Grenada 1983
14. Lebanon 1983, 1984
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvador 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Iran 1987
19. Panama 1989
20. Iraq 1991-2003
21. Kuwait 1991
22. Somalia 1993
23. Bosnia 1994, 1995
24. Sudan 1998
25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004
26. Yugoslavia 1999
27. Iraq 2002-2004

Q: In how many of these instances did a democratic government,
respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Choose one of the following:

(a) 0
(b) zero
(c) none
(d) not a one
(e) a whole number between -1 and +1
(f) zip
(g) squat
(h) nada

(i) who cares?

AC


The object is to stomp them so hard the first time that they wont want
to mess with us again.

Fear is the best motivate, ask a Zebra running from a lion.

The Independent of Clackamas County, Oregon

"The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of
speeches and majority decisions ... but by iron and blood."

(Otto Von Bismarck, Speech, Sept. 30, 1862.)
  #20   Report Post  
Richard Johnson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

Gunner:

Glad to read that you are OK. Also very glad that you did not receive any
damage from the blockages. You know, after going through the hospital stay
without a cig, the nicotine and withdrawals are now done(or were until you
pick up another cig.) Now all you need to do is deal with the psycological
stuff. That is tough, I have seen it done any number of times. In any
case, take care of yourself. (It is the only body you have.)

Rich




  #21   Report Post  
Myal
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Gunner wrote in
:

**snip**

Good to know your actualy still kicking on .
Just keep on doing that OK ?
  #22   Report Post  
coustanis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G


Welcome home Gunner. What else is there to say.

Live long and prosper.
Welcome home.


  #23   Report Post  
Garlicdude
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


" A bullet in the foot first warning, next the thigh, then a good
chest shot... then between the eyes" Little Gunner


If you draw your weapon the first shot should be between the eyes.
--
Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World
http://www.pulsareng.com/
  #24   Report Post  
Carl Byrns
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
shouted from the rooftop:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

You found out you're human.g

Having had a full-blown heart attack, and angioplasty/stent, I can
tell you what you're next move is- quit smoking. Period.

If you don't, you'll most likely be dead the next time. (It's hard not
to twist the knife here and remind you of all those tobacco industry
supported studies that show smoking is harmless. Think they're still
true?)

It ain't easy, but it beats the alternative.

-Carl
"If you don't have enemies, you don't have character"-Paul Newman
  #25   Report Post  
Jeffrey Schwartz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G


Welcome home , Big Guy

Glad it turned out OK




  #26   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G


Welcome back, Cot^H^H^HGunner.


A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the


The East Coasters won't know what that low hummerditty feels like,
but Souwester Desert Rats will know that it feels like East Coast
90%. Having moved to a drier region, I noticed a muggy feeling on
Thursday and the gauge read a mere 22%.

And you know that the Armstrong Method isn't supposed to be used
when the temps are in the 90F+ range. You need a pair of watercooled
longjohns fer that, boy.


By this time, I was bent over in the front seat, scared ****less, and
praying hard that this was not a heart attack . I was a bit confused
as I only had about 1/2 of the symptoms of a MI, but it was really
hard to ignore that white hot chunk of 3" diameter CRS that the 500lb
elf was trying to drive into my chest and out my back (and he was
doing a really really good job of it). About half way there..the pain
started to abate a fair amount...but I was still twitching bad..


Ouch! Didja get that elf's name?


chest and inject dye into your heart , all the while watching the
process under a xray sort of machine, all on real time video (and
saved to CD).


Fluoroscope?


My blockages were, in effect worse than my wifes blockages. Big
difference..Id managed to avoid a heart attack with the nitro and
asprins and there was no heart damage. (whew.....prayer? Knowing what
to do because Im a survivalist? Damned good luck? Shrug)


Lucky you had fresh nitro pills handy, too.


An interesting side note..to close the hole in the femorial artery
they made..they clamp it closed and you down to the table with this
big assed C clamp for an hour or so, then clamp your leg down for the
next 10 hours so the artery doesnt blow out and you bleed to death in
a couple minutes in your bed. Its actually better than it
sounds..morphine..lots of morphine....


And familiar tools! (But the grease they use on those things
is prolly $70/g.)


The next day, Thursday, they moved me to another hospital, one
specializing in this sort of problem and did a ballon cathederization
and installed a stent in the big artery. This will keep the artery
from going bad again. The specialists say the other areas will sort
themselves out if I stay on their pill and eats program and I was
damned lucky that I was in excellent health otherwise and had avoided
the heart attack.


Yes, goodonya, mate.


Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...


No, you have never quit smoking before. Quitting is a decision which
you have never made seriously. I hope you can do so now. After all,
who _willingly_ chooses to smell like a dirty ashtray all day, every
day? (LJ, who stopped stinking 16 years ago last Feb.)


The upshot of this whole thing is..I will be ok in a few weeks at
most,, and probably in better shape than in the last couple years or


Most excellent, Gunner. Take care!


I was wondering why I couldnt boink for hours anymore..thought I was
just getting oldG


All together now, guys: Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!


Angina or the early stages of a heart attack are hard to distinquish
from "heart burn" for the average person.
Most guys (like myself) tend to be in denial that it could be
something serious. The coroner often times finds a belly full of
PeptoBismo/Tums or other antacids when doin the autopsy of the people
that dont make it to the hospital and are found dead at home. Dead of
being stubborn. I damned well could have been one of them.


Congrats on your clear head and loss of denial. Oh, and the
wife nagging you to go to the hospital couldn't have hurt much,
either, could it?


Id strongly suggest reading this link for the various warning signs...

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html


Hey, it's even in Spanish, for non-English-speaking Americans.
Were that in R.O. Kalifornia, it'd be in 29 languages. I got
****ed off every time a ballot pamphlet came to me there. sigh


As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.


What'd they nail you for, about $45k?


Again..many thanks to all of you who expressed concern. Im very
touched and heartened by your best wishes. Even those emailed by
Snibbles .....G


Susie Snibbles? Does your wife know? gd&r


Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.


Nah, that's just the memory of a morphine buzz.


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Back on topic: I've been able to get several coats of Perma Blue
on Grandpa's old Winchester. Heating DEFINITELY speeds things up,
and I'm surprised at how quickly it warms under the distant tip
of a propane torch. I believe I'll have to deal with the deep
muzzle end rust at another time. How deep does it have to go to
make the rifle (.22) unsafe? I think it's about 1/16" for about
4" along one side, where it evidently sat on a damp closet carpet.


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

  #27   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guns and Democracy (was: Gunner: I'm back)

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:55:52 GMT, Alan Connor calmly
ranted:

Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
this little quizz:

It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the
countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II,
compiled by historian William Blum:

1. China 1945-46

-snip-
27. Iraq 2002-2004

Q: In how many of these instances did a democratic government,
respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Choose one of the following:

(a) 0

-snip-
(h) nada


Although I disagree with your anti-gun stance, Blum has a
REALLY good point. We should stop flogging a dead horse in
trying to inflict democrazy on other countries. God/Allah/Buddha
knows it wouldn't work anyway.


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

  #29   Report Post  
Peter Grey
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Welcome back. Glad you enjoyed the morphine. It makes me throw up, as does
Demerol. You get all the fun!

Glad you're OK.

Peter
"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.

I got ready to go to LA Monday morning, and went to bed. At 5:30
am..my chest woke me up. Pepto didnt work. The first nitro did..for
a short time. Then it came back. Worse. The second and third nitro
slowed it down..for a short time..then it came back..really bad.

Now while Im just a simple harmless fuzzball, I do have a high pain
threshhold....and I was rapidly reaching the high end of it. The wife
demanded we head to the hospital in Bakersfield (45 miles away), so I
dropped 3 asprin, another nitro and off we went like a bat out of hell
with her driving.

By this time, I was bent over in the front seat, scared ****less, and
praying hard that this was not a heart attack . I was a bit confused
as I only had about 1/2 of the symptoms of a MI, but it was really
hard to ignore that white hot chunk of 3" diameter CRS that the 500lb
elf was trying to drive into my chest and out my back (and he was
doing a really really good job of it). About half way there..the pain
started to abate a fair amount...but I was still twitching bad..

Getting to the country hospital in Bakersfield, she dragged me into
the ER..and plopped me down and got some help. First thing they did
was give me an EKG. Hummmm no signs of a Heart Attack (MI) though it
was giving wierd readings. Enough that they called a Code and got me
into treatment.

To cut through the bull**** of the next couple very painful and
miserable days, much of which is mercifuly veiled with a drug filled
fog....

My cloresteral was perfect
My blood pressure was in the high normal range
My blood enzemes were showing something was screwed up.
My heart beat never got any higher than 66 beats per minute (more on
this later)
The periodic returns of the pain was stopped by nitro and morphine.
Lots of nitro, and lots of morphine. Ill blow up a **** test for the
next year...G

Damned shame Ive become allergic to Demeral....morphine only works so
so with me..shug

I had a text book worst case example of Unstable Angina.... While
knowing what it is..there isnt much comfort knowing the name of that
500lb elf with the white hot spear in your chest...

They ran a bunch of tests, chest x-rays (nothing wrong showing, other
than a slight possible enlargement of the heart) and Wed they decided
to give me a angiogram. This is where they strip you naked, shave all
the hair off your balls and groin, and hack into your right femoral
artery, then run a teeny wienie hollow tube all the way up into your
chest and inject dye into your heart , all the while watching the
process under a xray sort of machine, all on real time video (and
saved to CD).

Bingo!

My right coronary aorta
http://www.pediheart.org/practitione...y/arteries.htm was 95%
plugged off, another one (cant remember ALL the names) was 50% plugged
off, and 5 more on the left side of my heart were up to 50% plugged
for a grand total of 7 blockages. Keep in mind..that my colesteral
levels were absolutely perfect and all the tests showed the heart
itself was perfect (though beating slowly) and my BP was in the high
normal/low High range.

My blockages were, in effect worse than my wifes blockages. Big
difference..Id managed to avoid a heart attack with the nitro and
asprins and there was no heart damage. (whew.....prayer? Knowing what
to do because Im a survivalist? Damned good luck? Shrug)


An interesting side note..to close the hole in the femorial artery
they made..they clamp it closed and you down to the table with this
big assed C clamp for an hour or so, then clamp your leg down for the
next 10 hours so the artery doesnt blow out and you bleed to death in
a couple minutes in your bed. Its actually better than it
sounds..morphine..lots of morphine....

The next day, Thursday, they moved me to another hospital, one
specializing in this sort of problem and did a ballon cathederization
and installed a stent in the big artery. This will keep the artery
from going bad again. The specialists say the other areas will sort
themselves out if I stay on their pill and eats program and I was
damned lucky that I was in excellent health otherwise and had avoided
the heart attack.

(.200 stent, expanded to .375 at 40psi, if my reading the report
upside down was correct. Stent is a new style, treated with a baked
on anti-plaque chemical that is supposed to prevent any new yuckies
from building up in that area. I got the owners manual and warranty
for that puppy! G)
http://www.taxus-stent.com/

Here is what an angioplasty is all about
http://www.cardiologychannel.com/ang...y/stents.shtml

Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...

The upshot of this whole thing is..I will be ok in a few weeks at
most,, and probably in better shape than in the last couple years or
longer. Ive noticed a distinct tendency over the last couple years to
not be as active as I was before..due to "running out of steam". I
wrote off a lot of this as simply ageing. I also noticed that Id get
wierd feelings now and then from the right center of my chest..kind
of a tickle, over the last couple years..also writing them off to
aging. Big mistake, which fortunately I was lucky to be able to
recover from. The only other problem that Ive got and it may be
genetic (my mom had this later in life) is that my heart never speeds
up much past 60-70 beats per minute. I could be running around the
block, and drop to my knees as the heart is not speeding up to pump
increased blood and O2. Ive noticed this over the last year..and while
I knew this was a problem..was unable to do anything about it.
Priorities....shrug. There is some conjecture that this may have
caused a plague build up due to no big speeding up of the heart and
blood flow..or the other side says it was the result of plague caused
heart damage. Shrug..Docs say it may correct itself in the next few
weeks, or Ill simply have to learn to live with it. I was wondering
why I couldnt boink for hours anymore..thought I was just getting
oldG

Angina or the early stages of a heart attack are hard to distinquish
from "heart burn" for the average person.
Most guys (like myself) tend to be in denial that it could be
something serious. The coroner often times finds a belly full of
PeptoBismo/Tums or other antacids when doin the autopsy of the people
that dont make it to the hospital and are found dead at home. Dead of
being stubborn. I damned well could have been one of them.

Id strongly suggest reading this link for the various warning signs...

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html

As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.

I STRONGLY recommend to anyone over 40, that you get a good heart
health check up now and then. Some of the screenings may be free, or
darned cheap. If this could happen unexpectedly to me..it damned well
could happen to anyone.


Again..many thanks to all of you who expressed concern. Im very
touched and heartened by your best wishes. Even those emailed by
Snibbles .....G

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell



  #30   Report Post  
Tom Gardner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Good on you! I was more concerned for Glen, as his philosophy needs
ocasional...tuning. God knows what would happen to him without an
occasional reality check. Let me know how you do on smoking, I'm next, I
can hardly breathe. I hope you told the docs about your Mountain Dew habit,
that's the real root of the problem.

Oh, by the way, "Where's the metalworking content here?" (somebody had to
say it)
-

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)

Saturday last, I had gone to Bakersfield to pick up an Old Crystal
Lake grinder for a gent, who is coming in from Salt Lake City to pick
up in the next week or two. Getting it home in mid afternoon, (around
105F, 30% humitity) I unloaded it using the Armstrong Method and the
few gadgets I have for moving Stuff around the back yard. This
involved a lot of gut busting grunting and groaning, and I stopped to
take a break. I noticed I was getting what felt like heart burn, and
it was getting a bit hard to ignore..so took a big shot of Pepto
Bismo. The pain went away. So I went back outside and kept on moving
Stuff. Pain came back. Pepto didnt help. So thinking fast, I dropped
a couple of my wife's nitro pills, and the pain went away. Cool. So
thinks me..time to take it easy. And I did, all Sunday..just did minor
bits and things. No problems all day.

I got ready to go to LA Monday morning, and went to bed. At 5:30
am..my chest woke me up. Pepto didnt work. The first nitro did..for
a short time. Then it came back. Worse. The second and third nitro
slowed it down..for a short time..then it came back..really bad.

Now while Im just a simple harmless fuzzball, I do have a high pain
threshhold....and I was rapidly reaching the high end of it. The wife
demanded we head to the hospital in Bakersfield (45 miles away), so I
dropped 3 asprin, another nitro and off we went like a bat out of hell
with her driving.

By this time, I was bent over in the front seat, scared ****less, and
praying hard that this was not a heart attack . I was a bit confused
as I only had about 1/2 of the symptoms of a MI, but it was really
hard to ignore that white hot chunk of 3" diameter CRS that the 500lb
elf was trying to drive into my chest and out my back (and he was
doing a really really good job of it). About half way there..the pain
started to abate a fair amount...but I was still twitching bad..

Getting to the country hospital in Bakersfield, she dragged me into
the ER..and plopped me down and got some help. First thing they did
was give me an EKG. Hummmm no signs of a Heart Attack (MI) though it
was giving wierd readings. Enough that they called a Code and got me
into treatment.

To cut through the bull**** of the next couple very painful and
miserable days, much of which is mercifuly veiled with a drug filled
fog....

My cloresteral was perfect
My blood pressure was in the high normal range
My blood enzemes were showing something was screwed up.
My heart beat never got any higher than 66 beats per minute (more on
this later)
The periodic returns of the pain was stopped by nitro and morphine.
Lots of nitro, and lots of morphine. Ill blow up a **** test for the
next year...G

Damned shame Ive become allergic to Demeral....morphine only works so
so with me..shug

I had a text book worst case example of Unstable Angina.... While
knowing what it is..there isnt much comfort knowing the name of that
500lb elf with the white hot spear in your chest...

They ran a bunch of tests, chest x-rays (nothing wrong showing, other
than a slight possible enlargement of the heart) and Wed they decided
to give me a angiogram. This is where they strip you naked, shave all
the hair off your balls and groin, and hack into your right femoral
artery, then run a teeny wienie hollow tube all the way up into your
chest and inject dye into your heart , all the while watching the
process under a xray sort of machine, all on real time video (and
saved to CD).

Bingo!

My right coronary aorta
http://www.pediheart.org/practitione...y/arteries.htm was 95%
plugged off, another one (cant remember ALL the names) was 50% plugged
off, and 5 more on the left side of my heart were up to 50% plugged
for a grand total of 7 blockages. Keep in mind..that my colesteral
levels were absolutely perfect and all the tests showed the heart
itself was perfect (though beating slowly) and my BP was in the high
normal/low High range.

My blockages were, in effect worse than my wifes blockages. Big
difference..Id managed to avoid a heart attack with the nitro and
asprins and there was no heart damage. (whew.....prayer? Knowing what
to do because Im a survivalist? Damned good luck? Shrug)


An interesting side note..to close the hole in the femorial artery
they made..they clamp it closed and you down to the table with this
big assed C clamp for an hour or so, then clamp your leg down for the
next 10 hours so the artery doesnt blow out and you bleed to death in
a couple minutes in your bed. Its actually better than it
sounds..morphine..lots of morphine....

The next day, Thursday, they moved me to another hospital, one
specializing in this sort of problem and did a ballon cathederization
and installed a stent in the big artery. This will keep the artery
from going bad again. The specialists say the other areas will sort
themselves out if I stay on their pill and eats program and I was
damned lucky that I was in excellent health otherwise and had avoided
the heart attack.

(.200 stent, expanded to .375 at 40psi, if my reading the report
upside down was correct. Stent is a new style, treated with a baked
on anti-plaque chemical that is supposed to prevent any new yuckies
from building up in that area. I got the owners manual and warranty
for that puppy! G)
http://www.taxus-stent.com/

Here is what an angioplasty is all about
http://www.cardiologychannel.com/ang...y/stents.shtml

Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...

The upshot of this whole thing is..I will be ok in a few weeks at
most,, and probably in better shape than in the last couple years or
longer. Ive noticed a distinct tendency over the last couple years to
not be as active as I was before..due to "running out of steam". I
wrote off a lot of this as simply ageing. I also noticed that Id get
wierd feelings now and then from the right center of my chest..kind
of a tickle, over the last couple years..also writing them off to
aging. Big mistake, which fortunately I was lucky to be able to
recover from. The only other problem that Ive got and it may be
genetic (my mom had this later in life) is that my heart never speeds
up much past 60-70 beats per minute. I could be running around the
block, and drop to my knees as the heart is not speeding up to pump
increased blood and O2. Ive noticed this over the last year..and while
I knew this was a problem..was unable to do anything about it.
Priorities....shrug. There is some conjecture that this may have
caused a plague build up due to no big speeding up of the heart and
blood flow..or the other side says it was the result of plague caused
heart damage. Shrug..Docs say it may correct itself in the next few
weeks, or Ill simply have to learn to live with it. I was wondering
why I couldnt boink for hours anymore..thought I was just getting
oldG

Angina or the early stages of a heart attack are hard to distinquish
from "heart burn" for the average person.
Most guys (like myself) tend to be in denial that it could be
something serious. The coroner often times finds a belly full of
PeptoBismo/Tums or other antacids when doin the autopsy of the people
that dont make it to the hospital and are found dead at home. Dead of
being stubborn. I damned well could have been one of them.

Id strongly suggest reading this link for the various warning signs...

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/guides/9/main.html

As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.

I STRONGLY recommend to anyone over 40, that you get a good heart
health check up now and then. Some of the screenings may be free, or
darned cheap. If this could happen unexpectedly to me..it damned well
could happen to anyone.


Again..many thanks to all of you who expressed concern. Im very
touched and heartened by your best wishes. Even those emailed by
Snibbles .....G

Respects and deepest regards to the members of the Usenet communtiy
who have emailed and posted. Im deeply touched and it gives me a
very warm feeling.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell





  #31   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:16:18 GMT, Why calmly ranted:


Oh..and I will be quitting smoking (or trying really hard) as I need
lead a bit more healthy a life style. Shrug..this is gonna be a total
bitch and will likely be harder than undergoing the other stuff..I
have quit 14 times before...sigh...


Gunner, get some Wellbutrin pills to help with quitting smoking. my
Wife & I that smoked for 40 yrs (2 packs a day) quit with the help of
that this March.


2 packs or 100's per day for 15 years and I quit cold turkey after
tapering down to 1/2 pack/day over a month time. Then I got the flu
and decided that was the time to quit. I've never looked back, and
now I can smell a smoker from 50 yards even if they're not smoking.
(No wonder the VC had such a field day with our soldiers in Nam.)


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

  #32   Report Post  
Larry Jaques
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:37:00 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Good on you! I was more concerned for Glen, as his philosophy needs
ocasional...tuning. God knows what would happen to him without an
occasional reality check. Let me know how you do on smoking, I'm next, I
can hardly breathe. I hope you told the docs about your Mountain Dew habit,
that's the real root of the problem.

Oh, by the way, "Where's the metalworking content here?" (somebody had to
say it)


Gunner's shiny new .380 snub-nosed stent, of course.

And PLEASE learn to snip.


--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.

  #33   Report Post  
Jim Stewart
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Gunner wrote:
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

A bit of an explaination of what very unexpectedly happened to "good
ol hard as a rock Gunner". (ouch..sigh)


Great story, glad you're back.

jim
  #34   Report Post  
Jeff Wisnia
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back



Gunner wrote:

For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone.


Glad to hear the good news Gunner.

I hope that one of the beneficial results of that escapade is that it
will be the trigger needed to make you quit smoking. (PLEEZE!)

I'd smoked for 44 years and tried nicotine gum, hypnosis and a "Smokers
Anonymous" group. I always fell off the wagon anywhere from a week to a
month after I quit, just as soon a a stressful event gave me an excuse
to "need one."

The "trigger" for me was this; 10 years I couldn't find my pack of butts
where I'd left it the night before. I learned from a young stoolie that
our then 12 year old daughter had swiped them so she could hide behind
the big rock out back and smoke with her friends.

I never bought another pack and I've been squeeky clean since that day.

You know why they call it "quitting cold turkey" don't you? 'Cause it's
about as pleasent as having a 20 pound frozen Butterball shoved up your ass.

Gunner, You and I can take heart in knowing that it's the good who die
young.

Happy Father's Day,

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

  #35   Report Post  
Tim May
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back


"Gunner" wrote in message
...



As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.



Translation of the "various county and state programs" part:

* Gunner the avowed enemy of socialism is going to use....socialism.

* We non-smokers get to pay for Gunner's heart problems.

* Those of us who saved and invested are taxed to pay for an indigent.


If a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a
conservative who didn't save, smoked, had a heart attack, and expects
the suckers to pay for his condition.

The Ant and the Grasshopper story comes to mind.



--Tim May


  #36   Report Post  
ATP
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

Gunner wrote:
For those of you who emailed or wished me well, many many many thanks.
Im very touched by the concern of everyone. Its good to know Im
either well liked, or for those who dont, they didnt want a thread
opponent to disappear G

Good luck, take it easy, and next time get to the ER a little faster if you
start showing signs of trouble.


  #37   Report Post  
Spehro Pefhany
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 08:59:57 -0700, the renowned Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 15:37:00 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
calmly ranted:

Good on you! I was more concerned for Glen, as his philosophy needs
ocasional...tuning. God knows what would happen to him without an
occasional reality check. Let me know how you do on smoking, I'm next, I
can hardly breathe. I hope you told the docs about your Mountain Dew habit,
that's the real root of the problem.

Oh, by the way, "Where's the metalworking content here?" (somebody had to
say it)


Gunner's shiny new .380 snub-nosed stent, of course.

And PLEASE learn to snip.


316L stainless, according to the manufacturer's data.

Good to hear that all went well, don't forget to enjoy life even more,
G.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
  #38   Report Post  
Glenn Ashmore
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back



Spehro Pefhany wrote:


Good to hear that all went well, don't forget to enjoy life even more,
G.


Don't you think maybe we should keep him away from Michael Moore's new
movie for a few weeks? :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

  #39   Report Post  
The Independent
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guns and Democracy (was: Gunner: I'm back)



Alan Connor wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 06:00:13 -0700, The Independent wrote:




Alan Connor wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 07:06:16 GMT, Gunner wrote:



snip

Welcome back, Gunner.

I had no doubt at all.

Nor do I see any need to coddle a tough son-of-a-bitch like you:


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

No. Rifles are the symbol of brutal conquest, which is just a fancy
term for armed robbery on a large scale.

Ballot boxes are the symbol of democracy.

There are a WHOLE lot of people with a LOT of weapons that
don't have any democracy...Not a ballot box in sight.

Duh.

:-)

Does America's violence around the world create democracy? Try
this little quizz:

It consists of one (1) multiple-choice question. Here's a list of the
countries that the U.S. has bombed since the end of World War II,
compiled by historian William Blum:

1. China 1945-46
2. Korea and China 1950-53
3. Guatemala 1954
4. Indonesia 1958
5. Cuba 1959-1961
6. Guatemala 1960
7. Congo 1964
8. Peru 1965
9. Laos 1964-73
10. Vietnam 1961-73
11. Cambodia 1969-70
12. Guatemala 1967-69
13. Grenada 1983
14. Lebanon 1983, 1984
15. Libya 1986
16. El Salvador 1980s
17. Nicaragua 1980s
18. Iran 1987
19. Panama 1989
20. Iraq 1991-2003
21. Kuwait 1991
22. Somalia 1993
23. Bosnia 1994, 1995
24. Sudan 1998
25. Afghanistan 1998, 2001-2004
26. Yugoslavia 1999
27. Iraq 2002-2004

Q: In how many of these instances did a democratic government,
respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result?

Choose one of the following:

(a) 0
(b) zero
(c) none
(d) not a one
(e) a whole number between -1 and +1
(f) zip
(g) squat
(h) nada

(i) who cares?

AC


The object is to stomp them so hard the first time that they wont want
to mess with us again.

Fear is the best motivate, ask a Zebra running from a lion.


Better yet, visit Israel, where they follow your strategy assidiously.

Wonderful place: Frightened and angry youths with automatic weapons on every
corner and not a safe place in the entire country.

They also have a military that is immensely superior to that posessed
by their enemies and have killed at least 10 of them for every Israeli
casualty.

Yet they have no peace and no security.

You can talk to zebras if you want. I prefer to observe human behavior
and its results and draw my conclusions from those observations.

AC


The problem is the Israelis haven't got over their own trauma of the
holocaust. If they would just slaughter 20 million or so rag heads they
wouldn't have any problems.

And if you think the world is going to say any thing, think again.
Where was the world when Lenin slaughtered the 10 million or so in
Russia?
Where was the world when Stalin slaughtered 22 million or so in Russia?
Where was the world when the turks slaughtered 6 million Armenians?
Where was the world when Mao, slaughtered 80 to 90 million in China?
*As many as 20,000 to as high as 50,000 are still being killed annually
in communist China today.
Where was the world when Ho Chi Minh took over S.E. Asia in 1954 and
killed another 2 million or so?
Where was the world when Castro slaughtered 500,000 out of population of
6 million in Cuba? (and its still going on today)
Where was the world when Daniel and Umberto Ortega slaughter 250,000 in
Nicaragua? (Until Ronald Reagons contras drove them from power and they
had to settle for a democratic election which they couldn't rig and
Violetta Chamoro won hands down.
Where was the world when Pol Pot Slaughtered 2 million in Cambodia?
Where was the world when Idi Amin Slaughtered 1/3 million in Uganda?
Where was the world when for the 50 years of rape, cannibalism, and
slaughter in the congo that may have killed as many as 15 million?
(500,000 were killed between 1998 and 2002 alone)
Where was the world when the Huttus slaughtered 2 million Tutsies in
Rwanda?
Where was the world when Robert Mugabe killed 2 million in Zimbaube and
is sill killing 20,000 to 30,000 a year?
Where was the world when the Islamic Indonesians were Slaughtering a
million Christians in East Timor?
Where is the world when the Islamic Sudanese have slaughtered 2 million
Christians and enslaved (yes there is modern slavery) in the Sudan?
The we have the slaughter of innocent civilians in Lebanon, Bosnia,
Chechnia.

Hate to break it to you Alan but 99.5% of the slaughter of innocent
Civilians in the world since 1900, has had nothing to do with the
United States.

The Independent of Clackamas County, Oregon

"The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of
speeches and majority decisions ... but by iron and blood."

(Otto Von Bismarck, Speech, Sept. 30, 1862.)
  #40   Report Post  
The Independent
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner: I'm back



Gunner wrote:

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:15:55 -0700, Tim May
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
...



As to how Im gonna pay for all this..I dont have a clue..but Ive a
number of options, from various country and state programs to long
term payment plans, to working with the VA. Im starting to explore
the options.

At least..Im alive to deal with the issue..and Im worth far more alive
than dead.



Translation of the "various county and state programs" part:

* Gunner the avowed enemy of socialism is going to use....socialism.


Was there some reason you forgot to mention the other options listed
above? "long term payment plans, to working with the VA."

Or are you simply going to once again, pontificate while blowing smoke
out your ass? Indeed, its your norm.


* We non-smokers get to pay for Gunner's heart problems.


Indeed, you might. Then, you might not. I might vote Democrat. Then,
I might not. Im still exploring the options. If I go the socialism
route, Ill make sure to ask the State to add the cost to your property
taxes and you personally can pay the freight.

* Those of us who saved and invested are taxed to pay for an indigent.


Then those of us who are heavily taxed might get some of our money
back.


If a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a
conservative who didn't save, smoked, had a heart attack, and expects
the suckers to pay for his condition.

The Ant and the Grasshopper story comes to mind.


Tubby asshole with acess to the internet comes to mind...



--Tim May


Indeed. Large tubby asshole.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Personally I don't care how Gunner pays for it, or we pay for it.
Personally I would prefer that some of my tax dollars go to gunner than
to the con man Jesse Jackson.


The Independent of Clackamas County, Oregon

"The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of
speeches and majority decisions ... but by iron and blood."

(Otto Von Bismarck, Speech, Sept. 30, 1862.)
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